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Count Alex's Losses
08-24-2007, 12:58 AM
Croyle Under Fire (http://chiefs.scout.com/2/671604.html)

The primary question before Kansas City’s game against New Orleans was whether or not second-year quarterback Brodie Croyle could do enough to win the starting job. His final line last night: five completions, 17 attempts, 45 yards, one interception. Croyle’s quarterback rating was 15.1. Did he do enough to win the job?

Most definitely.

But head coach Herm Edwards said he wasn’t prepared to name a starting quarterback.

“He struggled some, but he didn’t get any help either,” said Edwards. “He can’t catch the ball; he can’t block. That’s not all on the quarterback.”

It wasn’t pretty to look at and, at times, it was downright unwatchable. Thursday’s game wasn’t the sort of performance that made you feel great about the how the offense is going to look a month from now. It was a quiet, no-frills evening with some savvy plays in the face of pressure, bad execution and a stadium full of impatient fans.

It was one of those nights where the box score told the story of the game, but didn’t reveal the characters.

Did Croyle play a perfect game? Not at all. The Chiefs struggled moving the ball all game. The offensive linemen struggled to protect Croyle and were put in a position where they had to abandon the running game. In key situations, without a running game to account for, the Saints just brought more and more pressure, and pretty soon were blitzing guys from all over the place. At the end of the night, Croyle had been sacked twice.

“I’m frustrated,” said Croyle. “I thought I’d have a good showing tonight and I didn’t. It went from bad to worse.”

In the face of that pressure, the offensive line let Croyle down. The young quarterback had defenders in his face most of the time, affecting his decision-making and his ability to get the ball out to the receivers, but he still managed to make good, snap decisions under duress. The pass to wide receiver Dwayne Bowe in the second quarter was a play where Croyle had to decide where to send the ball quickly. He threw a sharp, catchable ball with the defensive line bearing down on him.

Of course, great decisions can be negated if the receivers drop passes, and that’s what happened to Croyle several times last night. Just about every guy let him down at some point, and that’s got to be fixed. None of the dropped passes were especially difficult catches. They were catches you’d expect an NFL guy to make. The receivers just didn’t concentrate.

Despite the bad line and receiver play, there’s still plenty of work for Croyle to do. He’s got to play better if the Chiefs are going to be successful this season. So far, Croyle’s turned over the ball in every preseason game, and regardless of what the rest of the offense does, he can’t do that. It hasn’t even been so much the turnovers themselves, as the timing. It seems that every time he turns the ball over, it’s in the middle of a great drive, or after KC’s defense generates a turnover. Those kind of plays lose ball games in a hurry.

But in the end, with all the pressure the Saints generated, and with little help, the Chiefs and Croyle could have turned the ball over three or four times, easily. It wasn't an enjoyable night, but it could have been much worse.

Even with his struggles, Croyle’s done enough to win the job. Sure, he’s a young player and he’s going to have some growing pains, but he’s shown he can make the plays to win a game, and like tonight, he can keep the wheels from falling off. Sometimes, that’s all a team needs to keep things on track.

Ebolapox
08-24-2007, 01:12 AM
aside from the crappy title, good article.

GarySpFc
08-24-2007, 05:27 AM
Croyle Under Fire (http://chiefs.scout.com/2/671604.html)

The primary question before Kansas City’s game against New Orleans was whether or not second-year quarterback Brodie Croyle could do enough to win the starting job. His final line last night: five completions, 17 attempts, 45 yards, one interception. Croyle’s quarterback rating was 15.1. Did he do enough to win the job?

Most definitely.

I'm a Brodie Croyle fan, but I am going to have to disagree. I don't believe he won the job last night. That said, Len Dawson was timing the pass rushes, and said Brees had 4 seconds in the pocket, which is not enough. The Chiefs were only providing Brodie with 2 seconds. Heck, even Joe Montana couldn't complete passes with that little time.

cookster50
08-24-2007, 06:40 AM
I think we watched two different games.

Bob Dole
08-24-2007, 07:17 AM
I think we watched two different games.

The offensive line knew how to block and the receivers knew how to catch in the version you watched?

TEX
08-24-2007, 07:26 AM
Croyle’s quarterback rating was 15.1. Did he do enough to win the job?

Most definitely.

What? ROFL



Your next title should be : The Emperor Has No Clothes.

dirk digler
08-24-2007, 07:29 AM
Sorry gochiefs your an idiot if you believe Croyle won anything last night.

He was absolutely horrible along with the rest of the shit pile offense.

Bob Dole
08-24-2007, 07:38 AM
[B]Your next title should be : The Emperor Has No Clothes.
We all know he has clothes, because you can see Carl's belt even in head shots.

cookster50
08-24-2007, 07:40 AM
The offensive line knew how to block and the receivers knew how to catch in the version you watched?
No, but Croyle looked horrible in the game I watched. Apparently the one GoChiefs watched it was everybody elses fault. Not to say the OL did good or the WR looked good, but you can't excuse everything.

HonestChieffan
08-24-2007, 07:40 AM
Hard to find any bright spots ...

kc1977
08-24-2007, 07:42 AM
With this offensive line, playing Brodie this year could ruin him. Tough call.

kepp
08-24-2007, 07:45 AM
I've seen flashes from Croyle every game so far. Probably my favorite play from him in the Saints game was in the 3rd quarter (I think). He was getting pressure from two, maybe three guys. He dodged the one coming around the end and, with another right in his face, threw an accurate bullet to the RB. He stood in the pocket - he didn't try to force it downfield - he used his check down receiver. I did get the distinct feeling that he was trying TOO hard to not be a "gunslinger" however. Most of his throws didn't seem to have as much zip.

I think Svitek is getting very valuable experience this preseason with the people he's faced so far - Wimbley, Will Smith, etc. He's improving. Chris Terry on the other hand...:shake:

Just my $0.02

TEX
08-24-2007, 08:00 AM
We all know he has clothes, because you can see Carl's belt even in head shots.


:clap:

PhillyChiefFan
08-24-2007, 08:10 AM
At least we stand a good chance of picking up Jake Long next year :)

HonestChieffan
08-24-2007, 08:27 AM
His wife is still cute as hell.

bringbackmarty
08-24-2007, 08:29 AM
herm should just put colquitt back there on second down.

FringeNC
08-24-2007, 08:33 AM
Croyle gets an incomplete last night. The pass protection was a joke.

LanceHunter
08-24-2007, 08:37 AM
Not to forget, the Chiefs just played proabably the best team in the NFC, and didn't have LJ in the backfield. Another historical tidbit, when Manning started for the Colts in 1998, they went 3-13 and he threw 28 interceptions, and Marshall Faulk was named to the Pro Bowl. We could well end up with an 8-8 record which is respectable for a team thats rebuilding.
I have more doubts about Edwards and Solari's coaching abilities, than the players at this point. How did Solari go from defensive coordinator at KU to offensive coordinator in the NFL?

chop
08-24-2007, 08:44 AM
I recorded the game and watched part of the first half this morning. Tha game I watched was Croyle getting pressured because the line was not blocking all that well for him and the receivers dropped too many balls. He made a couple of bad throws but most qb's do that also. While I will not say he looked great out there, I will say he wasn't terrible either. I'm behind Croyle for the starting spot this year.

ChiefsFan4Life
08-24-2007, 08:44 AM
This was one of the dumbest articles I've ever read in my life - terrible

DenverChief
08-24-2007, 08:46 AM
I recorded the game and watched part of the first half this morning. Tha game I watched was Croyle getting pressured because the line was not blocking all that well for him and the receivers dropped too many balls. He made a couple of bad throws but most qb's do that also. While I will not say he looked great out there, I will say he wasn't terrible either. I'm behind Croyle for the starting spot this year.


thank you

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 09:01 AM
I'm a Brodie Croyle fan, but I am going to have to disagree. I don't believe he won the job last night. That said, Len Dawson was timing the pass rushes, and said Brees had 4 seconds in the pocket, which is not enough. The Chiefs were only providing Brodie with 2 seconds. Heck, even Joe Montana couldn't complete passes with that little time.

He won the job at the beginning of March when Damon Huard agreed to be the backup.

To be technically correct, Croyle didn't LOSE the job last night.

shrek6849
08-24-2007, 09:02 AM
How's the biggest Croyle homer on the board doing? In mourning today?

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 09:04 AM
How's the biggest Croyle homer on the board doing? In mourning today?

ROFL

He'll be just fine. Enjoy it while you can.

shrek6849
08-24-2007, 09:05 AM
ROFL

He'll be just fine. Enjoy it while you can.

I guess I'll take your word. I haven't seen a starting QB struggle this bad in the preseason in quite some time. Maybe ever.

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 09:06 AM
What pisses me off is Downfield Big Game is getting a free pass here because he has sand in his vagina...

IF Huard really wanted this starting position he would suck up his weak ass calf pull and get his ass out there and play...

Your title should read, "How Disappointed we are in DownField Big Game Huard for not playing"

Here was his chance to be superman, but instead he is on the sideline with a pile of sand between his legs....

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 09:07 AM
I guess I'll take your word. I haven't seen a starting QB struggle this bad in the preseason in quite some time. Maybe ever.

Understandable, considering you're about 12 I'm guessing.

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 09:07 AM
I guess I'll take your word. I haven't seen a starting QB struggle this bad in the preseason in quite some time. Maybe ever.


Guess you dont watch much football do you?

Please try some intelligence before you post... Your quickly surpassing the "Your and Idoit" status....

terrysheafanclub
08-24-2007, 09:09 AM
This is what KC wanted, ran trent green out of town and kept the young gun slinger. Huard is by far the best qb in KC and should be starting no matter what happens in the preseason. Huard proved himself last year, i think most of you forgot about the 11 or so weeks he basically led the league in qb rating.

shrek6849
08-24-2007, 09:09 AM
Show me a starting QB who played three quarters in a preseason game and compiled a QB rating less than 15.

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 09:12 AM
This is what KC wanted, ran trent green out of town and kept the young gun slinger. Huard is by far the best qb in KC and should be starting no matter what happens in the preseason. Huard proved himself last year, i think most of you forgot about the 11 or so weeks he basically led the league in qb rating.


yet he is standing on the sidelines with a calf pull...


Please, If you want Huard to lead this team.. Tell him to suck it up and be a man..

All I remember from last year is the Pittsburg and Miami game... Huard displayed enough in those to tell everyone looking for a starter last year that he is a backup.

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 09:13 AM
This is what KC wanted, ran trent green out of town and kept the young gun slinger. Huard is by far the best qb in KC and should be starting no matter what happens in the preseason. Huard proved himself last year, i think most of you forgot about the 11 or so weeks he basically led the league in qb rating.

Why shouldn't we forget about it?

DAMON HUARD brushed it aside when he signed a backup's contract 2 days before free agency even STARTED.

terrysheafanclub
08-24-2007, 09:17 AM
Miami and Pittsburgh game? Ummm, both road games in two very difficult places to play. (miami=hot and humid and pitt=was crazy, i was there) It actually doesnt matter who starts the season bc they arent going to finish the season by looks of the offensive line's blocking performance. BTW Huard signed that contract while trent green was still there. Meaning, kc couldnt afford to have two starting qb salaries.

shrek6849
08-24-2007, 09:18 AM
Anybody look up those QB stats yet? htismaqe? I'll be waiting.

Hoover
08-24-2007, 09:19 AM
I'm not going to give up on Croyle, but last nights game made it clear to be that Haurd should probably be the starter. Croyle just needs to keep working on stuff and I'm sure he will get his shot, heck its probably still this season but I think we owe it to the rest of the team and the Chiefs fans to put Haurd out there and see what we can do.

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 09:21 AM
Miami and Pittsburgh game? Ummm, both road games in two very difficult places to play. (miami=hot and humid and pitt=was crazy, i was there) It actually doesnt matter who starts the season bc they arent going to finish the season by looks of the offensive line's blocking performance. BTW Huard signed that contract while trent green was still there. Meaning, kc couldnt afford to have two starting qb salaries.


Why didnt Downfield Big Game test the FA market?

No excuse Huard is a seasoned vet now.. 10+ seasons in the league... he should be used to those places... Excuses for Downfield Big Game when you lead the league for 5 weeks in passer rating and fumbles?

shrek6849
08-24-2007, 09:21 AM
You think running the mediocrity treadmill is bad? Croyle could make you long for those days. The days of vanilla defenses are about to be over. Yikes.

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 09:22 AM
I'm not going to give up on Croyle, but last nights game made it clear to be that Haurd should probably be the starter. Croyle just needs to keep working on stuff and I'm sure he will get his shot, heck its probably still this season but I think we owe it to the rest of the team and the Chiefs fans to put Haurd out there and see what we can do.


Which is what?


The dude cant even play, he has a bobo on his calf right now...

terrysheafanclub
08-24-2007, 09:22 AM
I'm not going to give up on Croyle, but last nights game made it clear to be that Haurd should probably be the starter. Croyle just needs to keep working on stuff and I'm sure he will get his shot, heck its probably still this season but I think we owe it to the rest of the team and the Chiefs fans to put Haurd out there and see what we can do.

EXACTLY. At least Huard can somewhat protect himself with his past game experience by calling out some pre-snap blitz reads and actually telling his o-line who to block so he doesnt end up without a head.

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 09:23 AM
EXACTLY. At least Huard can somewhat protect himself with his past game experience by calling out some pre-snap blitz reads and actually telling his o-line who to block so he doesnt end up without a head.

Yeah, let's go 8-8!

AGAIN.

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 09:24 AM
You think running the mediocrity treadmill is bad? Croyle could make you long for those days. The days of vanilla defenses are about to be over. Yikes.

COULD.

COULD.

Could make us long for those days.

It's a risk worth taking.

As you like to say, you've seen 2 championships in your lifetime. WE, on the other hand, haven't won a playoff game since before you started watching football...

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 09:25 AM
You think running the mediocrity treadmill is bad? Croyle could make you long for those days. The days of vanilla defenses are about to be over. Yikes.

Acutally it is called HOPE, Croyle gives us HOPE for the Future...

Huard gives us nothing for the future...

People in KC are scared, scared to develop a QB.. Carl has them so brainwashed, that if he fields and 7-9 - 10-6 type team and gets bitched slapped every year in the playoffs.. Chiefs fans will open the wallets with glee....

KC Celebrates this crap like other teams celebrate superbowl wins...

terrysheafanclub
08-24-2007, 09:25 AM
Thats a good question about Huard not testing the FA market. I dont know why he didnt. Maybe he saw that trent was going to be traded or released and huard thought he would be starter and didnt see the point of leaving an offense that he is comfortable with.

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 09:26 AM
EXACTLY. At least Huard can somewhat protect himself with his past game experience by calling out some pre-snap blitz reads and actually telling his o-line who to block so he doesnt end up without a head.


ROFL...

yet Huard is less mobile and is taking stupid sacks in preseason? Your kidding right?

ROFL.... Carl is that you?

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 09:27 AM
Thats a good question about Huard not testing the FA market. I dont know why he didnt. Maybe he saw that trent was going to be traded or released and huard thought he would be starter and didnt see the point of leaving an offense that he is comfortable with.


Not really, After the playoffs Herm made it clear that they needed to get Brodie ready....

Huard didnt risk losing money from the chiefs by testing the market. The only value Downfield Big Game had was resigning with the chiefs for backup money.

Chief Faithful
08-24-2007, 09:27 AM
Show me a starting QB who played three quarters in a preseason game and compiled a QB rating less than 15.
We saw Plummer do it in a regular season game last year.

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 09:27 AM
Acutally it is called HOPE, Croyle gives us HOPE for the Future...

Huard gives us nothing for the future...

People in KC are scared, scared to develop a QB.. Carl has them so brainwashed, that if he fields and 7-9 - 10-6 type team and gets bitched slapped every year in the playoffs.. Chiefs fans will open the wallets with glee....

KC Celebrates this crap like other teams celebrate superbowl wins...

:clap: :clap: :clap:

shrek6849
08-24-2007, 09:28 AM
We saw Plummer do it in a regular season game last year.

Speaking of that, I'm not so sure he retired. :hmmm:

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 09:30 AM
so....

when are they going to name Damon the starting QB?

Just wondering.

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 09:31 AM
Speaking of that, I'm not so sure he retired. :hmmm:

Unfortunately, right now, Plummer is the guy Croyle reminds me of.

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 09:31 AM
so....

when are they going to name Damon the starting QB?

Just wondering.

ROFL

terrysheafanclub
08-24-2007, 09:31 AM
All i know is that the chiefs are screwed and turned alot of players off by the way they treated trent. He's in Miami, with us now and the chiefs/fans are going to go through a depression. Get ready to BOOOOOOO and drink heavily bc there isnt going to be much singing to the opposition of "we're going to beat the hell out of you, you, you, you you you." That song will be directed towards the Home Team's sideline.

PEACE

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 09:31 AM
so....

when are they going to name Damon the starting QB?

Just wondering.


Most likely wont happen.... Just have a feeling that his injury wont help the Chiefs much if he cant run a simple roll out pass....

Have you noticed that they dont even try those with DownField Big Game? Why not?

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 09:32 AM
He won the job at the beginning of March when Damon Huard agreed to be the backup.

To be technically correct, Croyle didn't LOSE the job last night.
You know...

Suddenly I have a STRONG feeling Huard will be named the starter.

In which case, I will LOL @ you while you backtrack and make excuse after excuse and cite posts where you claimed you never said Croyle would be the starter...

shrek6849
08-24-2007, 09:33 AM
Unfortunately, right now, Plummer is the guy Croyle reminds me of.

Well, in fairness, Croyle isn't a 10 year vet. :(

Chief Faithful
08-24-2007, 09:34 AM
You think running the mediocrity treadmill is bad? Croyle could make you long for those days. The days of vanilla defenses are about to be over. Yikes.

What has got to suck for you is the Donk starters looked even worse against the Girls. Chiefs may have run a vanilla defense in a preseason game, but the Donks ran no defense.

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 09:34 AM
Why didnt Downfield Big Game test the FA market?

No excuse Huard is a seasoned vet now.. 10+ seasons in the league... he should be used to those places... Excuses for Downfield Big Game when you lead the league for 5 weeks in passer rating and fumbles?
Why didn't LJ holdout for more money?! He caved...

Maybe Huard liked it in KC...

7.5 million over three years isn't chump change...call it a backup QB contract if you'd like, but maybe he was content and felt as if that was good enough and liked his current situation in KC? Ever think of that?

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 09:35 AM
All i know is that the chiefs are screwed and turned alot of players off by the way they treated trent. He's in Miami, with us now and the chiefs/fans are going to go through a depression. Get ready to BOOOOOOO and drink heavily bc there isnt going to be much singing to the opposition of "we're going to beat the hell out of you, you, you, you you you." That song will be directed towards the Home Team's sideline.

PEACE


Dude we all know it.. It is called rebuilding and getting younger... It is going to suck and the bandwagon will be empty...

But you know what? This is the first time in 18+ years that the Chiefs have totally gutted the roster and started over... I am more excited about the next 3 years then I have been in years of watching the Chiefs.

Croyle, Bowe, Pollard, Page, Allen, the list goes on...

Plus this is the first time we have actually tried to do something every other team in the NFL has done.. And that is develop a QB...

Right now the thought of Croyle starting has Carl and many of the Chiefs fans sucking their thumbs and crying in the corner... Why? Because they are scared to actually try and build a championship team...

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 09:35 AM
Yeah, let's go 8-8!

AGAIN.
Better yet, let's throw Croyle in there and RUIN him and draft a QB in next year's draft!

Yeah!

Awesome!!!

Great idea!

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 09:36 AM
Acutally it is called HOPE, Croyle gives us HOPE for the Future...

Huard gives us nothing for the future...

People in KC are scared, scared to develop a QB.. Carl has them so brainwashed, that if he fields and 7-9 - 10-6 type team and gets bitched slapped every year in the playoffs.. Chiefs fans will open the wallets with glee....

KC Celebrates this crap like other teams celebrate superbowl wins...
Waiting two years to be a starter sure ruined Philip Rivers' career.

shrek6849
08-24-2007, 09:37 AM
What has got to suck for you is the Donk starters looked even worse against the Girls. Chiefs may have run a vanilla defense in a preseason game, but the Donks ran no defense.

I watched both games, and I think that it's debatable. Both teams looked bad though, no doubt about it.

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 09:38 AM
Most likely wont happen.... Just have a feeling that his injury wont help the Chiefs much if he cant run a simple roll out pass....

Have you noticed that they dont even try those with DownField Big Game? Why not?
With the way Croyle is playing, I'd rather them not call a simple roll out pass...

Let's just run the ball and be content with punting and seeing if our defense can score points...

That's our best chance if the poor man's Rex Grossman is our starting QB.

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 09:38 AM
Why didn't LJ holdout for more money?! He caved...

Maybe Huard liked it in KC...

7.5 million over three years isn't chump change...call it a backup QB contract if you'd like, but maybe he was content and felt as if that was good enough and liked his current situation in KC? Ever think of that?


Nope because Huard should of tested the market and went to a place where he would of been guaranteed the starter. Huard still isnt the starter here yet... Why have competition when you could be the starter else where...


What is a shame is that a 10 year Hall of fame vet in Huard cant beat out the younger better QB yet. What is taking him so long Hootie? Why can Huard go in there and put this to rest? Please answer....

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 09:39 AM
htismaqe...

For me...

Just admit, the only way Croyle should ever see the field this year is if Huard gets injured, or the Chiefs fall out of contention...

There is no reason to put this guy on the field...he's obviously NOT READY.

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 09:39 AM
With the way Croyle is playing, I'd rather them not call a simple roll out pass...

Let's just run the ball and be content with punting and seeing if our defense can score points...

That's our best chance if the poor man's Rex Grossman is our starting QB.


I am content with that...


Poor mans Rex Grossman? What does that make Huard? A rich mans David Klinger?

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 09:40 AM
Nope because Huard should of tested the market and went to a place where he would of been guaranteed the starter. Huard still isnt the starter here yet... Why have competition when you could be the starter else where...


What is a shame is that a 10 year Hall of fame vet in Huard cant beat out the younger better QB yet. What is taking him so long Hootie? Why can Huard go in there and put this to rest? Please answer....
Apparently Huard is a very intelligent guy...

He realized, "hey, I don't even have to beat this guy out! He'll beat himself out and I'll win the job by default!"

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 09:40 AM
htismaqe...

For me...

Just admit, the only way Croyle should ever see the field this year is if Huard gets injured, or the Chiefs fall out of contention...

There is no reason to put this guy on the field...he's obviously NOT READY.


Neither is the OL, Defense, WR's or anyone else...


so why single out one person when the rest of the team isnt doing their part either?

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 09:41 AM
Apparently Huard is a very intelligent guy...

He realized, "hey, I don't even have to beat this guy out! He'll beat himself out and I'll win the job by default!"


That is a weak rebuttal... Come on you are better than that...

Give us something solid on why he hasnt beat out the young QB yet....

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 09:43 AM
That is a weak rebuttal... Come on you are better than that...

Give us something solid on why he hasnt beat out the young QB yet....
Huard has what, 10 pass attempts in the preseason?

Croyle has beaten himself...he had the chance to prove he was starter material, and he didn't...

He lost, he's young, he still has his chance...but not this year.

Huard doesn't have to prove himself...he proved, in real games, last season, he can QB in the NFL...

That's why Huard wins this job. Croyle fell on his face, Huard didn't have to do shit. Brodie wasn't competing with Damon, he was competing with himself...and he didn't show up. That doesn't mean he's a lost cause, it just means he's not ready.

Fortunately, we have a veteran who proved last year he can lead this team to victories.

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 09:45 AM
Sorry guys - it just feels so nice being right all the time!

I love owning the boards "really, really smart guy!" htismaqe on a weekly basis!

Let's hear it, h-man! You predicted all along Damon would start this year, didn't you!?

Chief Faithful
08-24-2007, 09:45 AM
Dude we all know it.. It is called rebuilding and getting younger... It is going to suck and the bandwagon will be empty...

But you know what? This is the first time in 18+ years that the Chiefs have totally gutted the roster and started over... I am more excited about the next 3 years then I have been in years of watching the Chiefs.

Croyle, Bowe, Pollard, Page, Allen, the list goes on...

Plus this is the first time we have actually tried to do something every other team in the NFL has done.. And that is develop a QB...

Right now the thought of Croyle starting has Carl and many of the Chiefs fans sucking their thumbs and crying in the corner... Why? Because they are scared to actually try and build a championship team...

I'm on the same wagon as you and Goat. Given the pressure, dropped passes, and vanilla game plan I thought Croyle showed good decisions. The only question I have is how good will his decisions be when the defenses start game planning and mixing up the coverage.

This is the year to develop the young players so I still say throw them in and let them play. I only feel this way because the Chiefs currently have a bundle of young talent that have shown me enough to believe there is a strong future for this team. It has been a long long time since I've seen this much young talent in KC.

Otter
08-24-2007, 09:47 AM
Acutally it is called HOPE, Croyle gives us HOPE for the Future...

Huard gives us nothing for the future...

People in KC are scared, scared to develop a QB.. Carl has them so brainwashed, that if he fields and 7-9 - 10-6 type team and gets bitched slapped every year in the playoffs.. Chiefs fans will open the wallets with glee....

KC Celebrates this crap like other teams celebrate superbowl wins...

And with THUNDEROUS applause - :rockon: :toast: :clap:

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 09:47 AM
Huard has what, 10 pass attempts in the preseason?

Croyle has beaten himself...he had the chance to prove he was starter material, and he didn't...

He lost, he's young, he still has his chance...but not this year.

Huard doesn't have to prove himself...he proved, in real games, last season, he can QB in the NFL...

That's why Huard wins this job. Croyle fell on his face, Huard didn't have to do shit. Brodie wasn't competing with Damon, he was competing with himself...and he didn't show up. That doesn't mean he's a lost cause, it just means he's not ready.

Fortunately, we have a veteran who proved last year he can lead this team to victories.


See your point, But why set the franchise back another year or two, just because Huard will win us a couple more games than Croyle?

Acutally Huard proved nothing to many last year.. did what a backup was supposed to do... I would take Croyle and his potential before I would take a backup that cant play because his calf hurts...

Chief Faithful
08-24-2007, 09:48 AM
I watched both games, and I think that it's debatable. Both teams looked bad though, no doubt about it.

The standout aspects are Donks have to find a solution on the DL and the Chiefs have a similar problem on the OL. It looks like there will be a lot of high scoring games in Denver and low scoring games in KC.

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 09:50 AM
See your point, But why set the franchise back another year or two, just because Huard will win us a couple more games than Croyle?

Acutally Huard proved nothing to many last year.. did what a backup was supposed to do... I would take Croyle and his potential before I would take a backup that cant play because his calf hurts...
If starting Huard sets the Chiefs back a year or two, that's awesome! Because starting (and ruining) Croyle sets us back AT LEAST five years.

You choose...

Start Huard, be a potential playoff team, lose in the first or second round, set the Chiefs back a year or two while Croyle LEARNS how to be an NFL QB...

OR

Start Croyle, ruin the kid because he isn't ready, get a top 10 pick, draft a QB, waste Tony Gonzalez and Larry Johnson's final years, and set the Chiefs franchise back AT LEAST 5 years (IF this QB works out - which is never a given)...

I'll take Huard, thank you!

Woodrow Call
08-24-2007, 09:51 AM
I completely agree with everything Reerun_KC has said in this thread. :clap:

Never thought I'd say that.

Frankie
08-24-2007, 09:51 AM
I'm a Brodie Croyle fan, but I am going to have to disagree. I don't believe he won the job last night. That said, Len Dawson was timing the pass rushes, and said Brees had 4 seconds in the pocket, which is not enough. The Chiefs were only providing Brodie with 2 seconds. Heck, even Joe Montana couldn't complete passes with that little time.
Maybe the Svitek experiment should be stopped and filed away in the failed experiments drawer. Almost all rushes were coming from his side.

Chief Faithful
08-24-2007, 09:51 AM
With the way Croyle is playing, I'd rather them not call a simple roll out pass...

Let's just run the ball and be content with punting and seeing if our defense can score points...

That's our best chance if the poor man's Rex Grossman is our starting QB.

Hootie, you must really not like Croyle. You might want to hide for a year in that closet where all the Charger fans used to hide. We'll let you know when it is safe to come back out.

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 09:51 AM
You know...

Suddenly I have a STRONG feeling Huard will be named the starter.

In which case, I will LOL @ you while you backtrack and make excuse after excuse and cite posts where you claimed you never said Croyle would be the starter...

ROFL

I've produced pages of posts of you backtracking exactly like that. And you've posted nothing.

You're a joke.

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 09:52 AM
Why didn't LJ holdout for more money?! He caved...

Maybe Huard liked it in KC...

7.5 million over three years isn't chump change...call it a backup QB contract if you'd like, but maybe he was content and felt as if that was good enough and liked his current situation in KC? Ever think of that?

LJ got starter money.

Huard got backup money.

If Huard even THOUGHT he had a shot at close to starter money, he would've gotten it.

Unless, of course you're suggesting that Huard is the FIRST PLAYER IN MODERN NFL HISTORY to take a contract worth less than 30% of what he could have made.

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 09:52 AM
and saying Huard proved nothing last year is a bit ridiculous...

We had board idiot Logical claiming we were done, no more wins, all losses (yet we were a playoff team)...Damon EASILY outplayed the starter on our team, had a 99 QB rating, and managed our team...showed he was a leader...he really did...when LJ dropped a screen pass and Damon was livid, that's what sold me on the guy...it was awesome...Damon doesn't care about him, or his stats, he wants to win, he's a team player...

and he gets zero respect...but you know what, who cares?

If we start 1-3 (which is inevitable, if you ask me)...Damon can take the boo's...he's a veteran, he's been around, he's had a good career...he's made his money...let him take the boo's...

**** putting the pressure on the kid...let him learn, develop, play him when he's ready...

HE ISN'T READY.

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 09:54 AM
Better yet, let's throw Croyle in there and RUIN him and draft a QB in next year's draft!

Yeah!

Awesome!!!

Great idea!

You have yet to provide any proof, let alone solid evidence, that Croyle will be ruined by any of this.

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 09:55 AM
Hootie, you must really not like Croyle. You might want to hide for a year in that closet where all the Charger fans used to hide. We'll let you know when it is safe to come back out.
I don't dislike Croyle at all...

But come on, there's a reason why he was a 3rd round pick...

He can wait...he isn't making MILLIONS per year...having him wait does no damage to the Chiefs...

It's not like the Chargers where they had the better QB playing (Brees), but the young guy was on the bench making more money than anyone on the team...

Croyle is making near the minimum...he is no financial burden on the Chiefs...we don't owe him shit.

He's not ready, so he doesn't start. Simple.

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 09:55 AM
Huard has what, 10 pass attempts in the preseason?

Croyle has beaten himself...he had the chance to prove he was starter material, and he didn't...

He lost, he's young, he still has his chance...but not this year.

Huard doesn't have to prove himself...he proved, in real games, last season, he can QB in the NFL...

That's why Huard wins this job. Croyle fell on his face, Huard didn't have to do shit. Brodie wasn't competing with Damon, he was competing with himself...and he didn't show up. That doesn't mean he's a lost cause, it just means he's not ready.

Fortunately, we have a veteran who proved last year he can lead this team to victories.

And yet we still have a QB controversy. :hmmm:

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 09:55 AM
Sorry guys - it just feels so nice being right all the time!

I love owning the boards "really, really smart guy!" htismaqe on a weekly basis!

Let's hear it, h-man! You predicted all along Damon would start this year, didn't you!?

ROFL

Produce the quotes or shut up about it.

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 09:56 AM
I don't dislike Croyle at all...

But come on, there's a reason why he was a 3rd round pick...

He can wait...he isn't making MILLIONS per year...having him wait does no damage to the Chiefs...

It's not like the Chargers where they had the better QB playing (Brees), but the young guy was on the bench making more money than anyone on the team...

Croyle is making near the minimum...he is no financial burden on the Chiefs...we don't owe him shit.

He's not ready, so he doesn't start. Simple.

Brees = 24
Huard = 34

Brees = talented
Huard = not talented

Chief Faithful
08-24-2007, 09:56 AM
Maybe the Svitek experiment should be stopped and filed away in the failed experiments drawer. Almost all rushes were coming from his side.

Nice idea, but who can do a better job? Maybe Brett Williams is still available for a tryout?

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 09:57 AM
LJ got starter money.

Huard got backup money.

If Huard even THOUGHT he had a shot at close to starter money, he would've gotten it.

Unless, of course you're suggesting that Huard is the FIRST PLAYER IN MODERN NFL HISTORY to take a contract worth less than 30% of what he could have made.
Do you really think he doesn't KNOW he could've made more money elsewhere?!

You think his agent wasn't smart enough to inform him of this?

He was OBVIOUSLY happy with his situation in KC...

Why can't you just take that for what it's worth?

Damon went from making the vet minimum to signing a 7.5 million dollar contract...

Take 7.5 here with ZERO pressure, or sign with a shitty team like Cleveland, be a starter, have no chance of being good with that shitty team, and get cut and essentially get paid for 1 year of that "lucrative" deal he signs...

Otter
08-24-2007, 09:57 AM
Waiting two years to be a starter sure ruined Philip Rivers' career.

Let me ask you something Hootie:

Let's say the Chiefs bomb this year like you seem to fear so much by starting Croyle.

In turn through they draft and free agency good left tackle, secondary receiver, full back and a couple other linemen and maybe a CB in the mix.

On paper the team looks ready to make a run at the post-season.

Is it better to start Croyle next season or this season?

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 09:58 AM
You have yet to provide any proof, let alone solid evidence, that Croyle will be ruined by any of this.
If Croyle can't handle the heat of a QB competition in PRESEASON, how do you think he's going to fair when the games count?

I'LL GUESS! I'LL GUESS!

Not good.

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 09:58 AM
Do you really think he doesn't KNOW he could've made more money elsewhere?!

You think his agent wasn't smart enough to inform him of this?

He was OBVIOUSLY happy with his situation in KC...

Why can't you just take that for what it's worth?

Damon went from making the vet minimum to signing a 7.5 million dollar contract...

Take 7.5 here with ZERO pressure, or sign with a shitty team like Cleveland, be a starter, have no chance of being good with that shitty team, and get cut and essentially get paid for 1 year of that "lucrative" deal he signs...

I am taking it for what it's worth.

He knew he was going to be a backup, plain and simple.

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 09:58 AM
If starting Huard sets the Chiefs back a year or two, that's awesome! Because starting (and ruining) Croyle sets us back AT LEAST five years.

You choose...

Start Huard, be a potential playoff team, lose in the first or second round, set the Chiefs back a year or two while Croyle LEARNS how to be an NFL QB...

OR

Start Croyle, ruin the kid because he isn't ready, get a top 10 pick, draft a QB, waste Tony Gonzalez and Larry Johnson's final years, and set the Chiefs franchise back AT LEAST 5 years (IF this QB works out - which is never a given)...

I'll take Huard, thank you!

Huard doesnt make this a potential playoff team Hootie.. hell he cant even run right now because he is injured. With an open interstate at LT, Huard wont stand a chance and most likely lead the NFL agian in fumbles. Huard wont take us 2 games deep into the playoffs. Sorry dude, just dont see it.. Agianst real defenses, Huard pisses himself. Proved that last year...

You know what? at some point you have to waste someone to develop a QB. Did the Chargers waste LT and Gates with Rivers? How about the Bengals with Palmer? Titans with Young? List goes on and on... If we have a solid coaching staff, then he will use those weapons to develop his QB and put him into a position to succeed. Just like he did last year with Huard...

Huard didnt lead this team, Herm and Solari kept Huard from destroying this team... Made the offense so basic that Huard could succeed. IF they can do it with a career no talent backup, then they can do it with a QB that has more talent in his left big toe than Huard ever dreamed of.

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 09:59 AM
If Croyle can't handle the heat of a QB competition in PRESEASON, how do you think he's going to fair when the games count?

I'LL GUESS! I'LL GUESS!

Not good.

Huard can't handle it either, and he's been in the league for a DECADE!

ROFL

Chief Faithful
08-24-2007, 10:00 AM
I don't dislike Croyle at all...

But come on, there's a reason why he was a 3rd round pick...

He can wait...he isn't making MILLIONS per year...having him wait does no damage to the Chiefs...

It's not like the Chargers where they had the better QB playing (Brees), but the young guy was on the bench making more money than anyone on the team...

Croyle is making near the minimum...he is no financial burden on the Chiefs...we don't owe him shit.

He's not ready, so he doesn't start. Simple.

Brees didn't look good at the start of his second year, but because of the experience he is the best QB in the NFC now.

I wouldn't be upset if the Chiefs started Huard as long as they make Croyle the starter at mid-season. That would give the rest of the offense time to gel before Croyle was thrown in the fire. It is how Shannarat handled Cutler and how Walsh handled Montana.

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 10:00 AM
ROFL

Produce the quotes or shut up about it.
I'm not going to go search for quotes like you do...I'm not THAT gay.

However, you openly said, many times, Green was the better QB for the Chiefs last year, Huard wouldn't be resigned by the Chiefs, and Huard wouldn't be the starter for the Chiefs this year...

Am I wrong about any of this?

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 10:01 AM
Let me ask you something Hootie:

Let's say the Chiefs bomb this year like you seem to fear so much by starting Croyle.

In turn through they draft and free agency good left tackle, secondary receiver, full back and a couple other linemen and maybe a CB in the mix.

On paper the team looks ready to make a run at the post-season.

Is it better to start Croyle next season or this season?

He'd rather go 9-7, back into the playoffs, lose, and go through it all again next offseason.

We're scared of developing a QB, so put it off indefinitely.

Donger
08-24-2007, 10:03 AM
From what I gather:

1) The OL is rather porous.
2) The receivers aren't particularly good at, well, receiving.

If those two are facts, what difference does it make which QB is taking the snaps? Would it make more sense to play the QB that can best avoid being sacked?

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 10:04 AM
Huard doesnt make this a potential playoff team Hootie.. hell he cant even run right now because he is injured. With an open interstate at LT, Huard wont stand a chance and most likely lead the NFL agian in fumbles. Huard wont take us 2 games deep into the playoffs. Sorry dude, just dont see it.. Agianst real defenses, Huard pisses himself. Proved that last year...

You know what? at some point you have to waste someone to develop a QB. Did the Chargers waste LT and Gates with Rivers? How about the Bengals with Palmer? Titans with Young? List goes on and on... If we have a solid coaching staff, then he will use those weapons to develop his QB and put him into a position to succeed. Just like he did last year with Huard...

Huard didnt lead this team, Herm and Solari kept Huard from destroying this team... Made the offense so basic that Huard could succeed. IF they can do it with a career no talent backup, then they can do it with a QB that has more talent in his left big toe than Huard ever dreamed of.
Svitek can't be any worse than Black...

And McIntosh, when healthy, is a huge upgrade.

AND Huard handled our woes on the line way better than our folk hero Trent Green did last year...

Look, we've seen Huard bomb in preseason for two straight years.

We've also seen Croyle bomb in preseason the last two years.

What's the difference?

Huard EXCELLED in the REGULAR SEASON last year.

That's why he WON the job. It's like Dick's decision to start Priest over LJ in 2005...was Priest the better back? Not even close...but he was the "safe" bet.

And it was the wrong bet.

Huard could be the wrong bet, but right now, he's the safe bet, and in the NFL, where winning matters, even if it's only 9 games, you always take the safe bet, especially when the risky bet (Croyle) was a 3rd round pick, is making NO money, and it won't hurt anything if we let the guy hold a clipboard and develop for another year.

He isn't the #4 pick in the NFL draft. We didn't sign him for 40 million guaranteed...

He is FINE on the bench.

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 10:04 AM
I'm not going to go search for quotes like you do...I'm not THAT gay.

However, you openly said, many times, Green was the better QB for the Chiefs last year, Huard wouldn't be resigned by the Chiefs, and Huard wouldn't be the starter for the Chiefs this year...

Am I wrong about any of this?

Nice duck.

You won't produce the quotes because you can't.

I OPENLY said that Green was the starter because you can't lose your starting job because of injury. Herm agreed with me, for better or worse.

I DID say Huard wouldn't be resigned by the Chiefs. I thought for sure he'd look for a starting job on the open market. Instead, he shocked me and many others by basically agreeing to be the backup in KC before free agency even started.

And of course, I've maintained since the middle of last season that Croyle SHOULD be the starter, not WOULD be the starter.

Otter
08-24-2007, 10:05 AM
From what I gather:

1) The OL is rather porous.
2) The receivers aren't particularly good at, well, receiving.

If those two are facts, what difference does it make which QB is taking the snaps? Would it make more sense to play the QB that can best avoid being sacked?

Stop being so damn illogical all the time Donger!!!

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 10:06 AM
Svitek can't be any worse than Black...

And McIntosh, when healthy, is a huge upgrade.

AND Huard handled our woes on the line way better than our folk hero Trent Green did last year...

Look, we've seen Huard bomb in preseason for two straight years.

We've also seen Croyle bomb in preseason the last two years.

What's the difference?

Huard EXCELLED in the REGULAR SEASON last year.

That's why he WON the job. It's like Dick's decision to start Priest over LJ in 2005...was Priest the better back? Not even close...but he was the "safe" bet.

And it was the wrong bet.

Huard could be the wrong bet, but right now, he's the safe bet, and in the NFL, where winning matters, even if it's only 9 games, you always take the safe bet, especially when the risky bet (Croyle) was a 3rd round pick, is making NO money, and it won't hurt anything if we let the guy hold a clipboard and develop for another year.

He isn't the #4 pick in the NFL draft. We didn't sign him for 40 million guaranteed...

He is FINE on the bench.


ROFL

Sometimes I can't believe the stuff that you post. It's like you do it intentionally.

It's EXACTLY like Vermeil's decision to start Holmes over LJ.

The problem is that you're equating Huard to LJ, which is 100% backwards.

Huard = Priest = safe

Croyle, like LJ, has ALL of the upside.

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 10:06 AM
Brees didn't look good at the start of his second year, but because of the experience he is the best QB in the NFC now.

I wouldn't be upset if the Chiefs started Huard as long as they make Croyle the starter at mid-season. That would give the rest of the offense time to gel before Croyle was thrown in the fire. It is how Shannarat handled Cutler and how Walsh handled Montana.
I've said, for a long time now, Huard starts, if we go 1-3 (which I predict), then it is Croyle time. Give him 7 of 9 at Arrowhead to start his long career as Chiefs QB (hopefully)...

It's a win/win situation for the Chiefs.

We go 1-3, Croyle time and he develops! That's what everyone wants...

OR

we AMAZINGLY go 2-2 or 3-1, stay with Huard, and experience the playoffs again...I'd rather go 1 and out then 6-10 and hate my life the entire season.

And if that means Carl has me brainwashed, then so be it...I'll take 10-6 and a playoff loss over 6-10 and a top 10 pick every time.

dirk digler
08-24-2007, 10:07 AM
He'd rather go 9-7, back into the playoffs, lose, and go through it all again next offseason.

We're scared of developing a QB, so put it off indefinitely.

I wouldn't be scared of developing a QB if we actually had an offensive staff and Head Coach that were offensive minded.

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 10:07 AM
Salibury said on ESPN that he would start Huard IF Healthy, but said that he is pretty sure Croyle will be the starter come sept...

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 10:07 AM
Furthermore, Huard is also FINE on the bench.

In fact, he knows it better than anybody else on the team. He's spent a DECADE there.

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 10:08 AM
And if that means Carl has me brainwashed, then so be it...I'll take 10-6 and a playoff loss over 6-10 and a top 10 pick every time.

Disclaimer: I don't mean ANY offense by asking this.

How long have you been a fan?

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 10:09 AM
ROFL

Sometimes I can't believe the stuff that you post. It's like you do it intentionally.

It's EXACTLY like Vermeil's decision to start Holmes over LJ.

The problem is that you're equating Huard to LJ, which is 100% backwards.

Huard = Priest = safe

Croyle, like LJ, has ALL of the upside.
That's what I said in my post...

Dick made the wrong decision, but it was a bad comparison, and I knew it would come back to haunt me when I posted it...

You can't really compare a young RB to a young QB...but I was comparing the predicament Herm was in...

Start Croyle and potentially (very likely, actually) ruin him and lose his job because the Chiefs won't rebound for a half decade...

OR

Start Huard and give the Chiefs the better chance.

He's going to take the safe bet, even if he doesn't want to...

Carl will force it upon him.

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 10:09 AM
I've said, for a long time now, Huard starts, if we go 1-3 (which I predict), then it is Croyle time. Give him 7 of 9 at Arrowhead to start his long career as Chiefs QB (hopefully)...

It's a win/win situation for the Chiefs.

We go 1-3, Croyle time and he develops! That's what everyone wants...

OR

we AMAZINGLY go 2-2 or 3-1, stay with Huard, and experience the playoffs again...I'd rather go 1 and out then 6-10 and hate my life the entire season.

And if that means Carl has me brainwashed, then so be it...I'll take 10-6 and a playoff loss over 6-10 and a top 10 pick every time.


You pretty much summed up everything I said this morning... I rest my case...

Your post is excatly why the Chiefs will never win a Championship with the current management.

Thanks for proving my point Hootie.. Rep to you!

boogblaster
08-24-2007, 10:09 AM
Croyle then Terrell if I were King ....

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 10:09 AM
Salibury said on ESPN that he would start Huard IF Healthy, but said that he is pretty sure Croyle will be the starter come sept...
I don't usually like to reference ESPN or any media outlet that isn't local - but everyone is saying it's a joke that Huard hasn't been named the starter.

And it is...

A complete joke.

Donger
08-24-2007, 10:10 AM
Stop being so damn illogical all the time Donger!!!

I suppose I just don't understand the emotion involved in this decision. Huard is injured anyway, right?

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 10:10 AM
You pretty much summed up everything I said this morning... I rest my case...

Your post is excatly why the Chiefs will never win a Championship with the current management.

Thanks for proving my point Hootie.. Rep to you!
I better get that rep - I'm in dire need.

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 10:12 AM
I don't usually like to reference ESPN or any media outlet that isn't local - but everyone is saying it's a joke that Huard hasn't been named the starter.

And it is...

A complete joke.


Your right. For a guy that has been in the league this long cant ever beat out anyone for a starter job...

it is a complete joke.

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 10:12 AM
Start Croyle and potentially (very likely, actually) ruin him and lose his job because the Chiefs won't rebound for a half decade...

Once again, you say this.

I ask again - PROVE IT.

Provide some evidence, ANY evidence, that suggests that Croyle would be ruined.

In the past year we've had HUNDREDS of articles posted right here about Croyle, his psyche, and his family life. ALL OF IT points to the EXACT OPPOSITE conclusion - Croyle has all the elements to perservere, and in many cases ALREADY HAS.

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 10:12 AM
I better get that rep - I'm in dire need.


You got it....

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 10:12 AM
Disclaimer: I don't mean ANY offense by asking this.

How long have you been a fan?
No offense taken...

I can remember the exact time...

I had just moved from Naperville, I was almost 5...I was living in Lenexa at the time with my Dad who had just taken a new job...

He was watching the Chiefs game, I was a young kid...I was watching with him and didn't have a ton of interest...

Chiefs verse Broncos...

Derrick Thomas sacks John Elway...Elway fumbles...and it's my Dad's favorite story because I was so excited...he says I was jumping up and down...totally stoked. It's when I became a sports fan, really...

No cartoon for me as a kid...I woke up at 6 AM everyday before school to watch sportscenter...Dad bought season tickets and I didn't miss a Chiefs game from age 6-12 @ Arrowhead (I moved back to Illinois when I was 13)...

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 10:15 AM
Once again, you say this.

I ask again - PROVE IT.

Provide some evidence, ANY evidence, that suggests that Croyle would be ruined.

In the past year we've had HUNDREDS of articles posted right here about Croyle, his psyche, and his family life. ALL OF IT points to the EXACT OPPOSITE conclusion - Croyle has all the elements to perservere, and in many cases ALREADY HAS.
Why did the Texans draft David Carr 1st overall!?

Because he was married, had a kid, and they considered him to be VERY mature.

Joey Harrington!? Very positive morale.

The fact is, good family life and morale means LITTLE for a young kid trying to be a QB in the NFL.

It's all about the swagger.

Brady has it. Manning has it. Those guys walk around like they have 10" dicks. It's awesome.

As soon as Croyle looses his moxie, if he has any, he's done. A QB can have all the talent in the world, but that's only half the battle. Croyle, TONS of talent, but he's not ready to be THE guy. And he's proven that.

We have a guy that is THE perfect fall-back crutch. Well now is the time to use him...because Croyle has proven he's not ready.

Otter
08-24-2007, 10:16 AM
I've said, for a long time now, Huard starts, if we go 1-3 (which I predict), then it is Croyle time. Give him 7 of 9 at Arrowhead to start his long career as Chiefs QB (hopefully)...

It's a win/win situation for the Chiefs.

We go 1-3, Croyle time and he develops! That's what everyone wants...

OR

we AMAZINGLY go 2-2 or 3-1, stay with Huard, and experience the playoffs again...I'd rather go 1 and out then 6-10 and hate my life the entire season.

And if that means Carl has me brainwashed, then so be it...I'll take 10-6 and a playoff loss over 6-10 and a top 10 pick every time.

I've read enough.

I think your opinion on the matter is absolutely asinine and ignorant unless you know absolutely no history about this team but I do understand your take on the matter now.

Cochise
08-24-2007, 10:16 AM
I don't know where some people are getting that Croyle played OK. At one point, what was he, 3-15 or something? He got some pressure, but he also made some poor throws. Spin it however, but that kind of stat line doesn't happen to guys who are pretty good NFL QBs.


Now, that being said, Croyle is still the right choice. We need to hand him the job. Name Croyle the starter for the whole regular season. Stop letting him think in the back of his mind that he's got to win the job or that he might lose it. Don't make him press things. Let him settle in and relax and just think about learning to play the game at NFL speed.

We're no threat to win any more than 8 games, maybe 9, with Huard at the helm. We're not contenders. Therefore, we invest in the QBOTF.

Seems pretty damn simple.

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 10:16 AM
No offense taken...

I can remember the exact time...

I had just moved from Naperville, I was almost 5...I was living in Lenexa at the time with my Dad who had just taken a new job...

He was watching the Chiefs game, I was a young kid...I was watching with him and didn't have a ton of interest...

Chiefs verse Broncos...

Derrick Thomas sacks John Elway...Elway fumbles...and it's my Dad's favorite story because I was so excited...he says I was jumping up and down...totally stoked. It's when I became a sports fan, really...

No cartoon for me as a kid...I woke up at 6 AM everyday before school to watch sportscenter...Dad bought season tickets and I didn't miss a Chiefs game from age 6-12 @ Arrowhead (I moved back to Illinois when I was 13)...

There you go.

You became a fan during the Marty years. That explains alot.

Donger
08-24-2007, 10:17 AM
because Croyle has proven he's not ready.

You keep saying that, but unless I'm mistaken, he hasn't started a regular season game yet, right?

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 10:18 AM
Why did the Texans draft David Carr 1st overall!?

Because he was married, had a kid, and they considered him to be VERY mature.

Joey Harrington!? Very positive morale.

The fact is, good family life and morale means LITTLE for a young kid trying to be a QB in the NFL.

It's all about the swagger.

Brady has it. Manning has it. Those guys walk around like they have 10" dicks. It's awesome.

As soon as Croyle looses his moxie, if he has any, he's done. A QB can have all the talent in the world, but that's only half the battle. Croyle, TONS of talent, but he's not ready to be THE guy. And he's proven that.

We have a guy that is THE perfect fall-back crutch. Well now is the time to use him...because Croyle has proven he's not ready.

Actually, you just PROVED my point.

David Carr, in Houston, was sacked more times than any QB in the HISTORY OF THE GAME.

Is he ruined? Of course not.

Otter
08-24-2007, 10:18 AM
I suppose I just don't understand the emotion involved in this decision. Huard is injured anyway, right?

That is correct and the reason he didn't play last night.

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 10:20 AM
There you go.

You became a fan during the Marty years. That explains alot.
You know, maybe you're right...

But I've heard it was much worse before the Marty years...

And personally, I think every Chiefs fan that doesn't appreciate Marty Schottenheimer is ridiculous.

He turned the organization around.

Yeah, he didn't fare well in the postseason. We all know that.

And yes, we haven't won a playoff game since Keith Cash mocked Buddy Ryan on national TV...whatever.

Shit happens.

But I'm not going to be pessimistic about the only thing in sports that matters to me...

Give me a 9-7 season before a 6-10 season every year and I'll be content. Hopefully someday we win a Super Bowl...but hey, if we don't, then we don't...I'll live.

ChiTown
08-24-2007, 10:21 AM
There you go.

You became a fan during the Marty years. That explains alot.

Well, to be fair, I'm sure there are a tremendous amount of people who became fans during that time. I highly doubt we have a strong contingent of posters who were ooed and awed during the Paul Wiggin years......

stumppy
08-24-2007, 10:21 AM
Tell me something Hootie.

You keep saying that Croyle is going to be ruined if he doesn't have a winning season. What exactly do you base this on ? Do you have inside information about Croyle ? Is he emotionally unstable? Would a few losses just crush him and make him loose his confidence ? Rendering him incapable (sp?) of even setting foot on the field without peeing his pants ?

Give up your sources. All of us would love to be privy to that kind of info. Or do you have some sort of quarterback developmental handbook you get your info from ?

Donger
08-24-2007, 10:21 AM
Seems pretty damn simple.

Some thrive on drama, it would seem.

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 10:22 AM
Actually, you just PROVED my point.

David Carr, in Houston, was sacked more times than any QB in the HISTORY OF THE GAME.

Is he ruined? Of course not.
I'd say he's ruined...

The guy was sacked because he couldn't get rid of the ball...and he can't read defenses...

It's awful. He's a one read guy...if his first read isn't open, he's done.

He isn't any good, and he'll never be any good. People think he's the answer in Carolina once they bench Delhomme, but he won't be...

He's awful.

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 10:22 AM
Tell me something Hootie.

You keep saying that Croyle is going to be ruined if he doesn't have a winning season. What exactly do you base this on ? Do you have inside information about Croyle ? Is he emotionally unstable? Would a few losses just crush him and make him loose his confidence ? Rendering him incapable (sp?) of even setting foot on the field without peeing his pants ?

Give up your sources. All of us would love to be privy to that kind of info. Or do you have some sort of quarterback developmental handbook you get your info from ?
For every John Elway, there are hundreds of Joey Harrington's...

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 10:23 AM
You know, maybe you're right...

But I've heard it was much worse before the Marty years...

And personally, I think every Chiefs fan that doesn't appreciate Marty Schottenheimer is ridiculous.

He turned the organization around.

Yeah, he didn't fare well in the postseason. We all know that.

And yes, we haven't won a playoff game since Keith Cash mocked Buddy Ryan on national TV...whatever.

Shit happens.

But I'm not going to be pessimistic about the only thing in sports that matters to me...

Give me a 9-7 season before a 6-10 season every year and I'll be content. Hopefully someday we win a Super Bowl...but hey, if we don't, then we don't...I'll live.

Your right Hootie, Marty turned the chiefs around and now it is time to turn away from the Marty.. Huard = Marty Croyle = NFL Coaches who succeed..

What is the difference between 9-7 and 6-10 besides draft position?

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 10:24 AM
And if you like the Chiefs as much as I do, it's like your kid...

Why throw Croyle into the fire for the inevitable boo's once we start losing when you have a guy, Huard, who can take them and not be bothered by it?

Seriously...

We have a BRUTAL start to the season...let they typical fan see what kind of team we are with Huard at the helm so that IF we are bad, we can turn to Croyle and the kid can ease his way in with ZERO pressure...

Seriously.

How does this not make sense?

Someone answer me.

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 10:24 AM
For every John Elway, there are hundreds of Joey Harrington's...


Who is starting in ATL... And has the same stats as manning had with as many games played....

Dammit Joey! :cuss:

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 10:25 AM
I'd say he's ruined...

The guy was sacked because he couldn't get rid of the ball...and he can't read defenses...

It's awful. He's a one read guy...if his first read isn't open, he's done.

He isn't any good, and he'll never be any good. People think he's the answer in Carolina once they bench Delhomme, but he won't be...

He's awful.

Umm, those are mechanics problems. He didn't DEVELOP the inability to read a defense because he was sacked. He never started with that ability.

And in the end, he may be awful, but he's STILL not ruined.

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 10:25 AM
Give me a 9-7 season before a 6-10 season every year and I'll be content. Hopefully someday we win a Super Bowl...but hey, if we don't, then we don't...I'll live.

You haven't been a fan long enough.

Extra Point
08-24-2007, 10:25 AM
Todd Collins made a lot of dough here, carrying the clipboard. So will Huard. Start Croyle. Huard's too banged up for the next 3-4 weeks to play.

I'd like Terrell to be #3, but it sure seems like Printers will have that spot.

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 10:26 AM
What is the difference between 9-7 and 6-10 besides draft position?
I'll answer this:

A playoff spot and HOPE.

What fun is cheering on a team when they are 2-6 and the season is over?!

If you're a diehard fan of the draft, maybe that's cool...

But I'd rather draft 21st every year and sniff the playoffs, or at least be in contention, than draft 9th every year and maybe someday build a contender.

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 10:26 AM
And if you like the Chiefs as much as I do, it's like your kid...

Why throw Croyle into the fire for the inevitable boo's once we start losing when you have a guy, Huard, who can take them and not be bothered by it?

Seriously...

We have a BRUTAL start to the season...let they typical fan see what kind of team we are with Huard at the helm so that IF we are bad, we can turn to Croyle and the kid can ease his way in with ZERO pressure...

Seriously.

How does this not make sense?

Someone answer me.


What makes you think the fans at Arrowhead are going to be friendly to Croyle? They were booing at a practice game last night...

Let Croyle get his experience and mistakes out on the road instead of infront of 80K boo birds looking to suck off Huard and Carl...

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 10:26 AM
Who is starting in ATL... And has the same stats as manning had with as many games played....

Dammit Joey! :cuss:
They signed him to be a starter!

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 10:26 AM
For every John Elway, there are hundreds of Joey Harrington's...

We'll never know, because we're too scared to give it a try.

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 10:27 AM
And if you like the Chiefs as much as I do, it's like your kid...

Why throw Croyle into the fire for the inevitable boo's once we start losing when you have a guy, Huard, who can take them and not be bothered by it?

Seriously...

We have a BRUTAL start to the season...let they typical fan see what kind of team we are with Huard at the helm so that IF we are bad, we can turn to Croyle and the kid can ease his way in with ZERO pressure...

Seriously.

How does this not make sense?

Someone answer me.

HOPE.

Huard provides most of us with ZERO hope. ZERO.

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 10:27 AM
You haven't been a fan long enough.
I'm only 22...

I'm happy that I'm not ruined like most of you seem to be...

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 10:27 AM
I'll answer this:

A playoff spot and HOPE.

What fun is cheering on a team when they are 2-6 and the season is over?!

If you're a diehard fan of the draft, maybe that's cool...

But I'd rather draft 21st every year and sniff the playoffs, or at least be in contention, than draft 9th every year and maybe someday build a contender.

Right Hootie, that is why we havent won a playoff game since 1994. We want to sniff the playoffs and not be a serious threat.

We won in 1994 because of Joe, not Marty... Joe was still good enough to over come Marty....

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 10:28 AM
I'm only 22...

I'm happy that I'm not ruined like most of you seem to be...


Your fine, just a bit over zealous with your Huard man love....

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 10:28 AM
What makes you think the fans at Arrowhead are going to be friendly to Croyle? They were booing at a practice game last night...

Let Croyle get his experience and mistakes out on the road instead of infront of 80K boo birds looking to suck off Huard and Carl...
That's my ****ing point...

They won't be friendly...if we're losing, every casual fan will be wondering why Croyle is starting instead of Huard...

Show the typical fan that we're not good (if that's the case) by starting the veteran who has EARNED that right...so when we start off miserably Croyle can enter the seen and either save our season, or get some snaps under his belt for 2008.

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 10:29 AM
I'll answer this:

A playoff spot and HOPE.

What fun is cheering on a team when they are 2-6 and the season is over?!

If you're a diehard fan of the draft, maybe that's cool...

But I'd rather draft 21st every year and sniff the playoffs, or at least be in contention, than draft 9th every year and maybe someday build a contender.

There's no fun in cheering on a 2-6 team.

Likewise, for those of us who would like to see a Super Bowl in our lifetime, there' no fun in cheering on a 6-4 team that you KNOW has no shot of winning in the playoffs, even though they're going to slide in.

With Huard at the helm, we're NOT in contention, regardless of record. It may LOOK like we're in contention, but don't kid yourself.

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 10:30 AM
HOPE.

Huard provides most of us with ZERO hope. ZERO.
He gives us more hope for this year...

and I'm a THIS year kind of guy...the NFL is a short season...and it's the best time of the year...

So kill me because I'd rather have my team be a playoff team then draft #6 overall and be in a position to get another Ryan Sims.

Otter
08-24-2007, 10:30 AM
How does this not make sense?

Someone answer me.

Because it gets easier as the season goes on, he learns from those games and doesn't have to look over his shoulder as to whether or not he's the starter, knows the coaches are confident in him and behind him being the starter and has three more games under his belt to build chemistry with everyone from his center to wide receivers?

:shrug:

Oh...but he might get a few booos...that definitely negates the upside.

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 10:30 AM
I'm only 22...

I'm happy that I'm not ruined like most of you seem to be...

We are ruined. You're right.

Hopefully we'll win something meaningful before you get to be like we are now.

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 10:31 AM
Right Hootie, that is why we havent won a playoff game since 1994. We want to sniff the playoffs and not be a serious threat.

We won in 1994 because of Joe, not Marty... Joe was still good enough to over come Marty....
It's Marty's fault that Lin missed three field goals in a 7-10 loss...

It's always this and that...shit happens...

I think Marty has been unlucky as opposed to not being a good coach.

The fumble, Lin Elliot, Nate Kaeding...I mean, come on...

Donger
08-24-2007, 10:31 AM
And if you like the Chiefs as much as I do, it's like your kid...

Why throw Croyle into the fire for the inevitable boo's once we start losing when you have a guy, Huard, who can take them and not be bothered by it?

Seriously...

We have a BRUTAL start to the season...let they typical fan see what kind of team we are with Huard at the helm so that IF we are bad, we can turn to Croyle and the kid can ease his way in with ZERO pressure...

Seriously.

How does this not make sense?

Someone answer me.

You're worried about boos?

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 10:32 AM
He gives us more hope for this year...

and I'm a THIS year kind of guy...the NFL is a short season...and it's the best time of the year...

So kill me because I'd rather have my team be a playoff team then draft #6 overall and be in a position to get another Ryan Sims.

There is no hope for this year, they're not a team that's going to win in the playoffs.

Therefore, the only hope is for the future, and Huard is not the future.

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 10:33 AM
It's Marty's fault that Lin missed three field goals in a 7-10 loss...

It's always this and that...shit happens...

I think Marty has been unlucky as opposed to not being a good coach.

The fumble, Lin Elliot, Nate Kaeding...I mean, come on...


Sucks to be Marty... ROFL... NFL Playoffs own Marty... LMAO

I could care less.. I never what to see Marty agian unless he is on the visitors sidelines in the playoffs...

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 10:34 AM
There's no fun in cheering on a 2-6 team.

Likewise, for those of us who would like to see a Super Bowl in our lifetime, there' no fun in cheering on a 6-4 team that you KNOW has no shot of winning in the playoffs, even though they're going to slide in.

With Huard at the helm, we're NOT in contention, regardless of record. It may LOOK like we're in contention, but don't kid yourself.
Why?

Our not nearly as good defense of 2006 played Peyton pretty decently in the postseason...

You're telling me we're not a better team THIS year with Damon at QB, Bowe at WR, Donnie/Napoleon/Pollard/Page on defense, a few new DT's etc... then we were last year, as a playoff team?

It's funny...everyone is ranking us near the bottom of the league because of our QB situation...but I can guarantee you this...we aren't any worse off at that position this year as we were last year with Trent 'I hold the ball WAY TOO long' Green....

So why won't we win 10 games this year? Seriously...

We have a brutal schedule, I do agree...If we start 2-2 I GUARANTEE we win 10 games.

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 10:34 AM
There is no hope for this year, they're not a team that's going to win in the playoffs.

Therefore, the only hope is for the future, and Huard is not the future.
You PLAY for now...

It's not going to hurt Croyle to sit another year.

Rivers EXCELLED after sitting for two years.

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 10:35 AM
It's Marty's fault that Lin missed three field goals in a 7-10 loss...

It's always this and that...shit happens...

I think Marty has been unlucky as opposed to not being a good coach.

The fumble, Lin Elliot, Nate Kaeding...I mean, come on...

No, it wasn't Marty's fault that Elliot missed the FG's. It was Marty's fault it was ever that close in the 1st place.

We had a good running game going in the first half, yet he decided to air it out after halftime. Bono threw 3 INT's and that was the game.

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 10:35 AM
That's my ****ing point...

They won't be friendly...if we're losing, every casual fan will be wondering why Croyle is starting instead of Huard...

Show the typical fan that we're not good (if that's the case) by starting the veteran who has EARNED that right...so when we start off miserably Croyle can enter the seen and either save our season, or get some snaps under his belt for 2008.


Huard didnt EARN anything this year... I could careless about last year.. We are rebuilding and getting younger. Huard needs to get healthy and win this starting position.... Simple as that Hootie...

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 10:36 AM
No, it wasn't Marty's fault that Elliot missed the FG's. It was Marty's fault it was ever that close in the 1st place.

We had a good running game going in the first half, yet he decided to air it out after halftime. Bono threw 3 INT's and that was the game.
I don't remember the specifics, I was too young...

I mean, I can be honest and all...

I didn't start watching every game religiously until I was 13 or 14...can't fault me for being young but I'm most definitely informed enough to have an opinion on the current state of the Chiefs.

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 10:37 AM
Why?

Our not nearly as good defense of 2006 played Peyton pretty decently in the postseason...

You're telling me we're not a better team THIS year with Damon at QB, Bowe at WR, Donnie/Napoleon/Pollard/Page on defense, a few new DT's etc... then we were last year, as a playoff team?

It's funny...everyone is ranking us near the bottom of the league because of our QB situation...but I can guarantee you this...we aren't any worse off at that position this year as we were last year with Trent 'I hold the ball WAY TOO long' Green....

So why won't we win 10 games this year? Seriously...

We have a brutal schedule, I do agree...If we start 2-2 I GUARANTEE we win 10 games.

I DO think we're better.

We're just not GOOD ENOUGH.

Why? Because we aren't good enough at the QB position. The only potential we have to upgrade is to develop Croyle.

And your whole reasoning behind starting Huard is because we're going to get shelled in the 1st four games. Even you don't think we're gonna go 2-2.

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 10:38 AM
You PLAY for now...

It's not going to hurt Croyle to sit another year.

Rivers EXCELLED after sitting for two years.

Actually, Rivers struggled in pressure situations last year because of a lack of experience...

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 10:39 AM
I DO think we're better.

We're just not GOOD ENOUGH.

Why? Because we aren't good enough at the QB position. The only potential we have to upgrade is to develop Croyle.

And your whole reasoning behind starting Huard is because we're going to get shelled in the 1st four games. Even you don't think we're gonna go 2-2.
You're right...

But if we do start 2-2, we're a playoff team...

We could even start 1-3 and then go on a tear with 7 of 9 @ Arrowhead...

I just think people are underestimating the Texans week 1...

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 10:39 AM
I don't remember the specifics, I was too young...

I mean, I can be honest and all...

I didn't start watching every game religiously until I was 13 or 14...can't fault me for being young but I'm most definitely informed enough to have an opinion on the current state of the Chiefs.

You're absolutely informed enough.

Your age is only of note because it helps to make light of the differences of opinion.

You're not NEARLY as jaded as some of us.

Sure-Oz
08-24-2007, 10:39 AM
omg huardEddd oooohhh

Donger
08-24-2007, 10:40 AM
This is a weird discussion. Does anyone think that Brodie doesn't have better skills than Damon? And, the only gripe against him is that he needs more experience?

If so, the logical conclusion is to get him that experience by playing.

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 10:40 AM
You're right...

But if we do start 2-2, we're a playoff team...

We could even start 1-3 and then go on a tear with 7 of 9 @ Arrowhead...

I just think people are underestimating the Texans week 1...

I think we could be a playoff team. I've said that all along. I've laughed at the people predicting 4 wins. It's ridiculous.

That being said, I've seen LOTS of playoff teams. They don't interest me at all anymore. I want to see an AFC CHAMPIONSHIP team.

Sure-Oz
08-24-2007, 10:41 AM
This is a weird discussion. Does anyone think that Brodie doesn't have better skills than Damon? And, the only gripe against him is that he needs more experience?

If so, the logical conclusion is to get him that experience by playing.
it makes too much sense doesn't it?

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 10:41 AM
Actually, Rivers struggled in pressure situations last year because of a lack of experience...


They put the ball in the hands of the playmakers and gave Rivers the tools to succeed.

Just like Herm will do with Croyle.. Lean on LJ, Bennett, TG, EK, Bowe.. Etc....

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 10:42 AM
You're absolutely informed enough.

Your age is only of note because it helps to make light of the differences of opinion.

You're not NEARLY as jaded as some of us.
I just don't see the thrill of drafting in the top 10...

all that means is I have to sit through a year of being pissed off every Sunday.

Come on, what's better than watching Lawrence Tynes nail a 53 yarder to win an important game on a Sunday afternoon!?

Seriously...

A Chiefs win is better than sex with a really, really, REALLY hot girl. Can anyone disagree with that?

Donger
08-24-2007, 10:43 AM
A Chiefs win is better than sex with a really, really, REALLY hot girl. Can anyone disagree with that?

Yes, unequivocally.

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 10:43 AM
This is a weird discussion. Does anyone think that Brodie doesn't have better skills than Damon? And, the only gripe against him is that he needs more experience?

If so, the logical conclusion is to get him that experience by playing.


but if he holds a clipboard for another year, watch teh savy vet, learn the ropes, he will be a better QB...

Dont you know our Savy experienced vet gives us the best chance of winning now?

HonestChieffan
08-24-2007, 10:44 AM
Clearly you have only experienced a Chiefs win....

Donger
08-24-2007, 10:44 AM
it makes too much sense doesn't it?

Some people seem to be making this far too complicated. I keep hoping that there's some kind of 'football stuff' that I'm missing, but I haven't seen it yet.

Short Leash Hootie
08-24-2007, 10:45 AM
They put the ball in the hands of the playmakers and gave Rivers the tools to succeed.

Just like Herm will do with Croyle.. Lean on LJ, Bennett, TG, EK, Bowe.. Etc....
The problem with Croyle is...

He's going to beat himself. He's going to throw that INT that wasn't necessary...he's made bonehead pass after bonehead pass this preseason.

I don't think Damon will do that...he's a better game manager.

PLUS...

When Damon was in doubt last year he'd dump it to LJ (who is insane in the open field) or heave it to Tony Gonzalez...when in doubt, hit your playmaker...something that Trent Green wouldn't do...

Trent Green was TOO good to be the Chiefs QB last year...Damon would throw it to Tony G even if he wasn't open...Trent had to make sure he was making the perfect throw or else he'd take a sack.

He was too used to having that line that allowed him to do a fake handoff, fake reverse, eat a sandwich screen pass...

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 10:45 AM
A Chiefs win is better than sex with a really, really, REALLY hot girl. Can anyone disagree with that?

dude I have turned the game off for serious sex with a hottie before.....


Thanks now for TIVO... I can pause the game, meet the smoking hawt wife for some fun and pick right back up where I left off...

Donger
08-24-2007, 10:45 AM
but if he holds a clipboard for another year, watch teh savy vet, learn the ropes, he will be a better QB...

Dont you know our Savy experienced vet gives us the best chance of winning now?

And, he'd be a year older still without any playing time/experience in regular season games.

Baby Lee
08-24-2007, 10:47 AM
We won in 1994 because of Joe, not Marty... Joe was still good enough to over come Marty....
That is such a tired line. Unless you have direct proof that Joe took all decision making out of the coaching staff's hands, the more accurate line is 'Joe was the QB good enough to execute Marty's game plan.'

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 10:48 AM
And, he'd be a year older still without any playing time/experience in regular season games.

And we would be going through this agian.....

Time for the Chiefs to man up, play with the big boys and build a championship team...

We have been never weres and pretenders for so long... Would be nice to be taken seriously for a change....

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 10:49 AM
That is such a tired line. Unless you have direct proof that Joe took all decision making out of the coaching staff's hands, the more accurate line is 'Joe was the QB good enough to execute Marty's game plan.'


:cuss: I just spit milk and fruit loops through my nose...

that is the best line I have ever heard... New sig line for me? Can I use it?

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 10:50 AM
I just don't see the thrill of drafting in the top 10...

all that means is I have to sit through a year of being pissed off every Sunday.

Come on, what's better than watching Lawrence Tynes nail a 53 yarder to win an important game on a Sunday afternoon!?

Seriously...

A Chiefs win is better than sex with a really, really, REALLY hot girl. Can anyone disagree with that?

There's only 2 things to hope for:

1) Croyle becomes a stud.

2) We draft in the top 10.

A win is not a win. At some point, we have to move beyond squeaking into the playoffs.

Otter
08-24-2007, 10:50 AM
The problem with Croyle is...

He's going to beat himself. He's going to throw that INT that wasn't necessary...he's made bonehead pass after bonehead pass this preseason.



Did I miss the season opener?

Baby Lee
08-24-2007, 10:51 AM
dude I have turned the game off for serious sex with a hottie before.....


Thanks now for TIVO... I can pause the game, meet the smoking hawt wife for some fun and pick right back up where I left off...
Gah!! Flashback!!

Remembering agreeing to tape the AFC championship [Chiefs/Bills] in favor of a 'romantic weekend' snuggled away with the GF.
Figured I could 'earmuff' until I got back home Sunday afternoon to watch it.
Then, on the way home, in the middle of nowhere NE MO, some effing bar had a sign, at what had to be like 15 minutes after the game was over 'Thanks for the Season Joe.'

MARTHAFOCKER!!!!!!

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 10:51 AM
The problem with Croyle is...

He's going to beat himself. He's going to throw that INT that wasn't necessary...he's made bonehead pass after bonehead pass this preseason.

I don't think Damon will do that...he's a better game manager.

PLUS...

When Damon was in doubt last year he'd dump it to LJ (who is insane in the open field) or heave it to Tony Gonzalez...when in doubt, hit your playmaker...something that Trent Green wouldn't do...

Trent Green was TOO good to be the Chiefs QB last year...Damon would throw it to Tony G even if he wasn't open...Trent had to make sure he was making the perfect throw or else he'd take a sack.

He was too used to having that line that allowed him to do a fake handoff, fake reverse, eat a sandwich screen pass...


its called growing pains Hootie.... It is a necessary evil to get better... You never get better if you dont try. Benching Croyle for Huard doesnt make this team better next year when Croyle is doing the same things in learning...

Basically we would be a one legged duck treading water... swimming like hell just to go in circles...

Big Picture, the Chiefs have looked at the Big Picture in years... Hopefully Herm is doing that...

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 10:52 AM
Gah!! Flashback!!

Remembering agreeing to tape the AFC championship [Chiefs/Bills] in favor of a 'romantic weekend' snuggled away with the GF.
Figured I could 'earmuff' until I got back home Sunday afternoon to watch it.
Then, on the way home, in the middle of nowhere NE MO, some effing bar had a sign, at what had to be like 15 minutes after the game was over 'Thanks for the Season Joe.'

MARTHAFOCKER!!!!!!


Man I sorry about that.... That would of pissed me off as well!

Was the weekend worth it?

Baby Lee
08-24-2007, 10:53 AM
:cuss: I just spit milk and fruit loops through my nose...

that is the best line I have ever heard... New sig line for me? Can I use it?
Absolutely, with attribution please.

I assume you have NO evidence that Joe and Marty were anything but in accord on the game plan.
I sure must've missed all that sideline footage of Marty chewing Joe out for scoring too many points and completing too many passes.

htismaqe
08-24-2007, 10:54 AM
The problem with Croyle is...

He's going to beat himself. He's going to throw that INT that wasn't necessary...he's made bonehead pass after bonehead pass this preseason.

I don't think Damon will do that...he's a better game manager.

PLUS...

When Damon was in doubt last year he'd dump it to LJ (who is insane in the open field) or heave it to Tony Gonzalez...when in doubt, hit your playmaker...something that Trent Green wouldn't do...

Trent Green was TOO good to be the Chiefs QB last year...Damon would throw it to Tony G even if he wasn't open...Trent had to make sure he was making the perfect throw or else he'd take a sack.

He was too used to having that line that allowed him to do a fake handoff, fake reverse, eat a sandwich screen pass...

Croyle is fighting for a job. He's young, he knows he's talented, and he's pressing.

I GUARANTEE that if Herman Edwards had named him the starter at the end of last season, you would have seen him throwing those same dump-off passes this preseason...

Donger
08-24-2007, 10:54 AM
A question, fellas: how much improvement (if any) will re-introducing Larry Johnson afford the offensive? Does his coming into the game benefit one QB over the other?

Cochise
08-24-2007, 10:57 AM
Tell me something Hootie.

You keep saying that Croyle is going to be ruined if he doesn't have a winning season. What exactly do you base this on ?

Peyton Manning's first year.

Oh wait, the Colts went 3-13 that year.

Inspector
08-24-2007, 10:59 AM
Hard to find any bright spots ...

The stadium lights?

Baby Lee
08-24-2007, 11:00 AM
First-year Cowboys coach Jimmy Johnson decided not to slowly develop Aikman, instead throwing him to the wolves immediately. He stumbled to an 0-11 record (155 of 293 for 1,749 yards, 9 TDs, 18 INTs) as the starter his rookie season while Cowboys went 1-15.

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 11:01 AM
Absolutely, with attribution please.

I assume you have NO evidence that Joe and Marty were anything but in accord on the game plan.
I sure must've missed all that sideline footage of Marty chewing Joe out for scoring too many points and completing too many passes.


he he ROFL

Call it what you want... But Marty is Marty and Marty has no business in the playoffs...

Thanks but no thanks... you can keep Marty and his memories.

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 11:02 AM
yeah but Troy Aikman was ruined for life....

Baby Lee
08-24-2007, 11:04 AM
yeah but Troy Aikman was ruined for life....
I was amazed when, in all those losses, the likes of Madden was still pimping the potential he saw in the squad. Turned out he was right.

Looking forward to something similar developing here.

Inspector
08-24-2007, 11:06 AM
Which is what?


The dude cant even play, he has a bobo on his calf right now...

I think you made a boo-boo in your terminology. I think.

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 11:07 AM
I think you made a boo-boo in your terminology. I think.


Yeah I know was unsure about that one...

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 11:08 AM
I was amazed when, in all those losses, the likes of Madden was still pimping the potential he saw in the squad. Turned out he was right.

Looking forward to something similar developing here.


i would exchange a 1-15 season for a run like Dallas put on in the Mid 90's.....

dirk digler
08-24-2007, 11:10 AM
I was amazed when, in all those losses, the likes of Madden was still pimping the potential he saw in the squad. Turned out he was right.

Looking forward to something similar developing here.

Ain't going to happen here because we have NO ONE that can develop a QB.

Norv Turner was the O-coordinator for the Cowboys.

Cochise
08-24-2007, 11:16 AM
i would exchange a 1-15 season for a run like Dallas put on in the Mid 90's.....

Not Pootie. He would trade all of that to get bounced from a wild card game this year.

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 11:17 AM
Not Pootie. He would trade all of that to get bounced from a wild card game this year.


Well that comes with age.. When you are young, do you ever plan or think about your future?

he is thinking short term, where we are thinking long term...

Donger
08-24-2007, 11:18 AM
A question, fellas: how much improvement (if any) will re-introducing Larry Johnson afford the offensive? Does his coming into the game benefit one QB over the other?

Ahem!

Inspector
08-24-2007, 11:19 AM
I'm not going to go search for quotes like you do...I'm not THAT gay.

So that's what those gays do...........

Cochise
08-24-2007, 11:24 AM
Well that comes with age.. When you are young, do you ever plan or think about your future?

he is thinking short term, where we are thinking long term...

I started watching the Chiefs when I was about 10 years old (1989 approx). Marty and his act was all I ever knew. I don't think making the playoffs is the goal anymore. Winning a championship is the goal.

I don't think 'growing up' in that era makes you not understand it. I grew out of thinking that.

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 11:29 AM
I started watching the Chiefs when I was about 10 years old (1989 approx). Marty and his act was all I ever knew. I don't think making the playoffs is the goal anymore. Winning a championship is the goal.

I don't think 'growing up' in that era makes you not understand it. I grew out of thinking that.


Agreed, I started following the Chiefs in 1987-88ish.. Marty was all I ever knew as well..

But once you see people like Johnson, Belicheck, Parcells, etc.. it makes you realize that there are better ways to build a championship...

I want what the patriots have.. I want a coach that wants to win and deny's conventional football to do just that...

Otter
08-24-2007, 12:02 PM
The dude cant even play, he has a bobo on his calf right now...

Huard has a generic sneaker stuck to his calf!?!?

This thread is worthless w/o pics.

El Jefe
08-24-2007, 12:03 PM
With this offensive line, playing Brodie this year could ruin him. Tough call.


I tend to agree, do you let him play and get his lumps (ala David Carr), or do you let him sit again, and watch and let us get him some more help on the OL. Remeber IIRC Carson Palmer didnt even start till mid way through his second year. It wouldnt kill him to watch again, but it could kill him when Merriman is laying on top of him for the 5th time in the game.






*Look what happened to David Carr, also names like Joey Harrington, and almost every QB who has recently played for the Browns. Croyle needs someone to block for him and give him a little time.

Otter
08-24-2007, 12:17 PM
Ahem!

All speculation of course but it should force the defenses to be more reactive instead of attacking the backfield right away - especially given LJs breakaway speed.

A healthy McIntosh and ready LJ together should be a considerable upgrade for holding off some pressure on Croyle however.

Chris Meck
08-24-2007, 01:01 PM
I don't believe Brody played badly.

I think Svitek got schooled, beat play after play, series after series.

I think that when Brody did get an actual pass off to a receiver, they more often than not dropped it.

Nobody was going to do much at QB last night, not with that blocking. Huard wouldn't have looked any better.

I see no reason at all to start Huard. None. He's not going to win anymore games than Brody, IMO. Huard's not nearly as mobile, and really isn't any better at handling pressure. Anybody remember the fumbles?


You're not going to ruin Brody. He's been to this movie already at 'Bama.

Of course, when McIntosh comes back, that'll make a BIG difference over Svitek who wasn't even slowing Will Smith down.

We also haven't had LJ yet; that'll make some difference in defenses' just pinning their ears back.

GarySpFc
08-24-2007, 04:40 PM
Start Huard, be a potential playoff team, lose in the first or second round, set the Chiefs back a year or two while Croyle LEARNS how to be an NFL QB...


You obviously believe in fairy tales, because Huard is not taking us to the playoffs.

GarySpFc
08-24-2007, 04:45 PM
I don't believe Brody played badly.

I think Svitek got schooled, beat play after play, series after series.

I think that when Brody did get an actual pass off to a receiver, they more often than not dropped it.

Correct! I went back and looked at the game 2 more times. Brodie did not play badly. Our receivers have stones for hands.. Heck, Trent Green would have had trouble with the holes in our line. It looked more like the open border between Mexico and America than a offensive line.

BigMeatballDave
08-24-2007, 05:31 PM
The problem with Croyle is...

He's going to beat himself. He's going to throw that INT that wasn't necessary...he's made bonehead pass after bonehead pass this preseason.

I don't think Damon will do that...he's a better game manager.

PLUS...

When Damon was in doubt last year he'd dump it to LJ (who is insane in the open field) or heave it to Tony Gonzalez...when in doubt, hit your playmaker...something that Trent Green wouldn't do...

Trent Green was TOO good to be the Chiefs QB last year...Damon would throw it to Tony G even if he wasn't open...Trent had to make sure he was making the perfect throw or else he'd take a sack.

He was too used to having that line that allowed him to do a fake handoff, fake reverse, eat a sandwich screen pass...If you actually believe this, then you are truely retarded, and should never comment on football again...

Coach
08-24-2007, 06:11 PM
The problem with Croyle is...

He's going to beat himself. He's going to throw that INT that wasn't necessary...he's made bonehead pass after bonehead pass this preseason.

I don't think Damon will do that...he's a better game manager.

PLUS...

When Damon was in doubt last year he'd dump it to LJ (who is insane in the open field) or heave it to Tony Gonzalez...when in doubt, hit your playmaker...something that Trent Green wouldn't do...

Trent Green was TOO good to be the Chiefs QB last year...Damon would throw it to Tony G even if he wasn't open...Trent had to make sure he was making the perfect throw or else he'd take a sack.

He was too used to having that line that allowed him to do a fake handoff, fake reverse, eat a sandwich screen pass...

I don't have Brodie on a pedestal, I just think blowing a guy up because he had a piss poor preseason game behind an O-line that can't block my ****ing grandma and a WR corps that can't catch a cold (Did they take a class taught by Johnnie Morton?), who has also never even started a regular season contest, is a bit premature.

This is the kind of crap that cause the Chargers to spend a #1 pick on a QB when Drew Brees wasn't turning the corner. The REASON was because their line wasn't blocking and their recievers weren't catching (the reason for the million passes LT was catching) They reshuffle the O-line and provided him protection, Gates emurged, and suddenly (and coincidentally I suppose) Brees was suddenly good! I'm sure the Saints appreciated having him though.

I'm not saying Brodie is the answer at QB, but the least the Chiefs can do is put him in a situation he can be PROPERLY evaluated. The guy faced constant pressure, and regardless, this isn't a snap to snap thing. When a QB is getting his brains bashed in an entire game, it's gonna **** him up mentally. He'll start looking at the rush, and making his reads late. Matter of fact, I think that happened last night. It's not an excuse, it is what it is.

Evaluating a guy as the best QB on the team because he's played decent against guy who won't be on an NFL roster this year seems a bit slanted.

Fans always scapegoat a QB first when there's offensive line problems, and it ****ing annoys me. The only reason Huard looks better is because he didn't even play last night. Will Smith ate Svitek's lunch. When you can't trust your blindside blocker, good luck getting confident in the pocket.

I'm not saying he's played well, but the only QB who's played decently is the one who's playing against guys who'll be working at McDonalds in another 3 weeks. You cannot trust QB performances that late in preseason games. The guy was 3/7 for 16 yards last week against Backups when he moved up the chart in Damon's absence.

Lastly, Huard fumbled the ball 56% of the time he was sacked last year. So I guess with Quarterbacks it doesn't matter how many turnovers you have so long as they are not interceptions. If Huard starts, he will set an NFL record for fumbles.

OnTheWarpath58
08-24-2007, 06:15 PM
I don't have Brodie on a pedestal, I just think blowing a guy up because he had a piss poor preseason game behind an O-line that can't block my ****ing grandma and a WR corps that can't catch a cold (Did they take a class taught by Johnnie Morton?), who has also never even started a regular season contest, is a bit premature.

This is the kind of crap that cause the Chargers to spend a #1 pick on a QB when Drew Brees wasn't turning the corner. The REASON was because their line wasn't blocking and their recievers weren't catching (the reason for the million passes LT was catching) They reshuffle the O-line and provided him protection, Gates emurged, and suddenly (and coincidentally I suppose) Brees was suddenly good! I'm sure the Saints appreciated having him though.

I'm not saying Brodie is the answer at QB, but the least the Chiefs can do is put him in a situation he can be PROPERLY evaluated. The guy faced constant pressure, and regardless, this isn't a snap to snap thing. When a QB is getting his brains bashed in an entire game, it's gonna **** him up mentally. He'll start looking at the rush, and making his reads late. Matter of fact, I think that happened last night. It's not an excuse, it is what it is.

Evaluating a guy as the best QB on the team because he's played decent against guy who won't be on an NFL roster this year seems a bit slanted.

Fans always scapegoat a QB first when there's offensive line problems, and it ****ing annoys me. The only reason Huard looks better is because he didn't even play last night. Will Smith ate Svitek's lunch. When you can't trust your blindside blocker, good luck getting confident in the pocket.

I'm not saying he's played well, but the only QB who's played decently is the one who's playing against guys who'll be working at McDonalds in another 3 weeks. You cannot trust QB performances that late in preseason games. The guy was 3/7 for 16 yards last week against Backups when he moved up the chart in Damon's absence.

Lastly, Huard fumbled the ball 56% of the time he was sacked last year. So I guess with Quarterbacks it doesn't matter how many turnovers you have so long as they are not interceptions. If Huard starts, he will set an NFL record for fumbles.


:clap: :clap:

Excellent post, Coach.

OctoberFart
08-24-2007, 08:32 PM
Sorry I guess Croyle isn't a top 5 QB as the River Falls reports had me thinking he was.

Reerun_KC
08-24-2007, 09:11 PM
I don't have Brodie on a pedestal, I just think blowing a guy up because he had a piss poor preseason game behind an O-line that can't block my ****ing grandma and a WR corps that can't catch a cold (Did they take a class taught by Johnnie Morton?), who has also never even started a regular season contest, is a bit premature.

This is the kind of crap that cause the Chargers to spend a #1 pick on a QB when Drew Brees wasn't turning the corner. The REASON was because their line wasn't blocking and their recievers weren't catching (the reason for the million passes LT was catching) They reshuffle the O-line and provided him protection, Gates emurged, and suddenly (and coincidentally I suppose) Brees was suddenly good! I'm sure the Saints appreciated having him though.

I'm not saying Brodie is the answer at QB, but the least the Chiefs can do is put him in a situation he can be PROPERLY evaluated. The guy faced constant pressure, and regardless, this isn't a snap to snap thing. When a QB is getting his brains bashed in an entire game, it's gonna **** him up mentally. He'll start looking at the rush, and making his reads late. Matter of fact, I think that happened last night. It's not an excuse, it is what it is.

Evaluating a guy as the best QB on the team because he's played decent against guy who won't be on an NFL roster this year seems a bit slanted.

Fans always scapegoat a QB first when there's offensive line problems, and it ****ing annoys me. The only reason Huard looks better is because he didn't even play last night. Will Smith ate Svitek's lunch. When you can't trust your blindside blocker, good luck getting confident in the pocket.

I'm not saying he's played well, but the only QB who's played decently is the one who's playing against guys who'll be working at McDonalds in another 3 weeks. You cannot trust QB performances that late in preseason games. The guy was 3/7 for 16 yards last week against Backups when he moved up the chart in Damon's absence.

Lastly, Huard fumbled the ball 56% of the time he was sacked last year. So I guess with Quarterbacks it doesn't matter how many turnovers you have so long as they are not interceptions. If Huard starts, he will set an NFL record for fumbles.


yeah what he said....

Nice job coach...

milkman
08-25-2007, 08:21 AM
Thats a good question about Huard not testing the FA market. I dont know why he didnt. Maybe he saw that trent was going to be traded or released and huard thought he would be starter and didnt see the point of leaving an offense that he is comfortable with.

I've referenced this a few time here.

Charlie Casserly on one of the NFL pregame shows last season was talking about Huard and said that the GMs that he'd talked to around the league didn't veiw Huard as a starter.

They thought he was/is a valuable backup type, but that his talent limits what offenses can do.

htismaqe
08-25-2007, 08:35 AM
I've referenced this a few time here.

Charlie Casserly on one of the NFL pregame shows last season was talking about Huard and said that the GMs that he'd talked to around the league didn't veiw Huard as a starter.

They thought he was/is a valuable backup type, but that his talent limits what offenses can do.

More importantly, DAMON HUARD didn't view Damon Huard as a starter.

milkman
08-25-2007, 08:48 AM
I'd say he's ruined...

The guy was sacked because he couldn't get rid of the ball...and he can't read defenses...

It's awful. He's a one read guy...if his first read isn't open, he's done.

He isn't any good, and he'll never be any good. People think he's the answer in Carolina once they bench Delhomme, but he won't be...

He's awful.

David Carr wasn't ruined.

He was never as good as his draft position.

He never learned to read defenses, and his college scouting reports stated that he held the ball for too long, a problem that he never corrected.

If you buy something that's already defective, then you can't ruin it.

Reerun_KC
08-25-2007, 08:57 AM
I've referenced this a few time here.

Charlie Casserly on one of the NFL pregame shows last season was talking about Huard and said that the GMs that he'd talked to around the league didn't veiw Huard as a starter.

They thought he was/is a valuable backup type, but that his talent limits what offenses can do.


Hence signing early with the Chiefs before his value diminished on the open market!

htismaqe
08-25-2007, 09:00 AM
David Carr wasn't ruined.

He was never as good as his draft position.

He never learned to read defenses, and his college scouting reports stated that he held the ball for too long, a problem that he never corrected.

If you buy something that's already defective, then you can't ruin it.

See also post 133. :D

milkman
08-25-2007, 09:01 AM
More importantly, DAMON HUARD didn't view Damon Huard as a starter.

That's true.

But the point is that even though he didn't test the FA waters, he and his agent had to already know that is how he was looked at around the league, and it made the decision to sign with KC an easy one.

htismaqe
08-25-2007, 09:07 AM
That's true.

But the point is that even though he didn't test the FA waters, he and his agent had to already know that is how he was looked at around the league, and it made the decision to sign with KC an easy one.

Right, that's my point.

His agent talked to several GM's and found out that NOBODY looked at him as a starter. Instead of FIGHTING for it, he gave up and signed a backup's contract.

Tells you ALOT about Damon Huard.

Buehler445
08-25-2007, 10:32 AM
Show me a starting QB who played three quarters in a preseason game and compiled a QB rating less than 15.

Grossman had a 1 IN A REAL GAME. I know there is a difference, but it should absolutely play in Croyle's favor.

BigMeatballDave
08-25-2007, 10:41 AM
Give me a 9-7 season before a 6-10 season every year and I'll be content. Jesus H. Christ. This may be the dumbest comment ever submitted on the Planet. :rolleyes: :shake:

runnercyclist
08-25-2007, 11:17 AM
Croyle Under Fire (http://chiefs.scout.com/2/671604.html)

Croyle’s quarterback rating was 15.1.


15.1 ?

I saw the game. That sounds high.





Yes, start Croyle. Take our lumps. But GAMEPLAN for a first year QB with a so-so offensive line.

My greatest fear is we repeat the Indy game plan all year. Turn and hand to 27 on every play. That won't work even if you do have the best RB in the game.

Reerun_KC
08-25-2007, 11:30 AM
My greatest fear is we repeat the Indy game plan all year. Turn and hand to 27 on every play. That won't work even if you do have the best RB in the game.


Dont tell Herm that.... We cant ruin our HCOTF....