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Donger
07-03-2007, 05:09 PM
http://money.cnn.com/2007/07/03/news/companies/ford_chrysler.reut/index.htm?cnn=yes

DETROIT (Reuters) -- The big three American automakers all reported declines for June, as they continued to lose ground to import brands.

No. 1 automaker General Motors (Charts, Fortune 500) saw its overall car and light truck sales plunge 21 percent, while Ford Motor (Charts, Fortune 500) fell 8.1 percent, although it managed to finish just ahead of Japanese rival Toyota Motor (Charts) in sales in its home market.

DaimlerChrysler (Charts) saw the most narrow decline, with sales there down just less than 2 percent sales. But that was a comparison to a particularly difficult month in 2006 for its Chrysler Group unit. Analysts had been looking for a solid 10 percent rise from year-ago sales at Chrysler, but instead the unit posted just over a 1 percent drop in sales.

As a group, the parent companies of the traditional Big Three automakers posted a 12.7 percent decline in sales in the month, at the same time that overseas automakers were posting a 12 percent gain.

With most of the automakers reporting results, only two import brands - small Japanese automaker Subaru, and Korean manufacturer Kia - posted a year-over-year decline in sales. Most of the other imports posted double-digit gains.

The traditional American brands captured only 50.2 percent of the U.S. market in June excluding import brands owned by the Big Three's parents, such as GM's Saab, Ford's Volvo and Daimler's Mercedes Benz.

GM blamed its decline on a cutback in fleet sales to daily rental companies, a "soft industry" and lower incentive spending.

GM said it sold 320,668 cars and light trucks in the United States last month.

Toyota, which has overtaken GM as the world's largest automaker, said Tuesday that its U.S. sales rose 10.2 percent in June, selling 245,739 vehicles in the United States for the month. The results include both Toyota and Lexus brands.
Carmakers offered big June discounts

The Japanese automaker said car sales rose 9 percent, driven by big increases in sales of its Camry sedan and the Prius hybrid vehicle. Truck sales rose 11.9 percent, boosted by a big increase in sales of the new Tundra pickup.

Ford, the second-largest U.S. automaker, said it sold 247,599 vehicles in June, compared with 269,404 vehicles in the same month last year.

It said car sales fell 24.6 percent while truck sales rose 2.9 percent.

Results for Ford - which had sought to curb its lower-margin fleet sales to car rental companies - include its import brands and some medium- and heavy-duty pickup trucks.

DaimlerChrysler, the German automaker which is in the process of selling its U.S. unit Chrysler Group, said it sold 202,936 vehicles in June.

Sales at Chrysler Group, which consists of Jeep, Dodge and Chrysler brands slipped to 183,347 vehicles, while sales at the Mercedes-Benz unit fell 6 percent to 19,589 vehicles.

Separately, Chrysler said that it was set to announce a final agreement with Chinese automaker Chery to start having that company build small sub-compact cars there for export to the U.S. and European markets under the Chrysler brand name. While a timing of the Chinese exports here was not expected to be announced, the deal could mark the first time that China is entering the lucrative U.S. auto market.

But the announcement comes at a time of rising concerns in the United States about the safety of a wide range of Chinese products. The announcement is due at 10 a.m. Wednesday in Beijing, or 10 p.m. Tuesday night in Detroit. Top of page

Dave Lane
07-03-2007, 05:25 PM
Reject will be here shortly to correct this grievous error and to report Bush's popularity rates are on the rebound too!

Dave

Bearcat
07-03-2007, 05:33 PM
$10 BILLION on hand!!!!1111

Mr. Kotter
07-03-2007, 09:04 PM
recxjake will be along shortly to inform us what Giuliani intends to do, to reverse this trend. :)

Logical
07-03-2007, 09:11 PM
recxjake will be along shortly to inform us what Giuliani intends to do, to reverse this trend. :)Yup

stevieray
07-03-2007, 09:13 PM
hopefully there will be a big celebration once they go under.

morphius
07-03-2007, 09:17 PM
hopefully there will be a big celebration once they go under.
Either way you can buy vehicles made before I was born, so why does it matter to you? :D

Logical
07-03-2007, 09:19 PM
Either way you can buy vehicles made before I was born, so why does it matter to you? :DROFL

Damn Stevie, morph has a point, you and Dole are set for life no matter what happens with the car makers.

stevieray
07-03-2007, 09:23 PM
Either way you can buy vehicles made before I was born, so why does it matter to you? :D

You could be Grand Marshall.

Logical
07-03-2007, 09:28 PM
You could be Grand Marshall.Hey that is my job.:harumph:

Do I have to report you to Mr. Fax?

morphius
07-03-2007, 09:36 PM
You could be Grand Marshall.
LOL! So far in my life I have bought a GM, Mazda, Ford, and Nissan. Notice that Mazda is now a Ford product, so obviously I'm a horrible American.

Ebolapox
07-03-2007, 09:40 PM
so, it's all of the sudden my job to buy an inferior car, pay more for it, be happy about paying more for it; all of this just to prop up a company that has gotten so fat and happy off of generations of americans who are now pissed that 'dey took uuuuuur jaaawwwwbs'

...hmmm...

stevieray
07-03-2007, 09:47 PM
LOL! So far in my life I have bought a GM, Mazda, Ford, and Nissan. Notice that Mazda is now a Ford product, so obviously I'm a horrible American.

it has nothing to do with being patriotic, it's just sad to watch us take glee in watching them go down.

Mr. Kotter
07-03-2007, 10:01 PM
it has nothing to do with being patriotic, it's just sad to watch us take glee in watching them go down.

Stevie, I don't think ANYONE is taking "glee" in it....so much as adopting an attitude of "they made their bed, they are choosing to lie in it."

I mean, the sheer arrogance of the Big Three for the entire 70s and 80s...of ignoring consumer demands and interests, because apparently they felt they knew what was best---and consumers would damn well buy what THEY decided to crank out.

In the 90s, and so far this century....it HAS improved; but they are STILL behind the imports in many ways, in terms of VALUE, in terms of RELIABILITY, and in terms of RESALE.

I know, the Resale issue is tough to tackle from their end; however, they CAN fix the VALUE and the RELIABILITY issues...but have, instead, have refused to address those issues in serious ways.

The Accord and Camry: head and shoulders above anything Ford or Chevy offer today.

Oddysey and Sienna: can't be touched by Astrovan or Caravan---it's pathetic.

There ARE some classes.... SUVs and Pickup Trucks, where domestic products are competitive (or even better,) but even there....Imports are closing the gap with improved and better value products.

Do we "Buy American" to save arrogant companies and overpaid assembly line workers in Detroit....out of some patriot sense of duty?

I can only speak for myself, but I say...."Uh, sorry. You have to give me real reasons to buy American (value, reliability)...not coercion." :shrug:

Ebolapox
07-03-2007, 10:03 PM
it has nothing to do with being patriotic, it's just sad to watch us take glee in watching them go down.


I'll agree with that. my great grandfather ran the chevy plant in KC years before I was born. there'll always be a part of me that is pro american products/etc...

however, the sad state of affairs GM is going through is the fact that they really don't make the superior products that they used to. we live in a capitalistic society, where he who provides the best for the cheapest prices succeeds nine times out of ten. in its heyday, GM had the market cornered on quality automobiles (unless one wanted to pay drastically more for a european sports car)... however, the only part of the market they have cornered now is overpricing and unreliability

keg in kc
07-03-2007, 10:08 PM
They're victims of their own incompetence. I don't think anybody is feeling any 'glee' over it.

Hell, I like Toyota because I know my truck was made in the USA, regardless of where HQ may be. It's a reality of the global marketplace in the modern world. Even the so-called "american" automakers are parts of global multi-nationals.

cdcox
07-03-2007, 10:12 PM
Our Nissan is in the body shop, so we're driving a Malibu rental for a couple weeks. Let's just say I'm not a fan. It's underpowered and the seat is almost impossible to make comfortable. The head rests block the sight lines. The finishes (upholstry and simulated woodgrain) are 20 years out of date. The steering has too much play. It's just not a very enjoyable car to drive.

shakesthecat
07-03-2007, 10:18 PM
Even the so-called "american" automakers are parts of global multi-nationals.

It's amazing how many "intelligent" people don't realize that.

My boss refuses to acknowledge that many GM trucks are built in Mexico or Canada.

Mr. Kotter
07-03-2007, 10:21 PM
It's amazing how many "intelligent" people don't realize that.

My boss refuses to acknowledge that many GM trucks are built in Mexico or Canada.

"Damn RICE-Burners!!!"


:shake:




:banghead:

keg in kc
07-03-2007, 10:23 PM
It's amazing how many "intelligent" people don't realize that.

My boss refuses to acknowledge that many GM trucks are built in Mexico or Canada.Well, at the rate things are going, in 10 years, those will be part of the US. Or rather we'll all be part of the american union, or whatever they're calling it this week.

morphius
07-03-2007, 10:24 PM
it has nothing to do with being patriotic, it's just sad to watch us take glee in watching them go down.
I'm not taking glee, I find it more disappointing then anything.

Mr. Kotter
07-03-2007, 10:26 PM
Well, at the rate things are going, in 10 years, those will be part of the US. Or rather we'll all be part of the american union, or whatever they're calling it this week.

Hell, with the European Union....AND, given the complexities of solving the immigration issue....why the fugg not??? :shrug:

:hmmm:

keg in kc
07-03-2007, 10:30 PM
Maybe my high school spanish classes will finally pay off when we have two national languages!

shakesthecat
07-03-2007, 10:32 PM
Maybe my high school spanish classes will finally pay off when we have two national languages!

que?

morphius
07-03-2007, 10:42 PM
I wonder what their sales numbers would be like if they were actually building the electric car that they decided was better to collect up and crush.

Of course when you long ago made a business decision that making money on replacement parts instead of on cars... well.

alanm
07-03-2007, 10:45 PM
so, it's all of the sudden my job to buy an inferior car, pay more for it, be happy about paying more for it; all of this just to prop up a company that has gotten so fat and happy off of generations of americans who are now pissed that 'dey took uuuuuur jaaawwwwbs'

...hmmm...
I wonder what all the laid off auto workers in Detroit feel about the UAW these days?

stevieray
07-03-2007, 10:47 PM
Of course when you long ago made a business decision that making money on replacement parts instead of on cars... well.


And if the Japanese control the market, do you think they'll do the exact same thing?

As othets have already alluded to, a big part of our culture is slowly diminishing.

kcfanXIII
07-03-2007, 10:56 PM
i wouldn't say i'm taking glee in the demise of american motor companies, i'm only hopeful that this will force them to become more innovative. what makes the rice burners more appealing to me is their efficiency. something american car companies don't seem too interested in. with 3.00 a gallon for gasoline, americans sure are.

Mr. Kotter
07-03-2007, 11:00 PM
And if the Japanese control the market, do you think they'll do the exact same thing?

As othets have already alluded to, a big part of our culture is slowly diminishing.

I think they'll....LEARN from our Big Three's mistakes; they appear, frankly, smarter than the boys in Detroit. :shake:

keg in kc
07-03-2007, 11:24 PM
Our culture is, traditionally, that we're a conglomeration of everything the world has to offer. America is a sponge, not an island.

Ari Chi3fs
07-03-2007, 11:31 PM
GM should really give everything they have to create THE car... Create a bad ass alternative fuel car... revolutionize some shit, and people will come back.

Also, bring back the Camaro... millions of mullets have no cars to buy now.

Logical
07-03-2007, 11:46 PM
it has nothing to do with being patriotic, it's just sad to watch us take glee in watching them go down.The only glee in it for me is seeing recxjake eat his friggen words. I am so sick of his GM pimpimg I am happy for the negative news. Sad for the real workers though.

Logical
07-03-2007, 11:50 PM
Hell, with the European Union....AND, given the complexities of solving the immigration issue....why the fugg not??? :shrug:

:hmmm:You are catching up. :thumb:

jAZ
07-04-2007, 12:13 AM
I don't think jake will be along. Though he's googling right now.

recxjake
07-04-2007, 12:19 AM
I don't think jake will be along. Though he's googling right now.

Here, I don't care anymore.... they make darn good products these days.... they have to build back conusmer confidence.... in time they will.

Pitt Gorilla
07-04-2007, 12:29 AM
I bought a Chrysler T&C a few months ago. Also, the Crossfire looks cool.

stevieray
07-04-2007, 08:04 AM
Our culture is, traditionally, that we're a conglomeration of everything the world has to offer. America is a sponge, not an island.

ya. we definitely sponged our independence from the world.

morphius
07-04-2007, 08:06 AM
I bought a Chrysler T&C a few months ago. Also, the Crossfire looks cool.
I know a few people that have been really happy with the Town and Country.

SALEEN 209
07-04-2007, 09:46 AM
I think all of you need to think about what will happen to the American economy if GM goes under! Everyones jobs will be suffer not just auto workers. GM is a billion dollor a year industry for the U.S. if it goes down look for really bad things to happen. Mass layoffs in the private sector not just manual labor jobs. So pump up all of your forigen cars I guess you will get good gas milage to the unemployment line!

Simplex3
07-04-2007, 09:55 AM
I think all of you need to think about what will happen to the American economy if GM goes under! Everyones jobs will be suffer not just auto workers. GM is a billion dollor a year industry for the U.S. if it goes down look for really bad things to happen. Mass layoffs in the private sector not just manual labor jobs. So pump up all of your forigen cars I guess you will get good gas milage to the unemployment line!
Oh noes!!!1!1! Another prophecy of doom from a guy on teh intarwebs!!!!11BBQ1!!

Hydrae
07-04-2007, 10:00 AM
They're victims of their own incompetence. I don't think anybody is feeling any 'glee' over it.

Hell, I like Toyota because I know my truck was made in the USA, regardless of where HQ may be. It's a reality of the global marketplace in the modern world. Even the so-called "american" automakers are parts of global multi-nationals.


I have mentioned this before but during a NASCAR race earlier this year they noted that the only model in the race that was built in the US was the Toyota. The Fords are built in Mexico and the Dodges and Chevies are built in Canada.

Simplex3
07-04-2007, 10:02 AM
I'm probably in the minority here, but I'm all for the big three taking it up the ass. They've done a s**t job of running their businesses for decades and it's time to pay the piper. They've been propped up by tariffs on foreign auto makers, they've gone bankrupt, they've used false patriotism to bully people into buying their products. They're a stain on our society and it's time they take their lumps like men and straighten out their act.

Craash
07-04-2007, 10:41 AM
Something I find interesting is the new Ford spot that is playing on 810 during the royals games. They state "Saying your truck is made is the USA is trendy" . . .but . . ."Fords are the only one who can say that we BUILT America". It seems like a poorly thought out idea on their part. They played on that for years, and now that Toyota might have more claim to that than they do, the trot out the "but we've been here for years" excuse. I'm amazed everytime I hear it.


- Disclaimer

My previous two vehicles were a Olds and a Ford EB SUV.

Currently my wife has a Sienna XLS AWD, and I have a Lexus IS350.

BigMeatballDave
07-04-2007, 10:43 AM
I think all of you need to think about what will happen to the American economy if GM goes under! Everyones jobs will be suffer not just auto workers. GM is a billion dollor a year industry for the U.S. if it goes down look for really bad things to happen. Mass layoffs in the private sector not just manual labor jobs. So pump up all of your forigen cars I guess you will get good gas milage to the unemployment line!GM isnt going anywhere. Ford and Chrysler are the ones in deep shit.

Deberg_1990
07-04-2007, 10:45 AM
I'm probably in the minority here, but I'm all for the big three taking it up the ass. They've done a s**t job of running their businesses for decades and it's time to pay the piper. They've been propped up by tariffs on foreign auto makers, they've gone bankrupt, they've used false patriotism to bully people into buying their products. They're a stain on our society and it's time they take their lumps like men and straighten out their act.

Well said.

Ebolapox
07-05-2007, 12:00 PM
I wonder what all the laid off auto workers in Detroit feel about the UAW these days?

pretty pissed I'd assume. however, sadly enough, it was the smartest BUSINESS decision GM has made in the last thirty years.

Ebolapox
07-05-2007, 12:02 PM
GM should really give everything they have to create THE car... Create a bad ass alternative fuel car... revolutionize some shit, and people will come back.

Also, bring back the Camaro... millions of mullets have no cars to buy now.

yep. something like the first part of your post would help to bring back GM if they aren't too far gone.

penchief
07-05-2007, 01:08 PM
Serves them right for trying to stifle innovation.

Brock
07-05-2007, 01:20 PM
Serves them right for trying to stifle innovation.

Something tells me manufacturing and business aren't things you know anything at all about.

Amnorix
07-05-2007, 01:27 PM
I honestly hope the big 3 turn it around. They are huge engines (no pun intended) within the American economy, not only directly generating and maintaining massive numbers of jobs, but indirectly as well thrhough the many, MANY suppliers that they have.

If all 3 went down for the count, it would be very, very bad.

That said, their current products suck, and they need to turn that around or else they will get the "reward" that they are striving for.

I could also wish that the unions would be more cooperative in their troubled times, but it would be a mistake to lay all the Big 3's problems at the union's feet.

HemiEd
07-05-2007, 01:27 PM
Our Nissan is in the body shop, so we're driving a Malibu rental for a couple weeks. Let's just say I'm not a fan. It's underpowered and the seat is almost impossible to make comfortable. The head rests block the sight lines. The finishes (upholstry and simulated woodgrain) are 20 years out of date. The steering has too much play. It's just not a very enjoyable car to drive.


Is your Nissan in the same catagory/price as the Malibu? I am not sure my back would take driving any low end car accross town. My impression of the Malibu is that it is targeted for the rental car market as a "mid-size."

Amnorix
07-05-2007, 01:31 PM
The only glee in it for me is seeing recxjake eat his friggen words. I am so sick of his GM pimpimg I am happy for the negative news. Sad for the real workers though.
This is like being happy the Chiefs lose because you don't like one of their reporters. A little perspective might be good here. :)

morphius
07-05-2007, 01:36 PM
Is your Nissan in the same catagory/price as the Malibu? I am not sure my back would take driving any low end car accross town. My impression of the Malibu is that it is targeted for the rental car market as a "mid-size."
I don't know, rex said that GM had stopped using their cars for rental companies for some reason or another.

The Malibu is the car right below the Impala in the pecking order. It is very ordinary looking, and somehow they managed to make it smaller and has less power then both the Altima and Camry, which it is supposed to compete with.

cdcox
07-05-2007, 01:39 PM
Is your Nissan in the same catagory/price as the Malibu? I am not sure my back would take driving any low end car accross town. My impression of the Malibu is that it is targeted for the rental car market as a "mid-size."


I have an Altima. I believe they are both considered mid-sizes:

Nissan Altima (2007) MSRP: $17,950 to $28,400
Chevy Malibu (2007) MSRP: $17,215 to $23,915

My Nissan is not at the top of the price range since I have the 2.5 L 4-cyclinder instead of the 3.5L six. Of the differences I listed, only the seat comfort might depend on the options. Both my Nissan and the Malibu have electric seats, so I'm assuming that they are both upgrades.

morphius
07-05-2007, 01:43 PM
I have an Altima. I believe they are both considered mid-sizes:

Nissan Altima (2007) MSRP: $17,950 to $28,400
Chevy Malibu (2007) MSRP: $17,215 to $23,915

My Nissan is not at the top of the price range since I have the 2.5 L 4-cyclinder instead of the 3.5L six. Of the differences I listed, only the seat comfort might depend on the options. Both my Nissan and the Malibu have electric seats, so I'm assuming that they are both upgrades.
Ant the $28,000 version is the SE-R, with 18" Rims, upgraded horse power, sport breaks, leather interior with sport seats and a 6 speed transmission.

Fun as hell to drive.

cdcox
07-05-2007, 01:43 PM
I don't know, rex said that GM had stopped using their cars for rental companies for some reason or another.

The Malibu is the car right below the Impala in the pecking order. It is very ordinary looking, and somehow they managed to make it smaller and has less power then both the Altima and Camry, which it is supposed to compete with.

I have the 2.5 L 175 HP Altima and it has much better zip than the 2.1 L 144 HP Malibu.

HemiEd
07-05-2007, 01:44 PM
I don't know, rex said that GM had stopped using their cars for rental companies for some reason or another.

The Malibu is the car right below the Impala in the pecking order. It is very ordinary looking, and somehow they managed to make it smaller and has less power then both the Altima and Camry, which it is supposed to compete with.

They did stop targeting the rental car market to an extent, recently. But the car was designed 3-5 years ago, maybe longer. The Camrys I have seen recently are bigger than the Impala not to mention the Malibu, and are made to look like a BMW.
Even the Japanese have about 2 years to market last time I checked, historically most cars are in the 3ish year range. Of course that time is heavily dependent on how much of the car is actually new and how much is a carry over another car from the same platform.

cdcox
07-05-2007, 01:47 PM
Ant the $28,000 version is the SE-R, with 18" Rims, upgraded horse power, sport breaks, leather interior with sport seats and a 6 speed transmission.

Fun as hell to drive.

I can imagine. My base model 2.5 L has decent zip and handling. With an extra 100 HP it would move really well. Of course I was driving a couple of Ford Escorts and a six cylinder F-150 for the 20 years prior to getting the Nissan, so my perspective might be a little tilted.

HemiEd
07-05-2007, 01:53 PM
I have an Altima. I believe they are both considered mid-sizes:

Nissan Altima (2007) MSRP: $17,950 to $28,400
Chevy Malibu (2007) MSRP: $17,215 to $23,915

My Nissan is not at the top of the price range since I have the 2.5 L 4-cyclinder instead of the 3.5L six. Of the differences I listed, only the seat comfort might depend on the options. Both my Nissan and the Malibu have electric seats, so I'm assuming that they are both upgrades.

They are fairly close in all the measurables you mention. 30 hp and .4 litres would make a big difference when compared to the overall displacement % though.
I read quite a bit about the Malibu in industry mags, a few years ago, when this car was about to be introduced. I am fairly confident, that it is well behind the current product plans of GM.
I am sure no GM expert though.
I did see a new Ford crossover the other day, that actually made me stop my car and gawk at it. The driver got quite a kick out of me doing that. I think it was the new "Free" or something like that. Damn that thing was sharp.

*EDit* It was an Edge, not a Free. Close.
http://www.fordvehicles.com/crossovers/edge/?searchid=426441|15932595|80549089

morphius
07-05-2007, 01:54 PM
I have the 2.5 L 175 HP Altima and it has much better zip than the 2.1 L 144 HP Malibu.
Wow! 144 HP? That is painful.

When I test drove the SE-R I had a smile from ear to ear. Sadly there was no way I could afford it, and ended up with just the 3.5 SE, which is still fun.

Mi_chief_fan
07-05-2007, 01:57 PM
I'm proud to own a Toyota AND a GMC. I asked my brother-in-law, a mechanic at a GM dealership, if he were going to buy a new car, what would it be? He said if he were buying a truck, he would go with GMC or Chevy (big surprise, coming from someone working at a GM dealership), but he said if he were buying a new car, he'd ONLY buy a Toyota or a Honda. So, I kept my GMC 4X4 pickup for those beautiful Michigan winters, but I bought a 2007 Toyota Yaris for less than $13,000, with a 100,000 mile warranty.

Both work well for what I use them for: the truck for winter time, the car because of 40-45 MPG, and much more power than I expected.

cdcox
07-05-2007, 02:17 PM
A few more random pieces of info:

Twenty-some-odd years ago all "buy American because it's good for the country". The problems with US cars have been well known for 30 years now. Loyalty only goes so far.

I'm still a big fan of my '94 F-150 truck (assembled in Mexico). I'd probably buy Ford or Dodge if I were buying a truck today. I'd have to research it to make a final determination.

The torque coverter for my Nissan was built 20 miles from my house.

HemiEd
07-05-2007, 04:01 PM
http://www.mycarstats.com/auto_Recalls/TOYOTA_Recalls.asp

beavis
07-05-2007, 04:19 PM
And if the Japanese control the market, do you think they'll do the exact same thing?

As othets have already alluded to, a big part of our culture is slowly diminishing.
It's called globalization, look into it.

HemiEd
07-05-2007, 04:46 PM
It's called rationalization, look into it.

fyp

morphius
07-05-2007, 04:55 PM
http://www.mycarstats.com/auto_Recalls/TOYOTA_Recalls.asp
I looked at the Camry for the last 5 years, all were interior systems and one misc component, not really devastating stuff.

HemiEd
07-05-2007, 05:08 PM
I looked at the Camry for the last 5 years, all were interior systems and one misc component, not really devastating stuff.

The only one I clicked on earlier, that seemed to have a lot of magnatude was the Sequoia. Something like close to 600,000 units with ball joint and brake issues, lots of them.

Probably not as bad as the 2000 Durangos with wheels falling off from defective upper ball joints though.

It will take years to overcome perceived low quality from the big three and perceived high quailty from the rising sun. They are actually all good now, except for some of the Korean stuff.
The cars out of Detroit in the 70s was pure shit, the stuff out of Honda, was just as bad at that time.

penchief
07-05-2007, 06:28 PM
Something tells me manufacturing and business aren't things you know anything at all about.

Innovation doesn't drive manufacturing or business in this country anymore. It used to. If it still did we wouldn't be wallowing in the shitmire we're wallowing in right now.

Greed drives business right now. And you can thank your mindset for that type of thinking. "Oh, free market! free market!"

"Fair market" would be more appropriate when representing the ideals of this country.

When those who control the status quo see that the future does not include them, how far will they go to hang on to future riches? Would they stifle innovation? I think so. I think it has already been evident.

GM, IMO, has been guilty of stifling innovation.

Free market, my ass. Are you kidding me?

Logical
07-05-2007, 06:42 PM
This is like being happy the Chiefs lose because you don't like one of their reporters. A little perspective might be good here. :)I will give you the benifit of the doubt that you have not seen the constant pimping that he has done. His arrogance about the superiority of GM frankly has worn far too thin and he needs a little perspective. I certainly hope the Big Three get their act together and recover but unless they become innovative I worry that Ford and Chrysler may fail.

Silock
07-05-2007, 07:50 PM
I think all of you need to think about what will happen to the American economy if GM goes under! Everyones jobs will be suffer not just auto workers. GM is a billion dollor a year industry for the U.S. if it goes down look for really bad things to happen. Mass layoffs in the private sector not just manual labor jobs. So pump up all of your forigen cars I guess you will get good gas milage to the unemployment line!

Total horseshit. They're going to have to buy cars from somewhere. As markets move over to foreign automakers, those automakers will open more and more plants in America and make up the difference.

chiefforlife
07-05-2007, 07:57 PM
Total horseshit. They're going to have to buy cars from somewhere. As markets move over to foreign automakers, those automakers will open more and more plants in America and make up the difference.


Excellent response. Not only will these other automakers hire Americans, they will have the foresight to make sure these jobs dont go away in 10 years. It is sad to me that we as Americans are no longer the leaders in innovation and job security...or anything else for that matter.

Eric
07-05-2007, 11:25 PM
detroit cars are ugly.

Americans can't design cars.

Hire euros like apple does.