PDA

View Full Version : The worshiped DV


blueballs
08-26-2007, 07:36 AM
rebuilt
1st year 6-10
2nd year 8-8
5 years -1 playoff loss

The hated Herm
1st year 9-7
2nd year
1 year -1 playoff loss

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 07:38 AM
Because we were tired of Marty and the DV approach was FRESH.

Herm's approach isn't fresh. It's stale.

In fact, it's moldy.

blueballs
08-26-2007, 07:40 AM
purging the old
that's fresh

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 07:41 AM
purging the old
that's fresh

"purging the old" = lip service
QB is 34.

milkman
08-26-2007, 07:42 AM
The Worshipped Dick.

TEX
08-26-2007, 07:44 AM
rebuilt
1st year 6-10
2nd year 8-8
5 years -1 playoff loss

The hated Herm
1st year 9-7
2nd year
1 year -1 playoff loss

It's the difference in philosophy that was welcomed and what it represented.

DV - took 2 temas to the Super Bowl and won 1

Herm - Took Jets to the playoffs - How did it end?

blueballs
08-26-2007, 07:44 AM
The season starting QB is 34
handing the job to the young gun
when he didn't earn it is not wise

blueballs
08-26-2007, 07:46 AM
Herm is what this team needed
it may not be what this team needs next season
but right now it is

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 07:47 AM
The season starting QB is 34
handing the job to the young gun
when he didn't earn it is not wise

Not wise.
But DARING.
Daring <> Kansas City Chiefs
Chiefs = safe
and sorry

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 07:48 AM
Yes, we needed Herm.

Actually, CARL needed Herm.

Another hand puppet.

blueballs
08-26-2007, 07:49 AM
Croyle with a sense of entitlement
He should earn it -respect it more when he does get it

TEX
08-26-2007, 07:52 AM
Herm is what this team needed
it may not be what this team needs next season
but right now it is

IMO, Herm is what we needed if Saundars stayed as OC. When that didn't happen, we were screwed. Each could have provided the other "balance". But now we're stuck with Herm for the next two as well... :banghead:

milkman
08-26-2007, 07:52 AM
For the record, I said Dick was a bad choice and that he would not achieve the same kind of success in KC that he had elsewhere.

I was pissed when he was hired and couldn't wait till he was gone.

boogblaster
08-26-2007, 07:53 AM
Probably another 9-7 season...hope for better tho ....

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 07:53 AM
IMO, Herm is what we needed if Saundars stayed as OC. When that didn't happen, we were screwed. Each could have provided the other "balance". But now we're stuck with Herm for the next two as well... :banghead:

Saunders couldn't have stayed. He wouldn't be Carl's puppet.

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 07:54 AM
Croyle with a sense of entitlement
He should earn it -respect it more when he does get it

He did earn by way of the fact that we're supposed to be "getting younger" and he's YOUNGER.

Of course, that was a big lie.

TEX
08-26-2007, 07:57 AM
Saunders couldn't have stayed. He wouldn't be Carl's puppet.

Yep. Nor Herm's. Didn't Herm say that he didn't want an OC that would be constantly considered for a HC position and thus would always have the chance for leaving soon or something like that? What does that say about Hern? :hmmm:

blueballs
08-26-2007, 07:58 AM
He should not be rewarded with the starters job
when he does what the HC deplores
turns the ball over

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 08:00 AM
He should not be rewarded with the starters job
when he does what the HC deplores
turns the ball over

Turns the ball over.
Also threw 1 TD, while Huard couldn't even get a FIRST DOWN.
Don't care what the HC "deplores" because HC is a CLOWN.

blueballs
08-26-2007, 08:03 AM
You can't expect to be promoted if you ignore the bosses pet pevees
Brodie doesn't have the option of quiting and getting another job
He is stuck with the CLOWN

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 08:08 AM
You can't expect to be promoted if you ignore the bosses pet pevees
Brodie doesn't have the option of quiting and getting another job
He is stuck with the CLOWN

You can't get hired in the first place if you don't agree to toe the line...

And I feel sorry for Brodie, almost as much as I feel sorry for the fans of the Kansas City Chiefs.

We deserve better.

dirk digler
08-26-2007, 08:09 AM
I hate Herm as well I can't wait until him and Carl are gone hopefully in 2 years when Carl contract expires.

With that being said Croyle in 7 quarters of NFL play has thrown 5 INT's and 1 TD. You can't do that and last very long in the NFL.

blueballs
08-26-2007, 08:11 AM
Trent is gone not just because of age
he took chances
Brodie's future may ride on him toeing the line

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 08:11 AM
I hate Herm as well I can't wait until him and Carl are gone hopefully in 2 years when Carl contract expires.

With that being said Croyle in 7 quarters of NFL play has thrown 5 INT's and 1 TD. You can't do that and last very long in the NFL.

Especially when your coach is a coward and your team is more worried about season ticket renewals than winning a championship.

penchief
08-26-2007, 08:12 AM
Croyle with a sense of entitlement
He should earn it -respect it more when he does get it

I agree. This is why I'm thinking Herm is making the right call. First and foremost, we do want to win in Houston. Playing our cards right means that we can get a win and Brodie can keep working to get better. I agree with Herm that Croyle has to feel that he earned the job and that it wasn't given to him. I think that is just as important in developing a winning quarterback as getting reps. I think it's more important than the sense of entitlement that accompanied many of the players during the Vermeil era. That's a new standard that everybody on the team can respect.

Too me, that's a fresh approach. That, and having a bunch of young players who can contribute.

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 08:13 AM
I agree. This is why I'm thinking Herm is making the right call. First and foremost, we do want to win in Houston. Playing our cards right means that we can get a win and Brodie can keep working to get better. I agree with Herm that Croyle has to feel that he earned the job and that it wasn't given to him. I think that is just as important in developing a winning quarterback as getting reps. I think it's more important than the sense of entitlement that accompanied many of the players during the Vermeil era. That's a new standard that everybody on the team can respect.

Too me, that's a fresh approach. That, and having a bunch of young players who can contribute.

Of course we want to win in Houston. It's the springboard to another .500 season! YEAH!

milkman
08-26-2007, 08:13 AM
I hate Herm as well I can't wait until him and Carl are gone hopefully in 2 years when Carl contract expires.

With that being said Croyle in 7 quarters of NFL play has thrown 5 INT's and 1 TD. You can't do that and last very long in the NFL.

Every young QB in their first year as a starter, with the exception of Dan Marino, has struggled and thrown interceptions.

It's part of the learning process.

By starting Huard now, we delay that learning process.

burt
08-26-2007, 08:13 AM
Trent is gone not just because of age
he took chances

Trent(a good man) is gone because of declining abilities.

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 08:16 AM
Chiefs are like heroin
sometimes they make me feel great
in the end, they just make me want to puke
no fun, I want to quit
but I can't

chagrin
08-26-2007, 08:18 AM
He should not be rewarded with the starters job
when he does what the HC deplores
turns the ball over

Dude, why don't you explain how and why Damon Huard "earned" the starting job

dirk digler
08-26-2007, 08:19 AM
Especially when your coach is a coward and your team is more worried about season ticket renewals than winning a championship.

I totally agree but let me ask you this.

Are the Chiefs in rebuilding mode or not?

I don't think they are because I don't think you rebuild a "playoff team". But I could be wrong. Looking at the roster I still see alot of vets on this team.

TN_Chief
08-26-2007, 08:19 AM
Herm has made a career of coasting on what the prior coach left him. His record got consistently worse over time with the Jets, just as it will get worse here as the talent is depleted and not replaced or not compensated for with a more innovative gameplan.

blueballs
08-26-2007, 08:20 AM
I see it more as developing Croyle
we're not a practice every day
we don't know his faults and temperment

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 08:21 AM
I totally agree but let me ask you this.

Are the Chiefs in rebuilding mode or not?

I don't think they are because I don't think you rebuild a "playoff team". But I could be wrong. Looking at the roster I still see alot of vets on this team.

They SAY they're rebuilding, but they're not.

Last year's "playoff team" was a sham. Alas, it's become a recurring theme. The entire organization is a sham.

dirk digler
08-26-2007, 08:24 AM
Every young QB in their first year as a starter, with the exception of Dan Marino, has struggled and thrown interceptions.

It's part of the learning process.

By starting Huard now, we delay that learning process.

That is not always the case.

Tom Brady stats his first year was 18 TD's and 12 INT's and he won a SB.

Ben Roethlisberger in his first year had 17TD's and 11 INT's and took the team to the AFC Championship game and was 13-1.

chagrin
08-26-2007, 08:24 AM
Last year's "playoff team" was a sham.


that 1 playoff loss will probably match DV's by the end of Herm's 3 year run, with 0 victories.

blueballs
08-26-2007, 08:25 AM
Those pro-Croyle for starter say they can live with the growing pains
maybe not starting him is part of that growing pain

chagrin
08-26-2007, 08:25 AM
That is not always the case.

Tom Brady stats his first year was 18 TD's and 12 INT's and he won a SB.

Ben Roethlisberger in his first year had 17TD's and 11 INT's and took the team to the AFC Championship game and was 13-1.

And those teams had "it", we don't. There's no comparison

dirk digler
08-26-2007, 08:26 AM
They SAY they're rebuilding, but they're not.

Last year's "playoff team" was a sham. Alas, it's become a recurring theme. The entire organization is a sham.

They have? I have never heard Carl or Herm say we are rebuilding but I could be wrong.

IMO if they are rebuilding you don't sign Tony G to a huge contract or LJ.

chagrin
08-26-2007, 08:26 AM
Those pro-Croyle for starter say they can live with the growing pains
maybe not starting him is part of that growing pain


Still haven't seen you state why/how Damon Huard earned the starting job.

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 08:26 AM
Those pro-Croyle for starter say they can live with the growing pains
maybe not starting him is part of that growing pain

Bullshit.

burt
08-26-2007, 08:26 AM
They SAY they're rebuilding, but they're not.

Last year's "playoff team" was a sham. Alas, it's become a recurring theme. The entire organization is a sham.

Then go root for Denver, you negative son of a...... I am sick of your negative comments. Gee, maybe YOU can coach the Chiefs, you obviously have all the f***ing answers. It is amazing how so many computer salesmen, janitors, legal secretaries, cable guys, etc know MORE about football than professional football coaches.

STFU or go apply at Arrowhead.

chagrin
08-26-2007, 08:27 AM
They have? I have never heard Carl or Herm say we are rebuilding but I could be wrong.

IMO if they are rebuilding you don't sign Tony G to a huge contract or LJ.

You also don't let your 2 best players go away i the name of rebuilding, they have to keep asses in the seats

blueballs
08-26-2007, 08:27 AM
You see what you want to
I can't make you

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 08:27 AM
They have? I have never heard Carl or Herm say we are rebuilding but I could be wrong.

IMO if they are rebuilding you don't sign Tony G to a huge contract or LJ.

Herm said many, many times that we have to get younger.

He should have said "we have to get younger at positions where it's 100% safe to play young players. Where the fans won't notice as much so that they don't give up their tickets."

chagrin
08-26-2007, 08:28 AM
Then go root for Denver, you negative son of a...... I am sick of your negative comments. Gee, maybe YOU can coach the Chiefs, you obviously have all the f***ing answers. It is amazing how so many computer salesmen, janitors, legal secretaries, cable guys, etc know MORE about football than professional football coaches.

STFU or go apply at Arrowhead.

Isn't this the point of the board? Geesh

penchief
08-26-2007, 08:28 AM
Dude, why don't you explain how and why Damon Huard "earned" the starting job

Good point. But I think Herm addressed that when he said he weighed Damon's performance in the thick of battle last year to what they wanted Brodie to do in preseason. Brodie didn't do it so Damon's game performance from last year won out.

I think Herm is looking at the bigger picture. If Brodie doesn't earn it, he's not going to get the respect from his teammates that earning the job will get him. His teammates want to go to battle knowing that they have their best shot to win.

I think there is a lot to be excited about when it comes to Croyle but I think Herm is doing the right thing. There's no sense in serving a meal when the entree isn't ready.

dirk digler
08-26-2007, 08:29 AM
And those teams had "it", we don't. There's no comparison

I disagree. That Pats team went 0-2 and was getting their butts kicked when Brady took over no one gave them a shot to win 5 games.

Brady came in and took the team to the SB.

Maybe Croyle can do that too for us after Damon gets killed in the first couple of weeks.

blueballs
08-26-2007, 08:29 AM
not everybody can be taught the same way
and there is setting a example for the rest the squad

chagrin
08-26-2007, 08:29 AM
You see what you want to
I can't make you

That's because you have nothing to make your point.

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 08:30 AM
Then go root for Denver, you negative son of a...... I am sick of your negative comments. Gee, maybe YOU can coach the Chiefs, you obviously have all the f***ing answers. It is amazing how so many computer salesmen, janitors, legal secretaries, cable guys, etc know MORE about football than professional football coaches.

STFU or go apply at Arrowhead.

ROFL

I've been beaten down REPEATEDLY for SEVEN YEARS HERE, for being a HOMER. I defended this franchise at EVERY opportunity and was thoroughly chastised for it.

Perhaps, just PERHAPS, my negative comments were created by the KANSAS CITY CHIEFS.

You don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about. So you might as well keep your mouth shut.

burt
08-26-2007, 08:31 AM
Isn't this the point of the board? Geesh

No. Constantly bagging on the Chiefs is not the point of the board. It is absolutely sad when SOME "Fans?" become trolls on their own board.

headsnap
08-26-2007, 08:31 AM
Then go root for Denver, you negative son of a...... I am sick of your negative comments. Gee, maybe YOU can coach the Chiefs, you obviously have all the f***ing answers. It is amazing how so many computer salesmen, janitors, legal secretaries, cable guys, etc know MORE about football than professional football coaches.

STFU or go apply at Arrowhead.
You STFU!!!

it's a goddamn internet message board!!! It's what we are here for!!!

Herm has pissed me off enough that I might just take a 3 year sabbatical from my Chiefs worship... :cuss:

blueballs
08-26-2007, 08:31 AM
Did Page and Pollard out play thier predecessors
are did they just get the starting jobs on youth alone

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 08:31 AM
Good point. But I think Herm addressed that when he said he weighed Damon's performance in the thick of battle last year to what they wanted Brodie to do in preseason. Brodie didn't do it so Damon's game performance from last year won out.

I think Herm is looking at the bigger picture. If Brodie doesn't earn it, he's not going to get the respect from his teammates that earning the job will get him. His teammates want to go to battle knowing that they have their best shot to win.

I think there is a lot to be excited about when it comes to Croyle but I think Herm is doing the right thing. There's no sense in serving a meal when the entree isn't ready.

Herm is absolutely looking at the bigger picture - the business' financial strength. Being "competitive" is more important to the bottom line. No risks.

burt
08-26-2007, 08:32 AM
ROFL

I've been beaten down REPEATEDLY for SEVEN YEARS HERE, for being a HOMER. I defended this franchise at EVERY opportunity and was thoroughly chastised for it.

Perhaps, just PERHAPS, my negative comments were created by the KANSAS CITY CHIEFS.

You don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about. So you might as well keep your mouth shut.

F*** you. I have read your negative comments....ergo I do know what I am talking about, you negative son of a ........

dirk digler
08-26-2007, 08:32 AM
You also don't let your 2 best players go away i the name of rebuilding, they have to keep asses in the seats

BS all you have to do is look at the 49ers. They said they were rebuilding and the ONLY player they kept was Bryant Young.

IMO the Chiefs are retooling not rebuilding

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 08:32 AM
No. Constantly bagging on the Chiefs is not the point of the board. It is absolutely sad when SOME "Fans?" become trolls on their own board.

Like I said, I've been here for SEVEN YEARS, defending this sorry organization TOOTH AND NAIL.

This "troll" was created by the KANSAS CITY CHIEFS.

chagrin
08-26-2007, 08:32 AM
I disagree. That Pats team went 0-2 and was getting their butts kicked when Brady took over no one gave them a shot to win 5 games.

Brady came in and took the team to the SB.

Maybe Croyle can do that too for us after Damon gets killed in the first couple of weeks.

Come on man, you can't use that team as an example - what they did isn't exactly common in the NFL.

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 08:33 AM
F*** you. I have read your negative comments....ergo I do know what I am talking about, you negative son of a ........

ROFL

Need a shovel? Or do you just want someone to kick dirt in on top of you?

milkman
08-26-2007, 08:34 AM
Then go root for Denver, you negative son of a...... I am sick of your negative comments. Gee, maybe YOU can coach the Chiefs, you obviously have all the f***ing answers. It is amazing how so many computer salesmen, janitors, legal secretaries, cable guys, etc know MORE about football than professional football coaches.

STFU or go apply at Arrowhead.

When you watch this team do the same thing over and over, and over, and seen it fail each and every time, then frustration and anger are inevitable.

Starting Huard is just another repeat of the same mistake that has plagued this team.

We want to see a new approach, a risk taken. one that might not reap immediate rewards but can potentially lead to bigger and better things.

Damon Huard is going to do exactly what every other retread and journeymen QB has done here in the last 18 years.

He's going to lead this team into the land of mediocrity.

burt
08-26-2007, 08:34 AM
You STFU!!!

it's a goddamn internet message board!!! It's what we are here for!!!

Herm has pissed me off enough that I might just take a 3 year sabbatical from my Chiefs worship... :cuss:

If you are gonna be a troll....cya. Having concerns is understandable, but trashing our entire Chiefs organization because of a horrific preseason game is stupid.

Buehler445
08-26-2007, 08:34 AM
Every young QB in their first year as a starter, with the exception of Dan Marino, has struggled and thrown interceptions.

It's part of the learning process.

By starting Huard now, we delay that learning process.

For the most part you are correct. Either way the mistakes are going to happen now or later, but unless he is a prodigy in the right system, the mistakes will occur.

chagrin
08-26-2007, 08:35 AM
Did Page and Pollard out play thier predecessors
are did they just get the starting jobs on youth alone

They got the jobs on youth alone. Do you not remember what happened to their predecessors?

You still haven't made a point, you have nothing.

dirk digler
08-26-2007, 08:35 AM
Herm said many, many times that we have to get younger.

He should have said "we have to get younger at positions where it's 100% safe to play young players. Where the fans won't notice as much so that they don't give up their tickets."

They had to get younger because the team in the playoffs last year looked old and slow. But Herm or Carl never said anything about rebuilding. I don't think Carl would ever let us start rebuilding because then he can't sell as many season tickets.

Rebuilding to me means gutting the roster and basically starting from scratch. The Chiefs haven't done that.

chagrin
08-26-2007, 08:36 AM
Okay, well this is going nowhere - I'm out. See ya guys.

blueballs
08-26-2007, 08:37 AM
You have an ax to grind and nothing more
neg rep me some more and leave me be

headsnap
08-26-2007, 08:37 AM
If you are gonna be a troll....cya. Having concerns is understandable, but trashing our entire Chiefs organization because of a horrific preseason game is stupid.
One preseason game!!!!! How about the season and the future... coupled with the past it doesn't look good at all now.


you are clueless, you don't even know what a troll is!!! :shake:

burt
08-26-2007, 08:38 AM
When you watch this team do the same thing over and over, and over, and seen it fail each and every time, then frustration and anger are inevitable.

Starting Huard is just another repeat of the same mistake that has plagued this team.

We want to see a new approach, a risk taken. one that might not reap immediate rewards but can potentially lead to bigger and better things.

Damon Huard is going to do exactly what every other retread and journeymen QB has done here in the last 18 years.

He's going to lead this team into the land of mediocrity.

Gosh, seeing YOU jump on this bandwagon scares me. I haven't seen EVERY practice. I haven't watched films repeatedly. I HAVE to believe in the people that do. We had a horrific preseason game...so what. Huard MAY just complete this season as the second best rated QB...

Yeah, you negative nellies know much more than me. You have been posting on a FAN board for longer....so you must be "better" fans than me.


Oh, btw, I started watching the Chiefs in '68.

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 08:39 AM
If you are gonna be a troll....cya. Having concerns is understandable, but trashing our entire Chiefs organization because of a horrific preseason game is stupid.

Are you really that stupid?

Go back and look at my comments after that "horrific preseason game".

I was STILL ON THE BANDWAGON.

What's so hard to grasp? This is the CULMINATION of TWO DECADES OF FAILURE.

One preseason game doesn't matter AT ALL in the grand scheme of things.

milkman
08-26-2007, 08:40 AM
If you are gonna be a troll....cya. Having concerns is understandable, but trashing our entire Chiefs organization because of a horrific preseason game is stupid.

You don't know what you're talking about.

He's not pissed because of teh preseason game.

He's pissed by the decision to start Huard over Croyle.

headsnap
08-26-2007, 08:40 AM
Gosh, seeing YOU jump on this bandwagon scares me. I haven't seen EVERY practice. I haven't watched films repeatedly. I HAVE to believe in the people that do. We had a horrific preseason game...so what. Huard MAY just complete this season as the second best rated QB...

Yeah, you negative nellies know much more than me. You have been posting on a FAN board for longer....so you must be "better" fans than me.


Oh, btw, I started watching the Chiefs in '68.
OMG, a "REAL FAN" post!!!

dirk digler
08-26-2007, 08:40 AM
Come on man, you can't use that team as an example - what they did isn't exactly common in the NFL.

You are right it is not common but if you look around the league more and more young QB's play fairly well. You don't see many young QB's have stats like Alex Smith in their first year anymore.

Like I said before if the Chiefs were actually in rebuilding mode there would be no question that Brodie should start and play the whole season,

burt
08-26-2007, 08:41 AM
One preseason game!!!!! How about the season and the future... coupled with the past it doesn't look good at all now.


you are clueless, you don't even know what a troll is!!! :shake:

I may be clueless, but I am not gonna take all my marbles and go away.

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 08:41 AM
You have an ax to grind and nothing more
neg rep me some more and leave me be

If you're gonna whine about negative rep, say who gave it to you.

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 08:41 AM
They had to get younger because the team in the playoffs last year looked old and slow. But Herm or Carl never said anything about rebuilding. I don't think Carl would ever let us start rebuilding because then he can't sell as many season tickets.

Rebuilding to me means gutting the roster and basically starting from scratch. The Chiefs haven't done that.

And they won't.

It's too risky.

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 08:42 AM
Gosh, seeing YOU jump on this bandwagon scares me. I haven't seen EVERY practice. I haven't watched films repeatedly. I HAVE to believe in the people that do. We had a horrific preseason game...so what. Huard MAY just complete this season as the second best rated QB...

Yeah, you negative nellies know much more than me. You have been posting on a FAN board for longer....so you must be "better" fans than me.


Oh, btw, I started watching the Chiefs in '68.

Get real.

This is not overreacting to one preseason game. This is reacting to two decades of failure.

For the record, you jumped into this dicussion midstream calling people trolls, etc. To turn this around into "you must be better fans than me" argument is passive-aggressive to the Proctor degree.

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 08:44 AM
I may be clueless, but I am not gonna take all my marbles and go away.

The Chiefs took my marbles, I didn't.

blueballs
08-26-2007, 08:44 AM
THe stalker knows who I'm talking to
that's all that matters here

milkman
08-26-2007, 08:46 AM
Gosh, seeing YOU jump on this bandwagon scares me. I haven't seen EVERY practice. I haven't watched films repeatedly. I HAVE to believe in the people that do. We had a horrific preseason game...so what. Huard MAY just complete this season as the second best rated QB...

Yeah, you negative nellies know much more than me. You have been posting on a FAN board for longer....so you must be "better" fans than me.


Oh, btw, I started watching the Chiefs in '68.

I didn't just jump on this bandwagon, I have been driving it for a long time.

We don't see practices, you're right.

The people that know were the ones telling us how great Croyle looked in those practices.

But, at the end of the day, none of it matters.

I am only here to share my opinions, good or bad.

And one of those opinions is that the Chiefs will never win anything as long as they keep taking the safe route.

To this point in time, they've proven me right for the last 18 years of the Carl era.

And I've been a fan since I was a 5 year old in '63.

burt
08-26-2007, 08:49 AM
Get real.

This is not overreacting to one preseason game. This is reacting to two decades of failure.

For the record, you jumped into this dicussion midstream calling people trolls, etc.

For the record, it's a BB, people "jump" into discussions midstream.

To turn this around into "you must be better fans than me" argument is passive-aggressive to the Proctor degree.

"You must be better fans than me" may be passive-aggressive, I have been called much worse, but it was in refference to-
you are clueless,.

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 08:52 AM
"You must be better fans than me" may be passive-aggressive, I have been called much worse, but it was in refference to-

Well, in this case, you ARE clueless.

You jumped right in here and called me a troll for being negative. You have NO IDEA how much shit I've put up with here for NOT being negative.

burt
08-26-2007, 08:53 AM
I didn't just jump on this bandwagon, I have been driving it for a long time.

We don't see practices, you're right.

The people that know were the ones telling us how great Croyle looked in those practices.

But, at the end of the day, none of it matters.

I am only here to share my opinions, good or bad.

And one of those opinions is that the Chiefs will never win anything as long as they keep taking the safe route.

To this point in time, they've proven me right for the last 18 years of the Carl era.

And I've been a fan since I was a 5 year old in '63.

And YOU are not stating that the Chiefs organization is a "sham". You are NOT stating that you may just take a 3 year sabatacal.

Please keep stating your opinions with the class that I enjoy from you. Please don't change anything that has made you a fan since you were 5.

Oh, BTW, you are MUCH older that I am! :p

penchief
08-26-2007, 08:53 AM
Herm is absolutely looking at the bigger picture - the business' financial strength. Being "competitive" is more important to the bottom line. No risks.

I disagree. I think he wants to put Brodie in. Croyle gave him every reason not to. Herm will find a way to give him more opportunities. I don't think he expects him to be the second coming right away. He just wants him to stop making horrible decisions that cost us the ball and potentially the game.

The whole thing is probably going to make Croyle a better quarterback if he learns from it. I just look at it as part of the developmental process.

But in the end Croyle blew his chance. He gave Edwards no choice.

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 08:55 AM
And YOU are not stating that the Chiefs organization is a "sham". You are NOT stating that you may just take a 3 year sabatacal.

Please keep stating your opinions with the class that I enjoy from you. Please don't change anything that has made you a fan since you were 5.

Oh, BTW, you are MUCH older that I am! :p

ROFL

Actually, milk has been saying this organization is "sham" since the KC Star board back in 1997 or so.

Once again, you demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of the BACKGROUND of this conversation.

burt
08-26-2007, 08:55 AM
Well, in this case, you ARE clueless.

You jumped right in here and called me a troll for being negative. You have NO IDEA how much shit I've put up with here for NOT being negative.

Well, I guess, at least in this thread, the pendulum has swung too far to the other side.

Here, let me give you another passive aggressive gem,

Oh noes, the "better fan" called me clueless........or maybe it should read, "the bitter fan"..... :hmmm:

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 08:55 AM
I disagree. I think he wants to put Brodie in. Croyle gave him every reason not to. Herm will find a way to give him more opportunities. I don't think he expects him to be the second coming right away. He just wants him to stop making horrible decisions that cost us the ball and potentially the game.

The whole thing is probably going to make Croyle a better quarterback if he learns from it. I just look at it as part of the developmental process.

But in the end Croyle blew his chance. He gave Edwards no choice.

Yep. Because we gotta win 8 or 9 games and at least make the fans think we have a SHOT at the playoffs.

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 08:56 AM
Well, I guess, at least in this thread, the pendulum has swung too far to the other side.

Here, let me give you another passive aggressive gem,

Oh noes, the "better fan" called me clueless........or maybe it should read, "the bitter fan"..... :hmmm:

You're goddamn right, I'm bitter.

I think I DESERVE to be after 18 years of this bullshit.

Reerun_KC
08-26-2007, 08:57 AM
Well, I guess, at least in this thread, the pendulum has swung too far to the other side.

Here, let me give you another passive aggressive gem,

Oh noes, the "better fan" called me clueless........or maybe it should read, "the bitter fan"..... :hmmm:
Bitter Fan?

I am still to pissed at Carl and Herm to even post on this yet....

burt
08-26-2007, 08:57 AM
ROFL

Actually, milk has been saying this organization is "sham" since the KC Star board back in 1997 or so.

Once again, you demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of the BACKGROUND of this conversation.

lack of understanding is actually me middle name, not "fat fingers", but couple that with your negative comments, I felt the urge to buck tradition on bb's and just jump in the middle of a conversation.

dirk digler
08-26-2007, 08:59 AM
Yep. Because we gotta win 8 or 9 games and at least make the fans think we have a SHOT at the playoffs.

After reading this article I think the players wanted Huard more than Herm wanted Huard.

We are also not in rebuilding mode at least according to this Herm quote.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/247657.html

The move was well-received in the locker room, though players were trying hard to appear not to be taking sides.

“We know what (Huard) has to offer,” guard Brian Waters said. “We know what he gives to us. Damon brings stability. He brings consistency.”

Asked how long until Croyle gets his turn, Edwards said: “I’m a big guy about production. If you’re producing, you play. If there comes a point where a player is not producing, it doesn’t matter what position he plays. You have to give other people an opportunity.

“Brodie Croyle has a great future for us. He will one day be the starting quarterback for this football team. You can see a lot of flashes, a lot of potential in the guy. <b>But it’s all about winning and all about winning now.”</b>

burt
08-26-2007, 09:00 AM
You're goddamn right, I'm bitter.

I think I DESERVE to be after 18 years of this bullshit.

Most folks here "deserve" a better product than they have been getting, but I don't believe that the Chiefs have tried to displease you. I believe they are giving what they have. I also haven't thrown in the towel on this season. and you thought YOU were a homer........

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 09:00 AM
lack of understanding is actually me middle name, not "fat fingers", but couple that with your negative comments, I felt the urge to buck tradition on bb's and just jump in the middle of a conversation.

ROFL

Nobody said you have to participate in every thread from the very beginning.

But if you're gonna jump in and start calling people names, when you're quite obviously ignorant of what led to the conversation you're interrupting in the first place, you better be prepared to offend some people.

the Talking Can
08-26-2007, 09:01 AM
"win now"


we always must "win now"

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 09:01 AM
After reading this article I think the players wanted Huard more than Herm wanted Huard.

We are also not in rebuilding mode at least according to this Herm quote.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/247657.html

Of course the players want to win. The players don't have ANY concept of the future. It's always about the present season for them.

As for Herm, he's doing and saying what he was told to do and say.

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 09:03 AM
Most folks here "deserve" a better product than they have been getting, but I don't believe that the Chiefs have tried to displease you. I believe they are giving what they have. I also haven't thrown in the towel on this season. and you thought YOU were a homer........

Yes, the Chiefs have absolutely made a conscious decision to displease me, and every fan that thinks like me, in an effort to placate the other group of fans that would rather go 9-7 and never have a REAL shot at the Super Bowl than suffer through a losing season...

blueballs
08-26-2007, 09:04 AM
Herm is keeping his job by following the bosses orders
Brodie didn't get the starting job because he didn't follow orders
rebel lover

burt
08-26-2007, 09:05 AM
ROFL

Nobody said you have to participate in every thread from the very beginning.

But if you're gonna jump in and start calling people names, when you're quite obviously ignorant of what led to the conversation you're interrupting in the first place, you better be prepared to offend some people.

Yeah.....about that.....20 years in the car business......I am not used to offending ANYONE....... :rolleyes:

Please forgive me for getting overzealous...I am simply tired of the negativity. Especially form people that I have great respect for, and no I am NOT talking about Blue Balls..... :)

headsnap
08-26-2007, 09:05 AM
"You must be better fans than me" may be passive-aggressive, I have been called much worse, but it was in refference to-
Nice edit. :rolleyes:

the original quote was "you are clueless, you don't even know what a troll is!!!"

dirk digler
08-26-2007, 09:06 AM
Of course the players want to win. The players don't have ANY concept of the future. It's always about the present season for them.

As for Herm, he's doing and saying what he was told to do and say.

It seems to me according to this article they believe more in Huard than Croyle and that is pretty important IMHO. The players in the locker room apparently aren't sold on Croyle and they are the ones that play with the guy.

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 09:07 AM
The more I think about this, the more I think about what Kevin Harlan said on Keitzman's show this past week.

KC is a small market. There's very good chance that a SIZEABLE portion of the ticket holders on any given Sunday are CORPORATE entities. They're rewarding employees, entertaining clients, or maybe giving away tickets as a marketing promotion.

Those people, the ones attending the game on the corporation's behalf, generally have NO interest in the Chiefs long-term success. In fact, they might not even care about THIS SEASON.

They care only that the Chiefs win on THAT Sunday, when they are there to see it.

burt
08-26-2007, 09:08 AM
Yes, the Chiefs have absolutely made a conscious decision to displease me, and every fan that thinks like me, in an effort to placate the other group of fans that would rather go 9-7 and never have a REAL shot at the Super Bowl than suffer through a losing season...

I made a post at another bb...."If the Chiefs don't correct their problems fast, I could be very lonely at Arrowhead" I will support...no matter what. I will NEVER take my marbles and go home. And I respect every fan that refuses to purchase tickets to a poor product, it's just that I can't, or won't give up.

blueballs
08-26-2007, 09:08 AM
So Eddie ran the wrong routes
because he is a Huard backer
-poor joke

milkman
08-26-2007, 09:08 AM
ROFL

Actually, milk has been saying this organization is "sham" since the KC Star board back in 1997 or so.

Once again, you demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of the BACKGROUND of this conversation.

To be fair to Dale, I don't dwell on the my belief that the Chiefs are a joke.

When I first joined the Star board, I did come on strong with my opinion of the Chiefs as an organization to give people a sense of where I was coming from.

I almost reached the level of anger and frustration that you have when Carl hired Marty, and really reached it when he traded for Montana, a move that only HemiEd agrees with me on.

I just accept these moves now and move on.

I'm not happy about this decision, but it's what I've come to expect and they no longer really piss me off.

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 09:09 AM
Yeah.....about that.....20 years in the car business......I am not used to offending ANYONE....... :rolleyes:

Please forgive me for getting overzealous...I am simply tired of the negativity. Especially form people that I have great respect for, and no I am NOT talking about Blue Balls..... :)

I can only assume that you're insinuating that I'm one of the ones you have great respect for.

While I appreciate it, don't blame me for being negative. Rooting for the Chiefs made me this way.

burt
08-26-2007, 09:09 AM
Nice edit. :rolleyes:

Yeah, Phobia is trying to hire me to edit for his articles......

MahiMike
08-26-2007, 09:09 AM
I can see why they call you blueballs. Your vision has been affected by DSB (dreaded semen buildup). DV is, was and forever will be the best coach this team will ever have. We needed Herm like a war in Iraq...

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 09:10 AM
It seems to me according to this article they believe more in Huard than Croyle and that is pretty important IMHO. The players in the locker room apparently aren't sold on Croyle and they are the ones that play with the guy.

Frankly, I could care less what they want.

I remember that playoff game. I remember Gonzales and Waters, seemingly acting like petulant children, missing blocks and dropping passes.

This organization is just infected with "loseritis" all the way to the marrow.

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 09:11 AM
I can see why they call you blueballs. Your vision has been affected by DSB (dreaded semen buildup). DV is, was and forever will be the best coach this team will ever have. We needed Herm like a war in Iraq...

ROFL

That's some wicked hyperbole there.

blueballs
08-26-2007, 09:12 AM
weeping dick
for ring of honor

burt
08-26-2007, 09:13 AM
I can see why they call you blueballs. Your vision has been affected by DSB (dreaded semen buildup). DV is, was and forever will be the best coach this team will ever have. We needed Herm like a war in Iraq...

STFU ......... ROFL good to see ya!

burt
08-26-2007, 09:13 AM
weeping dick

something I am sure you are familiar with ROFL

blueballs
08-26-2007, 09:14 AM
He will go into the Missouri sports HOF
just a matter of time

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 09:14 AM
STFU ......... ROFL good to see ya!

You've been a fan since '68.

You wanna tell Mike about a guy named Hank Stram?

dirk digler
08-26-2007, 09:14 AM
Frankly, I could care less what they want.

I remember that playoff game. I remember Gonzales and Waters, seemingly acting like petulant children, missing blocks and dropping passes.

This organization is just infected with "loseritis" all the way to the marrow.

The one thing I think we both can agree on is that this organization needs an enema starting from the top down.

As far as the players not wanting Croyle IMO they have to believe in him otherwise it does no good in playing him at all.

burt
08-26-2007, 09:16 AM
You've been a fan since '68.

You wanna tell Mike about a guy named Hank Stram?

I was thinking about it, but remembered the years AFTER the SB and decided that I should STFU . BTW, I have known mike since...what....'75?..... Mike, input?

blueballs
08-26-2007, 09:17 AM
You know Dick just mirrored the organization
once you're hired you have a job for life

burt
08-26-2007, 09:17 AM
The one thing I think we both can agree on is that this organization needs an enema starting from the top down.

As far as the players not wanting Croyle IMO they have to believe in him otherwise it does no good drafting him at all.


FYP

ChiefsCountry
08-26-2007, 09:18 AM
and really reached it when he traded for Montana, a move that only HemiEd agrees with me on.


At the time I thought it was good but I agree with you it was a crappy move that actually set this franchise back IMO.

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 09:19 AM
FYP

FINALLY, you contribute something worthwhile. :D

Seriously, why did they draft the kid? What a waste.

milkman
08-26-2007, 09:19 AM
At the time I thought it was good but I agree with you it was a crappy move that actually set this franchise back IMO.

That's exactly what I thought at the time of the trade.

It was a short term solution to a long term problem.

burt
08-26-2007, 09:21 AM
At the time I thought it was good but I agree with you it was a crappy move that actually set this franchise back IMO.

I don't know football like some of you(no, not being passive aggressive) but I was just happy to watch him play. I will NEVER forget the Monday night come back against Elway!

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 09:21 AM
That's exactly what I thought at the time of the trade.

It was a short term solution to a long term problem.

And that was 1992.

Here we are, 15 years later, STILL dealing with the problem in the SAME WAY.

burt
08-26-2007, 09:23 AM
And that was 1992.

Here we are, 15 years later, STILL dealing with the problem in the SAME WAY.

Okay, see, that's not overly negative....just because I thought the same thing!!! ROFL

ChiefsCountry
08-26-2007, 09:26 AM
And that was 1992.

Here we are, 15 years later, STILL dealing with the problem in the SAME WAY.

Yep actually up until then we were building a pretty good team through the draft and off-street free agents.

If you look at the team past 1994 alot more free agents starting to filter into the system.

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 09:26 AM
Okay, see, that's not overly negative....just because I thought the same thing!!! ROFL

It depends on what you classify as "negative".

It certainly wasn't posted with the anger and vitriol of my posts from earlier.

But it absolutely was filled with the pervasive sadness I feel for the fact that I've become addicted to a perennial also-ran.

burt
08-26-2007, 09:29 AM
It depends on what you classify as "negative".

It certainly wasn't posted with the anger and vitriol of my posts from earlier.

But it absolutely was filled with the pervasive sadness I feel for the fact that I've become addicted to a perennial also-ran.

now we are on the same page.....am I still clueless????

milkman
08-26-2007, 09:29 AM
I don't know football like some of you(no, not being passive aggressive) but I was just happy to watch him play. I will NEVER forget the Monday night come back against Elway!

Yes, there were some moments that were really enjoyable, but the fact is we still didn't win anything.

I know some believe that if Montana hadn't been injured against Buffalo, he would have led this team to the SB.

I don't believe that.

Marv Levy and his staff didn't go into a consevative mode when they had leads.

They continued to attack, on both sides of the ball.

A big reason that QBs like Montana and Elway were able to win games late was because of the passive approach most teams take when leading late.

The Chiefs and Montana would not have had that luxury, and the fact is that the Bills were simply a much better team.

MahiMike
08-26-2007, 09:30 AM
You've been a fan since '68.

You wanna tell Mike about a guy named Hank Stram?

Yo Dale, what up?

Yes, I've heard of Hank Stram. Yes he is legendary and everyone loves to watch the replay of the 'matriculating' Superbowl. But keep in mind that it was a different era. How many teams even played back then? Was there a salary cap? Those Chiefs teams were stacked. Hank Stram was the George Siefert of the day. I'm sure DV would've had the same record with that talent.

Now skip forward to today's era; salary cap, 32 teams, better athletes across the board, etc. Add a team without one known WR - it's only real catching threat is a TE, a QB that is weak-armed and see what Hank can do with THAT. All DV did was set records not only for the Chiefs but the rest of the NFL. He made that weak-armed QB a perennial 4,000 yd passer. His RBs broke many records and he STILL did it without 1 single #1 WR.

That my friend, is coaching.

milkman
08-26-2007, 09:32 AM
Yo Dale, what up?

Yes, I've heard of Hank Stram. Yes he is legendary and everyone loves to watch the replay of the 'matriculating' Superbowl. But keep in mind that it was a different era. How many teams even played back then? Was there a salary cap? Those Chiefs teams were stacked. Hank Stram was the George Siefert of the day. I'm sure DV would've had the same record with that talent.

Now skip forward to today's era; salary cap, 32 teams, better athletes across the board, etc. Add a team without one known WR - it's only real catching threat is a TE, a QB that is weak-armed and see what Hank can do with THAT. All DV did was set records not only for the Chiefs but the rest of the NFL. He made that weak-armed QB a perennial 4,000 yd passer. His RBs broke many records and he STILL did it without 1 single #1 WR.

That my friend, is coaching.

No, actually that isn't coaching.

That is the result of having one of the all time great O-Lines.

And Dick had very little to do with that.

|Zach|
08-26-2007, 09:35 AM
So a guy who couldn't even win a playoff game is the best coach the Chiefs ever had?

Shit.

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 09:35 AM
Yo Dale, what up?

Yes, I've heard of Hank Stram. Yes he is legendary and everyone loves to watch the replay of the 'matriculating' Superbowl. But keep in mind that it was a different era. How many teams even played back then? Was there a salary cap? Those Chiefs teams were stacked. Hank Stram was the George Siefert of the day. I'm sure DV would've had the same record with that talent.

Now skip forward to today's era; salary cap, 32 teams, better athletes across the board, etc. Add a team without one known WR - it's only real catching threat is a TE, a QB that is weak-armed and see what Hank can do with THAT. All DV did was set records not only for the Chiefs but the rest of the NFL. He made that weak-armed QB a perennial 4,000 yd passer. His RBs broke many records and he STILL did it without 1 single #1 WR.

That my friend, is coaching.

DV had Willie Roaf in KC and Orlando Pace in St. Louis.

Without Roaf, that offense he built was BARELY effective.

burt
08-26-2007, 09:38 AM
DV had Willie Roaf in KC and Orlando Pace in St. Louis.

Without Roaf, that offense he built was BARELY effective.

But you can say without ________, that offence was BARELY effective about many SB teams.......

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 09:40 AM
But you can say without ________, that offence was BARELY effective about many SB teams.......

Without who? In Dallas, it was Aikman AND Smith. In San Fran it was Montana AND Rice.

In KC, without Willie Roaf, our offense was HORRIBLE more often than not.

burt
08-26-2007, 09:43 AM
Without who? In Dallas, it was Aikman AND Smith. In San Fran it was Montana AND Rice.

In KC, without Willie Roaf, our offense was HORRIBLE more often than not.

I respectfully disagree. Without Montana, or Young....without Gruden.....without Elway......without Brady......IMHO

penchief
08-26-2007, 09:47 AM
Yep. Because we gotta win 8 or 9 games and at least make the fans think we have a SHOT at the playoffs.

I would think that Herm owes it to the integrity of the team and to the players to win. There is no rule that says you can't develop a quarterback and still try to win. Lot's of teams have developed quarterbacks without forfeiting an entire season to do it. I don't think we should have to, either.

My guess is that Brodie will wrest the starting job away from Huard before the season is up. And it wouldn't surprise me if we still had a shot at the playoffs.

Extra Point
08-26-2007, 09:50 AM
Croyle will get the starting job when Huard gets creamed. Printers will get the starting job when Croyle gets creamed. Terrell will get the starting job when Printers loses the handle too many times.

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 09:51 AM
I respectfully disagree. Without Montana, or Young....without Gruden.....without Elway......without Brady......IMHO

All of those people you named WON SUPER BOWLS. :shake:

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 09:52 AM
I would think that Herm owes it to the integrity of the team and to the players to win. There is no rule that says you can't develop a quarterback and still try to win. Lot's of teams have developed quarterbacks without forfeiting an entire season to do it. I don't think we should have to, either.

My guess is that Brodie will wrest the starting job away from Huard before the season is up. And it wouldn't surprise me if we still had a shot at the playoffs.

The season is already forfeit. Unless you're trying to suggest that this team can win in the playoffs with Damon Huard. I certainly hope that's not what you're trying to suggest.

As for Brodie taking over mid-season, it's much like Denver last year.

The difference is that Denver fans understood the move last year and gleefully accepted the 2-3 finish.

Chiefs fans won't do that.

burt
08-26-2007, 09:56 AM
All of those people you named WON SUPER BOWLS. :shake:

????????????

OnTheWarpath58
08-26-2007, 10:02 AM
I would think that Herm owes it to the integrity of the team and to the players to win. There is no rule that says you can't develop a quarterback and still try to win. Lot's of teams have developed quarterbacks without forfeiting an entire season to do it. I don't think we should have to, either.

My guess is that Brodie will wrest the starting job away from Huard before the season is up. And it wouldn't surprise me if we still had a shot at the playoffs.

Why is is that Croyle = not trying to win?

Sure, he's a young QB. Sure, he'll make mistakes. But the only way to find out is to play him.

The Falcons didn't think they could win with Brett Favre, and traded him.

The Saints didn't think much of Marc Bulger, and cut him.

New England was happy to sit Tom Brady's ass on the bench, only to be forced to play him because of injury. How did that work out again?

Kurt Warner was cast aside by several teams, and probably would have never seen the field if it wasn't for Rodney Harrison mangling Trent's knee. Imagine their surprise when he won them a SB and an MVP trophy.

To give up on what is supposed to be your "future" for the sake of 1-2 more wins by starting the other guy, is retarded. But hey, it's what we've come to expect.

There is not ONE GOOD REASON to start Huard over Croyle.

Not ONE.

Unless you're Carl Peterson, and the only thing that matters is asses in seats.

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 10:03 AM
????????????

Just sadly pointing out that every name on your list has tasted victory and we haven't...

OnTheWarpath58
08-26-2007, 10:04 AM
The season is already forfeit. Unless you're trying to suggest that this team can win in the playoffs with Damon Huard. I certainly hope that's not what you're trying to suggest.

As for Brodie taking over mid-season, it's much like Denver last year.

The difference is that Denver fans understood the move last year and gleefully accepted the 2-3 finish.

Chiefs fans won't do that.

Some Denver fans would tell you they wish Cutler had started from the BEGINNING. They'd have a much better idea of what to expect THIS year.

Instead, Cutler got a whole 5 games experience, and the team has nothing to show for last year. Wasted season.

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 10:11 AM
Some Denver fans would tell you they wish Cutler had started from the BEGINNING. They'd have a much better idea of what to expect THIS year.

Instead, Cutler got a whole 5 games experience, and the team has nothing to show for last year. Wasted season.

Yep.

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 10:12 AM
Of course, Denver fans EXPECT championships.

Chief fans expect a wild-card berth.

BigRock
08-26-2007, 10:15 AM
Some Denver fans would tell you they wish Cutler had started from the BEGINNING.
Yeah, IN HINDSIGHT. How many were screaming "WE SHOULD BE PLAYING JAY CUTLER TO GET HIM SOME EXPERIENCE!!!!" when they were 5-1 and 7-2 a year ago? And they sure as hell weren't gleeful about their 2-3 finish last year when they choked away a playoff birth in the final game of the season.

This is some of the most laughable revisionist history of all time. ROFL

OnTheWarpath58
08-26-2007, 10:17 AM
Yeah, IN HINDSIGHT. How many were screaming "WE SHOULD BE PLAYING JAY CUTLER TO GET HIM SOME EXPERIENCE!!!!" when they were 5-1 and 7-2 a year ago? And they sure as hell weren't gleeful about their 2-3 finish last year when they choked away a playoff birth in the final game of the season.

This is some of the most laughable revisionist history of all time. ROFL

Go back into the archives.

There were Denver fans ON THIS BOARD who wanted Cutler from the get-go, because they knew that PLUMMER was NOT going to lead them to a SB.

Like Parker said, Denver fans EXPECT CHAMPIONSHIPS. Just making the playoffs is not the goal.

If they knew they weren't getting one with Plummer, why not give the kid experience so they COULD get one ASAP?

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 10:19 AM
Yeah, IN HINDSIGHT. How many were screaming "WE SHOULD BE PLAYING JAY CUTLER TO GET HIM SOME EXPERIENCE!!!!" when they were 5-1 and 7-2 a year ago? And they sure as hell weren't gleeful about their 2-3 finish last year when they choked away a playoff birth in the final game of the season.

This is some of the most laughable revisionist history of all time. ROFL

Revisionist? Hardly.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3213434

This is the first post from Taco John, on MAY NINETEENTH 2006, in a string of posts acknowledging that Plummer gives them the best short-term chance to win, but no chance of winning a Super Bowl.

BigRock
08-26-2007, 10:19 AM
Go back into the archives.

There were Denver fans ON THIS BOARD who wanted Cutler from the get-go, because they knew that PLUMMER was NOT going to lead them to a SB.
Ooooh, maybe 3 or 4 whole people? How reflective of an entire fan base.

OnTheWarpath58
08-26-2007, 10:20 AM
Revisionist? Hardly.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3213434

This is the first post from Taco John, on MAY NINETEENTH 2006, in a string of posts acknowledging that Plummer gives them the best short-term chance to win, but no chance of winning a Super Bowl.

Thanks, Parker.

I wanted him to do the work.....


:)

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 10:20 AM
Ooooh, maybe 3 or 4 whole people? How reflective of an entire fan base.

You ever go over the Orangemane?

It's ALOT more than 3 or 4 people.

But go ahead, keep moving the target. You won't ever get the benefit of being right, but at least nobody can prove you wrong.

BigRock
08-26-2007, 10:20 AM
Revisionist? Hardly.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3213434

This is the first post from Taco John, on MAY NINETEENTH 2006, in a string of posts acknowledging that Plummer gives them the best short-term chance to win, but no chance of winning a Super Bowl.
Oh, ONE guy. I gave you too much credit with 3 or 4.

BigRock
08-26-2007, 10:39 AM
You ever go over the Orangemane?

It's ALOT more than 3 or 4 people.

But go ahead, keep moving the target. You won't ever get the benefit of being right, but at least nobody can prove you wrong.

Keep moving the target? You're the one who claimed Donk fans were GLEEFUL at their sputtering finish to last season, and then linked to one guy's post from early in the year about Cutler giving them the best chance long-term. Come on, where's all this evidence of their glee? You said it, back it up.

The entire argument is a fraud on it's face because any Denver fan who wanted Cutler to have experience would have loved a playoff birth, even if it didn't amount to anything, if only to get Cutler some valuable experience in that kind of situation.

But none of you with sand in your cracks about Brodie would know anything about that. Because the Chiefs going 8-8 or 9-7 and getting one playoff game would be totally meaningless, right? Guys like Bowe and Tamba and Pollard and Page and Allen and DJ and Medlock and Webb and Hannon would have nothing to gain from getting as much playoff experience under their belts as possible.

bringbackmarty
08-26-2007, 10:42 AM
I think that there is some information which we as fans are not privy to. Perhaps the coaches feel with the pass protection problems Huard is a better choice, especially with Macintosh out. Maybe Macintosh sits for the first few games and they don't want Croyle to get killed, because Svitek is that bad.
I guess we really won't know until opening day if there is any logic to this decision.

htismaqe
08-26-2007, 10:43 AM
Keep moving the target? You're the one who claimed Donk fans were GLEEFUL at their sputtering finish to last season, and then linked to one guy's post from early in the year about Cutler giving them the best chance long-term. Come on, where's all this evidence of their glee? You said it, back it up.

The entire argument is a fraud on it's face because any Denver fan who wanted Cutler to have experience would have loved a playoff birth, even if it didn't amount to anything, if only to get Cutler some valuable experience in that kind of situation.

But none of you with sand in your cracks about Brodie would know anything about that. Because the Chiefs going 8-8 or 9-7 and getting one playoff game would be totally meaningless, right? Guys like Bowe and Tamba and Pollard and Page and Allen and DJ and Medlock and Webb and Hannon would have nothing to gain from getting as much playoff experience under their belts as possible.

2 of my best friends said it. They're Bronco fans. The Orangemane was FULL of people wishing for it. I did back it up, I produced one post with a minimum of effort. Asking me to go further, and do more work, is YOU moving the bar. The evidence is there, you're just too lazy to look for it yourself. Not my problem.

Furthermore, you don't even understand the point of the argument. I never said that Bronco fans wouldn't have LOVED to get Cutler that experience. It's that they didn't care to let PLUMMER get that experience. They wanted Cutler, and if they made the playoffs with him, gravy. As it was, they understood the value of those last 5 games for Cutler and didn't lament missing the playoffs.

Finally, I'm glad that those young guys can get experience in the playoffs. Moral victories are all we have.

penchief
08-26-2007, 11:08 AM
The season is already forfeit. Unless you're trying to suggest that this team can win in the playoffs with Damon Huard. I certainly hope that's not what you're trying to suggest.

As for Brodie taking over mid-season, it's much like Denver last year.

The difference is that Denver fans understood the move last year and gleefully accepted the 2-3 finish.

Chiefs fans won't do that.

I don't necessarily agree. Huard probably does give us the best chance to win the first couple of games. That said, Brodie can take this setback and run with it. I think he is most definitely the future and we agree on his talents. But I also think that the overall development of Croyle and this team is better served by the way Herm is handling it.

I do think this is a joint decision but I also think Herm is on board. I think there is more to lose than to gain by starting Croyle before he is ready.

IMO, Brodie is going to win the job and win the confidence of his teammates. There is no reason to force it artificially before that time comes. Even though I do believe this decision serves the short-term, that is also why I believe it serves the long-term, as well.

There is no doubt in my mind that Brodie Croyle is going to be a coveted QB in this league. I'm just suggesting a little patience, grasshopper. Sometime 'wax on-wax off' seems a little unnecessary but I still believe it serves a purpose. I can see its wisdom in this case.

Baby Lee
08-26-2007, 12:05 PM
That's exactly what I thought at the time of the trade.

It was a short term solution to a long term problem.
If the SB is the sole goal of this enterprise, and as Montana got us closer to that goal than any other point in my lifetime, I'm gonna say it wasn't the worst move around.

BigRock
08-26-2007, 12:38 PM
2 of my best friends said it. They're Bronco fans. The Orangemane was FULL of people wishing for it. I did back it up, I produced one post with a minimum of effort. Asking me to go further, and do more work, is YOU moving the bar. The evidence is there, you're just too lazy to look for it yourself. Not my problem.
So asking you to actually back up the things you're saying is "moving the bar"? Tremendous.

Just so we're on the same page, you said Denver fans "understood the move" of playing Cutler and "gleefully accepted" going 2-3 down the stretch. In other words, they didn't mind giving up on their season because they looked at the big picture and knew Cutler would be getting valuable experience for the future. After all, they expect championships, not just a token playoff appearance. And you don't feel that Chiefs fans would be as willing to give up their season.

I know there were Broncos fans who wanted to see Cutler. There is a big difference, though, between Broncos fans wanting Cutler to play because they thought he gave them a better chance of winning games in 2006 than Jake Plummer did, and Broncos fans wanting Cutler to play because they were willing to give up on the season in order to get Jay some playing time. You're saying the latter. You're saying they had the big picture in mind and couldn't have cared less about what happened in 2006. You're claming they were "gleeful" while the team choked away a playoff birth at the end of the year.

I don't think that's the case at all. I think anyone who may have expressed those thoughts, if anyone actually did, were few and far between and hardly representitive of most Broncos fans.

But I'm willing to admit I was wrong if I can see some proof of it.

milkman
08-26-2007, 12:44 PM
If the SB is the sole goal of this enterprise, and as Montana got us closer to that goal than any other point in my lifetime, I'm gonna say it wasn't the worst move around.

I admit that Montana almost singlehandedly brought this team closer to the goal than I ever expected he could, given the talent on offense that this team had, and my low expectations for any Marty coached team.

That being said, regardless of the reason that he didn't get us a SB, the fact remains that he didn't get us to the SB, and we are still, at this point in time, trying to find a long term solution to our QB issues.

And we are still a team that has been mired in mediocrity going into the 19th year of the Carl era.

stanleychief
08-26-2007, 01:06 PM
I think that there is some information which we as fans are not privy to. Perhaps the coaches feel with the pass protection problems Huard is a better choice, especially with Macintosh out. Maybe Macintosh sits for the first few games and they don't want Croyle to get killed, because Svitek is that bad.
I guess we really won't know until opening day if there is any logic to this decision.

Good point, and it's not like we have a stellar receiving core either. Why rush to plug in Croyle when the tools to get the job done aren't in place. Right now I don't see any quarterback having much success judging from what I've seen in preseason play. If Croyle is the future of the franchise, then play Huard until we start seeing better O-line play. No sense in having him get a concussion in a season where we don't have a shot at the playoffs anyway.

Chiefnj2
08-26-2007, 01:46 PM
2 of my best friends said it. They're Bronco fans. The Orangemane was FULL of people wishing for it. I did back it up, I produced one post with a minimum of effort. Asking me to go further, and do more work, is YOU moving the bar. The evidence is there, you're just too lazy to look for it yourself. Not my problem.

Furthermore, you don't even understand the point of the argument. I never said that Bronco fans wouldn't have LOVED to get Cutler that experience. It's that they didn't care to let PLUMMER get that experience. They wanted Cutler, and if they made the playoffs with him, gravy. As it was, they understood the value of those last 5 games for Cutler and didn't lament missing the playoffs.

Finally, I'm glad that those young guys can get experience in the playoffs. Moral victories are all we have.


In preseason did Cutler ever look as bad as Croyle has?

OnTheWarpath58
08-26-2007, 01:50 PM
In preseason did Cutler ever look as bad as Croyle has?

In preseason did the Broncos OL and WR's look as bad as the Chiefs' have?

I love how Croyle takes the blame for the shoddy OL and WR play.

Yet, somehow, I figure Huard will be defended when the SAME THING happens to him in the regular season.

blueballs
08-26-2007, 02:09 PM
The Arrowhead crowd didn't help booing him in preseason
Green could handle the boobirds -or could he

Demonpenz
08-26-2007, 02:16 PM
Cutler is a first round pick who went to vandy. He is one smart cookie. Croyle is a third rounder I don't know why we are comparing the two. I would probably be in the "start the young qb" side if we had Vince Young or someone who is highly touted but we don't.

Chiefnj2
08-26-2007, 03:31 PM
In preseason did the Broncos OL and WR's look as bad as the Chiefs' have?

I love how Croyle takes the blame for the shoddy OL and WR play.

Yet, somehow, I figure Huard will be defended when the SAME THING happens to him in the regular season.

Were the INT's the fault of the OL and receivers, or were they mental mistakes by Croyle?

OnTheWarpath58
08-26-2007, 03:43 PM
Were the INT's the fault of the OL and receivers, or were they mental mistakes by Croyle?

He's thrown 3 INT's in 3 games.

I guess young QB's aren't allowed to make mistakes?

Peyton Manning threw 28 his rookie year. Guess he really sucks.

ChiefsCountry
08-26-2007, 03:51 PM
Were the INT's the fault of the OL and receivers, or were they mental mistakes by Croyle?

The one against Miami was all Croyle, the Cleveland one was the OL, and the Saints one was half Croyle/half Kennison.

go bowe
08-27-2007, 01:33 PM
I may be clueless, but I am not gonna take all my marbles and go away.no way horse ray...

i'm holding some of your cat's eye marbles hostage until you agree to stay...

so there...

HemiEd
08-27-2007, 02:08 PM
They have? I have never heard Carl or Herm say we are rebuilding but I could be wrong.

IMO if they are rebuilding you don't sign Tony G to a huge contract or LJ.

Donnie Edwards coming back should have been a strong indicator that we were NOT rebuilding.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 02:09 PM
Donnie Edwards coming back should have been a strong indicator that we were NOT rebuilding.

Yep. They sure fooled me.

chiefsfan1963
08-27-2007, 02:30 PM
The next few years of the CP/Herm era is going to be boring and miserable!

The only thing we will look forward to is the next NFL draft, and collecting quality potentially franchise type players for the next regime to work with.

Next year's draft will be most likely be a Top 10 or even a Top 5 pick for the Chiefs. I'm looking for Chiefs to win maybe 5 games and each of those wins will be boring and from miscues by their opponents.

You can hate DV all you want, but his team's were not boring and they produced the best offenses in the league consistently. His downfall was getting draft picks to contribute. Most were busts and because of this he could never produce a Top 20 Defense. If he had been better at picking quality players in the draft he would have repeated what he did in St. Louis in K.C.

|Zach|
08-27-2007, 02:36 PM
The next few years of the CP/Herm era is going to be boring and miserable!

The only thing we will look forward to is the next NFL draft, and collecting quality potentially franchise type players for the next regime to work with.

Next year's draft will be most likely be a Top 10 or even a Top 5 pick for the Chiefs. I'm looking for Chiefs to win maybe 5 games and each of those wins will be boring and from miscues by their opponents.

You can hate DV all you want, but his team's were not boring and they produced the best offenses in the league consistently. His downfall was getting draft picks to contribute. Most were busts and because of this he could never produce a Top 20 Defense. If he had been better at picking quality players in the draft he would have repeated what he did in St. Louis in K.C.
And he never won a playoff game.

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 02:53 PM
The next few years of the CP/Herm era is going to be boring and miserable!

The only thing we will look forward to is the next NFL draft, and collecting quality potentially franchise type players for the next regime to work with.

Next year's draft will be most likely be a Top 10 or even a Top 5 pick for the Chiefs. I'm looking for Chiefs to win maybe 5 games and each of those wins will be boring and from miscues by their opponents.

You can hate DV all you want, but his team's were not boring and they produced the best offenses in the league consistently. His downfall was getting draft picks to contribute. Most were busts and because of this he could never produce a Top 20 Defense. If he had been better at picking quality players in the draft he would have repeated what he did in St. Louis in K.C.

So it's OK to lose 35-30 but not 17-10?

Makes sense.

And you might want to rethink what happened in STL.

He wasn't responsible for any success in STL. He was forced by John Shaw to get rid of his old cronies (sound familiar) and had Mike Martz and Lovie Smith forced on him.

He had little to no power when it came to drafting. The job was Jay Zygmunt's with input from the entire coaching staff.

DV should wake up every morning and thank Zygmunt for forcing him to change his ways. He wouldn't have a ring without doing so.

And sure enough, he went right back to his old ways in KC. The buddy system.

njbill
08-27-2007, 03:05 PM
Isn't Herm DV's buddy?

chiefsfan1963
08-27-2007, 03:13 PM
So it's OK to lose 35-30 but not 17-10?

Makes sense.

And you might want to rethink what happened in STL.

He wasn't responsible for any success in STL. He was forced by John Shaw to get rid of his old cronies (sound familiar) and had Mike Martz and Lovie Smith forced on him.

He had little to no power when it came to drafting. The job was Jay Zygmunt's with input from the entire coaching staff.

DV should wake up every morning and thank Zygmunt for forcing him to change his ways. He wouldn't have a ring without doing so.

And sure enough, he went right back to his old ways in KC. The buddy system.


I stand corrected. DV was just lucky getting to the SB twice with 2 different teams and winning it once. For some reason NFL Owners/GM's would continue to hire him and right away find out that he sucked so they wouldn't fire him they would just let him stay as the head coach but not let him do anything and force him to get rid of all his assistant's and then they would hire new one's and let them manage the team.

When he came to KC he had nothing to do with the Offense being the Top offense in the league for nearly his entire tenure at least 4 seasons. But he was responsible for all the failures of the team during his tenure.

Most Chief fans want a strong D and a very boring O that rarely scores and never takes risks. They like the fact that the rest of the league and media considers them a "Field Goal" offense. They are proud that they made the playoffs last year and produced one of the all time worst performances in NFL Playoff History.

They have a proud history of selling out all their home games and putting no pressure on ownership to get rid of the GM that has outstayed his welcome for more than a decade.

KC Fans are just nice folks and make good barbacue.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 03:24 PM
Most Chief fans want a strong D and a very boring O that rarely scores and never takes risks.

It's like you've been here all this time and posted all of your stupid, inane rants and yet have NEVER read anybody else's posts...

Baby Lee
08-27-2007, 03:30 PM
Most Chief fans want a strong D and a very boring O that rarely scores and never takes risks. They like the fact that the rest of the league and media considers them a "Field Goal" offense. They are proud that they made the playoffs last year and produced one of the all time worst performances in NFL Playoff History.
Nobody WANTS a boring O.
No one's proud we just made the playoffs.
No one likes the scorn from the rest of the league.

But a strong D is a MUST in the NFL, it's why the game is played. Othwise just go watch the arena league, or basketball.

You have no idea what makes a good team, you just like pretty plays on offense and could care less about the rest, or even how those pretty plays come about.

chiefsfan1963
08-27-2007, 03:42 PM
Nobody WANTS a boring O.
No one's proud we just made the playoffs.
No one likes the scorn from the rest of the league.

But a strong D is a MUST in the NFL, it's why the game is played. Othwise just go watch the arena league, or basketball.

You have no idea what makes a good team, you just like pretty plays on offense and could care less about the rest, or even how those pretty plays come about.

Well enjoy the rest of the Herm/CP era. You are getting what you asked for. You are right I want pretty, and there was nothing pretty about Chief's playoff appearance last year.

There is nothing pretty about what I've seen to date. I'm hoping that our D will at least not look ugly out there and keep the games a little close.

We'll see.

HemiEd
08-27-2007, 03:50 PM
Well, in this case, you ARE clueless.

You jumped right in here and called me a troll for being negative. You have NO IDEA how much shit I've put up with here for NOT being negative.

Yep, I will back up this post. I gave you a lot of crap for defending Herm, you gave him the benefit of the doubt. It didn't take me long to decide he was the equivelent hire of Gunther.

HemiEd
08-27-2007, 03:59 PM
At the time I thought it was good but I agree with you it was a crappy move that actually set this franchise back IMO.

The franchise was very close to building long term success at the time, and "jumped the shark" in an effort to meet the "5 year plan."

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 04:17 PM
I stand corrected. DV was just lucky getting to the SB twice with 2 different teams and winning it once. For some reason NFL Owners/GM's would continue to hire him and right away find out that he sucked so they wouldn't fire him they would just let him stay as the head coach but not let him do anything and force him to get rid of all his assistant's and then they would hire new one's and let them manage the team.

When he came to KC he had nothing to do with the Offense being the Top offense in the league for nearly his entire tenure at least 4 seasons. But he was responsible for all the failures of the team during his tenure.

Most Chief fans want a strong D and a very boring O that rarely scores and never takes risks. They like the fact that the rest of the league and media considers them a "Field Goal" offense. They are proud that they made the playoffs last year and produced one of the all time worst performances in NFL Playoff History.

They have a proud history of selling out all their home games and putting no pressure on ownership to get rid of the GM that has outstayed his welcome for more than a decade.

KC Fans are just nice folks and make good barbacue.\

In ENGLISH, please?

There's not a word there that disputes that DV lucked his way into a SB ring. I didn't say a WORD about his job in Philadelphia.

I also didn't say anything about him getting ALL of the blame in KC.

And you STILL haven't answered my question:

So it's OK to lose 35-30 but not 17-10?

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 04:35 PM
Nobody WANTS a boring O.
No one's proud we just made the playoffs.
No one likes the scorn from the rest of the league.

But a strong D is a MUST in the NFL, it's why the game is played. Othwise just go watch the arena league, or basketball.

You have no idea what makes a good team, you just like pretty plays on offense and could care less about the rest, or even how those pretty plays come about.

Defense wins Championships.

Period.

In the history of the Super Bowl only THREE teams have gotten to the game (not WON the game, GOT TO the game) with a defense that ranked higher than 14 in both Points Allowed and Yards Allowed.

The vast majority had a Top 10 defense in both yards and points.

Oh, and by the way, all three teams LOST in the SB.

Imagine that.

penchief
08-27-2007, 05:15 PM
I stand corrected. DV was just lucky getting to the SB twice with 2 different teams and winning it once. For some reason NFL Owners/GM's would continue to hire him and right away find out that he sucked so they wouldn't fire him they would just let him stay as the head coach but not let him do anything and force him to get rid of all his assistant's and then they would hire new one's and let them manage the team.

When he came to KC he had nothing to do with the Offense being the Top offense in the league for nearly his entire tenure at least 4 seasons. But he was responsible for all the failures of the team during his tenure.

Most Chief fans want a strong D and a very boring O that rarely scores and never takes risks. They like the fact that the rest of the league and media considers them a "Field Goal" offense. They are proud that they made the playoffs last year and produced one of the all time worst performances in NFL Playoff History.

They have a proud history of selling out all their home games and putting no pressure on ownership to get rid of the GM that has outstayed his welcome for more than a decade.

KC Fans are just nice folks and make good barbacue.

He definitely built that team in Philly. I think he got 'lucky' in St. Louis.

In Philly he had the kind of team that Herm believes in. Herm is not a Marty desciple so much as he is a desciple of Philly Dick.

With the Rams, Vermeil already had the ingredients for a decent defense and he had Martz utilizing an offense tailor-made personnelwise for what he wanted to do.

I like Vermeil but I would never want him as a coach again. He and Saunders created an atmosphere of entitlement. That culture was not conducive to winning football. He valued relationships and good stories more than he valued building football character, IMO. That said, his one stroke of genius was trading Victor Riley for Willie Roaf. Talk about a coup. That has to rank right up there somewhere in the top-ten of all time.

But losing our defensive pride was not worth it. I hated being scored on at will (ten times more than I hated not being able to score). I would much rather have a pitiful offense than a pitiful defense. Defense is about heart and pride.

I still think we're headed in the right direction with Herm, though.

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 05:33 PM
He definitely built that team in Philly. I think he got 'lucky' in St. Louis.

In Philly he had the kind of team that Herm believes in. Herm is not a Marty desciple so much as he is a desciple of Philly Dick.

With the Rams, Vermeil already had the ingredients for a decent defense and he had Martz utilizing an offense tailor-made personnelwise for what he wanted to do.

I like Vermeil but I would never want him as a coach again. He and Saunders created an atmosphere of entitlement. That culture was not conducive to winning football. He valued relationships and good stories more than he valued building football character, IMO. That said, his one stroke of genius was trading Victor Riley for Willie Roaf. Talk about a coup. That has to rank right up there somewhere in the top-ten of all time.

But losing our defensive pride was not worth it. I hated being scored on at will (ten times more than I hated not being able to score). I would much rather have a pitiful offense than a pitiful defense. Defense is about heart and pride.

I still think we're headed in the right direction with Herm, though.

Nice to know I'm not alone on this one.

Valiant
08-27-2007, 06:35 PM
rebuilt
1st year 6-10
2nd year 8-8
5 years -1 playoff loss

The hated Herm
1st year 9-7
2nd year 8-8
3rd year 9-7
4th year 8-8
4 years -2 wildcard playoff losses


I fixed what our future is going to look like more then likely...