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Taco John
08-28-2007, 01:34 AM
CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS HAVE ONLY ONE CHOICE IN 2008





By Pastor Chuck Baldwin

August 28, 2007

NewsWithViews.com

Let's cut to the chase: conservative Republicans have only one choice for President in 2008: Congressman Ron Paul of Texas. Unlike the GOP frontrunners, Paul is the real deal.

No real conservative could support Rudy Giuliani, Mitt Romney, John McCain, Fred Thompson, or Newt Gingrich. When it comes to historic conservative principles, each of these men is as phony as a three dollar bill. That they are now attempting to cast themselves as conservatives is more than laughable: it is downright hilarious.

For an ongoing review of the major presidential aspirants, I invite readers to visit this web page often.

The more that conservatives (and the rest of America) learn about the GOP's "top tier" candidates, the more they will dislike them. This fact does not bode well for the GOP in the 2008 general election should one of these five men obtain the nomination. Plus, G.W. Bush has forever wasted the antiquated "lesser of two evils" philosophy. As they say here in the south, "That dog won't hunt." Not anymore.

On the whole, Duncan Hunter and Tom Tancredo are head and shoulders above the aforementioned "top tier" candidates, especially on the very important illegal immigration issue. They are also opposed to so-called "free trade" agreements, and they are both pro-Second Amendment. This is a plus. Hunter supports preemptive war, however, and he voted for both the Patriot Act and the Military Commissions Act, which disqualifies him for President, in my judgment. I confess to liking Tom Tancredo. He strikes me as an honest man and was a bulldog in fighting Bush's amnesty for illegal aliens proposal. However, he also voted for the Patriot Act and Military Commissions Act. Mike Huckabee and Sam Brownback are strong on the life issue, but they are dismal on immigration and Big Brother issues. All that said, it is Ron Paul alone who contains the "whole package."

He has a twenty-year record as a conservative congressman that is virtually unblemished. Unlike the vast majority of congressmen and senators in Washington, D.C., Paul consistently honors his oath of office to support, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States. That, all by itself, should be worth a conservative's support.

In fact, Ron Paul has voted against so many unconstitutional bills offered by both Democrats and Republicans that he is known on Capitol Hill as "Dr. No." This moniker comes from both his "no" votes and the fact that Paul is a former medical doctor, an OB/GYN physician who has delivered more than four thousand babies.

If one wants a true photograph of how a congressman or senator votes on conservative, constitutional issues, the best place to look is the Freedom Index in the New American Magazine. Ron Paul almost always ranks as the most conservative congressman from either chamber or either party. His current ranking is 100%, which is a score that few congressmen or senators, except Ron Paul, ever achieve. And Paul does it routinely.

See the Freedom Index here (http://www.jbs.org/files/fi-110-1.pdf).

Ron Paul's commitment to the sanctity of human life goes beyond rhetoric. He is the man who sponsored H.R. 776, entitled the "Sanctity of Life Act of 2005." Had it passed, H.R. 776 would have recognized the personhood of all unborn babies by declaring that "human life shall be deemed to exist from conception." The bill also recognized the authority of each State to protect the lives of unborn children. In addition, H.R. 776 would have removed abortion from the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court, thereby nullifying the Roe v. Wade decision, and would have denied funding for abortion providers. In plain language, H.R. 776 would have ended abortion on demand. (It is more than interesting to me that none of the Religious Right's pet politicians, including George W. Bush, even bothered to support Paul's pro-life bill.)

In addition to being willing to stop the illegal alien invasion, Ron Paul is one of only a handful of congressmen that dares speak out against the emerging North American Union, NAFTA superhighway, and the Security and Prosperity Partnership agreement, all of which are being promoted by the White House in concert with the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR).

Another critical issue in next year's election is the gun issue (it is always a critical issue where freedom is concerned). On this issue, Ron Paul stands atop the field. Because Paul truly supports the Constitution, he truly supports "the right of the people to keep and bear arms." Period. Should Ron Paul become President, gun owners would have the best friend they ever had.

For a comprehensive review of the presidential contenders' records on the Second Amendment, click here.

Regarding the war in Iraq and other foreign policy issues, Paul is a traditional conservative of the order of George Washington and Robert Taft. Not ignorant of military matters (he is an Air Force veteran), Paul subscribes to a historical American approach of no entanglements with foreign nations. In fact, in the area of foreign policy, Ron Paul stands alone as a traditional, constitutional, American statesman.

Unlike his neocon counterparts, Ron Paul believes in an independent America. He believes that it is not America's responsibility to police the world. He believes America's political leaders are duty-bound to protect the interests of the United States, not the interests of internationalists. Accordingly, he opposed the unprovoked and preemptive invasion of Iraq. Time has certainly vindicated Dr. Paul's principled position.

In fact, those conservatives who have followed President Bush's preemptive war doctrine are the ones who have abandoned historical conservative principles. Before G.W. Bush changed the landscape, conservatives, especially Christian conservatives, mostly subscribed to Augustine's "just war" theory regarding accepted protocols for the conduct of war. Today, however, many professing conservatives have foolishly followed Bush's "preemptive war" theory, which, before now, was practiced mostly by pagan emperors. Not so with Ron Paul. As a Christian, he still subscribes to "just war."

Of course, Ron Paul believes in protecting America from terrorists. He authored H.R. 3076, the September 11 Marque and Reprisal Act of 2001. According to Paul, "A letter of marque and reprisal is a constitutional tool specifically designed to give the president the authority to respond with appropriate force to those non-state actors who wage war against the United States while limiting his authority to only those responsible for the atrocities of that day. Such a limited authorization is consistent with the doctrine of just war and the practical aim of keeping Americans safe while minimizing the costs in blood and treasure of waging such an operation."

If the United States government had listened to Ron Paul, we would not have lost nearly 3,500 American soldiers and Marines, spent over $1 trillion, and gotten bogged down in an endless civil war from which there is no equitable extraction. Furthermore, had we listened to Dr. Paul, Osama bin Laden would no doubt be dead, as would most of his al-Qaeda operatives, and we would be less vulnerable to future terrorist attacks, instead of being more vulnerable, which is the case today.

And speaking of Christianity, Ron Paul's testimony is clear. He has publicly acknowledged Jesus Christ as his personal Savior. And for Paul, this is not political posturing, it is a genuine personal commitment. This is easily demonstrated by the fact that he does not wear his Christianity on his sleeve, as do so many politicians (of both parties).

Just recently, Ron Paul said these words, "I have never been one who is comfortable talking about my faith in the political arena. In fact, the pandering that typically occurs in the election season I find to be distasteful. But for those who have asked, I freely confess that Jesus Christ is my personal Savior, and that I seek His guidance in all that I do. I know, as you do, that our freedoms come not from man, but from God. My record of public service reflects my reverence for the Natural Rights with which we have been endowed by a loving Creator."

Could conservative Christians ask for a testimony that is any clearer?

Should Ron Paul win the Republican nomination, he would almost certainly win the general election. His constitutional, common-sense ideals would be attractive to such a broad range of voters, I dare say that he would win a landslide victory, no matter who the Democrats nominated. Conservatives, independents, libertarians, union members, and even some liberals (mostly those who oppose the war in Iraq and Bush's Big Brother schemes) would support Ron Paul. The challenge is winning the Republican nomination.

Face it: the big money interests, the Chamber of Commerce crowd, the international bankers and GOP hierarchy will never support Dr. Paul. He is too honest, too ethical, too constitutional, and too independent for their liking. Therefore, the only chance Ron Paul has of winning the Republican nomination is for every Christian, every conservative, and every constitutionalist within the GOP to get behind him.

Conservative Republicans have only one choice for President in 2008: Ron Paul.

Chuck Baldwin is Founder-Pastor of Crossroads Baptist Church in Pensacola, Florida. In 1985 the church was recognized by President Ronald Reagan for its unusual growth and influence.

Dr. Baldwin is the host of a lively, hard-hitting syndicated radio talk show on the Genesis Communications Network called, "Chuck Baldwin Live" This is a daily, one hour long call-in show in which Dr. Baldwin addresses current event topics from a conservative Christian point of view. Pastor Baldwin writes weekly articles on the internet http://www.ChuckBaldwinLive.com and newspapers.




http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin394.htm

HonestChieffan
08-28-2007, 08:58 AM
That says a lot...another rightwinger nutcase who willl just do more to polarize the republican party at a time when it needs to broaden its appeal....after President Hillary maybe the party will wake up.

BucEyedPea
08-28-2007, 09:06 AM
That says a lot...another rightwinger nutcase who willl just do more to polarize the republican party at a time when it needs to broaden its appeal....after President Hillary maybe the party will wake up.
You must consider that Ronald Reagan was a nut too.
Go join the Democrats or the Socialist Party USA.

HonestChieffan
08-28-2007, 10:17 AM
Reagan was not a nut. What has happened since Reagan is a rapid drift of the party away from Moderate republicans. No diofferent than the Demos who have walked away from moderate democrats.

Both parties have fallen into single issue traps. People who only vote on basis of one issue....good eamples are right to life folks who would vote for attila the hun if he ran on that platform. Or the idiot demos who will vote for anyone who is for nationalized health care. Pick your poison...the fact is both parties abandoned the middle and now Hillary of all people is starting to woo voters who are falling for her new image...why does she get away with it? Because the republicans have not got a real honest moderate to take her on...they seem mired in place doing zero while she is already kicking them.

Its a sad time to be a republican

BucEyedPea
08-28-2007, 10:19 AM
There were many people who felt Reagan was extreme and would even start a war. But he didn't.
Our Founders were considered extremists and nuts too.

The only reason Ron seems extreme is because Pubs, Dems and yes moderates too have shifted left. The center today is now on the left side of the spectrum.

Obviously, you can't add anything to a discussion except for calling someone a nut. You've run away from the American Revolution's idea of limited govt that lets more individuals be their own sovereigns.

Taco John
08-28-2007, 10:21 AM
I think your characterization of Ron Paul isn't fair. Ron Paul isn't going to shove religion down anybody's throats. He will however protect the liberty to practice religion.

One thing Ron Paul isn't, is a single issue candidate. He does, however, need to appeal to single issue voters if he expects to get elected.

Taco John
08-28-2007, 10:23 AM
Also, anyone who thinks Ron Paul is polarizing the Rupblican party is missing the boat entirely. There is no other candidate in the Republican field who has broadened the Republican appeal like Ron Paul currently is, and there hasn't been one since Ronald Reagan.

I know several democrats who say they'd vote for Paul if he is on the ballot.

SBK
08-28-2007, 10:24 AM
The more I read about Ron Paul the more I like him.

Cochise
08-28-2007, 10:25 AM
I think he is a one issue candidate in the sense that he's really only getting attention because he's anti-war. If he had the same position as everyone else on the ticket on Iraq, nobody would know who he was. People like me might support him but neither of you would, I'd wager.

In the end what's going to be written about the Paul candidacy is that the same issue that pulled him up out of the 2-3% range will be the one that covers him with a ceiling around 5th or 6th place.

MGRS13
08-28-2007, 10:25 AM
I think your characterization of Ron Paul isn't fair. Ron Paul isn't going to shove religion down anybody's throats. He will however protect the liberty to practice religion.

One thing Ron Paul isn't, is a single issue candidate. He does, however, need to appeal to single issue voters if he expects to get elected.
Do you think that the 40% of the republican party that vote on the single issue of "Jesus can kick your so called gods ass" can get past the idea that maybe we should admit that some of the middle east problems are our fault?

BucEyedPea
08-28-2007, 10:28 AM
Do you think that the 40% of the republican party that vote on the single issue of "Jesus can kick your so called gods ass" can get past the idea that maybe we should admit that some of the middle east problems are our fault?
That's a good point and why I think it's a tough nomination to get. Nevertheless, we can't sell out just because they exist.
OTOH, the same policy by Hillary plus socialism may help Independents to come in. Just don't know 'til the fat lady sings.

BucEyedPea
08-28-2007, 10:33 AM
I think he is a one issue candidate in the sense that he's really only getting attention because he's anti-war. If he had the same position as everyone else on the ticket on Iraq, nobody would know who he was. People like me might support him but neither of you would, I'd wager.


Well that makes him stand out in the crowd for sure, especially to anti-war Dems. And it's the main issue with the people right now. But he's also excellent on illegal immigration....better than all the other candidates even if it doesn't get much play.

However, he's also the best on nafta/trade/sovereignty issues too. Low Dobbs featured him on that. He didn't get the whole answer he wanted but he did get from Paul that these are not really free-trade, but are loaded with protectionism ( Bush has been a protectionist prez, even)...but mainly they were not serving the people. So those three issues are not outside the mainstream with most Americans. I'd think due to that there'd be a lot of support to change those things or congress would just look even worse and lose their seats.

His non-mainstream issues likely would meet with oppostion but perhaps some middle-ground would likely be reached instead. Not a bad end result overall if ya' ask me.

Afterall, the presidential branch is only one branch of our system of checks n' balances and it is supposed to have less power than congress. He'd restore that
even if his ideas shake up our ruling elites with their media lap dogs going after him non-stop for 4 years.

patteeu
08-28-2007, 10:40 AM
What has happened since Reagan is a rapid drift of the party away from Moderate republicans.

:spock:

Reagan took the Republican party away from it's moderates. It was Reagan conservatism that finally resulted in taking the Congress away from the democrats in 94. If anything, the party has drifted back toward it's moderates. Bush took up Reagan's mantle in a few areas, SCOTUS appointments, growth-oriented tax cuts, attempts to privatize social security, and a foreign policy that isn't afraid of asserting American interests. But in other ways, he followed in his father's footsteps and tried to be "kinder and gentler" (e.g. prescription drugs).

Ron Paul is more of an extremist than Reagan, which IMO is good in some ways and bad in others, but Reagan wasn't a Republican moderate. Olympia Snowe, David Gergen, and James Baker are Republican moderates. Dick Cheney, Ronald Reagan, and Sam Brownback are not.

MGRS13
08-28-2007, 10:40 AM
That's a good point and why I think it's a tough nomination to get. Nevertheless, we can't sell out just because they exist.
OTOH, the same policy by Hillary plus socialism may help Independents to come in. Just don't know 'til the fat lady sings.
I think most independents can admit this......you sort of have to be a bit of a radical not to. Which is why I question whether or not hes all ready burnt his fundamentalist bridge. Mitt will spend alot of money reminding the christian elite that killing everyone who wont convert to christianity(unless they are sole owners of alot of oil) is not on Pauls platform.

Cochise
08-28-2007, 10:43 AM
However, he's also the best on nafta/trade/sovereignty issues too. Low Dobbs featured him on that. He didn't get the whole answer he wanted but he did get from Paul that these are not really free-trade, but are loaded with protectionism ( Bush has been a protectionist prez, even)...but mainly they were not serving the people. So those three issues are not outside the mainstream with most Americans.

:hmmm: ?

Sprechen sie Englisch?

Cochise
08-28-2007, 10:45 AM
:spock:

Reagan took the Republican party away from it's moderates. It was Reagan conservatism that finally resulted in taking the Congress away from the democrats in 94. If anything, the party has drifted back toward it's moderates. Bush took up Reagan's mantle in a few areas, SCOTUS appointments, growth-oriented tax cuts, attempts to privatize social security, and a foreign policy that isn't afraid of asserting American interests. But in other ways, he followed in his father's footsteps and tried to be "kinder and gentler" (e.g. prescription drugs).


Where do people get this idea that Reagan was not conservative?

I mean, if that isn't evidence of the media's power to influence people and rewrite history in their minds, I don't know what is.

BucEyedPea
08-28-2007, 10:48 AM
Ron Paul is more of an extremist than Reagan, which IMO is good in some ways and bad in others, but Reagan wasn't a Republican moderate. Olympia Snowe, David Gergen, and James Baker are Republican moderates.
In that vein, Reagan is a leftist compared to the Founding Fathers of our nation. And Paul is like the Founding Fathers....the extremist of their time.
Afterall, it is a relative term and one person's extremist is another's hero. It's a sad day in America when a potential leader is considered and extremist because he does't support imperial adventures but just cloaks it in the rhetoric of national security or interests. At least Paul is the honest one here.

Dick Cheney, Ronald Reagan, and Sam Brownback are not.
Dick Cheney is another type of extremist. He's not a conservative on foreign policy. He's a hard Wilsonian which is left.

patteeu
08-28-2007, 10:51 AM
One thing Ron Paul isn't, is a single issue candidate. He does, however, need to appeal to single issue voters if he expects to get elected.

I agree with that. Unfortunately, that increases the nut-factor of his constituency.

Taco John
08-28-2007, 10:52 AM
People like me might support him but neither of you would, I'd wager.



You'd be wagering wrong. Ron Paul is my dream candidate. I line up with him on just about every issue there is.

Taco John
08-28-2007, 10:53 AM
I agree with that. Unfortunately, that increases the nut-factor of his constituency.



To what? The level of the nut factor of every other major constituency?

patteeu
08-28-2007, 10:54 AM
Where do people get this idea that Reagan was not conservative?

I mean, if that isn't evidence of the media's power to influence people and rewrite history in their minds, I don't know what is.

:shake: It's indeed perplexing.

BucEyedPea
08-28-2007, 11:02 AM
:shake: It's indeed perplexing.
Well, you've more or less have said the same thing pat....when you call his administration totally neo-conservative...when he had some nc's but also paleo-cons as well. Bush has no paleo-cons.

I don't have time to dig up your posts on this, I have a number of fires to put out today, ( that time of year). I know you know deep down in that paesano head of yours that you've said as much.

patteeu
08-28-2007, 11:04 AM
In that vein, Reagan is a leftist compared to the Founding Fathers of our nation. And Paul is like the Founding Fathers....the extremist of their time.
Afterall, it is a relative term and one person's extremist is another's hero. It's a sad day in America when a potential leader is considered and extremist because he does't support imperial adventures but just cloaks it in the rhetoric of national security or interests. At least Paul is the honest one here.


Dick Cheney is another type of extremist. He's not a conservative on foreign policy. He's a hard Wilsonian which is left.

Dick Cheney is what Ronald Reagan would have been if he'd lived in this time, except that Reagan would have smiled more often.

Yes Reagan was a relative leftist compared to Paul on domestic issues, I agree with that. He was much better than most politicians today though.

I, for one, don't want our founding fathers dictating our actions as if their philosophies were carved in stone rather than written on paper* 200+ years ago when we lived in a primarily agrarian, self-sufficient country protected by vast oceans on either side. Now we are interdependent with trading partners around the world and the oceans no longer prevent major threats from reaching our shores or from harming our prosperity by attacking our interests throughout the world. Jefferson advocated a revolution every generation or so. It's time to recognize that neo-isolationism isn't a winning strategy for us in an increasingly globalized world.


--------------
* Don't get me wrong though. I'm in favor of a constitution with a fixed meaning, but I'm also in favor of revising our approach to the world and, when necessary, amending the constitution to allow for it.

BucEyedPea
08-28-2007, 11:08 AM
Again it's not neo-isolationism. It's actually a conservative foreign policy. Saying otherwise is intellectual dishonesty.

Carved in stone? WTF? I'll take paper eventhough you prefer rubber...'er even scissors.

rock, paper, scissors

patteeu
08-28-2007, 11:08 AM
You'd be wagering wrong. Ron Paul is my dream candidate. I line up with him on just about every issue there is.

Are you saying that you'd support Ron Paul even if his view on the war in Iraq mirrored John McCain's or Rudy Guiliani's?

patteeu
08-28-2007, 11:15 AM
Well, you've more or less have said the same thing pat....when you call his administration totally neo-conservative...when he had some nc's but also paleo-cons as well. Bush has no paleo-cons.

I don't have time to dig up your posts on this, I have a number of fires to put out today, ( that time of year). I know you know deep down in that paesano head of yours that you've said as much.

Why would I deny I've said Reagan embraced the same foreign policy as the neocons. If that makes today's life-long conservatives neocons, it surely makes Reagan, who converted from being an FDR liberal, one. But whether he was a neocon himself or whether he simply held the same foreign policy views as the neocons, he was still a conservative.

This is nothing more than a continuation of your misunderstanding of conservatism and it's various subcategories.

BucEyedPea
08-28-2007, 11:24 AM
This is the same 'ole same ole repetitive debate, pat.
So from now on, when it repeats I'm just gonna use a pic which is worth a thousand words. It will save me much time and you can check my archives.
But Cheney is the quintessential empire builder clothed in patriotic rhetoric.

Taco John
08-28-2007, 11:32 AM
Are you saying that you'd support Ron Paul even if his view on the war in Iraq mirrored John McCain's or Rudy Guiliani's?



If Ron Paul's view on the Iraq war mirrored John McCain and Rudy Guiliani, then his principles would have to be radically different than they are right now, and thus we wouldn't line up.

It would be inconsistent for Ron Paul to be both pro-liberty and pro-Iraq war.

StcChief
08-28-2007, 12:03 PM
There were many people who felt Reagan was extreme and would even start a war. But he didn't.
Our Founders were considered extremists and nuts too.

The only reason Ron seems extreme is because Pubs, Dems and yes moderates too have shifted left. The center today is now on the left side of the spectrum.

Obviously, you can't add anything to a discussion except for calling someone a nut. You've run away from the American Revolution's idea of limited govt that lets more individuals be their own sovereigns.

I've moved left, but still right of center.

The entitlement, gov't support me crowd is continuing to making America
far from what it started as with American Revolution.

patteeu
08-28-2007, 12:07 PM
If Ron Paul's view on the Iraq war mirrored John McCain and Rudy Guiliani, then his principles would have to be radically different than they are right now, and thus we wouldn't line up.

It would be inconsistent for Ron Paul to be both pro-liberty and pro-Iraq war.

Of course, that's nonsense, but I accept that you believe it.

That's what I thought, which makes you wrong about Cochise's post #9. You said he was wrong when he imagined that you and BEP wouldn't support Paul if his views on Iraq were in line with the rest of the Republicans, but he wasn't. I assume you misread it.

patteeu
08-28-2007, 12:08 PM
This is the same 'ole same ole repetitive debate, pat.
So from now on, when it repeats I'm just gonna use a pic which is worth a thousand words. It will save me much time and you can check my archives.
But Cheney is the quintessential empire builder clothed in patriotic rhetoric.

I've addressed your picture condemning a strong Uncle Sam in another thread. ;)

Taco John
08-28-2007, 12:10 PM
That's what I thought, which makes you wrong about Cochise's post #9. You said he was wrong when he imagined that you and BEP wouldn't support Paul if his views on Iraq were in line with the rest of the Republicans, but he wasn't. I assume you misread it.



You're right, I misread it. I couldn't support a candidate in favor of continuing the investment of American defeat in Iraq. I'm never in favor of throwing good money at bad money.

However, I could and do agree with several of those candidates on domestic issues... I just don't believe that they are anything more than talk on most of those issues though.

BucEyedPea
08-28-2007, 12:11 PM
I noticed.

Just the same. Gonna use it like a sig, wherever appropriate.
Once, again, I'm not opposed to a strong Uncle Sam. I am against Empire and bemoan the losing of our Republican form of govt.

Taco John
08-28-2007, 12:16 PM
I noticed.

Just the same. Gonna use it like a sig, wherever appropriate.
Once, again, I'm not opposed to a strong Uncle Sam. I am against Empire and bemoan the losing of our Republican form of govt.



He needs to be crushing a National Guardsman's neck (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20070827/national-guard-at-war/), with an illegal alien and an Al Queda member running quietly behind him (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1519110/posts).

gblowfish
08-28-2007, 02:39 PM
All these "Christians" might want to check out the recent track record of Republican representation.


I'm just sayin....

http://tinyurl.com/23zbxx

MahiMike
08-28-2007, 08:20 PM
I love how a conservative can consistently get fooled and still keep coming back for more. Bush faked you all out on a slick 'morals' campaign, brought our country to our knees and you're still talking about how virtues are important. manoman.