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Ugly Duck
07-08-2007, 10:34 AM
Go Republicans! Go Boyz Go!!


Iraqi lawmakers' long summer vacation plans rile Republicans
Bush's allies in Congress say two-month break would erode GOP support for the war.

At issue is whether the Iraqi parliament will take its regular summer break, a two-month vacation scheduled to begin July 1. If it does, Republican lawmakers have warned that the Iraqis' recess could cost President Bush support from within his own party at a crucial moment in the war.

The U.S.-backed government in Baghdad "would lose a lot of support here," said Sen. Tom Coburn, a conservative Republican from Oklahoma who has opposed Democratic attempts to set a deadline for U.S. troop cutbacks in Iraq. "We're fighting hard. You need to be fighting hard."

Top administration officials have noted the concern. Vice President Dick Cheney raised the issue in meetings with Iraqi officials in Baghdad on Wednesday, and Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates discussed it during his most recent trip to Iraq.

"I'll be blunt: I told some of the Iraqis with whom I met that we are buying them [time] for political reconciliation, and that every day we buy it with American blood," Gates said at a Senate hearing Wednesday. "For this group to go out for two months, it would, in my opinion, be unacceptable."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-vacation10may10,0,2681550.story?coll=la-home-center

CHIEF4EVER
07-08-2007, 10:59 AM
Although the LA Slimes is usually a socialist tabloid disguised as a newspaper, this time they have it right. I am not a Rep but as a conservative I am even more pissed off about the BS going on in Iraq than I ever was before. Not only are the Iraqis unwilling to pass legislation to ensure peace in their own county, now they are taking a break from getting effing NOTHING done. EFF THEM. Let's get our boys out and redeploy them to Afghanistan where the real fight is. Let the dickheads in Iraq figure out what they want on their own time and using their own security forces.

BucEyedPea
07-08-2007, 11:03 AM
Sigh....I don't know any other country that has the American work ethic.
We are unique and can't expect the rest of the world to be like us.

jAZ
07-08-2007, 11:11 AM
Although the LA Slimes is usually a socialist tabloid disguised as a newspaper, this time they have it right. I am not a Rep but as a conservative I am even more pissed off about the BS going on in Iraq than I ever was before. Not only are the Iraqis unwilling to pass legislation to ensure peace in their own county, now they are taking a break from getting effing NOTHING done. EFF THEM. Let's get our boys out and redeploy them to Afghanistan where the real fight is. Let the dickheads in Iraq figure out what they want on their own time and using their own security forces.
About EFFING time.

trndobrd
07-08-2007, 11:24 AM
In other news, humans have landed on the moon....


Seriously, why would you post an LA Times story from May 10th when a simple search would reveal that it has already been posted and discussed two months ago?

BTW, the Iraqi legislature IS in session and is set to begin debating the oil revenue bill.


http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/iraq/20070703-0440-iraq.html


In Iraq
Iraq Cabinet approves oil law draft, parliament to begin debate, official says


By Qassim Abdul-Zahra
ASSOCIATED PRESS

4:40 a.m. July 3, 2007

BAGHDAD Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's Cabinet approved a draft oil law and the Iraqi parliament was to begin debate on the measure Wednesday, a major sign of progress in a long-delayed political benchmark sought by the U.S. to boost reconciliation between Iraq's Sunnis and Shiites

wazu
07-08-2007, 11:26 AM
So that article is from May 10th...it's now July 8th. Anybody know if they took the vacation?

CHIEF4EVER
07-08-2007, 11:30 AM
In other news, humans have landed on the moon....


Seriously, why would you post an LA Times story from May 10th when a simple search would reveal that it has already been posted and discussed two months ago?

BTW, the Iraqi legislature IS in session and is set to begin debating the oil revenue bill.


http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/iraq/20070703-0440-iraq.html


In Iraq
Iraq Cabinet approves oil law draft, parliament to begin debate, official says


By Qassim Abdul-Zahra
ASSOCIATED PRESS

4:40 a.m. July 3, 2007

BAGHDAD Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's Cabinet approved a draft oil law and the Iraqi parliament was to begin debate on the measure Wednesday, a major sign of progress in a long-delayed political benchmark sought by the U.S. to boost reconciliation between Iraq's Sunnis and Shiites

Damn. I didn't check the born on date of the article before reacting. My bad. I still think we have overstayed our visit in that shithole. The legislation they are "debating" should have been law already IMO.

Ugly Duck
07-08-2007, 12:04 PM
Seriously, why would you post an LA Times story from May 10th when a simple search would reveal that it has already been posted and discussed two months ago?

Propaganda value. Reiterates the fact that if they were ever going to stand up, they would have stood up long ago. Reinforces the ongoing Republican defections from the party line. Most importantly, really pisses off readers when they are confronted with the nature of the Iraqis that our boyz are dying for. That, and the minor item that I didn't check the date.....

ClevelandBronco
07-08-2007, 01:34 PM
Republicans are peeved. Okay. Are the Democrats basically fine with it?

Pitt Gorilla
07-08-2007, 02:02 PM
I honestly wonder if they give a f*ck how many Americans have to die for their freedom.

Logical
07-08-2007, 03:39 PM
Although the LA Slimes is usually a socialist tabloid disguised as a newspaper, this time they have it right. I am not a Rep but as a conservative I am even more pissed off about the BS going on in Iraq than I ever was before. Not only are the Iraqis unwilling to pass legislation to ensure peace in their own county, now they are taking a break from getting effing NOTHING done. EFF THEM. Let's get our boys out and redeploy them to Afghanistan where the real fight is. Let the dickheads in Iraq figure out what they want on their own time and using their own security forces.

Chiefaroo should be along shortly to declare you a liberal Democrat, join the club.ROFL

Taco John
07-08-2007, 03:50 PM
Let's get our boys out and redeploy them to Afghanistan where the real fight is. Let the dickheads in Iraq figure out what they want on their own time and using their own security forces.



Why wait for them to go on vacation to support pulling out of Iraq if you believe that the "real" fight isn't there?

patteeu
07-09-2007, 06:27 AM
Why wait for them to go on vacation to support pulling out of Iraq if you believe that the "real" fight isn't there?

Good question.

Adept Havelock
07-09-2007, 05:02 PM
Sigh....I don't know any other country that has the American work ethic.

The "Four Tigers" come to mind.

However, you have a point. Few nations are willing to sacrifice family, personal health and development, leisure, etc. in pursuit of the corporate bottom line like the good old USA. :p

Chiefaroo should be along shortly to declare you a liberal Democrat, join the club.ROFL

:LOL:

QFT.

CHIEF4EVER
07-10-2007, 02:41 PM
Why wait for them to go on vacation to support pulling out of Iraq if you believe that the "real" fight isn't there?

It isn't so much the timetable of the 'vacation' TJ. It is the body of work (or lack thereof) on the part of the Iraqi government. I still think we did a noble thing freeing that nation from Saddam but the Iraqi government seems unwilling to take the steps necesary to obtain peace in their own land. I am simply sick and tired of waiting on them to take action to stabilize their own country. We have been more than patient and have sacrificed a helluva lot to allow them the time to do so. A vacation? Under the current circumstances? Are they freaking INSANE? If their approach to obtaining freedom is so lackadaisical as they are demonstrating then that indicates to me that our help is no longer necessary. Let those morons sort it out for themselves. Enough is enough.

There is a price to be paid for freedom, and THEY have to be the ones to ultimately pay it. We give them our help both monetarily and in boots on the ground and they take an effing vacation. Sensational. I have had it. Piss on em'.

StcChief
07-10-2007, 02:58 PM
I honestly wonder if they give a f*ck how many Americans have to die for their freedom.
No not much of the 3rd world has much respect for human life....
especially the leaders tribals heads.... 7th century mentality lives on in 21st century.

Baby Lee
07-10-2007, 03:16 PM
About EFFING time.
OK, we get it, Iraqis are savages.
You know, if there'd been someone touting the 'this is a bad idea because Iraqis are culturally incapable of civilized behavior' THAT'D be the guy who gets to say 'I told you so.'

Who'd've thunk that black folk would comport themselves better with reparations than Iraqis did with all we've given them? ROFL

http://www.jibjab.com/view/140957

Logical
07-10-2007, 04:14 PM
It isn't so much the timetable of the 'vacation' TJ. It is the body of work (or lack thereof) on the part of the Iraqi government. I still think we did a noble thing freeing that nation from Saddam but the Iraqi government seems unwilling to take the steps necesary to obtain peace in their own land. I am simply sick and tired of waiting on them to take action to stabilize their own country. We have been more than patient and have sacrificed a helluva lot to allow them the time to do so. A vacation? Under the current circumstances? Are they freaking INSANE? If their approach to obtaining freedom is so lackadaisical as they are demonstrating then that indicates to me that our help is no longer necessary. Let those morons sort it out for themselves. Enough is enough.

There is a price to be paid for freedom, and THEY have to be the ones to ultimately pay it. We give them our help both monetarily and in boots on the ground and they take an effing vacation. Sensational. I have had it. Piss on em'.

I think you and I agree, it just took you much longer to come to the same conclusion on them not stepping up and gaining their own freedom and establishing their own country.

Baby Lee
07-11-2007, 05:28 PM
OK, we get it, Iraqis are savages.
You know, if there'd been someone touting the 'this is a bad idea because Iraqis are culturally incapable of civilized behavior' THAT'D be the guy who gets to say 'I told you so.'

Who'd've thunk that black folk would comport themselves better with reparations than Iraqis did with all we've given them? ROFL

http://www.jibjab.com/view/140957
Stephen Weber on HuffPo, discuss in light of this thread

Oh, there's evil out there, acquired and developed through dehumanization and despair. But before evil there is innocence, inherent in every individual, apparent if the effort is made to discover it, triumphant if the individual is allowed to express it.
True? False?

CHIEF4EVER
07-11-2007, 05:41 PM
I think you and I agree, it just took you much longer to come to the same conclusion on them not stepping up and gaining their own freedom and establishing their own country.

Sorry Jim but it is effing bullshit. We fought for YEARS to get what we have without any help whatsoever but those people have not only their own people fighting but ours as well and their government takes a VACATION? F*ck them.

Messier
07-11-2007, 07:25 PM
Sorry Jim but it is effing bullshit. We fought for YEARS to get what we have without any help whatsoever but those people have not only their own people fighting but ours as well and their government takes a VACATION? F*ck them.


You think we had no help in gaining our Independence?

CHIEF4EVER
07-11-2007, 08:18 PM
You think we had no help in gaining our Independence?

What history have you studied?

trndobrd
07-11-2007, 08:19 PM
Sorry Jim but it is effing bullshit. We fought for YEARS to get what we have without any help whatsoever but those people have not only their own people fighting but ours as well and their government takes a VACATION? F*ck them.


You are aware that they did not take a vacation, right?

CHIEF4EVER
07-11-2007, 08:23 PM
You are aware that they did not take a vacation, right?

Obviously not, eh?

Messier
07-11-2007, 08:48 PM
What history have you studied?


The real one.

CHIEF4EVER
07-11-2007, 09:09 PM
The real one.

LMAO

Time for some factual history. http://www.historycentral.com/Revolt/battles.html

Logical
07-11-2007, 09:14 PM
Sorry Jim but it is effing bullshit. We fought for YEARS to get what we have without any help whatsoever but those people have not only their own people fighting but ours as well and their government takes a VACATION? F*ck them.Did you read the post you quoted or did you quote the wrong response. I thought we were agreeing.

CHIEF4EVER
07-11-2007, 09:37 PM
Did you read the post you quoted or did you quote the wrong response. I thought we were agreeing.

Yes Jim, we agreed. What exactly would make you think different?

Messier
07-11-2007, 09:40 PM
LMAO

Time for some factual history. http://www.historycentral.com/Revolt/battles.html

Hmmm, that's nice.

http://www.ushistory.org/march/timeline.htm

Maybe read the part titled, 1778: Valley Forge and the French Alliance.

CHIEF4EVER
07-11-2007, 09:46 PM
Hmmm, that's nice.

http://www.ushistory.org/march/timeline.htm

Maybe read the part titled, 1778: Valley Forge and the French Alliance.

Maybe show where the French did more than lip service to the cause of our liberty. :rolleyes:

You are obviously not a history major. LMAO

Messier
07-11-2007, 09:46 PM
Here's something from the Department of State.
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/ar/

Messier
07-11-2007, 09:47 PM
I like this quote.

"Unable to defeat the strong British military on their own, the American colonists required foreign assistance."

Messier
07-11-2007, 09:48 PM
Maybe show where the French did more than lip service to the cause of our liberty. :rolleyes:

You are obviously not a history major. LMAO


Are you saying they didn't fight?

CHIEF4EVER
07-11-2007, 09:51 PM
Are you saying they didn't fight?

No dumbass. I am saying they came in with naval forces in 1781 after the issue was already decided. They made an appearance in Chesapeake Bay. Other than that they did dick.

Messier
07-11-2007, 09:57 PM
No dumbass. I am saying they came in with naval forces in 1781 after the issue was already decided. They made an appearance in Chesapeake Bay. Other than that they did dick.

Poor Admiral de Grass and General Rochambeau. They will be so sad to know they had no impact. Oh, the French came in 1778, and I submit you are the dumbass.

Messier
07-11-2007, 10:00 PM
We can go on like this forever, and that would be sad, point is we weren't alone like you said.

trndobrd
07-11-2007, 10:06 PM
Baron Von Steuben ring any bells?

CHIEF4EVER
07-11-2007, 10:07 PM
We can go on like this forever, and that would be sad, point is we weren't alone like you said.

Yes, dumbass, we were. The issue was decided by Americans long before the French decided it was to their advantage to make an appearance. It was decided here: http://www.historycentral.com/Revolt/Saratoga.html

Let me know if you want another history lesson young'un.

CHIEF4EVER
07-11-2007, 10:10 PM
Baron Von Steuben ring any bells?

Von Steuben was a Prussian officer that helped to train the Continental Army. Where were the Prussian troops? Oh, that's right, there weren't any. Plenty of troops from Hessen though......on the other side.

Messier
07-11-2007, 10:13 PM
Yes, dumbass, we were. The issue was decided by Americans long before the French decided it was to their advantage to make an appearance. It was decided here: http://www.historycentral.com/Revolt/Saratoga.html

Let me know if you want another history lesson young'un.


That's cute!

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/ar/14312.htm

Now, run along to bed tiger.

CHIEF4EVER
07-11-2007, 10:18 PM
That's cute!

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/ar/14312.htm

Now, run along to bed tiger.

You don't get it do you? THE ISSUE WAS ALREADY DECIDED AT SARATOGA. While it was nice of the the Froggies to send troops and Navy when they finally got around to it, the war was already pretty much over. Now, run along to bed tiger.

CHIEF4EVER
07-11-2007, 10:22 PM
Oh, and to alleviate any doubt in your tiny mind......

Burgoyne felt he had no option but to press on to Albany. The American army, however, was blocking his way at Bemis Heights. The British made two attempts to break through American defenses, but failed. After the second attempt, they withdrew to Saratoga, where they were surrounded by American troops. The British had no choice but to surrender which they did on October 13, 1777. One quarter of the British forces in North America thus surrendered, and, while many battles were yet to be fought, American Independence was assured.

Messier
07-11-2007, 10:42 PM
http://www.angelfire.com/md2/Ldotvets/Revolution/Saratoga.html

Yes, very important, but you make it sound like the rest of the war was an afterthought. You say France did nothing, I say they were integral to the success of the war. Oh Well.

trndobrd
07-12-2007, 07:28 AM
Von Steuben was a Prussian officer that helped to train the Continental Army. Where were the Prussian troops? Oh, that's right, there weren't any. Plenty of troops from Hessen though......on the other side.


Von Steuben was sent at the behest of the French. He turned a rabble of colonials into an Army. He is the Father of US Army training. The structure he implemented Company, Battalion, BDE is still used today. When he arrived the Continental Army still had no idea about field sanitation. No latrines in the camps, just whatever, wherever. Von Steuben had latrines placed downhill from encampments, field kitchens placed on the opposite side, uphill. Without him, the Continental Army probably would have died off from disease long before the end of the war.

trndobrd
07-12-2007, 07:42 AM
http://www.angelfire.com/md2/Ldotvets/Revolution/Saratoga.html

Yes, very important, but you make it sound like the rest of the war was an afterthought. You say France did nothing, I say they were integral to the success of the war. Oh Well.


The American War of Independence was just a small sideshow in a broader world war between Britain and France, Spain and the Netherlands. The British could have easily continued the war in America if they were not trying to defend all their other colonies at the same time.

StcChief
07-12-2007, 09:42 AM
The American War of Independence was just a small sideshow in a broader world war between Britain and France, Spain and the Netherlands. The British could have easily continued the war in America if they were not trying to defend all their other colonies at the same time.
saddened by the beginning of the end of the sun never sets on the british empire. :deevee: /sarcasm

Adept Havelock
07-12-2007, 10:00 AM
saddened by the beginning of the end of the sun never sets on the british empire. :deevee:


Meh, the sun sets on every empire. Eventually.

trndobrd
07-12-2007, 10:59 AM
saddened by the beginning of the end of the sun never sets on the british empire. :deevee: /sarcasm

Actually, the Brits did the smart thing and let the American colonies go and were able to expand their empire elsewhere. The golden age of the British Emprie really started after American independence and ran until the First World War.

CHIEF4EVER
07-13-2007, 06:52 PM
Von Steuben was sent at the behest of the French. He turned a rabble of colonials into an Army. He is the Father of US Army training. The structure he implemented Company, Battalion, BDE is still used today. When he arrived the Continental Army still had no idea about field sanitation. No latrines in the camps, just whatever, wherever. Von Steuben had latrines placed downhill from encampments, field kitchens placed on the opposite side, uphill. Without him, the Continental Army probably would have died off from disease long before the end of the war.

I realize that. Von Steuben wrote the Blue Book which was the first Drill and Ceremonies manual. Most of the same drills are in use today in the FM 22-5.

CHIEF4EVER
07-13-2007, 06:54 PM
Messier, I want to publicly apologize for being a dick during our debate. I shouldn't have called you a dumbass for no good reason. That was out of line.

Messier
07-13-2007, 07:22 PM
Messier, I want to publicly apologize for being a dick during our debate. I shouldn't have called you a dumbass for no good reason. That was out of line.


Apology accepted. I actually had fun with that. I'm sorry if I said anything out of line.

Ugly Duck
07-14-2007, 07:44 PM
You are aware that they did not take a vacation, right?

It was postponed till August. Comin up in just a coupla weeks here.

Our men bleeding in the Iraqi dirt in 130F temperatures, dying in order to give the Iraqi leaders time to work out reconciliation. Meanwhile, Iraqi leaders will be sipping iced tea by their pools for a month as they read about American casualties in the newspaper.

Actually the Iraqi leaders may be playing to their constituency by having Americans bleed to death in the dirt every day, seeing as how the majority of their constituents support the killing of Americans. They just might gain support by taking a vacation as our boyz get their limbs blown off and suffer horrendous burns. Could be a good political move....

Logical
07-14-2007, 07:47 PM
It was postponed till August. Comin up in just a coupla weeks here.

Our men bleeding in the Iraqi dirt in 130F temperatures, dying in order to give the Iraqi leaders time to work out reconciliation. Meanwhile, Iraqi leaders will be sipping iced tea by their pools for a month as they read about American casualties in the newspaper.

Actually the Iraqi leaders may be playing to their constituency by having Americans bleed to death in the dirt every day, seeing as how the majority of their constituents support the killing of Americans. They just might gain support by taking a vacation as our boyz get their limbs blown off and suffer horrendous burns. Could be a good political move....

Ouch the awful reality is like a slap in the face, I hope the 25%ers are listening.

StcChief
07-14-2007, 09:53 PM
Actually, the Brits did the smart thing and let the American colonies go and were able to expand their empire elsewhere. The golden age of the British Emprie really started after American independence and ran until the First World War.
and Look where they are now on their little island.

patteeu
07-15-2007, 06:36 AM
It was postponed till August. Comin up in just a coupla weeks here.

Our men bleeding in the Iraqi dirt in 130F temperatures, dying in order to give the Iraqi leaders time to work out reconciliation. Meanwhile, Iraqi leaders will be sipping iced tea by their pools for a month as they read about American casualties in the newspaper.

Actually the Iraqi leaders may be playing to their constituency by having Americans bleed to death in the dirt every day, seeing as how the majority of their constituents support the killing of Americans. They just might gain support by taking a vacation as our boyz get their limbs blown off and suffer horrendous burns. Could be a good political move....

Are you auditioning for the role as this war's Tokyo Rose?

StcChief
07-15-2007, 10:23 AM
Are you auditioning for the role as this war's Tokyo Rose?
That's about right. UD staring as the Iraqi rose.

Adept Havelock
07-15-2007, 10:35 AM
Are you auditioning for the role as this war's Tokyo Rose?


Perhaps, but you're doing an excellent job as this war's Dr. Pangloss.

patteeu
07-15-2007, 11:03 AM
Perhaps, but you're doing an excellent job as this war's Dr. Pangloss.

I had to look that up. I assume you mean I'm optimistic beyond what is justified by the "reality"?

Adept Havelock
07-15-2007, 11:19 AM
I had to look that up. I assume you mean I'm optimistic beyond what is justified by the "reality"?

If the shoe fits...

Frankly, were I you, I'd assume it meant that you haven't read nearly enough Voltaire.

That's OK. From the policies you keep advocating it's clear you've not read your Kipling either. :p

Ugly Duck
07-15-2007, 12:28 PM
I assume you mean I'm optimistic beyond what is justified by the "reality"?

Bingo. If the Iraqis had any desire to have the pluralistic democracy that we are trying to give them, they'd have "stood up" long ago. Its an inconvenient truth, but a majority of the populace say its acceptable to kill Americans and are fixin to fight a civil war instead of going along with our plans for reconciliation. Sunni will not accept Shia majority rule. What the neocons say they are trying to achieve just ain't a'gonna happen.

Logical
07-15-2007, 02:21 PM
Bingo. If the Iraqis had any desire to have the pluralistic democracy that we are trying to give them, they'd have "stood up" long ago. Its an inconvenient truth, but a majority of the populace say its acceptable to kill Americans and are fixin to fight a civil war instead of going along with our plans for reconciliation. Sunni will not accept Shia majority rule. What the neocons say they are trying to achieve just ain't a'gonna happen.Many of us realized this a long time ago, I believe I started a thread on it.