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View Full Version : Is Bin Laden dead or in hiding?


jAZ
07-18-2007, 01:46 PM
Seems like all of his videos are always old ones.

What do you think?

Bowser
07-18-2007, 01:52 PM
I'll vote hiding, but really, who knows? He could have well been incinerated in a bomb strike for all we know. Of course, you'd think the White House would be all over that if they ever got that kind of info.

memyselfI
07-18-2007, 02:00 PM
Where is the 'both' option?

Do you really think if he died they'd have him buried some place where he could be found? :hmmm:

Hydrae
07-18-2007, 02:00 PM
He is probably living in Modesto or something.

Cochise
07-18-2007, 02:14 PM
He is probably living in Modesto or something.

He was in the Republican debates. Rudy Giuliani got in his face once, it was pretty entertaining.

jAZ
07-18-2007, 02:14 PM
I don't think the WH knows his status, but the lack of any new video seems to suggest he's not making any more tapes.

Chief Henry
07-18-2007, 02:20 PM
Dead, burried under some pile excrement.

ct
07-18-2007, 02:27 PM
Alive and well in the States, working as a java contractor.

Radar Chief
07-18-2007, 02:27 PM
I'll vote hiding, but really, who knows? He could have well been incinerated in a bomb strike for all we know. Of course, you'd think the White House would be all over that if they ever got that kind of info.

Not necessarily. Bin Hideín is beginning and end of the GWOT to many. If itís found heís dead, that pretty much ends the need for a GWOT to those people.

Eric
07-18-2007, 02:29 PM
pakistan.

The US needs pressure Musharif. There is gonna be a civil war there. They have nukes. yikes.

Adept Havelock
07-18-2007, 02:49 PM
Eric doesn't like Pakistan yet he refrained from starting a thread about it. Perhaps last night taught him a bit of restraint.

Then again, he may not like restraint either.

I'm guessing OBL is dead, but it wouldn't shock me to find out he's alive.

trndobrd
07-18-2007, 02:52 PM
I'm guessing he is dead. Perhaps killed by a thermobaric bomb and his remains are nothing more than a thin coating on the inside of a cave. Or, the kidney problems finally caught up with him and his inner circle quietly decided it's better not to let the world know that the Bogey Man is dead (or that he died heroically, poisoned by his own body waste).

Hydrae
07-18-2007, 03:21 PM
Oh c'mon, Osama wasn't even involved in 9-11. :shake:

http://www.public-action.com/911/oblintrv.html





;)

Eric
07-18-2007, 03:25 PM
Eric doesn't like Pakistan yet he refrained from starting a thread about it. Perhaps last night taught him a bit of restraint.

Then again, he may not like restraint either.

I'm guessing OBL is dead, but it wouldn't shock me to find out he's alive.

Why don't you ban people from starting topics.

I am sure that would do wonders for this board. It would liven it up.

Saulbadguy
07-18-2007, 03:27 PM
Saudi Arabia.

StcChief
07-18-2007, 04:06 PM
Pakistan / Afgan border area with the rest, haboured by general population.

sh1t is about to hit the fan.

Fishpicker
07-18-2007, 05:44 PM
hiding in Pakistan.

mlyonsd
07-18-2007, 08:25 PM
Interesting question. Where's the I don't know option?

If you think about it, what benefit would AQ have by admitting he was dead if he died hiding in a cave? I don't think he'd be seen as a martyr if that happened.

If he died by some other means than a shoot out keeping it quiet would only help keep his name in the media.

Dunno. When he does go and it's not by our means I hope it's from a long, long fight with a terminal cancer.

wazu
07-18-2007, 08:38 PM
I think when Bush stated that he really didn't care about catching Osama, they must have figured that was a good time to stop making videos and let things cool down some more. It helps them to plan their next assault of the U.S. with fewer interruptions, and gives Bush a little more breathing room to focus on Iraq and forget about our #1 enemy Pakistan.

Logical
07-18-2007, 08:53 PM
I voted hiding, but I think it is possible he has been killed and the Bush administration has the CIA or another agency creating the videos to help maintain the countries fear factor.

One thing that leads me to believe he is dead is that he was suffering from Kidney failure, I don't see how he could be getting the needed dialysis while hiding out in caves and constantly moving around.

Adept Havelock
07-18-2007, 08:55 PM
I voted hiding, but I think it is possible he has been killed and the Bush administration has the CIA or another agency creating the videos to help maintain the countries fear factor.

I don't recall seeing Joe Rogan in any of those videos.

Tribal Warfare
07-18-2007, 09:03 PM
The man is dead, he probably died due to failing organs without his dialysis machine handy, and proper medical care.

jAZ
07-18-2007, 11:07 PM
I voted hiding, but I think it is possible he has been killed and the Bush administration has the CIA or another agency creating the videos to help maintain the countries fear factor.
Well, you are right about one thing... sort of.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IntelCenter

IntelCenter
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
IntelCenter is a US company founded in 1993. It is based near Washington, in Alexandria, Virginia.

The company "is a private contractor working for intelligence agencies".[1] Its stated purpose is to "study terrorist groups and other threat actors and disseminating that information in a timely manner to those who can act on it. We look at capabilities and intentions, warnings and indicators, operational characteristics and a wide variety of other points in order to better understand how to interdict terrorist operations and reduce the likelihood of future attacks."

Ben N. Venzke is CEO. It has a sister company, Tempest Publishing.

"Al-Qaeda" tapes
April 2006: A video featuring Qaeda no. 2 Ayman al-Zawahiri, in which he said the US military had "seen only 'loss, disaster and misfortune' in Iraq", "was first obtained by IntelCenter".[2].
In June 2006, a video of "20th hijacker" Fawaz al-Nashimi, who died in a shootout in Saudi Arabia in 2004, "was released by IntelCenter".[3]
On 30 September 2006, IntelCenter "made available" a 18-minute Al-Qaeda tape in which Al-Zawahiri called Bush "a deceitful charlatan".[4].
On 2 October 2006, IntelCenter and Venzke were again referenced as a source in an article detailing a silent Al Qaeda video recently released in which two 9/11 hijackers, Muhammad Atta, and Zaid Al-Jarrah, read their last will and testaments[5].
On 4 July 2007, an al-Zawahiri video was "provided by al-Qaeda's As-Sahab Media to ... IntelCenter".[6] Another US-based intelligence group, SITE, "said it had obtained the tape ahead of its release on the internet by militant web sites".[7] The video was "first reported by IntelCenter and SITE".[8]

jAZ
07-18-2007, 11:14 PM
http://www.blacklistednews.com/view.asp?ID=3800


Proof Bin Laden Tape Is 5-Year-Old, Re-Released Footage

Published on Wednesday, July 18, 2007.

Source: Prison Planet - Paul Joseph Watson

Why did IntelCenter, the middleman between "Al-Qaeda" and the media, a group that has government and Pentagon ties, re-release old footage and why did the media report it as new when it had already aired twice before?

The Associated Press ran the tape as a top story on Saturday under the headline "Bin Laden Appears in New al-Qaida Video".
Euro News, the propaganda arm of the European Union broadcast in dozens of countries around Europe, described the footage as "apparently new".

"Possible New Message From Osama Bin Laden," reported ABC News, noting that "a brief clip of an older-looking Osama bin Laden is contained in a new al Qaeda videotape," when in reality the graying in Bin Laden's beard was exactly the same as when he appeared in a 2001 videotape, while also wearing the exact same jacket.

The footage was not new and any small amount of cursory research would have verified that fact, and yet the media went full board with the story, creating the illusion that it was new, while rabid Neo-Cons lauded the tape as another reason for keeping U.S. troops in Iraq while fearmongering about upcoming terror attacks at home.

The footage first appeared in May 2002, having been released by a Pakistani security official to the Al-Ansaar Islamic news agency, based in Birmingham, England. This CBS video clip clearly shows the same footage as the apparent "new" tape.

Here is a screenshot from the 2002 tape (right) compared to the new tape (left). Notice the sloping mountain in the left background.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/july2007/180707osama4.jpg

Sources indicate that the footage was shot in either October 2001 or March 2002, with the earlier date being the favorite as Bin Laden's appearance matches with the footage from a different tape that was released in October 2001.

Al-Jazeera said they had the footage as far back as October 2001, but chose not to air it as they saw it as "not newsworthy" and "nothing more than a PR stunt." Six years later, and with the footage having been released on two separate occasions already, the western media insinuated that the tape was new and splashed it everywhere as a top headline.

In our previous groundbreaking investigation, we exposed IntelCenter, the middleman between "Al-Qaeda's media arm" and the press, and the organization that routinely obtains the tapes, as little more than a Pentagon front group staffed by individuals with close connections to the military-industrial complex.

IntelCenter were also behind the release of the "new" Osama tape - having previously released the same footage (the second time it had appeared) in October 2003!

IntelCenter issued a tacit warning that the footage may be re-hashed when they released the "new" tape to the media, but they failed to mention the fact that they released portions of the exact same clips in October 2003. The screenshots of Bin Laden which clearly correlate with the "new" tape were on their website all along, and yet they still labeled the footage as "significant". IntelCenter knew the tape was definitely old, yet their meandering uncertainty left doubts that the media exploited to the full in claiming the footage may be new.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/july2007/180707osama3.jpg
The screenshot from IntelCenter's website from a tape released in October 2003 clearly match with screenshots from the "new" tape, a fact completely ignored by both IntelCenter themselves and the mass media.

Even a senior Bush administration official admitted to Newsbuster, "Intelligence agencies have determined the video was previously aired as a portion of a longer show first on MBC TV (Middle East broadcast station) on April 17, 2002," and yet retractions to the supposition that the footage was new are nowhere to be seen in the media.

"What's the result of the MSM's sloppy "air-first-verify-later" approach? The worldís most evil and despicable terrorists are given tons of free air time and print exposure," adds Newsbuster.

Even if you believe that Al-Qaeda itself is deciding to re-package old footage and constantly re-release it, and that this isn't a crude propaganda ploy on behalf of IntelCenter in collusion with the Neo-Cons, why are the government and the media consistently affording lavish attention and giving prominence to such activity, aiding the terrorists to spread their propaganda ad infinitum?
It would be foolishly naive to think that the re-release of this tape - for the third time running - has little to do with the fact that the Bush administration has been ramping up the fearmongering and hinting at the inevitability of another attack over the past two weeks - ostensibly for political purposes to mute dissent.

Six months after the failed "surge" in Iraq and with Bush's approval ratings sliding to all time lows while calls for impeachment reach a crescendo, a slew of information threatening a new Al-Qaeda attack gets released and up pops Osama - in a tape that is re-hashed for a third time - to validate the Neo-Cons insistence that to leave Iraq is to hand the terrorists a victory. That tape is released by an organization with clear links to the military-industrial complex who had knowingly released the same footage years earlier.

Is all this a coincidence, or does such chicanery and crass manipulation of the electorate and the political process demand an immediate Congressional investigation as to why the U.S. government and its lapdog media fronts are working with the terrorists to artificially boost their profile while scaring the holy crap out of the American people at the most politically opportune moments?

Radar Chief
07-19-2007, 11:37 AM
Iíve been saying this for a while.
OBLís favorite form of communication is video. Other jihadiís have even lamented his camera-seeking propensity.
But after we lowered the average height of Torra Borra with thermo-baric bombs, there hasnít been a single new video seen. Plenty of audio, but no new video.
And for every audiotape release where we have experts claiming itís OBL himself, we have a typically equal number of experts claiming it isnít.
So that leaves at least me asking why the sudden change? Is he hiding his location? Didnít stop him before. After a news show revealed that studying and identifying the rocks in the background established his general location, he switched tactics to using a hanging sheet as a backdrop and we still got nearly weekly videos.
Is he hiding his failing health, not wanting to let his minions see him weak? Possibly.
I personally think heís buried under several thousand tons of rock in Afghanistan. It was just too sudden a shift, IMO.

Mr. Laz
07-19-2007, 11:47 AM
i still think he's dead


imo he died in that first week or two of heavy battle. He's smart enough to have tapes saved up so they can keep pretending like he's still alive.

one of those caves got blown up with him in it.


They will hide his death forever.

Cochise
07-19-2007, 12:10 PM
i still think he's dead


imo he died in that first week or two of heavy battle. He's smart enough to have tapes saved up so they can keep pretending like he's still alive.

one of those caves got blown up with him in it.


They will hide his death forever.

Possible, but there have been instances after the first week or two of battle where he referred to more current events. I think he referred to the london train bombings, for example.


What I would do, if I were in charge of this, and we found his body or conclusive proof that he is dead? I would bury it.

If we had a body, I'd have it photographed, take DNA samples, etc. Then he'd be burned and scattered in a hog pen someplace. The records sealed for 20, 30, 50 years. Don't let AQ use him as a martyr. Don't let them use him as a recruiting tool. Let them continue to be confused about if he's alive or not. Let them keep standing around waiting for orders. Let there be confusion about who is in charge.

Nothing to be gained by turning him into a circus exhibit of some kind.

go bowe
07-20-2007, 12:09 AM
Possible, but there have been instances after the first week or two of battle where he referred to more current events. I think he referred to the london train bombings, for example.


What I would do, if I were in charge of this, and we found his body or conclusive proof that he is dead? I would bury it.

If we had a body, I'd have it photographed, take DNA samples, etc. Then he'd be burned and scattered in a hog pen someplace. The records sealed for 20, 30, 50 years. Don't let AQ use him as a martyr. Don't let them use him as a recruiting tool. Let them continue to be confused about if he's alive or not. Let them keep standing around waiting for orders. Let there be confusion about who is in charge.

Nothing to be gained by turning him into a circus exhibit of some kind.you are right about keeping his death a secret and denying him martyrdom...

but i really miss the circus...

especially the elephants and the clowns...

and in the case of iraq, there was a different kind of circus exhibition...

with more morticians wax than face - whodey and ooohsay were one of the best exhibits i've seen in quite awhile...

they looked really, really dead, definitely dead, no question about it dead...

Logical
07-20-2007, 12:18 AM
Possible, but there have been instances after the first week or two of battle where he referred to more current events. I think he referred to the london train bombings, for example.


What I would do, if I were in charge of this, and we found his body or conclusive proof that he is dead? I would bury it.

If we had a body, I'd have it photographed, take DNA samples, etc. Then he'd be burned and scattered in a hog pen someplace. The records sealed for 20, 30, 50 years. Don't let AQ use him as a martyr. Don't let them use him as a recruiting tool. Let them continue to be confused about if he's alive or not. Let them keep standing around waiting for orders. Let there be confusion about who is in charge.

Nothing to be gained by turning him into a circus exhibit of some kind.

Personally I think Cheney would want Osama's death kept secret to keep the ability to scare more Americans with Terror alerts at a higher level.

Saggysack
07-20-2007, 02:15 AM
Alive and hiding. Pakistan's northern tribal areas/Kashmir. Costantly moving between trusted safe havens. Maybe changing appearance occassionally. Won't see him on new footage, it can be a used as a great insight on where he has been, close to what time of year, as well as appearance by visual analysis.

IMO, the days of OBL's travel diaries are long gone.

Silock
07-20-2007, 02:20 AM
Won't see him on new footage, it can be a used as a great insight on where he has been, close to what time of year, as well as appearance by visual analysis.


The background stuff can easily be countered by a bedsheet.

I'm guessing he's dead, but I won't be surprised if they find him hiding somewhere.

Saggysack
07-20-2007, 03:30 AM
The background stuff can easily be countered by a bedsheet.

I'm guessing he's dead, but I won't be surprised if they find him hiding somewhere.

Yes, it can. But it doesn't hide appearance or state of health.

What is the advantage for him releasing new footage? He already has the mystique he wants, might as well have al-Zawahiri motivate their followers. IMO, new video footage of him has the chance to have more negative consequences than postive for him. Audio only has many more advantages. FWIW, last known audio of him was summer 2006. Dated by references he made in the audio.

Silock
07-20-2007, 03:31 AM
Yeah, but that's IF it's even him in the tapes.

True about the appearance and state of health. Still, we're all just guessing here anyway :)

CHIEF4EVER
07-20-2007, 03:40 AM
He is in hiding and scared shitless because Rich Scanlon sent HIM a video saying that Rich is looking for him now and when he finds him.....well.....you know. I fully expect Bin Laden to turn himself in any day now to the US Army under the condition that he never has to face Rich Scanlon.

Saggysack
07-20-2007, 05:40 AM
Yeah, but that's IF it's even him in the tapes.

True about the appearance and state of health. Still, we're all just guessing here anyway :)

I'm pretty sure the video and audio are verified 100x over by many independent and Govt . agencies. I'm not much one for thinking that OBL has doubles. For one thing, it increases his chances of being noticed. It's a lot easier to hide 1 Osama, than 3 or 4.

Agreed, it's all speculation. Unless we have physical proof, we will never know.

a1na2
07-20-2007, 06:07 AM
OBL was on dialysis in 2002. Ask a doctor what the prognosis might be for someone with failing kidneys that doesn't have a portable dialysis machine to carry around with him.

The bombings at Tora-Bora have been talked about for years.

My guess is that he is dead and those that need to know have that data available to them. I don't know how many resources he had, from rumors he had enough money to do what he needed to do to stay healthy. I doubt that he got a kidney transplant, but I'm sure he could afford the surgery. Maybe he shaved his beard and went to the Mayo Clinic.

If he is dead, as many think, the problem is that others have taken his place. If he is alive I'd say that he is still delegating authority or abdicating authority to others.