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View Full Version : BREAKING: Reid To Force All-Night Filibuster On Iraq Withdrawal


jAZ
07-16-2007, 04:07 PM
It's about time. I don't "blame" the GOP for using the filibuster, but they don't simultaneously get to call the Dems the "do nothing congress".

It's time that the media covered the GOP filibuster (and it's MUCH more widespread than this Iraq bill... it's very nearly every major and minor bill).

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/07/16/reid-filibuster/

BREAKING: Reid To Force All-Night Filibuster On Iraq Withdrawal

Moments ago, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) announced that in response to conservative obstructionism, he plans to force war supporters to physically remain in the Senate and filibuster Iraq withdrawal legislation.

Reid accused conservatives of “protecting the President rather than protecting our troops” by “denying us an up or down vote on the most important issue our country faces.” He said that if a vote on the Reed/Levin Iraq legislation is not allowed today or tomorrow, he will keep the Senate in session “straight through the night on Tuesday” and force a filibuster. From Reid’s speech:

Republicans are using a filibuster to block us from even voting on an amendment that could bring the war to a responsible end. They are protecting the President rather than protecting our troops.

They are denying us an up or down — yes or no — vote on the most important issue our country faces.

I would like to inform the Republican leadership and all my colleagues that we have no intention of backing down.

If Republicans do not allow a vote on Levin/Reed today or tomorrow, we will work straight through the night on Tuesday.

The American people deserve an open and honest debate on this war, and they deserve an up or down vote on this amendment to end it.

Hydrae
07-16-2007, 04:15 PM
I like that he gave them 24 hours notice, maybe they will get it done instead of having to "work overtime."

KC Dan
07-16-2007, 04:15 PM
Nothing new here. Filibusters have always been used by the minority when the majority trys to squash debate and amendments. Remember the gov't budget shutdown...repubs pulled this all-nighter stuff then too.

penchief
07-16-2007, 04:17 PM
OBSTRUCTIONIST REPBULICANS!!!!

heh...

penchief
07-16-2007, 04:17 PM
NUCLEAR OPTION!!! NUCLEAR OPTION!!!


heh.....

penchief
07-16-2007, 04:18 PM
DO AWAY WITH THE FILIBUSTER!!!!!

StcChief
07-16-2007, 04:21 PM
Dems all nighter right.

Ultra Peanut
07-16-2007, 04:21 PM
They are protecting the President rather than protecting our troops.WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA

WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES MR. REID

a1na2
07-16-2007, 05:08 PM
I'm sure glad the democrats have never done that.

It just wouldn't be right.

Adept Havelock
07-16-2007, 05:13 PM
:LOL:

Another fantastic insight from Tom. What would we do without them? Laugh less often, I suppose.

Pitt Gorilla
07-16-2007, 05:46 PM
Thumbs up or thumbs down, or something like that.

Taco John
07-16-2007, 06:18 PM
http://www.noendinsightmovie.com/

jAZ
07-16-2007, 07:00 PM
It's time that the media covered the GOP filibuster (and it's MUCH more widespread than this Iraq bill... it's very nearly every major and minor bill).
Jesus Christ, the media is working triple time to avoid even using the word "filibuster".

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070716/pl_nm/iraq_usa_congress_dc_1;_ylt=AndUoNyF_lAhYO0C5WRLUvYE1vAI

...opposition Republicans are insisting on 60 votes for a victory.

Reid said that without the Republicans' procedural hurdle, a simple majority of the 100-member Senate would vote for the troop withdrawal, with "a number of Republicans" supporting it.

penchief
07-16-2007, 07:13 PM
Jesus Christ, the media is working triple time to avoid even using the word "filibuster".

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070716/pl_nm/iraq_usa_congress_dc_1;_ylt=AndUoNyF_lAhYO0C5WRLUvYE1vAI

...opposition Republicans are insisting on 60 votes for a victory.

Reid said that without the Republicans' procedural hurdle, a simple majority of the 100-member Senate would vote for the troop withdrawal, with "a number of Republicans" supporting it.

That's because the media is liberal.

Heck, if the media wasn't so liberal would they be relentlessly covering all these congressional hearings about Bush' governmental abuses with such tenacity?

Geez, the media is raking Bush over the coals about issues so unimportant as governmental abuses while they let Clinton completely off the hook for personal shit that happened prior to his becoming president and had nothing to do with the conduct of U.S. policy. Corporate media, my ass!

If that isn't proof that the media is a bunch of Clinton loving liberals, I don't know what is.

patteeu
07-17-2007, 05:55 AM
*Yawn*

Mr. Kotter
07-17-2007, 06:36 AM
Mere political grandstanding and theatrics, IMO.

:ZZZ:

Radar Chief
07-17-2007, 07:56 AM
DO AWAY WITH THE FILIBUSTER!!!!!

At least this is over legislation instead of nominees.
Which is pretty much what the filibuster was meant for, no?

I’m actually glad to see the Dems have enough balls to force the Repubs to actually but in the hours for a filibuster, instead of letting them get away with threatening it like the Repubs let the Dems do.

Chief Henry
07-17-2007, 09:09 AM
We are suppose to get a major report on the surge by General Patraus (sp) this fall. Why do we need all this grand standing by politicians before the report by General Patraus (sp) ?

Radar Chief
07-17-2007, 09:33 AM
We are suppose to get a major report on the surge by General Patraus (sp) this fall. Why do we need all this grand standing by politicians before the report by General Patraus (sp) ?

This looks to me like a ploy to get out in front of the news to color it a certain way so that when/if positive news comes out the public will be skeptical.

jAZ
07-17-2007, 09:50 AM
Mere political grandstanding and theatrics, IMO.

:ZZZ:
When the media is working triple time to avoid framing the GOP as "filibustering" any meaning Democratic legislation and simultaneously reporting the "do nothing" Congress talking points... the grandstanding and theater is more than "mere". It's the the requisite next step to put public pressure on the GOP.

Ultra Peanut
07-17-2007, 11:21 AM
Jesus Christ, the media is working triple time to avoid even using the word "filibuster".

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070716/pl_nm/iraq_usa_congress_dc_1;_ylt=AndUoNyF_lAhYO0C5WRLUvYE1vAI

...opposition Republicans are insisting on 60 votes for a victory.

Reid said that without the Republicans' procedural hurdle, a simple majority of the 100-member Senate would vote for the troop withdrawal, with "a number of Republicans" supporting it.lieberal media

Chief Henry
07-17-2007, 12:24 PM
Political grandstanding at its finest. How many cots will be set up tonight in the Senate ?

Chief Faithful
07-17-2007, 01:17 PM
These vets are asking Ried to wait until the report in September.

Iraq Vets Go to Capital: Don't Declare Defeat (http://www.vetsforfreedom.org/news/Read.aspx?ID=274)

ChiefaRoo
07-17-2007, 01:54 PM
I love it. Old men wearing suits forced to stay up all night debating and making symbolic votes that mean nothing. It'll be fun to see which one falls asleep in his chair first.

Calcountry
07-17-2007, 02:52 PM
When the media is working triple time to avoid framing the GOP as "filibustering" any meaning Democratic legislation and simultaneously reporting the "do nothing" Congress talking points... the grandstanding and theater is more than "mere". It's the the requisite next step to put public pressure on the GOP.Suppose, God forbid, 6 simultaneous bombs go off in and around Tucson killing a few of your loved ones in the name of Allah Akhbar!11.

You are President, what is your response? Would you have a sit down? Invite them to lunch? Pray with them on their rug?

What did you do to cause such anger?

What would it take to make you want to annihilate the infestation of cock roaches that doesn't want to peacefully coexist with us any longer.

If offered the choice to convert to Islam, or have you head sawed off, which would you choose?

I pray you will never have to make such a choice, but due to the party ahead of country politics that the Democrats have played since 9/11, I am afraid someday your grandchildren, God forbid, may have to make such a choice.

Cochise
07-17-2007, 02:54 PM
"conservative obstructionism".

They engage exclusively in a behavior for 7 years and a month or two of the same from the other side is simply outrageous.

Adept Havelock
07-17-2007, 03:08 PM
I pray you will never have to make such a choice, but due to the party ahead of country politics that the Democrats have played since 9/11, I am afraid someday your grandchildren, God forbid, may have to make such a choice.


At first I thought I misread this, then I realized you're delusional enough to believe that only one party practices "Party ahead of country politics".

Sad, really.

jAZ
07-17-2007, 03:14 PM
Suppose, God forbid, 6 simultaneous bombs go off in and around Tucson killing a few of your loved ones in the name of Allah Akhbar!11.

You are President, what is your response? Would you have a sit down? Invite them to lunch? Pray with them on their rug?

What did you do to cause such anger?

What would it take to make you want to annihilate the infestation of cock roaches that doesn't want to peacefully coexist with us any longer.

If offered the choice to convert to Islam, or have you head sawed off, which would you choose?

I pray you will never have to make such a choice, but due to the party ahead of country politics that the Democrats have played since 9/11, I am afraid someday your grandchildren, God forbid, may have to make such a choice.
Were I a NeoCon Fanboy I'd use illegal immigration as an excuse to invade Mexico and link it to Al Queda.

Cochise
07-17-2007, 03:15 PM
I don't have any objection to forcing people to get up there and read the phone book during filibusters, either. I think this should happen each and every time anyone tries to do it.

jAZ
07-17-2007, 03:16 PM
"conservative obstructionism".

They engage exclusively in a behavior for 7 years and a month or two of the same from the other side is simply outrageous.
What's outrageous is that the media covers up the GOP's actions.

jAZ
07-17-2007, 03:16 PM
I don't have any objection to forcing people to get up there and read the phone book during filibusters, either. I think this should happen each and every time anyone tries to do it.
:clap:

Agree 100%.

noa
07-17-2007, 03:21 PM
Time to bust out Strom Thurmond's cookbook

Adept Havelock
07-17-2007, 03:30 PM
I don't have any objection to forcing people to get up there and read the phone book during filibusters, either. I think this should happen each and every time anyone tries to do it.


I wholeheartedly agree.

In fact, I'll take it a step further and suggest they should be forced to do it while standing on one leg, a hand on their hip, and singing "I'm a Little Teapot" every hour, on the hour in honor of the Teapot Dome scandal.

Cochise
07-17-2007, 03:52 PM
If I were part of this, I'd be stretching my face with clothespins doing Nancy Pelosi impressions, I'd have parody sock-puppet democratic debates... I might even re-enact the bridge at Chappaquiddick with a power wheels and some cabbage patch dolls. At least we would get some entertainment out of it.

mlyonsd
07-17-2007, 04:18 PM
If I were part of this, I'd be stretching my face with clothespins doing Nancy Pelosi impressions, I'd have parody sock-puppet democratic debates... I might even re-enact the bridge at Chappaquiddick with a power wheels and some cabbage patch dolls. At least we would get some entertainment out of it.

I'll bet Teddy has already volunteered to take over for the dems at the 2am shift after the bars have closed and he's just getting warmed up.

jAZ
07-17-2007, 04:58 PM
Seriously... this is just stupid.

Here's a CBS article on the issue, where they go out of their way to avoid th word "filibuster"...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/07/17/politics/main3064945.shtml

With a test vote set for Wednesday — capping a day and night of debate — Democratic officials conceded they were likely to get 52 or 53 votes at most. That's well short of the 60 needed to force a final vote on the measure.
But they sure as hell made sure to use the term when recalling the Dems in 2003.
But the political roles were reversed. Four years ago, Republicans demanded votes on Mr. Bush's judicial nominees, and Democrats filibustered to avoid certain confirmation of several conservative appointees.

Same on Fox News (same AP article I guess).

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,289555,00.html

jAZ
07-17-2007, 05:02 PM
Here's the Washington Post doing the same thing...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/16/AR2007071601597.html?hpid=topnews

But GOP leaders held firm to a 60-vote threshold for passage -- a routine maneuver in today's closely divided Senate but a number Democrats have been unable to meet all year. And Republicans decried Reid's decision for a marathon session as a stunt.

WoodDraw
07-17-2007, 05:08 PM
Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats are actually using a filibuster, so I'd rather the word not be used at all.

So a few of them will sleep in Congress and still get nothing done. Nice. My guess this week still won't be a 40 hour work week for most of them.

mlyonsd
07-17-2007, 05:09 PM
Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats are actually using a filibuster, so I'd rather the word not be used at all.

So a few of them will sleep in Congress and still get nothing done. Nice. My guess this week still won't be a 40 hour work week for most of them.

Are you counting the working "dinners" and "events" they are invited to each night? ROFL

penchief
07-17-2007, 05:18 PM
If I were part of this, I'd be stretching my face with clothespins doing Nancy Pelosi impressions, I'd have parody sock-puppet democratic debates... I might even re-enact the bridge at Chappaquiddick with a power wheels and some cabbage patch dolls. At least we would get some entertainment out of it.

I'd take full advantage of the debate and carefully craft my words to most accurately project my position. Anytime you can go on record for what you believe and why you believe it, I think it's important to lay your marker down. History will judge us by our own words and actions.

Stonewalling, fingerpointing, and misleading others will always runs its course. And when that time comes, that's typically when the proverbial house of cards comes crashing down. I believe that time is nearing for the Bush/Cheney Administration.

jAZ
07-17-2007, 05:22 PM
ABC calls it equal opportunity "Gridlock"...

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=3381078

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Gridlock has seized control of Washington, from the White House to the white dome of the U.S. Capitol.

Republicans and Democrats are engaged in close combat over disputes ranging from the Iraq war to the federal budget to the firings of U.S. prosecutors, and more.

There is a lot of rhetoric, but action has largely ground to a snail's pace. And there is little prospect of a major change any time soon, as the summer doldrums set in.

The overriding issue is what to do about Iraq, and the Democrats in charge of the U.S. Congress are trying to peel away enough Republicans from unpopular and politically weakened President George W. Bush to force him into a shift in course and start bringing some troops home.

jAZ
07-17-2007, 05:30 PM
Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats are actually using a filibuster, so I'd rather the word not be used at all.

So a few of them will sleep in Congress and still get nothing done. Nice. My guess this week still won't be a 40 hour work week for most of them.
This evening is in fact a filibuster.

The last 6 months has been a filibuster as the process works now... which is to say "a gentleman's filibuster". The controlling power affectively agrees to not force the all nighter when the minority party threatens filibuster... they just agree to let the filibuster stand without the actual debate.

In return for the when the other party takes control they act in kind.

It's how the filibuster works today.

When the Dems were not in power and were filibustering Bush's judicial nominees, no one here, in DC or in the media hesitated to call it a filibuster.

Calcountry
07-17-2007, 10:03 PM
I wholeheartedly agree.

In fact, I'll take it a step further and suggest they should be forced to do it while standing on one leg, a hand on their hip, and singing "I'm a Little Teapot" every hour, on the hour in honor of the Teapot Dome scandal.Just as long as they make that Bitch from West Virginia, lover of the Rules, and "Keeper of the Senate", the Klu Klux Klan "White N***R" man himself Robert Byrd Hold the phone book for said fillibusterers. That would be entertaining enough to actually watch CSPAN.

Ultra Peanut
07-17-2007, 11:54 PM
Why the **** are they so afraid of calling it a goddamn filibuster? It's not a dirty word, it's just a tactic used by the minority party to get what they ****in' want.

It's 2 AM in Washington, and they're talking and talking and talking. You know what they ****ing call that?

Ultra Peanut
07-17-2007, 11:55 PM
I don't have any objection to forcing people to get up there and read the phone book during filibusters, either. I think this should happen each and every time anyone tries to do it.Damn right. They should have to work for it. Get your colostomy bags and start-a-preaching. For the entertainment value, at least.

Oh, hey McCain. How's that "licking Bush and the religious right's taint" thing going for your campaign?

HolmeZz
07-18-2007, 12:01 AM
Yay I found C-Span 2!

Ultra Peanut
07-18-2007, 12:02 AM
My cherry-picked personal anecdotes say that everything is going wonderfully! Stay the course!

Also, the Iraqi "Al Qaeda" shares very little in common with the real Al Qaeda (which is vastly different than it was five years ago, anyways) aside from the name, but hey, he's just a senator. He shouldn't be expected to know that.

HolmeZz
07-18-2007, 12:11 AM
This Cantwell chick is struggling with any word over 3 syllables.

Ultra Peanut
07-18-2007, 12:17 AM
moar like Cantreadwell, m i rite

zZzZz

WoodDraw
07-18-2007, 12:47 AM
Eh, whatever. So what happens tomorrow? They all go home having put on a great publicity stunt? If they care they should keep the Senate in session, day and night, until the 'filibuster' is over. If not, sit down and don't bitch when people don't give the publicity you want. Forgive me for not being impressed by Senators sleeping at the Capital instead of at home.

Ultra Peanut
07-18-2007, 12:52 AM
John McCain is senile.

Ultra Peanut
07-18-2007, 12:58 AM
America: World's Police

WoodDraw
07-18-2007, 01:05 AM
John McCain is senile.

I still like him for some reason, probably left over from the 2000 campaign. He raised some decent points. He's better than most of the pro-war crowd, at least.

Stabenow, on the other hand, has been a disaster so far. Pretty sign, though. How clever.

Ultra Peanut
07-18-2007, 01:08 AM
I was just about to chime in remarking of the sign. LMAO

I still like him for some reason, probably left over from the 2000 campaign.The John McCain of 2000 would bitch slap the John McCain of 2007.

Ebolapox
07-18-2007, 01:11 AM
ya know, I seriously hate politics. I hate democrats, I hate republicans.

on a slightly different and related note, I think it would be cool as f*ck to run for senate, win, and literally do NOTHING except be the filibuster 'specialist'... you know, I would collect a check for those times when a lot of hot air is needed, boredom is needed, and would just relax the rest of the time, spending it writing new 'filibuster' material.

Ultra Peanut
07-18-2007, 01:14 AM
I think I would read the script for various movies, complete with voice acting for all the characters.

"No señor, este no es el baño!"

Ultra Peanut
07-18-2007, 01:17 AM
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH AND IT'S TIME FOR A CHANGE!

I AM NOT A NUGGET!

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/pI4pEtpBU0A"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/pI4pEtpBU0A" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

WoodDraw
07-18-2007, 01:21 AM
It'd be fun to taunt these people as they make their boring irrelevant speeches too. I keep hoping someone will start booing this Senator. She's blown a comparison to greek heroes, basic Congressional rules, and has repeated her point at least four times now word for word. Well done, Michigan.

HolmeZz
07-18-2007, 01:46 AM
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH AND IT'S TIME FOR A CHANGE!

I AM NOT A NUGGET!

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/pI4pEtpBU0A"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/pI4pEtpBU0A" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

Too soon.

Ultra Peanut
07-18-2007, 02:04 AM
It's never too soon for the two-time Slammy Award winner to make his entrance!

mlyonsd
07-18-2007, 07:31 PM
Well this was another brilliant move by the democratic leadership in congress. If anything they pushed republicans farther from their cause.

At some point I would hope the dim bulbs on this board would recognize the dems have no intention of ending the Iraq conflict before the '08 election.

Anyone thinking the dems are really trying to end the war is either to dim witted to realize they are wrong or too partisan to acknolwedge the truth.

ClevelandBronco
07-18-2007, 08:23 PM
Were I a NeoCon Fanboy I'd use illegal immigration as an excuse to invade Mexico and link it to Al Queda.

Good idea. It would give us somewhere to go when all the rest of the Mexicans get here.

irishjayhawk
07-18-2007, 08:49 PM
Well this was another brilliant move by the democratic leadership in congress. If anything they pushed republicans farther from their cause.

At some point I would hope the dim bulbs on this board would recognize the dems have no intention of ending the Iraq conflict before the '08 election.

Anyone thinking the dems are really trying to end the war is either to dim witted to realize they are wrong or too partisan to acknolwedge the truth.


And that's the sad mark of what American politics have become (or always was).

Same goes for Impeachment.

And while the I-word floats above, the only thing that gets me with the whole thing is the bj versus everything W's done. It just seems silly to impeach for lying about a bj while doing nothing against this administration. But I digress.

Mr. Kotter
07-18-2007, 10:46 PM
And that's the sad mark of what American politics have become (or always was).

Same goes for Impeachment.

And while the I-word floats above, the only thing that gets me with the whole thing is the bj versus everything W's done. It just seems silly to impeach for lying about a bj while doing nothing against this administration. But I digress.

:spock:


:shake:

Calcountry
07-19-2007, 12:01 AM
So, who will leave the Senate first, Robert Byrd or Ted Kennedy?

ChiefaRoo
07-19-2007, 12:23 AM
Byrds going to die in his seat.

bkkcoh
07-19-2007, 09:18 AM
Well this was another brilliant move by the democratic leadership in congress. If anything they pushed republicans farther from their cause.

At some point I would hope the dim bulbs on this board would recognize the dems have no intention of ending the Iraq conflict before the '08 election.

Anyone thinking the dems are really trying to end the war is either to dim witted to realize they are wrong or too partisan to acknolwedge the truth.

If the troops were out of Iraq and the war was over, what would the major election issue be for 2008? :hmmm:

penchief
07-19-2007, 11:39 PM
If the troops were out of Iraq and the war was over, what would the major election issue be for 2008? :hmmm:

We may not have to worry about it. The fast track this administration is taking toward authoritarianism could very well result in no election at all in 2008.

I just don't think they're going to be willing to give up the unchecked power they've built for themselves.

ChiefaRoo
07-19-2007, 11:42 PM
We may not have to worry about it. The fast track this administration is taking toward authoritarianism could very well result in no election at all in 2008.

I just don't think they're going to be willing to give up the unchecked power they've built for themselves.

You are a Kook of the first order. Congratulations. NO GET OFF MY INTERNET!

penchief
07-19-2007, 11:54 PM
You are a Kook of the first order. Congratulations. NO GET OFF MY INTERNET!

I'm not a kook. Hell, six months ago even I didn't think they were capable of doing that. But there was also a time I didn't think they were capable of stealing a presidential election, but they did.

There was a time I didn't think they would really invade and occupy a another country without just cause, in spite of the truth, and against the instincts of nearly the entire world. But they did.

I'm willing to break it down if you are. How can you ignore what they've done to damage this country's reputation, weaken us both militarily and strategically, and to steal the "American Dream" from us so that they can party like it's 1999?

Mr. Kotter
07-20-2007, 06:37 AM
We may not have to worry about it. The fast track this administration is taking toward authoritarianism could very well result in no election at all in 2008.

I just don't think they're going to be willing to give up the unchecked power they've built for themselves.

:spock:


LMAO










:shake:

patteeu
07-20-2007, 10:48 AM
I don't have any objection to forcing people to get up there and read the phone book during filibusters, either. I think this should happen each and every time anyone tries to do it.

:clap:

Agree 100%.

I wholeheartedly agree.

While I sympathize with your thoughts here, the reason it doesn't often happen is that it's a lot harder on the side trying to break the filibuster than on the side doing the filibustering. My understanding is that the filibusters only need a small number of people (maybe as few as one) to hold the bill up whereas those trying to invoke cloture need to maintain a quorum if they want to keep the filibusters talking. And of course, they need 60 to actually shut the filibuster down.

patteeu
07-20-2007, 10:55 AM
We may not have to worry about it. The fast track this administration is taking toward authoritarianism could very well result in no election at all in 2008.

I just don't think they're going to be willing to give up the unchecked power they've built for themselves.

ROFL You're a trip sometimes. You don't really believe this do you?

Cochise
07-20-2007, 10:58 AM
ROFL You're a trip sometimes. You don't really believe this do you?

I found that pretty amusing myself.

The libs on ChiefsPlanet all seem to be off the deep end. I wonder if they are giving the reasonable libs out there a bad name, or if this is just par for the course?

penchief
07-20-2007, 11:34 AM
ROFL You're a trip sometimes. You don't really believe this do you?

I'm beginning to worry about it. I didn't think they would go as far as they have already. And their continual pushing of the envelope has me even more worried now. I mean, some of these signing statements and executive orders are getting scary. Some of the hints they've been dropping about, "come November the voters will view things differently," Chertoff's, "I have a gut feeling," etc...

It feels like we're being set up. They've gotten away with everything they've done so far so there is no reason to believe they won't think they could get away with something like that.

I think they're wed to the power they've created for themselves and I think they have proven that they will do anything to keep that power.

stevieray
07-20-2007, 11:38 AM
ROFL You're a trip sometimes. You don't really believe this do you?

He's just projecting his own chaos so he won't have to deal with it.

Mr. Kotter
07-20-2007, 11:40 AM
I'm beginning to worry about it. I didn't think they would go as far as they have already. And their continual pushing of the envelope has me even more worried now. I mean, some of these signing statements and executive orders are getting scary. Some of the hints they've been dropping about, "come November the voters will view things differently," Chertoff's, "I have a gut feeling," etc...

It feels like we're being set up. They've gotten away with everything they've done so far so there is no reason to believe they won't think they could get away with something like that.

I think they're wed to the power they've created for themselves and I think they have proven that they will do anything to keep that power.

Unbelievable. :rolleyes:

Wow. I can't imagine any red blooded American REALLY thinking that. :shake:

patteeu
07-20-2007, 11:55 AM
I'm beginning to worry about it. I didn't think they would go as far as they have already. And their continual pushing of the envelope has me even more worried now. I mean, some of these signing statements and executive orders are getting scary. Some of the hints they've been dropping about, "come November the voters will view things differently," Chertoff's, "I have a gut feeling," etc...

It feels like we're being set up. They've gotten away with everything they've done so far so there is no reason to believe they won't think they could get away with something like that.

I think they're wed to the power they've created for themselves and I think they have proven that they will do anything to keep that power.

Dick Cheney is so wed to power that he has ruled out running for President. I always assumed that he didn't have any ambition to run for the top job. Now, thanks to you, I realize that he will be getting all that power without the dirty business of going through an election. You're probably right about all this. :p

ChiefaRoo
07-20-2007, 12:03 PM
I think the government is controlled by aliens.

bkkcoh
07-20-2007, 01:21 PM
We may not have to worry about it. The fast track this administration is taking toward authoritarianism could very well result in no election at all in 2008.

I just don't think they're going to be willing to give up the unchecked power they've built for themselves.


Back away from the table and put the kool-aid down. you can be treated. :p

Adept Havelock
07-20-2007, 03:22 PM
I'm beginning to worry about it. I didn't think they would go as far as they have already. And their continual pushing of the envelope has me even more worried now. I mean, some of these signing statements and executive orders are getting scary. Some of the hints they've been dropping about, "come November the voters will view things differently," Chertoff's, "I have a gut feeling," etc...

It feels like we're being set up. They've gotten away with everything they've done so far so there is no reason to believe they won't think they could get away with something like that.

I think they're wed to the power they've created for themselves and I think they have proven that they will do anything to keep that power.


JMO, but the military of this nation would never let a coup by the Executive branch stand, even if the alternative was Hillary replacing Dubya. It's a little matter of Honor and belief in an oath sworn to the Constitution.

While I agree the administration has overreached on several occasions, I think you've either read Sinclair Lewis's "It Can't Happen Here" or you've seen this classic on TCM or AMC a few too many times. (If not, you should. It's a great flick, and a better novel.)

.

ChiefaRoo
07-20-2007, 04:11 PM
JMO, but the military of this nation would never let a coup by the Executive branch stand, even if the alternative was Hillary replacing Dubya. It's a little matter of Honor and belief in an oath sworn to the Constitution.

While I agree the administration has overreached on several occasions, I think you've either read Sinclair Lewis's "It Can't Happen Here" or you've seen this classic on TCM or AMC a few too many times. (If not, you should. It's a great flick, and a better novel.)

.

I agree unless the aliens told the soldiers to stage a coup.

penchief
07-20-2007, 04:51 PM
JMO, but the military of this nation would never let a coup by the Executive branch stand, even if the alternative was Hillary replacing Dubya. It's a little matter of Honor and belief in an oath sworn to the Constitution.

While I agree the administration has overreached on several occasions, I think you've either read Sinclair Lewis's "It Can't Happen Here" or you've seen this classic on TCM or AMC a few too many times. (If not, you should. It's a great flick, and a better novel.)

.

I would generally agree. Look, I'm not predicting that it's going to happen. All I'm saying is that there has been a gross usurpation of power without any restraints or accountability. They continue to circumvent the laws of this land (very pertinent laws, imo) all in the name of fighting terrorism. Is there anything that isn't worth living in fear for? And when one considers that they show no signs of letting up, one has to wonder where it leads.

To believe that they are above doing it would just be blind to their track record. They've participated in gross abuses of power without an ounce of accountability or shame. They continue to disregard the laws that congress passes so that they can exercise unrestrained power. There is zero transparency and a total invasion of privacy. They've suspended due process for whomever they choose and they've claimed the right to suspend the government. They've chosen to torture and lie in the name of our country and they're claiming the moral authority to do so.

It can be easy to overlook the forest for the trees when you get caught up in partisan politics. But I'm speaking as an American, not a liberal. It's time to put the brakes on the subversives operating out of the White House.

penchief
07-22-2007, 06:32 AM
Dick Cheney is so wed to power that he has ruled out running for President. I always assumed that he didn't have any ambition to run for the top job. Now, thanks to you, I realize that he will be getting all that power without the dirty business of going through an election. You're probably right about all this. :p

He's already got all that power. He's had it for the past six plus years. And he didn't even have to head the ticket to get it.

Ugly Duck
07-22-2007, 06:59 PM
Were I a NeoCon Fanboy I'd use illegal immigration as an excuse to invade Mexico and link it to Al Queda.

Actually, that would work. If we invaded Mexico, some fanatics are bound to pledge allegiance to Bin Laden and then call themselves "Al Qaeda in Mexico." Then you could point at them & say, "See? I was right!"

penchief
07-22-2007, 07:03 PM
Actually, that would work. If we invaded Mexico, some fanatics are bound to pledge allegiance to Bin Laden and then call themselves "Al Qaeda in Mexico." Then you could point at them & say, "See? I was right!"

The Bush Vision has been a self-fulfilling prophecy from the start. There were those who called it that from the start. And it's been proven as such. They'll keep doing it, too. Just look at the hints being dropped lately about future "al-Qaeda attacks."

Never underestimate this administration's willingness to terrorize the electorate with fear. They've done it before and they'll do it again.

ChiefaRoo
07-22-2007, 07:05 PM
The Bush Vision has been a self-fulfilling prophecy from the start. There were those who called it that from the start. And it's been proven as such. They'll keep doing it, too. Just look at the hints being dropped lately about future "al-Qaeda attacks."

Never underestimate this administration's willingness to terrorize the electorate with fear. They've done it before and they'll do it again.

Yeah, those AQ and Taliban types are all hype. I bet you wouldn't say that if you were on that bus with those Koreans the other day.

penchief
07-22-2007, 07:26 PM
Yeah, those AQ and Taliban types are all hype. I bet you wouldn't say that if you were on that bus with those Koreans the other day.

I'm not saying that our problems aren't worsening because they are. What you don't get is that this is the president who said he'd make it better yet he's done nothing but exasperate the problem until it matched his political rhetoric.

The problems we are experiencing now is the result of this administration's own actions and nothing more. Even a slightly more pragmatic approach would have yielded less damaging prospects to our country's future. Everything they've done has weakened our position and strengthened al-Qaeda's and Iran's.

If that's not the definition of a self-fulfilling prophecy, I don't know what is. Everything this administration has done has made it worse yet some of you believe that Bush has the Midas Touch. Why is that?