PDA

View Full Version : NFT: My Lakers to meet Kings on Sunday...


Chiefs Pantalones
05-04-2001, 11:42 PM
Any Lake show fans out there?

In article I just read, Phil makes fun of the Kings players this time. Last year when they met the Kings in the 1st round of the playoffs he made fun of the people there. Just bored. No Chiefs news so...

CG

thoughts on the NBA playoffs? :D

DaWolf
05-05-2001, 12:11 AM
I'm not exactly a Lakers fan (I'm doomed to be a Warriors fan I guess, which if you think being a Royals fan, which I am too, is tough, try being a Warriors fan) but I just love the mind games that Phil plays with Sacramento. And the best part is, it always works.

The Kings will win one game in this series. Chris Webber is going to leave SacTown. They're going to be stuck with the ignorant Jason Williams and his 3 turnovers for every 1 good play, and SacTown will be right back where they belong.

Meanwhile, the Lakers take the Spurs out in the true NBA Finals, and Phil rolls to his 8th title, while he continues to do the owner's daughter. Phil is DaMan... :D

Chiefs Pantalones
05-05-2001, 12:19 AM
DaWolf,

The Spurs are in the Western Conference too. You mean the Conference Finals, right?

LOL! about the owners daughter!

CG

my prediction... The Lakers take on the Raptors in the NBA Finals, and Lakers win it in 5. The reason I chose the Raptors is Toronto has some athletes at center that can clog up the lanes against Philly and they will wear down Iverson. But thats just my opinion.

DaWolf
05-05-2001, 12:22 AM
Cody,
By that comment, I meant the Eastern Conference sucks, and whoever comes out of the West will win the Finals easily, so, to me, the Spurs/Lakers will be the "real" Finals.

Although I wouldn't mind seeing the Mavs pull a shocker or two...

Chiefs Pantalones
05-05-2001, 12:27 AM
Oh I see, DaWolf. My bad.

You are right though, the Eastern Conference is not that good.

And speaking of the Mavs, I got a free Chalupa (even though I don't live in Dallas) I convinced this elderly lady (took advantage of) to give me a free Chalupa because the Mavs scored over 100 points, I told her I was from Dallas. She believed me!!! and gave me a Chalupa! It was hilarious!

CG

that actually happened

and I suggest everyone goes to your local Taco Bell and does this, they will probably believe you.

its worth it...its free

Brock
05-05-2001, 10:10 AM
Jackson is the most overrated coach of all time in any sport.

Chiefs Pantalones
05-05-2001, 01:19 PM
Brock,

Uhh...yeah, you're right, he is the most overrated coach of all time, he's won 7 championships. Six with one team and one more with another and another to come...

yep, sounds overrated to me...sounds like the guy is great at what he does.

CG

thinks that anyone who thinks Phil is overrated hasn't watched the championships he's won.

and plus...when you get criticized, that means you're doing something right

Brock
05-05-2001, 01:42 PM
Cody, wake up. Jackson gravy trained off of Michael Jordan and Tex Winter for his first six championships and now he's doing the same in LA with Tex, Kobe and Shaq. When he wins a championship without the best player in the game on his team, I'll be impressed.

milkman
05-05-2001, 04:05 PM
I'm a Laker fan, and I agree with Brock. He's a better coach than Del Harris, no question, but any number of coaches could have achieved the same as Jackson with the players that he's had.

California Injun
05-05-2001, 10:01 PM
Being a die-hard Lakers fan, I just have to keep this thread near the top.

Sacramento has NOBDODY in the paint to stop Shaq-Daddy! "Floppy" Divac and "Harry Carry" will use their alotment of fouls as O'Neal improves upon his 21-34 FT numbers.

The Spurs just received a HUGE loss with Shannon Anderson getting clocked by Juwan. This is a monumental loss for the Spurs and is akin to having Derrck Fisher 86'ed on the Lakers.

Speaking of impersonations....

Doesn't Chris Webber do a great one of Barry Bonds when it comes to the post-season?

milkman
05-06-2001, 05:41 AM
Injun,
That's Derek Anderson.
That foul by Howard was stupid, but I don't believe that it was intentional or dirty in any way. He just came in at a bad angle on Anderson.

The Bad Guy
05-06-2001, 12:49 PM
Brock,

Great coaches get the most out of great players in the NBA.

There isn't a coach out there who could take a bunch of mediocre players and win a ring.

Popavich did it with Duncan, Tomjonavich did it with Olajuwon, and Jackson did it with Jordan and Shaq.

I love the people who like to say "well any coach could win a championship with the Lakers".

This is the furthest thing to the truth.

I've been a Lakers fan since I was very little, and saw some great teams fall because of bad coaches.

In 1997, the Lakers had the best team they had since 1998. They had a starting 5 of Van Exel, Eddie Jones, Rick Fox, Elden Campbell and Shaq with Horry and a young Kobe Bryant coming off the bench. That team shouldn't of lost in any 7 game series.

However, due to Del Harris inadequate coaching, the team fell and fell hard.

Then in 1999, the Lakers hire Kurt Rambis to run the show, and again, they had no discipline despite the fact they now had a more mature Kobe Bryant, sharpshooter in Glen Rice and Shaq to utilize.

Phil Jackson comes in during his first year in LA, and gets the whole team to buy into a defensive philosophy, which is something no Lakers team had done since the Pat Riley days.

Phil Jackson has 2 superstars on this team, and a bunch of everyday Joes surrounding them. Last year, he had Rice, but Rice couldn't fit. AC Green, Brian Shaw, Derek Fisher, Robert Horry, Fox and an aging Ron Harper aren't exactly what I call an all-star cast, but they played above expectations under Phil.

This year, Ho Grant, Rick Fox, and Fisher have helped this team tremendously in the first round, but it will be if Jackson can keep Shaq and Kobe focused in order to bring another ring to LA.

Jerry Sloan has had 2 superstars on his team for the last 10 years, and what has that clown done? Nothing.

Just because you have dominant players in the NBA doesn't guarantee any ring.

Coaches ensure that, and until MJ, Pippen, Shaq and Kobe met Jackson, they never won anything.

Great coaching, great players and tough defense produce championships. Without any of those ingredients, you don't have a shot.

Ask the Portland Trailblazers about that. They have a lot of superstars but a horrible leader, and look where they are.

Just my .02 on why Phil Jackson should be given the credit he deserves.

Brock
05-06-2001, 12:53 PM
Yeah, great coaches like Pat Riley. Makes all the difference.

The Bad Guy
05-06-2001, 01:36 PM
Pat Riley was a great coach.

Now, he's middle of the road.

Look at the talent the Heat have, and look at what he continually does with them.

Eddie Jones, Grant, Mason, Mourning, and Hardaway yet he managed to get swept by the Hornets.

Pat Riley has made no difference in Miami, nor did he make much of a difference in New York.

Brock
05-06-2001, 02:38 PM
To reiterate: when Jackson wins something without the best player in the game on his team (i.e. Chuck Daly, Greg Popovich, Rudy Tomjanovich), then I'll be impressed. Until then, he will always be a coattail rider to me.

California Injun
05-06-2001, 04:35 PM
Brock and Scoop:

Do you guys watch any sports at all?

As if Tomjanovich had NOBODY on those Rocket teams that won the Championships?

Can you name the last Knicks coach BEFORE Riles that took their team to the Finals?

Want to know how good Jackson is? Swap him with Dunleavy straight across and the Blazers win the Title with that talent.

Ever wonder WHY GMs hire Jackson and nobody else?

What did Doug Collins do with Jordan and Pippen if your premise is base upon "talent level"?

And how come the Magic never won the Title with Shaq, Penny, Grant, and Nick Anderson? (Oh that's right, the UNDERMANNED Rockets ,with that HOF coach Rudy, was the reason.)

Pulllleeeze.....

DaWolf
05-06-2001, 04:36 PM
Then again, how many championships did Jordan win without Phil? How many champuionships did Shaq win without Phil? Sometimes the coaches need the players, and the players need the coaches. I agree, he's not the greatest coach of all time or anything like that, but he is a very good coach who has accomplished great things. He didn't allow the Chicago situation to melt down with a guy like Rodman or an egomaniac like Jordan, and kept Pippen happy with his role. Outside of that, Rodman has melded down in both Sabn antonio and Dallas, while Pippen has been bitching about his role in both Houston and Portland. For a guy who has been given all the talent in the world and never gets a damn thing done, look at Dunleavy. And his team melted down on him for the second consecutive year.

I think one of the most underrated coaches in the league is George Karl...

The Bad Guy
05-06-2001, 04:40 PM
Injun,

I don't know why your questioning what I said in your post. I pretty much said what you did about Phil Jackson being a great coach.

Read down the board for my lengthy response to Brock if you haven't done so already.

I'm a diehard Laker fan that was defending the Zen Master and why it takes great coaching and great players to win in the NBA.

California Injun
05-06-2001, 04:42 PM
Scoop,

How can you define Riles as "middle of the road" when Mourning was out the enitre season and Tim Hardaway was gone for the Hornets series?

If Chuck Daly was so great what has he done since leaving the Pistons?

Popovich is "great" because he now has Duncan healthy. What happened last season with Tim hurt?

Riles has nothing to be ashamed of. In fact answer these questions;

Who were the coaches in New York and Miami BEFORE Pat took those teams over?

California Injun
05-06-2001, 04:46 PM
Da Wolf,

George Karl is the Marty Schottenheimer of the NBA.

He runs up incredible regular season records with above average talent and then implodes during the play-offs.

His Bucks nearly blew a 20 point lead today and may get pushed out by the Hornets before this series is over.

DaWolf
05-06-2001, 04:51 PM
Perhaps, but he's still a good coach, just as Marty was. The Bucks and Sonics were nothings before he started doing his thing. I just feel he is underrated.

My favorite coach in the league is Larry Brown. I think he is one of the most outstanding head coaches in basketball. His problem is that he never stays put anywhere...

California Injun
05-06-2001, 04:55 PM
I think Jeff Van Gundy is working miracles with New York.

The man has no real center and has rejuvenated Sprewell to play good team basketball.

The Knicks will play their a$$e$ off for 48 minutes. It may not look pretty, but I enjoy watching the effort.

The Bad Guy
05-06-2001, 05:56 PM
You want to know why Riley is middle of the road?

Because he can't win any big games with the Heat.

I could care less about Zo's comeback or not, but Riley had players on that roster to beat the Charlotte Hornets.

The same players that he couldn't get to play for him did a pretty good job sweeping him.


What was Riley's excuse last year? Or the year before that? He had a healthy Zo, PJ Brown, Mashburn and Hardaway.

Look long and hard at the Heat rosters over the last three years, and you tell me why they couldn't do anything more than knock out the Knicks.

It's because Riley isn't the coach he once was.

I see you have selective reading, so I will re-iterate what I said in my earlier post.

Great players, defense and great coaching win championships. You can't have one and not the others.

Popavich is a great coach. He consistantly has the Spurs in contention. Yes, he has Tim Duncan to work with, but he gets the most out of players like Danny Ferry, Avery Johnson, Terry Porter and Malik Rose.

When Duncan went down, the Spurs struggled, but all the coaching in the world wouldn't have won them the title.

If Shaq ever went down, Jackson could do all the coaching he wants, but he will never ever win a title.

I could care less who were the coaches before Riley went to the Knicks and the Heat.

Fact of the matter is, he has talent to do some damage in the East, and he hasn't gotten it done since he left the Lakers.

I find it pretty interesting you call Van Gundy a great coach. But, Doc Rivers, Isiah Thomas, Scott Skiles, Flip Saunders, and George Karl pretty much did the same thing that Van Gundy did this year.

None of those guys had a true center to utilize, but yet they accomplished just as much as Van Gundy. Karl even has his team playing the best in the East right now.

I would take Camby over Amachei, Tskalidis, Foster, Dudley, Nestrovich and Ervin Johnson anyday.

Again, to re-iterate my earlier post, a combination of great coaching, great players and defense will win you championships. Nothing else can do it.

Brock
05-06-2001, 06:31 PM
How did Jackson do when Jordan was swinging a stick in the minor leagues?

California Injun
05-06-2001, 06:38 PM
Filp Saunders: When he gets out of the first round then we'll talk about him.

Isiah Thomas: Nope! He was gift wrapped Jermaine O'Neal and still has Miller, Rose. and Krosheir (sp.). He barely beat out the Celtics for the #8 spot.

Doc Rivers: Rode the "coattails" of O'Grady. He did a helluva job in 1999. Jury is still out.

Riley's Achilles Heel has been Van Gundy in the play-offs. Those series have been wars and it does not mean that Riles is a bad coach.

Interesting how Popovich "struggles" with Duncan going down but Jackson would have no chance if Shaq is out.

We'll see where the Spurs coach is with Anderson on the shelf.

We'll also see how great Duncan is when Robinson finally hangs it up. He has a better all around game than Shaq if you ask me.

California Injun
05-06-2001, 06:41 PM
How did Jordan do before Phil Jackson arrived?

Brock
05-06-2001, 06:41 PM
I can't believe you guys are even arguing about what makes a great coach in the NBA. An NBA coach needs to know one thing: when to call time out. It's a player's league. Can you imagine an ordinary player in the NFL trying to strangle his coach and keeping a job anywhere in the league?

Brock
05-06-2001, 06:43 PM
Brock and Scoop:

Do you guys watch any sports at all?

Gee, I've never heard that one before. Real fresh, Injun.

California Injun
05-06-2001, 08:00 PM
About as "fresh" as;

"The only thing a coach need to do is know when to call timeout."

Who needs the hours of preparation, the practices, and personnel decisions when it just boils down to utilizing the 5-6 timeouts a game to give the stars their Gatorade?

Genius...

Brock
05-06-2001, 09:00 PM
Injun, do you even watch sports?

Brock
05-06-2001, 09:15 PM
Hours of preparation? Practices? Oh, yeah, you mean where the coach exhorts his troops to "put more mustard on those passes" or "Let's do some more work on the dump in to Shaq".


Takes a genius to know one.

California Injun
05-06-2001, 09:35 PM
Brock,

Sounds like you are head coaching material.

Ever coached Little League or ANY youth sports for that matter?

It's a piece of cake, right?

Phil Jackson just tripped on the sidewalk cracks in Chicago and Los Angeles, eh?

Such a lucky guy.......

Brock
05-06-2001, 09:44 PM
If you are equating teaching 10 year olds the fundamentals of the game with "coaching" 25 year old millionaires who have played the game all of their lives, you really ARE a genius. I suppose you think Phil Jackson taught Shaq how to box out.

California Injun
05-06-2001, 10:18 PM
Yep! Shaquille has eveything he needs to know about playing basketball and is incapable of acquiring anything from Jackson.

Jerry Buss was an idiot to throw 6 million a year for this lame coach when he had Del Harris guiding this team to 50+ win seasons.

In fact, the NBA is doing just fine with these young high school kids and/or sophmore college players skipping school to showcase their immense gifts upon the public.

Just like Brock knew everything in his chosen profession by the time he was 25.

But then you are "genius".

Chiefs Pantalones
05-06-2001, 10:59 PM
Lakers 108 Kings 105

CG

3 more to go

Brock
05-07-2001, 07:16 AM
Originally posted by California_Injun
Yep! Shaquille has eveything he needs to know about playing basketball and is incapable of acquiring anything from Jackson.

Yes. Unless there is a "zen" aspect to free throws that I don't know about.

BIG_DADDY
05-07-2001, 08:13 AM
Injun,

I disagree with your assessment of Jackson. They became a much better team when he arrived. He will have 10 world championships before he is done. Lakers in 6 over the Bucks. GO LAKERS !!!

BIG_DADDY
05-07-2001, 09:11 AM
You have got to love the way Fox shut Stojakovic down too. I was a little concerned about that guy going in but Fox has done a GREAT job. Look for the Kings to double cover Shaq in the next game. Lakers over the Kings in 5.

California Injun
05-07-2001, 01:41 PM
Big Daddy,

My post was extolling the effect Jacskon has had on the Lakers.

I was responding the Brock's "genius" statements that Phil just "uses timeouts" while leading this team.

The Kings are already double-teaming Shaq any time he gets the ball. If they want to be obvious about it then watch Kobe light them up for 40+ and/or Fisher/Grant and Fox torch 'em for 18-20.

BIG_DADDY
05-07-2001, 02:31 PM
Injun,

I agree. Pick your poison. The only team I worry about is the Spurs. They have always struggled with them. The key matchup will be Grant/Duncan.

Brock
05-07-2001, 02:41 PM
Injun - Are you always like this, or is it just that time of month?