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oleman47
04-28-2001, 09:14 AM
Clinton's daughter was breaking the law. For those who wished to confiscate Ms Atwater's kids, and prosecute her, what should be done to Bush? Should Bush apologize for his sanctimonious attitude about other parents? I must note that Jenna was not arrested but the offense has more than just a fine as a possible remedy. Is this equal justice?

Actually, it doesn't matter at all. This constant harping by some about irresponsible parenting is.

KCWolfman
04-28-2001, 10:57 AM
First of all Donald, You are skewing facts once again.

No one stated that they WANTED Atwater's children confiscated. That is merely a very very twisted interpretation of your thoughts to make the people who support the officer's rights seem cruel and evil. In retrospect, for those of you that support Atwater, I guess we could say you WANT children hanging out of windows of moving vehicles, don't you?

Secondly, George W. owes no apologies to anyone. All of our children will make mistakes - regardless of the parents. I don't remember seeing any 'sanctimonious' statements from President Bush. If he has made them, please point them out (with links) so that we may see them.

Third - and most important, his daughter should receive NO special treatment whatsoever. Whatever the usual conviction is should be applied here. Please note that several things should be taken into account on the subject. First of all, is this a first offense? Remember that first offenders generally are no convicted as harshly as those who are repeat offenders. Secondly, what is the standard procedure for handling the law broken? Don't whine that she "got off" if most other first offenders with lawyers "got off" as well. Finally, I won't cry if his daughter receives a good stiff penalty for drinking underage. It will make her think twice before doing so again.

oleman47
04-28-2001, 11:08 AM
Actually I was in the process of not posting this for when I wrote it doesn't matter, I realized it really didn't so why post it. I hit the wrong key.

What I was really interested in was the double standard the media uses which got lost in my post.

Russ
I am not always referring to your posts. When I do I say that I am. I am not too sneaky but way too blunt.

KCWolfman
04-28-2001, 11:21 AM
Donald - The media is a double headed monster. Finally, in the age of digital television - BOTH sides are starting to receive equal time.

Dan Quayle is (inappropriately) forever labeled an idiot by the media. Merely because of one mis-spelled word.

Gerald Ford is labeled an idiot (undeservedly) because of his clumsiness.

Welcome to our world.

Frazod
04-28-2001, 11:58 AM
I don't care if Bush's daughters drink. They're kids. Kids drink. It's kind of sad that the media felt compelled to pounce on it this way (the first thing I heard when I turned on the radio this morning).

I also wouldn't care if Chelsea drank. Hell, if Bill and Hillary were my parents, I'd drink plenty. The Clintons make the Bundys look like the Cleavers.

oleman47
04-28-2001, 12:11 PM
Frazod
Your point about Chelsea drinking because of her parents, is this true of Jenna Bush?

Frazod
04-28-2001, 12:16 PM
My point was it must have been hard on Chelsea growing up being raised by two lying, morally-bankrupt weasels who hate each other's guts.

That must have been hard on the poor kid.

oleman47
04-28-2001, 12:23 PM
I agree it must be hard on Jenna too.

Frazod
04-28-2001, 12:31 PM
I have no idea what the Bushs are really like. But until you can provide solid evidence that they are as f#cked up as the Clintons, your undeserved barbs flung in their direction will hold no merit with me.

The barbs I throw at Slicky Willy and his carpetbagging harpy of a wife are quite well deserved.

Somehow I think Jenna probably had it a bit better growing up than Chelsea.

oleman47
04-28-2001, 12:41 PM
Frazod
Just to balance the record. It was Jenna not Chelsea that broke the law. It was Jenna's father that was a drunk and lied to her about it.

ck_IN
04-28-2001, 12:50 PM
Gentlemen this is a non issue.

The girl is a teenager. Teenagers do dumb things. Ask yourselves what would've been said in the media had your teen years been a matter of public record.

I doubt that Jeena is going to 'get off', in fact she may get it worse than otherwise, lest the media trumpet her fathers position and spin a teen mistake into a political episode. What I do find fascinating is the double standard in play here. The media regarded Chelsea as hands off and reported nothing on her. Apparently that doesn't hold for the Bush girls. But at any rate a law was broken, the girl seems contrite and I'm sure the justice system will take its due course. End of issue, except for people who wish to make more of it than should be for their own ends.

Zebedee DuBois
04-28-2001, 12:58 PM
I hardly think the Clintons thought they got any "hands off" treatment. Chelsea's salvation was that she was much younger when her dad became president, and she apparently was never caught breaking the law.

Let me say first that I am not a Clinton fan, endorser, or aplogist, but to think the "Leftists" are going to go easy on the Bushes after 8 years of the Right banging on every Clinton gaffe is naive.

oleman47
04-28-2001, 01:02 PM
Ck-in
I agree her drinking is a non-issue. But do you really believe if Chelsea had broken a law it would have been a non-issue? She was a big issue amongst the conservative talk shows, etc. without breaking any laws.

LapDog
04-28-2001, 01:03 PM
I agree with Zeb.

Would like to add that they might lay off Jenna if they had something else to grab hold of. To date, they haven't been able to find anything really juicy to nail Bush with. So, the Jenna thing will have to do.

Zebedee DuBois
04-28-2001, 01:07 PM
Let me add that I think Jenna's mistake is not an issue. She is just doing what kids do.

Sometimes I think it is a miracle that I or anyone else lived through their teens/20s, with all the crazy stuff I did.

oleman47
04-28-2001, 01:14 PM
I have seen no attacks whatever on Jenna's looks, thoughts, actions or anything. There is only a report about a minor law violation. The conservative reaction that this is an all out attack is not true. My point was, which I blew, that if this was Chelsea all hell would have broken loose.
The news was actually out yesterday and very slowly was mentioned in the press. I didn't see Fox mention it yet. But, I have not been watching the Clinton watchdogs much today.

Frazod
04-28-2001, 06:08 PM
Oleman wrote: "Just to balance the record. It was Jenna not Chelsea that broke the law. It was Jenna's father that was a drunk and lied to her about it."

I never said Chelsea broke the law. All I said was that I felt sorry for her for having a couple of evil scumbags as parents.

And yes, Jenna broke the law. BFD. Show me a teenager that hasn't had liquor at one point or another. As far as I'm concerned, anyone old enough to die for their country is old enough to have a damn beer. I while I obviously don't ever see Jenna going in the army, the idea is the same. It's a BS law.

And as for the lying about it part, I've done lots of crap in my life I wouldn't want my kids to know about. Of course, when I have kids, I probably won't have the liberal media up my a$$ with a microscope looking for every single stupid thing I ever did so they can broadcast it out to the universe.

And if you think a 25 year old DUI is as bad as any of the henious sh!t that Slick Willy did during his eight years of defiling the presidency, then you've got some issues comprehending reality.

ck_IN
04-28-2001, 06:11 PM
I have to differ with you Oleman. If this was Chelsea, I doubt it would be handled any differntly if mentioned at all. The point I was making earlier is that the press (and conservatives) regarded Chelsea as off litmits and rightly so. The only mention I remember made of her was some dimwitted comments about her looks on SNL which were quickly apologized for. I also haven't heard anyone mention this as an attack on the Bush girls. Again it was a minor item on the news, nothing more. The only further mention I've heard is from folks such as yourself pondering 'what if'.

Perhaps Chelsea did nothing. Perhaps she did. Jena did and got caught. Now it's the business of Laura and George, both of which I'm sure have her undivided attention at present. At any rate it's not my concern and the justice system will extract whatever penality it deems appropriate.

Our prosetlyzing on it is needless and quite pointless. So why are we?

DanT
04-28-2001, 11:16 PM
It's already a matter of public record what happened when Chelsea was wrongly thought to be drinking while a teenager, as the excerpted paragraph from the Sept. 2, 1996 Time shows below. OF COURSE there would have been all kind of outrage if she had actually committed the crime.
[Quote follows]
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/archive/1996/dom/960902/public.html
Yet just this month Chelsea got a small taste of gotcha journalism. In the midst of a summer of building houses in Appalachia with her church group and taking ballet lessons, the Sidwell Friends senior went off with her mother the first week in August to tour Amherst, Brown, Harvard, Princeton, Wellesley and Yale. One evening they dined at the Spoleto Restaurant in Northampton, Massachusetts. Two glasses of wine were ordered. The pasta was barely digested before the local paper reported that the underage Chelsea had been drinking. For two days the Boston airwaves and papers buzzed with Chardonnaygate. The state's Alcoholic Beverages Control Commission launched an inquiry. Finally, the newspaper conceded there had been a "misunderstanding." In fact, a White House aide along for the trip had one glass and Hillary the second glass. Chelsea drank water.

oleman47
04-28-2001, 11:35 PM
Thanks DanT. I remember the old Gibson show on MSNBC until he went to Fox which had many guests knocking Chelsea and her upbringing. Mostly, like Limbaugh, Armstrong most of talk radio, it was just snide childish remarks about her looks, or some such. This got a little out of hand and they stopped becuase of bad reaction, then giggled about not being able to talk about her, then began to question if not talking about her was fair.

philfree
04-28-2001, 11:40 PM
Chelsea? Does she have any brothers? And if she does can she out run them? It's an old joke and I couldn't resist.

PhilFree
~To Have A Sense Of Humor~

Pitt Gorilla
04-29-2001, 01:42 AM
Originally posted by oleman47
My point was, which I blew, that if this was Chelsea all hell would have broken loose.

Forgive me, sir, but how could YOU possibly KNOW what would have happened? Passing off this opinion as fact seems rather arrogant, and possibly, misinformed. Do you have solid PROOF that this would have happened?

Rausch
04-29-2001, 01:51 AM
"My point was it must have been hard on Chelsea growing up being raised by two lying, morally-bankrupt weasels who hate each other's guts. "




Oh, I don't know...I'd like to think I made out ok...

oleman47
04-29-2001, 10:50 AM
Any mention of hell is presumptive, I agree. Would you not agree that a party that has a core assumption that anything kids do is the fault of the parents is taking a walk on this? One need only look the current thread on education, or Frazod on Chelsea, or mea culpa on social issues, saying better parenting would cure all ills.
No! Tthe reaction is kids will be kids when it is our group and they are lazy, crack heads if not of our group.
My personal belief is that raising kids is like pushing a string. And I do not fault Bush but the hypocritical right wing press and others for this double standard.

Pitt Gorilla
04-29-2001, 01:51 PM
Sir, you still haven't answered my question. How do you know what WOULD HAVE happened? Do you also know the next powerball numbers?

Zebedee DuBois
04-29-2001, 02:24 PM
The post topic says can you "imagine"; I don't think anyone claimed perfect future sight.
I have no difficulty imagining an outcry from the crowd that thinks anything connected with the name Clinton is automatically evil.

old_geezer
04-29-2001, 02:51 PM
Oleman47

"I do not fault Bush but the hypocritical right-wing press".

Please let me know where I can find and subscribe to the right-wing press. I'm getting sick and tired of the liberal left-wing crap that seems to be all I can find in the news and on the tv. :rolleyes:

KCWolfman
04-29-2001, 03:02 PM
Actually CK is right - The press had their chance with Chelsea and passed on it - merely a minor report and moved on with no follow up.

Remember about 2 years ago when Chelsea started dating an intern? Plenty of ammo there if you ask me.

oleman47
04-29-2001, 03:11 PM
Geezer
Foxnews was developed openly as a right wing instrument as was MSNBC for the balanced opinions regs did not apply to cable.
Papers include Washington Times, many NY papers, Wichita Eagle, Wall Street Journal. Almost all editorial pages are conservative.
Talk radio is 95% conservative.
All net work TV is corporate owned and does for sure reflect that mindset.

Only I remain the last bastion of independent thought. Well, there is Brad, Dubois, oh well maybe the oldest.

ck_IN
04-29-2001, 03:49 PM
<i>Foxnews was developed openly as a right wing instrument as was MSNBC</i>

Let me guess, part of that 'vast right wing conspiracy' right, err left, err correct?

<i>for the balanced opinions regs</i> <i>All net work TV is corporate owned and does for sure reflect that mindset.</i>

Yep ole Dan Blather is real balanced as he hosts Demo fund-raisers, concludes interviews with Hillary by telling her 'we're all pulling for you', and serves softballs to Bill in every interview he's ever conducted.

Pete Jennings (a Canadian btw) is real balanced as he announces in '94 that the election of a GOP Congress amounts to a 'national temper tantrum'.

<i>Almost all editorial pages are conservative.</i>

have you <b>ever</b> read the Wash Post, or the NY Times, or Balt Sun. These are screaming liberal rags that would blame the GOP for Bubonic plage in midevil Europe if they could think of <b>any</b> way to link the two.

<i>I remain the last bastion of independent thought.</i>

Don't hurt yourself patting your own back. Your independent thought sounds as much like liberal clap-trap as my conservative thought sounds likewise to you. But at least I have the good taste not to congratulate myself on it.

oleman47
04-29-2001, 04:24 PM
Just thought of something which is probably worth another thread or two.

they say the secret service was with her so they were looking the other way when Jenna broke the law. This just has to go the Burton committee.

Raiderhader
04-29-2001, 04:33 PM
Oleman,
in response to your comments in the topic starter about W apologizing for his (alleged) sanctamony - why should apologize? Does his daughter still live in his house hold? No. This did not happen on his watch. She is a grown woman who makes her own choices. You can teach and train someone all you want, but that person will still want to try things their way from time to time. That is just human nature. So to suggest the W wasn't a good father is a GREAT BIG (not yelling, just emphasizing big) reach.

oleman47
04-29-2001, 05:01 PM
Must read my comments. I do not blame her nor her father just his criticism of others. It is the right who is blaming parents for their kids behavior. Time again the proposition is put forth if her/his parents had been better parents this would not have happened. Then you must say the same about Bush, but this is not what they say. It is kids will be kids, which is what I say.

tommykat
04-29-2001, 05:02 PM
Zebedee DuBois
I agree with you.......however, Clinton was one of the few that got caught at things. Trying to remember which President had his mistress at his beside when he died? I can't right now, but will if someone wants to know.
People are more concerned with the person's life than with what the President is/or has done that is good. Sad society that we live in now..:(
I'd rather know that all is well with jobs...etc...than whom they have _ _ _ _ _ _! As for the rest I won't go on, because I get into trouble talking politics....:D

KCWolfman
04-29-2001, 08:18 PM
Donald "I do not blame her nor her father just his criticism of others"

Once again, I ask, Please post his criticism of other parents. Post a link and a date as well if you have it.

I have yet to read one negative comment on President Bush and his perception of parents.

oleman47
04-29-2001, 11:11 PM
Bush during the campaign junked his Reform Candidate stance and took up the Character Candidate, which was revisited this week with new twist of religion.

If you really want Bush news. bushreport.com and bushwatch.com and I think there is one called new bushwatch.com.

But rather than countless verbal inanities I think his record in Texas where he sought to deny welfare to any FAMILY that had one of its members committ a minor offense, Molly Ivins 12/2/99, is the most pertinent in this context.

But I am amazed that a Bush supporter does not see the santimonious, hypocritical slop he puts out on a daily basis. If want a quote, you will probably get one tomorrow or go those web sites and get sick on your own.

oleman47
04-29-2001, 11:16 PM
The last diatribe was for Russ.
Sent it before edit.

WisChief
04-30-2001, 07:05 AM
Uhh, is it just me, or does any one else wonder

WHERE THE %&CK WAS HER SS AGENT AND WHY DID HE/SHE LET THIS HAPPEN?

Just wondering? :confused:

KCWolfman
04-30-2001, 09:56 PM
Oleman - Really, if you are going to quote Bush, you should use his quotes instead of slinging slander. Please point out exact quotes instead of expecting us to understand what you mean.

To be perfectly honest, Ivins is a joke. Ivins has no base in reality. Find someone who is a little more middle of the road - like Mao Tse Tung.

Ivins lists her two greatest accomplishments in life as having a Minneapolis police force name a pig after her and being banned from the Texas A&M campus for being to liberal. http://www.sacbee.com/voices/national/ivins/

The same Ivins who has 4 books on President Bush. The same Ivins whose greatest accomplishment is calling President Bush, Shrub?

Tell me, do you take the word of Rush Limbaugh for anything? If not, why do you expect any of us to do the same with Molly IVINsingleallmypatheticlife?

DanT
04-30-2001, 11:03 PM
For anyone interested in a brief bio on Molly Ivins, the Fort Worth-based and nationally-known political columnist, here's a link to one from her home newspaper, the Star-Telegram:

http://www.star-telegram.com/system/static_content/bios/ivins.htm