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View Full Version : Are we better at LB?


runnercyclist
08-27-2007, 11:05 AM
I've watched all three preseason games and I must say I expected to be impressed with this group. DJ should be better with another year of experience and I'm all for Bell losing his job.

I've not seen the gains from DJ I'd hoped. Edwards hasn't shown much and Nap Harris has looked nappy. Key Fox (one of my personal favs) even looks like he's forgotten how to tackle.

This squad should be better than last year. Have you seen improvement or will we?

Hydrae
08-27-2007, 11:06 AM
It's all vanilla preseason crap, nothing to really tell yet.

MGRS13
08-27-2007, 11:28 AM
It's all vanilla preseason crap, nothing to really tell yet."vanilla" is just another 400 lb chiefs gorilla, I've seen every other team in the league blitzing on D and using motion on the line during offensive possesions. I understand you're not going to show your hand alot during preseason but that was the cover two we were running against the saints, and that folks is our defense. Is it better? Hard to tell, but it is what it is. As far as our offense goes thats it, add LJ to what we were doing during the last three games and thats all you get. Solari has 0 reason to be running an NFL offense. He has no creativity and no imagination, its run,run,pass, punt, get used to it- as long as Herm is here its all u get.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 11:30 AM
"vanilla" is just another 400 lb chiefs gorilla, I've seen every other team in the league blitzing on D and using motion on the line during offensive possesions. I understand you're not going to show your hand alot during preseason but that was the cover two we were running against the saints, and that folks is our defense. Is it better? Hard to tell, but it is what it is. As far as our offense goes thats it, add LJ to what we were doing during the last three games and thats all you get. Solari has 0 reason to be running an NFL offense. He has no creativity and no imagination, its run,run,pass, punt, get used to it- as long as Herm is here its all u get.

Solari has worked with, and for, some brilliant offensive coaches. I have no doubt that THIS offense is a product of Solari calling the plays his head coach tells him to call.

cdcox
08-27-2007, 11:31 AM
It's easy to be fooled that we have great LB after the Lew Bush years.

DJ is probably our best LB, but he is only considered average according to the stats compiled by Football Outsiders. He's missed a lot of tackles this preseason. Donnie Edwards is still Donnie Edwards. Very active in downfield coverage, but still tends to get drug downfield on tackles. He'll be a huge upgrade over Bell. I'm not sold on Nap Harris, yet. He SHOULD be an upgrade over KM, but...

We probably don't have anyone that desperately needs to be replaced, but we don't have any probowlers either.

keg in kc
08-27-2007, 11:34 AM
If they're playing 85 snaps every week because the offense 3-and-outs 10 times a game, it wouldn't matter if Jesus was playing linebacker. They're going to wear down. Along with everyone else on the defense.

Particularly if the scheme continues to be designed around the concept of allowing as many yards as possible between the 20s.

MGRS13
08-27-2007, 11:35 AM
Solari has worked with, and for, some brilliant offensive coaches. I have no doubt that THIS offense is a product of Solari calling the plays his head coach tells him to call.
Why would he risk his career? After running this offense he'll never get a chance as an O-cor. again, if he had anything to trick up a D we will see it this year. Hes gonna be facing 11 guys in the box to stop LJ, if he cant beat that D he cant beat any.

Direckshun
08-27-2007, 11:36 AM
Our LBs are doing well, but Bell's still going to be a liability in coverage.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 11:39 AM
Why would he risk his career? After running this offense he'll never get a chance as an O-cor. again, if he had anything to trick up a D we will see it this year. Hes gonna be facing 11 guys in the box to stop LJ, if he cant beat that D he cant beat any.

How is he risking his career? The NFL doesn't do anything except recycle coaches. He'll have a job as long as he wants one.

Chiefnj2
08-27-2007, 11:40 AM
It's hard to tell. The first string D has done a pretty good job on some goal line and short yardage situations. Then again, the playcalling on offense and defense has been pretty plain. The Broncos had a sweet red zone TD right before the half this week. NO basically tried to run it up the gut; I don't think that is really their style or strength.

keg in kc
08-27-2007, 11:40 AM
Why would he risk his career? After running this offense he'll never get a chance as an O-cor. again, if he had anything to trick up a D we will see it this year. Hes gonna be facing 11 guys in the box to stop LJ, if he cant beat that D he cant beat any.If Jimmy Raye can keep getting jobs, Mike Solari can keep getting jobs.

The real irony is that the main reason his offense is failing is the offensive line.

MGRS13
08-27-2007, 11:41 AM
How is he risking his career? The NFL doesn't do anything except recycle coaches. He'll have a job as long as he wants one.
Your a head coach would you really hire the guy who ran this offense?

MGRS13
08-27-2007, 11:43 AM
If Jimmy Raye can keep getting jobs, Mike Solari can keep getting jobs.

The real irony is that the main reason his offense is failing is the offensive line.
The line is awfull. I wont debate you on that, but ask the colts if the line had anything to do with them dominating us in the playoff game. They new exactly what we were gonna do before we left the huttle, you don't win many games being that predictable.

Hydrae
08-27-2007, 11:46 AM
If they're playing 85 snaps every week because the offense 3-and-outs 10 times a game, it wouldn't matter if Jesus was playing linebacker. They're going to wear down. Along with everyone else on the defense.

Particularly if the scheme continues to be designed around the concept of allowing as many yards as possible between the 20s.


I always pictured Jesus as more of a safety. ;)

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 11:47 AM
Your a head coach would you really hire the guy who ran this offense?

I wouldn't.

But guys like Herm would, and HAVE.

Jimmy Raye and Paul Hackett can get jobs. How many times did Dennis Erickson get a shot?

Mike Solari won't have any trouble.

keg in kc
08-27-2007, 11:50 AM
The line is awfull. I wont debate you on that, but ask the colts if the line had anything to do with them dominating us in the playoff game. They new exactly what we were gonna do before we left the huttle, you don't win many games being that predictable.Playcalling is overrated. Football is about talent. About having the ability to line up across from somebody and beat him, whether he knows what play's coming or not. Give Solari the 2003 roster and he'd have one of the league's top offenses. Give Saunders the 2006 roster and we wouldn't get anything better than what we had. You can't complete passes if you only have 1 second in the pocket. You can't run the ball if all the gaps are filled. That's just the way it is.

And that doesn't excuse the coaching staff, Solari included. One of the bigger parts of their job is to evaluate, with the coordination of the front office aquire, and develop players. They're failiing miserably on the offensive line. Which is, as I mentioned, ironic.

MGRS13
08-27-2007, 11:51 AM
I wouldn't.

But guys like Herm would, and HAVE.

Jimmy Raye and Paul Hackett can get jobs. How many times did Dennis Erickson get a shot?

Mike Solari won't have any trouble.
As a line coach sure. But unless Herm,Marty or cowher are involved he'll never be a coordinator again.

Hydrae
08-27-2007, 11:51 AM
I wouldn't.

But guys like Herm would, and HAVE.

Jimmy Raye and Paul Hackett can get jobs. How many times did Dennis Erickson get a shot?

Mike Solari won't have any trouble.

OMG, that is Herm's problem, he can't hire an OC worth a damn. Raye and Hackett both worked for him and now Solari. A definite trend there.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 11:54 AM
Give Solari the 2003 roster and he'd have one of the league's top offenses. Give Saunders the 2006 roster and we wouldn't get anything better than what we had.

Bingo.

MGRS13
08-27-2007, 11:59 AM
Playcalling is overrated. Football is about talent. About having the ability to line up across from somebody and beat him, whether he knows what play's coming or not. Give Solari the 2003 roster and he'd have one of the league's top offenses. Give Saunders the 2006 roster and we wouldn't get anything better than what we had. You can't complete passes if you only have 1 second in the pocket. You can't run the ball if all the gaps are filled. That's just the way it is.

And that doesn't excuse the coaching staff, Solari included. One of the bigger parts of their job is to evaluate, with the coordination of the front office aquire, and develop players. They're failiing miserably on the offensive line. Which is, as I mentioned, ironic.
No I disagree, I mean to a point yea i see where you are coming from. But Solari doesn't even attempt to create mis matches. We just line up on first and second down and run it up the gut then on third down when we need 4-6 yards we throw a 2 yard pass. Thats on the coordinator, despite the talent you have to at least TRY to run plays that would make progress.

Chiefnj2
08-27-2007, 12:03 PM
Months ago I said that Herm was keeping Solari as this years scapegoat. When the offense stumbles Herm will point the finger at Solari and Vermeil and bring in his "own" OC next year.

RustShack
08-27-2007, 12:04 PM
I think our linebackers will be a lot better this year, but if not there is still no way they are any worse.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 12:05 PM
No I disagree, I mean to a point yea i see where you are coming from. But Solari doesn't even attempt to create mis matches. We just line up on first and second down and run it up the gut then on third down when we need 4-6 yards we throw a 2 yard pass. Thats on the coordinator, despite the talent you have to at least TRY to run plays that would make progress.

That's on the head coach. I distinctly remember a preseason game last year where we came out running the offense just like Saunders used to. Herm freaked out about it, even going so far as mentioning in the post-game that we wouldn't be playing like that in the regular season.

RustShack
08-27-2007, 12:05 PM
Months ago I said that Herm was keeping Solari as this years scapegoat. When the offense stumbles Herm will point the finger at Solari and Vermeil and bring in his "own" OC next year.

Maybe he can bring in Dick to be our OC. jk that would never happen.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 12:05 PM
Months ago I said that Herm was keeping Solari as this years scapegoat. When the offense stumbles Herm will point the finger at Solari and Vermeil and bring in his "own" OC next year.

Jimmy Raye? Paul Hackett?

Chiefnj2
08-27-2007, 12:23 PM
Jimmy Raye? Paul Hackett?

No. Too much negative history with KC. My guess would be Bishop Harris.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 12:27 PM
No. Too much negative history with KC. My guess would be Bishop Harris.

What's his background?

Chiefnj2
08-27-2007, 12:30 PM
What's his background?

I might not be recalling the right name. But he was a RB coach with the Jets when Herm was in NY. I think he's with the 49ers.

Simply Red
08-27-2007, 12:33 PM
rigamarole

njbill
08-27-2007, 01:14 PM
Playcalling is overrated. Football is about talent. About having the ability to line up across from somebody and beat him, whether he knows what play's coming or not. Give Solari the 2003 roster and he'd have one of the league's top offenses. Give Saunders the 2006 roster and we wouldn't get anything better than what we had. You can't complete passes if you only have 1 second in the pocket. You can't run the ball if all the gaps are filled. That's just the way it is.

And that doesn't excuse the coaching staff, Solari included. One of the bigger parts of their job is to evaluate, with the coordination of the front office aquire, and develop players. They're failiing miserably on the offensive line. Which is, as I mentioned, ironic.


I disagree strongly. Good playcalling and gameplanning can keep the D off balance with less than optimal personel. The talent is relatively equally distributed, it's a coaches league IMO. The good coaches tend to keep their teams competitive.

Rausch
08-27-2007, 01:18 PM
That's on the head coach. I distinctly remember a preseason game last year where we came out running the offense just like Saunders used to. Herm freaked out about it, even going so far as mentioning in the post-game that we wouldn't be playing like that in the regular season.

But we did. I can't remember if it was the Seattle game or not, pretty sure it was, but we threw the ball all over. Not that it was the norm, but we played more Sanders-like when we had to.

Ok, not when we had to. AT TIMES. Yeah, AT TIMES would be more accurate...

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 01:25 PM
But we did. I can't remember if it was the Seattle game or not, pretty sure it was, but we threw the ball all over. Not that it was the norm, but we played more Sanders-like when we had to.

Ok, not when we had to. AT TIMES. Yeah, AT TIMES would be more accurate...

We did when we had the LUXURY to.

When we HAD to, Herm crawled into his shell...

Rausch
08-27-2007, 01:27 PM
We did when we had the LUXURY to.

When we HAD to, Herm crawled into his shell...


First playoff game EVER that I turned off with time (over 5 minutes) left on the clock... :shake:

Rain Man
08-27-2007, 01:40 PM
Jimmy Raye? Paul Hackett?

"Hello? Is this the suicide hotline?"

LOCOChief
08-27-2007, 01:45 PM
We probably don't have anyone that desperately needs to be replaced, but we don't have any probowlers either.

right and.....wrong
Nobody that needs replacing
Edwards is a probowler, and should have been more than once IMO.

OctoberFart
08-27-2007, 02:23 PM
Nap Harris well is Nap Harris. He isn't going to be a great star now that he is in KC. He is what he is an average player who is good enough to start but won't be a game changer. Solid but not spectacular.

cdcox
08-27-2007, 02:31 PM
right and.....wrong
Nobody that needs replacing
Edwards is a probowler, and should have been more than once IMO.

Edwards went once, as an alternate. The odds are long that he will turn in a probowl performance this season.

RustShack
08-27-2007, 02:45 PM
Ty Law and Patrick Surtain are Pro Bowlers, Jared Allen almost made it once, and Donnie Edwards deserved to be in them more than once.

KCChiefsMan
08-27-2007, 02:52 PM
we are way better at LB. If Nap Harris turns out to be good we could have one of the best LB corps in the NFL.

bobbything
08-27-2007, 03:01 PM
On paper, we're much better at linebacker. If this defense isn't a top 10 defense then our coaching staff is incompetent.

Just my humble opinion.

BigRock
08-27-2007, 03:01 PM
That's on the head coach. I distinctly remember a preseason game last year where we came out running the offense just like Saunders used to. Herm freaked out about it, even going so far as mentioning in the post-game that we wouldn't be playing like that in the regular season.
If it's on the head coach, why did Solari come out in the first game of the season calling pass plays like Al Saunders on crack?

Mr. Laz
08-27-2007, 03:03 PM
Solari has worked with, and for, some brilliant offensive coaches. I have no doubt that THIS offense is a product of Solari calling the plays his head coach tells him to call.
you seem to be changing your tune

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 03:19 PM
If it's on the head coach, why did Solari come out in the first game of the season calling pass plays like Al Saunders on crack?

Because Herm Edwards allowed him to. When Herm saw the results of said playcalling, that was it for Solari's ability to call his own plays.

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 03:20 PM
you seem to be changing your tune

I've always maintained that Solari's playcalling would be, in large part, dictated by the head coach. I've been saying it since the day he was hired.

I just didn't want to let myself believe that Solari would basically acquiesce, nor did I want to let myself believe that Herm was gonna be THIS bad.

I've opened my eyes. So yes, I do seem to be changing my tune.

TEX
08-27-2007, 03:39 PM
I've always maintained that Solari's playcalling would be, in large part, dictated by the head coach. I've been saying it since the day he was hired.

I just didn't want to let myself believe that Solari would basically acquiesce, nor did I want to let myself believe that Herm was gonna be THIS bad.

I've opened my eyes. So yes, I do seem to be changing my tune.

FINALLY we agree on something! :clap:

Remember that preseason game last year when Mike went for it instead of kicking the filed goal and Herm called him out for it afterwards? IMO, that was the begining of the end. You watch what happens to Solari after this season. Herm's gonna throw him under the bus and say some crap like, "He was a first-time OC and I gave him a chance etc."

htismaqe
08-27-2007, 03:40 PM
FINALLY we agree on something! :clap:

Remember that preseason game last year when Mike went for it instead of kicking the filed goal and Herm called him out for it afterwards? IMO, that was the begining of the end. You watch what happens to Solari after this season. Herm's gona throw him under the bus and say some crap like,"I gave him a chance."

ChiefNJ mentioned it earlier today - Herm kept Solari to be the last "Vermeil" scapegoat.

I think you're right.

TEX
08-27-2007, 03:50 PM
ChiefNJ mentioned it earlier today - Herm kept Solari to be the last "Vermeil" scapegoat.

I think you're right.

Yep. He KNEW he could control Solari. He knew he could not control Saundars. That's why Herm said stuff like he didn't see the point in having an OC that would leave to be a HC. The real reason is that Herm is all controlling while being a puppet himself. He won't hire anyone who could one day be a threat. THIS is what my friends in New York meant when they said ,"You'll see." THIS is what I was so afraid of the second Herm was named HC. I knew we would get to this point, we just got here quicker than I expected.

My Uncle made a great observation while watching Hard Knocks last week. He said that Herm isn't a good coach, but he is schrewd and is a survivor. He's right.

LOCOChief
08-27-2007, 03:52 PM
Edwards went once, as an alternate. The odds are long that he will turn in a probowl performance this season.


It's funny either our players are so old they are over the hill and past their prime, or they are too young and green and lacking experience. I have seen nothing in Donnie Edwards to make me think his ability is on the decline, but I guess this is why they play the game.

I wouldn't replace our linebackers with any other AFCW LB corp.

Mr. Laz
08-27-2007, 03:52 PM
i believe some of us were called 'morons' for suggesting this very thing when Herm arrived.


oh know, there is no way that Herm kills this offense .... we just lost willie Roaf.

LOCOChief
08-27-2007, 03:59 PM
Yep. He KNEW he could control Solari. He knew he could not control Saundars. That's why Herm said stuff like he didn't see the point in having an OC that would leave to be a HC. The real reason is that Herm is all controlling while being a puppet himself. He won't hire anyone who could one day be a threat. THIS is what my friends in New York meant when they said ,"You'll see." THIS is what I was so afraid of the second Herm was named HC. I knew we would get to this point, we just got here quicker than I expected.

My Uncle made a great observation while watching Hard Knocks last week. He said that Herm isn't a good coach, but he is schrewd and is a survivor. He's right.



No disrespect intended but that is pretty stupid. HC's control OC's they should because they are the boss's. If Saunders was the OC he would approach the game plan however Herm wanted. I imagine that Herm wants input from his personnel, he delegates well as a good manager should.

LOCOChief
08-27-2007, 04:00 PM
My Uncle made a great observation while watching Hard Knocks last week. He said that Herm isn't a good coach, but he is schrewd and is a survivor. He's right.

Is your uncle an NFL coach or player?

Woodrow Call
08-27-2007, 04:16 PM
i believe some of us were called 'morons' for suggesting this very thing when Herm arrived.


oh know, there is no way that Herm kills this offense .... we just lost willie Roaf.

You're still a moron if you think that Herm killed it all by himself. Too many facts say otherwise. Lack of talent killed it and then Herm buried it.

TEX
08-27-2007, 04:26 PM
Is your uncle an NFL coach or player?

No, but he used to be a scout with the Houston Oilers from 1978 - 1996. He knows his stuff.

BigRock
08-27-2007, 04:33 PM
Because Herm Edwards allowed him to. When Herm saw the results of said playcalling, that was it for Solari's ability to call his own plays.
But that game came after the preseason thing you talked about where Herm vowed not to run the offense a certain way. If Solari is the "puppet" that it's suddenly so en vogue to refer to him as, why would his plan for the first game of the season be the complete opposite of what Herm said he wanted?

TEX
08-27-2007, 04:33 PM
No disrespect intended but that is pretty stupid. HC's control OC's they should because they are the boss's. If Saunders was the OC he would approach the game plan however Herm wanted. I imagine that Herm wants input from his personnel, he delegates well as a good manager should.

None taken. It's not stupid at all if the HC doesn't want a constant battle every week with the OC on how they should approach a game. Or during the game on what they should do depending on down and distance. It's even less stupid if a HC doesn't want anyone to stand in his way to make changes.

the Talking Can
08-27-2007, 05:15 PM
better on paper...haven't seen it yet on the field

I'm very curious to see if whatshisname is actually better than kawika.

Mr. Laz
08-27-2007, 06:30 PM
You're still a moron if you think that Herm killed it all by himself. Too many facts say otherwise. Lack of talent killed it and then Herm buried it.
so who chose this talent?

who coached this talent?

Who pick the coaches?

who took the leagues #1 offense and made it 16th in less than 1 season?

Chiefnj2
08-27-2007, 07:39 PM
Yep. He KNEW he could control Solari. He knew he could not control Saundars. That's why Herm said stuff like he didn't see the point in having an OC that would leave to be a HC. The real reason is that Herm is all controlling while being a puppet himself. He won't hire anyone who could one day be a threat. THIS is what my friends in New York meant when they said ,"You'll see." THIS is what I was so afraid of the second Herm was named HC. I knew we would get to this point, we just got here quicker than I expected.

My Uncle made a great observation while watching Hard Knocks last week. He said that Herm isn't a good coach, but he is schrewd and is a survivor. He's right.

Saunders clashed with Peterson. Supposedly they disagreed on just about every offensive personnel decision. There was no way Saunders was going to stick around unless he was the head coach. It didn't have anything to do with Herm; although I agree Saunders and Herm would have been oil and water.

Herm's a bad X's and O's coach but for some reason, that I'll never understand, he gets the players to rally around him and he's a great motivator. Hermisms must make a lot more sense after you've suffered multiple concussions.