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View Full Version : The surge is working....


oldandslow
08-15-2007, 01:20 PM
summary of the story on cnn...

Suicide truck bombs hit northern Iraq town; death toll at 250

Attacks targeted mainly Kurdish religious minority Yazidi sect

Yazidis stoned teenage Yazidi girl to death for being seen with Sunni man

Sunnis then killed about a dozen Yazidi men in retaliation
_________________________________________

Yep, folks. We are making it all better.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/08/15/iraq.main/index.html

Cochise
08-15-2007, 01:21 PM
The surge is in Bahgdad and Al Anbar.

oldandslow
08-15-2007, 01:30 PM
The surge is in Bahgdad and Al Anbar.

So...they go where we ain't...

a bomb is a bomb no matter where it is set off.

You for putting over another couple of hundred thousand troops over there so every nook and cranny will be "surged?" For how long? At what cost?

BucEyedPea
08-15-2007, 01:49 PM
At what cost?
At the cost of losing our country, perhaps?

David Walker,a non-partisan figure in charge of the Government Accountability Office,the investigative arm of the US Congress and comptroller Gen of the US says the war may bring the US down. He's making comparisons to the end of the Roman Empire due to unsustainable polices including :"dramatic” tax rises, slashed government services, the large-scale dumping by foreign governments of holdings of US deb, lack of political civility at home, an over-confident and over-extended military in foreign lands and fiscal irresponsibility by the central government. Bush may keep pumping money into holding this off but a day or reckoning comes sooner or later unless we wise up.

Personally, I don't care if the empire falls, but I wouldn't want to lose our Republic with that scenario.

Hydrae
08-15-2007, 01:50 PM
Hmm, who can we get to play Brutus?

Chief Faithful
08-15-2007, 02:00 PM
You do realize these type of bombings was reduced by half in July and the trend is on pace in August? The former strategy may have failed, but the surge result so far are encouraging.

Chief Henry
08-15-2007, 02:05 PM
Old and Slow could change his name to doom and gloom.

BucEyedPea
08-15-2007, 02:10 PM
I thought we ended up in Iraq based on doom and gloom.
And we need to go after Iran because if we don't it will be doom and gloom.
It's called projection.

BucEyedPea
08-15-2007, 02:14 PM
You do realize these type of bombings was reduced by half in July and the trend is on pace in August? The former strategy may have failed, but the surge result so far are encouraging.
Number of reduced but killing more each time. They're just getting more efficient.

oldandslow
08-15-2007, 02:20 PM
Old and Slow could change his name to doom and gloom.

Not at all...

I just don't believe in unjustied war. Ever.

Iraq did not attack us, no matter how folks want to spin it. We entered into empire securing, nation-building full-bore and that, to me, is wrong-headed policy.

StcChief
08-15-2007, 02:24 PM
That could happen anywhere if USA is there or not....

Unjust war. Put your head back in the sand and wait those whackos to attack here again.

BucEyedPea
08-15-2007, 02:28 PM
That could happen anywhere if USA is there or not....

Unjust war. Put your head back in the sand and wait those whackos to attack here again.
The ability to see differences and similarities is part of sanity, reason and logic.
Seeing all as the same thing is identification and results in reacting instead of thinking.

Which "whackos" and "where?"

They are not the same group. They, generality and all the same, did not attack us. Islam itself is a mosaic not a monolith too.

oldandslow
08-15-2007, 02:30 PM
That could happen anywhere if USA is there or not....

Unjust war. Put your head back in the sand and wait those whackos to attack here again.

Five US soldiers dying in Iraq today would not happen tho.

Those "whacko's" will attempt to attack again whether we are in Iraq or not.

Let's take the billions we have spent over there and secure our nation, tighten our borders, build a better CIA/FBI and PROTECT OURSELVES.

This attempt at nation-building is not going to fix a damn thing.

StcChief
08-15-2007, 02:34 PM
The ability to see differences and similarities is part of sanity, reason and logic.
Seeing all as the same thing is identification and results in reacting instead of thinking.

Which "whackos" and "where?"

They are not the same group. They, generality and all the same, did not attack us. Islam itself is a mosaic not a monolith too.

Not Islam. the folks standing behind it using it as an excuse... yelling jehad. death to America.

Same ones that are brainwashed from their birth to hate.

Those are the recruits that will attack put up to it by likes of Saddam and his $25K... follow the money back the next bunch will be Iranian supported etc.

Baby Lee
08-15-2007, 03:05 PM
At the cost of losing our country, perhaps?

David Walker,a non-partisan figure in charge of the Government Accountability Office,the investigative arm of the US Congress and comptroller Gen of the US says the war may bring the US down. He's making comparisons to the end of the Roman Empire due to unsustainable polices including :"dramatic” tax rises, slashed government services, the large-scale dumping by foreign governments of holdings of US deb, lack of political civility at home, an over-confident and over-extended military in foreign lands and fiscal irresponsibility by the central government. Bush may keep pumping money into holding this off but a day or reckoning comes sooner or later unless we wise up.

Personally, I don't care if the empire falls, but I wouldn't want to lose our Republic with that scenario.
Any projections on canine/feline cohabitation?

BucEyedPea
08-15-2007, 03:15 PM
Not Islam. the folks standing behind it using it as an excuse... yelling jehad. death to America.
It's "jihad." They wouldn't be doing it if we didn't leave troops on their Holy lands or anywhere on their lands. We never did that under RR and when we did we got out. Why the "crusade" against them though?

Same ones that are brainwashed from their birth to hate.
Those are the ones that do their dirty work in Israel.
OBL and his groups were adults, were financed by the US and several other countries. This is what I mean about equating them all the same. If Israel wants to live in hostile territory then she'll have to deal with it on her own as she has been. The US should not put our troops in the middle of that.


Those are the recruits that will attack put up to it by likes of Saddam and his $25K... follow the money back the next bunch will be Iranian supported etc.
Baloney! SH financed the ones that did their dirty work in Israel not in America. And Iraq govt killed Abu Nidel despite claims it was a suicide. You're mixing up two conflicts again and making them all one and the same. They are not.

Baby Lee
08-15-2007, 03:24 PM
It's "jihad." They wouldn't be doing it if we didn't leave troops on their Holy lands or anywhere on their lands. We never did that under RR and when we did we got out.
I note that you harp on the chronological correlation between troop placement and the rise of jihad.
Thing is, there's been a parallel chronological correlation between the increasingly unavoidable modern world and the rise of jihad.

Cochise
08-15-2007, 03:28 PM
At the cost of losing our country, perhaps?

David Walker,a non-partisan figure in charge of the Government Accountability Office,the investigative arm of the US Congress and comptroller Gen of the US...

Could you explain what a 'non-partisan figure' is?

BucEyedPea
08-15-2007, 03:37 PM
Could you explain what a 'non-partisan figure' is?
It's in the dictionary. Look up under partisan. Then look up the prefix "non." ;)

BucEyedPea
08-15-2007, 03:44 PM
I note that you harp on the chronological correlation between troop placement and the rise of jihad.
Thing is, there's been a parallel chronological correlation between the increasingly unavoidable modern world and the rise of jihad.
Link?

I love the way you use the word "harp" when the right "harps" their points too.
Saudi Arabia is pretty modern technology-wise despite their cultural values.
Seems you insist that this "modern world" means they must accept it because we have...and many Christians haven't bought into all of this on the level of values either. In fact they have much in common here with their Islamic counterparts. You're gonna have to define this more. Because if you mean globalism and all the international institutions being used to overide local culture and customs, then there's a lot of complaint from Americans on this too. It won't work because all politics is really local even if world hegemons want to ignore it. People have to accept and move into such things at the grassroots. Imposing it from the leadership down creates the clash and conflict as well as insisting they be like us or modern. If they don't want to participate, then it should be their right to accept or reject. Eventually, it this shows beneficial to them they will partake. It's the only sane way instead of conquest.

Cochise
08-15-2007, 03:47 PM
It's in the dictionary. Look up under partisan. Then look up the prefix "non." ;)

A figure, an individual.

Wilson
08-15-2007, 03:51 PM
<iframe src="http://costofwar.com/embed.html" width="600"></iframe>

Underfunded Schools (http://www.cssny.org/pubs/urbanagenda/2004_10_14.html)

Hurricane Katrina Funding (A year of recovery, waiting)

Understanding America's Poor (http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/bg1713.cfm)

Impeach the Scumbag in the White House (http://www.impeachbush.org/site/PageServer)

StcChief
08-15-2007, 04:01 PM
It's "jihad." They wouldn't be doing it if we didn't leave troops on their Holy lands or anywhere on their lands. We never did that under RR and when we did we got out. Why the "crusade" against them though?


Those are the ones that do their dirty work in Israel.
OBL and his groups were adults, were financed by the US and several other countries. This is what I mean about equating them all the same. If Israel wants to live in hostile territory then she'll have to deal with it on her own as she has been. The US should not put our troops in the middle of that.


Baloney! SH financed the ones that did their dirty work in Israel not in America. And Iraq govt killed Abu Nidel despite claims it was a suicide. You're mixing up two conflicts again and making them all one and the same. They are not.

So the ones that were sent here the 9/11 pilots Al Queda funded.

SH worked those fools to bomb in Israel, but wasn't above doing it anywhere, that met his needs.

Israel was established in 1948 there by the U.N. after WWII....

Arabs have been after it every since.
U.N. won't defend any action, they can't even put food in Darfar....

Who is to stand by Israel. Admitting them to NATO and letting Europe help is a start.

I guess we'll just be our little isolationist protectist country. Ditch our allies like the rest of our NATO "friends". Taking a stand for what's right/wrong doesn't seem to be in their best interest if they can't make money from it.

Very few trade only let's be friends in the world countries. working in a non-level playing field.

Look at China, flood our market with shoddy products to load Walmart shelves.

the Talking Can
08-15-2007, 04:01 PM
CNN now reporting 500 dead from the bombing....

oldandslow
08-15-2007, 04:18 PM
<iframe src="http://costofwar.com/embed.html" width="600"></iframe>

Underfunded Schools (http://www.cssny.org/pubs/urbanagenda/2004_10_14.html)

Hurricane Katrina Funding (A year of recovery, waiting)

Understanding America's Poor (http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/bg1713.cfm)

Impeach the Scumbag in the White House (http://www.impeachbush.org/site/PageServer)

Damn, that little counter puts it all into perspective...

1600 dollars per second.

I think BEP is right. We are going to spend ourselves into oblivion.

BucEyedPea
08-15-2007, 04:52 PM
So the ones that were sent here the 9/11 pilots Al Queda funded.
Yeah they took credit.

SH worked those fools to bomb in Israel, but wasn't above doing it anywhere, that met his needs.
Baloney. You're meeting your needs here saying that.
A civilized and sane nation with wise leaders so not start aggressive wars on the basis of some prejudicial speculation.

Israel was established in 1948 there by the U.N. after WWII....
So you support the UN afterall.
My point was the Balfour Declaration which came long before this point without which it may have never became an issue for the UN.
Now, if the UN decides that the Azlatlan movement should get NV, NM, CA, CO etc back at some point then it would be valid because the UN did it?

Arabs have been after it every since.
Egypt, Jordan and SA aren't.
But why wouldn't they fight over it...after the Brits promised them that land back if they'd help the Brits take down the Ottoman's who ruled them at that time? Why wouldn't they feel it was theirs after storming the beaches of Palestine as allies of the Brits. Don't you think the Brits were complicit in promising that land to two conflicting groups the same land? Are you okay with that? That's what I call blowback.

U.N. won't defend any action, they can't even put food in Darfar....
It shouldn't imo.Darfur is a civil war. No doubt a tragedy but something they have to fight out until a clear winner.

Who is to stand by Israel. Admitting them to NATO and letting Europe help is a start.
We do. But I don't think we should go as far as fighting their wars for them which will just bring terror here.

I guess we'll just be our little isolationist protectist country. Ditch our allies like the rest of our NATO "friends". Taking a stand for what's right/wrong doesn't seem to be in their best interest if they can't make money from it.
We've never been an isolationist country though. And no one recommends it despite pat's spin and lack of history on this. But once a war ends our any alliances for fighting it should end. If you wanna get involved in so many conflicts expect to be a target. Foolish to think otherwise. Other than that we do what worked well before we use our Ambassadors when we have a problem.

Very few trade only let's be friends in the world countries. working in a non-level playing field.
No there's been trade for a long time. During the Age of Discovery and even ancient times. The ME was stategic even then because of the routes to the East for spices, silk etc. These things created wealth. As a result it has suffered from outside aims and conquest on it for millenium. That'll warp the psyche of any people.

Look at China, flood our market with shoddy products to load Walmart shelves.
That's govt policy though. But really StChief, you can't blame everyone else and never look at our own actions. It's just not fair and it po's the world. That's hardly a recipe for peace.

StcChief
08-15-2007, 05:02 PM
Yeah they took credit.


Baloney. You're meeting your needs here saying that.
A civilized and sane nation with wise leaders so not start aggressive wars on the basis of some prejudicial speculation.


So you support the UN afterall.
My point was the Balfour Declaration which came long before this point without which it may have never became an issue for the UN.
Now, if the UN decides that the Azlatlan movement should get NV, NM, CA, CO etc back at some point then it would be valid because the UN did it?


Egypt, Jordan and SA aren't.
But why wouldn't they fight over it...after the Brits promised them that land back if they'd help the Brits take down the Ottoman's who ruled them at that time? Why wouldn't they feel it was theirs after storming the beaches of Palestine as allies of the Brits. Don't you think the Brits were complicit in promising that land to two conflicting groups the same land? Are you okay with that? That's what I call blowback.


It shouldn't imo.Darfur is a civil war. No doubt a tragedy but something they have to fight out until a clear winner.


We do. But I don't think we should go as far as fighting their wars for them which will just bring terror here.


We've never been an isolationist country though. And no one recommends it despite pat's spin and lack of history on this. But once a war ends our any alliances for fighting it should end. If you wanna get involved in so many conflicts expect to be a target. Foolish to think otherwise. Other than that we do what worked well before we use our Ambassadors when we have a problem.


No there's been trade for a long time. During the Age of Discovery and even ancient times. The ME was stategic even then because of the routes to the East for spices, silk etc. These things created wealth. As a result it has suffered from outside aims and conquest on it for millenium. That'll warp the psyche of any people.


That's govt policy though. But really StChief, you can't blame everyone else and never look at our own actions. It's just not fair and it po's the world. That's hardly a recipe for peace.

Our action? Our action, were we attacked, Iran 1978, Beirut, East Africa, WTC 93,
If you think peace will exist with these Arab states/ and the stateless terrorists. Just lulling the US back to sleep. Now car bombs etc to push the media/Libs to quit and leave. Prove once again America is spineless and will not back our friends. Leaving this to the dems to worm out spinelessly.

Cochise
08-15-2007, 05:05 PM
Underfunded Schools (http://www.cssny.org/pubs/urbanagenda/2004_10_14.html)

Hurricane Katrina Funding (A year of recovery, waiting)

Understanding America's Poor (http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/bg1713.cfm)

Impeach the Scumbag in the White House (http://www.impeachbush.org/site/PageServer)

So, about $400 billion spent on Iraq so far... spread over 4 years, that's $100 billion a year out of the $2.47 trillion total federal budget (2005), or 5% of the annual federal budget, if my calculations are correct.

The last I heard, about 60% of that federal budget was being spent on 'entitlement' programs. Don't suppose there would be a few bucks going to waste there that could be used to fix all these worrisome problems or throw more money at the school problems, would there be?

I like the 'Poor' link there to the Heritage foundation, though. It confirms again who those classified as 'in poverty' largely are. Thanks for posting it.

Taco John
08-15-2007, 05:06 PM
I note that you harp on the chronological correlation between troop placement and the rise of jihad.
Thing is, there's been a parallel chronological correlation between the increasingly unavoidable modern world and the rise of jihad.



Are you trying to say they didn't have Jihad before television?

Baby Lee
08-15-2007, 05:17 PM
Seems you insist that this "modern world" means they must accept it because we have...and many Christians haven't bought into all of this on the level of values either. In fact they have much in common here with their Islamic counterparts.
Yeah, all that evangelical suicide bombing and Southern Baptist hijacking of planes and plowing them into structures.


If they don't want to participate, then it should be their right to accept or reject. Eventually, it this shows beneficial to them they will partake. It's the only sane way instead of conquest.
You just don't get it. They reject it, and they reject it EVERYWHERE.
Thus, we don't get the right to accept or reject. We reject as well, or fall before jihad.

Cochise
08-15-2007, 05:20 PM
You just don't get it. They reject it, and they reject it EVERYWHERE.
Thus, we don't get the right to accept or reject. We reject as well, or fall before jihad.

They don't just reject it. They reject anyone's right to accept it.

Baby Lee
08-15-2007, 05:21 PM
Are you trying to say they didn't have Jihad before television?
rise ≠ genesis.

We have created the ability to pack a great deal the western world into an i-phone. That's [not the i-phone specifically, the ability to transport culture immediately and over great distances] a novel threat to their traditions.

Chief Henry
08-15-2007, 05:34 PM
[QUOTE

Underfunded Schools (http://www.cssny.org/pubs/urbanagenda/2004_10_14.html)

Hurricane Katrina Funding (A year of recovery, waiting)

Understanding America's Poor (http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/bg1713.cfm)

Impeach the Scumbag in the White House (http://www.impeachbush.org/site/PageServer)[/QUOTE]---





Are we winning the War on Terror ? If we don't then none of
the above means SQWAT.

StcChief
08-15-2007, 05:42 PM
[QUOTE

Underfunded Schools (http://www.cssny.org/pubs/urbanagenda/2004_10_14.html)

Hurricane Katrina Funding (A year of recovery, waiting)

Understanding America's Poor (http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/bg1713.cfm)

Impeach the Scumbag in the White House (http://www.impeachbush.org/site/PageServer)---





Are we winning the War on Terror ? If we don't then none of
the above means SQWAT.[/QUOTE] :clap:

they will be whining forever. Change and control your local gov't. stop getting from Federal teet.

Baby Lee
08-16-2007, 11:55 AM
<iframe src="http://costofwar.com/embed.html" width="600"></iframe>

Underfunded Schools (http://www.cssny.org/pubs/urbanagenda/2004_10_14.html)

Hurricane Katrina Funding (A year of recovery, waiting)

Understanding America's Poor (http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/bg1713.cfm)

Impeach the Scumbag in the White House (http://www.impeachbush.org/site/PageServer)
Whitey's on the Moon. Got it.

jettio
08-16-2007, 12:52 PM
B*sh-Rumsfeld-Cheney's complete and total f*ckin' incompetence is a non-partisan issue.

Our country has a problem when partisanship prevents too many of our citizens from seeing that B*sh-Rumsfeld-Cheney's complete and total f*ckin' incompetence is a non-partisan issue.

Those guys thought this whole enterprise would be fun and games and sh*ts and giggles and that Iraq-atopia would be built in 2004.

It is 2007, and partisanship poisoned minds now think that taking half-steps towards what should have been accomplished and over and done with four years ago means that complete and total f*ckin' incompetents might achieve some kind of redemption.

The 2006 Colts won the superbowl. Does that mean that the 1991 Colts with 1-15 W/L record, did a fabulous job?

Ugly Duck
08-16-2007, 01:06 PM
The surge is in Bahgdad and Al Anbar.

Ever played Whack-a-Mole?

Dave Lane
08-16-2007, 02:40 PM
Number of reduced but killing more each time. They're just getting more efficient.


Ummm its the time of year. You do realize its 130 degrees over there almost every day. EVERY year violence drops off in July / August. It is up 30% year to year as of about 1 week ago.

Dave

Logical
08-16-2007, 03:47 PM
So...they go where we ain't...

a bomb is a bomb no matter where it is set off.

You for putting over another couple of hundred thousand troops over there so every nook and cranny will be "surged?" For how long? At what cost?

No Bush supporter will admit to the need for a complete surge because there are not sufficient troops to accomplish that goal. To have sufficient troops would require a draft and that folks is not going to happen. Even Bush does not want to dip to a 10% or lower popularity rating.