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Baby Lee
07-07-2007, 06:40 PM
Love that this man has teamed up with trainer Emanuel.
Peas and Carrots.
Cool to see him go from this huge frame with a few great shots and some glaring weaknesses, to a technician, expert in his peculiar strengths.
Hard to tell if Brewster was just down, or Wlad has gotten that much better, probably a bit of both.
So what does everyone think; a Leviathan who could've strode into the ring with pride in any era, a decent fighter who looks better than he is due to a dearth of opposition talent, evidence of the death of the heavyweight division, what?

Personally, I've enjoyed watching him grow more than watching anyone since Foreman came back middle-aged.

ZootedGranny
07-07-2007, 07:23 PM
I'm going with "decent fighter who looks better than he is due to a dearth of opposition talent."

He's too safe. He rarely throws any body shots, he has no inside game, and any time an opponent gets inside, he grabs them and hangs over their back. He doesn't use the uppercut, and he doesn't string together more than three punches at a time.

All that said, while I don't like his style, I'm not mad he's using it. He has a great jab, and fighting these bums, that's all he needs to use.

If he were fighting in the 90s, I don't see him doing anything against Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis, etc.

htismaqe
07-07-2007, 07:26 PM
AWESOME, I was just coming here to talk some boxing.

Personally, I think Klitschko is more on the "looks better due to a dearth of opposing talent". That being said, I think he's grown alot. He's a boxer, which is quite rare in his division. I really can't stand heavyweights anymore, the smaller guys are much more fun.

And with that, I ask:

Who's watching Vic Darchinyan tonight? Now there's a guy that's fun to watch.

Fishpicker
07-07-2007, 07:31 PM
Both Klitschkos are 1-2 fighters. Neither have a chin. They both walk at the same weight they fight at... Both Klitschkos are vulnerable to cuts and pussification. Both Klitschkos are great physical specimens that struggle with the ropes, the science, the sport, the strategies, and everything else that pertains to boxing. The Klitschkos are athletes and are not boxers. I'll watch heavyweight boxing again, once the Klitschkos die off. Heavyweight boxing used to consist of more than just pituary F***-ups trading blows. I can hardly wait for the Atavistic essence to re-emerge.

htismaqe
07-07-2007, 07:34 PM
Both Klitschkos are 1-2 fighters. Neither have a chin. They both walk at the same weight they fight at... Both Klitschkos are vulnerable to cuts and pussification. Both Klitschkos are great physical specimens that struggle with the ropes, the science, the sport, the strategies, and everything else that pertains to boxing. The Klitschkos are athletes and are not boxers. I'll watch heavyweight boxing again, once the Klitschkos die off. Heavyweight boxing used to consist of more than just pituary F***-ups trading blows. I can hardly wait for the Atavistic essence to re-emerge.

Really, there aren't many heavyweights that understand the science and strategy. There's alot of brawlers out there that couldn't box their way out of a wet paper bag.

Vladimir Klitschko, while he has many of the flaws you mention, isn't a wild-punching, street fighter, and as such is a breath of fresh air in a truly stagnant division.

Baby Lee
07-07-2007, 07:35 PM
He's too safe. He rarely throws any body shots, he has no inside game, and any time an opponent gets inside, he grabs them and hangs over their back. He doesn't use the uppercut, and he doesn't string together more than three punches at a time.
That's Emanuel's doing.
Dude used to wear himself breathless, flail all over, and ultimately get blasted to the moon with a shot to his exposed jaw.
Emanuel has had him working on overall physique and the awareness of the advantage his frame and long arms give him.
Dude straight up demoralized Brewster with rain from above. More jabs landed against Brewster ever in a fight in just the first 5 rounds.
And like Foreman said, 'you got a real jab, you got a real advantage in this game.'

htismaqe
07-07-2007, 07:36 PM
And like Foreman said, 'you got a real jab, you got a real advantage in this game.'

Especially as a heavyweight. It's not just a jab when you're that size. Brewster has to have a headache as many times as his head snapped back...

Baby Lee
07-07-2007, 07:37 PM
Both Klitschkos are 1-2 fighters. Neither have a chin. They both walk at the same weight they fight at... Both Klitschkos are vulnerable to cuts and pussification. Both Klitschkos are great physical specimens that struggle with the ropes, the science, the sport, the strategies, and everything else that pertains to boxing. The Klitschkos are athletes and are not boxers. I'll watch heavyweight boxing again, once the Klitschkos die off. Heavyweight boxing used to consist of more than just pituary F***-ups trading blows. I can hardly wait for the Atavistic essence to re-emerge.
That's why him teaming up with Emanuel is so enjoyable to watch. He's progressed from match to match, correcting those deficiencies.

Fishpicker
07-07-2007, 07:41 PM
Really, there aren't many heavyweights that understand the science and strategy. There's alot of brawlers out there that couldn't box their way out of a wet paper bag.

Vladimir Klitschko, while he has many of the flaws you mention, isn't a wild-punching, street fighter, and as such is a breath of fresh air in a truly stagnant division.

I agree with you in essence. he doesnt have anything beyond a 1-and-a-2. It's really boring, it's complete junk. I think it is wonderful that no one can even compete with Vlad... his reach IS long. I wont pay for it though. No self-respecting fan of boxing would pay to watch that trite BS. If I wanted to see referees determine the outcomes of competitions, I would watch NFL football (free BTW)

htismaqe
07-07-2007, 08:15 PM
I agree with you in essence. he doesnt have anything beyond a 1-and-a-2. It's really boring, it's complete junk. I think it is wonderful that no one can even compete with Vlad... his reach IS long. I wont pay for it though. No self-respecting fan of boxing would pay to watch that trite BS. If I wanted to see referees determine the outcomes of competitions, I would watch NFL football (free BTW)

Well, to be fair, this was essentially "free" to anyone who is paying for HBO programming. In other words, it wasn't a PPV.

So is anybody watching this Darchniyan fight? If not, you should be. One of the most entertaining fighters in all of boxing...

pr_capone
07-07-2007, 08:32 PM
IMHO, There has not been an interesting heavyweight fighter since Mikey lost to Buster. That was the day that the heavyweight title lost its burst.

Since then, all I have ever seen from that division is 2 big guys in a cinch after the 5th round. Klitschko is the closest thing to the heavyweights of old that we have had in a LONG time. Thing is that he has no serious competition.

Give me the middleweights and below for a good fight. Especially the featherweights. I love me some Manny Pacquiao.

htismaqe
07-07-2007, 08:38 PM
Give me the middleweights and below for a good fight. Especially the featherweights. I love me some Manny Pacquiao.

There's a new flyweight IBO/IBF champion! Nonito Donaire just STUNNED Vic Darchinyan with a counter left hook. Knocked him out in the 5th round.

ZootedGranny
07-07-2007, 08:42 PM
Awww man, Vic got rocked! Hahaha

htismaqe
07-07-2007, 08:43 PM
Awww man, Vic got rocked! Hahaha

Yeah, and he's acting like a little bitch now. Serious denial there.

ZootedGranny
07-07-2007, 08:45 PM
Yep, exactly what I was thinking.

"I feel I wasn't hurt." Is that why you went from face down ass up to stumbling across the ring like a drunkard?

htismaqe
07-07-2007, 08:48 PM
Yep, exactly what I was thinking.

"I feel I wasn't hurt." Is that why you went from face down ass up to stumbling across the ring like a drunkard?

He not only said he wasn't hurt, he said he didn't feel he was "knocked down". I'm sitting here thinking "yeah, you probably didn't realize you were knocked down because you were unconcious at the time".

htismaqe
07-07-2007, 08:59 PM
This Simms/Alcine fight should be another good one.

Can't wait to see Paul Williams fight Antonio Margerito too...

ZootedGranny
07-07-2007, 09:52 PM
Can't wait to see Paul Williams fight Antonio Margerito too...

This is the fight I've been looking forward to.

I think it's a tossup. Williams has been fighting cans, so Margarito has been fighting tougher opposition, but otherwise, I can't call it either way. A compelling argument can be made for both fighters.

Williams is much more athletically gifted, but he's finally coming up against someone who can match his workrate, and who can take his punches. He takes too many avoidable punches, which is dangerous against Marg, but at the same time his speed should give Marg problems.

htismaqe
07-07-2007, 10:05 PM
This is the fight I've been looking forward to.

I think it's a tossup. Williams has been fighting cans, so Margarito has been fighting tougher opposition, but otherwise, I can't call it either way. A compelling argument can be made for both fighters.

Williams is much more athletically gifted, but he's finally coming up against someone who can match his workrate, and who can take his punches. He takes too many avoidable punches, which is dangerous against Marg, but at the same time his speed should give Marg problems.

Williams also uses his "space" very well, fighting from the edge. When he gets inside he gets in trouble, but when he can successfully fight his fight, he's fun to watch.

htismaqe
07-07-2007, 10:44 PM
By the way, Amir Khan is on an undercard on the 13th. If you hear of it being broadcast anywhere, send me a PM. I would like to see him fight again.

chiefsfan1963
07-07-2007, 10:59 PM
Joe Frazier would have knocked this guy to his next life in the first round in his prime. Many other great boxers in each decade starting in the 30's thru the 90's wouldn't have Klitch as a sparring partner let alone in an actual fight.

Heavyweight boxing in general is in a SAD state!!! Basically most of all the weight classes is in the same state.

KCFalcon59
07-07-2007, 11:01 PM
IMHO, There has not been an interesting heavyweight fighter since Mikey lost to Buster. That was the day that the heavyweight title lost its burst.

Since then, all I have ever seen from that division is 2 big guys in a cinch after the 5th round. Klitschko is the closest thing to the heavyweights of old that we have had in a LONG time. Thing is that he has no serious competition.

Give me the middleweights and below for a good fight. Especially the featherweights. I love me some Manny Pacquiao.

Buster had a real nice jab. Could have had a good career. Instead he ate himself out of boxing.

htismaqe
07-07-2007, 11:26 PM
Basically most of all the weight classes is in the same state.

Absolutely untrue.

Boxing has problems, in particular that they need a single governing body like the NFL, MLB, etc.

But the lower weight classes up through the 160-pounders have some truly GREAT talent out there.

The heavyweight division is the highest-profile division, but it's health or lack thereof certainly isn't indicative of all of boxing.

chiefsfan1963
07-08-2007, 10:54 AM
Absolutely untrue.

Boxing has problems, in particular that they need a single governing body like the NFL, MLB, etc.

But the lower weight classes up through the 160-pounders have some truly GREAT talent out there.

The heavyweight division is the highest-profile division, but it's health or lack thereof certainly isn't indicative of all of boxing.

I will give you that there is much better talent in the other weight classes, but overall the fight game is no where near what it used to be.

It will most likely stay that way. We will only be able to reminisce the glory days through movies like Raging Bull and Cinderella Man.