View Full Version : Draft?????????????????
04-27-2001, 10:42 AM
I think we had a great one!!!!!!!!!! but what do all of you think. ido hope that green can get past his injury and play all year. oh well just wanted to ask.
04-27-2001, 10:55 AM
Yes, it accomplished a lot for the Chiefs.
If you look purely at what we did with the choices we had (9 draft picks), and who was available, my personal opinion is that it stunk.
Now, let me also say that none of us have any idea what these players will ultimately bring to our team, but based off of the unprofessional eye, I thought we drastically underachieved.
A project like Downing was a huge theoretical mistake when there were 3 excellent established DT's still available.
Not taking a LB in the 3rd or 4th rd. was a big mistake.
Taking a TE and FB with a valuable draft pick in the 4th and 5th round was a mistake, especially when you consider that these players are generally avilable via FA, and are cap friendly and experienced. Not to mention, we already have the best TE in football and several capable backups.
The NFL Draft is about need and value. 2 things that escaped our thinking with the majority of our draft.
04-27-2001, 11:13 AM
I have come to accept (maybe even like) the idea of having Green on our side. Now that the deal is done, I realise that it may be for the best. Having stubbornly pined for Beuerlein, Collins, Carter/Tuiasosopo/Weinke as our QBs on opening day, with the 12th pick used on a DT......I have reluctantly settled for Green, Holmes, Horne and a barely changed Defense.
Our draft (from the 3rd round on) was, at best, unremarkable. While I think we got some good individual players, we also drafted a lot of projects who will take time, at some stacked positions?!?! We needed help on the D-line, with WR, CB, OG and LB after that. What we got was:
a 3rd round reach at DT: Downing might be a good, solid, hard-working, run-stuffing DT which is exactly what we need. However, I doubt he's ready to contribute right away, and the fact that he presumably would have been available (much?) later in the draft, and meant we passed over some good LBs etc. to get him @ #70-something is disappointing.
a punk WR: I'm not much of a fan of Bobby Bowden, and his dealing with players requiring discipline (see Jano). This draft move seems to contradict DVs insistence of surrounding himself with good people. He might be a player....will he be worth it? As somebody mentioned on another thread, keep him away from our innocent SlyMo :)
a good DE: I'm happy with Beisel, his work ethic, ability and draft position. Hopefully he can platoon in and out of the DE position immediately, and provide some good pressure on the passer.
a FB!: Simply, WHY? I can't be convinced we need a back-up FB at the expense of a 4th round choice when we'll have multiple WR sets, a top-tier starting FB, and another guy who presumably could play FB if necessary in Moreau. On the flip side, he really looks like he's a good player. Can block, can run/catch.....seems as though he could do really well, but when will he get the chance????
a TE!: Equally confusing. Also seems like a solid player who could develop into something special. But unless TG gets away (shudder at the thought) when will he be used???
a 3rd down back: Good choice in the 5th round if we had taken care of our need positions by then (which IMO we hadn't). I like having him on board, but we are chock full of RB options. May be used for KR/PR duties? Might turn out to be a good slot WR?
guard, safety depth: Encouraging that DV mentioned that Sulfsted will compete with Blackshear. I wonder if he thinks he's good enough to really compete already. That would mean he was a steal in the 6th. Harts could excel on STs while he gets up to speed with the NFL @ safety.
the Green Mile: Worth a shot? Maybe. But I would have preferred to see DT addressed more seriously.
IMO we don't have the personnel for a top 10 defense. The Crockett signing flat out sucks IMO. If Dennis/Bartee can't keep him on the bench we have a problem. Our LBs are solid IMO. I expect much better play out of Edwards, and much more PT for Maz in the middle. Our other OLB spot will survive with either Bush (who can't really be as bad as he was for us last season), Atkins or O'Neal (whoever steps up in pre-season). I reluctantly think this looks like the best of the 3 parts of our D. Our D-line is strong at the ends, and will be solid in the middle with Browning, if Dan Williams gets a wake-up call and stays healthy.
I find myself putting far too much hope in Greg Robinson to turn this defense around. And defense has never been Denver's strong point........Last year I expected a lot of improvement when we got Willie Shaw, so I'm gunshy of what coaching will do for us! I hoped this season that our personnel would get shaken up enough to look like our D was going places. Chet got released and I really thought we were going to be aggressive. Since then we have done little. Now I rely on coaching to bring out the best in us again, and that makes me a bit uncomfortable.
Having said that, I expect an improved team on and off the field this year. Our record may not reflect that much yet, but I think we'll get on the right track.
JMO........in a (very big) nutshell.
04-27-2001, 04:14 PM
Most of our picks were drafted at positions where they could compete for roster spots of DT- McGlockton, WR- Lockett, FB- Bennett, TE- Drayton, OG- Szott, and S- Atkins who moved to George's roster spot at LB.
In general, our picks were among the best at their position in acceleration (10 yard dash) and lateral quickness (20 yard shuttle), had good strength for their intended position and role on our team, and got better and more productive with more experience. If the "experts" stacked their boards giving extra consideration for acceleration, lateral quickness, strength, and production in their last season, they might have given the Chiefs draft better grades.
04-27-2001, 04:16 PM
That's a good point. I didn't realise that they had those attributes in common. I still however, wonder why they chose to bulk up at TE and FB given what we already have, or could get cheaply through FA if we were in a pinch. Having said that, Baber and Layne could both turn out to be excellent players.....I just don't see how they can contribute unless we have a bad injury situation.
04-27-2001, 07:56 PM
My main problem with the draft was the picks the Chiefs made in round 3. Downing, DT, could have been selected in round 5. Minnis was not a good pick in round 3, IMO. I would have preferred we drafted a LB and CB in round 3. Brian Allen or Carlos Polk would have been good choices at LB. Brock Williams, who went to the Vikings in round 3, was available at CB for the Chiefs in round 3. All three of these players could have helped the Chiefs. I didn't consider DT to be a major weakness of the team before the draft. As far as drafting a WR in round 3, we could have picked up a veteran WR to help out after the teams start cutting their veterans. Besides, we have Catmo, Alexander, Horne, Hall, and Parker on the roster.
No, in the third round I would have drafted LB and CB and picked a DT in round 5 instead of drafting a TE. For the most part, I liked the picks in the other rounds. I especially liked the pick of Derrick Blaylock in round 5. If he makes the team, he could be a special player with his 4.35 speed. We haven't had that kind of speed since Joe Delaney.
04-27-2001, 08:27 PM
Layne (1.61) had a better 10 yard dash time than A. Thomas (1.63) and a faster 20 yard shuttle time (4.19) than Norris (4.50), Tomlinson (4.21), McAllister (4.46), Henry (4.42), Thomas (4.44), and Barlow (4.31). His yards/carry average and td/carry average indicates he has good run instints. And he's a good receiver. I think if Tomlinson hadn't been at TCU, Layne would have been a 1000 yard rusher as feature back in a one back offense. I think he better fills a dual role of being #2 fullback in two back formations and #3 running back in one back formations than Moreau. It looks like we're going to be running a lot of inside traps with Wiegmann or Waters at center. A fireplug fullback with good run instincts, excellent lateral quickness, and good acceleration like Layne might be the perfect fit for this new offense.
Dunn has chronic knee problems and comparing Baber to other te's in 10 yard dash (1.59/Crumpler 1.68, Holloway 1.65, and Stewart 1.71), the 20 yard shuttle (4.19/Heap 4.36, Crumpler 4.43, Holloway 4.40, and Stewart 4.40), the 225# bench press (22 reps/Heap 19, Crumpler 22, Holloway 20) plus his production in college probably made him to good to pass up at #141.
04-27-2001, 08:34 PM
Like most I never heard of Downing. Yoswif got me current. Now I will wait and see. If he produces I will really be in Vermeils corner. But most of these picks have the samething, potential much greater than their present condition. Minnis is an exceptional lucky pick as is Blaylock. Minnis is already better than Morris and will press Horne at 3rd wr.
04-27-2001, 09:21 PM
Minnis was a Belitnikoff award finalist in one of the best years ever for college wide receivers. He was among the best at his position in acceleration (1.46 10 yard dash) and lateral quickness (4.06 20 yard shuttle). And our biggest immediate need was a replacement for Lockett at slot wr in our 3 wr formations.
This was also one of the best years ever for college run stuffing defensive tackles and we have a starting position open after McGlockton's release. Carl has had good luck with Big East defensive tackles in the middle and late rounds (Browning and Barndt). Downing compares favorably to Stroud in acceleration (1.69/1.80 in the 10 yard dash), strength (27/21 reps on 225# bench press), production in his final year ( 62 tackles, 4th among Big East DL, 9 tackles for loss/57 tackles, 4.5 tackles for loss) and reportedly has good lateral quickness which Carl and Dick seem to be looking for in our players. Buffalo was picking right after us in the third round, had a huge hole at defensive tackle, and would naturally be looking at a local talent like Downing to fill it.
04-27-2001, 09:28 PM
One difference in this years picks that struck me is size. Gunther always talked about getting "big physical rangy" guys. This year we got smaller, but maybe more agile guys.
04-27-2001, 09:45 PM
Gunther's obsession with "size" was something that I could never understand.
I could understand that when choosing between two equal athletes, you would want to select the larger of the two, but Gunther never seemed to enter talent into the equation.
I think Vermeil has a much better grasp of his goal, and he has a much better grasp for selecting those players that will flourish in his system. He scouted for quickness off the line (10 yd. dash) rather than the typical 40 yd. times. He also selected players that did well in the shuttle.
Even though we didn't select many "name" players, we selected athletes that were near the top of these categories for their position. We are building a more athletic team that we would have ever seen under Gunther, and because of this, we will be able to do things that our previous staff could have never imagined doing.
I am excited about how the Vermiel Chiefs are taking shape, and I can't wait to see them in regular season action!
04-27-2001, 09:56 PM
The team is pretty well set, although there may be some more cuts and FA pickups, but I want to see how they mesh. How long till training camp? sigh ;)
04-28-2001, 02:03 AM
Originally posted by voyager
Downing, DT, could have been selected in round 5.
Wow, I'm impressed that you had access to ALL of the teams' draftboards. Otherwise, how would you have any idea when someone would be drafted? Did Kiper tell you when these guys would go or whom the Chiefs should pick?
04-28-2001, 02:37 AM
Please at least give do justice...Use Trent Green's name with a Cap.....;)
04-28-2001, 07:35 AM
Great posts. Obviously these guys have good athletic ability and hopefully will pan out into starters eventually for the Chiefs. I wasn't intending to question the validity of the individual selections (except maybe Downing going that early, but you have put forward a good case for why that happened). What I was questioning were our needs at those positions. Basically I was looking to draft defense and what we got were FB/TE/RB. Layne, Baber and Blaylock do all seem worthy of being picked at those positions. Laynes >6 ypc average is excellent, especially when he may have been used in several short yardage situations. Baber seems to have a lot of upside as a receiving TE. Blaylock's speed and ability may make him a steal. What frustrates me some is that these weren't need positions, and I am afraid these guys will be relegated to riding the pine behind out starters until they leave at the first FA opportunity (like Greg Hill, Kevin Lockett etc etc.). But the numbers you quoted clearly show why they were selected, and they look impressive.
04-28-2001, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by yoswif
Minnis was a Belitnikoff award finalist in one of the best years ever for college wide receivers. He was among the best at his position in acceleration (1.46 10 yard dash) and lateral quickness (4.06 20 yard shuttle).
Take a look at Kevin Kasper's speed, quickness and acceleration and vertical for that matter....He was the best all around athlete that ran at the combine....Plus he is much bigger and stronger than Minnis and doesn't bring mental baggage....Kasper could have been had in the 6th round thus making Minnis a horrible pick in the 3rd....
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