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Chief Henry
08-16-2007, 08:41 AM
Seattle times Executive Editor David Boardman
pulls back the curtain on Journalists. He reveals
what we've known for along time.

www.newsbusters.org

CHIEF4EVER
08-16-2007, 08:47 AM
No way. Say it isn't so.........

Jenson71
08-16-2007, 08:56 AM
Next we'll find out teachers/professors are generally liberal.

jAZ
08-16-2007, 10:05 AM
Note that this was posted by the Seattle Times itself 2 days before the conservatives tried to spin it as an example of liberal bias.

http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/davidpostman/index.html#018069

A newsroom reprimand at The Times

Posted by David Postman at 03:26 PM

Seattle Times Executive Editor Dave Boardman wrote today in one of his morning notes to staff that there had been "an awkward moment at yesterday's news meeting." That's the meeting where editors and other staff from throughout the newsroom talk about the stories planned for the next day's paper. Boardman wrote in "Dave's Raves (and the occasional rant)"

When word came in of Karl Rove's resignation, several people in the meeting started cheering. That sort of expression is simply not appropriate for a newsroom.
It sounds like a conservative's parody of how a news meeting would be run. I wasn't there, but I've talked to several people who were. It was only a couple of people who cheered and they, thankfully, are not among the people who get a say in news play. But obviously news staff shouldn't be cheering or jeering the day's news, particularly as Boardman points out, "when we have an outside guest in the room."

Jokes get made in newsrooms, of course even what you would call gallows humor. And Boardman wrote that he was "all for equal-opportunity joking at both parties' expense." But he was clearly ticked off by yesterday's display.

As we head into a major political year, now's a good time to remember: Please keep your personal politics to yourself.

patteeu
08-16-2007, 10:10 AM
LMAO @ "spin it as an example of liberal bias"

As if it's not a self-evident example of liberal bias in the newsroom? haha

chagrin
08-16-2007, 10:13 AM
Note that this was posted by the Seattle Times itself 2 days before the conservatives tried to spin it as an example of liberal bias.

http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/davidpostman/index.html#018069

A newsroom reprimand at The Times

Posted by David Postman at 03:26 PM

Seattle Times Executive Editor Dave Boardman wrote today in one of his morning notes to staff that there had been "an awkward moment at yesterday's news meeting." That's the meeting where editors and other staff from throughout the newsroom talk about the stories planned for the next day's paper. Boardman wrote in "Dave's Raves (and the occasional rant)"

When word came in of Karl Rove's resignation, several people in the meeting started cheering. That sort of expression is simply not appropriate for a newsroom.
It sounds like a conservative's parody of how a news meeting would be run. I wasn't there, but I've talked to several people who were. It was only a couple of people who cheered and they, thankfully, are not among the people who get a say in news play. But obviously news staff shouldn't be cheering or jeering the day's news, particularly as Boardman points out, "when we have an outside guest in the room."

Jokes get made in newsrooms, of course even what you would call gallows humor. And Boardman wrote that he was "all for equal-opportunity joking at both parties' expense." But he was clearly ticked off by yesterday's display.

As we head into a major political year, now's a good time to remember: Please keep your personal politics to yourself.

Not a spin dude, the quote from the same guy, the Executive Editor says the following, per the thread title post link:

Boardman acknowledged:


If we wore our politics on our sleeves in here, I have no doubt that in this and in most other mainstream newsrooms in America, the majority of those sleeves would be of the same color: blue. Survey after survey over the years have demonstrated that most of the people who go into this business tend to vote Democratic, at least in national elections. That is not particularly surprising, given how people make career decisions and that social service and activism is a primary driver for many journalists.

jAZ
08-16-2007, 10:18 AM
As if it's not a self-evident example of liberal bias in the newsroom?
Actually, it's an example of how every effort is made to put bias aside in a news room.

This guy is doing exactly the right thing as far as I can tell. And in a liberal city like Seattle no less. This is an act of great journalism management that's being distorted into yet another attack on the "liberal media".

In fact this proves the point I've been making forever, which is that despite a likely abundance of progressive minded reporters, the journailsm as a trade works to put facts before ideology.

This Editor of the paper in a hugely liberal city proves how effective journalism is.

Here's his full follow up letter. The one that is selectively quoted to spin this into yet another "liberal media" attack.

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003625825

My Raves admonition on politically based cheering in the newsroom has ignited the predictable flame-throwing in the blogosphere, particularly from the portside. Allow me to riff a bit further on that, and on my reasoning....

The postings nearly everywhere speak not to the fundamental issues around newsroom decorum, but instead spring from one's place on the spectrum of Bush/Rove "Bad" or Bush/Rove "Good."

I ask you all to leave your personal politics at the front door for one simple reason: A good newsroom is a sacred and magical place in which we can and should test every assumption, challenge each other's thinking, ask the fundamental questions those in power hope we will overlook.

If we wore our politics on our sleeves in here, I have no doubt that in this and in most other mainstream newsrooms in America, the majority of those sleeves would be of the same color: blue. Survey after survey over the years have demonstrated that most of the people who go into this business tend to vote Democratic, at least in national elections. That is not particularly surprising, given how people make career decisions and that social service and activism is a primary driver for many journalists.

But if we allowed our news meetings to evolve into a liberal latte klatch, I have no doubt that a pathological case of group-think would soon set in. One of the advances of which Im most proud over the years is our willingness to question and challenge each other as we work to give our readers the most valuable, meaningful journalism we can.

The result: A newspaper that is known nationally for aggressive watchdog and investigative reporting, without fear or favor. From a Democratic United States senator (Brock Adams) to our region's biggest employer (Boeing) to a large advertiser (Nordstrom) to our school districts and courts and police, we have confronted them all with tough questions to which they had no good answers. The result has been a better community, laws changed, lives saved.

Its not about "balance," which is a false construct. It isn't even about "objectivity," which is a laudable but probably unattainable goal. It is about independent thinking and sound, facts-based journalism -- the difference between what we do and the myopic screed that is passed off as "advocacy" journalism these days.

Readers notice. In contrast to much of our industry, we are achieving great readership results both in print and online. Our page views to Seattletimes.com are up almost 40 percent year over year, and at this point we are actually selling more newspapers on a typical day than we did last year.

Thanks for listening, and for all of your amazing effort that keeps this the magical place it is.

StcChief
08-16-2007, 10:23 AM
Actually, it's an example of how every effort (better word is ATTEMPT) is made to put bias aside in a news room.

Here's his full follow up letter. This guy is doing exactly the right thing as far as I can tell. And in a liberal city like Seattle no less. This is an act of great journalism management that's being distorted into yet another attack on the "liberal media".


Doesn't mean it's actually happening. Business is still about selling papers.

chagrin
08-16-2007, 10:25 AM
I disagree, you can say "Journalism" as a whole but case by case, probably in all cities in America with local news, the media is terribly slanted to the left - shit stirring idealists who create news by pushing their agenda.

If you count convincing the weak and uneducated, immigrants from Cuba, Mexico and other countries that bush is da debil as something good; that just shows how wacked your point of view is.

How many places have you lived Jaz, serious question - not fuggin with you.

I ask that because I have lived in 9 cities in 4 states. I also should include all the states I have been to for business as well, last count 38 - I have yet to find a news cast with a half assed attempt at simply reporting the story and moving on. They all tug the hearts of immigrants, they show poor black people on tv, answering questions about war and cops - it's ridiculous.

They never interview educated, informed Americans about anything, unless you count conspiracy lunatics who search for anything they can find to back up their freaky beliefs on the net.

chagrin
08-16-2007, 10:25 AM
Doesn't mean it's actually happening. Business is still about selling papers.


Thanks, in short I agree with this.

patteeu
08-16-2007, 10:53 AM
Actually, it's an example of how every effort is made to put bias aside in a news room.

:spock: Hooting and hollering in delight at the news that Karl Rove is retiring isn't my idea of putting bias aside.

This guy is doing exactly the right thing as far as I can tell. And in a liberal city like Seattle no less. This is an act of great journalism management that's being distorted into yet another attack on the "liberal media".

No one is saying that there are no decent journalists who are able to repress their personal views sufficiently. It's the others that are the problem.

In fact this proves the point I've been making forever, which is that despite a likely abundance of progressive minded reporters, the journailsm as a trade works to put facts before ideology.

This Editor of the paper in a hugely liberal city proves how effective journalism is.


This doesn't prove any such point. In addition to the abundance of progressive minded reporters we get an abundance of progressive minded reports. Coincidence? I think not.

Taco John
08-16-2007, 12:52 PM
No one is saying that there are no decent journalists who are able to repress their personal views sufficiently. It's the others that are the problem.




Problem for who? There are a bajillion media sources in the world, and people have access to more news than they could possibly consume from an unending array of political viewpoints. I can't understand why this drumbeat of whining persists.

patteeu
08-16-2007, 01:05 PM
Problem for who? There are a bajillion media sources in the world, and people have access to more news than they could possibly consume from an unending array of political viewpoints. I can't understand why this drumbeat of whining persists.

I agree that it isn't as much of a problem as it was a few years ago due to the rise of conservative talk radio and the internet, but the issue of liberal journalists masquerading as objective chroniclers remains in some of the most influential news outlets in our society.

Chief Henry
08-16-2007, 01:09 PM
Jiz, er I mean Diz is at it again. Diz you can't even
aknowledge media bias when they aknowledge this themself's. Absolutely unbeleavable. I would think your hair would be getting very sandy.

Cochise
08-16-2007, 01:10 PM
I agree that it isn't as much of a problem as it was a few years ago due to the rise of conservative talk radio and the internet, but the issue of liberal journalists masquerading as objective chroniclers remains in some of the most influential news outlets in our society.

It's going to be a problem once they start trying to legislatively storm the gates of conservative media outlets and/or FAIAP shutting them down.

Taco John
08-16-2007, 02:46 PM
It's going to be a problem once they start trying to legislatively storm the gates of conservative media outlets and/or FAIAP shutting them down.


Like that's going to happen...

jAZ
08-16-2007, 02:58 PM
Doesn't mean it's actually happening. Business is still about selling papers.
And to see that the Editor of the largest newspaper in one of the most liberal communities in the country proactively enforce a culture where he demands that his staff "leave your personal politics at the front door" because "A good newsroom is a sacred and magical place in which we can and should test every assumption, challenge each other's thinking, ask the fundamental questions those in power hope we will overlook."

Were the goal to support the existence of powerful and reasonably objective news operations... RWers should be championing this guy for building a solid journalistic institution.

But instead, since the goal is to build a pro-Republican, Conservatively biased media, the story becomes yet another attempt to take the widely agreed upon notion that journalists might generally have personal views that are socially liberal (ie, might lean "blue")... and distort that into the claim that the output of the news media is built upon a liberal agenda.

This is a perfect example of how... by design... the standards and practices of the institution of journalism trumps the individual politics of the people that work in the industry.

Baby Lee
08-16-2007, 03:04 PM
And to see that the Editor of the largest newspaper in one of the most liberal communities in the country proactively enforce a culture where he demands that his staff "leave your personal politics at the front door" because "A good newsroom is a sacred and magical place in which we can and should test every assumption, challenge each other's thinking, ask the fundamental questions those in power hope we will overlook."

Were the goal to support the existence of powerful and reasonably objective news operations... RWers should be championing this guy for building a solid journalistic institution.

But instead, since the goal is to build a pro-Republican, Conservatively biased media, the story becomes yet another attempt to take the widely agreed upon notion that journalists might generally have personal views that are socially liberal (ie, might lean "blue")... and distort that into the claim that the output of the news media is built upon a liberal agenda.

This is a perfect example of how... by design... the standards and practices of the institution of journalism trumps the individual politics of the people that work in the industry.
OK, explain why those who express concerns are any less rational in said concerns than those who say 'you think a president who calls Ken Lay 'Kenny boy' can be fair on the Enron scandal?'

You're basically saying, yeah they are running the new cycle and yeah they're all liberal, but trust them, they're gonna be fair and evenhanded. They told us so.

Taco John
08-16-2007, 03:07 PM
You're basically saying, yeah they are running the new cycle and yeah they're all liberal, but trust them, they're gonna be fair and evenhanded. They told us so.



Don't trust them. Or do. When are you guys going to figure out that the news consumer has the most responsibility in the process of news consumption?

Baby Lee
08-16-2007, 03:12 PM
Don't trust them. Or do. When are you guys going to figure out that the news consumer has the most responsibility in the process of news consumption?
Were you under the impression that I was just worried that I'D get a skewed view?

jAZ
08-16-2007, 03:17 PM
OK, explain why those who express concerns are any less rational in said concerns than those who say 'you think a president who calls Ken Lay 'Kenny boy' can be fair on the Enron scandal?'

You're basically saying, yeah they are running the new cycle and yeah they're all liberal, but trust them, they're gonna be fair and evenhanded. They told us so.
It doesn't matter. That's complete off the point I'm making.

This is a story to be championed by anyone who supports a critical and objective media because it's an example of an Editor enforcing journalistic principles over catering to the political majority in his market place.

That's what good journalism is about. That's to be celebrated. By both NewsBusters, RWers, MediaMatters and LWers alike.

Unless your agenda is to institute a different institutional bias rather than institutional objectivity.

Taco John
08-16-2007, 03:19 PM
Were you under the impression that I was just worried that I'D get a skewed view?


Oh, I see... You want to control what EVERYONE else views. You're like what here? Diane Feinstein in a red dress? Are you going to advocate the Newspaper Fairness Doctrine? Give government control over what is allowed to be published or not published?

What exactly is your complaint? That Joe Schmendrick is going to get a skewed version of events and his opinion will be affected by that skewing? Here's a great idea: get a job as a newspaper reporter then and get your views in there. Don't want to do that? Then quit bitching about it and let the people who do, do their job and take some personal responsibility for how you consume news. Stop worrying about Joe Schmendrick. He's a big boy and can take care of himself.

Baby Lee
08-16-2007, 03:21 PM
Oh, I see... You want to control what EVERYONE else views. You're like what here? Diane Feinstein in a red dress? Are you going to advocate the Newspaper Fairness Doctrine? Give government control over what is allowed to be published or not published?

What exactly is your complaint? That Joe Schmendrick is going to get a skewed version of events and his opinion will be affected by that skewing? Here's a great idea: get a job as a newspaper reporter then and get your views in there. Don't want to do that? Then quit bitching about it and let the people who do, do their job and take some personal responsibility for how you consume news. Stop worrying about Joe Schmendrick. He's a big boy and can take care of himself.
That's about as well thought out as "STFU about Bush unless you're gonna run for president yourself."

Chief Henry
08-16-2007, 03:21 PM
OK, explain why those who express concerns are any less rational in said concerns than those who say 'you think a president who calls Ken Lay 'Kenny boy' can be fair on the Enron scandal?'

You're basically saying, yeah they are running the new cycle and yeah they're all liberal, but trust them, they're gonna be fair and evenhanded. They told us so.


Diz can't accept that his boys are getting caught red handed being bias... You do have to give the Executive Editor some props for
trying to portray some balance/eveness, although thats like a fart in the wind in reality.

Taco John
08-16-2007, 03:23 PM
That's about as well thought out as "STFU about Bush unless you're gonna run for president yourself."


There is nothing in this thread that is too terribly baked out. Certainly nothing you've posted.

Baby Lee
08-16-2007, 03:23 PM
It doesn't matter. That's complete off the point I'm making.

This is a story to be championed by anyone who supports a critical and objective media because it's an example of an Editor enforcing journalistic principles over catering to the political majority in his market place.

That's what good journalism is about. That's to be celebrated. By both NewsBusters, RWers, MediaMatters and LWers alike.

Unless your agenda is to institute a different institutional bias rather than institutional objectivity.
No, my 'agenda' is to make sure people know as much as possible about the process by which they get their news.

You want the story to be 'safeguards are in place.' Others want the story to be 'the process is largely peopled by liberals.'

Why not say 'the process is largely peopled by liberals AND they have xx safeguards in place?'

EDIT: Oh, and I'll take 'it doesn't matter,' as 'there is no difference.'

jAZ
08-16-2007, 03:49 PM
Why not say 'the process is largely peopled by liberals AND they have xx safeguards in place?'
Add to both of those points, the following and that's EXACTLY what I've been saying for YEARS now.

'the process is largely peopled by liberals AND they have xx safeguards in place... AND the institutional media biases (profit, senationalism, etc... see Zach's list)".

It's the "liberal media" crowd that is ignoring the practices of journalism that puts those safeguards in place, championing Fox News and their total absence of such safeguards, and who refuse to accept such a statement.

Cochise
08-16-2007, 03:50 PM
Actually, I think the left thinks the line should be "Yeah, these people are all liberals, but that's how we know they'll be unbiased" - because they don't seriously believe anyone else is capable of being unbiased. After all, no one who is afflicted by conservatism could ever have the moral fiber to discharge their duties impartially.

Baby Lee
08-16-2007, 03:54 PM
Add to both of those points, the following and that's EXACTLY what I've been saying for YEARS now.
And that's why you've been blowing the 'this is a safeguards story, not a liberals story' kazoo throughout this thread?

Chief Henry
08-16-2007, 03:54 PM
Actually, I think the left thinks the line should be "Yeah, these people are all liberals, but that's how we know they'll be unbiased" - because they don't seriously believe anyone else is capable of being unbiased. After all, no one who is afflicted by conservatism could ever have the moral fiber to discharge their duties impartially.



REP

Pitt Gorilla
08-16-2007, 04:43 PM
Isn't this the place in the conservative playbook where the person making these claims would be discredited?

jAZ
08-16-2007, 06:26 PM
And that's why you've been blowing the 'this is a safeguards story, not a liberals story' kazoo throughout this thread?
What's the context of this thread?

Dave Lane
08-18-2007, 12:04 PM
Next we'll find out teachers/professors are generally liberal.

Or that intellectuals are liberal.

Dave

patteeu
08-18-2007, 12:16 PM
What's the context of this thread?

You should have asked that before you took off on your tangent and started denying the undeniable.

Nightwish
08-18-2007, 12:27 PM
:spock: Hooting and hollering in delight at the news that Karl Rove is retiring isn't my idea of putting bias aside.

I guess you missed this part:

"It was only a couple of people who cheered and they, thankfully, are not among the people who get a say in news play."

Shall we just chalk this up as yet another example of your ability to read very selectively and ignore all else that doesn't fit your bias?

patteeu
08-18-2007, 12:32 PM
I guess you missed this part:

"It was only a couple of people who cheered and they, thankfully, are not among the people who get a say in news play."

Shall we just chalk this up as yet another example of your ability to read very selectively and ignore all else that doesn't fit your bias?

Nope, didn't miss it. Just another wrong guess on your part. Keep trying.

Nightwish
08-18-2007, 12:39 PM
Nope, didn't miss it. Just another wrong guess on your part. Keep trying.Well, if it was a wrong guess on my part, then that speaks even more ill of your ability to ignore the facts that don't fit your spin. Because if it was a wrong guess on my part, then it was a deliberate effort on your part to ignore the actual context and scope of the jeering that took place. Just proves what I've always known about you, that you favor partisanship and preconception over fact, a true wingnut to the bitter end, eh!

jAZ
08-18-2007, 12:49 PM
You should have asked that before you took off on your tangent and started denying the undeniable.
If Baby Lee refuses (or hasn't yet chosen to) respond... why don't you answer my question.

Garcia Bronco
08-18-2007, 01:29 PM
It takes a person with honor to look above their own bias and do the objective thing. It's not an easy thing to do, but of course this is lesson that most news out there these days is propaganda aka yellow journalism. It's not new, and it's not going away as long as we raise our children without honor and a proper sense of responsibility.

Adept Havelock
08-18-2007, 02:44 PM
It's not new, and it's not going away as long as we raise our children without honor and a proper sense of responsibility.


Agreed. You can start by renouncing your loyalty to the honorless and cheating Donkos. ;)

Logical
08-18-2007, 05:21 PM
Has the link changed, I went there and don't even see the relevance of the link.


Edit, I see a bunch of unsubstantiated counter opinions. Does that mean the other media is biased, or does it mean this Executive Editor is biased? I think it is up to the opinion of those who consume the news.

patteeu
08-18-2007, 05:41 PM
If Baby Lee refuses (or hasn't yet chosen to) respond... why don't you answer my question.

You and Baby Lee can work things out between yourselves. I don't understand your question. What I do understand is that you tried to deflect the clear evidence of bias in the newsroom with an alternative story about the honorable editor who was trying to avoid overt displays of that underlying bias.