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Taco John
08-10-2007, 01:01 PM
9/11 workers outraged by new Rudy claim

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BY CELESTE KATZ
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

Friday, August 10th 2007, 4:00 AM


Rudy Giuliani drew outrage and indignation from Sept. 11 first-responders yesterday by saying he spent as much time - or more - exposed to the site's dangers as workers who dug through the debris for the missing and the dead.

Speaking to reporters at a Cincinnati Reds ballgame he caught between fund-raisers, the GOP front-runner said he helped 9/11 families and defended himself against critics of how he managed the attack's aftermath.

"This is not a mayor or a governor or a President who's sitting in an ivory tower," Giuliani said. "I was at Ground Zero as often, if not more, than most of the workers. I was there working with them. I was exposed to exactly the same things they were exposed to. So in that sense, I'm one of them."

His statement rang false to Queens paramedic Marvin Bethea, who said he suffered a stroke, posttraumatic stress disorder and breathing problems after responding to the attacks.

"I personally find that very, very insulting," he said.

"Standing there doing a photo-op and telling the men, 'You're doing a good job,' I don't consider that to be working," said Bethea, 47.

Ironworker Jonathan Sferazo, 52, who said he spent a month at the site and is now disabled, runs a worker advocacy group with Bethea and called Giuliani's comments "severely" out of line.

"He's not one of us. He never has been and he never will be. He never served in a capacity where he was a responder," Sferazo said.

In the aftermath of the attacks, admirers dubbed Giuliani "America's Mayor," praising his leadership in the face of an unprecedented disaster. Detractors, including the International Association of Fire Fighters, which put out a scathing 13-minute video on his performance, suggested he profited politically and financially from the attacks.

"[Giuliani] is self-absorbed, arrogant and deluded," said IAFF spokesman Jeff Zack.

Responded Giuliani spokesman Michael McKeon, "Americans saw Rudy's performance for themselves during the aftermath of 9/11 and will dismiss this as the ridiculous and partisan rantings of a Democratic front group, because that's what they are."

Giuliani backer Lee Ielpi, a retired firefighter who lost his son, said no one's saying Giuliani dug through the rubble personally, but that doesn't mean he wasn't exposed to toxins.

"For me to say I saw him every day [would] not be fair," said Ielpi, who participated in the recovery effort for nine months. "But I can say I did see the mayor there a large number of times, [trying] to be as helpful and supportive as possible."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/08/10/2007-08-10_911_workers_outraged_by_new_rudy_claim.html

StcChief
08-10-2007, 01:07 PM
Dems outraged by any Republican......

Taco John
08-10-2007, 01:08 PM
I think Rudy's quote speaks for itself. He's getting ridiculous about this whole 9/11 thing.

the Talking Can
08-10-2007, 01:19 PM
has he lost his mind?

BigMeatballDave
08-10-2007, 02:45 PM
has he lost his mind?I'd say no, because he would have to have one first, in order to lose it...
:D

Baby Lee
08-10-2007, 02:55 PM
Rudy Giuliani drew outrage and indignation from Sept. 11 first-responders yesterday by saying he spent as much time - or more - exposed to the site's dangers as workers who dug through the debris for the missing and the dead.

"Standing there doing a photo-op and telling the men, 'You're doing a good job,' I don't consider that to be working," said Bethea, 47.

Giuliani backer Lee Ielpi, a retired firefighter who lost his son, said no one's saying Giuliani dug through the rubble personally, but that doesn't mean he wasn't exposed to toxins.
Which one gets the point made, and which one is ginning up false outrage at a point NOT made?

Ultra Peanut
08-10-2007, 02:56 PM
Dems outraged by any Republican......Marvin Bethea, who said he suffered a stroke, posttraumatic stress disorder and breathing problems after responding to the attacks = Partisan hack

Pitt Gorilla
08-10-2007, 02:58 PM
Dems outraged by any Republican......So, his statement is true then?

Ultra Peanut
08-10-2007, 02:58 PM
Which one gets the point made, and which one is ginning up false outrage at a point NOT made?Watching the horror that unfolded on 9/11 personally, on television, I feel that I suffered as much as, if not more than, the victims and their families. That was truly one of the darkest days of my life.

HolmeZz
08-10-2007, 03:06 PM
Which one gets the point made, and which one is ginning up false outrage at a point NOT made?

Prolly the part where Giuliani equated himself to the 9/11 workers. Just a guess.

BucEyedPea
08-10-2007, 03:13 PM
One of Rude-y's bumper stickers.

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/2064/rudeysbumperstickerjs7.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Support the Empire or Die!

noa
08-10-2007, 03:14 PM
Which one gets the point made, and which one is ginning up false outrage at a point NOT made?


Baby Lee, he said these words exactly:

"I was at Ground Zero as often, if not more, than most of the workers. I was there working with them. I was exposed to exactly the same things they were exposed to. So in that sense, I'm one of them."

That's why we have this response. He should have just said, "Yeah, I was there a lot. I was in the muck. It was awful." Instead, he claims he was working with them and was exposed to exactly the same stuff.

Taco John
08-10-2007, 03:15 PM
Which one gets the point made, and which one is ginning up false outrage at a point NOT made?



I would say that the person ginning something up is the one who is equating themselves with the workers on the ground in order to try and win election points. Whatever technicalities you want to explore, there comes a point when Giu911iani needs to stop using 9/11 as a crutch, and start talking about the issues.

Taco John
08-10-2007, 03:40 PM
Time for some backpeddaling:



Giuliani: I Misspoke About Ground Zero

Aug 10 04:07 PM US/Eastern
By LIBBY QUAID
Associated Press Writer


WASHINGTON (AP) - Republican presidential hopeful Rudy Giuliani said Friday that he misspoke when he said he spent as much time, if not more, at ground zero exposed to the same health risks as workers combing the site after the Sept. 11 attacks.
"I think I could have said it better," he told nationally syndicated radio host Mike Gallagher. "You know, what I was saying was, 'I'm there with you.'"

The former New York mayor struck a nerve with firefighters and police officers when he said Thursday in Cincinnati that he was at ground zero "as often, if not more, than most of the workers."

"I was there working with them. I was exposed to exactly the same things they were exposed to. So in that sense, I'm one of them," he told reporters at a Los Angeles Dodgers-Cincinnati Reds baseball game.

Fire and police officials responded angrily, saying Giuliani did not do the same work as those involved in the rescue, recovery and cleanup from the 2001 terrorist attacks, which left many workers sick and injured.

"I have a real problem with that statement," said Battalion Chief John McDonnell, head of the Uniformed Fire Officers Association in New York. "I think he's really grasping and trying to justify his previous attempts to portray himself as the hero of 9/11."

On Friday, Giuliani said he was trying to show his concern for the workers' health.

"What I was trying to say yesterday is that I empathize with them, because I feel like I have that same risk," he said.

"There were people there less than me, people on my staff, who already have had serious health consequences, and they weren't there as often as I was," Giuliani said, "but I wasn't trying to suggest a competition of any kind, which is the way it come across."

Giuliani's explanation further angered his ground zero critics, prompting several to issue a statement demanding an apology.

"He is such a liar, because the only time he was down there was for photo ops with celebrities, with politicians, with diplomats," said deputy fire chief Jimmy Riches, who spent months digging for his firefighter son.

"On 9/11 all he did was run. He got that soot on him, and I don't think he's taken a shower since."

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8QUCBU00&show_article=1

noa
08-10-2007, 03:45 PM
He got that soot on him, and I don't think he's taken a shower since.

Ouch.

Baby Lee
08-10-2007, 04:03 PM
Baby Lee, he said these words exactly:
I didn't take "I was there working with them" to mean "I was doing the same manual tasks they were." I took it as "I was on the scene, in the same environment, interested and involved."

But, as he's admitted, he worded it poorly. And thus let the indignance industry feast.

Cochise
08-10-2007, 04:11 PM
I didn't take "I was there working with them" to mean "I was doing the same manual tasks they were." I took it as "I was on the scene, in the same environment, interested and involved."

But, as he's admitted, he worded it poorly. And thus let the indignance industry feast.

I am sure he was doing plenty of work in the hours, days, weeks after on the whole situation. I'm sure he was probably there that afternoon coordinating things and doing what the guy in charge of any place would be doing during an emergency. I don't see the "I was doing the same thing as they were" in the piece either.

Jenson71
08-10-2007, 04:14 PM
"You know, what I was saying was, 'I'm there with you.'"

"...and sometimes, you weren't there with me."

Baby Lee
08-10-2007, 04:16 PM
It seems pretty clear at this point that Dems would rather have evangelical hard right repub candidate they think they can beat, than someone with moderate, closer to their own, views on the ticket who might win.
I'd be a little less opposed to that if; I wasn't tired of ageneration of good moderate Reps [Kemp, Weld, Powell] getting eviscerated by the game, rather than the merits of their stances, and Hillary wasn't leading the Dem race.

Baby Lee
08-10-2007, 04:18 PM
I would say that the person ginning something up is the one who is equating themselves with the workers on the ground in order to try and win election points. Whatever technicalities you want to explore, there comes a point when Giu911iani needs to stop using 9/11 as a crutch, and start talking about the issues.
He's not equating his activities with theirs, he's pointing out a bond, a shared experience, he has with them. And I'm sure there's a strong contingent that would agree, but they're not the type to be vocal about it. Hate's a stronger elixer than satisfaction.

Cochise
08-10-2007, 04:20 PM
It seems pretty clear at this point that Dems would rather have evangelical hard right repub candidate they think they can beat, than someone with moderate, closer to their own, views on the ticket who might win.
I'd be a little less opposed to that if; I wasn't tired of ageneration of good moderate Reps [Kemp, Weld, Powell] getting eviscerated by the game, rather than the merits of their stances, and Hillary wasn't leading the Dem race.

I think they are all trying to play 6 moves ahead. Hillary is the presumptive nominee, and she knows that Rudy is probably the only person she wouldn't beat, so they are going to work on the body here in the early rounds.

We've already seen the firefighter's union leaders trotted out and everything like that. It would appear that she's "prepared to demonize", once again.

Pitt Gorilla
08-10-2007, 04:25 PM
"I was at Ground Zero as often, if not more, than most of the workers." Then, he says it's not a "competition." What was the purpose of the quantifier?

Taco John
08-10-2007, 04:25 PM
He's not equating his activities with theirs, he's pointing out a bond, a shared experience, he has with them. And I'm sure there's a strong contingent that would agree, but they're not the type to be vocal about it. Hate's a stronger elixer than satisfaction.


I see it as no different than Edwards showing up for a picket line for a couple of campaign snap shots, and then saying "yeah, I was out picketing with them."

It's sleazy. The difference, however, is that Edwards is exploiting the locals, whereas Rudy is exploiting a national tragedy. Both are sleazy. But one is definitely sleazier than the other.

jAZ
08-10-2007, 04:27 PM
Rudy says suggests he's at greater risk than Ground Zero workers...

Mitt says his son's are fighting terrorism by tooling around Iowa with Bill Murry in a bad-ass Winnebago.

John Kerry has nothing on these elitist tools.

Baby Lee
08-10-2007, 04:28 PM
I see it as no different than Edwards showing up for a picket line for a couple of campaign snap shots, and then saying "yeah, I was out picketing with them."

It's sleazy. The difference, however, is that Edwards is exploiting the locals, whereas Rudy is exploiting a national tragedy. Both are sleazy. But one is definitely sleazier than the other.
And you're not looking beyond the surface to see how involved Edwards is in knowing why they're picketing and what he's doing to address the reasons for their picket, OR how much Giuliani interacts with the worker's, hears and takes to heart their stories, or what he's doing or going to do about their concerns.

jAZ
08-10-2007, 04:28 PM
He's not equating his activities with theirs, he's pointing out a bond, a shared experience, he has with them. And I'm sure there's a strong contingent that would agree, but they're not the type to be vocal about it. Hate's a stronger elixer than satisfaction.
Bullsh!t.

He's trying to suggest that he wasn't covering anything up because he wouldn't put himself at risk and he was there all the time.

Cochise
08-10-2007, 04:29 PM
"I was at Ground Zero as often, if not more, than most of the workers." Then, he says it's not a "competition." What was the purpose of the quantifier?

Seems like it was meant to establish a general idea of the amount of time being spoken of. If he just says "I was at the site too", that doesn't give you as much information.

Baby Lee
08-10-2007, 04:32 PM
Bullsh!t.

He's trying to suggest that he wasn't covering anything up because he wouldn't put himself at risk and he was there all the time.
Oh, so NOW it's about the environment on scene, and not the exact nature of the work he did.

noa
08-10-2007, 04:32 PM
It seems pretty clear at this point that Dems would rather have evangelical hard right repub candidate they think they can beat, than someone with moderate, closer to their own, views on the ticket who might win.
I'd be a little less opposed to that if; I wasn't tired of ageneration of good moderate Reps [Kemp, Weld, Powell] getting eviscerated by the game, rather than the merits of their stances, and Hillary wasn't leading the Dem race.

I don't like Rudy because, to me, the presidency is more about foreign policy than domestic. For domestic policy, I look more toward Congress. And as a foreign policy president, I would be frightened of Rudy. He's a neocon. His two top foreign policy advisers are John Bolton and Norman Podhoretz. He's already said he wants to train our troops in nation building so we can continue down this stupid path. I fear that if we elect him, we will go to war with Iran and that won't even be the worst of it.
So Rudy might be closer to me on domestic issues than the average Republican candidate, but that really doesn't do it for me, and I don't think the Dems will feel very threatened by another neocon candidate.

jAZ
08-10-2007, 04:36 PM
Oh, so NOW it's about the environment on scene, and not the exact nature of the work he did.
Did you read his quote?

"I was there working with them. I was exposed to exactly the same things they were exposed to."

Yeah, it's about his attempt to deflect criticism of the illness of the Gzero workers. By saying "I was there too!"

What a tool.

Taco John
08-10-2007, 04:37 PM
And you're not looking beyond the surface to see how involved Edwards is in...


You're right about that. Frankly I don't care to hear it from him. If someone wants to speak out about it, then that's great. But to listen to Edwards or Giuliani tell it, they are out there moving mountains for the little guy. Photo ops are not mountain moving events.

Cochise
08-10-2007, 04:38 PM
Now this is funny:


The campaign of Democratic presidential hopeful John Edwards accused former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani (R) of taking “every opportunity to exploit the memory of 9/11 for political gain.”

The statement from Edwards’s campaign manager David Bonior, a former congressman from Michigan, came in response to Giuliani’s statement that he “was at ground zero as often, if not more, than most of the workers.”...

The Giuliani campaign reacted with an equally strong statement.

“For John Edwards to lecture Rudy Giuliani about September 11th is laughable at best," said Katie Levinson, Communications Director for the Rudy Giuliani Presidential Committee. “This is, after all, the same guy who thinks the War on Terror is simply a ‘bumper sticker.’”


Any tiny little thing happens in this campaign, and there's John Edwards leaping in front of a camera waving his arms, trying to insert himself into it.

Baby Lee
08-10-2007, 04:43 PM
Did you read his quote?

"I was there working with them. I was exposed to exactly the same things they were exposed to."

Yeah, it's about his attempt to deflect criticism of the illness of the Gzero workers. By saying "I was there too!"

What a tool.
Read the thread, I'm the one who quoted Mr. Ielpi "no one's saying Giuliani dug through the rubble personally, but that doesn't mean he wasn't exposed to toxins" and cited that as the point being made, only to have everyone yelp 'but he's saying he did their work!!!'
And just because you're 'outraged' by the point, doesn't make it invalid.
He WAS there, he DID breathe the same air, even if there eventually proof connecting health problems to the environment there, that fact still stands to establish that he wasn't cavalier about the issue.

Fishpicker
08-10-2007, 04:44 PM
how much Giuliani interacts with the worker's, hears and takes to heart their stories, or what he's doing or going to do about their concerns.

aside from 9/11, does Rudy have a good track record dealing with municipal workers?

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noa
08-10-2007, 04:45 PM
Oh, so NOW it's about the environment on scene, and not the exact nature of the work he did.


I think it was always about that, too. Look at what he says in his retraction. He's talking about the health of his aides who were right there with him.

First, he's saying that he was there working on site, which is contradicted by others claiming he just showed up for photo ops with celebs and politicians.

Then he's also talking about the health risks involved being on site, rather than being in the "ivory tower" as he said earlier.

ClevelandBronco
08-10-2007, 04:51 PM
Good grief. It just might be past time for Rudy to stop talking.

How 'bout that Mike Huckabee?

noa
08-10-2007, 04:57 PM
Good grief. It just might be past time for Rudy to stop talking.

How 'bout that Mike Huckabee?

I like Huckabee. Wish he caught more traction.

Baby Lee
08-10-2007, 04:59 PM
I think it was always about that, too. Look at what he says in his retraction. He's talking about the health of his aides who were right there with him.

First, he's saying that he was there working on site, which is contradicted by others claiming he just showed up for photo ops with celebs and politicians.

Then he's also talking about the health risks involved being on site, rather than being in the "ivory tower" as he said earlier.
Again, for clarity, he said he was working WITH them. And while it's not perfectly worded, by his own admission, it doesn't mean he was trying to say he was doing what they were doing.

Baby Lee
08-10-2007, 05:01 PM
I like Huckabee. Wish he caught more traction.
I like the guy on a personal level. But that mix of evangelical right social stances AND evangelical left fiscal stances is pretty much the polar opposite of me.
'What would Jesus let me do in my own life' and 'what would Jesus' tax plan be' is not my scene.

Taco John
08-10-2007, 05:02 PM
Good grief. It just might be past time for Rudy to stop talking.

How 'bout that Mike Huckabee?



Sometimes you're a breath of fresh air... I can't understand why anybody would spend any time defending Rudy's moronic statements here.

Nightwish
08-10-2007, 05:03 PM
If there is anything in what he said that should be taken issue with, it would be the "as much, if not more, than most of the workers" part. I'd be interested in knowing just how much time he actually spent at Ground Zero, versus the average amount of time most workers spent. That was the only thing he said where it appeared he was trying to elevate himself above the workers.

Taco John
08-10-2007, 05:05 PM
I like the guy on a personal level. But that mix of evangelical right social stances AND evangelical left fiscal stances is pretty much the polar opposite of me.
'What would Jesus let me do in my own life' and 'what would Jesus' tax plan be' is not my scene.



In his clarification, he's saying that he's "one of them."

What would your response be if John Kerry were to visit Iraq on a regular basis, and say "I was in the war theatre as much as any soldier. I'm one of them."

noa
08-10-2007, 05:08 PM
Again, for clarity, he said he was working WITH them. And while it's not perfectly worded, by his own admission, it doesn't mean he was trying to say he was doing what they were doing.

Of course. I think most of us recognize that, but there's still a lot to criticize about what he's saying. It just shows that he really IS running on 9/11, and that's not just a mis-characterization by leftists. He really does want you to vote for him because he went to ground zero after the attacks instead of staying in an ivory tower. And I think there is something to be said for that, and Americans really appreciated it at the time so we shouldn't forget it, but to use it as a constant trope in your candidacy borders on exploitation. Especially when you hear his version of the story juxtaposed with the workers who were actually there and claim he only showed up to do photo ops.

Baby Lee
08-10-2007, 05:23 PM
Of course. I think most of us recognize that, but there's still a lot to criticize about what he's saying. It just shows that he really IS running on 9/11, and that's not just a mis-characterization by leftists. He really does want you to vote for him because he went to ground zero after the attacks instead of staying in an ivory tower. And I think there is something to be said for that, and Americans really appreciated it at the time so we shouldn't forget it, but to use it as a constant trope in your candidacy borders on exploitation. Especially when you hear his version of the story juxtaposed with the workers who were actually there and claim he only showed up to do photo ops.
Just so we're clear that that is not why I support him.
I support him because he attacks issues with the mindset of a prosecutor, and the results of his mindset with the return of prestige and liveability to Manhattan tells me he's good at it. That puts him good in my infrastructure, operational, fiscal book. And because he seems to have a healthy respect for social conservatism, but is moderate and rational in his implementation, again about where I am as a personal libertine who also respects his elders.

Taco John
08-10-2007, 05:25 PM
Ahhhh... Of course. Lawyers supporting lawyers...

Makes sense.

Baby Lee
08-10-2007, 05:29 PM
Ahhhh... Of course. Lawyers supporting lawyers...

Makes sense.
I'm in civil litigation, which means if it was about lawyers supporting lawyers, I'd be rooting for Edwards and the litigation bonanza to ensue.

But I'll gladly accept your snark as evidence of the overall reasonableness of my actual stance. :thumb:

jAZ
08-10-2007, 06:02 PM
Read the thread, I'm the one who quoted Mr. Ielpi "no one's saying Giuliani dug through the rubble personally, but that doesn't mean he wasn't exposed to toxins" and cited that as the point being made, only to have everyone yelp 'but he's saying he did their work!!!'
And just because you're 'outraged' by the point, doesn't make it invalid.
He WAS there, he DID breathe the same air, even if there eventually proof connecting health problems to the environment there, that fact still stands to establish that he wasn't cavalier about the issue.
Incompetence doesn't excuse bad behavior. Bush have had the best of intentions in all of the endless failures of this administration. That doesn't mean we aren't still in Iraq 6 years later because of his failed decisions.

patteeu
08-11-2007, 12:41 AM
Prolly the part where Giuliani equated himself to the 9/11 workers. Just a guess.

I would say that the person ginning something up is the one who is equating themselves with the workers on the ground in order to try and win election points. Whatever technicalities you want to explore, there comes a point when Giu911iani needs to stop using 9/11 as a crutch, and start talking about the issues.

When someone says "I was there working with them. I was exposed to exactly the same things they were exposed to. So in that sense, I'm one of them" he's not "equating" himself to those 9/11 workers. Notice the bolded phrase which implies he may well be unlike the 9/11 workers in senses other than the two mentioned. He was with them and he was exposed to the same general environment. Both true as far as I'm aware.

Of course, it wasn't the most politically savvy thing to say. On that, I'm sure we can agree. He should have had surrogates, particularly those who were first responders on the scene, making the case for him.

go bowe
08-12-2007, 01:54 PM
Just so we're clear that that is not why I support him.
I support him because he attacks issues with the mindset of a prosecutor, and the results of his mindset with the return of prestige and liveability to Manhattan tells me he's good at it. That puts him good in my infrastructure, operational, fiscal book. And because he seems to have a healthy respect for social conservatism, but is moderate and rational in his implementation, again about where I am as a personal libertine who also respects his elders.you know, rudy was my favorite at the beginning of this incredibly long campaign...

and i pretty much agree with what you are saying about rudy...

but the more i see and hear of rudy, the less impressed i am...

he's exploiting 9/11, to the extent that i don't even know if he has an opinion on the major issues of the day...

his only claim to fame is that he was the mayor of nyc on 9/11...

so, having left the rudy bandwagon, i turned to hussein (this was quite some time ago)...

and i'm not sure what any of his policies would be, but he can communicate in the english language...

and his approach is a breath of fresh air in the polical game...

there's plenty of time to be persuaded that some other candidate would be a better choice...

but for now, my guy is hussein... :) :) :)

patteeu
08-13-2007, 10:36 AM
you know, rudy was my favorite at the beginning of this incredibly long campaign...

and i pretty much agree with what you are saying about rudy...

but the more i see and hear of rudy, the less impressed i am...

he's exploiting 9/11, to the extent that i don't even know if he has an opinion on the major issues of the day...

his only claim to fame is that he was the mayor of nyc on 9/11...

so, having left the rudy bandwagon, i turned to hussein (this was quite some time ago)...

and i'm not sure what any of his policies would be, but he can communicate in the english language...

and his approach is a breath of fresh air in the polical game...

there's plenty of time to be persuaded that some other candidate would be a better choice...

but for now, my guy is hussein... :) :) :)

There's still time to realize that Hillary's your girl! :p

Baby Lee
08-13-2007, 02:17 PM
he's exploiting 9/11, to the extent that i don't even know if he has an opinion on the major issues of the day...

his only claim to fame is that he was the mayor of nyc on 9/11...
Chicken -v- Egg.
How much is Giuliani referencing 9/11 and how much is folks like on here bringing every 9/11 reference to you attention with CAPS and EXCLAMATION POINTS!!, or 'paraphrasing' every statement he makes anywhere as '9/11, 9/11, 9/11!!!'

HolmeZz
08-13-2007, 02:24 PM
Rudy believes it's being blown out of proportion 91.1% of the time.

recxjake
08-13-2007, 02:45 PM
Following Rudy on the campaign trail pretty closely, watching the debates, and youtube videos of him giving talks around the country..... I'm shocked on how little he talks about 9/11.

He talks more about how he cut crime, cut abortions, increased adoptions, cut taxes, turned a deficit into a surplus, took New York from one of the worst cities to be in, to one of the best.

After all of that, he talks about his plan for America, and how to make it better.

HolmeZz
08-13-2007, 02:57 PM
You're such a friggin' tool.

Baby Lee
08-13-2007, 02:58 PM
Rudy . . . campaign . . . about 9/11.
I KNEW IT!!!!!

Jenson71
08-13-2007, 03:09 PM
youtube videos of him giving talks around the country..... I'm shocked on how little he talks about 9/11..

I want to check this out, but most of the youtube clips are either Ron Paul educating Rudy or this:

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recxjake
08-13-2007, 03:55 PM
http://www.youtube.com/user/RudyGiulianiHQ

recxjake
08-13-2007, 03:56 PM
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