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Ari Chi3fs
08-28-2007, 09:41 PM
That shit still pisses me off.

**** you practice squad gankin, cock suckin, Colts and Herms butt buddy Tony Dungy.


Grrrr.

I just remembered why our OLINE sucks.

Tait and Lilja would be nice to have right about now.

Deberg_1990
08-28-2007, 09:44 PM
Geez, get over it...

Lilja, who would have known??

Tait, wanted too much money.

Phobia
08-28-2007, 09:44 PM
Geez, get over it...

Lilja, who would have known??

Tait, wanted too much money.

Not only that, but Tait's poison pill was impossible to meet.

DeezNutz
08-28-2007, 09:47 PM
Not only that, but Tait's poison pill was impossible to meet.

Yeah, I remember this being the case, too. But I can't recall the specifics about it. Do you (or anyone else)? How badly did Tait and co. put the screws to the Chefs on the way out of town?

Ari Chi3fs
08-28-2007, 09:49 PM
Tait has a douche agent.

Well, the Chiefs were plentiful in OL back then... but man... Lilja?

Deberg_1990
08-28-2007, 09:51 PM
I like how everyone just expects the Chiefs to have the best line in football every year. We had a nice decade run (at least) of always having a good solid line. The Chiefs missed their window of oppurtunity. I think what we are seeing now is just time catching up with the Chiefs. I dont like it, but sh*t happens..

SLAG
08-28-2007, 09:57 PM
Too bad we let Samkon Gado go too.. he could have been the bait during the lj hold ot

SNR
08-28-2007, 10:21 PM
What pisses me off is who we had at backup guard at the time. Darnell Alford? Did the coaches honestly think Alford was better than Lilja at the time and more deserving of a roster spot? :shake:

Coach
08-28-2007, 10:23 PM
What pisses me off is who we had at backup guard at the time. Darnell Alford? Did the coaches honestly think Alford was better than Lilja at the time and more deserving of a roster spot? :shake:

Actually, IIRC, it was Chris Bober....

SNR
08-28-2007, 10:33 PM
Actually, IIRC, it was Chris Bober....Doubt it. Lilja was in one of Vermeil's first years here. Bober was a free agent during the 2004 season... the year Vermeil said, "Nah, no free agent talent is necessary. Bartee and co. are just fine." Then we signed Bober just as a slap in the face... like leaving a ten cent tip for a waitress at a fancy restaurant.

kcchiefsus
08-28-2007, 10:35 PM
Not only that, but Tait's poison pill was impossible to meet.

If we had franchise tagged him instead of putting the transition tag on him the Bears never would have been able to do the poison pill. The Chiefs were being cheap.

ChiefsCountry
08-28-2007, 10:36 PM
If we had franchise tagged him instead of putting the transition tag on him the Bears never would have been able to do the poison pill. The Chiefs were being cheap.

Tait didnt want to be here anyways.

kcchiefsus
08-28-2007, 10:38 PM
Well, we can possibly correct our mistake this coming offseason. Lilja will be a free agent, along with a plethora of other offensive linemen.

OT Max Starks
OG Justin Smiley
OT Travelle Wharton
OT Jordan Gross
OG Ryan Lilja
OT Sean Locklear
OG Floyd Womack
OG Alan Faneca
OT Maurice Williams
OT Flozell Adams

KCChiefsMan
08-28-2007, 10:42 PM
f**king Joe Horn

Coach
08-28-2007, 10:43 PM
Doubt it. Lilja was in one of Vermeil's first years here. Bober was a free agent during the 2004 season... the year Vermeil said, "Nah, no free agent talent is necessary. Bartee and co. are just fine." Then we signed Bober just as a slap in the face... like leaving a ten cent tip for a waitress at a fancy restaurant.

No, Bober was the backup Center and Guard at the time, and the Chiefs wouldn't move Bober for Lilja.

Vermeil tried to sneak him in the PS, but the Colts caught us, again.

ChiefsCountry
08-28-2007, 10:48 PM
Well, we can possibly correct our mistake this coming offseason. Lilja will be a free agent, along with a plethora of other offensive linemen.

OT Max Starks
OG Justin Smiley
OT Travelle Wharton
OT Jordan Gross
OG Ryan Lilja
OT Sean Locklear
OG Floyd Womack
OG Alan Faneca
OT Maurice Williams
OT Flozell Adams

Umm it also a very deep draft for OT this coming season.

SNR
08-28-2007, 10:52 PM
Umm it also a very deep draft for OT this coming season.We need all the help we can get. I'll take a free agent OR a rookie.

SNR
08-28-2007, 10:53 PM
No, Bober was the backup Center and Guard at the time, and the Chiefs wouldn't move Bober for Lilja.

Vermeil tried to sneak him in the PS, but the Colts caught us, again.Just looked on nfl.com. You were right, my bad.

I think that pisses me off even more that we kept that sack of shit Bober instead of Lilja.

kcchiefsus
08-28-2007, 10:53 PM
We need all the help we can get. I'll take a free agent OR a rookie.

Both. IMO we need to sign a couple of free agent linemen for both depth and for another starter and we also need to use our first round pick on a left tackle.

Another center would be great in the draft also considering Wiegmann's contract is up next year. Niswanger will likely start and should do alot better than Wiegmann but we still need depth.

Coach
08-28-2007, 10:54 PM
Just looked on nfl.com. You were right, my bad.

I think that pisses me off even more that we kept that sack of shit Bober instead of Lilja.

Yeah, and we wonder why we continue to suck medicore year in and year out.

SNR
08-28-2007, 11:02 PM
Both. IMO we need to sign a couple of free agent linemen for both depth and for another starter and we also need to use our first round pick on a left tackle.

Another center would be great in the draft also considering Wiegmann's contract is up next year. Niswanger will likely start and should do alot better than Wiegmann but we still need depth.If we want a reconstructed Oline, this is probably one easier way to do it. Open competition in training camp and all that.

Normally I'd make some pessimistic comment about how this is the exact route we WON'T take, but I have a feeling that will change next year. Herm wanted to give all those projects we've collected over the years a chance to make plays in the preseason. Almost all of them have failed miserably, and one of them has already been shown the door in the first round of cuts (Sampson). In fact, the guy who's been looking the best is Herb Taylor, and he's a rookie we're trying out at both guard AND right tackle, with no one position defined for him yet.

If McIntosh does well, let's keep him around, but we should still get a whole new batch of guys in next year. I think we should expect a new starter at RT and possibly C, and Chris Terry, Kyle Turley, Will Svitek, and Chris Bober should all be cut at some point next year. Get rid of the old farts, remove the cancer cells, and get some fresh young talent up front.

ChiefsCountry
08-28-2007, 11:10 PM
You also have to think that Taylor and Stallings could develop into good lineman as well. I'm thinking Taylor will.

SNR
08-28-2007, 11:13 PM
You also have to think that Taylor and Stallings could develop into good lineman as well. I'm thinking Taylor will.Oh, absolutely. Taylor, Niswanger, and Stallings all deserve extra time/more training camps to prove themselves.

Ari Chi3fs
08-28-2007, 11:47 PM
f**king Joe Horn

Yeah, no shit. Although, it would have altered history... Joe wouldn't have ****ed Willie Roaf's wife, since Joe would have stayed in KC, and Willie would have never came to KC, due to not wanting to be on the same team as Joe Horn.

DaneMcCloud
08-29-2007, 12:36 AM
You also have to think that Taylor and Stallings could develop into good lineman as well. I'm thinking Taylor will.

Why? They're both 6th round draft choices. Why would you "expect" them to even make the team? Is this indicative of the overall talent level of the Chiefs offensive lineman?

IMO, the Chiefs need to draft at least two highly rated offensive lineman in 2008 and supplement the O-line with free agents. The O-line needs a major overhaul and it's ridiculous to count on people such as Stallings and Taylor (much like Sampson & Svitek in recent years) as starters.

TinyEvel
08-29-2007, 12:41 AM
Why? They're both 6th round draft choices. Why would you "expect" them to even make the team? Is this indicative of the overall talent level of the Chiefs offensive lineman?

IMO, the Chiefs need to draft at least two highly rated offensive lineman in 2008 and supplement the O-line with free agents. The O-line needs a major overhaul and it's ridiculous to count on people such as Stallings and Taylor (much like Sampson & Svitek in recent years) as starters.


Okay, Dane. How much is Nick paying you?

ChiefsCountry
08-29-2007, 12:54 AM
Why? They're both 6th round draft choices. Why would you "expect" them to even make the team? Is this indicative of the overall talent level of the Chiefs offensive lineman?

IMO, the Chiefs need to draft at least two highly rated offensive lineman in 2008 and supplement the O-line with free agents. The O-line needs a major overhaul and it's ridiculous to count on people such as Stallings and Taylor (much like Sampson & Svitek in recent years) as starters.

At Guard? I can see tackles spending high first round picks on but not guard.

DaneMcCloud
08-29-2007, 01:05 AM
Okay, Dane. How much is Nick paying you?

$520.00. I asked for more than Phobia because I'm worth it.

DaneMcCloud
08-29-2007, 01:09 AM
At Guard? I can see tackles spending high first round picks on but not guard.

Okay, if you want to get specific, a first rounder on a left tackle (if available, and I have a sneaking feeling we'll have our pick of the litter) and a late second, early third on a right tackle or left guard.

blueballs
08-29-2007, 01:10 AM
I bet Ryan is just fine with the ring

DaneMcCloud
08-29-2007, 01:14 AM
I bet Ryan is just fine with the ring

Little brown ring, little brown ring...

huskerdooz
08-29-2007, 01:34 AM
Okay, if you want to get specific, a first rounder on a left tackle (if available, and I have a sneaking feeling we'll have our pick of the litter) and a late second, early third on a right tackle or left guard.

I'd rather we spent that 1st rnd pick on Jeff Brohm QB Louisville.

DaneMcCloud
08-29-2007, 01:45 AM
I'd rather we spent that 1st rnd pick on Jeff Brohm QB Louisville.

Unless the Chiefs record is 2-14, that's not gonna happen.

Jamie
08-29-2007, 02:38 AM
No, Bober was the backup Center and Guard at the time, and the Chiefs wouldn't move Bober for Lilja.

Vermeil tried to sneak him in the PS, but the Colts caught us, again.

Bober at least made sense, the one that got me was that they kept Jeremy Parquet. I've always assumed it was a case of the front office keeping the guy they drafted; I remember Vermiel saying on TV during that preseason that Lilja would make the team.

TEX
08-29-2007, 06:25 AM
I'd rather we spent that 1st rnd pick on Jeff Brohm QB Louisville.

But...but...but...what about Brodie? :rolleyes:

the Talking Can
08-29-2007, 06:26 AM
putting Lilja on practice squad was an epic bad move...I remember (i think) that Lilja was getting lots of love from the coaches then played bad in the final preseason game, causing them to think they could/should put him on practice squad....the Colts waited .000000000001 seconds to grab him....and DV had that stupid look trying to explain it...

that's the kind of stuff that most TV people never pay attention to but that really effects a team over the long term...we drafted the guy, and gave him away

Chiefnj2
08-29-2007, 06:30 AM
Even if they kept Lilja three years ago he would have been behind Waters and Shields and probably would have bolted and signed elsewhere before this year.

penguinz
08-29-2007, 06:33 AM
I like how everyone is saying we must draft early round players for the O-line while at the same time bitching about how we should have kept an undrafted O-Guard. Early round may be necessary for the Tackles but guard and center it is not.

Chiefnj2
08-29-2007, 07:35 AM
I like how everyone is saying we must draft early round players for the O-line while at the same time bitching about how we should have kept an undrafted O-Guard. Early round may be necessary for the Tackles but guard and center it is not.

It may not be necessary, but I'm pretty sure the success rate is extremely high for centers and guards taken in the 1st two rounds. In the end is it better to take a QB where the success rate is 35%, a WR at 40%, a DT at 45% or a C or G at 85%??

DaneMcCloud
08-29-2007, 10:17 AM
Geez, get over it...

Lilja, who would have known??

This move is a MAJOR source of frustration for me (it can be found using the search function).

Who SHOULD have known? Well, how about for starters, Dick Vermeil! That sorry excuse for a coach was paid $3.5 MILLION dollars per year. His coaching staff, at one point the largest in the league, SHOULD HAVE KNOWN.

That's what these people supposedly do for a living and what they're paid to do. Evaluate talent and make decisions best suited for their football team.

All Vermeil did was insure that he and his cronies could ride off into the sunset as wealthy old men.

Oh yeah, and whiff on players like Ryan Lilja.

penguinz
08-29-2007, 10:27 AM
Oh yeah, and whiff on players like Ryan Lilja.So did 30 other teams. he was undrafted!

Huffman83
08-29-2007, 10:32 AM
f**king Joe Horn

Victim of Martyball. The Chiefs taught him how to run routes basically. Then he goes to a pass oriented offense (which would have been nice for the Vermeil years.) and dominated.

DaneMcCloud
08-29-2007, 10:40 AM
So did 30 other teams. he was undrafted!

But 31 other teams didn't have him in OTA's, training camp and four preseason games. Not to mention the fact that he played football just up the road at K-State.

Thanks for playing.

htismaqe
08-29-2007, 10:41 AM
The Lilja situation goes back to something I've been saying for at least 3 years. Sampson getting cut and watching Will Svitek SUCK ASS just reinforces it.

DV, Al Saunders, and Mike Solari have largely been heralded as gurus for the offensive line they put together here in KC. Who exactly did they "discover" or "develop"?

Seems to me they took the risk on an injured Willie Roaf, knowing full well what he was capable of if healthy. They were handed Will Shields, and Casey Wiegmann was a GOOD center in Chicago, he just wasn't AS GOOD as Olin Kreutz.

Do they get credit for Brian Waters? Sure, I guess. But then they should also get the blame for the gaping hole we've had at RT for the entire time they were here.

Huffman83
08-29-2007, 10:42 AM
Honestly I bet getting cut was what put the fire under his ass.

DaneMcCloud
08-29-2007, 10:45 AM
Honestly I bet getting cut was what put the fire under his ass.

Yeah, right. As if being booted out of Shawnee Mission Northwest during his junior season wasn't enough (he violated a rule that said he wouldn't drink beer, missing his senior season). The only school that even offered him a chance to play football was K-State because he missed his senior year in high school. Or going undrafted.

Yeah, being cut from the Chiefs was the the fire he needed. :rolleyes:

Chiefnj2
08-29-2007, 10:48 AM
The Lilja situation goes back to something I've been saying for at least 3 years. Sampson getting cut and watching Will Svitek SUCK ASS just reinforces it.

DV, Al Saunders, and Mike Solari have largely been heralded as gurus for the offensive line they put together here in KC. Who exactly did they "discover" or "develop"?

Seems to me they took the risk on an injured Willie Roaf, knowing full well what he was capable of if healthy. They were handed Will Shields, and Casey Wiegmann was a GOOD center in Chicago, he just wasn't AS GOOD as Olin Kreutz.

Do they get credit for Brian Waters? Sure, I guess. But then they should also get the blame for the gaping hole we've had at RT for the entire time they were here.

I wouldn't say Welbourn was a gaping hole. He wasn't Black.

But, you are correct they did not develop the late round draft picks. That's why it's funny that Solari gets promoted and the WR coach keeps his job while someone like Terry Shea gets canned.

DaneMcCloud
08-29-2007, 10:49 AM
I wouldn't say Welbourn was a gaping hole. He wasn't Black.

But, you are correct they did not develop the late round draft picks. That's why it's funny that Solari gets promoted and the WR coach keeps his job while someone like Terry Shea gets canned.

Who did Terry Shea develop?

htismaqe
08-29-2007, 10:51 AM
I wouldn't say Welbourn was a gaping hole. He wasn't Black.

But, you are correct they did not develop the late round draft picks. That's why it's funny that Solari gets promoted and the WR coach keeps his job while someone like Terry Shea gets canned.

Welbourn was respectable, but he also couldn't man the sport PERMANENTLY, which I put on the coaching staff.

Way too much shuffling...

Chiefnj2
08-29-2007, 10:52 AM
Who did Terry Shea develop?

I'm willing to give Shea credit for Green's performance in KC and for Huard's performance last year in relief.

Chiefnj2
08-29-2007, 10:53 AM
Welbourn was respectable, but he also couldn't man the sport PERMANENTLY, which I put on the coaching staff.

Way too much shuffling...

I believe Welbourn's problem was not shuffling but rather injecting.

htismaqe
08-29-2007, 10:53 AM
I'm willing to give Shea credit for Green's performance in KC and for Huard's performance last year in relief.

We don't need Shea. We have Dick Curl.

DaneMcCloud
08-29-2007, 10:56 AM
I'm willing to give Shea credit for Green's performance in KC and for Huard's performance last year in relief.

That's very nice of you.

I'm betting that Cam Cameron, Mike Martz, Norv Turner and Dick Vermeil have far more to do with Trent Green than does Terry Shea.

I think that Damon Huard's nine years of NFL experience before landing in KC has a lot more to do with his coaching and mentoring from players such as Marino, Tom Brady and Jimmy Johnson than Terry Shea.

Let's see what Terry Shea does with Cleo Lemon before giving him any props. Jonathon Quinn, James Killian and Casey Printers are more likely to be indicative of Shea's talents than Green or Huard.

Oh yeah, and Chicago's offense sucked under Shea. One and done.

Rex Grossman, anyone?

Chiefnj2
08-29-2007, 11:02 AM
Let's see what Terry Shea does with Cleo Lemon before giving him any props. Jonathon Quinn, James Killian and Casey Printers are more likely to be indicative of Shea's talents than Green or Huard.

Oh yeah, and Chicago's offense sucked under Shea. One and done.

Rex Grossman, anyone?

Green didn't seem to take Shea's release too well. Maybe he had a bigger impact on Green than you think.

Lemon and the 3rd string Miami QB are doing very well in preseason. Much better than KC's starters.

One year isn't enough for an OC. Look at Saunders and Vermeil their first year.

But hey, KC has Dick Curl, all will be well.

Deberg_1990
08-29-2007, 11:03 AM
We have Dick Curl.

Known as the "Mad Bomber" in NFL Europe circles for his tendancy to throw the ball. hahahah


I didnt realize he had worked for the Chiefs previously in 00-02?

http://www.kcchiefs.com/coach/dick_curl/

go bowe
08-29-2007, 11:16 AM
Okay, if you want to get specific, a first rounder on a left tackle (if available, and I have a sneaking feeling we'll have our pick of the litter) and a late second, early third on a right tackle or left guard.left guard?

are you thinking of trading or releasing brian waters??

him and casey are the only ones left from that o-line, which was quite possibly the best o-line we've ever had...

and i think herm wants to get rid of casey in favor of a bigger guy so larry will have more ass to run into...

DaneMcCloud
08-29-2007, 11:27 AM
left guard?

are you thinking of trading or releasing brian waters??

him and casey are the only ones left from that o-line, which was quite possibly the best o-line we've ever had...

and i think herm wants to get rid of casey in favor of a bigger guy so larry will have more ass to run into...

Brian Waters will be 31 during the 2008 season. I'd say that next year's draft would be a good time to find a replacement. I hope the Chiefs don't wait until he retires to have a competent player ready to start.

htismaqe
08-29-2007, 11:32 AM
Brian Waters will be 31 during the 2008 season. I'd say that next year's draft would be a good time to find a replacement.

That's what a good team would do, yes. But we have far too many GAPING holes in our roster to start drafting proactively.

I hope the Chiefs don't wait until he retires to have a competent player ready to start.

Why break with tradition?

kcchiefsus
08-29-2007, 11:41 AM
I'd rather we spent that 1st rnd pick on Jeff Brohm QB Louisville.

What's the point of a first round QB if we have nobody to protect him? I guarantee Croyle would have looked better the other night if we had even a halfway decent offensive line.

kcchiefsus
08-29-2007, 11:42 AM
Oh, absolutely. Taylor, Niswanger, and Stallings all deserve extra time/more training camps to prove themselves.

In fact, I can't believe Niswanger hasn't been given a chance to take over as the starter for Wiegmann yet. Wiegmann is such a huge liability at center that a bigger guy like Niswanger would have to do better.

DaneMcCloud
08-29-2007, 11:47 AM
Green didn't seem to take Shea's release too well. Maybe he had a bigger impact on Green than you think.

:deevee:

With all due respect to NewPhin and his family, I lost a major amount of respect for TG in this offseason. IMO, he acted like a cry-baby pussy. He should have acted like a team player instead of a greedy, me-first type of guy. But he's gone. And I for one, am glad.

Lemon and the 3rd string Miami QB are doing very well in preseason. Much better than KC's starters.

Good for them. If that's the case, I hardly doubt it's because of a few months of Terry Shea's tutledge. If that were really the case, why wouldn't Shea have higher profile career?

One year isn't enough for an OC. Look at Saunders and Vermeil their first year.

Uhhhhhhhhh?

But hey, KC has Dick Curl, all will be well.

Never underestimate the ability of THE Dick Curl.

Frosty
08-29-2007, 11:47 AM
What's the point of a first round QB if we have nobody to protect him?

Or play him.

DaneMcCloud
08-29-2007, 11:48 AM
In fact, I can't believe Niswanger hasn't been given a chance to take over as the starter for Wiegmann yet. Wiegmann is such a huge liability at center that a bigger guy like Niswanger would have to do better.

Uh, maybe because Niswanger is actually NisWanker. He was a 6th round pick. How many 6th rounders are anchoring NFL offensive lines?

ChiefsCountry
08-29-2007, 11:59 AM
Uh, maybe because Niswanger is actually NisWanker. He was a 6th round pick. How many 6th rounders are anchoring NFL offensive lines?

Actually he was undrafted.

Chiefnj2
08-29-2007, 12:08 PM
:deevee:

With all due respect to NewPhin and his family, I lost a major amount of respect for TG in this offseason. IMO, he acted like a cry-baby pussy. He should have acted like a team player instead of a greedy, me-first type of guy. But he's gone. And I for one, am glad.

Good for them. If that's the case, I hardly doubt it's because of a few months of Terry Shea's tutledge. If that were really the case, why wouldn't Shea have higher profile career?

Uhhhhhhhhh?

Never underestimate the ability of THE Dick Curl.

So Shea gets no credit when players he is coaching perform well, but he gets all the blame for the Bears offense in the 1 year he was the coordinator. I get it. Green was smart enough to see the mess of an O in KC and get out and get paid handsomely doing so. I'm sure he's upset you feel he is a greedy wuss; I hope he can get over it.

DaneMcCloud
08-29-2007, 12:50 PM
So Shea gets no credit when players he is coaching perform well, but he gets all the blame for the Bears offense in the 1 year he was the coordinator. I get it. Green was smart enough to see the mess of an O in KC and get out and get paid handsomely doing so. I'm sure he's upset you feel he is a greedy wuss; I hope he can get over it.

So Shea should get the blame for Trent Green's 24 Int's in 2001 right?

You also know that Trent Green had his best season with the Chiefs in 2004 when he had a QB Rating of 95.2 and passed for over 4,400 yards, right?

Who was the QB coach then? Oh, that's right. Not Terry Shea.

DaneMcCloud
08-29-2007, 12:52 PM
Actually he was undrafted.

Awesome! Just perfect. :rolleyes:

I had him confused with the other future HOF 6th round draft choices.