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sun
05-09-2001, 10:05 PM
personally, i dont consider people members of these groups anymore: white, black, hispanic, green, red, conservative, liberal, male, female, fat, skinny, bald, old, or young......

i tend to think of people as one of these or the other:

NOT Sensitive: people who work hard, provide for their families, and just want to fish, hunt, go to theatre, shoot skeet, golf, go to the ballgame, have a bbq, enjoy the smell of fresh cut grass, or whatever floats each of their own personal boat...........without having to feel guilty about it

Sensitve: people who dont work hard but are envious of those who do, tell us how the government should provide for their families, and just want to tell the NON-Sensitives how racist, facist, greedy, misled, homophobic, uncaring, bigoted, or whatever other name the people who seem to be offended 24 hrs a day use, they are in order to make them feel guilty

personally, i wouldnt cross the street for a sensitive.......ill only provide what the government forces me to for them

which group are you in?

LapDog
05-09-2001, 10:06 PM
Good one, sun.

I think everyone knows which group I'm in.

LapDog

oleman47
05-09-2001, 10:19 PM
Is it possible to be overly sensitive to the sensitive?

LapDog
05-09-2001, 10:24 PM
oleman-

heh heh

Well if it is, I probably am!

LD

aturnis
05-09-2001, 10:31 PM
Alot of the people you do pay for, those on welfare, are just moochers who don't have jobs, don't intend to have jobs, and reproduce as fast as they can so they can get more money each month. Yet others work ten times harder than you will ever know trying to make ends meat for their families...all the laborers of the world getting paid low wages because the economy puts their services in the low ranks of the workforce heiarchy of importance. What would you all do without these services....people to build your office buildings, create your electricity(not actually created.....more like convert energy into a usable source), assemble the pieces of of your the products you purchase, filter your water, so on etc. These important people...especially the laborers make WAY too little for the work they do, and we have people sitting comfy up in their offices, making a few clicks of the mouse, a little tickling of the keys and breeze work, no labor, who are making boo-koo bucks! I think its about time somebody took another look at the order of our workforce heiarchy of importance and and re-assess the importance of these jobs.

aturnis
05-09-2001, 10:44 PM
In this thread, you have belittled those hard-workers who fit into the sensative category. I should know, when I was younger, my Mother and Father picked and scraped for every cent he could, working day in and out to survive and provide for my sisters, brother and I. We were so desperate at times....and SHOULD have gone on welfare for help....SHOULD have requested free lunches and admission to school because of our financial situations....but we didn't, we were too proud. My mother and father made it seem we were better off than was true. They dressed us well, fed us well, and everything else, we weren't the smelly kids in class, but we didn't have new cars, or a nice house, new t.v. or anything. We are well-off now, and too this day, my parents work just as hard as they ever have, even though we are now in better shape financially. I am still only 17, but when my parents did this despite having 6 kids and having to help support my 2nd cousin my grandparents took in after my cousin went MIA on him. But what about those who can't do with what they have, work hard everyday and can't make it without a little help....you are belittling your fellow americans, all the button pushers are making the money, while the laborers are living in american poverty.

tommykat
05-09-2001, 11:07 PM
LapDog,
This has to be the shortest replies of yours I have ever seen.....:)
Toomykat doesn't hardly drink, but opened some wine tonight and tried to read some of what you have written and IT looks like a story!

:D just giving you a hard time.

Phobia
05-09-2001, 11:10 PM
I didn't see where anybody has made disparaging remarks about blue collared workers. Clearly, they work the hardest for their buck over anyone. I respect that because I've been there. I didn't like working that hard for $8 an hour. That's why I work a desk job in IT now. I think blue collars should be paid a helluva a lot more than they actually do but I also believe professional football players should have to PAY to play their men's GAME. That would separate the lovers of the GAME from the lovers of the GREEN really quick. I'd pay to play in a heartbeat! I pay every week to play softball & volleyball. Why not?

LapDog
05-09-2001, 11:32 PM
tommykat-

That's pretty funny. Yes I've been in the thick of things. That's what you get when you have too much time and are somewhat compulsive.

LD

sun
05-09-2001, 11:36 PM
aturnis:
youre missing the point: your parents should be commended for what they have done/are doing, working hard and providing, they fit into the NOT sensitive catagory.........you, on the other hand, fit into the sensitive catagory (see your posts below) no one in america is entitled to anything, you have to work for what you have/get....some people are going to get more for what they do than others....this is why some people go to college, become doctors, accountants, salesmen, nurses, engineers, etc.....life is not fair, you can either deal with it and take care of yourself or stay sensitive

tommykat
05-09-2001, 11:36 PM
LapDog,
Don't be so annal...:D
I've always been that way, but hit the 40's <<OUCH!! and things aren't that big of a deal now.

Chill out.....:p or give it time for the age to hit...LOL

LapDog
05-09-2001, 11:43 PM
aturnis-

FWIW, I've always said that the garbage man is as important as the doctor in our society. On that basis, we should all have equal pay. It's pretty socialistic. The problem is that whole supply and demand thing. Many people can be garbage men. All it takes is a strong back and an slightly lower-than-average IQ to be effective. It takes a lot more capability to be a doctor, so the supply is less and the salary reflects that. And, if everybody got paid the same, many would not make the extra sacrifice to learn the more complex jobs.

LD

tommykat
05-09-2001, 11:48 PM
Lapdog,
Whoa, what a wrong thing to say.....All it takes is a strong back and an slightly lower-than-average IQ to be effective.
Do you know those guys start/make $40,000 a year?'
Shoot, I would do that and not thinking IQ or strong back. It's the truck with the back...ya know the lifting?
You goofed on that reply...:(

Phobia
05-09-2001, 11:53 PM
$40k isn't what it used to be. That's basically $20 an hour.

A doctor generally makes MUCH more than that. Depending on what their specialty is, they can start in the mid $100's.

Maybe he wasn't using the best example. How about an entry level landscaper (weed puller/lawnboy)....

LapDog
05-09-2001, 11:55 PM
tommykat,

Did I?

Also, I wasn't saying garbage men have low IQ. I was saying that I don't think they need even an average IQ to do that job. They also don't need years of education and training. Obviously they have to be able to operate the equipment, but I suspect it's pretty simple. The primary concern would be safety issues. On the strong back, I just meant that lifting bags all day requires some physical stamina.

I thought they were closer to $25-30k, but still $40,000 is barely half what my salary was before my company went under, so it doesn't sound very high to me. (Anyone looking for a C++/NT guy?) :)

LapDog
if there are any offended garbage men out there, then today just isn't my day. :)

LapDog
05-10-2001, 12:01 AM
KPhobia's example is better, but I haven't always been saying that. I've always used garbage men as my example. I would have to rephrase the sentence (which I didn't want to do) to use a different example.

:)

tommykat
05-10-2001, 12:14 AM
I won't say KPhobia's example isn't better. I was just stating what they make or what my Waste guy makes.
I think I got in the middle of something and maybe I don't know what all I a trying to reply to. Sorry guys for that. On this note....I'm off to bed.
You all have a good night and have fun. Talk to you all tomorrow...:D

Rausch
05-10-2001, 12:23 AM
Money and wages just aren't what they use to be...I plan on getting a Journalism degree, and use that as a source of income until I can call myself a novelist. Which may be never at the rate I'm going. Or worse, I'll die and 200 years later I'm the next Eddy Poe or Whitman or some such shi....

So far I've made $50 from a poem promised to be published by Omni, the ufo freak mag, only to be yanked for a (u guessed it) ufo story. AND THIS WAS A CONTEST! I GOT my $50 check and a "Sorry, but..." letter...


Ideas are not the commodity they use to be...:-)#

keg in kc
05-10-2001, 12:34 AM
Hey Brad.

I hear you man...

Something is just holding me back from writing my novel. Maybe it's the new house and the amount of work here. Just a guess...

I think it's actually something deeper than that. Fear of failure, insecurity, etc. But I'd rather just think I'm busy.

By the way, I meant to tell you that I just got a note from Poetry.com, I'd imagine it's similar to the one you told us all about on the Star board a few months ago. You know, getting a poem published along with everyone and their brother...

But hell, I can call myself a published author at least, and only be half lying. ;)

It's not a novel but it's a start at least...

I guess...

Clint in Wichita
05-10-2001, 07:17 AM
Someone who is so insecure that they must belittle others while having their back patted by other like-minded individuals is what I would call "sensitive".

Substituting the words "sensitive" and "insensitive" for "liberal" and "conservative"...


Gee, how clever. :rolleyes:

milkman
05-10-2001, 04:58 PM
I'm a hard working blue collar worker, with a strong back and that "lack of education".
I am doing what I'm doing by choice. I have a fairly high IQ, and found school to be extremely boring, and had no desire to sit through even more years of classes after graduating from high school. I believe if you actually knew some of these garbage men or landscapers, you'd find that they are the same.
I think you'd find out that most blue collar workers would like to make the kind of salaries that you desk jockies make, but wouldn't trade jobs with you in order to earn that type of salary.
You can have your desk job. I don't want it.
I'm out on my own all day, Get off of work when I'm done with my route, work a 4 day week, and have seen my boss twice in the last 2 years, and make enough money to live the life I want to live.

aturnis
05-10-2001, 05:04 PM
Why exactly did you say that I am in the Not Sensative category, I'm still not picking up what your laying down here.

LapDog
05-10-2001, 05:53 PM
red eyes-
It sounds like I've offended you. I grew up in a blue collar environment. I'm not clueless about "the little people". I grew up in a government subsidized house in a fairly well-to-do neighborhood. I was the poor kid who got picked on because he wore hand-me-downs and Keds instead of Izod and Jordache. Don't act like I don't know what it's like to be "the common man".

I wasn't slamming blue collar workers. I wasn't slamming people who don't have college degrees. I wasn't slamming people with low IQs. I wasn't saying garbage men, or other blue collar workers have low IQ's. I wasn't slamming people with salaries lower than mine. Hell... I've been unemployed for almost three months. What could possess me to slam somebody who has a decent paying job that makes them happy? NOBODY on this thread has been saying anything of these things.

I was merely stating that most jobs in today's society are equally important. We can't operate without garbage men. We can't operate without plumbers. We can't operate without doctors, pilots, cooks, hair stylists, factory workers, and a million other things. We are all contributing necessary work and, on that basis, we would/should all get equal pay.

I was also stating that salaries are dictated by supply and demand. Many jobs have a high supply of workers, so the pay is at one level. Many jobs require years of training and education, and come with lots of stress. Fewer people are willing to make those kinds of sacrifices, so those jobs usually pay at a much higher level. This is capitalism at it's most basic level.

You choose your job at one salary level, to avoid the stress of being a programmer. It makes you happy. I coose my programming job at its salary level because it makes me happy. Neither of us chooses to make $150,000 a year as a doctor, because neither of us thinks it's worth the sacrifice. That's why they get paid what they do, you get paid what you do, and I get paid what I do. There's no judgement in those statements (or any others that I made on this subject).

Why is it that everybody is so easily offended when race, education, and intelligence enter the picture?

LapDog

aturnis
05-10-2001, 06:43 PM
WORD TO THE MILKMAN.......BLUE COLLARS ROLL ON!

oleman47
05-10-2001, 06:52 PM
When I was stationed in France after the Korean War the French had a national strike, all workers just stayed home! This was by far the most effective answer to the politicians. Now sometimes a big strike was called but few participated, this too was effective in reverse.

I was just wondering here what would happen if Milkman and the rest would just take off the next day after Labor Day. Maybe just a gentle nudge. What if workers just got sick one day. I saw this with City employees in Chicago. Mayor Daley, the elder, got the message fast, by about 10.00 AM.

milkman
05-10-2001, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by LapDog
aturnis-

. All it takes is a strong back and an stylightly lower-than-average IQ to be effective.

LD

This is what I found to be offensive.
I'll assume that isn't what you intended to say, and move on.

Bob Dole
05-10-2001, 08:09 PM
oleman,

Would that be the same Chicago where the wonderful city workers clocked in, dumped their load of asphalt or whatever under a bridge, parked their city trucks and went to work at another job?

Bob Dole would resist the temptation to use Chicago city employees as a "good" example of anything...

oleman47
05-10-2001, 08:17 PM
Bob Dole,
For Chicago your're example is too mild. I learned what ethic meant. Do go there. Loved the food, hated the commute. Couldn't imagine a city letting a guy like Daley run it. Regardless of party they loved him. Said he makes it work, no one else can.

aturnis
05-10-2001, 08:42 PM
I usually do what work I can involving actual work, I can't stand sitting inside on my arse all day, I feel worthless. I have to know that I have actually done something. This is why once highschool is out for summer, I'm going to work construction...decent pay for a high-schooler, real work, doing something construction(no pun intended), work on a tan, and learn the value of a dollar.

aturnis:

Just like his father before him...proud to be blue collar.....

LapDog
05-10-2001, 08:43 PM
milkman-

I really have more to say about that, but if you're willing to let it go, so am I.

Peace
LapDog

sun
05-10-2001, 08:51 PM
this wasnt intended to be a blue collar vs. white collar thread..........there are indeed fine people who work both kinds of jobs and there are worthless people who work both too.........if you want to be a construction worker then be the best damn construction worker there is and enjoy yourself, but realize that you made that choice and dont begrudge me because of it........that's all im saying

aturnis
05-10-2001, 08:55 PM
Why exactly did you say that I am in the Sensative category, I'm still not picking up what your laying down here.

LapDog
05-10-2001, 09:08 PM
aturnis-

I can't speak for Sun, but you seem to fit the sensitive category to me as well. Since you seem to be sincerely asking, I'll try to give you some insight.

This thread was originally about sensitive vs. insensitive. There was a fair amount of sarcasm and underlying meaning in the original post relating to people who take offense too easily. In my mind it was primarily about those people who are on welfare who are quick to accuse somebody else of racism and of being the source for all their problems.

Your very first reply is immediately taking offense because the wording somehow seemed to imply to you that he was saying all people in the 'sensitive' category are lazy people who don't work. Rather than address the original intent of the post, you took it off on a tangent that was only loosely related at best.

Then, in your second reply, you practically come out and state that you fit the second category. You also convey an increased sense of being offended by using the word 'belittle'.

You radiate the impression that you are upset because nobody is giving the working man any credit or reward for what he does. It seems like you're taking it personally. The telling point is that his original post wasn't even about blue collar vs. white collar. It was about people who are too easily offended. This is the hallmark of somebody who is easily offended, or 'sensitive'. They don't look at the meaning of the message because they are too busy taking it out of context.

LapDog
nothing personal

sun
05-10-2001, 09:12 PM
arturnis:
i said that because in your earlier posts you said that the blue collars should get paid more just because the "button pushers" get paid more..........a NOT Sensitive would say a blue collar should get paid more because he/she has learned a new skill, made him/herself more valuable to his/her company.......also because you said your parents SHOULD have gone on welfare.......this is really disturbing to me......no one SHOULD go on welfare.........i would expect that if you went and asked your father what he is most proud of, somewhere in the answer would be that he DIDNT put his family on welfare.

as i said in previous posts, life is not fair, some people are going to get paid more than others whether you think they are earning it or worth it or not........if your goal is to make the most money possible, you have to further your education and get a "button pusher" job, it may not be fair, but it is the way it is.....

I should also point out this: i deal with blue collar workers every day, all day........i sell supplies commonly used by mechanics, electricians, servicemen, technicians, etc..........and 99% of them are very happy with their lives.......sure they would like to make more money, but they are working hard and earning their living, and providing for their families.......and they dont complain or feel theyve been shafted by some "button pusher".......i have the upmost respect for these people .......this thread was meant to point out that there are people out there who feel they are entitled to something other than what they work for.......this 99% of the time does not apply to blue collar workers