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a1na2
07-07-2007, 07:14 PM
Remember the guy who got on a plane with a bomb built into his shoe and tried to light it?

Did you know his trial is over?
Did you know he was sentenced?
Did you see/hear any of the judge's comments on TV/Radio?
Didn't think so.


Everyone should hear what the judge had to say....

Ruling by Judge William Young, US District Court:

Prior to sentencing, the Judge asked the defendant if he had anything to say.

His response: After admitting his guilt to the court for the record, Reid also admitted his "Allegiance to Osama bin Laden, to Islam, and to the religion of Allah," defiantly stated "I think I will not apologize for my actions," and told the court "I am at war with your country."

Judge Young then delivered the statement quoted below:

January 30, 2003, United States vs. Reid. Judge Young: "Mr. Richard C. Reid, hearken now to the sentence the Court imposes upon you.

On counts 1, 5 and 6 the Court sentences you to life in prison in the custody of the United State s Attorney General. On counts 2, 3, 4 and 7, the Court sentences you to 20 years in prison on each count, the sentence on each count to run consecutive with the other.

That's 80 years. On count 8 the Court sentences you to the mandatory 30 years consecutive to the 80 years just imposed. The Court imposes upon you each of the eight counts a fine of $250,000 for the aggregate fine of $2 million. The Court accepts the government's recommendation with respect to restitution and orders restitution in the amount of $298.17 to Andre Bousquet and $5,784 to American Airlines. The Court imposes upon you the $800 special assessment.


The Court imposes upon you five years supervised release simply because the law requires it. But the life sentences are real life sentences so I need go no further. This is the sentence that is provided for by our statutes. It is a fair and just sentence. It is a righteous sentence.

Let me explain this to you. We are not afraid of you or any of your terrorist co-conspirators, Mr. Reid. We are Americans. We have been through the fire before. There is all too much war talk here and I say that to everyone with the utmost respect. Here in this court, we deal with individuals as individuals and care for individuals as individuals. As human beings, we reach out for justice.

You are not an enemy combatant. You are a terrorist. You are not a soldier in any war. You are a terrorist. To give you that reference, to call you a soldier, gives you far too much stature. Whether it is the officers of government who do it or your attorney who does it, or if you think you are a soldier. You are not----- you are a terrorist. And we do not negotiate with terrorists. We do not meet with terrorists. We do not sign documents with terrorists. We hunt them down one by one and bring them to justice.

So war talk is way out of line in this court. You are a big fellow. But you are not that big. You're no warrior. I've known warriors. You are a terrorist. A species of criminal that is guilty of multiple attempted murders. In a very real sense, State Trooper Santiago had it right when you first were taken off that plane and into custody and you wondered where the press and where the TV crews were, and he said: "You're no big deal."

You are no big deal.

What your able counsel and what the equally able United States attorneys have grappled with and what I have as honestly as I know how tried to grapple with, is why you did something so horrific. What was it that led you here to this courtroom today?

I have listened respectfully to what you have to say. And I ask you to search your heart and ask yourself what sort of unfathomable hate led you to do what you are guilty and admit you are guilty of doing. And I have an answer for you. It may not satisfy you, but as I search this entire record, it comes as close to understanding as I know.

It seems to me you hate the one thing that to us is most precious. You hate our freedom. Our individual freedom... Our individual freedom to live as we choose, to come and go as we choose, to believe or not believe as we individually choose... Here, in this society, the very wind carries freedom. It carries it everywhere from sea to shining sea. It is because we prize individual freedom so much that you are here in this beautiful courtroom. So that everyone can see, truly see, that justice is administered fairly, individually, and discretely. It is for freedom's sake that your lawyers are striving so vigorously on your behalf and have filed appeals, will go on in their representation of you before other judges.

We Americans are all about freedom. Because we all know that the way we treat you, Mr. Reid, is the measure of our own liberties. Make no mistake though. It is yet true that we will bear any burden; pay any price, to preserve our freedoms. Look around this courtroom. Mark it well. The world is not going to long remember what you or I say here. Day after tomorrow, it will be forgotten, but this, however, will long endure. Here in this courtroom and courtrooms all across America, the American people will gather to see that justice, individual justice, justice, not war, individual justice is in fact being done. The very President of the United States through his officers will have to come into courtrooms and lay out evidence on which specific matters can be judged and juries of citizens will gather to sit and judge that evidence democratically, to mold and shape and refine our sense of justice.

See that flag, Mr. Reid? That's the flag of the United States of America. That flag will fly there long after this is all forgotten. That flag stands for freedom. And it always will.

Mr. Custody Officer. Stand him down.


So, how much of this Judge's comments did we hear on our TV sets?
We need more judges like Judge Young, but that's another subject. Pass this around. Everyone should and needs to hear, this fine judge, powerful words that strike home.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/shoebomb.asp

Why haven't we seen this? I surely don't remember seeing it on the tube, nor do I remember reading it in the papers.

StcChief
07-07-2007, 07:36 PM
Unfortunately this doesn't sell papers. But it should.

wazu
07-09-2007, 03:07 AM
NEVAR FORGET!

BucEyedPea
07-09-2007, 07:15 AM
If we just get troops off their lands....then the war would be over, right?

I think so.

redbrian
07-09-2007, 11:38 AM
If we just get troops off their lands....then the war would be over, right?

I think so.

In my opinion no, the Islamic world is at war with the west, with the secular world and with itís self and anyone else who does not believe in the goal of Islamic domination (I am using the word Islam as a generic term to cover all of the terrorist with real or qusi association with any faction of Islam).

The US could remove itís self from all mid-east regions, all Islamic controlled regions and the strife would continue.

The idea of a strong democratically ruled Iraq as a stabilizing entity in the mid-east is still a valid goal, although it is doubtful if the US let alone the UN or the world has the stomach to see it through.

Pulling out of Iraq will only be throwing fuel on the fire, of Islamic insanity.

Cochise
07-09-2007, 12:02 PM
If we just get troops off their lands....then the war would be over, right?

I think so.

I still find it stunning that you actually believe this.

BucEyedPea
07-09-2007, 12:11 PM
I still find it stunning that you actually believe this.
It's the one thing we haven't tried. So there is no proof to your position.

I find it stunning that anyone believes they're in conflict with us soley on religious grounds. Let alone the liklihood of them being able to pull off a global caliphate with all it's inner divisions and sects. Just look at the sunni shia divide in Iraq for one example.

BucEyedPea
07-09-2007, 12:16 PM
In my opinion no, the Islamic world is at war with the west, with the secular world and with itís self and anyone else who does not believe in the goal of Islamic domination (I am using the word Islam as a generic term to cover all of the terrorist with real or qusi association with any faction of Islam).

The US could remove itís self from all mid-east regions, all Islamic controlled regions and the strife would continue.

The idea of a strong democratically ruled Iraq as a stabilizing entity in the mid-east is still a valid goal, although it is doubtful if the US let alone the UN or the world has the stomach to see it through.

Pulling out of Iraq will only be throwing fuel on the fire, of Islamic insanity.
The main problem I have with this pov, is that this theory cannot possibly be correct as to getting to the right causes....or our solution would have worked by now. If we put democracy into SA, Syria, Egypt we will see Islam be more dominant not less. As for them continuing to have strife in thier own regions....well that's their problem to deal with. We've had ours in the west too.

There is only a clash between the two worlds because we insist on them being like us, doing as we do, accepting Israel, accepting US bases etc. etc. etc. Live and let live has more workability than shoving our values down their throats. This has never worked anywhere. It won't now. That last hegemon that was attacked like this was Great Britain....and we threw them out too. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Hog Farmer
07-09-2007, 12:22 PM
It's the one thing we haven't tried. So there is not proof to your position.

I find it stunning that anyone believes they're in conflict with us soley on religious grounds. Let alone the liklihood of them being able to pull off a global caliphate with all it's inner divisions and sects. Just look at the sunni shia divide in Iraq for one example.


Jesus Christ, some people are stuped!

BucEyedPea
07-09-2007, 12:25 PM
Jesus Christ, some people are stuped!
Are you projecting?

This what I expect from the likes of you on the right these days.
Calling others what they are themselves, when they can't counter with any intelligence points.


Now explain to me how what we've done to date is working.

Hog Farmer
07-09-2007, 12:40 PM
Are you projecting?

This what I expect from the likes of you on the right these days.
Calling others what they are themselves, when they can't counter with any intelligence points.


Now explain to me how what we've done to date is working.

Well, we don't have to worry about Saddam Hussein developing weapons of mass destruction now do we.

BucEyedPea
07-09-2007, 12:44 PM
Well, we don't have to worry about Saddam Hussein developing weapons of mass destruction now do we.
Maybe not him, ( even though they got rid of all their WMD so this is moot) but I'd say we just made it more likely for others to want WMD so we don't invade them. Isn't that what NK did, isn't that what is alleged about Iran? You can't gaurantee the new govt of Iraq won't someday either.

No offense=best defense

Pitt Gorilla
07-09-2007, 12:50 PM
W commuted the sentence, as it was "excessive."

Hog Farmer
07-09-2007, 12:52 PM
Well if we pull out of the ME there will be nonstop nuclear development. I just think pulling out is stuped. We knew going in this would be a long fight. You can't reason with these people. You have to get them to show themselves and kill them.

Cochise
07-09-2007, 02:22 PM
It's the one thing we haven't tried. So there is no proof to your position.

I find it stunning that anyone believes they're in conflict with us soley on religious grounds. Let alone the liklihood of them being able to pull off a global caliphate with all it's inner divisions and sects. Just look at the sunni shia divide in Iraq for one example.

Really now. I know you want to be seen as high brow and tolorant and everything like that. But when you ask these people themselves and they freely tell you it's God's commandment, I tend to believe them over an armchair analyst on the other side of the planet.

I wonder how many news reports could be found of terrorism in the last 10 years that did not involve Islam? I wonder how many active military conflicts in the world do not have Islamists on at least one side? I wonder how many of them would hold to your theory that religion has nothing to do with with their actions?

Taco John
07-09-2007, 02:29 PM
But when you ask these people themselves and they freely tell you it's God's commandment...



Who did you ask?

Taco John
07-09-2007, 02:32 PM
I wonder how many news reports could be found of terrorism in the last 10 years that did not involve Islam?


Let's see...

The Olympic Bombing - A Christian making a statement about abortion

WTC first bombing - Islamist attack

OKC Bombing - Supposedly a disgruntled right wing group of radicals

WTC second bombing - Islamist attack



Looks like we're looking at about 50% on US soil.

Taco John
07-09-2007, 02:33 PM
Let's not forget the terrorist attack at Waco. Does it count when the federal government is the terrorist?

Cochise
07-09-2007, 02:41 PM
Let's see...

The Olympic Bombing - A Christian making a statement about abortion

WTC first bombing - Islamist attack

OKC Bombing - Supposedly a disgruntled right wing group of radicals

WTC second bombing - Islamist attack



Looks like we're looking at about 50% on US soil.

So just in these attacks, we have a grand total of three Christian American terrorists, compared with dozens involved from planning to implementation of the attacks in only the other two. This is to say nothing of the foils of Fort Dix, the JFK airport attack, the one planned for 2000, and whatever others. The death toll for those four incidents is radical Islamists 2,980, crazy Christians 170... so on US soil, the Islamists have a 95% share of the fatalities.

But anyway, this was not limited to US soil. For 'terrorist attacks' I was giving her the scope of the entire world to choose from, in the last 10 years, and looking at attacks where perpetrator was Islamic versus not Islamic as a percentage. Or we could look at the number of people killed by terrorism in the last decade, the number killed by islamic extremist terrorism vs. other terrorism.

The other point was of all active military conflicts in the world right now, how many are there were neither side predominantly practices Islam? I don't know any hard info on this one, but I would guess that it's probably most of them.