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View Full Version : Hip Hop Sales Collapsing: "They can no longer fool the white kids."


|Zach|
08-21-2007, 02:41 PM
http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1653639,00.html

When the political activist Al Sharpton pivoted from his war against bigmouth radio man Don Imus to a war on bad-mouth gangsta rap, the instinct among older music fans was to roll their eyes and yawn. Ten years ago, another activist, C. Delores Tucker, launched a very similar campaign to clean up rap music. She focused on Time Warner (parent of TIME), whose subsidiary Interscope was home to hard-core rappers Snoop Dogg and Tupac Shakur. In 1995 Tucker succeeded in forcing Time Warner to dump Interscope.

Her victory was Pyrrhic. Interscope flourished, launching artists like 50 Cent and Eminem and distributing the posthumous recordings of Shakur. And the genre exploded across the planet, with rappers emerging everywhere from Capetown to the banlieues of Paris. In the U.S. alone, sales reached $1.8 billion.

The lesson was Capitalism 101: rap music's market strength gave its artists permission to say what they pleased. And the rappers themselves exhibited an entrepreneurial bent unlike that of musicians before them. They understood the need to market and the benefits of line extensions. Theirs was capitalism with a beat.

Today that same market is telling rappers to please shut up. While music-industry sales have plummeted, no genre has fallen harder than rap. According to the music trade publication Billboard, rap sales have dropped 44% since 2000 and declined from 13% of all music sales to 10%. Artists who were once the tent poles at rap labels are posting disappointing numbers. Jay-Z's return album, Kingdom Come, for instance, sold a gaudy 680,000 units in its first week, according to Billboard. But by the second week, its sales had declined some 80%. This year rap sales are down 33% so far.

Longtime rap fans are doing the math and coming to the same conclusions as the music's voluminous critics. In February, the filmmaker Byron Hurt released Beyond Beats and Rhymes, a documentary notable not just for its hard critique but for the fact that most of the people doing the criticizing were not dowdy church ladies but members of the hip-hop generation who deplore rap's recent fixation on the sensational.

Both rappers and music execs are clamoring for solutions. Russell Simmons recently made a tepid call for rappers to self-censor the words ****** and bitch from their albums. But most insiders believe that a debate about profanity and misogyny obscures a much deeper problem: an artistic vacuum at major labels. "The music community has to get more creative," says Steve Rifkin, CEO of SRC Records. "We have to start betting on the new and the up-and-coming for us to grow as an industry. Right now, I don't think anyone is taking chances. It's a big-business culture."

It's the ultimate irony. Since the 1980s, when Run-DMC attracted sponsorship from Adidas, the rap community has aspired to be big business. By the '90s, those aspirations had become a reality. In a 1999 cover story, TIME reported that with 81 million CDs sold, rap was officially America's top-selling music genre. The boom produced enterprises like Roc-A-Fella, which straddled fashion, music and film and in 2001 was worth $300 million. It produced moguls like No Limit's Master P and Bad Boy's Puff Daddy, each of whom in 2001 made an appearance on FORTUNE's list of the richest 40 under 40. Along the way, the music influenced everything from advertising to fashion to sports.

The growth spurt was fueled by sensationalism. Tupac Shakur shot at police, was convicted of sexual abuse and ultimately was murdered in Las Vegas. But Shakur both alive and dead has also sold more than 20 million records. Death Row Records, which released much of Shakur's material, was run by ex-con Suge Knight and dogged by rumors of money laundering. But between 1992 and 1998, the label churned out 11 multiplatinum albums. Gangsta rappers reveled in their outlaw mystique, crafting ultra-violent tales of drive-bys and stick-ups designed to shock and enthrall their primary audience--white suburban teenagers. "Hip-hop seemed dangerous; it seemed angry," says Richard Nickels, who manages the hip-hop band the Roots. "Kurt Cobain killed himself, and rock seemed weak. But then you had these black guys who came out and had guns. It was exciting to white kids."

Hip-hop now faces a generation that takes gangsta rap as just another mundane marker in the cultural scenery. "It's collapsing because they can no longer fool the white kids," says Nickels. "There's only so much redundancy anyone can take."

Artists who never jumped on the gangsta bandwagon point the finger at the boardroom. They accuse major labels of strip-mining the music, playing up its sensationalist aspects for easy sales. "In rock you have metal, alternative, emo, soft rock, pop-rock, you have all these different strains," says Q-Tip, front man for the defunct A Tribe Called Quest. "And there are different strains of hip-hop, but record companies aren't set up to sell these different strains. They aren't set up to do anything more of a mature sort of hip-hop."

Of course, gangsta rap isn't a record-company invention. Indeed, hip-hop's two most celebrated icons, Shakur and Notorious B.I.G., embraced the sort of lyrical content that today has opened hip-hop to criticism. And the music companies, under assault from file-sharing and other alternative distribution channels, are hardly in a position to do R&D. "When I first signed to Tommy Boy, [the A&R person] would take us to different shows and to art museums," says Q-Tip. "There was real mentorship. Today that's largely absent, and we see the results in the music and in the aesthetic." That result is a stale product, defined by cable channels like BET, now owned by Viacom, which seems to consist primarily of gun worship and underdressed women.

During the past decade, record labels have outsourced the business of kingmaking to other artists. Established stars Dr. Dre and Eminem brought 50 Cent to Interscope. Jay-Z founded his own label, cut a distribution deal and began developing his own roster. But most established artists do little development. That leaves the possibility that hip-hop is following the same path that soul and R&B traveled when they descended into disco, which died quickly.

No longer able to peddle sensation, rap's moguls are switching tactics. Simmons, while still something of a hip-hop ambassador, is hawking a new self-help book. Master P, whose estimated worth was once $661 million, watched his label, No Limit, sink into bankruptcy. He recently announced the formation of Take a Stand Records, a label catering to "clean" hip-hop music. "Personally, I have profited millions of dollars through explicit rap lyrics," Master P stated on his website. "I can honestly say that I was once part of the problem, and now it's time to be part of the solution."

Chris Lighty, CEO of Violator Entertainment, whose clients include 50 Cent and Busta Rhymes, is looking at ways that record companies can work with artists in one area where rappers have been innovative: endorsement and branding. Whether it's 50 Cent owning a stake in Vitamin Water or Jay-Z doing a commercial for HP, most of these deals have been brokered by the artists' own camp. But Lighty sees in hip-hop a chance for record labels to generate more sponsorship and endorsements. "Record companies are going to have to make even better records and participate in brand extension. It's the only way they can survive," says Lighty. "We need to change the format, and this is the only way. 50 Cent is a brand. Jay-Z is a brand."

But the current hubbub over indecency poses a direct challenge to that brand strength, as the artist Akon recently discovered. While performing in Trinidad, Akon was videotaped dancing suggestively with a fan who was later revealed to be only 14. The video attracted the ire of conservatives like Bill O'Reilly. In the wake of the controversy, Akon's tour sponsor, Verizon, removed all ringtones featuring his work and retracted its sponsorship. The message was clear: Hip-hop needs a new and improved product.

TrickyNicky
08-21-2007, 02:48 PM
What?! But I just got my dad to buy me a Hummer with Dubbs and bullet-proof windows... Aww man.

Crashride
08-21-2007, 02:51 PM
rap sucks

dirk digler
08-21-2007, 02:51 PM
What will MTV play now?

crazycoffey
08-21-2007, 02:52 PM
Is Zach still a mod?

Molitoth
08-21-2007, 02:52 PM
Indeed, that whole genre is complete crap.

Dicky McElephant
08-21-2007, 02:52 PM
This is what happens when you flood the market with crap. Case in point....Hip Hop and Boy Bands.

DMAC
08-21-2007, 02:52 PM
What will MTV play now?
You mean they aren't going to play reality TV anymore?

ChiefsfaninPA
08-21-2007, 02:52 PM
What will MTV play now?


You mean they play stuff? I thought that was so 1980-1999.

Molitoth
08-21-2007, 02:53 PM
What will MTV play now?



hmm, more reality shows about spoiled little rich bitches?

Dicky McElephant
08-21-2007, 02:53 PM
hmm, more reality shows about spoiled little rich bitches?
Gee I can't wait...

Frazod
08-21-2007, 02:54 PM
Anything that helps get that shit out of the mainstream works for me. Hopefully whatever comes next won't suck nearly as much.

dirk digler
08-21-2007, 02:55 PM
You mean they play stuff? I thought that was so 1980-1999.

Pretty much I think that is why they have MTV2 but I don't know I don't watch MTV except for My 16th birthday or whatever show that is.

jidar
08-21-2007, 02:56 PM
heh. panic.

Truthfully I doubt it's so much about the content of the music though. Music sales in general are down all over mostly due to the Internet competing both directly (music piracy) and indirectly (gaming), and of course Hip Hops biggest audience, middle class males, are the ones who are biggest into the online thing.

|Zach|
08-21-2007, 02:58 PM
Is Zach still a mod?
Nope, why?

ChiefsfaninPA
08-21-2007, 02:59 PM
I don't watch MTV except for My 16th birthday or whatever show that is.

I watched that show once and to be honest I turned because I was so pissed it couldn't be healthy. I am usually not the one to care about other people's lifestyles, but to see kids acting out like this and their parents allowing it. Made me sad to be honest. This is the stuff our kids watch and worship.

Brock
08-21-2007, 03:00 PM
The music business' slide into irrelevance continues.

crazycoffey
08-21-2007, 03:00 PM
Nope, why?


I wanted to check before I messed with you.
And-
If you said "yes", I was going to ask you to move this crap to the DC forum.







:p

|Zach|
08-21-2007, 03:01 PM
I will say this for MTV, they don't have enough music and I dislike all of their shows BUT...when they DO play music late at night? The quality of the music is higher than it used to be. In the wee hours of the morning.

Nzoner
08-21-2007, 03:01 PM
Anything that helps get that shit out of the mainstream works for me. Hopefully whatever comes next won't suck nearly as much.

Word :D

StcChief
08-21-2007, 03:01 PM
Indeed, that whole genre is complete crap.
you can't spell it with the Crap infront....

why did it take these foolish White boys to figured it out...

oh right... the ladies like it so they might get laid.

Nzoner
08-21-2007, 03:02 PM
I will say this for MTV, they don't have enough music and I dislike all of their shows BUT...when they DO play music late at night? The quality of the music is higher than it used to be. In the wee hours of the morning.

VH1 Classic

It's a tip

|Zach|
08-21-2007, 03:03 PM
VH1 Classic

It's a tip
I enjoy VH1C

|Zach|
08-21-2007, 03:04 PM
I am surprised this slide didn't happen sooner. It is a really stale genre. Even though there is a lot of quality out there...it is too much of a minority.

dirk digler
08-21-2007, 03:04 PM
I watched that show once and to be honest I turned because I was so pissed it couldn't be healthy. I am usually not the one to care about other people's lifestyles, but to see kids acting out like this and their parents allowing it. Made me sad to be honest. This is the stuff our kids watch and worship.

I know what you mean. I can't say why I watch it and I usually watch it when I am bored to tears.

The kids and the parents though are really ****ing pathetic. I would never let my kid act like that.

tooge
08-21-2007, 03:05 PM
I've been waiting for this trend for 25 years. Great music just doesn't go away. Blues and rock stay and always will. Die rap, die! Go rot with the boy bands.

Micjones
08-21-2007, 03:10 PM
*Yawn*

Welcome to yesterday.
Music sales are down across the board.
Music dispensed by Corporate Radio is disposable.
Turn the radio off and you can find lots of great music being released every day.

Rap and virtually every other genre you can name.

Micjones
08-21-2007, 03:10 PM
I've been waiting for this trend for 25 years. Great music just doesn't go away. Blues and rock stay and always will. Die rap, die! Go rot with the boy bands.

Rap will never die.

cosmo20002
08-21-2007, 03:12 PM
I've been waiting for this trend for 25 years. Great music just doesn't go away. Blues and rock stay and always will. Die rap, die! Go rot with the boy bands.

You all sound like grumpy old men. I'm no big rap fan, but its been stong for 25 years--not exactly a fad like the boy bands that come and go. Your basic rock music is the genre that's dying, unfortunately.

Nzoner
08-21-2007, 03:14 PM
Your basic rock music is the genre that's dying, unfortunately.

I disagree,it's out there you just have to be willing to go look for it because you sure as hell ain't going to hear on your local radio.

KC-TBB
08-21-2007, 03:14 PM
Man what great news...LJ signs, and rap is dying...I'M SMELLING SUPER BOWL BAYYYYBEEE!

DMAC
08-21-2007, 03:14 PM
Your basic rock music is the genre that's dying, unfortunately.I have to disagree there. While it may not be hitting mainstream radio, rock is definately on the rise. Albums are selling more and concerts are selling out.

You just have not heard of them because you let the media tell you what to listen to.

Do a little bit of searching. It's not that hard.

|Zach|
08-21-2007, 03:14 PM
You all sound like grumpy old men. I'm no big rap fan, but its been stong for 25 years--not exactly a fad like the boy bands that come and go. Your basic rock music is the genre that's dying, unfortunately.
Good post. I agree.

I am not sure if Rock is dying but...its certainly changing.

I will save the board my genres are dead rant though. I am a broken record on music threads.

Nzoner
08-21-2007, 03:16 PM
I have to disagree there. While it may not be hitting mainstream radio, rock is definately on the rise. Albums are selling more and concerts are selling out.

You just have not heard of them because you let the media tell you what to listen to.

Do a little bit of searching. It's not that hard.


great minds

|Zach|
08-21-2007, 03:16 PM
Man what great news...LJ signs, and rap is dying...I'M SMELLING SUPER BOWL BAYYYYBEEE!
ROFL

ChiefsfaninPA
08-21-2007, 03:17 PM
I think most music genres are hurting more for the distribution method they employ. While I am sure a lot of the decline in any single genre can be attributed to bad music, I believe this is not the underlying cause.

Donger
08-21-2007, 03:17 PM
Rap will never die.

Do you really think so? In other words, people will still be listening to rap 200 years from now, like Bach or Beethoven today?

Demonpenz
08-21-2007, 03:18 PM
Great nzoner and frazod are going emo

BIG_DADDY
08-21-2007, 03:18 PM
There is very little rap I like but I do like some.

ChiefsfaninPA
08-21-2007, 03:18 PM
Great nzoner and frazod are going emo



ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

Micjones
08-21-2007, 03:19 PM
Do you really think so? In other words, people will still be listening to rap 200 years from now, like Bach or Beethoven today?

I doubt there will be anyone around 200 years from now, but if so... Absolutely.

|Zach|
08-21-2007, 03:20 PM
Do you really think so? In other words, people will still be listening to rap 200 years from now, like Bach or Beethoven today?
I think it is as ingrained in the youth of this country as any other genre. So, if you believe any of the music from today will be listened too 200 years from now...I think some of this has as good of chance.

Donger
08-21-2007, 03:20 PM
I doubt there will be anyone around 200 years from now, but if so... Absolutely.

Why do you think that? What about rap makes you think it will have such longevity?

Micjones
08-21-2007, 03:21 PM
I think most music genres are hurting more for the distribution method they employ. While I am sure a lot of the decline in any single genre can be attributed to bad music, I believe this is not the underlying cause.

I don't think the fact that most Top 40-designated music is disposable is the only factor in play, but perhaps the most significant.

chagrin
08-21-2007, 03:23 PM
Is Zach still a mod?


LMAO

nice

|Zach|
08-21-2007, 03:24 PM
LMAO

nice
:hmmm:

FAX
08-21-2007, 03:24 PM
Can I pull my pants up now?

FAX

Micjones
08-21-2007, 03:26 PM
Why do you think that? What about rap makes you think it will have such longevity?

Rap music has had such a profound effect globally it will never die out.

Demonpenz
08-21-2007, 03:26 PM
if we could have a resurgence of blues. Then we could have some better rock! Keep your power choards off me!

chagrin
08-21-2007, 03:27 PM
:hmmm:

I have to retract that smiley, he was genuinely curious, so nevermind

Kclee
08-21-2007, 03:29 PM
Rap music has had such a profound effect globally it will never die out.


Unless they find a cure for stupid.

Donger
08-21-2007, 03:29 PM
Rap music has had such a profound effect globally it will never die out.

Kind of like Wyld Stallyns?

Nzoner
08-21-2007, 03:30 PM
Rap music has had such a profound effect globally it will never die out.

1 a : having intellectual depth and insight


Yeah it takes a real intellectual to go and put a cap in someone's ass for disrespecting them.

Sorry try again.

KC-TBB
08-21-2007, 03:32 PM
Rap music has had such a profound effect globally it will never die out.

As long as I die...then who cares.

|Zach|
08-21-2007, 03:33 PM
This is a weird conversation...

I don't really follow rap being more influential worldwide...but I have a hard time thinking Rock or some other genre is on some intellectual pedestal rap isn't.

Nzoner
08-21-2007, 03:33 PM
if we could have a resurgence of blues. Then we could have some better rock! Keep your power choards off me!


Dude you need to let me burn you a cd or two,there are some great blues artists out there,unfortunately,there's too damn few people who appreciate it.Take Sunday night at Trails West probably less than a 1000 people to see Jimmy Thackery and he easily blew the entire weekend line-up away.

Demonpenz
08-21-2007, 03:34 PM
1 a : having intellectual depth and insight


Yeah it takes a real intellectual to go and put a cap in someone's ass for disrespecting them.

Sorry try again.


I hear you man. I mean look at johnny cash. He was going to kill his dad for naming him after a woman. This thug music has to stop

Nzoner
08-21-2007, 03:34 PM
This is a weird conversation...

I don't really follow rap being more influential worldwide...but I have a hard time thinking Rock or some other genre is on some intellectual pedestal rap isn't.

Who said it was?

|Zach|
08-21-2007, 03:37 PM
Who said it was?
I would say you...

You threw out intellectual depth and insight and basically wrapped up the genre of rap as not being able to have it.

Should I have taken something else from that post?

Nzoner
08-21-2007, 03:37 PM
I hear you man. I mean look at johnny cash. He was going to kill his dad for naming him after a woman. This thug music has to stop

Point taken smartass :D

Oh and btw what did you think about Neil Young 's posse wanting to take out the Van Zandt's when they wrote a southern man don't need him around anyhow

BigRedChief
08-21-2007, 03:38 PM
Jwhit will be taking credit for this shortly

|Zach|
08-21-2007, 03:39 PM
Jwhit will be taking credit for this shortly
ROFL

Demonpenz
08-21-2007, 03:43 PM
I keep up on the blues here in KC. Although I get much of it off of just looking at the lineups for BB's lawnside barbeque and Knuckleheads. You look at the blues lineups in KC of some of the local bars you get a great idea who is good. It's only later you find out they are actually legendary. I also love the kansas city blues show 101.1 the fox with lindsey shannon on sundays. I wish Kansas city would play up to it's blues roots more.

ZZ top with quiet riot come on

Fruit Ninja
08-21-2007, 03:45 PM
Rap sucks now days. The shit i listened to when i was in high school owned. Brotha Lynch Hung ftw.

Nzoner
08-21-2007, 03:45 PM
I would say you...

You threw out intellectual depth and insight and basically wrapped up the genre of rap as not being able to have it.

Should I have taken something else from that post?


I was trying to say I don't ever recall music artists killing one another over being disrespected in a song except in the rap genre.

I'm not saying there's no talent or intellect in any of the genre that would be foolish,hell I can't rhyme like those guys but I also have a problem when they have to steal music from what I consider classics because they don't have enough creativity to come up with their own sound.

Oh and again that's not the genre AS A WHOLE.

Nzoner
08-21-2007, 03:49 PM
I keep up on the blues here in KC. Although I get much of it off of just looking at the lineups for BB's lawnside barbeque and Knuckleheads. You look at the blues lineups in KC of some of the local bars you get a great idea who is good. It's only later you find out they are actually legendary. I also love the kansas city blues show 101.1 the fox with lindsey shannon on sundays. I wish Kansas city would play up to it's blues roots more.

ZZ top with quiet riot come on


We went to see Watermelon Slim at Knucklehead's,great little spot.

As for ZZ that my first question,who in the hell put this show together?

Donger
08-21-2007, 03:51 PM
Coincidence?

Poll: White youths happier than others (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070821/ap_en_ot/youth_poll_race;_ylt=Ap8yxx5Z6gQRLG9.pQ_ed2Ks0NUE)

Mr. Plow
08-21-2007, 03:54 PM
I just got the new Hammer cd - You Can't Touch This. It rocks.

beach tribe
08-21-2007, 03:57 PM
There's only so many times you can say the same stupid shit.

Fruit Ninja
08-21-2007, 03:59 PM
There's only so many times you can say the same stupid shit.
You can pretty much say that for any kind of music. I guess you have to some how reinvent yourself like other people do. Very few rappers can do it. Beastie Boys are on the top of the list. Hell, their newest album kicks ass and they are in their 40's.

|Zach|
08-21-2007, 04:00 PM
There's only so many times you can say the same stupid shit.
No doubt. Thats why its good to dig for great music in a stale genre.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/CsihHoyqwWY"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/CsihHoyqwWY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

tooge
08-21-2007, 04:04 PM
You all sound like grumpy old men. I'm no big rap fan, but its been stong for 25 years--not exactly a fad like the boy bands that come and go. Your basic rock music is the genre that's dying, unfortunately.

Disagree. I should have said die gangsta rap. No place for it. I'm a guy that likes to party, and whoop it up too, but talking about murder, rape, and devaluing parenthood and marriage is wrong. And people wonder why so many youths (black and white) that follow that culture say "why bother, I probably wont live to be 30 anyhow". As far as rock, turn on 101, 99.7, 98.9,96.5, 105.1,105.5, and you will be able to find plenty of rock, from classic to modern. I actually like some of the rock that is labeled as rap, like kid rock on occasion.

Fruit Ninja
08-21-2007, 04:07 PM
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/z-xS9VRdCJI"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/z-xS9VRdCJI" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>This is the jam right here. Shit i used to listen to when i was in my late teens and early 20's. We used to play basketball with this dudes brother. haha

Micjones
08-21-2007, 04:07 PM
1 a : having intellectual depth and insight


Yeah it takes a real intellectual to go and put a cap in someone's ass for disrespecting them.

Sorry try again.

Such an intellectual way to characterize Rap music. [/sarcasm]

cosmo20002
08-21-2007, 04:07 PM
I have to disagree there. While it may not be hitting mainstream radio, rock is definately on the rise. Albums are selling more and concerts are selling out.

You just have not heard of them because you let the media tell you what to listen to.

Do a little bit of searching. It's not that hard.


If I have to search it out, I think that is a sign of what I am talking about. On the other hand, I can't avoid hip hip/rap and country. As for concerts selling out, that can be a function of playing smaller venues. The top concert draws are mostly older acts that were playing in the 60s and 70s. Few recent rock bands draw can sell out a big arena.

Fish
08-21-2007, 04:08 PM
I keep up on the blues here in KC. Although I get much of it off of just looking at the lineups for BB's lawnside barbeque and Knuckleheads. You look at the blues lineups in KC of some of the local bars you get a great idea who is good. It's only later you find out they are actually legendary. I also love the kansas city blues show 101.1 the fox with lindsey shannon on sundays. I wish Kansas city would play up to it's blues roots more.

ZZ top with quiet riot come on

I've just recently gotten into the Blues scene in KC. Mainly because of BB's BBQ. I've stumbled upon a band or two there that straight knocked my socks off.

And I agree about the Blues show on Sunday nights. I really wish they ran that more than one day a week.

Micjones
08-21-2007, 04:09 PM
Disagree. I should have said die gangsta rap. No place for it. I'm a guy that likes to party, and whoop it up too, but talking about murder, rape, and devaluing parenthood and marriage is wrong. And people wonder why so many youths (black and white) that follow that culture say "why bother, I probably wont live to be 30 anyhow". As far as rock, turn on 101, 99.7, 98.9,96.5, 105.1,105.5, and you will be able to find plenty of rock, from classic to modern. I actually like some of the rock that is labeled as rap, like kid rock on occasion.

There will always be a place for the uglier side of any form of music so long as the prevailing conditions in our society are there to inform them.

When murder goes out of style...
So will music that speaks to those murders.

Baby Lee
08-21-2007, 04:10 PM
It's not a knock on Hip Hop, tastes are cyclical.
The pioneers of a genre are usually the best at it, because it's coming from the heart. Then they run out of steam about the same time 8 bajillion wannabes are streaming in with their dreams of $$, the market gluts with mediocrity and people move on.

Nzoner
08-21-2007, 04:12 PM
Such an intellectual way to characterize Rap music. [/sarcasm]

and you're correct I just sent Zach a pm saying I lumped the genre together when I should have been more specific.

KCChiefsMan
08-21-2007, 04:12 PM
ya rap/hiphop is horrible. It's just whoever can make the most catchiest beat on their computer and the lyrics really don't matter. ex....this is why I'm hot, was a hit. Maybe the dumbest song of all time?

RJ
08-21-2007, 04:12 PM
What will MTV play now?




MTV plays music videos?

KCCHIEFS27
08-21-2007, 04:15 PM
haha, the sales of rap have dropped because it is the most bootlegged genre of music out there. Not only that, but these guys release so many mixtapes nowadays. There is good rap out there, all over the place. MTV Jams is a hiphop video channel.

Micjones
08-21-2007, 04:17 PM
I was trying to say I don't ever recall music artists killing one another over being disrespected in a song except in the rap genre.

Time to pull your card.

Name for me the artist who was killed over a song?

I'm not saying there's no talent or intellect in any of the genre that would be foolish,hell I can't rhyme like those guys but I also have a problem when they have to steal music from what I consider classics because they don't have enough creativity to come up with their own sound.

Sampling didn't even start with Rap music.
So much for good information though.

And there is much more musicality in music sampling than you've given it credit for.

HolmeZz
08-21-2007, 04:18 PM
ya rap/hiphop is horrible. It's just whoever can make the most catchiest beat on their computer and the lyrics really don't matter. ex....this is why I'm hot, was a hit. Maybe the dumbest song of all time?

You're basing the whole genre by some awful mainstream songs(which every type of music is guilty of).

There's very little good music coming out lately from any genre.

Micjones
08-21-2007, 04:19 PM
It's not a knock on Hip Hop, tastes are cyclical.
The pioneers of a genre are usually the best at it, because it's coming from the heart. Then they run out of steam about the same time 8 bajillion wannabes are streaming in with their dreams of $$, the market gluts with mediocrity and people move on.

There are always artists down the line that carry on the spirit of that genre's pioneers.
That's true in any form of music.

Again, turning the radio off is a great place to start.

Simply Red
08-21-2007, 04:19 PM
Time to pull your card.

Name for me the artist who was killed over a song?



Sampling didn't even start with Rap music.
So much for good information though.

And there is much more musicality in music sampling than you've given it credit for.
Okay where did sampling start then?

Reerun_KC
08-21-2007, 04:21 PM
Rock isnt dead... There were over 100K people in the tiny little town of Pryor OK this summer to watch a bunch of 80 Hair Bands...

Micjones
08-21-2007, 04:23 PM
The earliest cases probably predate Rap by a decade or more.

Simply Red
08-21-2007, 04:23 PM
This is a weird conversation...

I don't really follow rap being more influential worldwide...but I have a hard time thinking Rock or some other genre is on some intellectual pedestal rap isn't.
Sure, ever hear of brit-hop?

Simply Red
08-21-2007, 04:24 PM
The earliest cases probably predate Rap by a decade or more.
So say; Herbie Hancock?

Micjones
08-21-2007, 04:26 PM
So say; Herbie Hancock?

I'm not sure about Herbie Hancock and his usage of samples that early, but I know that James Tenney sampled an Elvis record back in the early-60's.

Simply Red
08-21-2007, 04:27 PM
The earliest cases probably predate Rap by a decade or more.
You may be right. I believe Kraftwerk used samples. Rap just perfected them. With Schooly D and other artists & albums like; By all means necessary. etc..

Micjones
08-21-2007, 04:29 PM
True indeed.

Kraftwerk laid the foundation for much of what popular music is today.

Simply Red
08-21-2007, 04:32 PM
True indeed.

Kraftwerk laid the foundation for much of what popular music is today.
They definitely sparked the electronic genre. Now electronica has sub-genres (many.) In fact from 1996-2003 - 140 BPM never saw better days/sales.

KCChiefsMan
08-21-2007, 04:33 PM
You're basing the whole genre by some awful mainstream songs(which every type of music is guilty of).

There's very little good music coming out lately from any genre.

I'm sure there are some good stuff out there, I just haven't heard it because all I hear on the radio is the crap we're talkin about

Micjones
08-21-2007, 04:34 PM
Indeed.

Ciara's last single, "Promise" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=xJssVOz3B_c), was clearly produced with Kraftwerk in mind.

beach tribe
08-21-2007, 04:38 PM
No doubt. Thats why its good to dig for great music in a stale genre.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/CsihHoyqwWY"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/CsihHoyqwWY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
I always thought that most of the best music never made it"mainstream".
One of my favorite things,is finding little known jewels in the music world.
B sides,if you will,of different artists.

tooge
08-21-2007, 04:42 PM
There will always be a place for the uglier side of any form of music so long as the prevailing conditions in our society are there to inform them.

When murder goes out of style...
So will music that speaks to those murders.

that is where I disagree. It is fine for you to like rap and for me to dislike it. That is what is beautiful about music, it appeals to different people differently. However, to say that there "will always be a place" for music that condones "capping someone" for disrespect, killing police, being misogynistic (sp), etc., etc., etc., is wrong, period! There is NO place in any civilized society for that. That is some , not all, but some of what is making our society what is has become. What type of culture would exist if rappers were suggesting that youths respect their elders and police, treated women with respect, stayed in school so they could try to further their education, and championed two parent families and the importance of staying together and getting along to raise children? Wow, what a thought huh? Maybe it wouldn't help, but it sure couldn't hurt once in a while.

Simply Red
08-21-2007, 04:43 PM
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0DLED7krHwU"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0DLED7krHwU" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

Simply Red
08-21-2007, 04:44 PM
that is where I disagree. It is fine for you to like rap and for me to dislike it. That is what is beautiful about music, it appeals to different people differently. However, to say that there "will always be a place" for music that condones "capping someone" for disrespect, killing police, being misogynistic (sp), etc., etc., etc., is wrong, period! There is NO place in any civilized society for that. That is some , not all, but some of what is making our society what is has become. What type of culture would exist if rappers were suggesting that youths respect their elders and police, treated women with respect, stayed in school so they could try to further their education, and championed two parent families and the importance of staying together and getting along to raise children? Wow, what a thought huh? Maybe it wouldn't help, but it sure couldn't hurt once in a while.
BE QUIET THERE IS CHRISTIAN RAP! :)

Micjones
08-21-2007, 04:46 PM
that is where I disagree. It is fine for you to like rap and for me to dislike it. That is what is beautiful about music, it appeals to different people differently. However, to say that there "will always be a place" for music that condones "capping someone" for disrespect, killing police, being misogynistic (sp), etc., etc., etc., is wrong, period! There is NO place in any civilized society for that. That is some , not all, but some of what is making our society what is has become. What type of culture would exist if rappers were suggesting that youths respect their elders and police, treated women with respect, stayed in school so they could try to further their education, and championed two parent families and the importance of staying together and getting along to raise children? Wow, what a thought huh? Maybe it wouldn't help, but it sure couldn't hurt once in a while.

Our society is the one of the most hedonistic, misogynistic and materialistic societies in the free world.

Again, the culture-at-large informs Rap music.
You can't expect music to exist in a vacuum separate from prevailing themes in the larger culture.

I'm no fan of anything that glorifies violence, but I'm smart enough to know that if you're going to go after media that does you had better have more than just Rap music in your sights.

And misogyny predates Rap music by...hell...hundreds of years.

Besides, Rap music encourages everything you championed in your post.
You just don't hear much of it on Corporate Radio. And seeing how you're hopelessly opposed to Rap unfairly you wouldn't dig deep enough to know that a more substantive brand of Rap music exists.

Common sense ought to tell you it does.
Since music overall is really just a reflection of people.

Simply Red
08-21-2007, 04:48 PM
Our society is the one of the most hedonistic, misogynistic and materialistic societies in the free world.

Again, the culture-at-large informs Rap music.
You can't expect music to exist in a vacuum separate from prevailing themes in the larger culture.

I'm no fan of anything that glorifies violence, but I'm smart enough to know that if you're going to go after media that does you had better have more than just Rap music in your sights.

And misogyny predates Rap music by...hell...hundreds of years.
Plus there is always STRYPER.

Simply Red
08-21-2007, 04:50 PM
This is a decent example of tasteful rap IMO:

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/DQFZp6hBhE4"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/DQFZp6hBhE4" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

Micjones
08-21-2007, 04:52 PM
Slum Village...

One of my favorite songs from their sophomore album.

Laying the sarcasm on thick aren't you Red?

Der Flöprer
08-21-2007, 04:53 PM
Our society is the one of the most hedonistic, misogynistic and materialistic societies in the free world.

Again, the culture-at-large informs Rap music.
You can't expect music to exist in a vacuum separate from prevailing themes in the larger culture.

I'm no fan of anything that glorifies violence, but I'm smart enough to know that if you're going to go after media that does you had better have more than just Rap music in your sights.

And misogyny predates Rap music by...hell...hundreds of years.

Besides, Rap music encourages everything you championed in your post.
You just don't hear much of it on Corporate Radio. And seeing how you're hopelessly opposed to Rap unfairly you wouldn't dig deep enough to know that a more substantive brand of Rap music exists.

Common sense ought to tell you it does.
Since music overall is really just a reflection of people.



It's pretty widely known I've never been a huge fan of the genre. That being said, this is a well thought out, accurate post.

Mr. Laz
08-21-2007, 04:53 PM
Rap sucks ........ i hope it dies completely

88TG88
08-21-2007, 04:54 PM
Our society is the one of the most hedonistic, misogynistic and materialistic societies in the free world.

Again, the culture-at-large informs Rap music.
You can't expect music to exist in a vacuum separate from prevailing themes in the larger culture.

I'm no fan of anything that glorifies violence, but I'm smart enough to know that if you're going to go after media that does you had better have more than just Rap music in your sights.

And misogyny predates Rap music by...hell...hundreds of years.

Besides, Rap music encourages everything you championed in your post.
You just don't hear much of it on Corporate Radio. And seeing how you're hopelessly opposed to Rap unfairly you wouldn't dig deep enough to know that a more substantive brand of Rap music exists.

Common sense ought to tell you it does.
Since music overall is really just a reflection of people.
You make it sound like only rappers sing about killing.

Micjones
08-21-2007, 04:54 PM
Thanks MFN.

Adept Havelock
08-21-2007, 04:54 PM
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Micjones
08-21-2007, 04:56 PM
You make it sound like only rappers sing about killing.

Quite the opposite 88.
I could dial up non-Rap artists with lyrics every bit as vile.

Simply Red
08-21-2007, 04:56 PM
Slum Village...

One of my favorite songs from their sophomore album.

Laying the sarcasm on thick aren't you Red?
Not a fan of the new school. But from 1979 - say 2002. I didn't miss much in the non-mainstream eye. I'm like a Home Depot employee... I know a little about a lot. And a lot about...

about...






Well I'm not sure.

Micjones
08-21-2007, 04:57 PM
Understood.

88TG88
08-21-2007, 04:58 PM
Quite the opposite 88.
I could dial up non-Rap artists with lyrics every bit as vile.
whoops quoted the wrong post. I was agreeing with you.

Demonpenz
08-21-2007, 05:06 PM
Something new needs to come out to piss off parents

tooge
08-21-2007, 05:12 PM
Our society is the one of the most hedonistic, misogynistic and materialistic societies in the free world.

Again, the culture-at-large informs Rap music.
You can't expect music to exist in a vacuum separate from prevailing themes in the larger culture.

I'm no fan of anything that glorifies violence, but I'm smart enough to know that if you're going to go after media that does you had better have more than just Rap music in your sights.

And misogyny predates Rap music by...hell...hundreds of years.

Besides, Rap music encourages everything you championed in your post.
You just don't hear much of it on Corporate Radio. And seeing how you're hopelessly opposed to Rap unfairly you wouldn't dig deep enough to know that a more substantive brand of Rap music exists.

Common sense ought to tell you it does.
Since music overall is really just a reflection of people.
Um, OK. NOT. So, I will just simply blame the radio stations and tv that fail to play any of that honorable rap music. I mean, certainly the artists had no choice but to use the phrases mentioned earlier, yeah, society "made" them do it, yeah. I see. So, let me get this right. If murder and rape exist in society, it is Ok for me to go ahead and make music glorifying it ? Look man, I am no fan of the media, but to blame the media for putting out the message is shooting the messenger. If the rappers didn't glorify it, the media would have no choice but to play the responsible rap you mention.

beach tribe
08-21-2007, 05:25 PM
Our society is the one of the most hedonistic, misogynistic and materialistic societies in the free world.

Again, the culture-at-large informs Rap music.
You can't expect music to exist in a vacuum separate from prevailing themes in the larger culture.

I'm no fan of anything that glorifies violence, but I'm smart enough to know that if you're going to go after media that does you had better have more than just Rap music in your sights.

And misogyny predates Rap music by...hell...hundreds of years.

Besides, Rap music encourages everything you championed in your post.
You just don't hear much of it on Corporate Radio. And seeing how you're hopelessly opposed to Rap unfairly you wouldn't dig deep enough to know that a more substantive brand of Rap music exists.

Common sense ought to tell you it does.
Since music overall is really just a reflection of people.
Truth

Demonpenz
08-21-2007, 05:48 PM
We get it beach boys, you like to roll big in your 409 jeez stop talking about your women and your rides already

Rain Man
08-21-2007, 06:23 PM
One advantage of getting older is recognizing that most fads are temporary. I laughed at all the guys who were into cigars a few years ago and claiming that they were here to say. I laugh now at all the poker players, since that's going to be gone in another few years. I initially laughed at rap, but then it kept hanging on and hanging on, and I was starting to worry that it was not a fad. I'm glad to see it fading, though, so I can hopefully listen to real music again when I pull up next to a hoodlum at a stoplight who's blasting his music at full volume to warn people that an idiot is coming their way.

Donger
08-21-2007, 06:28 PM
I'm glad to see it fading, though, so I can hopefully listen to real music again when I pull up next to a hoodlum at a stoplight who's blasting his music at full volume to warn people that an idiot is coming their way.

You're supposed to be impressed, you old fart.

I take pleasure in the knowledge that the little bastards will be virtually deaf when/if they reach my age.

Sully
08-21-2007, 06:29 PM
All I know is Kanye's new song makes me want to wiggle my hips.

Rain Man
08-21-2007, 06:34 PM
You're supposed to be impressed, you old fart.

I take pleasure in the knowledge that the little bastards will be virtually deaf when/if they reach my age.


Really? I figured they were forced to do it by the courts or something, kind of like hanging a bell on a cat's collar.

Simplex3
08-21-2007, 06:36 PM
Anything that helps get that shit out of the mainstream works for me. Hopefully whatever comes next won't suck nearly as much.
It'll be Emo music, which sucks almost as much as rap if not more.

Frazod
08-21-2007, 06:39 PM
Great nzoner and frazod are going emo

Isn't that some sort of ostrich? :spock:

Cochise
08-21-2007, 06:40 PM
It'll be Emo music, which sucks almost as much as rap if not more.

At least rap makes you want to kill other people instead of yourself

Demonpenz
08-21-2007, 06:45 PM
Isn't that some sort of ostrich? :spock:

Yes, with it's hooves painted black

Frazod
08-21-2007, 06:47 PM
Yes, with it's hooves painted black

I think I'll stick with the Eagles, and all the other stuff from the late 70's/early 80's that I happily listen to.

But thanks anyway.

Rain Man
08-21-2007, 06:48 PM
I think I'll stick with the Eagles, and all the other stuff from the late 70's/early 80's that I happily listen to.

But thanks anyway.


Eagles are kind of related to ostriches.

Micjones
08-21-2007, 06:49 PM
Um, OK. NOT. So, I will just simply blame the radio stations and tv that fail to play any of that honorable rap music.

I don't believe I assigned blame to either side.
It's quite obvious that both sides are equally culpable.

I mean, certainly the artists had no choice but to use the phrases mentioned earlier, yeah, society "made" them do it, yeah. I see. So, let me get this right. If murder and rape exist in society, it is Ok for me to go ahead and make music glorifying it?

I'll sit quietly and wait for you to return.

Look man, I am no fan of the media, but to blame the media for putting out the message is shooting the messenger. If the rappers didn't glorify it, the media would have no choice but to play the responsible rap you mention.

You really are all over the place.
My only point from the beginning is that Rap music is informed by the culture at large. The prevailing themes within it are AMERICAN themes.

To expect Rap music to be free from the aforementioned themes is rather...well...ridiculous.

Hollywood and Television perpetuate the same negative imagery...
Why? Because that imagery is ingrained in American culture.

Johnny Cash glorified violence.
Shall we tarnish his legacy as an American icon?

Frazod
08-21-2007, 06:49 PM
Eagles are kind of related to ostriches.

But they're much better flyers.

But not so fast on ground, however.

Simplex3
08-21-2007, 06:50 PM
What type of culture would exist if rappers were suggesting that youths respect their elders and police, treated women with respect, stayed in school so they could try to further their education, and championed two parent families and the importance of staying together and getting along to raise children?
What kind of world would we live in if so called "black leaders" would tell people that they need to study hard and work hard to get ahead instead of blaming other nameless, faceless groups of people?

Frazod
08-21-2007, 06:51 PM
At least rap makes you want to kill other people instead of yourself

Does this mean emo sounds like Nirvana? :shrug:

Simplex3
08-21-2007, 06:51 PM
Our society is the one of the most hedonistic, misogynistic and materialistic societies in the free world.
Unless you need to argue that we're being run by the Christian right, huh?

Micjones
08-21-2007, 06:51 PM
What kind of world would we live in if so called "black leaders" would tell people that they need to study hard and work hard to get ahead instead of blaming other nameless, faceless groups of people?

You too can obtain your degree from the Sean Hannity school of stupidity.

Micjones
08-21-2007, 06:52 PM
One advantage of getting older is recognizing that most fads are temporary. I laughed at all the guys who were into cigars a few years ago and claiming that they were here to say. I laugh now at all the poker players, since that's going to be gone in another few years. I initially laughed at rap, but then it kept hanging on and hanging on, and I was starting to worry that it was not a fad. I'm glad to see it fading, though, so I can hopefully listen to real music again when I pull up next to a hoodlum at a stoplight who's blasting his music at full volume to warn people that an idiot is coming their way.

Don't see those thirty-year old fads often...

Frazod
08-21-2007, 06:53 PM
You too can obtain your degree from the Sean Hannity school of stupidity.

He's got an actual school? Neat. I'll bet the Hannity students beat the crap out of the Colmes students every day during recess. :D

Rain Man
08-21-2007, 06:54 PM
Our society is the one of the most hedonistic, misogynistic and materialistic societies in the free world.


[Clinking of glasses] To America!


I would somewhat argue with the misogynistic part, though.

Micjones
08-21-2007, 06:54 PM
Indeed. Colmes' kids speak softly and drink just one carton of milk during the lunch hour.

stevieray
08-21-2007, 06:54 PM
anger in music is only going to take you so far...it's not self sustaining...

if anyhting, the real talent will rise to the surface bringing the writing back to the music rather than color, violence, etc blahblahblah.


The Blues, Motown, 70's R rand B laid down timeless foundations... a resurgence to singing songs that everyone can relate to is long overdue, IMO.

Simplex3
08-21-2007, 06:54 PM
All I know is Kanye's new song makes me want to wiggle my hips.
Gives you diarrhea too, huh?

Micjones
08-21-2007, 06:55 PM
[Clinking of glasses] To America!


I would somewhat argue with the misogynistic part, though.

6pm is far to early to go on a bender...

Simplex3
08-21-2007, 06:55 PM
I think I'll stick with the Eagles, and all the other stuff from the late 70's/early 80's that I happily listen to.

But thanks anyway.
I don't get how people can listen to the same two decades of music forever. :shrug:

Rain Man
08-21-2007, 06:55 PM
Don't see those thirty-year old fads often...

Yeah, it's fortunate that I'm patient about these things.

I really miss the lunar exploration fad that was around when I was a kid.

Micjones
08-21-2007, 06:56 PM
anger in music is only going to take you so far...it's not self sustaining...

if anyhting, the real talent will rise to the surface bringing the writing back to the music rather color, violence, etc blahblahblah.


The blues, Motown, 70's R rand B laid down timeless foundations... a resurgence to singing songs that everyone can relate to is long overdue, IMO.

Truth. Just don't expect to hear it on Corporate Radio.

Simplex3
08-21-2007, 06:56 PM
You too can obtain your degree from the Sean Hannity school of stupidity.
Keep talking out your ass, it'll serve you well in life.

Micjones
08-21-2007, 06:56 PM
Yeah, it's fortunate that I'm patient about these things.

I really miss the lunar exploration fad that was around when I was a kid.

Just don't hold your breath while you wait...

Rain Man
08-21-2007, 06:57 PM
I don't get how people can listen to the same two decades of music forever. :shrug:

When people like frazod and I listen to the Eagles, it's almost as if we have hair again. That's powerful.

Simplex3
08-21-2007, 06:57 PM
Indeed. Colmes' kids speak softly and drink just one carton of milk during the lunch hour.
A carton of milk which was stolen from the Hannity kid by the principal.

Micjones
08-21-2007, 06:57 PM
Keep talking out your ass, it'll serve you well in life.

Blissful ignorance has obviously served you well.

Frazod
08-21-2007, 06:58 PM
I don't get how people can listen to the same two decades of music forever. :shrug:

Well, I'd rather listen to stuff that's good repeatedly than listen to stuff that sucks f#cking ass even once.

I've got nearly 1,000 songs on my ipod - it's not like I just listen to Eagles Greatest Hits over and over again.

Simplex3
08-21-2007, 06:59 PM
Blissful ignorance has obviously served you well.
The only cure to racism is ignoring race. The less kids think about it the more adults thrust it in their face. It's almost like the race pimps don't want it to go away. Weird, huh? I mean, just because they're making a living off of it...

stevieray
08-21-2007, 06:59 PM
Truth. Just don't expect to hear it on Corporate Radio.

not when every radio station is owned by four entities...pennies on the pound...

it sucks...

Simplex3
08-21-2007, 07:02 PM
Well, I'd rather listen to stuff that's good repeatedly than listen to stuff that sucks f#cking ass even once.

I've got nearly 1,000 songs on my ipod - it's not like I just listen to Eagles Greatest Hits over and over again.
You have to dig through mud to find diamonds, I'll agree. Maybe at your age it's just too hard to put in the effort.

:evil:

Frazod
08-21-2007, 07:03 PM
You have to dig through mud to find diamonds, I'll agree. Maybe at your age it's just too hard to put in the effort.

:evil:

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up.

But still nlm

Simplex3
08-21-2007, 07:04 PM
Any bets on how many posts it will take Micjones to go from the "You're a Republican" slam all the way to invoking Godwin's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law)?

Ari Chi3fs
08-21-2007, 07:04 PM
I lost interest when everyone started to wear Grillz.

I can't understand mumbled ebonics.

http://www.swishahouse.biz/images/news/20/grillz_detail.jpg

FAX
08-21-2007, 07:24 PM
Who Will Cap The Bitches?

Who will cap the bitches now that rap is dead?
Who will hit the slangin' dank or soundboy in the head?
Who will wear the Rollies and who will show the bling?
Who will bust a street cop and pull a Rodney King?

There will be no pimp juice, no more gat patrol,
No more fine dime brizzles or peelers in the hole.
We'll have to live like cave boys instead of like the crips,
We'll have to step off forty duece with khakis on our hips.

Who will to get their swerve on, who will make the flicc?
Who'll be watching andy while we flunk it with our dick?
I guess we'll do the hustle game like white meat in the bed,
And wiggas will have to cap the bitches now that rap is dead.

FAX

Fat Elvis
08-21-2007, 07:27 PM
When people like frazod and I listen to the Eagles, it's almost as if we have hair again. That's powerful.


Desperado

Simplex3
08-21-2007, 07:28 PM
Who Will Cap The Bitches?

Who will cap the bitches now that rap is dead?
Who will hit the slangin' dank or soundboy in the head?
Who will wear the Rollies and who will show the bling?
Who will bust a street cop and pull a Rodney King?

There will be no pimp juice, no more gat patrol,
No more fine dime brizzles or peelers in the hole.
We'll have to live like cave boys instead of like the crips,
We'll have to step off forty duece with khakis on our hips.

Who will to get their swerve on, who will make the flicc?
Who'll be watching andy while we flunk it with our dick?
I guess we'll do the hustle game like white meat in the bed,
And wiggas will have to cap the bitches now that rap is dead.

FAX
LMAO

You should put a Paypal link in your sig. Stuff like that is golden.

pikesome
08-21-2007, 07:48 PM
You have to dig through mud to find diamonds, I'll agree. Maybe at your age it's just too hard to put in the effort.

:evil:

This isn't far from the truth for me. Life is full of responsibilities now I didn't have at 18. My budget for entertainment is more limited too (although sometimes that's because I have more expensive toys now).

Fairplay
08-21-2007, 07:59 PM
Order your food at Mickey D's like this next time you go.
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WT7vBoKlkIo"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WT7vBoKlkIo" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

Micjones
08-21-2007, 08:00 PM
The only cure to racism is ignoring race.

Color-blind philosophies don't address pre-existing inequities that still have residual effects today.

Accepting and appreciating our differences is an even better solution.

It's almost like the race pimps don't want it to go away. Weird, huh? I mean, just because they're making a living off of it...

It doesn't pay to decry the evils of racism.
There are quicker and easier ways to get rich. Trust me.

People want to believe racism ended in the late 1860's. It didn't.

Micjones
08-21-2007, 08:02 PM
Any bets on how many posts it will take Micjones to go from the "You're a Republican" slam all the way to invoking Godwin's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law)?

I'd rather take the bet that you're not a comedian by trade...

elvomito
08-21-2007, 08:03 PM
around 99/2000, bootlegging began increasing so much that rap music had to appeal to a larger audience to gain sales. the major labels started creating rap music that appealed to the millions of high school white kids who still spent parents' money on store-bought CDs, helping fuel their desire to rebel.

7 years later, we are left with 99.9% total garbage. anything of quality can't make it to radio because it doesn't have a commercial appeal. you have trash with simplistic catchy choruses and no content whatsoever, but demand for trash is high for some reason.
it didn't help that in the wake of the 2pac/biggie deaths, hundreds of fake gayngsters were ushered into the studio to create copycat sounds and propagate the mindless bullshit.

for anything good to happen in rap, commercial rap and the record companies responsible for its creation have to die completely and the standards must be increased. it won't happen, so, buh bye

Nzoner
08-21-2007, 08:10 PM
Time to pull your card.

Name for me the artist who was killed over a song?



Allow me to say I was wrong in that he was killed but I wasn't that far off,oh and what a great name for a record lable Murder Inc.

Rap star marked for murder over lyrics
By David Teather in New York
September 10, 2005


US investigators claim to have found evidence of an assassination plot against 50 Cent, America's biggest-selling music artist, hatched by a convicted drugs trader in revenge for some of the rapper's lyrics.

Court documents emerged this week that show federal investigators believed there was a possible conspiracy between the New York drug lord Kevin "Supreme" McGriff and some employees of the music label Murder Inc to kill the rapper.

The star, whose real name is Curtis Jackson, survived nine gunshots in May 2000, but refused to co-operate with police.

The investigators also examined whether the 2002 killing of Jam Master Jay, of Run DMC, was connected to the alleged feud between 50 Cent and McGriff.

An affidavit from Francis Mace, a special agent assigned to the US treasury department, discloses that law enforcement officials believe that the shooting in 2000 was in retaliation for the lyrics of the song Ghetto Koran. The song detailed the history of the Supreme Team, McGriff's gang. Mr Mace said he believed there was an "ongoing plot" to kill 50 Cent and that McGriff was kept in touch with the singer's whereabouts via paged conversations with Murder Inc employees.
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The document was written in 2003 and filed under an application to search Murder Inc's Manhattan offices. The previously sealed search warrant was contained in a motion filed last week for Murder Inc's founder, Irving Lorenzo, who is charged with laundering more than $US1 million ($1.3 million) of McGriff's drug money.

Jackson was raised in a rough part of the Bronx and orphaned at eight. He was selling crack on the streets by the time he was 12. But he went on to huge success. After signing with Eminem's record label, Shady Records, his debut album sold more than 10 million copies. His latest album sold a million in four days.

A lawyer for McGriff said he was aware of the affidavit but the allegations had vanished in subsequent government documents.

McGriff, 45, was freed from jail in 1995 after eight years, and prosecutors allege he immediately re-formed his gang. He is at present serving a 37-month sentence for gun possession.

Micjones
08-21-2007, 08:19 PM
There is absolutely violent culture surrounding certain people with vested interest in Rap music.

I won't deny that.

The music often has little do with it though.
It's not the underlying cause.

Even in the situation with "Supreme".
He was merely a financier of a label. Never actually a Rap artist or producer of that particular form of music.

50 Cent was indeed shot nearly a dozen times, but again that situation had nothing at all to do with Rap music itself.

Nzoner
08-21-2007, 08:34 PM
There is absolutely violent culture surrounding certain people with vested interest in Rap music.

I won't deny that.

The music often has little do with it though.
It's not the underlying cause.

Even in the situation with "Supreme".
He was merely a financier of a label. Never actually a Rap artist or producer of that particular form of music.

50 Cent was indeed shot nearly a dozen times, but again that situation had nothing at all to do with Rap music itself.

No,the underlying cause which could also be said about sports superstars etc. is that we live in a society that idolizes fame and fortune and has no morals on what it takes to get there.

I have a friend(white)who makes great money and his teenage son wants to be a rapper and seriously he's not half bad.The kid is an average B student and yet writes gangsta type lyrics about capping mother f'ers etc. and even goes so far in one song to call out some gang.

Like I told my friend,his son has talent but coming from the upper middle class background he does and writing such stuff can only lead to major problems in the future imo(if he indeed does make it.)I'd have to think at least the kids in the hood who make it and write such stuff know that there could be consequences involved to whereas my friends kid thinks it's all just a big game.

Lastly let me clarify I'm not anyone's judge,I just don't agree with some of the lyrics and that's okay it'd be a pretty damn boring world if we all liked the same thing.So we'll agree to disagree and still get along.

elvomito
08-21-2007, 08:46 PM
50 and supreme were competing crack sellers, and rivals. they disliked each other way before music became involved. the song did push the situation to violence. later, 50 even made fun about their hitman, how he's a hired "leg shooter" or somethin like that... since all he could hit was mostly his leg

The kid is an average B student and yet writes gangsta type lyrics about capping mother f'ers etc. and even goes so far in one song to call out some gang.more fake shit. why can't he write about shit he actually does/lives(like gettin BJs afer school)? somethin creative for a change.

DJJasonp
08-21-2007, 08:53 PM
Maybe already mentioned....but I think it's more about the fact that there is a ton of shite hip hop records/artists out there right now.

It's a watered-down genre right now with a bunch of copy-cat artists throwing out shite records.

The late 80's with NWA, Public Enemy, etc....and then again in the late 90's with Dre, Snoop, Jay Z, was the best of times for hip hop/rap.

Just my 2 cents...

elvomito
08-21-2007, 08:55 PM
Maybe already mentioned....but I think it's more about the fact that there is a ton of shite hip hop records/artists out there right now.

It's a watered-down genre right now with a bunch of copy-cat artists throwing out shite records.

The late 80's with NWA, Public Enemy, etc....and then again in the late 90's with Dre, Snoop, Jay Z, was the best of times for hip hop/rap.

Just my 2 cents...yeah whaddayou know? you're british

Nzoner
08-21-2007, 09:01 PM
more fake shit. why can't he write about shit he actually does/lives(like gettin BJs afer school)? somethin creative for a change.


We definitely agree there

munkey
08-21-2007, 09:42 PM
You can pretty much say that for any kind of music. I guess you have to some how reinvent yourself like other people do. Very few rappers can do it.

Your right...They just sample shit I listened to as a kid and call it their own...

That's what I hate about rap.

munkey
08-21-2007, 09:51 PM
Johnny Cash glorified violence.
Shall we tarnish his legacy as an American icon?


Cash had more talent in his left toe nail then 90% of the rappers/pop producers out there today...

I'm not defending JC...I personally don't like his music but respect the fact he wrote it and played it himself.

Demonpenz
08-21-2007, 10:09 PM
Cash had more talent in his left toe nail then 90% of the rappers/pop producers out there today...

I'm not defending JC...I personally don't like his music but respect the fact he wrote it and played it himself.


Like nin inch nails hurt?