View Full Version : Let's hear what you think on this McVeigh crap~
05-10-2001, 10:28 PM
Personally, I think just another screw up~This is a tough call, but doing what he did he should be put to death.
Not one that usually thinks this.
05-10-2001, 10:39 PM
I am not a proponent of the death penality but he has shown no remorse for his crime. He thinks nothing about the people he killed and that is the position I take about his execution. (think nothing about it)
I think McVeigh is happy that his life will serve as a great exception for many death penalty opponents. I think he's one of those twisted f*ckhead young-revolutionary types who is all too glad to sacrifice his life for the advance of his political goals, an increase in the use of the death penalty being one of them.
That said, I support my country taking his life. I believe that's an appropriate response to any failed insurrectionist whose actions result in the loss of innocent human life.
keg in kc
05-10-2001, 10:51 PM
Call me a conspiracy nut if you want to, but I think McVeigh is a scapegoat for something much bigger. There's just too much evidence of it, and lo and behold today his defense team is told in no uncertain terms by the Justice Department that the FBI withheld evidence from them. Too many questions:
1) There's significant evidence that there was more than one explosion.
2) Why were ALL members of the ATF and a federal judge told not to be in the building that morning via an internal memo (which is on record)?
3) Why was the demolition of the building moved up by two weeks when people were asking to have it delayed in order to allow a more in depth study of the debris?
4) How could they have identified the Ryder truck by a number on the rear axle when, according to Ryder, their trucks have no identifying numbers on the rear axle.
5) Why did the crater not match the type of bomb supposedly used?
6) Why has Terry Nichols been painted as a militant white-supremecist when he has been twice married to minority women, and had children with both of them.
And those are just the first six questions on the top of my head. If I felt like taking the time, I could come up with twenty or thirty more.
Something is rotten in OKC.
Oh, I do think McVeigh was involved, but I don't think he's the only one who should be made to answer for this.
05-10-2001, 10:52 PM
Unfortunately another FBI screw up!!
05-10-2001, 10:56 PM
As long as they have SOMEONE to execute, the public will be happy. Talk about supply and demand.
05-10-2001, 11:04 PM
That's what all military white-supremacists do. They marry minorities to disguise their true selves! ;)
Clint in Wichita
05-10-2001, 11:18 PM
He's getting off too easy, IMO. The pus$ gets to simply fall asleep.
He should be drawn and quartered IMO.
05-10-2001, 11:22 PM
There is SUCH a supply. Just think about all your money going to these people in prison that watch TV. work out, play games, 3 meals a day, bedding, shelter. Shoot, they are better off than our homeless people! That is sick~
05-10-2001, 11:38 PM
Tommykat, how many people in prison on victimless crimes? I think you need to look at the fact that we have 2 million in our prison system. More than any counrty. What's worse, they do little to help prisoners rehab for aproductive life on the outside.
My supply and demand quote was in gist on how someone has to pay. A little over a hundred years ago public hangings were still commonplace.
05-10-2001, 11:44 PM
Go to the bottom and use Spell Check, or lay off. I have someheat:confused: of what you are trying to say. But I'm thinking tonight is now the time to talk with you.
05-10-2001, 11:45 PM
Stevieray, sorry didn't know there were vicitmless crimes
05-10-2001, 11:50 PM
Spellcheck or lay off? What the hell are you talking about??Is jist spelled with a J? You need to lighten up.
Who is the victim for possessing marijuana? when a prostitute and john have sex?
05-11-2001, 12:03 AM
Good grief......lighten up son! Just talking and having some fun tonight... Anyway, we all have opions and for some reason we are butting heads for no reason. So I won't bother you...:D NOT
05-11-2001, 12:06 AM
By all means, if you can't hold a conversation without freaking out , then don't .
I can only ASSUME that you are angry because you ASSUMED that my opinion on the publics view of prisoners is somehow tied into how I feel about McViegh.
I think he's a chickensh*t who is scared to death right now,and damn well better be.
05-11-2001, 12:08 AM
your last post .makes no sense whatsoever.
05-11-2001, 12:09 AM
Sorry everyone, an arguement over this jerk, he isn't worth it. Lets talk Chiefs super bowl or something important.
05-11-2001, 12:13 AM
Nice rebuttal, Gale. not.
You are right, he isn't worth it.
05-11-2001, 12:16 AM
You just don't know me well enough to ask that. I'm just tired from working in the yard all day. A question though......do you always put people down for their opions or is it because I happen to be a lady?? I'm outa here for the night..)
05-11-2001, 12:20 AM
Where did I put you down?
Not to meddle in your conversation with tommykat, but I think that her "spell-check" comment might have been slang for "please rephrase your comment, I'm having trouble understanding". Even though that sounds kind of weird, that's about the only way that seems to make any sense. She probably didn't intend for you to take it literally, even though that was the most natural thing for you to do. Anyway, that's my guess about this very strange conversation. Must have been a tough day for her. ;)
05-11-2001, 12:52 AM
Alot of merit in what KEG said. But with an incident of such great magnitude the flaws of investigation [which there always are] are so widely publicized leaving questions unanswered and leaving the door wide open for conspiracy theories... That's to be expected.
With that said, reguardless of his level of involvement, McVeigh is obviously guilty of involvement and intent and should no doubt receive the death penalty.
I do have to agree with CLINT. Being "put to sleep" is much to light of a sentence. I say surgically implant about 100lbs. of C4 in the bastage and stick him in bomb detonation tank... Let the punishment fit the crime.
My concern is that he will become a mythic figure for all the nutbags with a grudge against the government.
Let me state that I have lots of grudges against the government, but I reserve the "nutbag" label for those who would blow up public property and kill people to strike a blow against Big Brother.
I believe in capital punishment, but I suspect we all would be better served by locking him up for the rest of his natural life. Dead, he is a martyr. Alive, he is just another convict.
Does not want the nutbags to have a role model.
I would describe it as a deterrent. They should cut his balls off and let him bleed to death.
05-11-2001, 08:42 AM
They should have let the victims families decide what his sentence should have been.
05-11-2001, 08:43 AM
I see now that he gets a 60 minutes interview...Free TV time to send his little message...thats just great.....right with you GAZ on the martyr thing...
I agree with Clint on the "go to sleep thing".....
It would be more appropriate to tie his arse down and give each family member of someone killed a ball peen hammer, let them one by one smash a pinky toe against a brick and just keep moving around until he's hamburger....then maybe "stone him" with pieces of the building.....now thats a 60 minutes episode.
Or maybe take him to the desert, pull out about 20' of intestine, wrap it around a cactus, and let the coyotes and buzzards do the rest....
~doesn't think too much of people who kill little kids.
05-11-2001, 08:48 AM
Iowa putting a little CDB into the mix. Gotta like it. I won't tell you what my father thinks they should do to rapists.
Fortunately, I'm losing 3 $5 bets that he is going to be terminated. Made those bets back when it first happened.
Best $15 I ever spent
Don't you think that the nutbags will see him as a martyr? A Real American Hero who Struck a Blow against the Evil Repressive Government and was killed for his Patriotic Actions?
Dead, McVeigh is an icon, right up there with Patrick Henry. Alive, he is just a convict.
As I said before, I am in favor of capital punishment, but I am not convinced that executing McVeigh is the best option because of the nutbags and the martyr factor.
Sees no good resolution of this.
Perhaps you are right. However, if they didn't execute him, it would be a PR nightmare. I believe that most people in this country want him executed. Personally, I would like to see them do it differently. You know, something that would make him suffer. I've seen some good suggestions on here already. Yes, I do believe he will be viewed as a martyr to some of those left wing wackos. Still, I also believe that it may serve as a deterrent to more of the wackos. In the end, he will be judged, and I'm not talking about being judged by man.
I'm not familiar with Patrick Henry. Tell about that.
05-11-2001, 09:02 AM
Actually, I think it would be great if they "screwed" with guys like Mcveigh....make them walk to the yellow mama once a day....never knowing which day was the day...throw the switch, and give them just a little "stinger zap"....and say "see you tomorrow lightbulb."
When I run for Pres, many won't like my ideas for curbing murder and rape either......and theft....might call the Taliban for some ideas.
Patrick Henry's famous quotation is:
"I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death."
Although perhaps a better example would be the words spoken by Nathan Hale on the gallows before being hung by the British:
"I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country."
I can certainly visualize the nutbags raising McVeigh up as a Hero and Patriot in the vein of Henry or Hale.
True, the victims, and the American people as a whole probably "need" an execution. He certainly deserves the death penalty, IMO.
I just hate to feed the nutbags.
Can think of no really viable alternative.
05-11-2001, 10:23 AM
That would be kinda painful, but not even close to what kind of pain he inflicted of those families.
05-11-2001, 10:33 AM
Great post. I agree with Keg on this one. The FBI is corrupt beyond belief. I don't know if any of you will remember when I was going on and on about this and the TWA flight 800 and WACO. There was footage of the plane being shot down on TV by an obvious missile the morning after. They never showed that footage again. There was also a special on the bombing where they interviewed the guy that rented the truck to those guys and he stated that there was a third guy who was obviously in charge. He gave a detailed description of this guy to the FBI and they even did a composite drawing of him. He said he was shocked that they never showed the main guy when they released the drawings. That footage was never shown again as well. Most of the people posting on this BB at the time inferred that I was a liar and never saw any of this. Now the FBI is going to pretend they just misplaced a little evidence? BS, it was on freaking TV. I also believe that it MAY be more than a coincidence that all of this happened just in time for us to lose many of our freedoms and our right to privacy when they passed the anti-terrorist bill right after all of this. There is and has been many lawsuits regarding the OCB as well due to all of inconsistencies surrounding this case, but of course, none of this has gotten ANY attention from the mainstream press. Now you can all tell me I am crazy again.
McVeigh should not be subject to punishment more severe than any convicted murderer.
Capital punishment should not be used for retribution. Capital punishment should be used to remove an irredeemable member from society. I would be content with banishment as an alternative to execution. Of course, I would also immediately put a bullet in his brain if he ever set foot on American soil again.
I remember when Bundy was executed. People were cheering. That sickened me. Murderer or not, a person was killed. Capital punishment should be like putting down a rabid dog. You do it, but you should not enjoy it.
Finds no joy in killing McVeigh.
05-11-2001, 10:35 AM
BTW, if you kill him now, the truth will die with him.
05-11-2001, 10:39 AM
He`s getting Lethal Injection. What kind of punishment is that?! We should all be so lucky.
05-11-2001, 10:55 AM
What does that say about our society?
It says we're too lazy to put forth the effort to help these criminals.
Forget that it's actually cheaper to rehab than to incarcerate, it's just easier to kill 'em or lock 'em up.
We should just execute everyone that's in prison right now and start over.
05-11-2001, 10:57 AM
They just announced a 30 day delay so they can make it appear that they did their proper due-diligence and then sweep it under the carpet. No surprise here. This is going to be just like TWA flight 800. They even had a guy cut off a piece of the seat and send it to an independent lab. The residue on the seats came back positive for rocket fuel. They had him arrested for interfering with an investigation and it got no mainstream media attention. If anybody thinks they are really going to try and get to the bottom of this they are wacked.
Still waiting for someone to say I am crazy. Where is that left-winger Clint when you need him.
05-11-2001, 11:15 AM
Just like Columbus, Galileo and Einstein were.
So much corruption...
So many political agendas...
To what end?
05-11-2001, 12:15 PM
Rehabing these criminals doesnt work. Ask the family of Polly Klass and some of these families who have been victims of criminals who have been released from prison. I believe that if you commit the crime pay the dime.
05-11-2001, 12:18 PM
He is a P.o.S scumbag killer. I think he should be locked up and never heard from again.
I disapprove of the death penalty for a number of reasons. But I will post only this one.
The Judaical system is part of the government as such they are inherently incompetent. I am not comfortable with the Government have the power to make life and death decisions for its citizens.
Where can one find some of the information you have been referring to?
I don't think that he could ever play in the NFL.
We should just execute everyone that's in prison right now and start over.
This bit of overzealous hyperbole is fine example of why it is so difficult to have a rational discussion on sensitive subjects. Rather than discuss the issues, it is easier to just hurl distorted invective to discredit the opposing view.
I am in favor of capital punishment for certain crimes against people. I would not apply the death penalty for crimes against property, but when someone deliberately takes the life of another person without self-defense as a justification, that person should be eligible for execution.
Sentimental calls for rehabilitation are all fine and good, but some people are simply irredeemable and should be put down for the good of society.
Filing this one away with poor camps and dog food for his Grandma.
05-11-2001, 12:25 PM
Ashcroft is holding a press conference indicating the FBI failed to turn over evidence in the case. The FBI is to be investigated by the Judicial Department of the government therefore the executation has been delayed until June 11,2001.
05-11-2001, 01:47 PM
I posted a lot of stuff. Is there something specifically that you are looking for? I know some of you don't like Newsmax but they have done a GREAT job of covering TWA flight 800. I have also read a couple of books on that but it has been so long that I would have to go home and dig them out to let you know what they were. The film that clearly showed the missile shooting down the plane was shot from the backyard of a party by a citizen. They showed it on channel 2 news in the SF Bay area the morning after the flight went down. I have never been able to see it again. There is were literally 100s of witnesses including military personnel who wold know what missile would look like shooting something down. There are many sights, here is one www.twa800.com The interview with the guy that rented the truck I could not tell you because I didn't understand the magnitude of what I was seeing at the time. It was about 3 days after the bombing and they still didn't know who did it. One of the things that has struck me as suspicious in this case is that McVeighs defense was originally that he was set up by other people. When he went to court the Judge said that evidence was inadmissible. Inadmissible? It was his entire case. Now the FBI is saying that they just came across this evidence? BS It is hard to say what is motivating them to come out with this now. Maybe someone has an agenda against Louise Freeh. Someone should. They should fry Freeh and Reno with him when they do. How much corruption are we going to allow?
keg in kc
05-11-2001, 02:16 PM
TWA800.com is a tremendous site.
I read something on this a few days ago that discussed the possibility that the plane got caught in a test run for an EMP weapon, too. I don't remember all of it (skimming at the time) but they discussed how many ships were out in maneuvers at the time and that the profile of the explosion fit the M.O. of what EMP would do.
Then again, like the man said, there's literally a ton of evidence that at least one missile was seen, and by dozens of witnesses, some of whom I remember hearing interviewed the night the plane went down (but have not seen on the air since...).
I certainly do not believe every conspiracy that comes down the pike, but IMHO there's something going on with both the flight 800 coverup (that's what I think it is...) and with the McVeigh charade/debacle.
Concerning the OKC event, here's an interesting website (it's a bit fringe...) that deals with some of the more popular issues: OKC bomb (http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/OK/ok.html)
Now, I will reiterate it's a fringe website, heavily right-wing, that contains much I do not agree with, but the fact remains that there's material on there regarding the bombing (mostly multiple blast information) that is very thought-provoking and, as sad as it is to say it, you have to dig up info like this because you just won't find it on cnn.com...
05-11-2001, 02:21 PM
I have always found the "it just blew up" explanation kinda hard to swallow.
05-11-2001, 02:22 PM
It's kind of funny in hind sight. The last time I was ranting about this stuff I posted a lot of areas I was getting information from. Someone would always come on and print some government source that said it was BS. Frankly, if you can cover up TWA Flight 800 with that many witnesses and direct evidence, you can cover up anything. We will NEVER know what happened in this bombing. The sheeples will always believe our government and mainstream media no matter what they say. Clint is a prime example. I went rounds with him on this subject. As long as there is steak on the table, people won't care.
05-11-2001, 03:15 PM
Rick, I realize not every criminal can be rehabbed. I think our society should at least try, but where to draw the line?
Gaz, my comment was in jest. I'm against capital punishment in general, but I realize that some cases merit it. To me, these are few and far between.
Again, where to draw the line? There will always be cases that are on a fine line between not deserving it and really deserving death.
I know I don't want to make that kind of call(life/death), 'ceptin' on the easy ones.
If we're going to have cap. punishment, we really should get 'em before they reproduce, thereby eliminating the bad element from the gene pool. :D
05-11-2001, 07:06 PM
Thank you Dan T.
I was exhausted yesterday, and was just kidding him about the spell check thing. It's hard to see emotions and facial expressions...LOL. So sometimes one takes it the wrong way. Oh well.....:p<<now that was a joke.
05-11-2001, 07:22 PM
I am catching all of this late and stuff. What are you talking about with McVeigh? Are you suggesting that he is innocent or that there were others involved?
05-11-2001, 07:35 PM
I was watching a recap with McVeigh awhile back on 60 minutes. They asked him about his thoughts on his death. He stated that he knew how he was going to die, where as in the Gulf War you don't. His face was just like, "so what". He has no remorse for what he did and states that. I would read more about him but, I refuse to let my money go towards him. I would give it to OKC.
You would think that someone sitting where he is would put some thought into where he is going. You can see he doesn't. If we did like a lot of the other countries like if you committ a crime they cut your hand off. Only one more chance. I know that sounds cruel to some, but if we did as some of them do, we wouldn't have over crowded prisons and be paying for them to sit there and eat, workout. We could feed the homeless, or for that matter, we probably wouldn't have homeless if not for all the people in prision.
Sometimes I wonder if the US doesn't have our priorities in the wrong places. :confused:
05-11-2001, 08:22 PM
I agree, thanks Tancredi.
You're welcome, stevieray and tommykat! I knew that both of you have been good-faith posters, so I figured that the miscommunication was completely unintended, yet hard to diagnose. ;)
05-11-2001, 08:40 PM
Actually, Dan, something very wonderful happened today. Made me realize how fortunate I am, and how I've said many things on the star board that I'm not proud of. It's really not who I am, and it is NOT the reason I've been here for three years. I came here to hangout with fellow Chief fans. Learn something along the way, and maybe make acouple posters laugh from time to time. I won't post at the park. Nice format, but I've watched tooo many other posters who had a problem with certain posters walk away. And never go back. That board is infected, as far I am concerned, I don;t want to read anymore about the Raiders. I can get my info here from JQ and Ugly duck.
The planet is very laid back, without someone always having to be right, and never have the courage to admit they are wrong. Sure there is smack,. but tolerable smack.
I'm done being personally attacking anyone, unless it's packfan....:cool:
05-11-2001, 09:22 PM
LOL....you'll learn to eat crow pretty well. ;) I know I have eaten it enough. I sure hate it to step on toes, but being human it will happen no matter what..:D
See at least here we all try to get along and talk it out. Even if it takes another to point it out. Pretty cool huh?
05-11-2001, 10:40 PM
Not going there again.
05-12-2001, 12:15 AM
Anytime you believe that someone should die, for whatever reason, you are thinking just like Tim. Hypocracy at its best.
05-12-2001, 12:17 AM
if a mistrial is not granted, our judicial system will hold about as much credibility as our FBI. Its a matter of law.
05-12-2001, 12:19 AM
Try telling that to the family members of his victims.
05-12-2001, 12:23 AM
Maybe public sentiment should determine the fate of a human life. Or, do you think as humans we're smarter and more civilized than that? "Ye who are without sin, cast the first stone."
05-12-2001, 12:27 AM
I may not be without sin, but I damn sure never blew a bunch of people up with an explosives-packed rental truck.
I think I can safely say I've sinned a lot less than McVeigh.
Call it justice, vengence, or merely pest control - I'm cool with all of the above. This guy deserves to fry. The world will be a better place when he's no longer in it.
05-12-2001, 12:38 AM
He does deserve to fry. But, I think a better punishment would be to confine him to a room for the rest of his life, with pictures of the 168 lives that he, at least , took part in ending. Absolutely ZERO contact with outside world.
05-12-2001, 12:40 AM
"Judge not lest ye be judged yourself." Let me put it this way, I believe that SOMEONE will ultimately be judged for his execution.
05-12-2001, 12:42 AM
McVeigh doesn't give a damn about the 168 lives he took. He was after the Feds, got some of them, and the rest were collateral damage. He is remorseless. He is also a waste of oxygen. The judge should've shot the f#cker in the courtroom.
05-12-2001, 12:44 AM
Pitt - I`ll have to disagree with you there. I believe god has a little better degree of judgement when it comes to these matters.
05-12-2001, 12:47 AM
You're right, Frazod. We should circumvent the judicial system whenever we see fit. Why even call a jury? To be honest, with the current level of integrity supplied by the FBI, I might not want to take my chances in court anyway.
05-12-2001, 12:51 AM
I have no doubt that you probably know God better than I do. I just go by what I read. "Thou shalt not kill(commit murder)" Not "Thou shalt not kill, except when everybody thinks its cool and justified and all the sick f*ucks need to see some killin"
05-12-2001, 12:54 AM
Relax, Pitt, that was obviously a flip comment.
However, the guy did BLOW UP 168 PEOPLE. What do you propose - probation?
05-12-2001, 12:55 AM
Anytime you believe that someone should die, for whatever reason, you are thinking just like Tim. Hypocracy at its best.
Okay, lets say someone enters my home and chokes my son-then I grab a bat and smash his skull in - is that hypocracy?
05-12-2001, 01:00 AM
It has been generally accepted in the court of law that when acting in self defense, one usually doesn't think or "believe" anything. The person "acts" in self defense, which is what you are describing. Premeditation is a completely different thing. Execution YEARS after the offense is premeditated, not self defense. You surely understand the difference....
05-12-2001, 01:01 AM
No, it would be justice, vengence and pest control. And I'm still cool with it.
05-12-2001, 01:02 AM
I'm not sure I'm qualified to pronounce any sort of judgement. Remember?
05-12-2001, 01:04 AM
Well, I guess I'm not either - but the jury that sentenced him to death was. Works for me.
05-12-2001, 01:06 AM
I understand where you`re coming from. I know 1 of the Ten Comm. is 'thou shalt not kill' , but, correct me if I`m wrong, but the Bible says an eye for an eye.
05-12-2001, 01:19 AM
The Bible is actually overflowing with killing, much of it condoned by, sanctioned by, or just plain ordered by the Almighty Himself. I guess the commandment should read "Thou Shalt Not Kill, Unless...."
Anyone quoting scripture to back up their anti-capital punishment views needs to read a bit more than that one line, IMHO.
05-12-2001, 01:24 AM
How dreadful it is when the right judge judges wrong!
Sophocles (495 BC - 406 BC), Antigone
05-12-2001, 01:27 AM
Oh crap, here come the quotes. :eek:
I'll defer the quote battle to raiderhader - he'll reduce you to tears by the end of the weekend.
Running away in fear....
keg in kc
05-12-2001, 01:27 AM
Frazod, you hit the nail on the head with that one.
05-12-2001, 01:33 AM
Sorry, Dude, I didn't mean to start a quote thing. I'll be quiet and try not to use quotes again. I've just been around them so much in academia that they've almost become commonplace. Seriously sorry.
05-12-2001, 02:03 AM
I am in complete agreement with Pitt Gorilla on this one.
We shall not kill as it is stated in one on the Commandments.
So let's torture the SOB every freaking day he is incarcerated!
Death is too easy for him....
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