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jAZ
07-12-2007, 03:36 PM
http://electioncentral.tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2007/jul/12/christian_right_activists_disrupt_hindu_chaplain_in_the_senate

Christian Right Activists Disrupt Hindu Chaplain In The Senate
By Eric Kleefeld | bio

Today was a historic first for religion in America's civic life: For the very first time, a Hindu delivered the morning invocation in the Senate chamber ó only to find the ceremony disrupted by three Christian right activists.

We have video of the astonishing scene, and we'll be sharing it with you shortly.

The three protesters, who all belong to the Christian Right anti-abortion group Operation Save America, and who apparently traveled to Washington all the way from North Carolina, interrupted by loudly asking for God's forgiveness for allowing the false prayer of a Hindu in the Senate chamber.

"Lord Jesus, forgive us father for allowing a prayer of the wicked, which is an abomination in your sight," the first protester began.

"This is an abomination," he continued. "We shall have no other gods before You."

More after the jump.

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Senator Bob Casey (D-PA), serving as the presiding officer for the morning, immediately ordered them taken away ó though they continued to yell at the Hindu cleric as they were headed out the door, shouting out phrases such as, "No Lord but Jesus Christ!" and "There's only one true God!"

The cleric, Rajan Zed of Reno, Nevada, was visibly nervous and uncomfortable as he then delivered the morning prayer. But to his credit, he soon regained his footing and was able to make it through in a dignified fashion.

For their part, Operation Save America put out an interesting press release, claiming responsibility for the protests and castigating Senators for not joining in:

Theology Moved to the Senate and was Arrested


Theology has moved from the church house onto the floor of the United States Senate, and has been arrested.

Ante Pavkovic, Kathy Pavkovic, and Kristen Sugar were all arrested in the chambers of the United States Senate as that chamber was violated by a false Hindu god. The Senate was opened with a Hindu prayer placing the false god of Hinduism on a level playing field with the One True God, Jesus Christ. This would never have been allowed by our Founding Fathers.

"Not one Senator had the backbone to stand as our Founding Fathers stood. They stood on the Gospel of Jesus Christ! There were three in the audience with the courage to stand and proclaim, 'Thou shalt have no other gods before me.' They were immediately removed from the chambers, arrested, and are in jail now. God bless those who stand for Jesus as we know that He stands for them." Rev. Flip Benham, Director, Operation Save America/Operation Rescue

A call for comment to Benham has not been returned as of this writing.

jAZ
07-12-2007, 04:05 PM
I just want to know "Why?".

Simplex3
07-12-2007, 04:14 PM
I just want to know "Why?".
You're f**king kidding, right? Christianity has been the dominant religion in this country for hundreds of years and they're starting to see the stranglehold slip. Add to that the fact that these people actually believe this life is a blip on the radar and that this type of behavior ensures them getting everything they want for free for eternity.

Yeah, real shocking. It's shocking like a dirt poor Muslim boy who will never get laid being drawn to 72 virgins.

Jilly
07-12-2007, 04:14 PM
that makes me cry so hard...was that real?

jAZ
07-12-2007, 04:21 PM
that makes me cry so hard...was that real?
Yes, and it gets worse.

He suggested the Hindu Chaplain should have been arrested (presumably for being Hindu... though he backed down from that when confronted with the absurdity of the suggestion).

http://electioncentral.tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2007/jul/12/head_of_christian_right_group_calls_hindu_senate_invocation_gross_idolatry

Head Of Christian Right Group Calls Hindu Senate Invocation "Gross Idolatry"
By Eric Kleefeld | bio

As we reported earlier today, a religious and political milestone of sorts took place early today when a Hindu delivered the morning invocation in the Senate chamber ó only to find the ceremony disrupted by three activists from the Christian Right anti-abortion group Operation Save America.

Well, Election Central has just gotten off the phone with the group's chief, Rev. Flip Benham. And he's hailing the move by the three activists -- while slamming the Hindu's appearance as "gross idolatry."

In the interview, Benham praised the three activists, Ante and Katherine Pavkovic and their daughter Kristen. And he scorned the idea of the Hindu invocation.

"What we have here is just a wonderful example of Christian theology becoming biography in the sacred chamber of the United States Senate, as a Hindu was offering up a prayer to open up the session this morning. And the folks that were there [the Pavkovics] ... waited for the Senate, or a Senator with a backbone, to remind the Hindu that there is one God who made this country great, and his name is Jesus."



The Pavkovics disrupted the ceremony after seeing that no Senator would emerge to challenge the Hindu clergyman's beliefs.

The idea to protest the Hindu's invocation originated in a very organic way, Benham said in the interview. The Pavkovics had come to Washington to protest the proposed hate crimes bill with other activists. When everyone else was headed home, the family found out about the upcoming Hindu presence in the Senate, and realized they could not simply stay silent.

"They thought they needed to go and represent the Lord who made this nation great," Benham said. The event, he said, is emblematic of the modern tendency of "other religions being held on a par with Christianity. Of course, we have said that is not true, that indeed Christianity is one way."

Election Central asked Benham what he thought of Tim Wildmon, president of the far-right American Family Association, who was quoted by CNN condemning the Pavkovic family's behavior. Wildmon told CNN: "We would not ever encourage shouting in the gallery like that, we asked people to contact their Senators to show their disapproval."

Benham said he respects Wildmon as a friend and ally, but he thinks his friend is simply wrong on this matter. "Our answer is," Benham said, "When one stands up in the face of gross idolatry being allowed in the Senate, in the chamber of the United States Senate, it is incumbent on a Christian to stand up and speak the truth. No matter what, we must obey God rather than men."

"When you stand up and are arrested, and the Hindu is allowed to go free, this country has gone upside-down," Benham added ó though when asked, he later clarified that he does not believe people of other religions should be arrested for their beliefs. "Now, why are Hindus allowed here? Why are Muslims allowed here? Because we are a nation that's free, built upon the principles of almighty God."

jAZ
07-12-2007, 04:23 PM
What's the Senate policy for random people walking into Senate Chambers? Can I do that? Or were the protestors invited by a Senator?

Jilly
07-12-2007, 04:24 PM
What's the Senate policy for random people walking into Senate Chambers? Can I do that? Or were the protestors invited by a Senator?

I was curious about that too? How did these people get in there?

Pitt Gorilla
07-12-2007, 04:38 PM
Sounds about right.

noa
07-12-2007, 04:39 PM
What's the Senate policy for random people walking into Senate Chambers? Can I do that? Or were the protestors invited by a Senator?

You have to get a pass from a senate office, but that shouldn't be too hard if you schedule a tour. It doesn't take a personal invite from a politician. As long as you get the pass and can get through the medal detectors, anyone can sit in on a session.

Adept Havelock
07-12-2007, 05:03 PM
What's the problem? It's not like Hinduism is a real faith anyway. [/The Pope]

Just another reason to leave religion out of government, IMO.

You're f**king kidding, right? Christianity has been the dominant religion in this country for hundreds of years and they're starting to see the stranglehold slip. Add to that the fact that these people actually believe this life is a blip on the radar and that this type of behavior ensures them getting everything they want for free for eternity.


Well said. Pretty much my take on it as well.

trndobrd
07-12-2007, 06:10 PM
No matter what, we must obey God rather than men.




Some mornings God just says, "Know what Flip? You should go down to the Senate chamber and shout down someone praying. That would really please me."

How can you argue with that?

BucEyedPea
07-12-2007, 07:34 PM
What's the problem? It's not like Hinduism is a real faith anyway. [/The Pope]

I didn't see anything designating those RR as Catholic. RCC does recognize Hindu as a faith.

BucEyedPea
07-12-2007, 07:57 PM
I wanted to look up the history of this opening prayer in the Senate.
In 1992 it was a Muslim.


Inviting guest chaplains to open Senate sessions dates back to at least 1857, according to SHO records. In that year, all sessions were opened by guest chaplains, because the Senate did not appoint an official chaplain....

While the majority of official and guest chaplains represent Protestant, Catholic or Jewish faiths, Zed is not the first religious figure outside the Judeo-Christian tradition to offer the daily prayer. In 1992, Wallace Mohammed became the first Muslim leader to deliver the invocation.


Link (http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=/Culture/archive/200706/CUL20070626a.html)

BucEyedPea
07-12-2007, 08:04 PM
From same site....Looks like the protestors are going to be charged:

Update: Christian Protesters Charged and Released

(CNSNews.com) - Three Christian protesters who disrupted the first Hindu prayer ever delivered on the Senate floor have been charged with misdemeanor unlawful conduct and disruption of Congress and will face a court date in the future. Ante Pavkovic, Katherine Pavkovic and their daughter Christan Sugar were removed from the Senate observation gallery Thursday morning when they began praying loudly during the Senate's routine opening prayer. ...

Nightwish
07-12-2007, 08:05 PM
The idea to protest the Hindu's invocation originated in a very organic way, Benham said in the interview. The Pavkovics had come to Washington to protest the proposed hate crimes bill with other activists. When everyone else was headed home, the family found out about the upcoming Hindu presence in the Senate, and realized they could not simply stay silent.
Methinks Mr. Benham misspoke. It would seem that "ironic" would have been the better word.

Adept Havelock
07-12-2007, 08:23 PM
I didn't see anything designating those RR as Catholic. RCC does recognize Hindu as a faith.


I never said they were Catholic. :shrug:

I'm sure the RCC recognizes them as a faith, just not a "real" or "legitimate" one. Which was my point.

BucEyedPea
07-12-2007, 09:15 PM
I never said they were Catholic. :shrug:
Shrug? You had a [/The Pope] tag on it.

I'm sure the RCC recognizes them as a faith, just not a "real" or "legitimate" one. Which was my point.
Of course not, none of them do. Otherwise they'd be Hindus. ;)

They will validate parts they feel are true and the fact they attempt to answer the big questions as to who we are, why we are here as a good thing though.

NewChief
07-12-2007, 09:56 PM
This brings to mind a recent column that one of the priests at my church wrote:

http://www.nwarktimes.com/story.php?paper=nwat&section=Editorial&storyid=54870

Iíve got a friend who is convinced that everything started going downhill in this country when we banned school prayer. This is a Christian nation, he insists. And weíre never going to be truly blessed by God until we return to that original religious identity.

So I offered a suggestion. Iím a Christian. Let me be in charge of Christianity in Fayetteville. After all, Iím the rector of the Episcopal church here, and we are the descendents of the Established Church in our Mother Country, England. Weíre the American version of the Church of England. We know how to be the official church. After all, the National Cathedral in Washington, D. C. is one of ours. And most of those guys who founded the country were Episcopalians, including the father of our nation, George Washington. If anybody in town ought to be in charge of religion, itís me, I suggested to him.

I could write all of the prayers and morning devotions for the school children. Iíll take care of invocations before all public events. I can develop a curriculum for Bible study in the public schools, and teach the youngsters how to take the Bible seriously but not literally. Thatíll be a refreshing change from what some of them have been taught at their churches. Iíll teach them about sacraments and the church year and all of the other great Christian traditions. Weíll be a Christian city. How about that ?

My friend doesnít like that idea. Heís not Episcopalian. He doesnít much like our churchís ways. In fact, his church ancestors immigrated to this country to get away from my church ancestors. He wants his kind of Christianity to be in charge. Heís Baptist. And, after all, there are more of them than there are of us.

But I donít like that idea. Iíve had a Baptist minister tell me Iím a heretic and probably going to hell. He meant well, but I think heís wrong. Nearly every one of the good Episcopal children who go to my church have had one of their friends try to convince them that their soul is probably condemned unless they come get saved at their Baptist church. My kids feel oppressed enough already without hearing what bad sinners they are from the school intercom. So unless Iím in charge of public religion, Iíd prefer we keep things the way they are.

As it is, kids pray in school. Especially during math exams. And students can organize their own prayer groups and Bible study groups if they want to. But Episcopalian teachers canít make Baptist kids sit there and learn about sacraments, and Baptist teachers canít make Episcopalian kids sit there and be told every word of the Bible is literally true. And Buddhist, Moslem and atheist kids can go to school and learn in peace.

My friend concedes that I have a point. But, he says, whatís wrong with the Ten Commandments being posted in the courtroom and classroom ? After all, thatís not just Christian. Everybody agrees with the Ten Commandments. This world would be a better place if everybody followed the Ten Commandments, he says.

Heís right, of course. But Iíve got another suggestion. What if in some of those courtrooms and classrooms we replaced the Ten Commandments with the Nine Buddhist Prayers for Love. I like them a whole lot. Hereís a condensed version.

May all be peaceful, happy, and light in body and spirit.

May all be free from injury and live in safety.

May all learn to look at ourselves with the eyes of understanding and love.

May all be able to recognize and touch the seeds of joy and happiness in themselves.

May all learn to identify and see sources of anger, craving, and delusion in themselves.

May all know how to nourish the seeds of joy in themselves every day.

May all be able to live fresh, solid and free.

May all be free from attachment and aversion, but not be indifferent.

I suggested to my friend that the nine might actually be more helpful than the 10, especially in a courtroom or a classroom. He disagrees with me. Weíre not Buddhists, he says. Well, some of us are, I say. If youíre going to insist that the Ten Commandments need to be posted in the classroom and courtroom, how can you deny the Nine Buddhist Prayers ? The First Amendment says weíre not going to establish one religion above the others.

But he still insists that weíre a Christian nation and we ought to have only Christian symbols in public. In that case, I think the Episcopalians ought to be in charge. He still doesnít like that.

Adept Havelock
07-12-2007, 10:00 PM
NewPhin: :clap: Thanks for passing that along.


Shrug? You had a [/The Pope] tag on it.

Well, considering the Pope would agree that Hinduism isn't a legitimate faith, and the discussions about his recent statements about the Primacy of the RCC.... :shrug:


They will validate parts they feel are true and the fact they attempt to answer the big questions as to who we are, why we are here as a good thing though.

A good thing? I suppose.

I know who I am. My Drivers License can tell me if I forget.

Why am I here? To quote myself from a thread on that subject from a little over a year ago:

Short Answer: Free Will.

Longer Answer: A long time ago, my mother was impregnated by my father. 9 months later, I popped out. I then lived through a series of life experiences which eventually led me to want to spend part of my free time here.

Quantum Answer: Because that's the way the wave function collapsed.

:p

Pitt Gorilla
07-12-2007, 10:06 PM
This brings to mind a recent column that one of the priests at my church wrote:

http://www.nwarktimes.com/story.php?paper=nwat&section=Editorial&storyid=54870
That was very well stated.

Iowanian
07-12-2007, 10:08 PM
They're lucky it wasn't 3 Muslim Activists....else the prayer be interupted by "allah akbar" and explosions instead.

kcfanintitanhell
07-12-2007, 10:29 PM
My Favorite bumper sticker of all time...

Jesus-Save Me From Your Followers.

Pitt Gorilla
07-12-2007, 10:41 PM
They're lucky it wasn't 3 Muslim Activists....else the prayer be interupted by "allah akbar" and explosions instead.It is interesting that the Muslim Activists don't seem to interrupt.

Cochise
07-12-2007, 11:10 PM
I wonder if there would be a stir if the usual invocation would have been interrupted by shouting atheists.

go bowe
07-12-2007, 11:49 PM
I wonder if there would be a stir if the usual invocation would have been interrupted by shouting atheists.there would be a stir if the invocation was interrupted by shouting of any kind...

|Zach|
07-13-2007, 12:10 AM
I wonder if there would be a stir if the usual invocation would have been interrupted by shouting atheists.
Of course it would. Is this meant in jest?

BucEyedPea
07-13-2007, 06:56 AM
I wonder if there would be a stir if the usual invocation would have been interrupted by shouting atheists.
Probably not. Each belief system, or non-belief, see themselves as superior.
That's why it bother's them so much when another faith claims they're superior. Projection.

Jilly
07-13-2007, 07:40 AM
This brings to mind a recent column that one of the priests at my church wrote:

http://www.nwarktimes.com/story.php?paper=nwat&section=Editorial&storyid=54870


Thanks for sharing that with us. I love it. I really do

Sully
07-13-2007, 09:03 AM
This brings to mind a recent column that one of the priests at my church wrote:

http://www.nwarktimes.com/story.php?paper=nwat&section=Editorial&storyid=54870
I'm stealing that...
And thank you.

Simplex3
07-13-2007, 09:11 AM
It is interesting that the Muslim Activists don't seem to interrupt.
Tell that to some kids that have been blown up in a pizza parlor or the families that died in the subway attacks.

I wonder if there would be a stir if the usual invocation would have been interrupted by shouting atheists.
Atheists are more hated than Christians. There was a poll recently that showed Americans in general trusted atheists less than Muslims.

Pitt Gorilla
07-13-2007, 09:57 AM
Tell that to some kids that have been blown up in a pizza parlor or the families that died in the subway attacks.


Atheists are more hated than Christians. There was a poll recently that showed Americans in general trusted atheists less than Muslims.I thought the context involved the Senate. Is there a pizza parlor there?

Adept Havelock
07-13-2007, 10:31 AM
I wonder if there would be a stir if the usual invocation would have been interrupted by shouting atheists.

:spock:

A little sore there? A bit of granulated silicon in your nether regions?

Why wouldn't there be a stir? It'd be a story, regardless of the view of the supernatural held by the screaming nutjobs.

Personally, I think one comment from the idiot who runs that group is particularly telling: "When you stand up and are arrested, and the Hindu is allowed to go free, this country has gone upside-down," speaks volumes about the nuttiness of these folks. What did the Hindu do that he should not have been allowed to go free? Sure, he backtracked when called out on it, but I find it interesting he said it in the first place.

I thought the context involved the Senate. Is there a pizza parlor there?

If they don't, I'm fully confident the Congresscritters would happily vote themselves one.

Sully
07-13-2007, 10:37 AM
I thought the context involved the Senate. Is there a pizza parlor there?
Mmmmmm.
You can really taste the concurrent resolution.

cookster50
07-13-2007, 01:21 PM
It's sad to think that a lot of people view what these 3 nutcases did as a real example of how the majority of Christians would act like.

I don't know who they represent, but they sure don't represent me.