We the People are Failing- Truth is our Government Sucks Baows For Now!!!

[CRONUS]

It is not just the Republican, nor just the Democrats, or even god forbid anyone badmouth them but the Gestapo in the White House, but the whole lot of them.

Chagrin is unhappy there is not enough negativism towards the Democrats, well I ask you where is the proper negatism supposed to halt? Why should it begin and end with just one party or one branch of government?

Seriously folks, get real, look around they are all failing and the people that elect them are failing as well. This country is foundering and it is the fault of We the People.

[mlyonsd]

Seriously folks, get real, look around they are all failing and the people that elect them are failing as well. This country is foundering and it is the fault of We the People.

Term limits man, term limits. Until government offices are looked at as ways to make a difference instead of long term pensions and getting your face on national Sunday network news we the people will continue to suffer.

[Laz]

and finance reform ... as long as special interest groups can buy votes thing aren't likely to change.

[CHIEF4EVER]

I posted a thread of this ilk a couple of months ago Jim (during the Immigration Reform Fiasco) and I agree with you. We all came together and influenced legislation on that issue but yet we fail to come together on ALL important legislation and take enough interest to influence it. It is due to the apathy of the electorate and nothing will change until We The People change that attitude.

[Adam]

"We the people" is absolutely right. Far and away the most depressing thing I see on T.V. is when they go and poll people on the street about basic historical or government facts, like who was the first president, or who fought in the Civil and Revolutionary wars, or who the Vice President of the United States is. Most people act like they are getting handed a Calculus test, and it's perfectly acceptable to not know, cause hey, what kind of an egghead does?

People get the government they deserve.

[Jenson71]

"We the people" is absolutely right. Far and away the most depressing thing I see on T.V. is when they go and poll people on the street about basic historical or government facts, like who was the first president, or who fought in the Civil and Revolutionary wars, or who the Vice President of the United States is. Most people act like they are getting handed a Calculus test, and it's perfectly acceptable to not know, cause hey, what kind of an egghead does?

People get the government they deserve.

Usually, those people don't vote. Which is fine by me.

[mlyonsd]

One othe thing...I think Pete should be the only one on the planet to use the term "Such Baows". It just doesn't sound right coming from you Jim.

[BucEyedPea]

* cue to fife and drums*

Time to dust this off and take out of its casing in DC and add new signatures.
If I had time I could make a modern one with same words and circle around the net. LOL! Come guys sign...I added space in PS!! Come on guys sign...

[CRONUS]

One othe thing...I think Pete should be the only one on the planet to use the term "Such Baows". It just doesn't sound right coming from you Jim.LOL he is going to kick your ass for using his name next time he sees you. ;)

But I know what you mean.

[patteeu]

I agree that we have a large group of citizens failing our country right now. You know who I'm talking about.

[CRONUS]

* cue to fife and drums*

Time to dust this off and take out of its casing in DC and add new signatures.
If I had time I could make a modern one with same words and circle around the net. LOL! Come guys sign...I added space in PS!! Come on guys sign...


Actually that is a sweet Photoshop, how did you do it?

[CRONUS]

I agree that we have a large group of citizens failing our country right now. You know who I'm talking about.

It is not just one interest group that is failing our country pat

[patteeu]

It is not just one interest group that is failing our country pat

Stand up on the rooftops and shout, "I blame America!!!!" and I'm sure you'll feel liberated.

[CRONUS]

Stand up on the rooftops and shout, "I blame America!!!!" and I'm sure you'll feel liberated.

Does it make you feel better to try to squelch dissent? Is that your point? If so perhaps you might be interested in becoming a member of the CIA, they work on it worldwide. Of course that is only in the interests of our freedom here at home.;)

[CHIEF4EVER]

Stand up on the rooftops and shout, "I blame America!!!!" and I'm sure you'll feel liberated.[all together now] Sieg! HEIL! Sieg! HEIL![/together] Honestly bro, I have always held you for being lucid. How is dissent with the way things are being done "blaming America?".

To make my point:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I thought you believed in this and supported it. Was I mistaken?

BTW, Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr was a complete DOUCHEBAG. Just thought I'd point that out.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Stand up on the rooftops and shout, "I blame America!!!!" and I'm sure you'll feel liberated.Aren't you the guy that blames America for not supporting the war? Perhaps misery needs company. Make room at the kids table or something.

[patteeu]

Does it make you feel better to try to squelch dissent? Is that your point? If so perhaps you might be interested in becoming a member of the CIA, they work on it worldwide. Of course that is only in the interests of our freedom here at home.;)

This thread is literally a blame America thread, all of America (as in We the People). There's no denying that. I'm just pointing it out.

[SNR]

* cue to fife and drums*

Time to dust this off and take out of its casing in DC and add new signatures.
If I had time I could make a modern one with same words and circle around the net. LOL! Come guys sign...I added space in PS!! Come on guys sign...Coming in January 2009...

National Treasure 3

[CRONUS]

This thread is literally a blame America thread, all of America (as in We the People). There's no denying that. I'm just pointing it out.

Well gee, then I guess I should be thanking you for the support.

[CHIEF4EVER]

This thread is literally a blame America thread, all of America (as in We the People). There's no denying that. I'm just pointing it out.

I would say it is more of a 'Blame the Sovreigns' thread. WE are the sovreigns Pat, but Capitol Hill has forgotten that because WE have forgotten it through our own apathy. If you are content to march to the beat of your party drum....so be it. You are free to do so. I am more open minded and analytical when it concerns what I am voting for.

[patteeu]

[all together now] Sieg! HEIL! Sieg! HEIL![/together] Honestly bro, I have always held you for being lucid. How is dissent with the way things are being done "blaming America?".

Sometime after you've had a little more time to exercise your new chops, it might be fun to create a thread consisting only of your quotes. The new you could argue with the old you. It would be a hoot.

As for this thread, I honestly don't know what foolish notion you have in your head. When someone says they blame "we the people" for something,* I take them at face value and assum they are, in fact, blaming we the people. "We the people" are America, bro.


------
* What that "something" is in this case is not altogether clear to me, but that isn't particularly important for the point I'm making.

To make my point:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I thought you believed in this and supported it. Was I mistaken?

BTW, Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr was a complete DOUCHEBAG. Just thought I'd point that out.

Yes you are mistaken, but probably not in the way you have in mind. Even if I was forcibly preventing anyone from saying what they want to say, which I'm not, the constitution wouldn't have any relevance because I'm not the government.

[patteeu]

Aren't you the guy that blames America for not supporting the war? Perhaps misery needs company. Make room at the kids table or something.

You may have missed it, but earlier in the thread I addressed this:

I agree that we have a large group of citizens failing our country right now. You know who I'm talking about.

So as you can see, unlike Logical, I'm blaming only a portion of America. But in case you worry that I forgot about you, that portion is not exclusively made up of democrats.

[patteeu]

I would say it is more of a 'Blame the Sovreigns' thread. WE are the sovreigns Pat, but Capitol Hill has forgotten that because WE have forgotten it through our own apathy. If you are content to march to the beat of your party drum....so be it. You are free to do so. I am more open minded and analytical when it concerns what I am voting for.

I guess you'd have to be pretty open minded to flip flop the way you have. Sometimes people might use the term "unprincipled" instead of "open minded" but that's just nit picking. Congratulations on your "analytical" capabilities.

[CHIEF4EVER]

Sometime after you've had a little more time to exercise your new chops, it might be fun to create a thread consisting only of your quotes. The new you could argue with the old you. It would be a hoot.
What new chops? If that is an insult intended to get a rise, you are going to have to do better than that. I didn't suddenly become a Liberal. I am still a conservative, just have a different opinion than you on the job our current administration is doing (who I voted for BTW).As for this thread, I honestly don't know what foolish notion you have in your head. When someone says they blame "we the people" for something,* I take them at face value and assume they are, in fact, blaming we the people. "We the people" are America, bro.
That's right, and when the majority of our fellow countrymen get SO APATHETIC that they can't even spare the time to find out what is happening (which affects them directly) and then have the nerve to bitch about it. they have no legitimate grievance and only themselves to blame. THAT is my point.

[CHIEF4EVER]

I guess you'd have to be pretty open minded to flip flop the way you have. Sometimes people might use the term "unprincipled" instead of "open minded" but that's just nit picking. Congratulations on your "analytical" capabilities.

LMAO

So, I changed my mind on how the administration is carrying out foreign policy in Iraq and that makes me a flip flopper. LMAO

Next time you take a piss and don't stand while doing so, let us know how much of a 'flip flopper' you are Mr. Goebbels.

[StcChief]

Vote 'em all out would be the best message America could send to Washington DC

[CRONUS]

...

Yes you are mistaken, but probably not in the way you have in mind. Even if I was forcibly preventing anyone from saying what they want to say, which I'm not, the constitution wouldn't have any relevance because I'm not the government.


It worries me that you do not realize you are the government patteeu.

[patteeu]

It worries me that you do not realize you are the government patteeu.

It worries me that you think I am.

[penchief]

I agree that we have a large group of citizens failing our country right now. You know who I'm talking about.

I used to take you seriously but when somebody said that they thought you sounded like Steven Colbert, I finally got it. Now, when I read your schtick to the rhythm and sound of Colbert's voice, the parody of your positions is so obvious. I have to give you credit for being so brilliantly facecious without my picking up on it before now.

[CRONUS]

It worries me that you think I am.You really should read the Constitution and the other documents are country was founded upon.

[patteeu]

You really should read the Constitution and the other documents are country was founded upon.

That's rich.

[BucEyedPea]

Actually that is a sweet Photoshop, how did you do it?
with Photoshop!

[BucEyedPea]

pat, the govt is not the people anymore.
And it's certain politicians, prior to now even, that are responsible for our foreign policy...so that's not the people either. So it's not a blame America because it's not the people anymore. It's govt. Gov't fuggs things up!

[CRONUS]

with Photoshop!No I am wondering how you got the digital signature you used.:p

[CRONUS]

pat, the govt is not the people anymore.
And it's certain politicians, prior to now even, that are responsible for our foreign policy...so that's not the people either. So it's not a blame America because it's not the people anymore. It's govt. Gov't fuggs things up!

If you really believe this, then why all the preaching about Ron Paul and libertarian philosophy, after all it is too late we can never fix anything.

[BucEyedPea]

It's a font I have on my system. And I just used the type feature in Photoshop was all.

Got the doc from the National Archives site. Downloaded it. Took it in PS, gave it more contrast, cloned the bottom section, recropped and typed in my moniker in that font which is called "Zapfino". There's another font called Declaration from Veer that looks even more, or exactly like that old script. I may buy it.

[Mr. Kotter]

Logical...if you are gonna publicly suck boaws, it would be "proper" for you to exit the closet first.

JMHO.

Have a nice nite, Jim.

;)

[BucEyedPea]

If you really believe this, then why all the preaching about Ron Paul and libertarian philosophy, after all it is too late we can never fix anything.
I don't get that outta my post at all. Again, I'm not a libertarian. I'm a paleo-conservative which is close to that. I don't think it means nothing can be fixed, particularly if Paul's elected. I think his views on when to intervene are much closer to the people's especially right now.

[CRONUS]

Logical...if you are gonna publicly suck boaws, it would be "proper" for you to exit the closet first.

JMHO.

Have a nice nite, Jim.

;)

OK I will admit I laughed Rob.

[CRONUS]

I don't get that outta my post at all. Again, I'm not a libertarian. I'm a paleo-conservative which is close to that. I don't think it means nothing can be fixed, particularly if Paul's elected. I think his views on when to intervene are much closer to the people's especially right now.

So fill me in, just exactly how can the government be the fix if the government is the problem?

[Mr. Kotter]

OK I will admit I laughed Rob.


Heh. :toast:

[Adam]

So fill me in, just exactly how can the government be the fix if the government is the problem?

Government isn't the problem. Big government is. To borrow a term from Ron Paul, the "Warfare/Welfare" state is the problem. Ignoring the problem and letting big government neo-cons and Democrats keep growing the beast isn't going to make the problem go away. The answer is to adhere to our republic and elect honest leaders with conservative ideals who want to uphold the Constitution.

[GoBobDole]

I agree that we have a large group of citizens failing our country right now. You know who I'm talking about.

The marching morons?

The system is destined to fail. Bob Dole's only hope was that it would wait until he was gone.

[HolyHandgernade]

Personally, I think we are in need of some major civic and economic shifts. These shifts occur throughout history, usually with violent results, though I don't think the next one has to be. The United States was founded on one of these monumental shifts.

Each system, in and of itself, is not good or evil. It simply comes to a point where it can no longer serve the new dilemas of the day that simply were not even conceived in years past. In economics, this usually occurs when a useful system begins to become monopolized and exploited by a smaller portion of a society. Pure capitalism, (yes, I'm aware it doesn't really exist in our country) is sabatoged by hoarding. Those that hoard control the media, the lawmaking, and the civic agenda to a dispotionate extreme.

Now, people are in a Catch-22. Lots of people invest in big corporations, derrive some of their income from that, and therefore elect (or support) people who keep the corporation profitable to reap that reward. But, keeping the companies profitable may actually work against their own self-interest in other areas of their life that actually keep them imprisoned in their situation. (For most people, that means living in a large amount of debt).

Big corporations lobby their politicians to sell laws to the people that limit their own ability to sue to a manageable number for corporations, thus negating the only real threat a private person has. They say, that if we do this, it'll keep our health and auto costs down. Yet, our benefits contiune to get cut and our premiums continue to rise. Its like the shoe salesman who says these golf shoes will take five strokes off your game. When you bring them back and claim they didn't, he simply replies, imagine how much worse your game would have gotten if you hadn't got those shoes!

IMO, hoarding is the economic and civic probelm we have to figure a way out of. I'm not suggesting we put a cap on what corporations or anyone else can achieve. But, I think a shift of policy in rewarding such entities that attempt to redistribute a portion of their wealth would help ease a transition to a healthier society. It would require a values shift where the extent of your philanthropic reach means more than your position on Forbes 500. Until our values change from almost total allegiance of a monetary measure, I really don't see how this system will get better. Most Americans are more willing to yell at each other (preferrably anonymously) than really get involved. I guess I'd have to add apathy to hoarding to really summerize the current situation.

-HH

[CRONUS]

HH

Thanks for your very thoughtful and complete response.

[banyon]

HH

Thanks for your very thoughtful and complete response.


Definitely.

[Chief Henry]Rep for yoo, HolyHandGernade![/Chief Henry]

[HolyHandgernade]

Thanks. Part of the problem is that corporations are regarded as legal persons, but they have few of the responsibilities and needs of actual persons. They have no need for empathy, family, food, commuting, etc. If we were able to create a system of artifical approximations for corporations, we might be able to find a system that makes the whole industry...more human.

-HH

[Adept Havelock]

Part of the problem is that corporations are regarded as legal persons, but they have few of the responsibilities and needs of actual persons.
-HH


There's a reason the founding fathers didn't give Corporations the rights of legal persons. They'd seen enough with the likes of the East India company and other British corps, IMO.

Again, thanks for the response.

[BIG_DADDY]

We turn on each other over subjects that are important to us like gun control, abortion, taxes and the war in Iraq. In the meantime the politicians go wild and do what they want knowing they still have a following because of those issues. IMO the media controls the population and it will remain that way as long as there is steak on the table. The illusion is that we have any control at all.

[HolyHandgernade]

The illusion is that we have any control at all.

Actually, I think it is the opposite. We either don't realize or don't want to assume that control at all. Its easier to be slightly comfortable and apathetic. Its hard to assume control, most people don't want to. In fact, I think I fall into that category more often than not.

-HH

[penchief]

Actually, I think it is the opposite. We either don't realize or don't want to assume that control at all. Its easier to be slightly comfortable and apathetic. Its hard to assume control, most people don't want to. In fact, I think I fall into that category more often than not.

-HH

Instead it's much simpler to believe that Rudy is going to protect us from the evil-doers.

[CRONUS]

We turn on each other over subjects that are important to us like gun control, abortion, taxes and the war in Iraq. In the meantime the politicians go wild and do what they want knowing they still have a following because of those issues. IMO the media controls the population and it will remain that way as long as there is steak on the table. The illusion is that we have any control at all.

No Troy, the illusion is that we don't have the control and just have to accept our fates. The politicians are pulling off a scam on the American people to benefit themselves and their benefactors.

[BIG_DADDY]

No Troy, the illusion is that we don't have the control and just have to accept our fates. The politicians are pulling off a scam on the American people to benefit themselves and their benefactors.


Big Money has always taken care of itself. Bush has just been more aggressive and blatant about it.


It's my belief that we are just one major terrorist attack away from a military government. I also think this is the same path we will go down if the powers that be in this country ever feel they may lose control.

Actually, I think it is the opposite. We either don't realize or don't want to assume that control at all. Its easier to be slightly comfortable and apathetic. Its hard to assume control, most people don't want to. In fact, I think I fall into that category more often than not.

-HH

Bottom line is as long as there is steak on the table nobody is going to do shit. What can you do as an individual at this point? Not a damn thing until the climate is appropriate to do so. That's not going to happen until we have major financial issues in this country and even then it will be extremely hard. It's not like you don't want to make a difference it's just at this point you know you will just be spinning your tires.

[penchief]

Big Money has always taken care of itself. Bush has just been more aggressive and blatant about it.


It's my belief that we are just one major terrorist attack away from a military government. I also think this is the same path we will go down if the powers that be in this country ever feel they may lose control.



Bottom line is as long as there is steak on the table nobody is going to do shit. What can you do as an individual at this point? Not a damn thing until the climate is appropriate to do so. That's not going to happen until we have major financial issues in this country and even then it will be extremely hard. It's not like you don't want to make a difference it's just at this point you know you will just be spinning your tires.

I think we can still take to the streets. Much of what this administration has tried to do is limit that approach but just like everything else they try to do, they don't quite get it. And that will eventually work against them, IMO.

This administration has always thought that the American people are stupid and lazy. To a certain degree they have been correct. But I am a believer that they have seriously miscalculated the depths of our apathy and our stupidity.

They have overreached more than they ever should have been allowed to do. But I believe it will only take one incident in which the people of America deem to be "going too far," at which point we will wake up and recognize this country's calling, human liberty.

[BIG_DADDY]

I think we can still take to the streets. Much of what this administration has tried to do is limit that approach but just like everything else they try to do, they don't quite get it. And that will eventually work against them, IMO.

This administration has always thought that the American people are stupid and lazy. To a certain degree they have been correct. But I am a believer that they have seriously miscalculated the depths of our apathy and our stupidity.

They have overreached more than they ever should have been allowed to do. But I believe it will only take one incident in which the people of America deem to be "going too far," at which point we will wake up and recognize this country's calling, human liberty.

SO you're an idealist. It ain't gonna happen.

[HonestChieffan]

It is interesting to read when people seem to think we need overthrow or something akin to that.

We still live in the greatest country on eart with the best sytem ever developed.

That said, we have some problems. And we need to address the problems. That is not happening in a vaccum of leadership. Neither party is taking a lead on fixing issues that need fixing, we have no priorities, and time is spent on nonsense in washington in order to make the other guy look bad rather than doing whats right and making yourself or your party look good.

We have too many one issue special interests that tend to polarize our efforts. And we reelect people who have no business being reelected. Or we elect new people for all the wrong reasons. Ted Kennedy comes to mind...or Claire McCaskil.

People vote based on what is good for the individual, not what is good for the country anymore. If Teddy gets enough pork into Mass, he gets votes...Or West Virginia reelects that old doddering fool of a senator...but he gets them pork...

We dont need riots or protests, we need moral conviction and a will to do whats right for the country. Only then will we return to the right course. We need leaders.

[MahiMike]

I say we get rid of the 2 party system altogether and take the D's and R's off the names on the voting boothes. That'll make folks actually study what each candidate is about instead of blindly following their parties...

[MahiMike]

It is interesting to read when people seem to think we need overthrow or something akin to that.

People vote based on what is good for the individual, not what is good for the country anymore. If Teddy gets enough pork into Mass, he gets votes...Or West Virginia reelects that old doddering fool of a senator...but he gets them pork...



That and the proverbial 'I'll cut taxes' carrot that every republican uses to buy their votes... STFU

[CRONUS]

I say we get rid of the 2 party system altogether and take the D's and R's off the names on the voting boothes. That'll make folks actually study what each candidate is about instead of blindly following their parties...A third of the people in this country that do vote would not know how to vote if we did that. That would be amusing.

[patteeu]

That and the proverbial 'I'll cut taxes' carrot that every republican uses to buy their votes... STFU

I thought you said it was slick talk about virtues that had Republicans fooled? :shrug: