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View Full Version : Likely future cuts as of now....


dallaschiefsfan
04-24-2001, 12:02 AM
Barring mini-camp and training camp improvements or injuries to other players...there are a few men who ought to be looking for a pink slip in light of our draft and recent trade. Notables include....

TE: Troy Drayton (is he actually signed?) Dunn and Baber will be Gonzalez' backups.

RB: Signing Holmes and the drafting of Derrick Blaylock in the 4th round signaled the end of the line for Dante Hall and....yes...Mike Cloud. Moreau's worth is higher because he can double as a FB and RB, much like Richardson.

CB: I have a feeling that Vermeil brought in Taje Allen to make the team and leave Carlton Gray as the odd man out...and I'm sure everyone is sooooo disappointed...

DT/DE: Derrick Ransom may have seen his last days in KC with the drafting of Eric Downing AND Terdell Sands...but Sands might start on the practice squad, which could save Ransom.

LB: Since Atkins is moving to LB, the position isn't as thin as some think. Andre O'neal or Gary Stills will probably be cut...or both of them could be cut if a bargain can be had after June 1st.

Agree? Disagree? Thoughts? Did I miss someone?

keg in kc
04-24-2001, 01:00 AM
TE: Troy Drayton (is he actually signed?) Dunn and Baber will be Gonzalez' backups

I don't believe Drayton is signed, and I agree that he's the odd man out. Dick Vermeil basically said that much earlier today on the radio.

RB: Signing Holmes and the drafting of Derrick Blaylock in the 4th round signaled the end of the line for Dante Hall and....yes...Mike Cloud. Moreau's worth is higher because he can double as a FB and RB, much like Richardson.

I think Hall may well be gone. I do not, however, believe Cloud will be cut. If he is not a Chief, than he will be traded. Vermeil has made several statements recently talking about Cloud developing, and those are the sorts of things you say if you intend to actually develop someone or wish to trade him, not if you're going to cut him.

CB: I have a feeling that Vermeil brought in Taje Allen to make the team and leave Carlton Gray as the odd man out...and I'm sure everyone is sooooo disappointed...

Could be. Gray has been notably absent from in statements by team officials.

DT/DE: Derrick Ransom may have seen his last days in KC with the drafting of Eric Downing AND Terdell Sands...but Sands might start on the practice squad, which could save Ransom.

We just signed Ransom to a one year $509K contract. I don't see us cutting him at this point, and we literally need every single body we have at D-tackle.

LB: Since Atkins is moving to LB, the position isn't as thin as some think. Andre O'neal or Gary Stills will probably be cut...or both of them could be cut if a bargain can be had after June 1st.

As for LB, Atkins merely fills the void left by the release of Ron George. Stills was apparently tearing up NFL Europe during the preseason(although I haven't heard any mention of his play during games this opening weekend...). I don't see us cutting O'Neal or anyone else at this point, because anyone we cut we'll have to replace for reasons of depth. I think if anyone is in danger, however, it's Lew Bush (1 Million base salary) or Marvcus Patton, for his 500K base and his age. With the exception of Richard Jordan, no other KC LB has a base salary of more than 400K, so I think they're all safe.

The move of Atkins means we have only one backup for both safety positions, so that's probably something that will need to be addressed in FA later on.

dallaschiefsfan
04-24-2001, 01:21 AM
kyle....some good thoughts. You might want to go back and count out 53 bodies, though.....I think if we keep Cloud, all of our linemen as you suggest and all of our linebackers, we'd be about 4 men over 53.

I do think 99% of these guys are heading to training camp....just not sure how many have a good chance of surviving from there....someone is gonna' have to be cut from the d-line or linebackers...as will a running back or two.

Sidenote....I've never known a team to carry more than 4 safeties...so I'm guessing that one backup at each safety position will be about right...but they will need more bodies for training camp.

The Bad Guy
04-24-2001, 01:46 AM
Dallas and Kyle,

Great points.

I think however that Lew Bush's position with the Chiefs is safe.

Vermeil keeps talking about how hard he is working, and about the great off-season he is having.

I'm willing to give Bush a chance. The guy dealt with some things last year, and with a fresh new look on defense, he should be alright.

I think that the terrible linebacker play was also a reflection of Kurt Schottenheimer. None of the backers, outside of Maz, had a good season.

I think after the minicamp there will be some cuts.

Namely, Mark Thomas, Gus Orienstein, Jabar Threets, and some other worthless roster fillers.

Dick said he would evaluate all the talent at the minicamp to see what weakness we have.

The mini-camp may also spell the end of Todd Peterson as our kicker. He can't kickoff to save his life, and his field goals are inconsistant. Hopefully the coaching staff realizes this over the weekend.

There are guys like John Carney, and Morten Anderson still out there to fill in nicely on this Chiefs team.

I agree, I think Dante Hall's roster spot is now gone.

We likely will only have 5-6 RB's on the roster.

Holmes, Cloud, Blaylock, Moreau, Richardson and Layne are the ones I could. I'm going out on a limb, but I don't think Moreau will be active for 2/3rds of the season.

I also think you will see Carlton Gray finally released. We have no use for this cap eating, no talent 5th stringer.

If D'Marco Farr decides he wants to play for KC, I think Dan Williams job immediately becomes in jeopardy.

Browning is penciled in as one starter, and Williams as the other at the current moment.

However, if you recall when he was with Denver, Greg Robinson wasn't perticulary fond of DW. He was a first-round pick that never materialized in his defense.

If Farr is signed that would give us Browning and Farr as the starters with Ransom, Downing, and Steve Martin as the backups. I could live with that.

Terdell Sands will find his way on the practice squad this season.

On Larry Atkins, I think sam linebacker is a great position for him to play. He is to slow to cover receivers, but he can hit like a truck.

I can see our linebackers shape up like this.

weak side- Donnie, Andre O'neal
Middle- Patton, Maz
Strong- Bush, Atkins

Again this isn't an outstanding unit, but they could get the job done. Greg Robinson's defensive system has showcased linebackers. I think he could do the same here.

Just my .02 cents. But I right now feel 100x better about this team, than I ever did when Gunther was here.

What else I love is Vermeil calling out Edwards, Patton and Gonzalez about not participating in weight training. These guys are going to be leaders on this team, and it starts in the off-season. Great move by Vermeil telling them to shape up. I think all of these guys will come prepared regardless if they participate or not, but Vermeil is trying to build some continuity with this team.

It seems like we finally have a direction, and a coach who can take us to where we want to go. I never ever felt that way with Goonther.

Lastly, does anyone know where I can get a good Trent Green picture with him at the press conference? I need something better for my computer wallpaper than the picture of Elvis Girlback with an x through his face.

Thanks guys!

keg in kc
04-24-2001, 02:03 AM
I think if we keep Cloud, all of our linemen as you suggest and all of our linebackers, we'd be about 4 men over 53

No, I don't believe we will, because you have to consider the bodies from last year's roster that we've lost, and who will replace them:

Anders - Holmes
Grbac - Green
Grunhard - Weigmann (I am assuming Grunny is retired...)
Hasty - Crockett
Lockett - Horne
McGlockton - Owens
Moon - Brister


Then throw in the people who have not been replaced, add the people we may cut and then plug in the rookies:

Bennett - Layne
Drayton - Baber
George - No LB drafted, so I'm plugging in Beisel here
Gray - no CB drafted, so I'm plugging in Downing here
Hall - Blaylock
Ricks - Minnis


(btw, I'm not putting Bush on that list because I agree with Frank at this point. However he is expensive, so still a question mark.)

I see Sands and Harts as members of the practice squad for 2001. Sulsted is the only newly-drafted player unaccounted for at this point, and I believe he may be on the roster as a backup for Blackshear.


Finally, my point about the safeties is that we don't have one backup for each position at this point. Harts is projected as a special teams player at best (I see him on the practice squad) at this point, not a backup to a starter. The only backup we have now is Bracy Walker.

dallaschiefsfan
04-24-2001, 02:18 AM
QBs': Green, Brister, Collins
HB: Holms, Moreau, Blaylock
FB: Richardson, Layne
WR: Morris, Rickks, Horne, Alexander, Parker, Minnis
TE: Gonzalez, Dunn, Baber, Gammon (long snapper)
OL: Tait, Blackshear, Sulsted, Wiegmann, Waters, Shields, Willis, Riley, Alford

DL: Hicks, Owens, Martin, McCleary, Williams, Browning, Downing, Clemons, Beisel
LB: Maslowski, Bush, O'Neal, Patton, Edwards, Atkins
CB: Dennis, Warfield, Crockett, Bartee, Allen
S: Woods, Walker, Wesley, Harts

P/K: Stryzinski, Peterson

Practice Squad: Sands and undrafted free agents

I count 53 by the depth chart as it appears after the draft...so there has to be at least 3 cuts/adjustments to keep Cloud, Stills and Ransom.

As I said before, a bunch can happen from now til the end of camp....but if we broke camp today, this is the group I'd see going to Arrowhead.

Kyle....I wouldn't be shocked if the Chiefs also list Atkins as a safety in addition to being a linebacker, since he could play the position in a pinch if two safeties go down. I believe they did that when they carried only 3 safeties 4 years ago....they listed Warfield as a CB and a FS. Just my...well....it's not .02 anymore....it's about .06 now. :)

keg in kc
04-24-2001, 03:13 AM
there has to be at least 3 cuts/adjustments to keep Cloud, Stills and Ransom

I can give you two names right now that I think are likely candidates for the axe:

Mikhael Ricks and Marvcus Patton.

Ricks doesn't fit the system or impress the coaching staff (according to Adam Teicher) and is completely expendable, IMO, with the additions of Horne and Minnis. Patton will be 34 years old - my only question is how costly it would be to release him, since he has 6 years remaining on his contract.

Ransom is expendable, since he's only contracted for one season.

TCB
04-24-2001, 05:00 AM
I don't think Dan Williams is going anywhere. I don't think any money is saved by cutting him. Besides with the exit of Chester I will be curious to see if his play (and health) doesn't improve this year.

I live out of town and never heard the story about DV calling out Gonzo, Patton, and Edwards.
When did this happen? What's the scoop.

Warrior5
04-24-2001, 06:14 AM
I WISH the Chiefs could sign John Carney, but I thought the Bolts re-signed him about two weeks ago.

keg in kc
04-24-2001, 06:19 AM
TCB-

This is the last answer in a Q&A session (http://kcchiefs.com/latest/mainnews.asp?storyID=2171) about the draft from Sunday evening:

Q: With these three days of mini-camp coming up next weekend, are you confident in what you can do personnel-wise?

Vermeil: "We will not be limited in what we can do from a talent standpoint. We may not do it as well today as we will do two years from now. I want these young guys to understand the Chief philosophy. They need to understand that itís not the start of a program itís a part of a crusade. I expect them to make the same commitment that everyone else is and become a partner in this thing. Iíve started out two rebuilding programs, and Iíve never been this far along. Yesterday we had all but three players under contract in the weight room. Edwards, Gonzalez and Patton werenít there, and they are falling behind. As soon as they get here they will realize that things are changing. I hope it sends a message."

kcred
04-24-2001, 06:48 AM
This is in reply to Gary Stills. He had at least one sack last week in NFLE. They do not post defensive stats, but in the game recap they mentioned it. In response to Carney, San Diego, signed the kicker from the 49ers, I think Carney is still available. Carl loved the signing of his namesake last year, and it was a two year deal, so we may not have a change. This has been a problem the Chiefs have had for years. No competition, just hand the jobe to whoever, and hope they work out.

keg in kc
04-24-2001, 07:15 AM
I was trying to watch Stills as much as I can in NFL Europe and saw that he was among the league leaders in sacks (with one...), but I was disappointed that they don't keep any tackling statistics. Still, the info about him going into the season sounded really good.

His team's playing on Fox Sports Net this weekend at noon, by the way, so if I'm not at the Chiefs practice I'll probably be watching in person...

HC_Chief
04-24-2001, 07:58 AM
Blaylock played WR and returned kicks in college - along with recent RB duties. I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the slot a couple times this season.

I think Cloud will be history... no trade value.

The Bad Guy
04-24-2001, 08:48 AM
<I><<<<I can give you two names right now that I think are likely candidates for the axe:

Mikhael Ricks and Marvcus Patton.

Ricks doesn't fit the system or impress the coaching staff (according to Adam Teicher) and is completely expendable, IMO, with the additions of Horne and Minnis. Patton will be 34 years old - my only question is how costly it would be to release him, since he has 6 years remaining on his contract. >>></I>

Kyle,

Since I don't know how to do that fancy way of quoting, I decided to cut and paste the portion I would respond to.

I agree with you about Mikhael Ricks. I don't think he has a spot on this team at all. He isn't a speedster, and isn't the sharpest toole in the shed either. Vermeil said he wants to add a veteran WR to this mix.

I however don't think Patton will be going anywhere. I thought this was the last year of his contract, unless he restructured it. Patton and Crockett will be our defensive leaders this year.

I agree Marv had a bad 2000, but all of our linebackers did. I'm willing to see how he performes in the preseason before I'm willing to throw the ax down.

Phobia
04-24-2001, 08:53 AM
I think there will be multiple surprise cuts due to the new staff. Some guys that impressed someone several years ago that have been biding their time since will not have that luxury with nearly 100% turnover in the staff. I don't know who these guys are just yet but there will be surprises after training camp. DV will want this to be HIS team with HIS guys. Anybody HE didn't bring in is suspect with the exception of a select few such as DA, DE, TG, & other potential pro-bowlers.

Iowanian
04-24-2001, 09:59 AM
Is TY Parten still in the mix? I was starting to like what I was seeing from him before the injury last year.

I too think Gray is gone..one of the young guys will take his spot as a special team monster if nothing else...

I'd like to see what Bush does in camp and preseason before he is cut...He did have alot of things going on in his personal life that could easily affect play and concentration...not to mention the stooges.

I thought I read that NE had an interest in Cloud...He might fair much better in this new offense though.

ct
04-24-2001, 10:12 AM
I think we'd be wise to hold onto Cloud. Even if he does have any trade value, it is likely pretty low. Cloud just might find a niche in this new offense.

However, I'm always leery of coaches making comments like 'Such and such has never been given a real shot, he'll be given every opportunity to earn the starting job', or any variety of the sort. Recent statements have been made similar to above regarding Cloud and Warfield. This typically spells doom for the player in these comments. My interpretation: 'This is your last shot, buddy. Better not blow it!!'

Pitt Gorilla
04-24-2001, 02:25 PM
I, too, do not believe that Cloud will be cut. He might be a great fit for the new offense. DV will give him a shot.

Clint in Wichita
04-24-2001, 05:45 PM
I didn't know there was a niche in the new offense that calls for a slow, weak RB.

That must be a part of the "Lull the offense into a false sense of security" formation.

htismaqe
04-24-2001, 06:04 PM
I agree with Clint...

Pitt Gorilla
04-24-2001, 11:03 PM
Exactly how slow and weak is he? I mean, give me some numbers.