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htismaqe
08-27-2007, 09:00 AM
Damon Huard is a stop gap QB with no upside.

Herman Edwards is a stop gap HC with no upside.

The less time Croyle plays now, the more he has left in the tank when Edwards and Peterson are gone.

StcChief
08-27-2007, 09:02 AM
We still may see Croyle by mid-season.

Huard maybe able to carry us to bye week at 3-4 or 4-3.

TEX
08-27-2007, 09:03 AM
Damon Huard is a stop gap QB with no upside.

Herman Edwards is a stop gap HC with no upside.

The less time Croyle plays now, the more he has left in the tank when Edwards and Peterson are gone.

:clap:

You're baaaaaaack. This represents real progress - I'm proud of you!

Redrum_69
08-27-2007, 09:07 AM
Those posters with less than 70,000 posts are :loser: 's

siberian khatru
08-27-2007, 09:08 AM
Maybe we should cryogenically freeze Croyle and thaw him out when we have all the administrators, coaches and players we need to contend.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 09:13 AM
We still may see Croyle by mid-season.

Huard maybe able to carry us to bye week at 3-4 or 4-3.

Make no mistake about it. If we're 3-4 or 4-3 at the bye week, we'll be "in the chase" according to Herm and Carl. Be prepared for Huard to start the entire season.

Reerun_KC
08-27-2007, 09:14 AM
We still may see Croyle by mid-season.

Huard maybe able to carry us to bye week at 3-4 or 4-3.


No chance if we are 3-4 or 4-3 for Huard to get benched...

We would be right on track for that 9-7 and embarrasing playoff loss that KC Chiefs fans covet so much...

Dr. Facebook Fever
08-27-2007, 09:15 AM
Just wondering... will people be mad about Huard starting if he performs well and gets us to the playoffs?

el borracho
08-27-2007, 09:17 AM
Eh. Doesn't matter which one starts the season- with our Oline all of our QBs going to die.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 09:17 AM
Just wondering... will people be mad about Huard starting if he performs well and gets us to the playoffs?

He did that last year. Were we mad then?

Reerun_KC
08-27-2007, 09:18 AM
Just wondering... will people be mad about Huard starting if he performs well and gets us to the playoffs?


At what cost? to do this agian next year? Huard isnt going to lead this team to a superbowl and we will never know about Croyle will we?

I dont know about you but 14 years since our last playoff win... Status Quo isnt getting the job done is it?

Once DownField Big Game gets there and faces real defenses... What then?

DaKCMan AP
08-27-2007, 09:21 AM
At what cost? to do this agian next year? Huard isnt going to lead this team to a superbowl and we will never know about Croyle will we?



Yeah, you need Peyton Manning-type QBs to win it all. Guys like Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Ben Roethlisberger, Jake Delhomme and Rex Grossman can't get the job done. :rolleyes:

Demonpenz
08-27-2007, 09:21 AM
huard is a great story. You have to love a guy who has paid his dues then came in and lit it up. What a story. We were sitting around the water cooler talking about that when he was named the starter. A real working class hero who always was behind the pretty boys. He had all the traits of the great chiefs Then when he got his chance he went out there and fumbled like dave krieg, threw swing passes like bono, and had the mobility of Grbac.

kcchiefsus
08-27-2007, 09:22 AM
I don't see us being any better than 2-5 by the bye week.

Demonpenz
08-27-2007, 09:22 AM
Yeah, you need Peyton Manning-type QBs to win it all. Guys like Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Ben Roethlisberger, Jake Delhomme and Rex Grossman can't get the job done. :rolleyes:


kerry collins marc rypen

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 09:23 AM
Yeah, you need Peyton Manning-type QBs to win it all. Guys like Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Ben Roethlisberger, Jake Delhomme and Rex Grossman can't get the job done. :rolleyes:

Those guys can actually throw the ball downfield and not overthrow people by 15 yards...

tooge
08-27-2007, 09:23 AM
DA said it well on his show this morning. It is really a win win situation for the fans. If Huard plays well enough to keep the job, we will be in the hunt and it will be a fun year to be a fan. If he doesn't, then Croyle will be brought in and the fans will get to see the young guy develop without alot of expectations. Pretty much makes it sound OK. However, the losses still ruin my sunday and make me feel all bummed on monday too.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 09:24 AM
huard is a great story. You have to love a guy who has paid his dues then came in and lit it up. What a story. We were sitting around the water cooler talking about that when he was named the starter. A real working class hero who always was behind the pretty boys. He had all the traits of the great chiefs Then when he got his chance he went out there and fumbled like dave krieg, threw swing passes like bono, and had the mobility of Grbac.

Yep, great story. Career backup.

That's certainly more important to Chiefs fans than winning.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 09:25 AM
DA said it well on his show this morning. It is really a win win situation for the fans. If Huard plays well enough to keep the job, we will be in the hunt and it will be a fun year to be a fan. If he doesn't, then Croyle will be brought in and the fans will get to see the young guy develop without alot of expectations. Pretty much makes it sound OK. However, the losses still ruin my sunday and make me feel all bummed on monday too.

Yep, being "in the hunt" is all we can ask for. Those Lamar Hunt trophies are reserved for teams that aspire for something more than being "in the hunt".

kcchiefsus
08-27-2007, 09:26 AM
Yep, great story. Career backup.

That's certainly more important to Chiefs fans than winning.

Don't worry.

The old man will suck it up and we will see Croyle soon enough. This will all work out perfectly. Fans will hate Huard for sucking and losing and Croyle will come in and be the savior.

If we have to lose this season, I would rather lose with a 24 year old quarterback than a 34 year old quarterback.

Reerun_KC
08-27-2007, 09:26 AM
Then when he got his chance he went out there and fumbled like dave krieg, threw swing passes like bono, and had the mobility of Grbac.


Somewhere Hootie just finished making love to his hand....

Reerun_KC
08-27-2007, 09:26 AM
Don't worry.

The old man will suck it up and we will see Croyle soon enough. This will all work out perfectly. Fans will hate Huard for sucking and losing and Croyle will come in and be the savior.

If we have to lose this season, I would rather lose with a 24 year old quarterback than a 34 year old quarterback.


We can only hope...

Demonpenz
08-27-2007, 09:27 AM
Last year was a fun year. Air huard baby.

Reerun_KC
08-27-2007, 09:27 AM
Yep, being "in the hunt" is all we Desire. Those Lamar Hunt trophies are reserved for teams that aspire for something more than being "in the hunt".


FYP

shrek6849
08-27-2007, 09:28 AM
Yeah, you need Peyton Manning-type QBs to win it all. Guys like Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Ben Roethlisberger, Jake Delhomme and Rex Grossman can't get the job done. :rolleyes:

Generally speaking, a star QB makes it a lot easier to win the ultimate prize. Those names are just the exceptions. That's why Brady, Elway, Aikman, Bradshaw, Starr, Montana all have multiple rings. Hell, those guys ALONE have what, a combined 22 Super Bowl wins?

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 09:31 AM
Generally speaking, a star QB makes it a lot easier to win the ultimate prize. Those names are just the exceptions. That's why Brady, Elway, Aikman, Bradshaw, Starr, Montana all have multiple rings. Hell, those guys ALONE have what, a combined 22 Super Bowl wins?

Exactly.

TN_Chief
08-27-2007, 09:34 AM
Yeah, you need Peyton Manning-type QBs to win it all. Guys like Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Ben Roethlisberger, Jake Delhomme and Rex Grossman can't get the job done. :rolleyes:Every single one of those QBs was playing on a team with just a sick defense. That doesn't exist anymore in KC.

Chiefnj2
08-27-2007, 09:35 AM
You want to be mad?
1. Be mad at Croyle for sucking.
2. Be mad at Herm, Carl and the scouting department for not addressing the offensive tackle position aggressively in FA, the draft and supplemental draft.

I don't care for Herm. But to be honest, he gave Croyle every chance to WIN the starting job. It isn't all Herm's fault that Croyle didn't do it.

boogblaster
08-27-2007, 09:36 AM
Who will be under-center come december...Croyle or Terrell ...

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 09:36 AM
You want to be mad?
1. Be mad at Croyle for sucking.
2. Be mad at Herm, Carl and the scouting department for not addressing the offensive tackle position aggressively in FA, the draft and supplemental draft.

I don't care for Herm. But to be honest, he gave Croyle every chance to WIN the starting job. It isn't all Herm's fault that Croyle didn't do it.

I am mad at Croyle for sucking.

I'm no longer mad at Herm or Carl. They are what they are. I will bide my time until they're gone.

DaKCMan AP
08-27-2007, 09:36 AM
Generally speaking, a star QB makes it a lot easier to win the ultimate prize. Those names are just the exceptions. That's why Brady, Elway, Aikman, Bradshaw, Starr, Montana all have multiple rings. Hell, those guys ALONE have what, a combined 22 Super Bowl wins?

The likelihood of any team finding an Elway, Montana, Brady, Manning are extremely low. It's not like there are a bunch of them laying around for the picking. Even tanking and taking a QB in the top-5 doesn't guarantee success. Heck, you can get a guy like Marino and never win it all.

All I'm saying is you don't "need" one of those guys to get there.

cdcox
08-27-2007, 09:42 AM
htis - I'm really disappointed in you. Don't you know that its bad form to change your opinion about anything on this board? Even "coming to terms" with an unfavorable coaching decision is not the way we do things here. And you know it. I expect you to dig your heels in and become increasingly bitter about this situation like the rest of us.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 09:48 AM
htis - I'm really disappointed in you. Don't you know that its bad form to change your opinion about anything on this board? Even "coming to terms" with an unfavorable coaching decision is not the way we do things here. And you know it. I expect you to dig your heels in and become increasingly bitter about this situation like the rest of us.

I'm disappointed in me too.

If I thought I could actually do it, I would have logged off on Saturday and never came back. I could mow my yard on Sundays and not have to worry about working my schedule around the Chiefs...

patteeu
08-27-2007, 09:49 AM
Just wondering... will people be mad about Huard starting if he performs well and gets us to the playoffs?

Good question. I guess there's always got to be something to complain about around here. The season hasn't even started and half the board has not only thrown in the towel, but they're whining about the Chiefs not actively trying to make it the worst season since the depths of Chiefs football in the 70's/80's. With friends like these, who needs Raiders fans.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 09:50 AM
Good question. I guess there's always got to be something to complain about around here. The season hasn't even started and half the board has not only thrown in the towel, but they're whining about the Chiefs not actively trying to make it the worst season since the depths of Chiefs football in the 70's/80's. With friends like these, who needs Raiders fans.

Do you HONESTLY believe Damon Huard can lead us to an AFC Championship game? How about a win?

How about just winning a playoff game?

cdcox
08-27-2007, 09:53 AM
I'm disappointed in me too.

If I thought I could actually do it, I would have logged off on Saturday and never came back. I could mow my yard on Sundays and not have to worry about working my schedule around the Chiefs...

Much better. Good work.

:D

HonestChieffan
08-27-2007, 09:54 AM
Oh now come on...Huard clearly is a magnificent leader. Its just not been discovered beecause no on ever gave him the opportunity....right. And Brodie is the second coming of (insert great qb name)

when pigs fly.

Demonpenz
08-27-2007, 09:55 AM
Huard never even got his chance in the playoffs last year. I am ready to see what he can do finally. He will have a couple years to show what he's got. If it is anything last year. He will make strong decisions

DaKCMan AP
08-27-2007, 09:55 AM
Do you HONESTLY believe Damon Huard can lead us to an AFC Championship game? How about a win?

How about just winning a playoff game?

I believe if you make it to the playoffs, anything can happen. If Ty Law's interception early in the Indy game would have been returned for 6, or if Tynes hadn't shanked a 20-something yard FG, who knows if the game could have taken a different turn. Momentum can carry a lot of weight.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 09:56 AM
I believe if you make it to the playoffs, anything can happen. If Ty Law's interception early in the Indy game would have been returned for 6, or if Tynes hadn't shanked a 20-something yard FG, who knows if the game could have taken a different turn. Momentum can carry a lot of weight.

Anything can happen if you have a GOOD TEAM, with playoff-caliber coaches.

Demonpenz
08-27-2007, 09:57 AM
I believe if you make it to the playoffs, anything can happen. If Ty Law's interception early in the Indy game would have been returned for 6, or if Tynes hadn't shanked a 20-something yard FG, who knows if the game could have taken a different turn. Momentum can carry a lot of weight.


Hell yes. Look at the colts last year, with their D no one thought they could carry it all. Huard is our man now, it does no good as a fan to tear him down. Time to pick him up so we can kick some afc ass!

HonestChieffan
08-27-2007, 09:57 AM
Lets start with a pre season win...

Guru
08-27-2007, 09:57 AM
Just wondering... will people be mad about Huard starting if he performs well and gets us to the playoffs?
Super Bowl or bust. Anything less and I will be disappointed. Just like every other year.

I am tired of being satisfied with a playoff appearance. If that is all we need to be happy, this orginization will never progress.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 09:58 AM
Hell yes. Look at the colts last year, with their D no one thought they could carry it all. Huard is our man now, it does no good as a fan to tear him down. Time to pick him up so we can kick some afc ass!

I'm not tearing anybody down. Huard is what he is.

DaKCMan AP
08-27-2007, 09:58 AM
Anything can happen if you have a GOOD TEAM, with playoff-caliber coaches.

Herm Edwards has won a playoff game, yes?

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 09:59 AM
Lets start with a pre season win...

Let's start with getting a couple of first downs.

For all the bitching about Croyle's INT's and how Huard hasn't got a chance to play, nobody is talking about it.

Huard would have gotten FAR more snaps if he could throw a 3-yard dumpoff anywhere NEAR the RB...

Short Leash Hootie
08-27-2007, 09:59 AM
Do you HONESTLY believe Damon Huard can lead us to an AFC Championship game? How about a win?

How about just winning a playoff game?
Did you think Trent Green could have won a playoff game?

I'm not trying to diss Trent, I'm just wondering if Trent was the type of QB, say in 2003, that could've been a difference maker and won us a playoff game.

Demonpenz
08-27-2007, 09:59 AM
Huard has started behind some hall of famers, i love that firey attitude, and his ability to come through when the chips are down.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 10:00 AM
Herm Edwards has won a playoff game, yes?

Who'd he beat?

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 10:01 AM
Did you think Trent Green could have won a playoff game?

I'm not trying to diss Trent, I'm just wondering if Trent was the type of QB, say in 2003, that could've been a difference maker and won us a playoff game.

At this point, I question whether ANY QB wearing a Chiefs jersey could do it.

DaKCMan AP
08-27-2007, 10:01 AM
Who'd he beat?

The last Chiefs coach to win a playoff game.

Demonpenz
08-27-2007, 10:02 AM
I like the fact that kansas city is finally not rushing a young player. Give him some time let huard show him how a pro goes about his business. Rockstar time

Donger
08-27-2007, 10:04 AM
I like the fact that kansas city is finally not rushing a young player. Give him some time let huard show him how a pro goes about his business. Rockstar time

I'm curious about this line of thinking.

How much can Croyle really learn on the sidelines? He's played football all his life, right?

Deberg_1990
08-27-2007, 10:05 AM
Who'd he beat?

The two teams that i remember him beating are the Chargers in 04 and the Colts in 02.

Deberg_1990
08-27-2007, 10:06 AM
I like the fact that kansas city is finally not rushing a young player. Give him some time let huard show him how a pro goes about his business. Rockstar time


When did the Chiefs rush a young player before?

Inspector
08-27-2007, 10:06 AM
Maybe if Croyle would just grow a beard.........

HonestChieffan
08-27-2007, 10:07 AM
Croyle will be a name on a realeste sales sign in about 2 years....he will never make it in the NFL.

Demonpenz
08-27-2007, 10:09 AM
I'm curious about this line of thinking.

How much can Croyle really learn on the sidelines? He's played football all his life, right?


He can learn what it takes to earn a job in the nfl. Nothing is handed to you. So now he can bounce back from falling on his ass and see what it takes to get back on that horse. He is going to be in the weightroom, in films, in practice scratching to get back on the field. If he is worth a shit the coach's will have to put him back in because HE will give the team a chance to win. He isn't a 1st round draft pick who is 6'6 moble has all the tools. He is who he is a 3rd rounder with bad knees who better get bigger faster and stronger.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 10:09 AM
The two teams that i remember him beating are the Chargers in 04 and the Colts in 02.

Marty and Dungy. :hmmm:

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 10:10 AM
I like the fact that kansas city is finally not rushing a young player. Give him some time let huard show him how a pro goes about his business. Rockstar time

Yeah, that's the ticket. I'm sure Brodie will learn alot about being a backup from a guy that's been a backup for over 10 years.

Donger
08-27-2007, 10:11 AM
He can learn what it takes to earn a job in the nfl. Nothing is handed to you. So now he can bounce back from falling on his ass and see what it takes to get back on that horse. He is going to be in the weightroom, in films, in practice scratching to get back on the field. If he is worth a shit the coach's will have to put him back in because HE will give the team a chance to win. He isn't a 1st round draft pick who is 6'6 moble has all the tools. He is who he is a 3rd rounder with bad knees who better get bigger faster and stronger.

Besides getting bigger and stronger, did he not spend all last year 'learning?' Besides working out, what benefit does spending another year on the sidelines afford?

DaKCMan AP
08-27-2007, 10:12 AM
Marty and Dungy. :hmmm:

Obviously Dungy is not a playoff caliber coa... wait, who won the SB last year?

Demonpenz
08-27-2007, 10:12 AM
Sometimes all it takes for a young player is to see the difference between knowledge and wisdom.

TEX
08-27-2007, 10:13 AM
Croyle will be a name on a realeste sales sign in about 2 years....he will never make it in the NFL.

Well I for one agree with you, (at least not as a starter) and have felt that way from day 1. Even said it here a few times and got FLAMED for it. :rolleyes:

But I'm also pulling for the kid to prove me wrong and everyone else right who has disagreed with me on the subject. Because, if I'm right - we all lose.

DaKCMan AP
08-27-2007, 10:13 AM
Besides getting bigger and stronger, did he not spend all last year 'learning?' Besides working out, what benefit does spending another year on the sidelines afford?

I don't disagree. But, the decision's been made for now and I'm not going to throw a tantrum like many on this board have.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 10:14 AM
Obviously Dungy is not a playoff caliber coa... wait, who won the SB last year?

Did Dungy build that team?

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 10:15 AM
Sometimes all it takes for a young player is to see the difference between knowledge and wisdom.

The wisdom of knowing that you can win a job even if you're not talented, just as long as you don't make mistakes.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 10:15 AM
I don't disagree. But, the decision's been made for now and I'm not going to throw a tantrum like many on this board have.

Throwing a tantrum?

Or finally waking up to the fact that the team you root for is a perennial loser and is always going to be a perennial loser?

Demonpenz
08-27-2007, 10:17 AM
Besides getting bigger and stronger, did he not spend all last year 'learning?' Besides working out, what benefit does spending another year on the sidelines afford?

He will see what it takes get back up after you have failed. It's not all about croyle. It is best for the franchise to have huard in there.

DaKCMan AP
08-27-2007, 10:17 AM
Did Dungy build that team?

He built the team that won SB 37.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 10:18 AM
He will see what it takes get back up after you have failed. It's not all about croyle. It is best for the franchise to have huard in there.

Yep. Can't have any empty seats.

Deberg_1990
08-27-2007, 10:18 AM
Marty and Dungy. :hmmm:

We cant dog on Dungy anymore. Hes won a title.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 10:19 AM
He built the team that won SB 37.

And yet John Gruden had to get them over the hump.

Reerun_KC
08-27-2007, 10:19 AM
He will see what it takes get back up after you have failed. It's not all about croyle. It is best for the franchise to have huard in there.


Your sarcasism is amusing today...

and people are biting and hanging on your every word...

Awesome!

patteeu
08-27-2007, 10:19 AM
Do you HONESTLY believe Damon Huard can lead us to an AFC Championship game? How about a win?

How about just winning a playoff game?

I don't think Huard alone can do anything for us, but if the team is capable of getting there, I don't think Huard will be holding them back. I'm under no illusion that Huard is a top notch NFL quarterback, but the unfortunate problem that the Chiefs face is that they don't have a top notch NFL quarterback on the roster. Not at this point at the very least.

I won't be surprised if Croyle takes over at some point this season, either because Huard gets injured or because we get to a point in the season where making the playoffs is out of reach. And after seeing the fans lose patience and boo the Croyle-led offense even before the real season started (last Thursday night), I think efforts to develop him for next year will be more successful under one of those scenarios than if the team gifts him the opening day starter job (because he sure hasn't earned it).

I don't buy into the "we've got to really suck before we can get better" mentality.

Besides, did anyone honestly believe that Huard would do as well as he did last year at the end of the 2006 preseason? I know I didn't.

DaKCMan AP
08-27-2007, 10:19 AM
Throwing a tantrum?

Or finally waking up to the fact that the team you root for is a perennial loser and is always going to be a perennial loser?

Before 2000, the Bucs, Patriots and Colts would have fit that description.

Demonpenz
08-27-2007, 10:19 AM
I guess I am just old school. Football is about survival and perserverence. This is going to be cheesy but this is the SHOW ME STATE for alot of people that doesn't mean much. I am a big believer in doing and not talking.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 10:19 AM
We cant dog on Dungy anymore. Hes won a title.

Yes, he has.

But he hadn't at the time that Herm beat him.

DaKCMan AP
08-27-2007, 10:20 AM
And yet John Gruden had to get them over the hump.

And Dungy got the Colts over the hump. He built a SB team and coached another. Yet he doesn't qualify as a SB-caliber coach?

Frazod
08-27-2007, 10:20 AM
Throwing a tantrum?

Or finally waking up to the fact that the team you root for is a perennial loser and is always going to be a perennial loser?

htislogical?

:evil:

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 10:21 AM
Before 2000, the Bucs, Patriots and Colts would have fit that description.

John Gruden, Bill Belichek, Peyton Manning...

Sorry, but I don't see any of that on this team...

Deberg_1990
08-27-2007, 10:21 AM
Yep. Can't have any empty seats.

Better to be 8-7 or 7-7 those last few weeks in December than 5-10 or 6-9

Keeps those seats filled with potential playoff interest.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 10:21 AM
htislogical?

:evil:

htisdefeated

Seriously.

HonestChieffan
08-27-2007, 10:22 AM
Herm knows.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 10:22 AM
I don't think Huard alone can do anything for us, but if the team is capable of getting there, I don't think Huard will be holding them back. I'm under no illusion that Huard is a top notch NFL quarterback, but the unfortunate problem that the Chiefs face is that they don't have a top notch NFL quarterback on the roster. Not at this point at the very least.

I won't be surprised if Croyle takes over at some point this season, either because Huard gets injured or because we get to a point in the season where making the playoffs is out of reach. And after seeing the fans lose patience and boo the Croyle-led offense even before the real season started (last Thursday night), I think efforts to develop him for next year will be more successful under one of those scenarios than if the team gifts him the opening day starter job (because he sure hasn't earned it).

I don't buy into the "we've got to really suck before we can get better" mentality.

Besides, did anyone honestly believe that Huard would do as well as he did last year at the end of the 2006 preseason? I know I didn't.

I'm surprised that so many people seem to indicate that they think last year was the NORM for Damon Huard, rather than the exception.

I'm not sure even Hootie thinks he can reproduce what he did last year.

DaKCMan AP
08-27-2007, 10:23 AM
John Gruden, Bill Belichek, Peyton Manning...

Sorry, but I don't see any of that on this team...

So if Bill Belichek was our coach we'd be SB bound? Brilliant!

Deberg_1990
08-27-2007, 10:25 AM
I'm surprised that so many people seem to indicate that they think last year was the NORM for Damon Huard, rather than the exception.

I'm not sure even Hootie thinks he can reproduce what he did last year.

Well if Huard blows chunks this year, (which alot of people around here seem to think he will) then that will only mean a high draft pick next year for us.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 10:26 AM
So if Bill Belichek was our coach we'd be SB bound? Brilliant!

Of course, that's not what I'm saying.

All of those guys are CREATIVE. They're not afraid to change things up, to take risks, to think "outside the box".

Herm displays none of those qualities.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 10:26 AM
Well if Huard blows chunks this year, (which alot of people around here seem to think he will) then that will only mean a high draft pick next year for us.

And we still don't know whether or not we need a QB.

Personally, I'd rather know beforehand whether or not it would be a good idea to spend that high draft pick on a QB, or if we would be better suited taking a LT, for example.

Deberg_1990
08-27-2007, 10:32 AM
And we still don't know whether or not we need a QB.

Personally, I'd rather know beforehand whether or not it would be a good idea to spend that high draft pick on a QB, or if we would be better suited taking a LT, for example.

I honestly think thats why they went with Huard. Basically, if he blows chunks, and we are out of the race by November, then Croyle comes in the rest of the year and we see what hes made of without alot of pressure on his shoulders.


Of course, worst case scenario is what i mentioned before: 7-7 or 8-7 heading into those last few weeks of December and Huard does "just enough" to keep the job.

HemiEd
08-27-2007, 10:35 AM
Damon Huard is a stop gap QB with no upside.

Herman Edwards is a stop gap HC with no upside.

The less time Croyle plays now, the more he has left in the tank when Edwards and Peterson are gone.

agreed 100%

Mr. Laz
08-27-2007, 10:37 AM
didn't i make this thread already? :hmmm:

HonestChieffan
08-27-2007, 10:38 AM
In a previous life. Yes. But it was taken by the visitors.

FAX
08-27-2007, 10:42 AM
After giving this decision additional consideration, I'm more confused than ever.

I would have thought that one of Herm's motivations to start Brodie would be to create the "young, developing quarterback" straw man to take the blame for any offensive failures.

Anyone know where we can get some 14 foot tall receivers?

FAX

MGRS13
08-27-2007, 10:42 AM
Most people on here are WAY over rating Huard, he had some ok moments last year but, I predict he will be pulled in the third quarter of the texans game.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 10:43 AM
didn't i make this thread already? :hmmm:

Sorry. Not looking to step on any toes here, especially yours.

Short Leash Hootie
08-27-2007, 10:43 AM
Most people on here are WAY over rating Huard, he had some ok moments last year but, I predict he will be pulled in the third quarter of the texans game.
I see the light!

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 10:43 AM
I honestly think thats why they went with Huard. Basically, if he blows chunks, and we are out of the race by November, then Croyle comes in the rest of the year and we see what hes made of without alot of pressure on his shoulders.


Of course, worst case scenario is what i mentioned before: 7-7 or 8-7 heading into those last few weeks of December and Huard does "just enough" to keep the job.

I'm 100% convinced that's the exact scenario we'll see.

Woodrow Call
08-27-2007, 10:43 AM
Most people on here are WAY over rating Huard, he had some ok moments last year but, I predict he will be pulled in the third quarter of the texans game.

Thats kinda what I invision as well. I think Huards run will be a short one.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 10:44 AM
I don't.

He's proven that all he needs to do is not turn the ball over.

Even if we're 0-4, as long as he's got 1 or 2 INT's, he's gonna keep the job.

Deberg_1990
08-27-2007, 10:45 AM
I'm 100% convinced that's the exact scenario we'll see.

hahah.....We've all seen this song and dance before....LOL

Skip Towne
08-27-2007, 10:48 AM
didn't i make this thread already? :hmmm:
You and about a dozen others.

HemiEd
08-27-2007, 10:48 AM
Of course, that's not what I'm saying.

All of those guys are CREATIVE. They're not afraid to change things up, to take risks, to think "outside the box".

Herm displays none of those qualities.

But at least he doesn't try and outscore teams on the road. And lets not forget, he doesn't want one of the Circus Offenses that scores too quickly.

MGRS13
08-27-2007, 10:48 AM
I don't.

He's proven that all he needs to do is not turn the ball over.

Even if we're 0-4, as long as he's got 1 or 2 INT's, he's gonna keep the job.With the way this offense is going after half time or some where in the third quarter of EVERY game Croyle will come in. When your down by 4 scores there will be no point not to.

Mr. Laz
08-27-2007, 10:49 AM
Sorry. Not looking to step on any toes here, especially yours.
just messing with ya :)


but i agree ...... starting croyle right now might be really bad for him.


i'm far more worried about Croyle's progress than our wins this year.

HemiEd
08-27-2007, 10:50 AM
didn't i make this thread already? :hmmm:

Shut up Jordan Black of thread making, this went way over your head. :D

Mr. Laz
08-27-2007, 10:51 AM
Shut up Jordan Black of thread making, this went way over your head. :D
hehe


that one still stinging you, eh?! :p

HemiEd
08-27-2007, 10:53 AM
hehe


that one still stinging you, eh?! :p


No not at all, it is all good fun. LMAO

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 10:54 AM
just messing with ya :)

but i agree ...... starting croyle right now might be really bad for him.

i'm far more worried about Croyle's progress than our wins this year.

I'm still not really "worried" about his progress.

But his true potential (if he has any, it's still possible he just sucks) will never be realized with this head coach and offensive staff, so might as well save him for the next regime.

At the very least, they put off finding out what Croyle has to the point that the new regime can come right in and draft their own QB.

BigRedChief
08-27-2007, 11:01 AM
I am mad at Croyle for sucking.

I'm no longer mad at Herm or Carl. They are what they are. I will bide my time until they're gone.
I was here before King Carl and I'll be here after he is gone. But I may be rooting from my Lazy-boy at home instead of giving King Carl another $3,000 next year. I'm seriously thinking this might be my last year as a season ticket holder until King Carl is gone. He's had 19 years to get it right.

I cheer for a team that wants to win a championship not be "in the hunt". And as long as King Carl is calling the player decisions and deciding the direction of the team on the football field we will never win a Super Bowl.

Sully
08-27-2007, 11:02 AM
I haven't read much beyond the OP, but I have come to something along the same lines.

This very well may bring us closer to Bill Cowher and a complete overhaul.

patteeu
08-27-2007, 11:02 AM
And we still don't know whether or not we need a QB.

Personally, I'd rather know beforehand whether or not it would be a good idea to spend that high draft pick on a QB, or if we would be better suited taking a LT, for example.

How many games do you need to make that determination? Did Denver have enough games last season with Cutler or are they still in the dark?

Mr. Laz
08-27-2007, 11:02 AM
I'm still not really "worried" about his progress.

But his true potential (if he has any, it's still possible he just sucks) will never be realized with this head coach and offensive staff, so might as well save him for the next regime.

At the very least, they put off finding out what Croyle has to the point that the new regime can come right in and draft their own QB.
imo if a QB starts his career off with a suspect coaching staff his chances of success are marginal at best.

Herm didn't kill Pennington completely though ... i'm hoping Croyle still has a bit of a chance.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 11:05 AM
How many games do you need to make that determination? Did Denver have enough games last season with Cutler or are they still in the dark?

No, Denver didn't have enough games. I'm sure they would have loved to get 4 or 5 more under Cutler's belt.

Furthermore, it's not just about finding out what we have in Brodie. It's also about KNOWING what we have in Damon. I have zero interest in watching Damon Huard run the team.

But see, Denver's team, and it's fans, aren't afraid of the future either. They know what it feels like to win it all and they want to taste that again.

DaKCMan AP
08-27-2007, 11:06 AM
And as long as King Carl is calling the player decisions and deciding the direction of the team on the football field we will never win a Super Bowl.

Actually, many of Carl's player personnel decisions turn out positive. It's when he does what his coach wants, despite his personal opposition, that we have seen some real blunders.

BigRedChief
08-27-2007, 11:11 AM
Actually, many of Carl's player personnel decisions turn out positive. It's when he does what his coach wants, despite his personal opposition, that we have seen some real blunders.Come on...............Jeeezzzz
How are we suppose to know which picks were King Carl's and who's was the coach's? Because it was leaked to the media? Maybe someone leaked it to make their boss look good or someone else look bad? We will never know and besides it doesn't matter........

The buck stops at King Carl. He could overrule his coaches if he wanted to? If he thought it was a blunder, correct? Like supposely the LJ pick.. After 19 years and 4 coaches the majority of the blame has to fall on him.

HemiEd
08-27-2007, 11:12 AM
How many games do you need to make that determination? Did Denver have enough games last season with Cutler or are they still in the dark?

I see this playing out like that and/or the Redskins use of Jason Campbell, only just a year behind.

I think if we truly want to try and develop any QB of our own, we have to be willing to let him play and suffer through the learning curve. Obviously Carl is not going to do that.

Bowser
08-27-2007, 11:21 AM
Did you think Trent Green could have won a playoff game?

I'm not trying to diss Trent, I'm just wondering if Trent was the type of QB, say in 2003, that could've been a difference maker and won us a playoff game.

Yes. If Morton and Boerigter hadn't dropped sure TD catches, the talk would have been about how Trent outplayed Peyton Manning.

Wile_E_Coyote
08-27-2007, 11:24 AM
It is difficult for a starting QB to lose his job in KC. Gannon (should have) over Grbac. Huard (should have) over Green for the playoff game. With Green gone Huard became the starting QB. To be fair Croyle didn't win the job though

RedThat
08-27-2007, 11:25 AM
Actually, many of Carl's player personnel decisions turn out positive. It's when he does what his coach wants, despite his personal opposition, that we have seen some real blunders.

There lies some truth to what you are saying. Ala drafting Larry Johnson for example. Carl didn't listen to Vermeil which now is a GREAT thing.

I think he played a role in deciding to go with Huard this year? Hopefully it is the right move.

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 11:30 AM
And we still don't know whether or not we need a QB.

Personally, I'd rather know beforehand whether or not it would be a good idea to spend that high draft pick on a QB, or if we would be better suited taking a LT, for example.


And that's the whole point of people who are upset with the decision.

No one is looking to "tank" the season for a high draft pick.

What is an HONEST best case scenario for starting Huard?

9 wins, one-and-done in the playoffs. That's BEST CASE.

Realistically, unless lightning is caught in a bottle once again, the outcome will be much lower than best case. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 7-9 wins and no playoff appearance.

Can we agree on that?

Even the BEST CASE SCENARIO is not, and should not be the goal of the franchise.

The goal of the franchise is to win a Championship. That isn't going to happen, even if Jesus himself were to play QB for the Chiefs. So why WAIT to find out what you have? Use this year, in which you CANNOT meet your goal, to answer some questions and better prepare yourself for the FUTURE.

The quicker they learn what they have in EVERY player, not just Croyle, the better the decision making process will be down the road to help BUILD that Championship team.

IMO, to those who are upset at the decision to start Damon, there is NO DIFFERENCE between and 9-7 season and a 4-12 season, because neither MET THE GOAL of the franchise.

So we see no reason NOT to start Croyle. The season is a waste either way. Use the wasted season to GROW your QBOTF, or find out you need a NEW QBOTF.

CoMoChief
08-27-2007, 11:32 AM
Who'd he beat?
SD all because Nate Kaeding couldn't make a FG.

The ghost of Lin Elliot came back to haunt Marty once again that night.

Chiefnj2
08-27-2007, 11:36 AM
SD all because Nate Kaeding couldn't make a FG.


It was because Marty got ultra conservative, again, and wasn't even trying to advance the ball to put Kaeding in position to make a shorter kick.

Herm made the same mistakes, and worse, in the next game.

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 11:38 AM
I see this playing out like that and/or the Redskins use of Jason Campbell, only just a year behind.

I think if we truly want to try and develop any QB of our own, we have to be willing to let him play and suffer through the learning curve. Obviously Carl is not going to do that.

Funny you mentioned Campbell. A friend and I were talking about his development this morning.

And your second comment is spot on.

CoMoChief
08-27-2007, 11:40 AM
If the Oline is as bad as it has been, it wouldn't matter if Peyton Manning or a 1996 Brett Favre was at the helm. If they don't get good protection it's over.

You can't win unless you put points on the board. Herm Edwards doesn't seem to figure that out. This FG bullshit won't win us any football games this season. Depending on how well McIntosh performs this season, we may need to take a LT with the first pick next season. The draft is gonna be pretty deep at that position.

1. Sign Jared Allen long-term. There's no way we can let him go. He's part of the few core guys on defense that are gonna get you turnovers.
2. Get OT in first round of draft.
3. Draft CB with 2nd pick. I would draft a WR as well considering Parker sucks and Kennison is aging and Herm can usually find some late round gems in the secondary anyways.

I really wish Croyle would start. He has to come in at some point. You can tell that Carl had his fingerprints all over this move. He's never developed a QB under his watch and he isn't about to start now. Huard does give us the best shot to win given what he did for us last year against the NFLE-like NFCW teams. But he did play like shit against MIA and PIT which once again it comes down to the Oline play.

Just gonna have to wait and see. Having LJ in the lineup certainly doesn't hurt.

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 11:43 AM
imo if a QB starts his career off with a suspect coaching staff his chances of success are marginal at best.

Herm didn't kill Pennington completely though ... i'm hoping Croyle still has a bit of a chance.

Steve Young turned out pretty well after his first two years with Leeman Bennett.

I know, there are exceptions. But I'm not taking all day to research the others.

:)

kcchiefsus
08-27-2007, 11:51 AM
He will see what it takes get back up after you have failed. It's not all about croyle. It is best for the franchise to have huard in there.

It's only best for the first 5 or 6 games though.

Logical
08-27-2007, 11:59 AM
Damon Huard is a stop gap QB with no upside.

Herman Edwards is a stop gap HC with no upside.

The less time Croyle plays now, the more he has left in the tank when Edwards and Peterson are gone.


Sing it with me

And always look on the bright side of life...
Always look on the right side of life...
(Come on guys, cheer up!)
Always look on the bright side of life...
Always look on the bright side of life...
(Worse things happen at sea, you know.)
Always look on the bright side of life...
(I mean - what have you got to lose?)
(You know, you come from nothing - you're going back to nothing.
What have you lost? Nothing!)
Always look on the right side of life...

kcchiefsus
08-27-2007, 12:00 PM
You want to be mad?
1. Be mad at Croyle for sucking.
2. Be mad at Herm, Carl and the scouting department for not addressing the offensive tackle position aggressively in FA, the draft and supplemental draft.

I don't care for Herm. But to be honest, he gave Croyle every chance to WIN the starting job. It isn't all Herm's fault that Croyle didn't do it.

I'm not made at Croyle for sucking. He was not put in a position to win. He was playing with possibly the worst offensive line in the league and WR's who can't catch the ball.

DaKCMan AP
08-27-2007, 12:05 PM
He was playing with possibly the worst offensive line in the league

This is a myth.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 12:05 PM
SD all because Nate Kaeding couldn't make a FG.

The ghost of Lin Elliot came back to haunt Marty once again that night.

1st and 10. 3 straight runs, to the hash mark no less, and a Kaeding FG, in the rain.

It's ALL the kicker's fault. :hmmm:

Mr. Laz
08-27-2007, 12:08 PM
Steve Young turned out pretty well after his first two years with Leeman Bennett.

I know, there are exceptions. But I'm not taking all day to research the others.

:)
yea ....... and how many years did young have to recover behind montana and with one of the best offensive
coaches ever? :moon:

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 12:15 PM
yea ....... and how many years did young have to recover behind montana and with one of the best offensive
coaches ever? :moon:

Who cares?

The point is, Bennett didn't ruin Young. You said "starts off his career."



:p

redbrian
08-27-2007, 12:30 PM
Iíve got no problem with Haurd starting the season, I would like to see Croyle become the starting QB, but I donít want to see him get his head caved in because of the offensive line the Chiefs have.

Let Haurd be the sacrificial lamb, until if ever the line gets it shit in one sock, at that point you can put Croyle in there and he does not have to worry about getting stomped on by the defense walking through a weak line.

Haurd is expendable.

HemiEd
08-27-2007, 12:32 PM
I still think Croyle starts the home opener against the Vikings, but for a different reason than I had stated.
I think we come home, 0-2 and Croyle is inserted to inject new hope for the unhappy fans.

Chiefnj2
08-27-2007, 12:32 PM
10 months ago everybody was mad at Herm for: (a) going back to Green as the starter instead of Huard, because Huard was the best option for winning , (b) keeping Green as the starter after it was clear he wasn't his old self and Huard had done so well as a starter, and (c) not starting Huard in the 2nd half of the Colts playoff game because Huard may have been a spark to the offense.

10 months ago Huard was the best option. Now he isn't??

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 12:35 PM
10 months ago everybody was mad at Herm for: (a) going back to Green as the starter instead of Huard, because Huard was the best option for winning , (b) keeping Green as the starter after it was clear he wasn't his old self and Huard had done so well as a starter, and (c) not starting Huard in the 2nd half of the Colts playoff game because Huard may have been a spark to the offense.

10 months ago Huard was the best option. Now he isn't??

I wasn't one of those people.

In hindsight, I was forced to admit that we probably should have played Huard in the playoff game.

But I've never thought Huard was the best option. He's a backup.

Direckshun
08-27-2007, 12:35 PM
I'm upset that Huard got the nod as well, but I think this team is a lot better than people recognize.

keg in kc
08-27-2007, 12:36 PM
I'm still trying to figure out what it is about Huard that shouts "HE'S going to win us games!!!!one" to the coaching staff and a fairly sizable portion of the fanbase.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 12:37 PM
I'm upset that Huard got the nod as well, but I think this team is a lot better than people recognize.

Better than what?

I think if you go back, you'll find that every time somebody says this is a 4-win team, I tell them they're an idiot.

But at the end of the day, this team may be better than people recognize, but that's still not good enough to get us where we NEED to go.

HonestChieffan
08-27-2007, 12:37 PM
I'm upset that Huard got the nod as well, but I think this team is a lot better than people recognize.


They are doing a great job keeping it a secret

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 12:37 PM
I'm still trying to figure out what it is about Huard that shouts "HE'S going to win us games!!!!one" to the coaching staff and a fairly sizable portion of the fanbase.

100% Martyball.

When Herm says he gives us the best chance to "win", he actually means that Damon Huard gives us the best chance "not to lose".

KCJohnny
08-27-2007, 12:38 PM
Look at the big picture:

1. Several vets on this team are up in age and represent a legitimate "win now" posture: Gonzales, Waters, Dunn, Donnie Edwards, Surtain, Law, Kennison, etc.. To rebuild behind a young QB is probably a squandering of their substantial (and diminishing with age) talent;

2. Hermyball (keep the score down, try to win in the 4th quarter) is a natural fit for a polished ball-handler like Huard. In Hermyball, one turnover can blow the game.

3. Our chances for winning in the 4th QTR took a serious nose-dive when Tynes was (inexplicably) dumped and Medlock hired.

4. Huard's preseaon numbers are meaningless. He was given the R2P2 offense (run, run, pass, punt) to run and is obviously not as mobile with a sore calf. He has proven his mettle in the regular season.

5. The presence of Larry Johnson in the backfield demands respect from defenses. The better play-action QB has a real chance to make some big plays. Damon is no DeBerg, but Croyle's ball fakes looked weak to me.

6. The passing game has the potential to be potent if Solari can figure out how to get mismatches for Kris Wilson and get touches for Dwayne Bowe. Those weapons will not be as potent without a mature signal caller to make the right reads. Huard has proven he can do that (11 TDs, 1 INT last season).

Just some thoughts. If Mike Solari hasn't made significant progress in his game-planning, none of this matters. He demonstrated that he is not a playoff caliber coordinator in the final game of the 2006 season at Indy. We still have significant vulnerability at OLT. Herm is doing the only thing he can do by starting Damon Huard. Huard can lead the team to the post season again this year if Solari maximizes the proven weapons (TG, LJ, EK) and optimizes the emerging weapons (KW, DB).

KCJ

DaKCMan AP
08-27-2007, 12:40 PM
3. Our chances for winning in the 4th QTR took a serious nose-dive when Tynes was (inexplicably) dumped and Medlock hired.


ROFL

Miss 30yd FG's in the playoffs, XP-shanking Tynes?

ROFL

keg in kc
08-27-2007, 12:41 PM
100% Martyball.

When Herm says he gives us the best chance to "win", he actually means that Damon Huard gives us the best chance "not to lose".Which makes one wonder when fumbles stopped being a bad thing.

Logical
08-27-2007, 12:43 PM
Look at the big picture:

1. Several vets on this team are up in age and represent a legitimate "win now" posture: Gonzales, Waters, Dunn, Donnie Edwards, Surtain, Law, Kennison, etc.. To rebuild behind a young QB is probably a squandering of their substantial (and diminishing with age) talent;

2. Hermyball (keep the score down, try to win in the 4th quarter) is a natural fit for a polished ball-handler like Huard. In Hermyball, one turnover can blow the game.

3. Our chances for winning in the 4th QTR took a serious nose-dive when Tynes was (inexplicably) dumped and Medlock hired.

4. Huard's preseaon numbers are meaningless. He was given the R2P2 offense (run, run, pass, punt) to run and is obviously not as mobile with a sore calf. He has proven his mettle in the regular season.

5. The presence of Larry Johnson in the backfield demands respect from defenses. The better play-action QB has a real chance to make some big plays. Damon is no DeBerg, but Croyle's ball fakes looked weak to me.

6. The passing game has the potential to be potent if Solari can figure out how to get mismatches for Kris Wilson and get touches for Dwayne Bowe. Those weapons will not be as potent without a mature signal caller to make the right reads. Huard has proven he can do that (11 TDs, 1 INT last season).

Just some thoughts. If Mike Solari hasn't made significant progress in his game-planning, none of this matters. He demonstrated that he is not a playoff caliber coordinator in the final game of the 2006 season at Indy. We still have significant vulnerability at OLT. Herm is doing the only thing he can do by starting Damon Huard. Huard can lead the team to the post season again this year if Solari maximizes the proven weapons (TG, LJ, EK) and optimizes the emerging weapons (KW, DB).

KCJ

I know we have hit rock bottom, KCJohnny is back to rub our noses in his philosophy.

keg in kc
08-27-2007, 12:43 PM
I know we have hit rock bottom, KCJohnny is back to rub our noses in his philosophy.You had to know it was coming...

It's like clockwork.

DaKCMan AP
08-27-2007, 12:44 PM
I know we have hit rock bottom, KCJohnny is back to rub our noses in his philosophy.

LMAO

touche

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 12:45 PM
1. Several vets on this team are up in age and represent a legitimate "win now" posture

Please remove the word "legitimate",

2. Hermyball (keep the score down, try to win in the 4th quarter) is a natural fit for a polished ball-handler like Huard. In Hermyball, one turnover can blow the game.

The fact that Herm's offense is tailor-made for Huard makes it all the more sickening.

3. Our chances for winning in the 4th QTR took a serious nose-dive when Tynes was (inexplicably) dumped and Medlock hired.

Medlock will be better than Tynes. Hands down.

4. Huard's preseaon numbers are meaningless. He was given the R2P2 offense (run, run, pass, punt) to run and is obviously not as mobile with a sore calf. He has proven his mettle in the regular season.

The offense he was given this preseason was the SAME offense he ran last season. No risk, no reward. Just don't turn the ball over.

5. The presence of Larry Johnson in the backfield demands respect from defenses. The better play-action QB has a real chance to make some big plays. Damon is no DeBerg, but Croyle's ball fakes looked weak to me.

Yep, it demands respect. Which is why you'll see a replay of the playoff game week after week. Damon can't beat anybody so they'll stack the box. 16 weeks of 3-point games, I'm sure we'll win just enough games to earn the right to get embarrassed in the playoffs again.

6. The passing game has the potential to be potent if Solari can figure out how to get mismatches for Kris Wilson and get touches for Dwayne Bowe. Those weapons will not be as potent without a mature signal caller to make the right reads. Huard has proven he can do that (11 TDs, 1 INT last season).

11 TDs...in 10 games. What that proves is that Huard can manage an offense without turning the ball over. Nothing more.

Just some thoughts. If Mike Solari hasn't made significant progress in his game-planning, none of this matters. He demonstrated that he is not a playoff caliber coordinator in the final game of the 2006 season at Indy. We still have significant vulnerability at OLT. Herm is doing the only thing he can do by starting Damon Huard. Huard can lead the team to the post season again this year if Solari maximizes the proven weapons (TG, LJ, EK) and optimizes the emerging weapons (KW, DB).

KCJ

Mike Solari calls the offense EXACTLY the way Herman Edwards wants him to.

I can't wait for 8-8!

KCJohnny
08-27-2007, 12:45 PM
No philosophy required. Just football basics.
FWIW, I'm on the Jeff Terrell bandwagon!

Extra Point
08-27-2007, 12:48 PM
When Herm says he gives us the best chance to "win", he actually means that Damon Huard gives us the best chance "not to lose".

Herm-etically sealing the deal!

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 12:49 PM
No philosophy required. Just football basics.
FWIW, I'm on the Jeff Terrell bandwagon!

Of course, you're smarter than us. We forgot that, so thanks for reminding us.

And yes, we know you like Jeff Terrell. It wouldn't be the offseason if there wasn't a ridiculous "Start X undrafted free agent that will never play a meaningful down in the NFL" bandwagon...

KCJohnny
08-27-2007, 12:51 PM
I'm not getting my hopes up, but there's a reason Carl drafted Bowe #1 - hopefully not for his blocking ability. I'm serious, if Solari can find a way to get Kris Wilson more involved, this O might not be as bland as we think. If KW is a threat, EK and Bowe are on the FL/SE positions, and Tony Gonzales ALWAYS demands attention, who do you cover? Huard is not exactly being set up for failure with the NFL's best RB/TE combo. If Solari can figure out how to stretch the field (or optimize play action opportunities), this offense can be very competitive.

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 12:52 PM
Look at the big picture:

1. Several vets on this team are up in age and represent a legitimate "win now" posture: Gonzales, Waters, Dunn, Donnie Edwards, Surtain, Law, Kennison, etc.. To rebuild behind a young QB is probably a squandering of their substantial (and diminishing with age) talent;

I'm sorry Johnny, no disrespect meant, but I think you're wrong here.

Every one of the players you mentioned, with the possible exception of Dunn, have anywhere from 2-5 years left.

Starting Croyle THIS year SAVES them a year on their career. Sure there would be growing pains THIS year, but we're not going to the SB REGARDLESS. We're likely not even making the PLAYOFFS this year, regardless of QB.

Do you think Gonzalez thinks about 9-7 and a 1st round playoff loss? Hell no. He wants to win a championship. That IS NOT going to happen under Huard.

Playing Brodie NOW, while probably sacrificing this season, (anything short of SB is a sacrificed season to Vets who don't have a ring) put these guys in a BETTER position to have the POSSIBILITY of playing in a big game 3-5 years later, and go out on top.

Playing Huard this year, followed by the possible and likely growing pains of a young QB in 2008, will likely only lead to most, if not all of the guys you mentioned RETIRING EARLY.

I'm NOT saying Croyle will lead us to a SB, or even an AFC Championship game.

But I, and I think most realistic fans KNOW that Huard WILL NOT.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 12:52 PM
I'm not getting my hopes up, but there's a reason Carl drafted Bowe #1 - hopefully not for his blocking ability. I'm serious, if Solari can find a way to get Kris Wilson more involved, this O might not be as bland as we think. If KW is a threat, EK and Bowe are on the FL/SE positions, and Tony Gonzales ALWAYS demands attention, who do you cover? Huard is not exactly being set up for failure with the NFL's best RB/TE combo. If Solari can figure out how to stretch the field (or optimize play action opportunities, this offense can be very competitive.

Stretching the field is risky. That's not the type of game Herm wants to play.

They absolutely drafted Bowe for his blocking ability.

MGRS13
08-27-2007, 12:54 PM
I'm not getting my hopes up, but there's a reason Carl drafted Bowe #1 - hopefully not for his blocking ability. I'm serious, if Solari can find a way to get Kris Wilson more involved, this O might not be as bland as we think. If KW is a threat, EK and Bowe are on the FL/SE positions, and Tony Gonzales ALWAYS demands attention, who do you cover? Huard is not exactly being set up for failure with the NFL's best RB/TE combo. If Solari can figure out how to stretch the field (or optimize play action opportunities), this offense can be very competitive.If you can't cover them, which minus Gonzo for the most part you can, you just send the house. The line will never hold up long enough for Huard to do anything but tuck the ball or throw it away.

KCJohnny
08-27-2007, 12:59 PM
I'm sorry Johnny, no disrespect meant, but I think you're wrong here.

Every one of the players you mentioned, with the possible exception of Dunn, have anywhere from 2-5 years left.

Starting Croyle THIS year SAVES them a year on their career. Sure there would be growing pains THIS year, but we're not going to the SB REGARDLESS. We're likely not even making the PLAYOFFS this year, regardless of QB.

Do you think Gonzalez thinks about 9-7 and a 1st round playoff loss? Hell no. He wants to win a championship. That IS NOT going to happen under Huard.

Playing Brodie NOW, while probably sacrificing this season, (anything short of SB is a sacrificed season, IMO) put these guys in a BETTER position to have the POSSIBILITY of playing in a big game 3-5 years later, and go out on top.

Playing Huard this year, followed by the possible and likely growing pains of a young QB in 2008, will likely only lead to most, if not all of the guys you mentioned RETIRING EARLY.

I'm NOT saying Croyle will lead us to a SB, or even an AFC Championship game.

But I, and I think most realistic fans KNOW that Huard WON'T.

Hey man - makes sense to me. I understand where you are coming from. I don't share the opinion that Huard is not a SB-caliber QB. In 8 starts last year he guided the team to 5-3 and was the 2nd highest rated passer behind Peyton Manning. And that was with I-65 allowing trucks to drive into the pocket. I am betting we'll see a lot more Wilson, Bowe getting touches, Michael Bennett getting some bursts in relief of LJ, and Larry with another 1,000 yd season. Huard is reliable - I think the consensus is that he will not lose games for us - but I believe he played on a leash last year as Solari couldn't begin to grasp Al Saunders' graduate-level playbook. A full playbook, a few offensive weapons and one of the leagues best RBs will help immensely. So will having a defense that allows 18 ppg or less. Huard will not need to score 30+ ppg as the Vermiel Chiefs did - who finished at .500 with 1 playoff appearance in 5 years.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 01:02 PM
Hey man - makes sense to me. I understand where you are coming from. I don't share the opinion that Huard is not a SB-caliber QB. In 8 starts last year he guided the team to 5-3 and was the 2nd highest rated passer behind Peyton Manning. And that was with I-65 allowing trucks to drive into the pocket. I am betting we'll see a lot more Wilson, Bowe getting touches, Michael Bennett getting some bursts in relief of LJ, and Larry with another 1,000 yd season. Huard is reliable - I think the consensus is that he will not lose games for us - but I believe he played on a leash last year as Solari couldn't begin to grasp Al Saunders' graduate-level playbook. A full playbook, a few offensive weapons and one of the leagues best RBs will help immensely. So will having a defense that allows 18 ppg or less. Huard will not need to score 30+ ppg as the Vermiel Chiefs did - who finished at .500 with 1 playoff appearance in 5 years.

5-3, a .625 winning percentage, just like 10-6.

That's not Super Bowl caliber. That's 1-and-done in the playoffs caliber.

Solari designed the rushing package under Saunders. He knows that offense as good as anybody out there.

The "leash" as you put it was a combination of Huard and Herm. The difference in playcalling when Huard was in the game was plainly visible.

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 01:03 PM
5-3, a .625 winning percentage, just like 10-6.

That's not Super Bowl caliber. That's 1-and-done in the playoffs caliber.

Solari designed the rushing package under Saunders. He knows that offense as good as anybody out there.

The "leash" as you put it was a combination of Huard and Herm. The difference in playcalling when Huard was in the game was plainly visible.

I'm glad you tackled that one.

Just reading it made me tired all over.

FAX
08-27-2007, 01:16 PM
ROFL

I know that pre-season is meaningless and we're not supposed to get things twisted, but this is enough to put a kinko in the cocko.

Chiefs Pre-Season Offensive Rankings

PTS - 9.7 (32nd)
YDS - 212.7 (31st)
PASS YDS - 144.3 (30th)
RUSH YDS - 68.3 (29th)

http://www.nfl.com/teams/kansascitychiefs/statistics?team=KC

FAX

RedThat
08-27-2007, 01:17 PM
Better than what?

I think if you go back, you'll find that every time somebody says this is a 4-win team, I tell them they're an idiot.

But at the end of the day, this team may be better than people recognize, but that's still not good enough to get us where we NEED to go.

I think can understand what you're saying?

You basically mean, the Chiefs aren't good enough to go to the big dance?

Well, I can't say I disagree with you. But, I will say, they have the running game, the defense is shaping up to be a better defense. I think the Chiefs can play a solid defense, and possibly be a top 10 defense?

We went with Huard because we're concerned of not making mistakes.

Herm doesn't want to turn the ball over. Which is understandable. You turn the ball over you're going to lose games. I don't blame him for thinking that way, and in all honesty it makes a lot of sense.

*So, the Chiefs can run the ball, play defense, and possibly limit their turnovers to give them a chance to win games. Those are key elements to winning championships.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 01:21 PM
I think can understand what you're saying?

You basically mean, the Chiefs aren't good enough to go to the big dance?

Yep. That exactly what I mean.

We went with Huard because we're concerned of not making mistakes.

Yep. Safe. Secure. Gutless.

Herm doesn't want to turn the ball over. Which is understandable. You turn the ball over you're going to lose games. I don't blame him for thinking that way, and in all honesty it makes a lot of sense.

You also lose games if the opponent scores 14 points and you score 3. Huard doesn't make many mistakes, we established that. He also doesn't make any BIG PLAYS, which you have to make if you want to win in the postseason. Ball control and defense will only take you so far.

This team doesn't want to win in the postseason, that's the problem. The Hunts make plenty of money going .500 every year.

HonestChieffan
08-27-2007, 01:21 PM
We need to trust Herm.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 01:24 PM
We need to trust Herm.

I can't wait for 8 and 8!©

DaneMcCloud
08-27-2007, 01:28 PM
All Herm is doing by starting Huard over Croyle is protecting Croyle.

It's clearly obvious that Croyle isn't ready to lead the Chiefs into the regular season, growing pains or not. He's erratic and makes errant throwing decisions.

Starting Croyle at Houston and Chicago would be like throwing him to the wolves, especially considering the weak offensive line play of the Chiefs. The Houston defensive line will be among the best in the league and we're all familiar with Chicago's excellent defense. It could be career suicide to start Croyle at this point in time.

That said, I think it's very likely that unless the team is 4-3 or 5-2 at the break, Croyle will take the reigns after the bye week.

Messier
08-27-2007, 01:30 PM
I don't understand. Everyone is upset that Huard is starting week one, and yet everyone thinks Croyle will be starting sooner rather than later this season. What's the problem? You'll get your wish. Croyle will be starting this season and we will see he can do it.

Hailchief
08-27-2007, 01:32 PM
You guys really need to get a life

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 01:34 PM
I don't understand. Everyone is upset that Huard is starting week one, and yet everyone thinks Croyle will be starting sooner rather than later this season. What's the problem? You'll get your wish. Croyle will be starting this season and we will see he can do it.

One week of Damon Huard is too many.

Furthermore, starting Huard now and immediately going to Croyle when the going gets tough makes the staff look even more noncommital and spineless than they already do.

I, for one, don't AT ALL believe that Croyle will be starting anytime soon.

Huard will be the starter for the entire season, barring injury, and all we'll hear is that we aren't "mathematically eliminated" from the playoffs.

RustShack
08-27-2007, 01:36 PM
Maybe Huard will have a concussion week one and Croyle will come in and lead the Chiefs to the playoffs with the 2nd highest QB rating in the league.

DaneMcCloud
08-27-2007, 01:42 PM
One week of Damon Huard is too many.

Furthermore, starting Huard now and immediately going to Croyle when the going gets tough makes the staff look even more noncommital and spineless than they already do.

I, for one, don't AT ALL believe that Croyle will be starting anytime soon.

Huard will be the starter for the entire season, barring injury, and all we'll hear is that we aren't "mathematically eliminated" from the playoffs.

Do you honestly believe that Croyle is ready to lead the Chiefs? Seriously? Based on what?

To me, other than one series, Croyle looked like the same guy that threw two horrible interceptions in the Pittsburgh game. He looks to me as if he has a long, long way to go before becoming a legitimate starting NFL QB.

Matt Blundin tore it up in the 1993 pre-season. Look how THAT turned out.

kcchiefsus
08-27-2007, 01:42 PM
Maybe Huard will have a concussion week one and Croyle will come in and lead the Chiefs to the playoffs with the 2nd highest QB rating in the league.

We can only hope.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 01:44 PM
Do you honestly believe that Croyle is ready to lead the Chiefs? Seriously? Based on what?

To me, other than one series, Croyle looked like the same guy that threw two horrible interceptions in the Pittsburgh game. He looks to me as if he has a long, long way to go before becoming a legitimate starting NFL QB.

Matt Blundin tore it up in the 1993 pre-season. Look how THAT turned out.

I don't know ANYTHING about Croyle because I haven't seen him PLAY.

He may turn out to be a complete bust - in that case, we should have plenty of advance warning so that we can draft another QB.

This isn't about Croyle anymore, it's about the short-sightedness of starting Damon Huard.

RustShack
08-27-2007, 01:50 PM
Croyle hasn't had a good LT yet, he hasn't had LJ, he hasn't had any real good WR to throw to, he hasn't brought out the whole playbook. Huard hasn't been all that impressive in preseason either, and I don't really care about our preseason record at all. I don't think we are that much better off starting Huard, and in my opinion I still think Croyle should be our Quarterback. Since Huard is our opening day start I think we should just let Croyle play the most if not all of the St. Louis game to get more experience.

noa
08-27-2007, 01:51 PM
He may turn out to be a complete bust - in that case, we should have plenty of advance warning so that we can draft another QB.

Cleo Lemon is going to be a free agent next season

Rausch
08-27-2007, 01:54 PM
Maybe Huard will have a concussion week one and Croyle will come in and lead the Chiefs to the playoffs with the 2nd highest QB rating in the league.

Not possible... :)

DaneMcCloud
08-27-2007, 01:56 PM
I don't know ANYTHING about Croyle because I haven't seen him PLAY.

He may turn out to be a complete bust - in that case, we should have plenty of advance warning so that we can draft another QB.

This isn't about Croyle anymore, it's about the short-sightedness of starting Damon Huard.

You haven't seen any of the pre-season games?

Huard, for better or worse, is clearly the best QB on the Chiefs roster at this point in time. I don't think there's any "short-sightedness" involved in that decision.

If you're questioning whether or not the Chiefs should have brought in a superior talented QB in the offseason (whether through the draft or free-agency), that's a valid point. Culpepper is more talented than Huard or Croyle, has experience and would have been cheap. There were other QB's available in the draft that would have been an upgrade at some point.

But at this point in time, Damon Huard is the best QB on the Chiefs roster. And because of that, he should start the NFL season for the Chiefs.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 02:07 PM
You haven't seen any of the pre-season games?

Vanilla game plans. Porous offensive line. Missing offensive MVP from last season. Yeah, I've seen every preseason game.

Huard, for better or worse, is clearly the best QB on the Chiefs roster at this point in time. I don't think there's any "short-sightedness" involved in that decision.

There's no short-sightedness in the decision, especially if you're on-board with the Chiefs and the "all we're shooting for is a spot in the playoffs" mantra.

If you're questioning whether or not the Chiefs should have brought in a superior talented QB in the offseason (whether through the draft or free-agency), that's a valid point. Culpepper is more talented than Huard or Croyle, has experience and would have been cheap. There were other QB's available in the draft that would have been an upgrade at some point.

I thought we were having a serious conversation here, then you brought up Culpepper...

But at this point in time, Damon Huard is the best QB on the Chiefs roster. And because of that, he should start the NFL season for the Chiefs.

I can't wait for 8 and 8!

DaneMcCloud
08-27-2007, 02:15 PM
Vanilla game plans. Porous offensive line. Missing offensive MVP from last season. Yeah, I've seen every preseason game.

You said you hadn't seen him play. Excuse me for not being a mind-reader.

There's no short-sightedness in the decision, especially if you're on-board with the Chiefs and the "all we're shooting for is a spot in the playoffs" mantra.

Starting a young QB just to start a young QB is just plain stupid. Croyle isn't ready to start as an NFL QB. He may never be ready. He was a third round selection, he wasn't the number one overall pick. There are obviously conflicting opinions of his talent but watching him in preseason and on Hard Knocks doesn't give me a "warm and fuzzy" about his future.

I thought we were having a serious conversation here, then you brought up Culpepper...

Uh, if you don't think the Culpepper is a superior talent to Huard and especially Croyle at this point, I don't know if you've ever watched an NFL game outside of the Chiefs. The man has been a Pro-Bowl QB and a co-MVP of the league. When either Huard or Croyle reach that status, we might be able to have a discussion of who's better. But at this point, it's not even close.

I can't wait for 8 and 8!

How is this different than any other Chiefs season?

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 02:20 PM
Huard, for better or worse, is clearly the best QB on the Chiefs roster at this point in time. I don't think there's any "short-sightedness" involved in that decision.

It doesn't matter if he's the best or not, because at his best, we go 9-7 or 8-8. Once again, spinning our wheels, no closer to the goal.

It would be different if we had come up just short last year, and were trying to make the push to an AFC Championship game.

We're not. Not even close.

What are the benefits, as an organization, of starting a 34 year old QB who has NO CHANCE of leading us to a SB. Or even an AFC Championship game?

What is the difference between going 8-8 with Huard, or 6-10 with Croyle?

The only difference is that if you start Croyle, you get him the experience he desperately needs, and you haven't WASTED another season (in 2008) to find out what you have in the kid.

People act like were the ****ing Chargers or the Ravens. Knocking on the door.

This team couldn't get out of the first round of the playoffs in the NFC. What do we possibly have to LOSE by getting a head start on out future?

A couple of wins?

Skip Towne
08-27-2007, 02:20 PM
When is the next episode of Huard Knocks?

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 02:20 PM
You said you hadn't seen him play. Excuse me for not being a mind-reader.

Have YOU seen him play? Other than a few minutes during the blowout in Pittsburgh, when has he actually PLAYED? This preseason has been a complete joke. Kinda hard to evaluate a QB under these circumstances.

Starting a young QB just to start a young QB is just plain stupid.

It might be, if you were a serious Super Bowl contender or had been in the recent past. But when you haven't won a playoff game in 15 years, NO move is stupid. Sorry.

Croyle isn't ready to start as an NFL QB. He may never be ready. He was a third round selection, he wasn't the number one overall pick. There are obviously conflicting opinions of his talent but watching him in preseason and on Hard Knocks doesn't give me a "warm and fuzzy" about his future.

If he may never be ready, there's no better time than NOW to find out. Unless of course you're not interested in making the team better but rather just interested in filling the seats.

Uh, if you don't think the Culpepper is a superior talent to Huard and especially Croyle at this point, I don't know if you've ever watched an NFL game outside of the Chiefs. The man has been a Pro-Bowl QB and a co-MVP of the league. When either Huard or Croyle reach that status, we might be able to have a discussion of who's better. But at this point, it's not even close.

I'll bet I've seen Culpepper play more than you have. He's an oversized turnover machine that throws the jump ball with the best of them. Without Randy Moss, he's been mediocre at best. As of late, he can't even RUN, let alone play live football. Huard is ABSOLUTELY better than Culpepper as of right now.

How is this different than any other Chiefs season?

It isn't. Which is why I'm pissed. I'm fed up with it.

Donger
08-27-2007, 02:27 PM
I had some trepidation at first, but this convinced me otherwise:

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Messier
08-27-2007, 02:27 PM
I don't know ANYTHING about Croyle because I haven't seen him PLAY.

He may turn out to be a complete bust - in that case, we should have plenty of advance warning so that we can draft another QB.

This isn't about Croyle anymore, it's about the short-sightedness of starting Damon Huard.


There are two QB's the Chiefs are considering starting (Printers isn't a real option) One is a second year player that hasn't excelled in the preseason. You can say it was a vanilla offense, poor line play, no LJ, I don't care, he didn't separate himself. The other QB started 8 games last year was the second highest rated QB during that time and fared well. This is the information the Chiefs are going on to make the decision. Now, you seem to want to start Croyle, not because you believe he's the answer, you seem to want to start him because he's an unknown and just change for change sake. That's not a good plan at QB. It's just not.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 02:29 PM
There are two QB's the Chiefs are considering starting (Printers isn't a real option) One is a second year player that hasn't excelled in the preseason. You can say it was a vanilla offense, poor line play, no LJ, I don't care, he didn't separate himself. The other QB started 8 games last year was the second highest rated QB during that time and fared well. This is the information the Chiefs are going on to make the decision. Now, you seem to want to start Croyle, not because you believe he's the answer, you seem to want to start him because he's an unknown and just change for change sake. That's not a good plan at QB. It's just not.

Nope. A good plan at QB is to continue to do what we've done for the past 18 seasons. It's worked so, so well.

Inspector
08-27-2007, 02:32 PM
ROFL

I know that pre-season is meaningless and we're not supposed to get things twisted, but this is enough to put a kinko in the cocko.

Chiefs Pre-Season Offensive Rankings

PTS - 9.7 (32nd)
YDS - 212.7 (31st)
PASS YDS - 144.3 (30th)
RUSH YDS - 68.3 (29th)

http://www.nfl.com/teams/kansascitychiefs/statistics?team=KC

FAX

So...you're saying we're NOT the worst!!

All Right!!!!

Coogs
08-27-2007, 02:33 PM
Starting a young QB just to start a young QB is just plain stupid. Croyle isn't ready to start as an NFL QB. He may never be ready. He was a third round selection, he wasn't the number one overall pick. There are obviously conflicting opinions of his talent but watching him in preseason and on Hard Knocks doesn't give me a "warm and fuzzy" about his future.

I have re-watched the first half of the Saints game twice. And Croyle really did not play all that bad. He had us moving on the first drive, but the motion penalty on bigfoot did us in. Still nearly got the 1st down. A late LB blitz looping around the right side that was not picked up killed a drive. A dropped pass killed another drive.

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 02:34 PM
There are two QB's the Chiefs are considering starting (Printers isn't a real option) One is a second year player that hasn't excelled in the preseason. You can say it was a vanilla offense, poor line play, no LJ, I don't care, he didn't separate himself. The other QB started 8 games last year was the second highest rated QB during that time and fared well. This is the information the Chiefs are going on to make the decision. Now, you seem to want to start Croyle, not because you believe he's the answer, you seem to want to start him because he's an unknown and just change for change sake. That's not a good plan at QB. It's just not.


:banghead:

Dear God.....

We're not looking to change for change's sake.

This isn't about people liking Croyle more than Huard....

It's about not accepting the status quo.

And at some point, probably around the 1st week of January.....after everyone finishes high-fiving each other over another 8-8 season.....it will hit the Huard backers.

Wow. That was fun. Another .500 season......What a waste.

*light bulb goes off*

You know...maybe we SHOULD have started Croyle and got him the experience he needs to be succcessful and to be properly evaluated.....

BigMeatballDave
08-27-2007, 02:34 PM
Damon Huard is a stop gap QB with no upside.

Herman Edwards is a stop gap HC with no upside.

The less time Croyle plays now, the more he has left in the tank when Edwards and Peterson are gone.
ROFL :clap: Amen, Brother...

beach tribe
08-27-2007, 02:36 PM
Maybe Huard will have a concussion week one and Croyle will come in and lead the Chiefs to the playoffs with the 2nd highest QB rating in the league.
We will quickly dismiss this as a fluke.

BigMeatballDave
08-27-2007, 02:37 PM
Just wondering... will people be mad about Huard starting if he performs well and gets us to the playoffs?If he wins a SB?( LMAO ) No.

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 02:37 PM
I have re-watched the first half of the Saints game twice. And Croyle really did not play all that bad. He had us moving on the first drive, but the motion penalty on bigfoot did us in. Still nearly got the 1st down. A late LB blitz looping around the right side that was not picked up killed a drive. A dropped pass killed another drive.

A holding penalty brought back a nice pickup. Drops by Bennett, Parker and Smith. The list goes on.

All things that WILL happen come the regular season, yet for some reason, people will defend Huard.

BigMeatballDave
08-27-2007, 02:38 PM
huard is a great story. You have to love a guy who has paid his dues then came in and lit it up. What a story. We were sitting around the water cooler talking about that when he was named the starter. A real working class hero who always was behind the pretty boys. He had all the traits of the great chiefs Then when he got his chance he went out there and fumbled like dave krieg, threw swing passes like bono, and had the mobility of Grbac.LMAO I am gonna pretend this is toungue-in-cheek...

BigMeatballDave
08-27-2007, 02:46 PM
Good question. I guess there's always got to be something to complain about around here. The season hasn't even started and half the board has not only thrown in the towel, but they're whining about the Chiefs not actively trying to make it the worst season since the depths of Chiefs football in the 70's/80's. With friends like these, who needs Raiders fans.Yay, You go, Carl...

BigMeatballDave
08-27-2007, 02:50 PM
I like the fact that kansas city is finally not rushing a young player. Give him some time let huard show him how a pro goes about his business. Rockstar timeLMAO Jesus, you're laying it on thick...

BigMeatballDave
08-27-2007, 02:54 PM
Well I for one agree with you, (at least not as a starter) and have felt that way from day 1. Even said it here a few times and got FLAMED for it. :rolleyes:

But I'm also pulling for the kid to prove me wrong and everyone else right who has disagreed with me on the subject. Because, if I'm right - we all lose.When you look at it this way, Its OK to be wrong. If he fails, you don't set yourself up for a fall. Lousy way to go through life...

FAX
08-27-2007, 02:56 PM
I think this is funny, too.

According to NFL.com, Downfield's pre-season passer rating was 29.6. He beat out Ingle Martin (25.0), Paul Thompson (24.6 ), Darrell Hackney (13.0 ), David Greene (8.6), Toby Korrodi (6.9) and Derek Devine (0.0) ranking 111th out of 117.

I know pre-season doesn't mean much, but jeez.

FAX

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 02:59 PM
I think this is funny, too.

According to NFL.com, Downfield's pre-season passer rating was 29.6. He beat out Ingle Martin (25.0), Paul Thompson (24.6 ), Darrell Hackney (13.0 ), David Greene (8.6), Toby Korrodi (6.9) and Derek Devine (0.0) ranking 111th out of 117.

I know pre-season doesn't mean much, but jeez.

FAX

What about his 45 passing yards, Mr. FAX?

Where does that rank?

Inquiring minds who are to lazy to look it up want to know......

FAX
08-27-2007, 03:03 PM
What about his 45 passing yards, Mr. FAX?

Where does that rank?

Inquiring minds who are to lazy to look it up want to know......

Downfield came in a solid 100th out of 113. Right behind Jason Fife who edged him out by two yards, Mr. OnTheWarpath58.

FAX

beach tribe
08-27-2007, 03:03 PM
I really hope that Croyle sees the field soon, but am not upset that he will not face the Texans, and Bears on the road behind a line that has had no time to gel.

Hopefully he'll get his chance after McIntosh? settles in.

I would hate to see him get shell shocked like David Carr.

BigRedChief
08-27-2007, 03:09 PM
Nope. A good plan at QB is to continue to do what we've done for the past 18 seasons. It's worked so, so well.

My GM job description says win the Super Bowl, not just be competitive. But we have to assume thats job one for King Carl. I'm the one laying out $3K a year to support that goal. If the goal is really is to never go 4-12 and never fall below 7-9 then they are no longer going to get my $3k. I'll always be a fan. I was here long before King Carl. I'm not going anywhere as a fan. Just that I've reached my limit on how much of my families money to invest in being a fan on the Chiefs if the plan is to be average.

DaneMcCloud
08-27-2007, 03:12 PM
Have YOU seen him play? Other than a few minutes during the blowout in Pittsburgh, when has he actually PLAYED? This preseason has been a complete joke. Kinda hard to evaluate a QB under these circumstances.

Yes, in the Pittsburgh game, all three preseason games and HBO Hard Knocks. Probably as much as anyone outside of the RF visitors and coaching staff. Croyle does not look ready to lead an NFL team into the season. I wish he looked ready but he doesn't. At all.

It might be, if you were a serious Super Bowl contender or had been in the recent past. But when you haven't won a playoff game in 15 years, NO move is stupid. Sorry.

I still don't think starting a young QB just because he's young is the correct decision. If Croyle hadn't made the mistakes he made in practice and in the games, then we'd have a different story. But he's made poor decisions time after time. He's had ONE good drive that we've seen. ONE. That doesn't seem like a good reason for him to be behind center in Houston.

If he may never be ready, there's no better time than NOW to find out. Unless of course you're not interested in making the team better but rather just interested in filling the seats.

I think the coaching staff HAS FOUND OUT that he's not ready. Why should they PROVE it to the fans? Should the Chiefs organization jeopardize a chance to win at Houston by starting Croyle, just to PROVE he's not ready? That sounds ridiculous to me.

I'll bet I've seen Culpepper play more than you have. He's an oversized turnover machine that throws the jump ball with the best of them. Without Randy Moss, he's been mediocre at best. As of late, he can't even RUN, let alone play live football. Huard is ABSOLUTELY better than Culpepper as of right now.

I doubt it. I've had the ticket since 2003 and before that, spent my Sundays at Dublin's Sports Bar in Hollywood watching the Chiefs games and any other NFL games that were broadcast from 10am to 8pm PST. I've seen Culpepper play plenty in the NFL and several games in college. With good players and good coaching/play calling, he is an upper-echelon QB in the NFL. Huard hasn't proved that he's an upper-echelon guy and Croyle can't even make it to the field.

It isn't. Which is why I'm pissed. I'm fed up with it.

The Chiefs are in a major rebuilding process. They are missing several pieces to their puzzle. If they had competent starting tackles and receivers who could actually catch the ball, I'd be upset that Croyle wasn't given a chance to start. But they don't. If this team makes it to 8-8 this year, Herm should win coach of the year, because this team is devoid of youthful talent.

Skip Towne
08-27-2007, 03:17 PM
Croyle is grounded until he gets more flying hours.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 03:22 PM
I think the coaching staff HAS FOUND OUT that he's not ready. Why should they PROVE it to the fans? Should the Chiefs organization jeopardize a chance to win at Houston by starting Croyle, just to PROVE he's not ready? That sounds ridiculous to me.

If they care about the future, YES. But they don't. They care about THIS SEASON. They care about season tickets and sellouts. They absolutely don't want to jeopardize a win at Houston, especially if it means we get a shot at having the NFL laugh at us again during the playoffs.

I doubt it. I've had the ticket since 2003 and before that, spent my Sundays at Dublin's Sports Bar in Hollywood watching the Chiefs games and any other NFL games that were broadcast from 10am to 8pm PST. I've seen Culpepper play plenty in the NFL and several games in college. With good players and good coaching/play calling, he is an upper-echelon QB in the NFL. Huard hasn't proved that he's an upper-echelon guy and Croyle can't even make it to the field.

I'm in the Vikings' local market. The fact that you think Culpepper is an upper-echelon QB means one of two things:

1) I've seen him ALOT more than you have or

2) You don't have a clue what an upper-echelon QB is.

FAX
08-27-2007, 03:24 PM
Career-wise, this isn't the worst thing that could happen to Croyle. When Hermoine drives the Doom Train off the Ledge of Disaster and into the Chasm of Last Place, Brodie won't be taking the heat.

Other than Mr. htismaqe and myself, the person I feel the most sorry for is LJ. Herm and Solari are going to kill the guy. Downfield will be taking short passes, so the enemy can still flood the box. LJ may have a lot of money, but he'll be 2 inches shorter by the end of the season.

FAX

Chiefnj2
08-27-2007, 03:24 PM
Htis,

would you be happy if Printers was named the starter?

DaneMcCloud
08-27-2007, 03:26 PM
If they care about the future, YES. But they don't. They care about THIS SEASON. They care about season tickets and sellouts. They absolutely don't want to jeopardize a win at Houston, especially if it means we get a shot at having the NFL laugh at us again during the playoffs.

How about this: The Chiefs organization cares about the future and is now convinced that Croyle isn't READY to be the future?



I'm in the Vikings' local market. The fact that you think Culpepper is an upper-echelon QB means one of two things:

1) I've seen him ALOT more than you have or

2) You don't have a clue what an upper-echelon QB is.

Is he Peyton Manning? No. Was he a Pro-Bowler? Yes. Was he Co-MVP? Yes. Is he better than Huard or Croyle? Yes.

Is he a HOFer? Not at this point in time. But keep in mind, this league is devoid of QB's. Outside of a select few (Manning and Brady), the majority are JUST GUYS.

the Talking Can
08-27-2007, 03:27 PM
wow, I missed a doozy of a thread...

I'm going to start at the beginning try to make it through without either crying or laughing to death...

here goes...win now!


ps

htismage is right

OctoberFart
08-27-2007, 03:29 PM
KC will be a much better team with Huard at the helm than Croyle. The problem is that KC isn't going win anything this year and if they truly believe Croyle is the QBOTF than they need to let him take his licks and start him from the week 1. The end result would probably be 6 wins with Croyle vs 8 with Huard.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 03:30 PM
Htis,

would you be happy if Printers was named the starter?

Prior to this, no. Because I don't think he has what it takes.

But if this is the way they're going to play it, yes. Because anything is better than another season of this.

beach tribe
08-27-2007, 03:30 PM
Culpepper WAS an upper-echelon QB. 39 tds 11int 110rtng 4700yds,but that was a long time ago.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 03:32 PM
How about this: The Chiefs organization cares about the future and is now convinced that Croyle isn't READY to be the future?

Play him and PROVE IT. Then draft another QB and move on. You know damn well they're not convinced of anything other than the fact that Damon Huard has a better chance of getting them into "contention" which means more ticket sales.

Is he Peyton Manning? No. Was he a Pro-Bowler? Yes. Was he Co-MVP? Yes. Is he better than Huard or Croyle? Yes.

Is he a HOFer? Not at this point in time. But keep in mind, this league is devoid of QB's. Outside of a select few (Manning and Brady), the majority are JUST GUYS.

The Co-MVP is bullshit. Just like the Pro-Bowl. He had a GREAT WR, and when that WR was gone, the jump ball disappeared.

Just like Culpepper's "MVP" ability.

DaneMcCloud
08-27-2007, 03:35 PM
Play him and PROVE IT. Then draft another QB and move on. You know damn well they're not convinced of anything other than the fact that Damon Huard has a better chance of getting them into "contention" which means more ticket sales.



The Co-MVP is bullshit. Just like the Pro-Bowl. He had a GREAT WR, and when that WR was gone, the jump ball disappeared.

Just like Culpepper's "MVP" ability.

If you think Culpepper doesn't have any ability, how can you possibly think that Croyle should be the starter for the Chiefs? Because he's young and on the roster?

If your only justification for starting Croyle is because "you're sick of this", then that's not a very rational decision and certainly not based in logic.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 03:39 PM
If you think Culpepper doesn't have any ability, how can you possibly think that Croyle should be the starter for the Chiefs? Because he's young and on the roster?

If your only justification for starting Croyle is because "you're sick of this", then that's not a very rational decision and certainly not based in logic.

Croyle demonstrated all of the necessary tools coming out of college, according to scouts. Much more so than Daunte Culpepper did. Culpepper DEVELOPED into the QB he was prior to Moss leaving and his injuries in part because Denny Green had the BALLS to put him in there and let him play.

And no it's not a rational decision at all. Rationality has gotten us nearly two decades of futility.

steelyeyed57
08-27-2007, 03:42 PM
Thought this would fit in this thread..

Chiefnj2
08-27-2007, 03:42 PM
Kind of interesting. Everyone says Huard can't go downfield (which may be true), but according to last years stats here are the number of completed passes that ended up being 40+ yards:

Manning 7
Huard 5
Rivers 5
McNair 3
Cutler 2
Young 1

FAX
08-27-2007, 03:42 PM
Since Downfield will be on IR with massive ass-bruising by game 2, this issue is .... MOOT!!! In all likelihood, with this o-line, we'll have gone through every quarterback on the roster by the end of the season.

Roll on, doom train.

FAX

Wilson
08-27-2007, 03:43 PM
http://diy.despair.com/output/poster11792742.jpg

steelyeyed57
08-27-2007, 03:43 PM
it is

the Talking Can
08-27-2007, 03:45 PM
nevermind, can't read this stuff

here's a paraphrase:

Carl says "abracadabra" and all Chiefs fans fall in love with a 34 yr old career backup who has never played a full season.

win now...window of opportunity...anything can happen...

Carl is a MOTHER****ING PIMP ASS MAGICIAN GENIE GENIOUS WHO CAN PIMP SLAP REALITY. I'm going to steal his blood to study it just like in Blade 3.

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 03:45 PM
KC will be a much better team with Huard at the helm than Croyle. The problem is that KC isn't going win anything this year and if they truly believe Croyle is the QBOTF than they need to let him take his licks and start him from the week 1. The end result would probably be 6 wins with Croyle vs 8 with Huard.

Holy Jesus.

Even a Raiders troll has seen the light.

BigMeatballDave
08-27-2007, 03:45 PM
If you think Culpepper doesn't have any ability, how can you possibly think that Croyle should be the starter for the Chiefs? Because he's young and on the roster?

If your only justification for starting Croyle is because "you're sick of this", then that's not a very rational decision and certainly not based in logic.Sorry, Moss was Culpepper's bread and butter. ANYONE can see that...

DaneMcCloud
08-27-2007, 03:47 PM
Croyle demonstrated all of the necessary tools coming out of college, according to scouts. Much more so than Daunte Culpepper did. Culpepper DEVELOPED into the QB he was prior to Moss leaving and his injuries in part because Denny Green had the BALLS to put him in there and let him play.

And no it's not a rational decision at all. Rationality has gotten us nearly two decades of futility.

ROFL

If that's the case, why was Culpepper drafted number 11 overall, yet Croyle fell to the mid-third round?

Culpepper didn't even play his first season. Once Croyle or Huard has 137 TD to 89 INT's, maybe we can have a discussion about who's more talented.

BigMeatballDave
08-27-2007, 03:48 PM
Hey, thanks for my new desktop, Wilson...

BigMeatballDave
08-27-2007, 03:49 PM
it isLMAO

DaneMcCloud
08-27-2007, 03:49 PM
Sorry, Moss was Culpepper's bread and butter. ANYONE can see that...

Really? How's that work out with Collins? Or Walters? Or Brooks?

BigMeatballDave
08-27-2007, 03:53 PM
ROFL

If that's the case, why was Culpepper drafted number 11 overall, yet Croyle fell to the mid-third round?

Because he is/was overrated. Why was Tom Brady not drafted until the 7th round?

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 03:53 PM
ROFL

If that's the case, why was Culpepper drafted number 11 overall, yet Croyle fell to the mid-third round?

Culpepper didn't even play his first season. Once Croyle or Huard has 137 TD to 89 INT's, maybe we can have a discussion about who's more talented.

250-lb. linebacker body with HUGE arm

vs. oft-injured 205-pound slight-of-build

BigMeatballDave
08-27-2007, 03:53 PM
Really? How's that work out with Collins? Or Walters? Or Brooks?The Raiders? End of Discussion.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 03:54 PM
Really? How's that work out with Collins? Or Walters? Or Brooks?

ROFL

You're talking about the goddamn RAIDERS.

ROFL ROFL ROFL

Mr. Laz
08-27-2007, 04:05 PM
I'm upset that Huard got the nod as well, but I think this team is a lot better than people recognize.
what's the purpose of dropping DE's into coverage again??

|Zach|
08-27-2007, 04:09 PM
A few days have passed and I just don't think that the fact that change is needed around here is enough to automatically give Croyle the job. The guy just looks sooo lost. You would think if he was going to blossom into the QB he is supposed to be he would have been at least a littler closer to a polished QB. We got nothing.

I think Herm and Peterson would be falling over themselves to make Croyle the guy if he had given them any reason too. He didn't.

I like Croyle a lot...and I think I might pull the trigger on him if it were not my decision. But I am surprised at all this outrage.

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2007, 04:09 PM
Kind of interesting. Everyone says Huard can't go downfield (which may be true), but according to last years stats here are the number of completed passes that ended up being 40+ yards:

Manning 7
Huard 5
Rivers 5
McNair 3
Cutler 2
Young 1

More stats:

Attempts over 31 yards:

8-18
44.4comp %
179 yards
1TD
78 Long (screen pass to LJ in Arizona game)

44% of his yardage came after the catch on the LJ screen pass @ Arizona. I'd be curious to find out the YAC on some of the others.

I know the 40 yarder to Kennison in the Jacksonville game was a true deep ball.

As was the the 43 yarder to Parker in the STL game.

BigMeatballDave
08-27-2007, 04:14 PM
But I am surprised at all this outrage.I am too, because we should know by now, it is all about the Benjamins...

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 04:23 PM
A few days have passed and I just don't think that the fact that change is needed around here is enough to automatically give Croyle the job. The guy just looks sooo lost. You would think if he was going to blossom into the QB he is supposed to be he would have been at least a littler closer to a polished QB. We got nothing.

I think Herm and Peterson would be falling over themselves to make Croyle the guy if he had given them any reason too. He didn't.

I like Croyle a lot...and I think I might pull the trigger on him if it were not my decision. But I am surprised at all this outrage.

I think alot of people here are surprised at the outrage.

Of course, they're asking themselves "What took so long for this dumb**** to figure out that Carl and Herm are what they are."

No wonder people have been laughing at me all this time. I was defending a bunch of people that didn't deserve defending.

Otter
08-27-2007, 04:26 PM
ROFL

If that's the case, why was Culpepper drafted number 11 overall, yet Croyle fell to the mid-third round?

If your argument is where Croyle was drafted, let's have a look at our quarterbacks for the last decade, shall we?

* Trent Green was drafted as the twenty sixth pick in the eighth round and 222nd overall by the San Diego Chargers

* Elvis Grbac was drafted in the eighth round of the 1993 NFL Draft by the 49ers.

* Steve Bono Drafted: Selected by the Minnesota Vikings in the sixth round (142nd pick overall) of the 1985 NFL draft.

* Joe Montana was selected by the San Francisco 49ers in the third round of the 1979 NFL Draft.

* Dave Krieg - was not chosen in the NFL draft but picked up as undrafted free agent

If that is indeed your criteria, he's the highest drafted QB on the list. So he should start right?

|Zach|
08-27-2007, 04:26 PM
I am too, because we should know by now, it is all about the Benjamins...
What could make more money than a successful team.

|Zach|
08-27-2007, 04:28 PM
I think alot of people here are surprised at the outrage.

Of course, they're asking themselves "What took so long for this dumb**** to figure out that Carl and Herm are what they are."

No wonder people have been laughing at me all this time. I was defending a bunch of people that didn't deserve defending.
I just think this is on Croyle.

I think it is irresponsible to throw out a QB who obviously wasn't ready for the big show.

The whole thing people said...alll offseason. This is Croyle's job unless he screws it up or looks horrible.

Well thats EXACTLY what happened.

|Zach|
08-27-2007, 04:29 PM
I also reject the idea that Chiefs fans were ready to wait for Croyle to come along.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 04:30 PM
If your argument is where Croyle was drafted, let's have a look at our quarterbacks for the last decade, shall we?

* Trent Green was drafted as the twenty sixth pick in the eighth round and 222nd overall by the San Diego Chargers

* Elvis Grbac was drafted in the eighth round of the 1993 NFL Draft by the 49ers.

* Steve Bono Drafted: Selected by the Minnesota Vikings in the sixth round (142nd pick overall) of the 1985 NFL draft.

* Joe Montana was selected by the San Francisco 49ers in the third round of the 1979 NFL Draft.

If that is indeed your criteria, he's the highest drafted QB on the list. So he should start right?

Where was Damon Huard drafted? :hmmm:

|Zach|
08-27-2007, 04:30 PM
Why is it too much to ask that the person chosen to play QB for the Kansas City Chiefs look like a competent player between the lines.

'Hamas' Jenkins
08-27-2007, 04:31 PM
I think alot of people here are surprised at the outrage.

Of course, they're asking themselves "What took so long for this dumb**** to figure out that Carl and Herm are what they are."

No wonder people have been laughing at me all this time. I was defending a bunch of people that didn't deserve defending.

I'm just glad you finally saw the light. Herm is a sack of shit politician, not a head coach--that's why he allowed the whole Hard Knocks thing in the first place. He's a conformist, coward, sonofabitch, and you can't win anything when your leader is a goddamned coward.

Welcome to the dark side, and let your hate flow through you. Feel it make you stronger.

My personal goal for the year: To start a "Herm's a c*nt" chant in my section.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 04:31 PM
I just think this is on Croyle.

I think it is irresponsible to throw out a QB who obviously wasn't ready for the big show.

The whole thing people said...alll offseason. This is Croyle's job unless he screws it up or looks horrible.

Well thats EXACTLY what happened.

The kid needs experience, in regular season games.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 04:33 PM
I also reject the idea that Chiefs fans were ready to wait for Croyle to come along.

I do to. I think the vast majority of fans would be content to go 9-7 or so every year from now to infinity.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 04:34 PM
What could make more money than a successful team.

Nothing. But sometimes in order to make MORE money, you have to risk a short-term setback.

The Chiefs won't do it.

|Zach|
08-27-2007, 04:34 PM
The kid needs experience, in regular season games.
The kid needs to show he can pass it to our players.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 04:35 PM
Why is it too much to ask that the person chosen to play QB for the Kansas City Chiefs look like a competent player between the lines.

Why is it too much to ask that the person chosen to play QB for the Kansas City Chiefs isn't some other teams discarded backup?

Otter
08-27-2007, 04:35 PM
Where was Damon Huard drafted? :hmmm:

Damon Huard was not chosen in the NFL draft but picked up by the practice squad of the Cincinnati Bengals in 1996 as an undrafted free agent.

|Zach|
08-27-2007, 04:36 PM
Why is it too much to ask that the person chosen to play QB for the Kansas City Chiefs isn't some other teams discarded backup?
Nobody wants this to be the situation.

Be mad at the Brodie Croyle. He is the one who doesn't know how to play QB and put us in this situation.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 04:36 PM
The kid needs to show he can pass it to our players.

And when is he supposed to do that?

Everybody says that Damon won the job based on his play last year. His play THIS PRESEASON, as usual, was AWFUL. So it's based on his REGULAR SEASON performance.

The comparison isn't fair.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 04:37 PM
Nobody wants this to be the situation.

Be mad at the Brodie Croyle. He is the one who doesn't know how to play QB and put us in this situation.

If he doesn't know HOW to play QB, why did they draft him? What you're suggesting is that our coaches can't evaluate talent and wasted a first-day draft pick.

There's NO WAY to absolve the coaching staff on this one, sorry.