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dirk digler
07-30-2007, 10:24 PM
The guy just can't be trusted to keep his mouth shut.

Plus it looks like US forces will be siding with Turkey to get rid of the Kurdish guerrillas. To bad Novak outed this mission because now the US can't deny they aren't helping Turkey. What a dumbass.


http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=21734

A New Escapade
by Robert Novak
Posted: 07/30/2007

The morass in Iraq and deepening difficulties in Afghanistan have not deterred the Bush administration from taking on a dangerous and questionable new secret operation. At a high level, U.S. officials are working with their Turkish counterparts on a joint military operation to suppress Kurdish guerrillas and capture their leaders. Through covert activity, their goal is to forestall Turkey from invading Iraq.

While detailed operational plans are necessarily concealed, the broad outlines have been presented to selected members of Congress as required by law. U.S. Special Forces are to work with the Turkish Army to suppress the Kurds' guerrilla campaign. The Bush administration is trying to prevent opening another war front in Iraq that would have disastrous consequences. But this gamble risks major exposure and failure.

The Turkish initiative reflects the temperament and personality of George W. Bush. Even faithful congressional supporters of his Iraq policy have been stunned by the president's upbeat mood, oblivious to the loss of his political base. Despite the failing effort to impose a military solution in Iraq, he is willing to try imposing arms -- though clandestinely -- on Turkey's ancient problems with its Kurdish minority, comprising one-fifth of the country's population.


The development of an autonomous Kurdish entity inside Iraq, resulting from the decline and fall of Saddam Hussein, has alarmed the Turkish government. That led to Ankara's refusal to permit entry of U.S. combat troops through Turkey into Iraq, an eleventh hour complication for the 2003 invasion. As political power grew for the Kurds inside Iraq, the Turkish government became steadily more uneasy about the centuries-old project of a Kurdistan spreading across international boundaries -- and chewing up big pieces of Turkey.

The dormant PKK {Kurdistan Workers Party) Turkish Kurd guerrilla fighters came to life. By June, the Turkish government was demonstrating its concern by lobbing artillery shells across the border. Ankara began protesting, to both Washington and Baghdad, that PKK was using northern Iraq as a base for guerrilla operations. On July 11 in Washington, Turkish Ambassador Nabi Sensoy became the first Turkish official to claim publicly that the Iraqi Kurds have claims on Turkish territory. On July 20 (two days before his successful re-election), Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan threatened a trans-border military incursion into Iraq against the Kurds.

On July 25, Murat Karayilan, head of the PKK Political Council, predicted "the Turkish Army will attack southern Kurdistan." Turkey has a well-trained, well-equipped army of 250,000 near the border, facing some 4,000 PKK fighters hiding in the mountains of northern Iraq. But significant cross-border operations surely would bring to the PKK's side the military forces of the Kurdistan Regional Government, the best U.S. ally in Iraq.

What is Washington to do in the dilemma of two friends battling each other on an unwanted new front in Iraq? The surprising answer was given in secret briefings on Capitol Hill last week by Eric S. Edelman, a former aide to Vice President Dick Cheney and now under secretary of defense for policy. A Foreign Service officer who once was U.S. ambassador to Turkey, he revealed to lawmakers plans for a covert operation of U.S. Special Forces helping the Turks neutralize the PKK. They would behead the guerrilla organization by helping Turkey get rid of PKK leaders that they have targeted for years.

Edelman's listeners were stunned. Wasn't this risky? He responded he was sure of success, adding that the U.S. role could be concealed and always would be denied. Even if all this is true, some of the briefed lawmakers left wondering whether this was a wise policy for handling the beleaguered Kurds who had been betrayed so often by U.S. governments in years past.

The plan shows that hard experience has not dissuaded President Bush from attempting difficult ventures employing the use of force. On the contrary, two of the most intrepid supporters of the Iraq intervention -- John McCain and Lindsey Graham -- were surprised by Bush during a recent meeting with him. When they shared their impressions with colleagues, they commented on how unconcerned the president seemed. That may explain his willingness to embark on a questionable venture against the Kurds.

Logical
07-30-2007, 10:34 PM
OK Novak is a dumbshit, but on the other hand are not the Kurds the only Iraqies we are getting along well with in Iraq. Sort of seems dumb to help Turkey screw with them.

BucEyedPea
07-30-2007, 10:42 PM
I've already known about this for months on anti-war.com. They're usually ahead of the curve on this stuff and impeccably accurate...but someone told me not to believe it. I've read pages on it. Novak IS NOT the first.

Link of whole page of stories going back (http://www.google.com/custom?q=Kurds+and+Turkey&sa=Google+Search&cof=LW%3A510%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2F128.121.216.19%2Fantiwar4.gif%3BLH%3A84%3BAH%3Acenter%3BAWFID%3Ac7dd 53b2d1b358c8%3B&domains=antiwar.com&sitesearch=antiwar.com)

Turkey has already shelled part of Kurdistan. The Kurds may like us in Iraq, and are an ally but they are terrorists too—inside Turkey of course. Their original lands go into parts of Turkey and in Iran. I read we're also supporting the Kurd incursions into Iran too.

dirk digler
07-30-2007, 10:52 PM
OK Novak is a dumbshit, but on the other hand are not the Kurds the only Iraqies we are getting along well with in Iraq. Sort of seems dumb to help Turkey screw with them.

I think that is why they wanted to keep it quiet so not to piss off the Kurds but Novak really screwed that up.

Anyway I think this PKK is a guerrilla outfit and may not be associated with the Kurdish government but I can't say for sure.

dirk digler
07-30-2007, 10:53 PM
I've already known about this for months on anti-war.com. They're usually ahead of the curve on this stuff and impeccably accurate...but someone told me not to believe it. I've read pages on it. Novak IS NOT the first.

Link of whole page of stories going back (http://www.google.com/custom?q=Kurds+and+Turkey&sa=Google+Search&cof=LW%3A510%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2F128.121.216.19%2Fantiwar4.gif%3BLH%3A84%3BAH%3Acenter%3BAWFID%3Ac7dd 53b2d1b358c8%3B&domains=antiwar.com&sitesearch=antiwar.com)

Turkey has already shelled part of Kurdistan. The Kurds may like us in Iraq, and are an ally but they are terrorists too—inside Turkey of course. Their original lands go into parts of Turkey and in Iran. I read we're also supporting the Kurd incursions into Iran too.

I call BS on knowing about this special ops mission months in advance since they just briefed Congress and the President this past week or so.

BucEyedPea
07-30-2007, 10:58 PM
I call BS on knowing about this special ops mission months in advance since they just briefed Congress and the President this past week or so.
Well, there's 11 pages of stories minimum in that link and one story was how we were going to be taking Turkey's side militarily against the Kurds. Don't recall if it was to be a special op per se...bit I recall one article in that whole list titled exactly as that and being about that.

How do you know they're only briefing Congress now and didn't discuss it earlier or if we're already involved and just making it known now?

I seem to recall talking to a soldier at a mall in 1993, who told me the US is usually alreading in an area before officially being made known. Another soldier told me the same thing. Just a thought.

BucEyedPea
07-30-2007, 11:03 PM
Oh, btw, the Kurdish govt is pretty thuggish too. It's in there as well somewhere.

noa
07-30-2007, 11:17 PM
From a recent interview with Novak:

In your new memoir, “The Prince of Darkness,” you complain about the $160,000 you’ve spent on legal fees and claim that your income has taken a dive as a result of your role in this. Can you elaborate?

I left CNN, which was my biggest payer, and my lecture fees were down. I was a little bit untouchable in the eyes of some people. I was off “Meet the Press” for two years. I have a much lower role with Fox News than I had at CNN.

Sounds like he is pretty bitter over the Plame scandal. Maybe this column is the product of that bitterness?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/15/magazine/15WWLN-Q4-t.html?ex=1186027200&en=c6a00bbf62096fd8&ei=5070

BucEyedPea
07-30-2007, 11:18 PM
Here's something on page 12, not sure if it was the same one I read, that links to a titled news report:


Rice Pledges US Help to Turkey Against Kurd Rebels

The date is: April 26, 2006

Too bad the page has expired.
I only save certain ones from there.

ClevelandBronco
07-31-2007, 12:07 AM
Sadly, we forgot to invite you, the Islamic culture, to attend The Enlightenment, although a select few of you managed to peer through the windows. That, and some of you read the society reports in the years since and tried to recreate that party with your own invitees.

We feel bad that most of your invitations got "lost in the mail." You went to all the trouble of keeping watch over the party favors throughout the Dark Ages and all. For that, at least, we're grateful to a whole sea of your fathers.

For instance, some of us are big fans of numbers and mathematics. Good work designing the numerals, guys. And we especially appreciate your efforts on al gebra.

At any rate, please accept our apologies for not including you in what's been happening over the last few centuries. You really should have been there.

Here's an idea: If you could just try to move your culture a few hundred years forward, we could do some incredible things together.

Not interested? That's very disappointing. I guess we'll have to do something about that. Best of luck to you.

noa
07-31-2007, 12:35 AM
Sadly, we forgot to invite you, the Islamic culture, to attend The Enlightenment, although a select few of you managed to peer through the windows. That, and some of you read the society reports in the years since and tried to recreate that party with your own invitees.

We feel bad that most of your invitations got "lost in the mail." You went to all the trouble of keeping watch over the party favors throughout the Dark Ages and all. For that, at least, we're grateful to a whole sea of your fathers.

For instance, some of us are big fans of numbers and mathematics. Good work designing the numerals, guys. And we especially appreciate your efforts on al gebra.

At any rate, please accept our apologies for not including you in what's been happening over the last few centuries. You really should have been there.

Here's an idea: If you could just try to move your culture a few hundred years forward, we could do some incredible things together.

Not interested? That's very disappointing. I guess we'll have to do something about that. Best of luck to you.

Are you pimping Western civilization after the Enlightenment?

ClevelandBronco
07-31-2007, 12:43 AM
Are you pimping Western civilization after the Enlightenment?

I'm pimping Western civilization, especially in the U.S., in 2007.

Cochise
07-31-2007, 06:15 AM
LMAO Nice try.

dirk digler
07-31-2007, 06:29 AM
Well, there's 11 pages of stories minimum in that link and one story was how we were going to be taking Turkey's side militarily against the Kurds. Don't recall if it was to be a special op per se...bit I recall one article in that whole list titled exactly as that and being about that.

How do you know they're only briefing Congress now and didn't discuss it earlier or if we're already involved and just making it known now?

I seem to recall talking to a soldier at a mall in 1993, who told me the US is usually alreading in an area before officially being made known. Another soldier told me the same thing. Just a thought.

Sorry BEP I didn't go through all 11 pages of your links I barely made it through the first half of the page.

I don't know other than what was in the article.

Anyway I don't anyone trying to get the wrong oppression and think I am bashing Bush or conservatives I am just kind of surprised that Novak would blatantly expose a special ops mission that the US wants to keep secret so they can maintain plausible deniability.

I actually support what the US is doing in this case.

BucEyedPea
07-31-2007, 07:48 AM
Anyway I don't anyone trying to get the wrong oppression and think I am bashing Bush or conservatives I am just kind of surprised that Novak would blatantly expose a special ops mission that the US wants to keep secret so they can maintain plausible deniability.

I actually support what the US is doing in this case.

I'm not saying I don't support it or not, either. I think it's a sticky situation,not black or white at all, since Turkey is an ally and a Muslim country with a secular govt. But it's more I can't blame the US here, than anything.

As for the leak, I read once that sometimes those leaks are even deliberate by any given administration. I'd think Novak would have heard it from someone inside. Besides one of those linked stories links to another Iraq site where Kurds are on record knowing which side the US is going to take on this matter.

So all I'm saying, is it can't be that much of a secret.

StcChief
07-31-2007, 12:12 PM
Why would we NOT support Turkey. Kurd rebels invading them? Last thing we want is another war on Turkey Kurd border.

Iran that's a different story altogether.

Taco John
07-31-2007, 12:59 PM
The guy just can't be trusted to keep his mouth shut.




Novak is a reporter. People tell him things because they want those things in the news.

go bowe
07-31-2007, 12:59 PM
insanity, absolute insanity...

attacking kurds anywhere is madness...

they're the only real ally we have in iraq...

are we going to start attacking our allies now?

this is insane, insane i say...

now we will have attacks against us in all 3 areas of iraq....

splended plan...

just splendid...

CHIEF4EVER
07-31-2007, 03:25 PM
Just playing cloak and dagger a bit...........

Could a 'leak' like this not be a subtle ruse to pressure the Kurdish regime in Iraq to put the PKK on a short leash while not confronting them (our Kurdish allies) directly? I am certainly not implying that GWB is capable of such sublety.......

Just a thought.