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|Zach|
08-27-2007, 04:38 PM
And when is he supposed to do that?

Everybody says that Damon won the job based on his play last year. His play THIS PRESEASON, as usual, was AWFUL. So it's based on his REGULAR SEASON performance.

The comparison isn't fair.
I think it is fair because we are not holding Croyle up to high standards at all.

Brodie did NOT have to look like Peyton Manning...hell he didn't even have to look like Brad Johnson.

He just had to go out and make some plays and show the fans he can do a few things come game time.

He did none of that. All he had to do was play below average football.

He looks lost and confused...and showed nothing.

HemiEd
08-27-2007, 04:39 PM
I also reject the idea that Chiefs fans were ready to wait for Croyle to come along.

I wasn't, I don't want to put up with being pathetic. Damn I hated it when we were.
However, I know that is what its going to take to be successfull grooming our own QB. However, that is not to be confused with a guarantee that it will work.

|Zach|
08-27-2007, 04:39 PM
If he doesn't know HOW to play QB, why did they draft him? What you're suggesting is that our coaches can't evaluate talent and wasted a first-day draft pick.

There's NO WAY to absolve the coaching staff on this one, sorry.
Nobody is absolving the coaching staff...

But you folks are using all of this past Chiefs dogma to cloud this situation. Nobody at 1 Arrowhead drive WANTED Huard to be the QB of this team.

But Croyle didn't show anything to this team.

|Zach|
08-27-2007, 04:40 PM
However, that is not to be confused with a guarantee that it will work.
Exactly.

Logical
08-27-2007, 04:40 PM
http://diy.despair.com/output/poster11792742.jpg

That is so perfect I am thinking of making it my screensaver.

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 04:41 PM
The kid needs to show he can pass it to our players.

Then give him the chance in more than 3 meaningless PS games, with a full playbook, and all of our offfensive starters at his disposal.

I'd bet if you asked Indy fans if the 16-26 record over the 1997 and 1998 season was worth it, they say yes.....

And they've had ONE season with less than 10 wins since.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 04:43 PM
I think it is fair because we are not holding Croyle up to high standards at all.

Brodie did NOT have to look like Peyton Manning...hell he didn't even have to look like Brad Johnson.

He just had to go out and make some plays and show the fans he can do a few things come game time.

He did none of that. All he had to do was play below average football.

He looks lost and confused...and showed nothing.

He scored the only TD of the preseason until 4 minutes left in last Thursday's game. He had something like double the first downs that Huard did.

We chose a QB based on playing not to lose, plain and simple.

The fact that "all he had to do was play below average football" says it all.

The Chiefs are among the worst 5 franchises in the league.

|Zach|
08-27-2007, 04:43 PM
Then give him the chance in more than 3 meaningless PS games, with a full playbook, and all of our offfensive starters at his disposal.

I'd bet if you asked Indy fans if the 16-26 record over the 1997 and 1998 season was worth it, they say yes.....

And they've had ONE season with less than 10 wins since.
I think they would be willing to take on the "Hey we have a young QB and he is going to do some good things and bad things" thing but it looked more like "Hey we have this young QB and he looks lost while other time looks like he doesn't know how to play the game of football"

All he had to do was look below average and competent.

He didn't.

Logical
08-27-2007, 04:43 PM
The kid needs to show he can pass it to our players.Sure would have been nice to see what he could have done with LJ to relieve some of the pressure.

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 04:44 PM
But you folks are using all of this past Chiefs dogma to cloud this situation. Nobody at 1 Arrowhead drive WANTED Huard to be the QB of this team.

You might want to rethink that one, Zach,

I'll give you a hint.

His name starts with "C" and ends with "arl Peterson."

|Zach|
08-27-2007, 04:44 PM
The Chiefs are among the worst 5 franchises in the league.
You are being a total drama queen.

DaneMcCloud
08-27-2007, 04:44 PM
If your argument is where Croyle was drafted, let's have a look at our quarterbacks for the last decade, shall we?

* Trent Green was drafted as the twenty sixth pick in the eighth round and 222nd overall by the San Diego Chargers

* Elvis Grbac was drafted in the eighth round of the 1993 NFL Draft by the 49ers.

* Steve Bono Drafted: Selected by the Minnesota Vikings in the sixth round (142nd pick overall) of the 1985 NFL draft.

* Joe Montana was selected by the San Francisco 49ers in the third round of the 1979 NFL Draft.

* Dave Krieg - was not chosen in the NFL draft but picked up as undrafted free agent

If that is indeed your criteria, he's the highest drafted QB on the list. So he should start right?

Um, no. That was not my "argument". Apparently, you didn't read the entire thread.

Croyle is not ready to start. End of story. I don't know why this is so difficult for so many to understand.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 04:45 PM
Nobody is absolving the coaching staff...

But you folks are using all of this past Chiefs dogma to cloud this situation. Nobody at 1 Arrowhead drive WANTED Huard to be the QB of this team.

But Croyle didn't show anything to this team.

BULLSHIT.

Carl himself openly advocated for Huard.

And he won.

|Zach|
08-27-2007, 04:45 PM
You might want to rethink that one, Zach,

I'll give you a hint.

His name starts with "C" and ends with "arl Peterson."
Bullshit. Why would he want that?

He could be the one to take credit for drafting a stud QB starter out of the third round.

What would Peterson have to lose by Croyle doing well on the field.

These responses are just getting silly and without logic now.

|Zach|
08-27-2007, 04:45 PM
BULLSHIT.

Carl himself openly advocated for Huard.

And he won.
Why wouldn't he? He wanted a QB on the field that knew how to play football.

Chief Henry
08-27-2007, 04:46 PM
Of course, that's not what I'm saying.

All of those guys are CREATIVE. They're not afraid to change things up, to take risks, to think "outside the box".

Herm displays none of those qualities.



How creative can a coach be with our current offensive line.
Not trying to be argumentive, but early in the post some one mention'd our o' line problems. Any QB we have back there is going to be on
his azz or running for his life more than his comfort zone.

Our O line better open up lanes for LJ or we're sunk, because they sure can't pass block, at least they've not proven they can do that yet.

Like I said in a thread last Friday some where, the best thing about that
SAINTS debackle is that we can't get any worse. I hope I don't
eat those words this season.

FAX
08-27-2007, 04:46 PM
A lot of quarterbacks who have gone on to great success looked terrible in their first outings. It's perfectly normal, Mr. |Zach|. The fact is that you don't launch and support a young quarterback based solely on wins/losses. You develop them over time and you must be patient with their mistakes and growing pains. It's the only way.

Downfield is one of the few exceptions to this rule having sprung fully grown from Venus' armpit with a pair of cleats in his mouth.

FAX

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 04:46 PM
You are being a total drama queen.

Yep. Over the top, even. And it was a long time coming. LONG overdue. I defended these clowns for too long. Hopefully, all of this drame will cause more people get the hint.

The sooner Carl Peterson and Herman Edwards are gone, the better off we'll all be.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 04:47 PM
Why wouldn't he? He wanted a QB on the field that knew how to play football.

He wanted a QB on the field that could get us to 9-7 and make sure all the tickets are sold.

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 04:47 PM
I think they would be willing to take on the "Hey we have a young QB and he is going to do some good things and bad things" thing but it looked more like "Hey we have this young QB and he looks lost while other time looks like he doesn't know how to play the game of football"

All he had to do was look below average and competent.

He didn't.

He made THREE bad throws. Three. People are making this WAY more than it is. All because they are scared shitless to start a rookie QB.

If the shoe was on the other foot, people would be defending Huard tooth and nail.

The OL sucks.

His WR's keep dropping the ball.

Penalties have stalled drives.

Why the double standard?

DaKCMan AP
08-27-2007, 04:48 PM
This thread is soooooooooooooooo 8 hours ago.

|Zach|
08-27-2007, 04:48 PM
A lot of quarterbacks who have gone on to great success looked terrible in their first outings. It's perfectly normal, Mr. |Zach|. The fact is that you don't launch and support a young quarterback based solely on wins/losses. You develop them over time and you must be patient with their mistakes and growing pains. It's the only way.

Downfield is one of the few exceptions to this rule having sprung fully grown from Venus' armpit with a pair of cleats in his mouth.

FAX
I have no problem taking some of those hits...like I said I prob would have pulled the trigger on Croyle but it is totally understandable for them to have made the decision they did.

I am all about a young guy who does some good but makes some mistakes along the way.

I will let the guy who makes some mistakes...and then makes more sit on the bench until he can figure his shit out.

|Zach|
08-27-2007, 04:50 PM
He made THREE bad throws. Three. People are making this WAY more than it is. All because they are scared shitless to start a rookie QB.
Three bad throws?

Did you watch the games?

Nobody who watched the games...even Croyle supporters can type "He made 3 bad throws" without laughing.

Coach
08-27-2007, 04:50 PM
Shaking head in pity*

Teams actually will have GAME FILM to prepare for Damon now. They'll notice all his quirks. Lots of back up QB's have 'instant success' and then it tapers off after some film is released. Like Tommy Maddox. Remember how Touchdown Tommy became Turnover Tommy after about 6 or 7 games?

I'm curious....

Am I the only person that's bothered that a career back up who took less than half the training camp snaps with the first unit (Herm said Croyle would get more 1st team reps) got injured and didn't play or practice for a week, won't play next week... a guy who has thrown 9 passes in the preseason (one was badly overthrown and intercepted) is not going to be ready for the season?

Huard is the starter, I get it, I can't control it... but there is almost no chance in hell he's going to be ready IMO.

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 04:51 PM
Um, no. That was not my "argument". Apparently, you didn't read the entire thread.

Croyle is not ready to start. End of story. I don't know why this is so difficult for so many to understand.

Because he doesn't NEED to be ready.

We're going NOWHERE regardless.

And he's not going to get READY by sitting on the goddamn bench.

I was lucky enough to speak to Kurt Warner at a charity function in STL once, and he told me emphatically:

There is no substitute for game experience. Period. Sitting on the sidelines watching cannot and will not prepare a QB for what he will see and have to react to on the field on Sunday.

|Zach|
08-27-2007, 04:52 PM
Shaking head in pity*

Teams actually will have GAME FILM to prepare for Damon now. They'll notice all his quirks. Lots of back up QB's have 'instant success' and then it tapers off after some film is released. Like Tommy Maddox. Remember how Touchdown Tommy became Turnover Tommy after about 6 or 7 games?

I'm curious....

Am I the only person that's bothered that a career back up who took less than half the training camp snaps with the first unit (Herm said Croyle would get more 1st team reps) got injured and didn't play or practice for a week, won't play next week... a guy who has thrown 9 passes in the preseason (one was badly overthrown and intercepted) is not going to be ready for the season?

Huard is the starter, I get it, I can't control it... but there is almost no chance in hell he's going to be ready IMO.
All of this is upsetting...

You know why?

Because Croyle wasn't it good enough to beat out the player you described above.

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 04:52 PM
Three bad throws?

Did you watch the games?

Nobody who watched the games...even Croyle supporters can type "He made 3 bad throws" without laughing.

I watched and rewatched every game.

Name the others.

I haven't seen a blatant Huard-esq overthrow.

I haven't seen a blatant Green-esq underthrow.

I've seen quite a few balls right where they need to be dropped.

I've seen several balls thrown away because of coverage or pressure.

Name the others.

|Zach|
08-27-2007, 04:53 PM
Because he doesn't NEED to be ready.

We're going NOWHERE regardless.

And he's not going to get READY by sitting on the goddamn bench.

I was lucky enough to speak to Kurt Warner at a charity function in STL once, and he told me emphatically:

There is no substitute for game experience. Period. Sitting on the sidelines watching cannot and will not prepare a QB for what he will see and have to react to on the field on Sunday.
Of course you also think he only made 3 bad passes...

FAX
08-27-2007, 04:53 PM
I must say, that's a little cruel, Mr. Coach.

Downfield was clearly better than 6 of the 117 quarterbacks to play so far this pre-season.

FAX

dirk digler
08-27-2007, 04:54 PM
A lot of quarterbacks who have gone on to great success looked terrible in their first outings. It's perfectly normal, Mr. |Zach|. The fact is that you don't launch and support a young quarterback based solely on wins/losses. You develop them over time and you must be patient with their mistakes and growing pains. It's the only way.


FAX

I said this alot yesterday Mr. Fax but the Chiefs aren't in rebuilding mode like many here thought they were. Herm even said yesterday when he made the decision we are doing this to win now not next year.

the Talking Can
08-27-2007, 04:56 PM
I think they would be willing to take on the "Hey we have a young QB and he is going to do some good things and bad things" thing but it looked more like "Hey we have this young QB and he looks lost while other time looks like he doesn't know how to play the game of football"

All he had to do was look below average and competent.

He didn't.

at least you're dishonest when your hysterical....

Croyle flashed several times in the preseason...the most obvious being his TD drive...the ONLY TD drive. And he did this without a starting LT, a starting RB, a starting blocking TE, and a #1 draft pick WR who showed up late. He didn't even throw Wilson under the bus when he ran the wrong route, Croyle took all the blame...that's sounds like leadership to me.

His arm is stronger and it was obvious that we opened up the play book when he was in, and shut it down when Huard was in.

Croyles only sin was doing what young QBs do....make mistakes. He given zero real games to prove he could play in a real game. That's the Chiefs for you. Develop a QB, but only if they play like a Veteran.

Huard - who is a veteran! - looked like shit, didn't score, threw the ball everywhere but the WRs hands, and injured himself...and was declared the starter by Carl anyway.

And now, instead of investing in the future, we're investing in a 34yr old career backup that no team in the league would sniff as a starter. This is TIME WASTED for the franchise.

9-7

"win now"

"window of opportunity"

|Zach|
08-27-2007, 04:57 PM
I watched and rewatched every game.

Name the others.

I haven't seen a blatant Huard-esq overthrow.

I haven't seen a blatant Green-esq underthrow.

I've seen quite a few balls right where they need to be dropped.

I've seen several balls thrown away because of coverage or pressure.

Name the others.
You haven't seen an underthrow or overthrow?

You are blind or retarded.

Maybe both.

|Zach|
08-27-2007, 04:59 PM
at least you're dishonest when your hysterical....

Croyle flashed several times in the preseason...the most obvious being his TD drive...the ONLY TD drive. And he did this without a starting LT, a starting RB, a starting blocking TE, and a #1 draft pick WR who showed up late. He didn't even throw Wilson under the bus when he ran the wrong route, Croyle took all the blame...that's sounds like leadership to me.

His arm is stronger and it was obvious that we opened up the play book when he was in, and shut it down when Huard was in.

Croyles only sin was doing what young QBs do....make mistakes. He given zero real games to prove he could play in a real game. That's the Chiefs for you. Develop a QB, but only if they play like a Veteran.

Huard - who is a veteran! - looked like shit, didn't score, threw the ball everywhere but the WRs hands, and injured himself...and was declared the starter by Carl anyway.

And now, instead of investing in the future, we're investing in a 34yr old career backup that no team in the league would sniff as a starter. This is TIME WASTED for the franchise.

9-7

"win now"

"window of opportunity"

I am as angry that Croyle wasn't good enough to beat out Huard as you guys are angry at Herm for the Chiefs sins of the past.

DaKCMan AP
08-27-2007, 04:59 PM
Shaking head in pity*

Teams actually will have GAME FILM to prepare for Damon now. They'll notice all his quirks. Lots of back up QB's have 'instant success' and then it tapers off after some film is released. Like Tommy Maddox. Remember how Touchdown Tommy became Turnover Tommy after about 6 or 7 games?

I'm curious....

Am I the only person that's bothered that a career back up who took less than half the training camp snaps with the first unit (Herm said Croyle would get more 1st team reps) got injured and didn't play or practice for a week, won't play next week... a guy who has thrown 9 passes in the preseason (one was badly overthrown and intercepted) is not going to be ready for the season?

Huard is the starter, I get it, I can't control it... but there is almost no chance in hell he's going to be ready IMO.

If your assessment is correct, then Huard will suck and ultimately will get the hook. Insert Brodie Croyle and everybody's happy. What's the big ****ing deal?

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 04:59 PM
Shaking head in pity*

Teams actually will have GAME FILM to prepare for Damon now. They'll notice all his quirks. Lots of back up QB's have 'instant success' and then it tapers off after some film is released. Like Tommy Maddox. Remember how Touchdown Tommy became Turnover Tommy after about 6 or 7 games?

I'm curious....

Am I the only person that's bothered that a career back up who took less than half the training camp snaps with the first unit (Herm said Croyle would get more 1st team reps) got injured and didn't play or practice for a week, won't play next week... a guy who has thrown 9 passes in the preseason (one was badly overthrown and intercepted) is not going to be ready for the season?

Huard is the starter, I get it, I can't control it... but there is almost no chance in hell he's going to be ready IMO.

Nope.

I mentioned it in one of the other threads.

I'm sure he'll be sharp as a tack.


:rolleyes:

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 05:00 PM
You haven't seen an underthrow or overthrow?

You are blind or retarded.

Maybe both.

You still haven't named one.

|Zach|
08-27-2007, 05:02 PM
You still haven't named one.
What the hell am I supposed to do? I saw it with my own eyes? I hate to be the one to break it to you. They don't make highlight videos of shitty throws by QBs who don't look like they belong in big leagues.

Should I reference my play by play notes with times tracked?

'Hamas' Jenkins
08-27-2007, 05:02 PM
I've never been so psyched to root against my own team as I am this year. Granted, it's for the long term sanity of the fanbase and my china collection, but nevertheless it's liberating

I think we should all take a Fight Club-esque viewpoint with this franchise--lose all hope. Losing all hope is freedom.

It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything.

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 05:02 PM
at least you're dishonest when your hysterical....

Croyle flashed several times in the preseason...the most obvious being his TD drive...the ONLY TD drive. And he did this without a starting LT, a starting RB, a starting blocking TE, and a #1 draft pick WR who showed up late. He didn't even throw Wilson under the bus when he ran the wrong route, Croyle took all the blame...that's sounds like leadership to me.

His arm is stronger and it was obvious that we opened up the play book when he was in, and shut it down when Huard was in.

Croyles only sin was doing what young QBs do....make mistakes. He given zero real games to prove he could play in a real game. That's the Chiefs for you. Develop a QB, but only if they play like a Veteran.

Huard - who is a veteran! - looked like shit, didn't score, threw the ball everywhere but the WRs hands, and injured himself...and was declared the starter by Carl anyway.

And now, instead of investing in the future, we're investing in a 34yr old career backup that no team in the league would sniff as a starter. This is TIME WASTED for the franchise.

9-7

"win now"

"window of opportunity"

Are you blind and retarded too?

:p

dirk digler
08-27-2007, 05:03 PM
You still haven't named one.

I saw 2 really bad INT's one where there was no one around him for 10 feet and he threw it off his back foot and threw a duck.

I was at the game Thursday against the Saints and he was missing receivers every where. He missed Gonzalez at least twice IIRC.

|Zach|
08-27-2007, 05:04 PM
Are you blind and retarded too?

:p
That is totally different.

He is not making ludicrous statements like Croyle only made 3 bad passes and he never under threw or overthrew. He also would never agree with that statement. It is ridiculous.

FAX
08-27-2007, 05:04 PM
Personally, I'd rather be retarded than blind.

Mainly because, if you're retarded, you really won't care if you're blind. I'm pretty sure the Chiefs front office feels the same way.

FAX

|Zach|
08-27-2007, 05:04 PM
I saw 2 really bad INT's one where there was no one around him for 10 feet and he threw it off his back foot and threw a duck.

I was at the game Thursday against the Saints and he was missing receivers every where. He missed Gonzalez at least twice IIRC.
Of course he did. I watched the whole damn Saints game in person. Hell, I am not even counting the INTs, he made bad throws all over the place.

dirk digler
08-27-2007, 05:05 PM
Oh don't forget when he heaved the ball right down the middle of the field and almost got intercepted.

FAX
08-27-2007, 05:07 PM
Of course, if you're blind, you bump into stuff.

But, you do that if you're retarded anyway so it's a wash.

FAX

|Zach|
08-27-2007, 05:08 PM
Everyone said it on this board...it was everyone's prediction.

"It is Croyle's job to lose"

Well he lost it. Plain and simple.

All he had to do was not look horrible. Well...

Woodrow Call
08-27-2007, 05:08 PM
Of course, if you're blind, you bump into stuff.

But, you do that if you're retarded anyway so it's a wash.

FAX
ROFL

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 05:10 PM
I saw 2 really bad INT's one where there was no one around him for 10 feet and he threw it off his back foot and threw a duck.

I was at the game Thursday against the Saints and he was missing receivers every where. He missed Gonzalez at least twice IIRC.

I was at the game too.

There's a HUGE difference between putting the ball between the receiver and the sideline, where only your guy can get it, and a bad throw. He's TAUGHT to error on the side of caution.

He throws that ball the slightest bit BEHIND him, and it's a Pick 6.

THAT'S a BAD THROW.

Not every ****ing incompletion is a bad throw. That's the ****ing point I'm trying to make with Zach.

An incomplete pass isn't the worst thing imaginable. He's not airmailing wide open receivers or throwing the ball in the ****ing dirt 5 yards in fromt of them.

LOCOChief
08-27-2007, 05:12 PM
Are you blind and retarded too?

:p


I've saved a few of your quotes in this thread. I'll be serving them up around week 8 I bet. Talking Can saw the same thing I saw. Green and growing, or ripe and rotting. We've got both what do you want?

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 05:12 PM
Oh don't forget when he heaved the ball right down the middle of the field and almost got intercepted.

The one he was THROWING AWAY?

Almost intercepted?

C'mon.

Holtus even made a comment after the game about that throw.

Paraphrasing:

You'd rather see him put it in the crowd, but he has the arm strength to get away with throwing the ball away deep down the field.

|Zach|
08-27-2007, 05:13 PM
I was at the game too.

There's a HUGE difference between putting the ball between the receiver and the sideline, where only your guy can get it, and a bad throw. He's TAUGHT to error on the side of caution.

He throws that ball the slightest bit BEHIND him, and it's a Pick 6.

THAT'S a BAD THROW.

Not every ****ing incompletion is a bad throw. That's the ****ing point I'm trying to make with Zach.

An incomplete pass isn't the worst thing imaginable. He's not airmailing wide open receivers or throwing the ball in the ****ing dirt 5 yards in fromt of them.
I understand and agree with everything you wrote. Lets just review YOUR comments real quick.

He made three bad passes.

He never over threw.

He never under threw.

How is it my exception to those stupid comments makes me in need for the lecture you just wrote above.

This is coming from a guy who from his own comments seems to be saying that there isn't such thing as a bad pass if it isn't intercepted.


:hmmm:

HemiEd
08-27-2007, 05:13 PM
If your assessment is correct, then Huard will suck and ultimately will get the hook. Insert Brodie Croyle and everybody's happy. What's the big ****ing deal?

No fair being rational!

OctoberFart
08-27-2007, 05:13 PM
Of course you also think he only made 3 bad passes...
3 bad passes all preseason cost you your job....HMMM the Croyle supporters must be blind to think that he only tossed 3 bad passes.

Coach
08-27-2007, 05:14 PM
All of this is upsetting...

You know why?

Because Croyle wasn't it good enough to beat out the player you described above.

Please. Damon went 4-0 against the shitty NFC West, and 1-3 against decent teams. He was humiliated by Pittsburgh, and I think I saw him crying like a little bitch in Miami.

Should I also mention that he had about 8 interceptions that were dropped by baffled defensive backs, who had a "he threw it right to me?" look on their faces?

This is a terrible move. There's no reason to get rid of an old Pro-Bowl quarterback to start an old guy who's never had a starting gig in the NFL in his 11 years. At least, if we play Brodie this year we'll know if we need to draft another QB early next year or not.

Don't forget Huard fumbles the ball every other time he is hit. I have no interest in starting a guy who is more fumble prone than Aaron Brooks, or Dante Culpepper. He will be exposed.

Secondly, Thursday night we had two first year starters at LT and QB, gee I wonder what the problem was?

Awesome, I look forward to a long season of fumbles and whining, and moving for a QB next year.

I don't think Huard will give us a better chance to win. Bring up last season all you want, but the 2007 season is going to be played in the future. I watched Huard play, I know what he brings. The chances of him performing like he did last year and defenders dropping all the gifts he threw to them are about 1/1,000,000.

We're just putting off the inevitable. It think it's stupid that Huard barely played during this 'competition' and won it by default because of that fact. When Huard did play so far, he was horrid.

Not to mention... I like him even less after watching that 3rd Hard Knocks episode... The guy is a whiner. I hate whiners.

Huard threw in inaccurate interception, and overthrew a sure TD to running back who was all of 10 yards away from him... actually, both of those passes were 10 yard passes to WIDE OPEN RECIEVERS

Even drafting a QB is stupid for KC, because we won't let them play.

Mark my words: Chiefs fans will be calling for Damon to be benched by week 4, guaranteed. He got lucky last season, and only played well when Trent was calling his plays. Am I the only one who noticed that he played WORSE than Brodie in his two preseason appearances? He also posted a lower QB rating.

|Zach|
08-27-2007, 05:14 PM
I've saved a few of your quotes in this thread. I'll be serving them up around week 8 I bet. Talking Can saw the same thing I saw. Green and growing, or ripe and rotting. We've got both what do you want?
I am all about green and growing.

If he had shown he was the second part he would have been named the starting QB for the Kansas City Chiefs this year.

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 05:15 PM
I've saved a few of your quotes in this thread. I'll be serving them up around week 8 I bet. Talking Can saw the same thing I saw. Green and growing, or ripe and rotting. We've got both what do you want?


I guess I am ****ing retarded, because I don't get what you're asking......

:)

Coach
08-27-2007, 05:16 PM
If your assessment is correct, then Huard will suck and ultimately will get the hook. Insert Brodie Croyle and everybody's happy. What's the big ****ing deal?

It's CLEAR that Brodie has outperformed Damon in all aspects of the game.

It's also CLEAR that Brodie potentionally have some upside, where Damon has no upside at all.

Come on, the kid has earned it rightfully so right from Day 1. Sure he hasn't looked good during preaseason, but it's obvious that he performed BETTER than Damon has.

|Zach|
08-27-2007, 05:17 PM
Come on, the kid has earned it rightfully so right from Day 1.
I wish you were my boss.

OctoberFart
08-27-2007, 05:19 PM
Then give him the chance in more than 3 meaningless PS games, with a full playbook, and all of our offfensive starters at his disposal.

I'd bet if you asked Indy fans if the 16-26 record over the 1997 and 1998 season was worth it, they say yes.....

And they've had ONE season with less than 10 wins since.

But when you get a QB at number one your team has no where to go but up and Manning showed in the preseason that he had the skill to play the QB position. Croyle's potential skill and Mannings potential skill aren't even comparable.

Coach
08-27-2007, 05:20 PM
I wish you were my boss.

Heh. I wish I was Herman F**king Edwards' boss, becuase I could have easily fire his ass.

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 05:23 PM
I understand and agree with everything you wrote. Lets just review YOUR comments real quick.

He made three bad passes.

He never over threw.

He never under threw.

How is it my exception to those stupid comments makes me in need for the lecture you just wrote above.

This is coming from a guy who from his own comments seems to be saying that there isn't such thing as a bad pass if it isn't intercepted.


:hmmm:

IIRC, I said I didn't see a blatant overthrow/underthrow.

And I'd have been more than happy to stand corrected if you had an example. I thought you might have one you recall specifically. Like Dirk did with the out route to Gonzo. I'm not going back to look at 5 quarters worth of game film over it, and I don't expect you to, either.

And I'm not saying the only bad pass is an intercepted pass. Not at all. But I am saying that not all incomplete passes are bad passes. Sure, the suck on the stat line, but sometimes you have to protect the ball and throw it away. Or put it only where your guy can get it, even if it means an incompletion. People have been bagging on his decision making skills, but don't seem to want to give him credit when he makes a GOOD decision, even if it results in an incompletion.

|Zach|
08-27-2007, 05:24 PM
And I'm not saying the only bad pass is an intercepted pass.
Actually in this case. That is EXACTLY what you were trying to say.

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 05:26 PM
But when you get a QB at number one your team has no where to go but up and Manning showed in the preseason that he had the skill to play the QB position. Croyle's potential skill and Mannings potential skill aren't even comparable.

I'm not comparing Manning and Croyle.

I'm referring the the fear people have for anything less than 8-8.

the Talking Can
08-27-2007, 05:26 PM
I wish he had one of those young QBs who never made a mistake, like other teams seem to find so often...goly gee we're so unlucky...we keep drafting the young QBs that play like young QBs! [/slapping forehead]

|Zach|
08-27-2007, 05:28 PM
I wish he had one of those young QBs who never made a mistake, like other teams seem to find so often...goly gee we're so unlucky...we keep drafting the young QBs that play like young QBs! [/slapping forehead]
If you have to distort the argument of others to make your own points then I guess I can't stop you.

OctoberFart
08-27-2007, 05:30 PM
I'm not comparing Manning and Croyle.

I'm referring the the fear people have for anything less than 8-8.

Croyle will be playing by week 8 if not even sooner.

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 05:30 PM
Actually in this case. That is EXACTLY what you were trying to say.

So you're a mind reader?

I've gone back and re-read my posts, and I don't see anywhere I said that the only bad pass is an intercepted pass.

|Zach|
08-27-2007, 05:32 PM
So you're a mind reader?

I've gone back and re-read my posts, and I don't see anywhere I said that the only bad pass is an intercepted pass.
The only passes you will admit that were bad passes were his interceptions. You also said...(even though you tried to backtrack) that he didn't over throw or under throw a pass.

You won't admit a pass that wasn't an interception was a bad one.

It isn't hard to sort out. :hmmm:

Demonpenz
08-27-2007, 05:33 PM
I care for the name on front, not the back

DaneMcCloud
08-27-2007, 05:41 PM
Because he doesn't NEED to be ready.

We're going NOWHERE regardless.

And he's not going to get READY by sitting on the goddamn bench.

I was lucky enough to speak to Kurt Warner at a charity function in STL once, and he told me emphatically:

There is no substitute for game experience. Period. Sitting on the sidelines watching cannot and will not prepare a QB for what he will see and have to react to on the field on Sunday.

Okay, so the team's going nowhere, with or without Croyle at the helm.

So, why start him against one of the best defensive lines in the AFC (on the road), then send him up to Chicago shortly thereafter? That makes no sense to me.

If Croyle has any future with the Chiefs, he'll be starting shortly before or after the bye week.

There's no reason to start him at Houston. Not with this pathetic offensive line.

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 05:42 PM
The only passes you will admit that were bad passes were his interceptions. You also said...(even though you tried to backtrack) that he didn't over throw or under throw a pass.

You won't admit a pass that wasn't an interception was a bad one.

It isn't hard to sort out. :hmmm:

Ah.

Good 'ole post # 270.

Crucifying me over a bad choice of words,and I deserve it. I meant one thing and typed something different, and you've carried it all through this page without knowing what I meant. I made a mistake. Plain and simple. You can call it backtracking all you want, suit yourself.

You win, Zach.

BigMeatballDave
08-27-2007, 05:43 PM
Nobody wants this to be the situation.

Be mad at the Brodie Croyle. He is the one who doesn't know how to play QB and put us in this situation.Dude, I truely though you were smarter than this...
:shake:

BigRock
08-27-2007, 05:48 PM
At least, if we play Brodie this year we'll know if we need to draft another QB early next year or not.
Is that a major reason why people wanted to see Croyle start? So that if he sucked we could draft a QB with our first pick next year?

Because unless Croyle imploded like Ryan Leaf and fell down in the fetal position sucking his thumb during games, that was never, ever, ever, ever going to happen.

BigMeatballDave
08-27-2007, 05:50 PM
Downfield is one of the few exceptions to this rule having sprung fully grown from Venus' armpit with a pair of cleats in his mouth.

FAXLMAO

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 05:50 PM
Okay, so the team's going nowhere, with or without Croyle at the helm.

So, why start him against one of the best defensive lines in the AFC (on the road), then send him up to Chicago shortly thereafter? That makes no sense to me.

If Croyle has any future with the Chiefs, he'll be starting shortly before or after the bye week.

There's no reason to start him at Houston. Not with this pathetic offensive line.

Should we pull him again against the Chargers at Arrowhead?

They have a pretty damn good defense.

I'm not comparing Croyle to the following guys, talent wise(because we don't know yet), but:

Peyton Manning threw 28 INT's his rookie year. He overcame that adversity down the road.

Troy Aikman was sacked something like 68 times in his 1st year and a half. He too overcame that adversity.

John Elway is the most sacked QB in the history of the NFL.....

You get the picture.

Everyone has resigned Croyle to failure before he's ever played a meaningful game. What happens if he was given the chance and succeeded? Even if he didn't, we'd get a chance to see how he responds.

If you or anyone else is worried about him getting hurt, then he shouldn;t play period. IIRC, his knee injury at Alabama came on a non-contact play. We can't protect him forever. He's gonna take his knocks. But I'd rather know now than later.

redbrian
08-27-2007, 05:51 PM
Huard has far more years of experience of being on his ass (from sitting on the bench); this will come in very handy, because behind the play of the KC Chiefs O-line that is where he will be the majority of the game.

Let Huard take all of the punishment until (if ever, this year), the line gets its shit together.

Why you folks think anyone is going to be worth a damn quarterbacking behind the play of this line is unreal.

Hell the qb is going to have a hard time just handing the ball off without half of the defensive line in the back field.

DaKCMan AP
08-27-2007, 05:55 PM
What is truly unbelievable is the myth perpetuating throughout this board that we have an extremely dismal offensive line.

THERE ARE SEVERAL TEAMS WHOSE OFFENSIVE LINES ARE WORSE THAN OURS

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 05:59 PM
What is truly unbelievable is the myth perpetuating throughout this board that we have an extremely dismal offensive line.

THERE ARE SEVERAL TEAMS WHOSE OFFENSIVE LINES ARE WORSE THAN OURS

Based on what we've SEEN, I can understand the frustration.

Getting Svitek back on the bench where he belongs and Turley playing regularly at RT will help more than people imagine.

No cohesion when you're cycling guys in and out, due to injuries or evaluation.

It'll be fine once the same 5 guys are playing week-in, week-out.

redbrian
08-27-2007, 06:00 PM
What is truly unbelievable is the myth perpetuating throughout this board that we have an extremely dismal offensive line.

THERE ARE SEVERAL TEAMS WHOSE OFFENSIVE LINES ARE WORSE THAN OURS

Then they must really suck, cause the Chiefs line sucks more than a French Quarter hooker during a convention of Southern Baptist (may have to far with that one, but oh well).

FAX
08-27-2007, 06:06 PM
What is truly unbelievable is the myth perpetuating throughout this board that we have an extremely dismal offensive line.

THERE ARE SEVERAL TEAMS WHOSE OFFENSIVE LINES ARE WORSE THAN OURS

Speaking for myself alone, I have been very spoiled by our offensive line for many, many years, Mr. DaKCMan AP. It's difficult to think of a Chiefs team with an offensive line that isn't the envy of the league.

We didn't demonstrate excellence in either the run game or in pass protection last year and, so far, we haven't seemed to impress. Hopefully, when the Big Apple returns, things will improve. Until then, the Doom Train dining car will be serving sack lunches.

FAX

DaKCMan AP
08-27-2007, 06:14 PM
I understand we've been spoiled.

However, we have an excellent interior with Waters-Wiegman-Welbourne. Once McIntosh returns we will be solid at both tackle positions with him and Turley. Will we be the dominant force circa 2003-2004? No. Will we be a top-15 and possibly top-10 line? Yes, and they will be more than serviceable.

DaKCMan AP
08-27-2007, 06:15 PM
BTW, for entertainment value, here is an article ranking the offensive lines based upon last year's production. I think most would agree our line is improved this season over last year's squad.

http://www.nfl.com/fantasy/story?id=09000d5d80025d3e&template=without-video&confirm=true

FAX
08-27-2007, 06:20 PM
I understand we've been spoiled.

However, we have an excellent interior with Waters-Wiegman-Welbourne. Once McIntosh returns we will be solid at both tackle positions with him and Turley. Will we be the dominant force circa 2003-2004? No. Will we be a top-15 and possibly top-10 line? Yes, and they will be more than serviceable.

I hope you're right, Mr. DaKCMan AP. I sincerely do. Maybe I'm just a big worry wart. Or, maybe I'm a concerned, hairy mole on a redheaded cheerleader's titty. I don't know.

But I'm troubled that, between Solari's sophisticated playcalling, Herm's aggressive attitude toward offense, and Downfield's short passing game, the enemy will continue to flood the box and blitz and dog and stunt us to hell and gone.

FAX

the Talking Can
08-27-2007, 06:23 PM
I hope you're right, Mr. DaKCMan AP. I sincerely do. Maybe I'm just a big worry wart. Or, maybe I'm a concerned, hairy mole on a redheaded cheerleader's titty. I don't know.

But I'm troubled that, between Solari's sophisticated playcalling, Herm's aggressive attitude toward offense, and Downfield's short passing game, the enemy will continue to flood the box and blitz and dog and stunt us to hell and gone.

FAX

ROFL


see, you're almost to the last stage of grieving: acceptance.....I'm still in stage 1: WTF? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

keg in kc
08-27-2007, 07:13 PM
Actually, regarding the interior line, it's not as strong as you think. Wiegmann works well in space. We don't, however, seem to run that kind of blocking style as much. We're more of a drive-blocking line now, and trying to do it with a 280-pound center just doesn't work. He gets abused. And we can't give him guard help all the time, because of the tackles.

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 07:17 PM
Actually, regarding the interior line, it's not as strong as you think. Wiegmann works well in space. We don't, however, seem to run that kind of blocking style as much. We're more of a drive-blocking line now, and trying to do it with a 280-pound center just doesn't work. He gets abused. And we can't give him guard help all the time, because of the tackles.

KC Fish and I were talking about that at the game.

Casey is a great pulling center, as you say great in space.

He's not a plow ahead center.

I think Will Shields play suffered some last year because of it as well. Having a different RT next to him every other game didn't help either.....

LOCOChief
08-27-2007, 07:38 PM
I guess I am ****ing retarded, because I don't get what you're asking......

:)

My bad, incoherent post and wrong reply. Im in agreement with you on this thread

Bill Parcells
08-28-2007, 08:10 PM
I think alot of people here are surprised at the outrage.

Of course, they're asking themselves "What took so long for this dumb**** to figure out that Carl and Herm are what they are."

No wonder people have been laughing at me all this time. I was defending a bunch of people that didn't deserve defending.

:eek:
WOW, how did I miss this thread. It took a while to read the whole thing, but I must say it's a very entertaining thread you started Mr.ismaqe.

Logical
08-29-2007, 09:11 PM
I nominate this thread for the HOC, I have a strong feeling it will belong.

Cochise
08-29-2007, 09:22 PM
Croyle 16/36 191 yd, 1 TD 3 INT - Rat. 35.76
Huard 5/9, 101 yd, 0 TD, 1 INT - Rat. 55.55
Printers 19/34, 202 yd, 0 TD, 0 INT - Rat. 73.41

OnTheWarpath58
08-29-2007, 10:04 PM
Croyle 16/36 191 yd, 1 TD 3 INT - Rat. 35.76
Huard 5/9, 101 yd, 0 TD, 1 INT - Rat. 55.55
Printers 19/34, 202 yd, 0 TD, 0 INT - Rat. 73.41

Where did those come from?

NFL.com has Huard listed at 5/9 45 yards. His rating is listed at 29 something but is wrong. The average is 48.9.

The math sucks on that site. Brodie's is wrong too.....

Brodie's rating should be 42.0....

Not that it matters.

orange
08-29-2007, 10:12 PM
Where did those come from?

NFL.com has Huard listed at 5/9 45 yards. His rating is listed at 29 something but is wrong. The average is 48.9.

The math sucks on that site. Brodie's is wrong too.....

Brodie's rating should be 42.0....

Not that it matters.


Here's the stats: http://www.nfl.com/teams/kansascitychiefs/statistics?team=KC

I think this is the site you referred to. The 29 rating for Huard is right, though.

Computation: http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin/calc-pe.pl?a=9&c=5&y=45&t=0&i=1

Here's the site: http://football.stassen.com/pass-eff/

The overall rating for the Chiefs as a team is 52.33: http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin/calc-pe.pl?a=84&c=45&y=433&t=1&i=4

OnTheWarpath58
08-29-2007, 10:14 PM
Here's the stats: http://www.nfl.com/teams/kansascitychiefs/statistics?team=KC

I think this is the site you referred to. The 29 rating for Huard is right, though.

Computation: http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin/calc-pe.pl?a=9&c=5&y=45&t=0&i=1


Ah. Thanks Orange. Good catch. I have no flippin idea why I was averaging those numbers....dumb.

Zouk
08-29-2007, 10:31 PM
Bullshit. Why would he want that?

He could be the one to take credit for drafting a stud QB starter out of the third round.

What would Peterson have to lose by Croyle doing well on the field.

These responses are just getting silly and without logic now.

I think the best scene in Hard Knocks tonight was Curl, Solari, and Herm just watching all the throws.

Brodie was bad. Consistently. In every game - even in almost every practice report. It's just that some people are so in love with the rocket arm that they forget that Jeff George is Whitlock's intern while Chad Pennington goes to the playoffs every year.

Herm desperately wanted Brodie to win the job. It was painfully obvious again tonight on the show. But like he said, there was nothing he could do with what was on tape.

DaneMcCloud
08-29-2007, 10:42 PM
I think the best scene in Hard Knocks tonight was Curl, Solari, and Herm just watching all the throws.

Brodie was bad. Consistently. In every game - even in almost every practice report. It's just that some people are so in love with the rocket arm that they forget that Jeff George is Whitlock's intern while Chad Pennington goes to the playoffs every year.

Herm desperately wanted Brodie to win the job. It was painfully obvious again tonight on the show. But like he said, there was nothing he could do with what was on tape.

This is impossible! The Chiefs are turning their backs on the future!! 8-8 or 9-7, here we come! The Chiefs are in disarray and Carl Peterson is almost as evil as George Bush!

Brodie isn't ready. He may never be "ready". It would be stupid for the Chiefs organization to start Brodie Croyle in Houston when he's clearly not ready to start for an NFL team.

Calcountry
08-29-2007, 10:57 PM
He did that last year. Were we mad then?If he did that last year, get us to the playoffs, then can somebody tell me WTF Herm didn't even let him play in the second half of the playoff game?

You play to win the game.

DaneMcCloud
08-30-2007, 01:47 AM
You play to win the game.

You mostly play to win. Unless it's not convenient.

44Page44
08-30-2007, 04:02 AM
Most people state they want Brodie to play to see if he is the QBOTF this year. This will be his second year.

People also state that so and so sucked (insert PM or other QB used an an example, etc. etc.) their first year but want to play BQ now to see if we need to draft a new QBOTF.

I think fans use one argument to back their side and then state a different fact with different results to try to prove their side while it actually proves the reverse.
We probably still would not know after a year. If he threw 20 interceptions would these same people that use PM as an argument still stick by BC next year?

Rausch
08-30-2007, 08:05 AM
Most people state they want Brodie to play to see if he is the QBOTF this year. This will be his second year.

People also state that so and so sucked (insert PM or other QB used an an example, etc. etc.) their first year but want to play BQ now to see if we need to draft a new QBOTF.

I think fans use one argument to back their side and then state a different fact with different results to try to prove their side while it actually proves the reverse.
We probably still would not know after a year. If he threw 20 interceptions would these same people that use PM as an argument still stick by BC next year?

Exactly.

Lets play (insert QB) now and see if he's the future of the team. Of course, any young QB will make mistakes so odds are year one he'll play like poo.

The important thing though is that people have something to complain about.

Reerun_KC
08-30-2007, 08:18 AM
This is impossible! The Chiefs are turning their backs on the future!! 8-8 or 9-7, here we come! The Chiefs are in disarray and Carl Peterson is almost as evil as George Bush!

Brodie isn't ready. He may never be "ready". It would be stupid for the Chiefs organization to start Brodie Croyle in Houston when he's clearly not ready to start for an NFL team.


Then Why draft him? Why Draft a player that has so much more potential and promise then your Hall of Fame Backup?

If you have no desire to play him or you dont believe in developing him into a starting QB, then why draft him?

Stick with the status qou, keep the pathetic backup QB carousel rolling through Arrowhead and never compete for a championship.... Its what fans want... 9-7 and hope for a first round playoff bitch slapping....

Otter
08-30-2007, 08:18 AM
Peterson only has two more years left on his contract correct?

Reerun_KC
08-30-2007, 08:25 AM
Peterson only has two more years left on his contract correct?


I think so... And Herm has the same amount as well..

in 2 years, regardless of the record. When Carl and Herm both leave. It will feel like we have won the superbowl....

I cant wait for that day....

Chiefnj2
08-30-2007, 08:26 AM
Then Why draft him? Why Draft a player that has so much more potential and promise then your Hall of Fame Backup?

If you have no desire to play him or you dont believe in developing him into a starting QB, then why draft him?

Stick with the status qou, keep the pathetic backup QB carousel rolling through Arrowhead and never compete for a championship.... Its what fans want... 9-7 and hope for a first round playoff bitch slapping....
They took him in the third round. That is generally a developmental type position. Perhaps Croyle isn't developing as they hoped.

Reerun_KC
08-30-2007, 08:35 AM
They took him in the third round. That is generally a developmental type position. Perhaps Croyle isn't developing as they hoped.

ROFL... Yeah your probably right, but from what I have seen from Hard Knocks... Carl wasnt about to start this season with Croyle... Remember Huard said he earned this job, and his jaws and ass is still sore from earning it....

Chiefnj2
08-30-2007, 08:50 AM
ROFL... Yeah your probably right, but from what I have seen from Hard Knocks... Carl wasnt about to start this season with Croyle... Remember Huard said he earned this job, and his jaws and ass is still sore from earning it....
Huard earned it with his play last year and by not making as many mistakes as Croyle.

I haven't watched Hard Knocks this season so I can't comment other than to say I'm not sure how realistic a reality show that takes 800 hours of video a week and boils it down to 55 minutes really is. Editors can make any player look great and any player look bad, the same with coaches and execs.

Croyle will have had the opportunity to get the majority of snaps with the first team all of camp and start 3 of 4 preseason games. Herm certainly gave him the opportunity to win the job. He lost it.

Count Alex's Losses
11-07-2008, 08:55 PM
Good times.

I wish htismaqe would come back.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-07-2008, 09:10 PM
Good times.

I wish htismaqe would come back.

His head would explode. There has been a fifty-fold increase in football-related dumbassery since he left. Like some of the dipshits arguing that we should draft a right tackle or middle linebacker with a top 3 pick--it's just lunacy.

the Talking Can
11-07-2008, 09:44 PM
ah yes...True Fans expressing their love of Huard...

and people wonder why this franchise blows ass...

we postponed a year of rebuilding for damon freaking huard...with the support of the True Fans

the Talking Can
11-07-2008, 09:47 PM
I don't know ANYTHING about Croyle because I haven't seen him PLAY.

He may turn out to be a complete bust - in that case, we should have plenty of advance warning so that we can draft another QB.

This isn't about Croyle anymore, it's about the short-sightedness of starting Damon Huard.


this is the truth that True Fans could never grasp or admit...

god they're fucking stupid....and we still have hootie


sigh

Count Alex's Losses
11-07-2008, 09:47 PM
ah yes...True Fans expressing their love of Huard...

and people wonder why this franchise blows ass...

we postponed a year of rebuilding for damon freaking huard...with the support of the True Fans

Did we?

Croyle would have just gotten hurt if he had started that year. We know that for sure, now.

So either way, you get Huard.

Woohoo!

the Talking Can
11-07-2008, 09:49 PM
and the same retarded logic in this thread - "Let's play Huard! Woo-hoo!!" - is the retarded logic being used to argue that we shouldn't draft Stafford...


good god I fucking hate True Fans....