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Hydrae
07-09-2007, 09:39 AM
You find yourself in the position of standing before Congress with the President in attendance. You have been selected to represent the will of the people of this great country because the people have lost confidence that it is being represented by the talking heads on Capital Hill. You have a list of demands that have been given to you to present to the powers that be.

The question is, what are those demands? If you could change 5-10 things, what would they be? You need to try to remain brief but detailed. "Get rid of the Income Tax" doesn't work, you need to present a solution as well. "Replace the income tax with a National sales tax" is acceptable.

So, what say you? You have the chance to make serious changes here, what will you do with this new found power?

Hydrae
07-09-2007, 10:20 AM
Ok, I will get things going here then...

Get rid of the income tax (repeal the 16th amendment) and replace it with a national sales tax! :)

Get out of Iraq ASAP leaving a minimal force behind to continue the training of the Iraqi police and military forces.

Remove national mandates about such things as marijuana laws and abortion from the federal levels, these need to be state to state issues.

Put our monetary system back in the hands of the government and abolish the Federal Reserve.

Remove Welfare completely in the next 5 years. Food stamps and WIC can stay.

Nationalized health with a focus on preventative measures. This includes prescription drugs.

One area I am not going to touch is immigration. I am still not sure where I stand on this and I know that my basic feelings on the subject are not the most popular in that I don't see the big deal. Clear up the issues of how taxes are paid and what that money is spent on and I think the complaints will become much quieter. Most people would disagree with me on this though so I will not include it in my mandate.

Planetman
07-09-2007, 10:42 AM
Remove national mandates about such things as marijuana laws and abortion from the federal levels, these need to be state to state issues.
There are people starving in the streets of this country, homeless, jobs are being shipped over seas, gas prices are through the roof and the #3 thing you worry about is pot smokers?

Logical
07-09-2007, 10:58 AM
Ok, I will get things going here then...

Get rid of the income tax (repeal the 16th amendment) and replace it with a national sales tax! :)
I am ok with this one

Get out of Iraq ASAP leaving a minimal force behind to continue the training of the Iraqi police and military forces.a
Amen brother preach it.

Remove national mandates about such things as marijuana laws and abortion from the federal levels, these need to be state to state issues.
Another good one.

Put our monetary system back in the hands of the government and abolish the Federal Reserve.
Hell no leave it alone this is the only part of our system that really works.

Remove Welfare completely in the next 5 years. Food stamps and WIC can stay.
I would have to modify this to take it away from illegal alien, but leave it in in place for citizen we just have to cap it for total value allowed.

Nationalized health with a focus on preventative measures. This includes prescription drugs.
I think a mandatory insurance program for all citizens should be put in place with price controls on health care.

One area I am not going to touch is immigration. I am still not sure where I stand on this and I know that my basic feelings on the subject are not the most popular in that I don't see the big deal. Clear up the issues of how taxes are paid and what that money is spent on and I think the complaints will become much quieter. Most people would disagree with me on this though so I will not include it in my mandate.
Ditto

chagrin
07-09-2007, 11:02 AM
There are people starving in the streets of this country, homeless, jobs are being shipped over seas, gas prices are through the roof and the #3 thing you worry about is pot smokers?

"uh, yeah, cough cough, hiccup - freedom of choice dude, don't be a flatliner man...hemp rules!"

Hydrae
07-09-2007, 11:04 AM
There are people starving in the streets of this country, homeless, jobs are being shipped over seas, gas prices are through the roof and the #3 thing you worry about is pot smokers?


So, what are your mandates then? I'm trying to get some ideas of the big issues to people. This is not the only place I am looking for these thoughts but certainly a group I am interested in hearing from.

And no, it is really not about pot smokers (of which I am one, I will be honest on that). It is about states rights and putting the power back at the state level rather than a national level. Kind of like the Civil War, ya know? ;)

KC Dan
07-09-2007, 11:22 AM
1) Two term limit for all House/Senate congressmen to prevent cronyism
2) Limitation of 3 week/year vacation for all congressmen/President
3) All earmark requests divulged to public 90 days prior to starting budget bill debates and ZERO additions beyond 90 day limit
4) Goodbye Federal Income Tax -> Hello National Sales Tax

BucEyedPea
07-09-2007, 11:32 AM
Throwing everyone out of office from congress up to the WH.
Have new elections only after each passes an exam on the Constitution.
Anyone scoring less than 80% is disqualified from office permanently.

Guillotine those who get less than 70%. Get the tumbrells out folks.

Hear that HogFarmer....you must have a bunch....since they're used for carrying dung.

Pitt Gorilla
07-09-2007, 11:48 AM
Six year term limit on Supreme court.

No secret service protection after 4 years removed from Presidency.

No televised campaign ads. (yes, I'm restricting free speech.)

Federal spending = federal income, although a rainy-day fund could be established for well-documented emergencies.

Outlaw RVs. Get out of my way.

No automatic citizenship for anyone (after age 14). You must pass a series of tests to gain US citizenship.

The Super Bowl should be played in a cold-weather, outdoor stadium once every 3 years. Deal with it, NFL.

Hydrae
07-09-2007, 11:48 AM
1) Two term limit for all House/Senate congressmen to prevent cronyism
2) Limitation of 3 week/year vacation for all congressmen/President
3) All earmark requests divulged to public 90 days prior to starting budget bill debates and ZERO additions beyond 90 day limit
4) Goodbye Federal Income Tax -> Hello National Sales Tax


Can we change the bolded one to read that Congress can only be in session 2-3 weeks a year? This will limit the damage they can do with new laws all the time. The rest of the time they can be working with their constituents and remain in touch with the people they are supposed to represent.

KC Dan
07-09-2007, 11:52 AM
Can we change the bolded one to read that Congress can only be in session 2-3 weeks a year? This will limit the damage they can do with new laws all the time. The rest of the time they can be working with their constituents and remain in touch with the people they are supposed to represent.
No, I 'll be damned if they get a year long vacation at our expense. However, I am very open to coming up with some metric to demand actual work on legislative activities rather than the normal witchhunts that have been going on for 20 years. But, there should be a mandate that they hold X-number of regular town hall meetings with their constituents that cannot be blown off.

Hydrae
07-09-2007, 11:54 AM
No, I 'll be damned if they get a year long vacation at our expense. However, I am very open to coming up with some metric to demand actual work on legislative activities rather than the normal witchhunts that have been going on for 20 years. But, there should be a mandate that they hold X-number of regular town hall meetings with their constituents that cannot be blown off.


Ok, now we are getting somewhere. I like the town hall concept, that is a good one. That alone would make for some changes I would hope.

Hydrae
07-09-2007, 11:55 AM
Six year term limit on Supreme court.

No secret service protection after 4 years removed from Presidency.

No televised campaign ads. (yes, I'm restricting free speech.)

Federal spending = federal income, although a rainy-day fund could be established for well-documented emergencies.

Outlaw RVs. Get out of my way.

No automatic citizenship for anyone (after age 14). You must pass a series of tests to gain US citizenship.

The Super Bowl should be played in a cold-weather, outdoor stadium once every 3 years. Deal with it, NFL.


Now we're talking! :D

noa
07-09-2007, 01:28 PM
Just some quick ideas. I'm sure if I had more time, I'd come up with better suggestions, but here's a start.

1) Ban all lobbyist donations to politicians
2) Enact law so that Members of Congress must balance out each minute spent with a lobbyist with a minute spent with an actual constituent
3) Enact 8 year term limits for Reps and 12 year term limit for Senators
4) Abolish the electoral college
5) Change the primary system to a set alternating regional primaries. For example, one presidential election would have the first primaries in the Northeast. Then the next one would have the first primaries in the Southeast. Continue across the country and start over.
6) Replace income tax with consumption tax
7) Make school advancement more difficult so a majority of our high school graduates can actually find other countries on a map and understand how the rest of the world works. This sounds snobby, but I think its important for Americans to become more worldly as a whole if we want to be a hegemon without being resented by much of the world. I would also ban intelligent design from schools, and this includes "teaching the controversy."
8) End this ridiculous war on drugs. Make punishments stiffer for people who drive while on drugs, and especially for those who harm others while on drugs.
9) Find more alternatives to jail...its too expensive and counterproductive to imprison this high a percentage of our population
10) Get rid of federal sentencing guidelines

KC Dan
07-09-2007, 01:55 PM
Just some quick ideas. I'm sure if I had more time, I'd come up with better suggestions, but here's a start.

1) Ban all lobbyist donations to politicians
2) Enact law so that Members of Congress must balance out each minute spent with a lobbyist with a minute spent with an actual constituent
3) Enact 8 year term limits for Reps and 12 year term limit for Senators
4) Abolish the electoral college
5) Change the primary system to a set alternating regional primaries. For example, one presidential election would have the first primaries in the Northeast. Then the next one would have the first primaries in the Southeast. Continue across the country and start over.
6) Replace income tax with consumption tax
7) Make school advancement more difficult so a majority of our high school graduates can actually find other countries on a map and understand how the rest of the world works. This sounds snobby, but I think its important for Americans to become more worldly as a whole if we want to be a hegemon without being resented by much of the world. I would also ban intelligent design from schools, and this includes "teaching the controversy."
8) End this ridiculous war on drugs. Make punishments stiffer for people who drive while on drugs, and especially for those who harm others while on drugs.
9) Find more alternatives to jail...its too expensive and counterproductive to imprison this high a percentage of our population
10) Get rid of federal sentencing guidelines
1) agreed
2) agreed
3) I said earlier two terms each, I think 8yrs total for both is better
4) NO! If that were the case Kalifornia and New York would decide every election. Totally disagree.
5) agreed, I like this
6) Not bad and would be more equitable than the National Sales tax idea.
7) AGREED!
8) must think about this one as I think most drug laws I agree with. Not all but most
9) Bullets are cheap...
10) nah

Logical
07-09-2007, 02:32 PM
Six year term limit on Supreme court.

No secret service protection after 4 years removed from Presidency.

No televised campaign ads. (yes, I'm restricting free speech.)

Federal spending = federal income, although a rainy-day fund could be established for well-documented emergencies.

Outlaw RVs. Get out of my way.

No automatic citizenship for anyone (after age 14). You must pass a series of tests to gain US citizenship.

The Super Bowl should be played in a cold-weather, outdoor stadium once every 3 years. Deal with it, NFL.Holy cow you are more radical than BEP almost

Hydrae
07-10-2007, 02:40 PM
Wow, I thought I had a good idea for a thread. Guess I will just go back to my usual drive-by posting and leave the thread creation to the pros. :sulk:

BucEyedPea
07-10-2007, 03:01 PM
Holy cow you are more radical than BEP almost
And yet I'm only as radical as our Founding Fathers. Imagine that you Tory Traitor. ;)

Logical
07-10-2007, 03:26 PM
Throwing everyone out of office from congress up to the WH.
Have new elections only after each passes an exam on the Constitution.
Anyone scoring less than 80% is disqualified from office permanently.

Guillotine those who get less than 70%. Get the tumbrells out folks.

Hear that HogFarmer....you must have a bunch....since they're used for carrying dung.

BEP you telling me the founding fathers were guillotining those who got less than 70% and that those running for office all took tests on the Constitution? I really doubt it.

This is why I called you radical.

CHIEF4EVER
07-10-2007, 03:30 PM
1) Term limits for Representatives of 6 years total and Senators of 12 years total.

2) Ban on lobbyists.

3) Replace Income tax with consumption tax.

4) Provision for a national referendum on a bill if a bill fails to pass Congress more than 2 times. (Not an absolute demand at this point....I like the basic idea of this but the actual implementation would need to be sorted out).

5) NO WARS OR DEPLOYMENTS OF MILITARY FORCE IN COMBAT WITHOUT A 2/3 MAJORITY IN CONGRESS. PERIOD. President still the Commander in Chief with all decision making residing with him for approved wars and conflicts.

6) No deficit spending. What the Fed takes in, they can spend....NO MORE.

7) A mandatory debt reduction payment as part of every fiscal budget. One that equals 1/50th of total outstanding debt. We are out of debt within the lifetime of the next generation.

8) Drastic Welfare reform. If a person is able bodied, they are to report to their local courthouse every day at 8 a.m. They will be put to work from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. with a 1 hour lunch break. Child care will be provided. Failure to show up = no welfare money for the week. Simultaneously, job training and job placement assistance will be provided. Failure to take a job that is offered for which one is qualified (same goes for job training) results in being cut off from all welfare money.

9) SECURE THE EFFING BORDERS.

10) 'Anchor baby' status no longer acceptable for determination of citizenship. Illegals receive no social help of any kind. Any illegal found and arrested will be immediately deported. Employers found hiring illegals will be penalized with mandantory fines AND jail time.

BucEyedPea
07-10-2007, 03:38 PM
BEP you telling me the founding fathers were guillotining those who got less than 70% and that those running for office all took tests on the Constitution? I really doubt it.

This is why I called you radical.
ROFL Oh is that what you meant! That was just a joke. I do that sometimes.

Sully
07-10-2007, 04:14 PM
1) Term limits for Representatives of 6 years total and Senators of 12 years total.

2) Ban on lobbyists.

3) Replace Income tax with consumption tax.

4) Provision for a national referendum on a bill if a bill fails to pass Congress more than 2 times. (Not an absolute demand at this point....I like the basic idea of this but the actual implementation would need to be sorted out).

5) NO WARS OR DEPLOYMENTS OF MILITARY FORCE IN COMBAT WITHOUT A 2/3 MAJORITY IN CONGRESS. PERIOD. President still the Commander in Chief with all decision making residing with him for approved wars and conflicts.

6) No deficit spending. What the Fed takes in, they can spend....NO MORE.

7) A mandatory debt reduction payment as part of every fiscal budget. One that equals 1/50th of total outstanding debt. We are out of debt within the lifetime of the next generation.

8) Drastic Welfare reform. If a person is able bodied, they are to report to their local courthouse every day at 8 a.m. They will be put to work from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. with a 1 hour lunch break. Child care will be provided. Failure to show up = no welfare money for the week. Simultaneously, job training and job placement assistance will be provided. Failure to take a job that is offered for which one is qualified (same goes for job training) results in being cut off from all welfare money.


With the exception to number 3, simply because I haven't studied enough the effects of this, I agree 100% with all these quoted, especially the welfare reform idea ... and I'm a hardcore liberal.

Logical
07-10-2007, 04:18 PM
1) Term limits for Representatives of 6 years total and Senators of 12 years total.

2) Ban on lobbyists.

3) Replace Income tax with consumption tax.

4) Provision for a national referendum on a bill if a bill fails to pass Congress more than 2 times. (Not an absolute demand at this point....I like the basic idea of this but the actual implementation would need to be sorted out).

5) NO WARS OR DEPLOYMENTS OF MILITARY FORCE IN COMBAT WITHOUT A 2/3 MAJORITY IN CONGRESS. PERIOD. President still the Commander in Chief with all decision making residing with him for approved wars and conflicts.

6) No deficit spending. What the Fed takes in, they can spend....NO MORE.

7) A mandatory debt reduction payment as part of every fiscal budget. One that equals 1/50th of total outstanding debt. We are out of debt within the lifetime of the next generation.

8) Drastic Welfare reform. If a person is able bodied, they are to report to their local courthouse every day at 8 a.m. They will be put to work from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. with a 1 hour lunch break. Child care will be provided. Failure to show up = no welfare money for the week. Simultaneously, job training and job placement assistance will be provided. Failure to take a job that is offered for which one is qualified (same goes for job training) results in being cut off from all welfare money.

9) SECURE THE EFFING BORDERS.

10) 'Anchor baby' status no longer acceptable for determination of citizenship. Illegals receive no social help of any kind. Any illegal found and arrested will be immediately deported. Employers found hiring illegals will be penalized with mandantory fines AND jail time.

I like most of this, I think 8 is too strict but fundamenetally sound, and I don't think 9 is actually possible and is merely a nice catch phrase.

CHIEF4EVER
07-10-2007, 05:08 PM
With the exception to number 3, simply because I haven't studied enough the effects of this, I agree 100% with all these quoted, especially the welfare reform idea ... and I'm a hardcore liberal.

Oh shit. Does this mean that I have become a liberal or does it mean that you and I and Jim want basically the same thing without all the partisan bullshit? A conservative, a moderate and a liberal wanting the same things.....I guess this means we are *GASP* grass roots Americans! :)

Adept Havelock
07-10-2007, 05:34 PM
1) Term limits for Representatives of 6 years total and Senators of 12 years total.

2) Ban on lobbyists.

3) Replace Income tax with consumption tax.

4) Provision for a national referendum on a bill if a bill fails to pass Congress more than 2 times. (Not an absolute demand at this point....I like the basic idea of this but the actual implementation would need to be sorted out).

5) NO WARS OR DEPLOYMENTS OF MILITARY FORCE IN COMBAT WITHOUT A 2/3 MAJORITY IN CONGRESS. PERIOD. President still the Commander in Chief with all decision making residing with him for approved wars and conflicts.

6) No deficit spending. What the Fed takes in, they can spend....NO MORE.

7) A mandatory debt reduction payment as part of every fiscal budget. One that equals 1/50th of total outstanding debt. We are out of debt within the lifetime of the next generation.

8) Drastic Welfare reform. If a person is able bodied, they are to report to their local courthouse every day at 8 a.m. They will be put to work from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. with a 1 hour lunch break. Child care will be provided. Failure to show up = no welfare money for the week. Simultaneously, job training and job placement assistance will be provided. Failure to take a job that is offered for which one is qualified (same goes for job training) results in being cut off from all welfare money.

9) SECURE THE EFFING BORDERS.

10) 'Anchor baby' status no longer acceptable for determination of citizenship. Illegals receive no social help of any kind. Any illegal found and arrested will be immediately deported. Employers found hiring illegals will be penalized with mandantory fines AND jail time.

Though we come at this world from radically different perspectives, I find myself in strong agreement with just about the entire list. Especially # 7. I think this proves wherever you are on the political/social spectrum...common sense is common sense. Shame it's seemingly damn uncommon today.

Oh shit. Does this mean that I have become a liberal or does it mean that you and I and Jim want basically the same thing without all the partisan bullshit? A conservative, a moderate and a liberal wanting the same things.....I guess this means we are *GASP* grass roots Americans! :)

QFT.



Good calls, Chief4ever. :clap:

Hydrae
07-10-2007, 06:10 PM
Though we come at this world from radically different perspectives, I find myself in strong agreement with just about the entire list. Especially # 7. I think this proves wherever you are on the political/social spectrum...common sense is common sense. Shame it's seemingly damn uncommon today.



QFT.



Good calls, Chief4ever. :clap:


I thought we might be amazed at the common ground if we stop screaming party lines and actually talked about the issues. The only time this becomes a problem is when it comes to the details of what something should look like or the manner of getting there. But generally most people can agree on the big picture and right now most everyone agrees that it is an ugly picture due to the crap that has accumulated on it since it was painted in 1776.

CHIEF4EVER
07-10-2007, 06:54 PM
I thought we might be amazed at the common ground if we stop screaming party lines and actually talked about the issues. The only time this becomes a problem is when it comes to the details of what something should look like or the manner of getting there. But generally most people can agree on the big picture and right now most everyone agrees that it is an ugly picture due to the crap that has accumulated on it since it was painted in 1776.

I agree. Amazing innit?

Logical
07-10-2007, 07:08 PM
Oh shit. Does this mean that I have become a liberal or does it mean that you and I and Jim want basically the same thing without all the partisan bullshit? A conservative, a moderate and a liberal wanting the same things.....I guess this means we are *GASP* grass roots Americans! :)I think it is two moderates and a conservative. I will leave it to you to guess who is which.:D

recxjake
07-10-2007, 07:15 PM
1. I don't think the consumption tax is viable. I think a flat tax would much easier to do. I'd hate to go to the grocery store and have to pay 3 dollars for milke, puls 1.50 in taxes. I think the transition would be very hard for our country. Steve Forbes plan in 99 when he was running for President is viable. We need a better tax system.

2. I would like to see the health care system change from employee to private based insurance. I don't think insurance should be higher depending on what state you live in. The # 1 reason medical expenses are going up is due to the 15% of america that doesn't pay their bills. The other 85% of Americans that have insurance have to pay their own bills, and the bills of others that don't pay. I believe that if you make health insurance like "esurance" for cars where you have major compeition it will create a great environment for the consumer to purchase affordable health care.

3. Secure the border... but actually do it. I think the fence is just one step. I think a national id card for guest workers is the best idea for keeping track of non citizens in this country. I would also add a two strikes your out policy. This is an important issue, I hope it gets worked out.

4. Fix Social Security! It's just getting more expensive each day we don't do something about it. For my generation the Bush plan would have been great. Rasing taxes and/or rasing the age you can get isn't the right solution.

5. If I was President Bush, I would go on live national tv tonight with every channel in American tuned into it and every radio station too. I would call for immediate help from Germany, France, Russia, China more help from Great Britain, Japan and Australia in Iraq. I would put together a multi nation force into Iraq and divide it up like we divided Kosovo and Yugoslovia back in the 90's. Cut into a pie and get Iraq stabilized. The long term effects of Iraq in Chaos is not in Americas intrest and what we are doing now isn't working. We need the worlds help to fix this crisis.

If I got all this done, I'd be pretty happy!

Pitt Gorilla
07-10-2007, 07:17 PM
I agree. Amazing innit?Agreement isn't good business for the parties.

CHIEF4EVER
07-10-2007, 07:25 PM
Agreement isn't good business for the parties.

Yeah. I mean why should the will of the people get in the way of partisan polotics? :shake:

Logical
07-10-2007, 07:28 PM
...
2. I would like to see the health care system change from employee to private based insurance. I don't think insurance should be higher depending on what state you live in. The # 1 reason medical expenses are going up is due to the 15% of america that doesn't pay their bills. The other 85% of Americans that have insurance have to pay their own bills, and the bills of others that don't pay. I believe that if you make health insurance like "esurance" for cars where you have major compeition it will create a great environment for the consumer to purchase affordable health care.

...esurance is not the answer you think it is, it is actually more expensive for me than my Allstate. 4 cars with Allstate $1200 with esurance the quote was $1400 great deal recxjake!!!:rolleyes:

Logical
07-10-2007, 07:29 PM
Yeah. I mean why should the will of the people get in the way of partisan polotics? :shake:I think you missed his sarcasm.

recxjake
07-10-2007, 07:29 PM
...esurance is not the answer you think it is, it is actually more expensive for me than my Allstate. 4 cars with Allstate $1200 with esurance the quote was $1400 great deal recxjake!!!:rolleyes:






It's much cheaper for me. You also get 10% off when you pay it all up front.

dirk digler
07-10-2007, 07:31 PM
1) Term limits for Representatives of 6 years total and Senators of 12 years total.

2) Ban on lobbyists.

3) Replace Income tax with consumption tax.

4) Provision for a national referendum on a bill if a bill fails to pass Congress more than 2 times. (Not an absolute demand at this point....I like the basic idea of this but the actual implementation would need to be sorted out).

5) NO WARS OR DEPLOYMENTS OF MILITARY FORCE IN COMBAT WITHOUT A 2/3 MAJORITY IN CONGRESS. PERIOD. President still the Commander in Chief with all decision making residing with him for approved wars and conflicts.

6) No deficit spending. What the Fed takes in, they can spend....NO MORE.

7) A mandatory debt reduction payment as part of every fiscal budget. One that equals 1/50th of total outstanding debt. We are out of debt within the lifetime of the next generation.

8) Drastic Welfare reform. If a person is able bodied, they are to report to their local courthouse every day at 8 a.m. They will be put to work from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. with a 1 hour lunch break. Child care will be provided. Failure to show up = no welfare money for the week. Simultaneously, job training and job placement assistance will be provided. Failure to take a job that is offered for which one is qualified (same goes for job training) results in being cut off from all welfare money.

9) SECURE THE EFFING BORDERS.

10) 'Anchor baby' status no longer acceptable for determination of citizenship. Illegals receive no social help of any kind. Any illegal found and arrested will be immediately deported. Employers found hiring illegals will be penalized with mandantory fines AND jail time.

100% agree on everything

CHIEF4EVER
07-10-2007, 07:31 PM
I think you missed his sarcasm.

Nah, I caught it Jim. I tried to match it........unsuccesfully. :doh!:

Logical
07-10-2007, 07:34 PM
It's much cheaper for me. You also get 10% off when you pay it all up front.Even with the 10% off I would still pay $60 less for Allstate. That is no bargain

recxjake
07-10-2007, 07:35 PM
Even with the 10% off I would still pay $60 less for Allstate. That is no bargain

Great, I don't give a shit about you, for me, it's cheaper!

My point is that market based solutions for healthcare will be much better then the Govt trying to fix it.

Logical
07-10-2007, 07:38 PM
Great, I don't give a shit about you, for me, it's cheaper!

My point is that market based solutions for healthcare will be much better then the Govt trying to fix it.You are proving this because you feel esurance is better for you, you have no proof, no real logic. You might be right but you are just guessing.

My point was your proof that market based insurance was better was a bogus example.

recxjake
07-10-2007, 07:40 PM
You are proving this because you feel esurance is better for you, you have no proof, no real logic. You might be right but you are just guessing.

I just picked esurance out! I don't give a shit about esurance.... my point is competition lowers prices.

Hydrae
07-10-2007, 07:43 PM
I am happy that you like insurance companies. I think they are part of the problems we have, not the solutions.

Adept Havelock
07-10-2007, 07:48 PM
I am happy that you like insurance companies. I think they are part of the problems we have, not the solutions.


I'm inclined to agree. The HMO/Insurance bureaucracy, like any bureaucracy is now entrenched and has a strong self-interest in maintaining the status quo, and their own profits that result from it. They have become part of the problem.

With their lobbying power, I'm not anticipating many changes. :banghead:

recxjake
07-10-2007, 07:51 PM
The goverment does not equal solutions.

Logical
07-10-2007, 07:53 PM
I just picked esurance out! I don't give a shit about esurance.... my point is competition lowers prices.

Prove it to me, I want statistics that show private insurance paid for healthcare is cheaper than say European government provided healthcare.

Logical
07-10-2007, 07:55 PM
I'm inclined to agree. The HMO/Insurance bureaucracy, like any bureaucracy is now entrenched and has a strong self-interest in maintaining the status quo, and their own profits that result from it. They have become part of the problem.

With their lobbying power, I'm not anticipating many changes. :banghead:Exactly, when recxjake joins the realworld someday he will gain an appreciation for the hard facts of life.

Adept Havelock
07-10-2007, 08:03 PM
Exactly, when recxjake joins the realworld someday he will gain an appreciation for the hard facts of life.


I'm not so sure. He doesn't seem to be the type that MTV picks for their programming. For starters, he's basically literate.

Logical
07-10-2007, 08:05 PM
I'm not so sure. He doesn't seem to be the type that MTV picks for their programming. For starters, he's basically literate.ROFL Real World I get it! ....ROFL

recxjake
07-10-2007, 08:07 PM
Exactly, when recxjake joins the realworld someday he will gain an appreciation for the hard facts of life.

Well I work 7 days a week, pay for almost everything on my own and appreciate a good deal. But I don't appreaciate the hard facts of life?

I don't understand how you think having the goverment fix health care is the right solution.

BucEyedPea
07-10-2007, 08:08 PM
1. I don't think the consumption tax is viable. I think a flat tax would much easier to do. I'd hate to go to the grocery store and have to pay 3 dollars for milke, puls 1.50 in taxes. I think the transition would be very hard for our country. Steve Forbes plan in 99 when he was running for President is viable. We need a better tax system.

Ahhhh! You are definitely a Rudy-man all-the-way rex because this is Rudy's position as well. I am personally acquainted with one of the top executives of the FairTax. I just bumped into him a few weeks ago at a play. I asked which candidates were for it. Believe it or not, bI was frankly surprised that Rudy was NOT for it but for the flat tax and John Edwards was for it.

I asked him why? His pov of view is that Rudy has misinformation on it and doesn't really understand it. That he needed to be more educated on the matter.

The bad thing about the flat tax is that it keeps the IRS intact. This is nothing but an abusive agency which needs to go. Besides this type of agency, as well income tax witholding, is incompatible with liberty.

Lastly Forbes, is a NeoCon....and I knew these dudes had gotten to him on the WoT, but I didn't know they had on taxes. So he's in their orbit....which is more liberal than I care for.

recxjake
07-10-2007, 08:12 PM
Ahhhh! You are definitely a Rudy-man all-the-way rex because this is Rudy's position as well. I am personally acquainted with one of the top executives of the FairTax. I just bumped into him a few weeks ago at a play. I asked which candidates were for it. Believe it or not, bI was frankly surprised that Rudy was NOT for it but for the flat tax and John Edwards was for it.

I asked him why? His pov of view is that Rudy has misinformation on it and doesn't really understand it. That he needed to be more educated on the matter.

The bad thing about the flat tax is that it keeps the IRS intact. This is nothing but an abusive agency which needs to go. Besides this type of agency, as well income tax witholding, is incompatible with liberty.

Lastly Forbes, is a NeoCon....and I knew these dudes had gotten to him on the WoT, but I didn't know they had on taxes. So he's in their orbit....which is more liberal than I care for.

Rudy isn't for the flat or fair tax... he wants to simplifiy the current system and cut out taxes like the death tax.

Adept Havelock
07-10-2007, 08:25 PM
Rudy isn't for the flat or fair tax... he wants to simplifiy the current system and cut out taxes like the death tax.


Please point me to the statute where someone is taxed for the act of dying. Last time I checked, the tax was on the transfer of wealth. :shrug:

Or you could admit it's just another empty little political label like "Progressive" taxation.

Logical
07-10-2007, 08:29 PM
Please point me to the statute where someone is taxed for the act of dying. Last time I checked, the tax was on the transfer of wealth. :shrug:

Or you could admit it's just another empty little political label like "Progressive" taxation.Ouch, and I thought I was going to die without incurring a tax. Dammit all to hell, Rudy better fix this pronto.

Logical
07-10-2007, 08:32 PM
Well I work 7 days a week, pay for almost everything on my own and appreciate a good deal. But I don't appreaciate the hard facts of life?

I don't understand how you think having the goverment fix health care is the right solution.You make a big assumption, I did not say I favor a government solution but I am open to the idea given how broke our health care system is at present. I am also open to a good solution that fixes the present system. I want to hear argument from both sides.

recxjake
07-10-2007, 08:32 PM
Please point me to the statute where someone is taxed for the act of dying. Last time I checked, the tax was on the transfer of wealth. :shrug:

Or you could admit it's just another empty little political label like "Progressive" taxation.

If you want your kids to pay the death tax when you die that is fine by me... but I think it is double taxation and should be eliminated.

BucEyedPea
07-10-2007, 08:36 PM
Rudy isn't for the flat or fair tax... he wants to simplifiy the current system and cut out taxes like the death tax.
I just asked this man, whose job is to work with the politicians and travel the country speaking to groups. He dines with these politicians, and their aides/staffers. I asked him this on the eve June 22. He said Rudy is for the flat tax.
I suppose he could be wrong but I find it unlikely. But we may also be saying the same thing as the flat tax does simplify the current system.

Logical
07-10-2007, 08:38 PM
If you want your kids to pay the death tax when you die that is fine by me... but I think it is double taxation and should be eliminated.

Lots of taxes is Rudy going to get rid of all of them. Property tax, sales tax, inheritance tax (actual name for your buzzword), and luxury taxes (yes they are real) are all double taxes given that we alreaedy pay income tax, then of course there can be state and local income taxes which would also qualify. Man Rudy has a lot to eliminate.

recxjake
07-10-2007, 08:40 PM
I just asked this man, whose job is to work with the politicians and travel the country speaking to groups. He dines with these politicians, and their aides/staffers. I asked him this on the eve June 22. He said Rudy is for the flat tax.
I suppose he could be wrong but I find it unlikely. But we may also be saying the same thing as the flat tax does simplify the current system.

I'm telling you Rudy is not for the flat tax that Forbes introduced. He may be confused with the fact that Rudy was endorsed by Steve Forbes.

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Rain Man
07-10-2007, 08:42 PM
1. Pass a law prohibiting governmental agencies from using eminent domain laws to seize private property for resale to another private property.

2. Government shall remove itself from any enterprise or portion of enterprise where more than 33 percent of said services are provided to the public independently by the private sector.

3. Henceforth, temporary work permits will be offered to people attempting to cross the U.S. border at specific checkpoints. People entering those checkpoints will be asked to list a skill and will then be matched with an employer who joins a list requesting that skill. Both sides will pay a price for the service, and the revenue generated will be used to staff an armed border patrol for all areas other than the checkpoints, and to chase down anyone that the employer reports missing. Any pay generated to the employees will be subject to a special 7 percent employment tax that will be allocated to the Social Security trust fund.

4. The U.S. will construct large solar energy collectors on the surface of the moon, with microwave transmitters to beam the energy back to earth.

5. Any pornography involving one or more women with no men will no longer be considered pornography, but rather art.

6. Graduation for every year of every level of education will be based on the passage of standardized tests of the skills learned. No passee testee, no gettee diploma. All grades will be reported as percentiles, not ABCDF.

7. Mission to Mars. Manned landing by 2020.

8. No taxes on savings or investments, though you can still tax gains from those investments.

9. Eliminate the rules that prevent defensive backs from touching wide receivers.

10. Change the Presidency to one six-year term, and implement term limits in all Senate and House positions.

Adept Havelock
07-10-2007, 08:47 PM
1. Pass a law prohibiting governmental agencies from using eminent domain laws to seize private property for resale to another private property.

2. Government shall remove itself from any enterprise or portion of enterprise where more than 33 percent of said services are provided to the public independently by the private sector.

3. Henceforth, temporary work permits will be offered to people attempting to cross the U.S. border at specific checkpoints. People entering those checkpoints will be asked to list a skill and will then be matched with an employer who joins a list requesting that skill. Both sides will pay a price for the service, and the revenue generated will be used to staff an armed border patrol for all areas other than the checkpoints, and to chase down anyone that the employer reports missing. Any pay generated to the employees will be subject to a special 7 percent employment tax that will be allocated to the Social Security trust fund.

4. The U.S. will construct large solar energy collectors on the surface of the moon, with microwave transmitters to beam the energy back to earth.

5. Any pornography involving one or more women with no men will no longer be considered pornography, but rather art.

6. Graduation for every year of every level of education will be based on the passage of standardized tests of the skills learned. No passee testee, no gettee diploma. All grades will be reported as percentiles, not ABCDF.

7. Mission to Mars. Manned landing by 2020.

8. No taxes on savings or investments, though you can still tax gains from those investments.

9. Eliminate the rules that prevent defensive backs from touching wide receivers.

10. Change the Presidency to one six-year term, and implement term limits in all Senate and House positions.


Hmmm...considering the exisiting field I could really endorse a RainMan/Chief4Ever ticket for '08... or the other way around. Especially on issues #1-6 and most importantly #9. :shrug:

BucEyedPea
07-10-2007, 08:51 PM
Thanks for the video rex, but Rudy doesn't say one way or the other if he supports the flat tax or not on it. It's just an omission so it's still not clear. Besides what he said was general and could apply to either. These guys do not not necessarily mention publically on the campaign if they support any specific tax either. ( for example you won't hear Edwards say it at all but he does support the flat tax.) I asked the guy that. That's what they do.

Rudy definitely has not taken to the consumption tax idea.
Bush, however did pre-election and even told the Chm of the Fair Tax he'd sign it too. But he never mentioned it in his campaign.

recxjake
07-10-2007, 08:54 PM
Thanks for the video rex, but Rudy doesn't say one way or the other if he supports the flat tax or not on it. It's just an omission so it's still not clear. Besides what he said was general and could apply to either. These guys do not not necessarily mention publically on the campaign if they support any specific tax either. ( for example you won't hear Edwards say it at all but he does support the flat tax.) I asked the guy that. That's what they do.

Rudy definitely has not taken to the consumption tax idea.
Bush, however did pre-election and even told the Chm of the Fair Tax he'd sign it too. But he never mentioned it in his campaign.

Acutally a few days ago in Jacksonville, FL he was jeered by the flat tax people in the crowd when he said he didn't support the fair tax.

BucEyedPea
07-10-2007, 08:57 PM
Acutally a few days ago in Jacksonville, FL he was jeered by the flat tax people in the crowd when he said he didn't support the fair tax.
Why would the flat tax people jeer him for not supporting the Fair Tax when both taxes are different systems? That's illogical.

recxjake
07-10-2007, 09:00 PM
Why would the flat tax people jeer him for not supporting the Fair Tax when both taxes are different systems? That's illogical.

oops i meant fair

BucEyedPea
07-10-2007, 09:03 PM
oops i meant fair
IOW's I was correct that he did not support the Fair Tax, at least?
Just see'in if we're on the same page.

recxjake
07-10-2007, 09:09 PM
IOW's I was correct that he did not support the Fair Tax, at least?
Just see'in if we're on the same page.

http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2007/07/07/823952-giuliani-jeered-for-opposing-fair-tax

Logical
07-10-2007, 09:12 PM
1. Pass a law prohibiting governmental agencies from using eminent domain laws to seize private property for resale to another private property.

2. Government shall remove itself from any enterprise or portion of enterprise where more than 33 percent of said services are provided to the public independently by the private sector.

3. Henceforth, temporary work permits will be offered to people attempting to cross the U.S. border at specific checkpoints. People entering those checkpoints will be asked to list a skill and will then be matched with an employer who joins a list requesting that skill. Both sides will pay a price for the service, and the revenue generated will be used to staff an armed border patrol for all areas other than the checkpoints, and to chase down anyone that the employer reports missing. Any pay generated to the employees will be subject to a special 7 percent employment tax that will be allocated to the Social Security trust fund.

4. The U.S. will construct large solar energy collectors on the surface of the moon, with microwave transmitters to beam the energy back to earth.

5. Any pornography involving one or more women with no men will no longer be considered pornography, but rather art.

6. Graduation for every year of every level of education will be based on the passage of standardized tests of the skills learned. No passee testee, no gettee diploma. All grades will be reported as percentiles, not ABCDF.

7. Mission to Mars. Manned landing by 2020.

8. No taxes on savings or investments, though you can still tax gains from those investments.

9. Eliminate the rules that prevent defensive backs from touching wide receivers.

10. Change the Presidency to one six-year term, and implement term limits in all Senate and House positions.I like some of your ideas actually most but I think 4 would fry people. I don't like 7 at all.

BucEyedPea
07-10-2007, 09:18 PM
http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2007/07/07/823952-giuliani-jeered-for-opposing-fair-tax

Interesting....anyhow, from your link, one of major reasons I am not nominating him:

"In response to another question, Giuliani warned against pulling out of Iraq, saying it would create a country run by terrorists."

recxjake
07-10-2007, 09:20 PM
Interesting....anyhow, from your link, one of major reasons I am not nominating him:

"In response to another question, Giuliani warned against pulling out of Iraq, saying it would create a country run by terrorists."

It sounds like Iraq is going to be done w/in 4 or 5 months the way things are going.

BucEyedPea
07-10-2007, 09:23 PM
It sounds like Iraq is going to be done w/in 4 or 5 months the way things are going.
That will help the GOP's chances imo.
But I also think every last troop needs to come out...not leave a small amount.
We monitored the Gulf before with out land troops and bases. That stuff started post PGWI under another Bush. The bases have to go as well as every troop. No halfway measures.

noa
07-10-2007, 10:12 PM
Interesting....anyhow, from your link, one of major reasons I am not nominating him:

"In response to another question, Giuliani warned against pulling out of Iraq, saying it would create a country run by terrorists."

Not only that, but Norman Podhoretz just joined Rudy's campaign as Senior Foreign Policy Advisor , so electing him will be voting for a new war in Iran.

Direckshun
07-10-2007, 10:19 PM
I'd probably just do this.

http://chunkaddressescongress.ytmnd.com/

BucEyedPea
07-11-2007, 09:28 AM
Not only that, but Norman Podhoretz just joined Rudy's campaign as Senior Foreign Policy Advisor , so electing him will be voting for a new war in Iran.
I already knew he was in the hands of the Neo Conservatives. Rudy is also Murdoch's man, the owner of Fox who has been the main propaganda channel for the unecessary aggressive wars in Iraq and the coming one with Iran.

Very disturbing about Podhoretz though, who has been Cheney's propaganda chief and he really, really wants a war with Iran. He's been out stumping for it...this is why you see these false reports in the press here and there on Iran. Same as on Iraq. Rudy's in big with AEI/PNAC guys. Now it looks like Thompson is to be Rudy's replacement if Rudy goes down in any way. Thompson has become surrounded by these guys too. This is how they operate. Either way the NeoCons win and it's more of the same. And don't think any of the Dems leaders aren't thoroughly neo-connized. They are.

Adept Havelock
07-11-2007, 10:58 AM
I already knew he was in the hands of the Neo Conservatives. Rudy is also Murdoch's man, the owner of Fox who has been the main propaganda channel for the unecessary aggressive wars in Iraq and the coming one with Iran.

Very disturbing about Podhoretz though, who has been Cheney's propaganda chief and he really, really wants a war with Iran. He's been out stumping for it...this is why you see these false reports in the press here and there on Iran. Same as on Iraq. Rudy's in big with AEI/PNAC guys. Now it looks like Thompson is to be Rudy's replacement if Rudy goes down in any way. Thompson has become surrounded by these guys too. This is how they operate. Either way the NeoCons win and it's more of the same. And don't think any of the Dems leaders aren't thoroughly neo-connized. They are.


Neo-connized? Not to be a grammar nazi, but wouldn't that be Neo-Conned? :p

Yes, that is pretty disturbing. Looks like the cranial-rectal inverted bunch at PNAC is gearing up for the next phase of their brilliant Mideast plan.

BucEyedPea
07-11-2007, 11:22 AM
Neo-connized? Not to be a grammar nazi, but wouldn't that be Neo-Conned? :p
I don't know....it's just a new word I coined.