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View Full Version : I'm not sure about the Drummond acquisition.


Direckshun
08-29-2007, 12:20 PM
I'd feel a lot better if Drummond was productive on the field outside of just special teams, but he's not. He provides a good returner in both aspects (kick and punt), but that's it.

It'd be hard to imagine anybody doing a better job of returning punts this preseason than Justin Phinisee. Randolph has done quite well, but Phinisee has just been electric just about every single time. He's averaging double-digits in return yards, which is sick. And again, Randolph's done quite good as well.

Meanwhile, nobody's looked good returning kickoffs. But you'd have to assume that either kid could learn.

But neither of these young guys contribute to the field either, so if you're going to keep a player that can't contribute outside of returning, why keep an injured vet that'll last us three-four years when we could have a good young buck that could last us eight to ten? We're rebuilding.

Just a thought. Maybe it's the fact that neither's looked good returning kickoffs that we acquired Drummond.

luv
08-29-2007, 12:22 PM
Stupid question time.

What the difference in returning a punt vs returning a kickoff?

htismaqe
08-29-2007, 12:24 PM
Phinisee was in on 5 or 6 tackles playing with the starters against the Saints.

I would have rather gone with him.

Direckshun
08-29-2007, 12:25 PM
Stupid question time.

What the difference in returning a punt vs returning a kickoff?
You're catching the balls at different angles, and on punts you often have to accelerate from a stand-still rather than kickoffs, where you're already moving forward by the time the other team gets to you.

Direckshun
08-29-2007, 12:25 PM
Phinisee was in on 5 or 6 tackles playing with the starters against the Saints.

I would have rather gone with him.
Well... maybe it's not a foregone conclusion...

boogblaster
08-29-2007, 12:28 PM
catch the ball run behind blockers cut if u have too..its really a simple technic ...

RustShack
08-29-2007, 12:29 PM
We could always keep one on the PS and if Drummond gets hurt bring them up, which most likely will happen (Keeping one or even both on the PS, not Drummond getting hurt). Its not like Drummond is 35, hes still in his mid 20's.

Deberg_1990
08-29-2007, 12:29 PM
I'd feel a lot better if Drummond was productive on the field outside of just special teams, but he's not. He provides a good returner in both aspects (kick and punt), but that's it.



I would guess the majority of punt return/kick return guys in the NFL are specialists and thats all they do for the most part.

Even Dante Hall was like this mostly. Heck, most people on here wanted him to be a Kick/punt return specialist full time.

talastan
08-29-2007, 12:30 PM
I think this is a great idea. A vet that our young guys and learn under and get some time to learn the tricks of the trade. I always thought that the Chiefs should have done the same thing with Dante Hall when he was still here. Just used him for return duties only. That way he could go 100% everytime. (Of course that could be 100% in the wrong direction...):hmmm:

Micjones
08-29-2007, 12:31 PM
Drummond's an upgrade over what we have currently.
We're only carrying 5 WR's so he's not exactly hurting the roster.

Chiefnj2
08-29-2007, 12:31 PM
People are stubborn.

Herm 101 - what is the safest conservative move I can make?*

Ask that question for every personnel move. Drummond - veteran, less likely to make a mistake like muffing a kick or fumbling. He's a known entity and is a good returner.

Rookie - could be good, could be bad. There is some uncertainty.

Therein you shall find your answer.

* = As a former DB when Herm does go against his ultraconservative persona it almost always involves decisions regarding DB's. He can relate to an unheralded young DB because he was one.

RustShack
08-29-2007, 12:32 PM
Hall was a really good KR/PR for us, then we also started using him as a receiver and his KR/PR stats went down. He wasn't a good receiver and should have been left as a returner. We should leave Drummond only at KR/PR also.

tooge
08-29-2007, 12:32 PM
You're catching the balls at different angles, and on punts you often have to accelerate from a stand-still rather than kickoffs, where you're already moving forward by the time the other team gets to you.

Heh, heh, catching balls at different angles.

htismaqe
08-29-2007, 12:32 PM
People are stubborn.

Herm 101 - what is the safest conservative move I can make?*

Ask that question for every personnel move. Drummond - veteran, less likely to make a mistake like muffing a kick or fumbling. He's a known entity and is a good returner.

Rookie - could be good, could be bad. There is some uncertainty.

Therein you shall find your answer.

* = As a former DB when Herm does go against his ultraconservative persona it almost always involves decisions regarding DB's. He can relate to an unheralded young DB because he was one.

Yep.

Direckshun
08-29-2007, 12:33 PM
I would guess the majority of punt return/kick return guys in the NFL are specialists and thats all they do for the most part.

Even Dante Hall was like this mostly. Heck, most people on here wanted him to be a Kick/punt return specialist full time.
That's not really my concern.

The three candidates for returners we have now don't contibute on the field outside of returning. If one of them did, that'd tilt the scales but that's not the case.

So essentially we're deciding between a proven, but injured vet and two young guys, one of which I believe has a massive upside as a returner.

Hydrae
08-29-2007, 12:33 PM
Stupid question time.

What the difference in returning a punt vs returning a kickoff?


When you catch a punt, the other team is in your face while with a kickoff you have time to catch the ball, check out the field, then head up field.

Extra Point
08-29-2007, 12:33 PM
On punt returns, you usually have two players (chasers) downfield before the ball is kicked. The blocking schemes are different; you usually don't have a wedge on punt returns, vs. kickoffs. The returner generally has more time on KO returns to catch and run with the ball; the ball's kicked deeper.

alpha_omega
08-29-2007, 12:37 PM
Drummond has NFL game experience. I see that as a plus over the other two candidates.

Given that....i am fine with it.

Micjones
08-29-2007, 12:40 PM
Herm gave the young guys plenty of opportunity.

htismaqe
08-29-2007, 12:42 PM
Herm gave the young guys plenty of opportunity.

And they did well. Phinisee did BETTER than well, and he didn't muff a kick either.

Sorry but that argument doesn't hold water in this case.

ChiefsCountry
08-29-2007, 03:28 PM
Stupid question time.

What the difference in returning a punt vs returning a kickoff?

Takes more balls to return a punt.

patteeu
08-29-2007, 03:39 PM
Maybe I just haven't been watching closely enough to notice Phinisee's electric returns (and I did have to listen to the first game on the radio so I haven't seen them all), but I haven't seen anything that makes me think any of the young guys are likely to be worth having around for eight to ten years. Even Dante Hall wore out his welcome much quicker than that and he had a lot of laurels to rest on. If we had a young guy who looked like a phenom or who could play another position in the field besides returning kicks then it would make sense to take a flyer on them. But if not, we can always take another shot on some new guys again next season and in the meantime ride a low cost vet who we already know will at least be serviceable.

StcChief
08-29-2007, 03:42 PM
Drummond Vet with NFL experience 1 year deal. Plenty of upside for Chiefs

Upside for Drummond? He has to impress here to re-up contract or maybe a Trade option in off season either way. The fact the Millen released him doesn't mean Carl will.

DaneMcCloud
08-29-2007, 03:43 PM
Yeah, this was a bad move signing Drummond to return kicks and punts for ONE YEAR.

All the guy has done in the league is go to the Pro Bowl and lead the league in returns for touchdowns.

I think it would be in the Chiefs best interests to cut him immediately and promote Boomer Grigsby to kickoff and punt returns.

That makes about as much sense as 95% of the threads and posts in the past 5 days.

htismaqe
08-29-2007, 03:50 PM
Yeah, this was a bad move signing Drummond to return kicks and punts for ONE YEAR.

All the guy has done in the league is go to the Pro Bowl and lead the league in returns for touchdowns.

I think it would be in the Chiefs best interests to cut him immediately and promote Boomer Grigsby to kickoff and punt returns.

That makes about as much sense as 95% of the threads and posts in the past 5 days.

It's not a BAD move.

But it is the kind of move one would expect from a team that wholeheartedly subscribes to the "bandaid" approach.

The Bad Guy
08-29-2007, 03:54 PM
It's not a BAD move.

But it is the kind of move one would expect from a team that wholeheartedly subscribes to the "bandaid" approach.

We are talking about a returner that's 27. He's not 35 on his way out. He can be this team's returner for the next 3-4 years if he pans out this year.

The corner can still make this team. It's not like they are 10 deep at corner.

I really don't see any downside in this move.

SNR
08-29-2007, 04:18 PM
Good Lord.

A kick returner isn't a QB for crying out loud. Getting a veteran to "groom" a kick returner like a veteran QB would "groom" a young QB is bullshit. Either the kick returner has great speed, some nifty moves, and can catch the ball in a high pressure situation with 250 lb wrecking balls breathing down his neck, or he does not.

Much like Hall in his earlier career who had to make the team as a WR before a returner, Phinisee will have to do the same. He's talented, but he's not ****ing Devin Hester by any means. If he's on his way out because he couldn't crack the 5-CB lineup, then we need to put another guy out on the field.

Drummond is experienced, and is a much better returner than Phinisee. He's not old by any means. Hell, if 27 is old, then I'll be riding around town on a Rascal scooter and taking sponge baths after this upcoming Saturday. Not only does he return kicks, but he's also an experienced gunner on special teams, which is extremely valuable. I also think he has a better shot at cracking the lineup at WR than Phinisee does at cracking the lineup at CB during a regular season game.

Fact is we got a better player for the job who is more versatile, and only a few years older than Phinisee. There's absolutely no reason to bitch about this move. End of story.

Micjones
08-29-2007, 04:20 PM
And they did well. Phinisee did BETTER than well, and he didn't muff a kick either.

You do realize that Drummond is younger than Larry Johnson don't you?

Sorry but that argument doesn't hold water in this case.

Justin Phinisee has averaged 3.7 yards per carry on Punt Returns.
Justin Phinisee has averaged 33.0 yards per carry on Kick Returns.

Ean Randolph has averaged 9.6 yards per carry on Punt Returns.
Ean Randolph has averaged 27.5 yards per carry on Kick Returns.

Randolph has been a more complete returnman thus far.
I personally wanted him to win the job. He looked pretty solid in limited opportunities offensively as well... He would've been a great choice to lock up that 5th Receiver spot.

Mind you that's only through a handful of opportunities though.

Drummond has a higher career yppr average than both of them.
He averages 23.6 yards per kick return throughout his career.
Add in 6 career return TD's and I can't be mad about this acquisition.

He gives us a great opportunity to consistently good in our return game.

SNR
08-29-2007, 04:21 PM
That reminds me, I hate the word "groom" now. I especially hate people who use the word "groom" inappropriately.

New rule: If you use the word "groom" for any other reason than to talk about personal hygeine or the wedded object of the bride, you will receive negative rep from me.

John_Wayne
08-29-2007, 04:29 PM
Drummond > anyone else on the team

Period

SNR
08-29-2007, 04:31 PM
Drummond > anyone else on the team

PeriodSeriously? Have him line up at RT then!