PDA

View Full Version : TEICHER-Chiefs not overly concerned about possible 0-4 preseason


C-Mac
08-30-2007, 08:28 AM
Chiefs not overly concerned about possible 0-4 preseason
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/253085.html
By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

Herm Edwards said he would like to see the starters be successful in the limited playing time they get tonight.
Five things to watch for in Chiefs game

ST. LOUIS | There will be no sense of urgency for the Chiefs as they conclude their preseason tonight. They will meet the Rams at the Edward Jones Dome, play their starters a series or two — quarterback Damon Huard won’t play at all — and accept the consequences that go along with it.

Those consequences could include a winless preseason and, worse yet, an offense still stuck in neutral.

The Chiefs, of course, could wind up with far bigger problems if they pressed for a win tonight by extending their starters. The last thing they want is to head to Houston for the Sept. 9 regular-season opener missing an injured Larry Johnson or Tony Gonzalez.

In and of itself, an 0-4 exhibition season means nothing. The Chiefs had a winless preseason in 2005 in what would be Dick Vermeil’s final season as head coach. They wound up 10-6 and entered their final game with a chance to make the playoffs.

In fairness to the Chiefs, if Casey Printers hadn’t fumbled near the Cleveland goal line and Miami’s John Beck had been called down before scoring his game-winning two-point conversion, this discussion doesn’t take place.

More alarming to the Chiefs than 0-3, and potentially 0-4, is the way they wound up there.

“I’ve never been in the situation where I’ve had three losses in the preseason as a head coach,” Herm Edwards said. “Now I’ve got to deal with it. So what do you do about it? You try to win the next one and if it doesn’t work out, it doesn’t work out.

“We look at the preseason for one reason and one reason only: To evaluate every player and to give him an opportunity to play. The best way to do that is to simplify things and don’t do a whole lot in the preseason. Can it hurt you at times? Yeah. When other people game-plan you and use all of their stuff, yeah, it can hurt you. So be it. We’ll live with it. That’s how we’ve always done it and that’s how I like to do it.”

The Chiefs clearly haven’t shown a sense of urgency any time during the preseason. Huard also didn’t play in last week’s game against New Orleans and took only 21 preseason snaps.

The Chiefs have also played without some of their key offensive components. Huard’s involvement has been minimal and Johnson and the injured Damion McIntosh haven’t played at all.

Johnson probably will play some tonight, and the Chiefs hope to have McIntosh back next week.

Their opponents haven’t showed any urgency either. The Browns rotated two quarterbacks, failing to let either one get in a rhythm. New Orleans yanked its starters earlier than the Chiefs did theirs last week.

What should be troubling to the Chiefs is that they still have failed to produce much. Their starting offense has been only minimally successful. Their defense was strong against inferior offensive opponents Cleveland and Miami but yielded against the more powerful Saints.

“You can take whatever you want out of the preseason,” Edwards said. “There are some teams that play real good in the preseason, score a lot of points, and then opening day they don’t win. People get really excited about the preseason, but what are you really looking for? You’re watching the first and the third game, basically. Other than that, you’re looking at (backups) play the game.

“A lot of it has to do with who’s the quarterback. If you’ve got a quarterback out there who’s played a lot of football in this league and he’s playing against (backups), you’re probably going to score a lot of points.”
The Chiefs had some of the same problems last year in the preseason and they turned out to be signs of things to come. The Chiefs started slowly in the regular season, scoring 10 points in the opener and three points the following week and losing both games.

“I think it’s just a matter of getting everybody on the same page,” Huard said. “We’ve got Larry Johnson back here. Jason Dunn is healthy, and our offensive line is getting healthy. I think it’s just a matter of working all together, getting plays and going over our game plan that we are going to be using in Houston.”

Edwards would prefer to see the starters, particularly those on offense, have some success in whatever playing time they get tonight.

He’s just not going to expose his key players to injury or open up his playbook to get it.

“You’d like for them to have some success and get something going, but it’s on them to do it,” he said. “They have to make some plays, and that’s what we haven’t done. A lot of it comes because of penalties are bringing them back, but we haven’t made any big plays. We need a spark. You can make a couple of good runs, but you need a 30- or 40-yard pass play or run to get you excited. Hopefully we can do that, but if we don’t, we’ve got 16 games to try and do it. We have to make a big play or two to get them going.”

Bowser
08-30-2007, 08:33 AM
Doomed. Doomed doomed.

Otter
08-30-2007, 08:42 AM
"Doomed" to me implies 1-15, this team isn't doomed. It is however "stuck".

Extra Point
08-30-2007, 08:45 AM
Yeah. Flip-flop from the first pre-season's game-day article. The governor's cup used to mean something, at one time.

Funny, the "game-plan" and "simplify" comments.

We have three plays: LJRL, LJRM. LJRR, and throw the ball away.

mcan
08-30-2007, 09:12 AM
We HAVE more than 3 plays. Unfortunately we don't practice them, so when we run them in the game we look like a high school football team. Recievers go the wrong way, quarterbacks stare them down to make sure they throw to the right spot, and since they're holding onto the ball too long, the offensive line looks like puke.

It's no secret why Dick's offense was a masterpiece... They practiced it for 3 hours a day. They scrutinized every move, every step. They set records with mediocre to moderate talent, by working harder than everybody else.

Baby Lee
08-30-2007, 09:33 AM
The Rams have done squat on O this preseason too.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/rams/story/CDFF30B4D3FB4DAC86257342006000CE?OpenDocument

chagrin
08-30-2007, 09:40 AM
That statement on it's own wouldn't bother me since preseason is what it is, vanilla.

However since we have the most conservative game planning coach in the NFL, I think it has some credibility.

Direckshun
08-30-2007, 09:52 AM
It's no secret why Dick's offense was a masterpiece... They practiced it for 3 hours a day. They scrutinized every move, every step. They set records with mediocre to moderate talent, by working harder than everybody else.
Or maybe because the offense sported two All Pro backs, a Pro Bowl quarterback, four All Pro offensive lineman, and the greatest tight end that's ever played the game.

But yeah, I know, mediocre talent.

morphius
08-30-2007, 09:55 AM
The thing that I find funny is that earlier Herm was talking about how he wanted to win preseason games, now that they have proven that they can't, well, now if isn't a big deal.

Not that it is a big deal, just mildly humorous.

Inspector
08-30-2007, 09:57 AM
Yeah. Flip-flop from the first pre-season's game-day article. The governor's cup used to mean something, at one time.

Funny, the "game-plan" and "simplify" comments.

We have three plays: LJRL, LJRM. LJRR, and throw the ball away.

Oh bull!!!

That's 4 plays.

:)

Chiefnj2
08-30-2007, 09:59 AM
Herm's a motivator. You can bet your ass he's scripting and gameplanning for this game and to get the starters a TD.

htismaqe
08-30-2007, 10:25 AM
Herm sure was fired up before the Saints game about winning.

And after we got embarrassed, it wasn't a big deal.

:hmmm:

mcan
08-30-2007, 10:25 AM
Or maybe because the offense sported two All Pro backs, a Pro Bowl quarterback, four All Pro offensive lineman, and the greatest tight end that's ever played the game.

But yeah, I know, mediocre talent.


Could it be that those players were probowlers because of the success of the offense? Gonzalez is still the best TE in the game, but you wouldn't know it watching this crap. Shields and Roaf were on the downside of their careers. Holmes and Green were pretty good players made to look like GODS in this offense. Johnson is still a stud running back, but his average yards per carry is way down now that Herm is running the show.

You're fooling yourself if you think that Herm's offense is bad because we used to have amazing talent and now we have nobody. Not the case. We have a servicable quarterback, we have a vet center, a pro-bowl calibre guard, two first round draft pick recievers, the best TE in the game, a former pro-bowl right tackle, and one of the best backs in the league. Why do ALL of these guys look so bad so much of the time? Hmmm... Maybe something else stinks around here.

Mr. Laz
08-30-2007, 10:28 AM
Have the chiefs ever been overly concerned with anything but filling the seats?

htismaqe
08-30-2007, 10:31 AM
Could it be that those players were probowlers because of the success of the offense? Gonzalez is still the best TE in the game, but you wouldn't know it watching this crap. Shields and Roaf were on the downside of their careers. Holmes and Green were pretty good players made to look like GODS in this offense. Johnson is still a stud running back, but his average yards per carry is way down now that Herm is running the show.

You're fooling yourself if you think that Herm's offense is bad because we used to have amazing talent and now we have nobody. Not the case. We have a servicable quarterback, we have a vet center, a pro-bowl calibre guard, two first round draft pick recievers, the best TE in the game, a former pro-bowl right tackle, and one of the best backs in the league. Why do ALL of these guys look so bad so much of the time? Hmmm... Maybe something else stinks around here.

Shield and Roaf were probowlers for TEN YEARS before Vermeil got here. Don't ****ing kid yourself, Willie Roaf made the offense go. Without him, they were pedestrian AT BEST. And the stats back it up.

Direckshun
08-30-2007, 10:43 AM
Herm sure was fired up before the Saints game about winning.

And after we got embarrassed, it wasn't a big deal.

:hmmm:
I didn't get that at all.

Extra Point
08-30-2007, 10:43 AM
Oh bull!!!

That's 4 plays.

:)

Throwing the ball away doesn't constitute a play. We have a shot with the running plays as mentioned.

Direckshun
08-30-2007, 10:45 AM
Shield and Roaf were probowlers for TEN YEARS before Vermeil got here. Don't ****ing kid yourself, Willie Roaf made the offense go. Without him, they were pedestrian AT BEST. And the stats back it up.
Not to mention the FB comparison between the offenses:

Vermeil FB: All Pro Tony Richardson

Edwards FB: two players converted from other positions

Direckshun
08-30-2007, 10:46 AM
"Things turn out best for those who make the best of the way things turn out." --John Wooden, Greatest Coach of All Time
That is the dumbest quote I've ever read.

BigRock
08-30-2007, 10:47 AM
Could it be that those players were probowlers because of the success of the offense? Gonzalez is still the best TE in the game, but you wouldn't know it watching this crap. Shields and Roaf were on the downside of their careers. Holmes and Green were pretty good players made to look like GODS in this offense. Johnson is still a stud running back, but his average yards per carry is way down now that Herm is running the show.

You're fooling yourself if you think that Herm's offense is bad because we used to have amazing talent and now we have nobody. Not the case. We have a servicable quarterback, we have a vet center, a pro-bowl calibre guard, two first round draft pick recievers, the best TE in the game, a former pro-bowl right tackle, and one of the best backs in the league. Why do ALL of these guys look so bad so much of the time? Hmmm... Maybe something else stinks around here.
Why do you discount Shields and Roaf because they were "on the downside of their careers" on one hand, and then on the other you talk up Eddie Kennison as "a first round pick receiver", Casey as a "vet center", Tony as "the best TE in the game", and Turley as "a former Pro Bowl right tackle". All 4 of them are on the downside of their careers.

BigRock
08-30-2007, 10:49 AM
I didn't get that at all.
Anyone who saw Hard Knocks last night should know that isn't true. Herm was pissed.

mcan
08-30-2007, 10:52 AM
Shield and Roaf were probowlers for TEN YEARS before Vermeil got here. Don't ****ing kid yourself, Willie Roaf made the offense go. Without him, they were pedestrian AT BEST. And the stats back it up.


I remember this argument quite well. I think I posted the actual stats when Roaf got hurt and our offense did hiccup a bit. Here was my argument against that when Roaf hung up his cleats.

I think we still have a way better than average O-Line.


We have a better than average center, a ProBowl Guard, and a Hall of Fame Guard. 3/5ths of our line is STACKED.

We have a potential pro-bowler with question marks in camp to play tackle, and a bevy of suitors to line up at the other spot. I think in the end we'll be at least AVERAGE at tackle.

We have a guy named DUNN, who is essentially as good as any decent tackle lining up at TE.

We also have one of the best offensive line coaches as our offensive coordinator. He's done nothing but churn out GREAT O-linemen since he got to KC back in the 90s.


Last year when Roaf went down, we lost a lot of games, but here are our averages in those games, and our points scored...

Week 2: Raiders (W)
Rushing: 125 yards
Passing: 237 yards
Points: 23
(very respectable numbers and a win)

Week 3: Donkeys (L)
Rushing: 74 yards
Passing: 221
Points: 10
(Denver scored 17 first quarter points, and we became one dimentional. We only attempted 22 runs, and threw the ball 44 times)

Week 4: Eagles (L)
Rushing: 144 yards
Passing: 221 yards
Points: 31
(By all rights, not having Roaf didn't cost us this game. We imploded after half time. We also threw 2 picks, lost 2 fumbles and our defense gave up HUGE plays).

Week 9: Raiders (W)
Rushing: 114
Passing: 235
Points: 27
(By the end of the game, our offense was as good as ever. We scored 3 TDs in our last 4 drives. Unfortunately our defense let the Faides score TDs on both of their last two possessions and the game was closer than it should have been).

Week 10: Buffalo (L)
Rushing: 150 yards
Passing: 220 yards
Points: 3
(Yuck. This is the game that everybody is afraid of. Trent was sacked 6 times and threw 3 BIG picks. We also missed two field goals and lost a fumble. We also couldn't convert a couple of 4th down tries late in the game. But we did manage to run for 150 yards, so I think we can chalk this one up to a bad day. It proves that even when we are out of cync, Larry can have a BIG day anyway).

Week 11: Texans (W)
Rushing: 226
Passing: 220
Points: 45
(Nobody remembers this game? Larry ran for over 200, and we marched up and down the field all day. Trent did not get sacked all day. We did throw one pick, but other than that, the day was flawless. A shining example of how this offense CAN work without Willie).


That's it. Roaf is listed as the starter for the rest of the games, and that includes losses against: San Diego, Dallas, and NY Giants...

htismaqe
08-30-2007, 10:53 AM
Anyone who saw Hard Knocks last night should know that isn't true. Herm was pissed.

I haven't seen Hard Knocks from last week yet, let alone last night's. I have no desire to watch it anymore. I'd prefer to see less Carl Peterson, no more.

And I'll go find the quotes from Herm's conference's. He REALLY wanted to win that New Orleans game, but then pulled out the "well, it's only preseason" after we lost.

King_Chief_Fan
08-30-2007, 10:53 AM
It will be false success if they have any against St. Louis tonight.

None of their starters will be starting. (according to St. Louis news)

Go Chiefs, kick St. Louis 2nd and 3rd stringers booty and make yourselves think you are really something.

Chiefnj2
08-30-2007, 10:56 AM
Not to get into a big DV/Herm argument, but at least I saw what DV's plan was.

He wanted to revamp the entire team. He did so by building an offense quickly through FA and trades. He realized the importance of having a very good OL, in particular at LOT. His plan on offense worked to perfection.

He built the defense through the draft. The draft failures were his shortcoming as his top picks never panned out.

I'm not really sure what Herm's plan is at the moment.

Mr. Laz
08-30-2007, 10:57 AM
Shield and Roaf were probowlers for TEN YEARS before Vermeil got here. Don't ****ing kid yourself, Willie Roaf made the offense go. Without him, they were pedestrian AT BEST. And the stats back it up.
and i'll say it again ........ if your offense goes from 1st to worst because of the lost of 1 player your coaching sucks.


your smoking crack if you don't think the coaching hurt our offense as much as the loss of Willie Roaf. Hell under marty shottenheimer our left tackle was never good enough. we went on a endless search for offense lineman.


when in reality a predictable offense makes most offense lineman suck.

Frosty
08-30-2007, 10:58 AM
I haven't seen Hard Knocks from last week yet, let alone last night's. I have no desire to watch it anymore. I'd prefer to see less Carl Peterson, no more.

And I'll go find the quotes from Herm's conference's. He REALLY wanted to win that New Orleans game, but then pulled out the "well, it's only preseason" after we lost.

Carl was barely in it last night. One little clip with him and Bush.

And Herm was pissed. He was practically screaming at them.

bobbything
08-30-2007, 10:58 AM
This team is never "doomed." They never have been (post 1988).

We're so concerned with having (at least) an 8-win season that we will never turn in our 2000 Ford for a 1990 Geo Metro, in the hopes for a Mercedes down the line.

It's just the way it is. And it's the way it will be for, at least, the next 2 years.

Direckshun
08-30-2007, 10:59 AM
and i'll say it again ........ if your offense goes from 1st to worst because of the lost of 1 player your coaching sucks.
I don't think that was the case.

Edwards inherited a shell of a team, which is what your teams look like when you build through FA and trades and your draft picks bust.

He put lipstick on the pig somehow during an injury-riddled 2006 season, and he's in position again to do it this season.

BigRock
08-30-2007, 11:02 AM
And I'll go find the quotes from Herm's conference's. He REALLY wanted to win that New Orleans game, but then pulled out the "well, it's only preseason" after we lost.
The media is one thing. Hard Knocks showed his post-game speech to the team.

Woodrow Call
08-30-2007, 11:05 AM
and i'll say it again ........ if your offense goes from 1st to worst because of the lost of 1 player your coaching sucks.


your smoking crack if you don't think the coaching hurt our offense as much as the loss of Willie Roaf. Hell under marty shottenheimer our left tackle was never good enough. we went on a endless search for offense lineman.


when in reality a predictable offense makes most offense lineman suck.

It wasn't just Roaf.

It was 4 different tackles, Waters missing games, Shields playing horrible, and Green getting destroyed. The line was a mess all year and it finally made the lack of skill at WR become glaring.

Sounds like a recipe for a 20-25 ranked offense to me.

mcan
08-30-2007, 11:06 AM
Why do you discount Shields and Roaf because they were "on the downside of their careers" on one hand, and then on the other you talk up Eddie Kennison as "a first round pick receiver", Casey as a "vet center", Tony as "the best TE in the game", and Turley as "a former Pro Bowl right tackle". All 4 of them are on the downside of their careers.


What I'm trying to show is that we had talent then, and we have talent now. We had talent last year as well. It's too easy to throw up your hands and declare that losing Roaf made it impossible for us to score points, or that any stooge with a clipboard could have set records with the STACKED team that was '05.

LOCOChief
08-30-2007, 11:20 AM
It will be false success if they have any against St. Louis tonight.

None of their starters will be starting. (according to St. Louis news)

Go Chiefs, kick St. Louis 2nd and 3rd stringers booty and make yourselves think you are really something.


If your saying that the Chiefs are really nothing, then your name King Chief Fan doesn't really seem appropriate.

htismaqe
08-30-2007, 11:45 AM
Not to get into a big DV/Herm argument, but at least I saw what DV's plan was.

He wanted to revamp the entire team. He did so by building an offense quickly through FA and trades. He realized the importance of having a very good OL, in particular at LOT. His plan on offense worked to perfection.

He built the defense through the draft. The draft failures were his shortcoming as his top picks never panned out.

I'm not really sure what Herm's plan is at the moment.

Unfortunately, you're right...

Chiefnj2
08-30-2007, 11:57 AM
Unfortunately, you're right...

Herm is creating a lot of fan excitement about backup WR's and FB's, when it is the OL that should be getting attention.

bobbything
08-30-2007, 11:59 AM
Unfortunately, you're right...
I've been emailing with a buddy of mine today about this exact thing. You could see what Marty wanted to do. You could see what Vermeil wanted to do. Right or wrong, they did it their way.

I'm not sure what Edwards' vision is. The only thing I can see is that he's not aggressive; with anything.

The "don't take the risk" approach to everything is becoming quite clear. We're not going to take the chance of losing this game; we're gonna wait for the opponent to screw up. And the way we got into the playoffs last year is a direct reflection of that mentality. We waited for two other teams to piss down their leg.

I'm not sure what we have in Edwards just yet. But, I agree that I have no idea what his vision is for this team.

Mr. Laz
08-30-2007, 12:00 PM
I don't think that was the case.

Edwards inherited a shell of a team, which is what your teams look like when you build through FA and trades and your draft picks bust.

He put lipstick on the pig somehow during an injury-riddled 2006 season, and he's in position again to do it this season.
ok ... then this year our offense should be just dandy.


can i put you down for a top 10 prediction then?

htismaqe
08-30-2007, 12:08 PM
Herm is creating a lot of fan excitement about backup WR's and FB's, when it is the OL that should be getting attention.

They're hyping guys like Boomer and Sippio because they know KC fans like the underdog story and it makes for a perfect smokescreen to over the glaring weaknesses this team has...

Chris Meck
08-30-2007, 12:17 PM
I don't think it is possible to overstate how unique Willie Roaf's particular skill set was. He was indeed, one player, but he could do things that I'm not sure anyone else in football can do. All that perimeter stuff worked because of Roaf and Shields' unusual mobility. (Wiegmann, too, for that matter. Mobility is his strong point.)

Point being, those guys could all move extremely well for big men. You'll notice that the stretch play that was our bread and butter during the Priest years doesn't work like it used to anymore.

Used to be, we were going to run it, everyone watching knew it was coming, defense knew it was coming, and they still couldn't stop it.

It used to work pretty good to the right too, until Tait left. Then we ran it almost exclusively to the left.

I just think sometimes you lose a player, and it's just a player. Sometimes you lose a no doubt, slam dunk first ballot hall of famer and that's something entirely different.

I'm not saying that to defend the playcalling of last year. I'm just saying Willie Roaf wasn't just 'a player' and that his absence has a LOT to do with a less efficient offense.

King_Chief_Fan
08-30-2007, 12:29 PM
If your saying that the Chiefs are really nothing, then your name King Chief Fan doesn't really seem appropriate.
My name was very appropriate when I took it.

I should change to King Chief Fan Disappointed.

This team lacks direction, inspiration and purpose. It is what Herm has made it to be.

Like another posted stated....With Marty and DV you knew what they were trying to do and their actions matched. I guess we could say that Herm has no idea of what he is doing and his actions match.

Hoping that your starters really look good against another team's bench is fairly pathetic in my mind.

LOCOChief
08-30-2007, 12:52 PM
My name was very appropriate when I took it.

I should change to King Chief Fan Disappointed.

This team lacks direction, inspiration and purpose. It is what Herm has made it to be.

Like another posted stated....With Marty and DV you knew what they were trying to do and their actions matched. I guess we could say that Herm has no idea of what he is doing and his actions match.

Hoping that your starters really look good against another team's bench is fairly pathetic in my mind.

No you should change it to fair weather chiefs fan.

In what way does this team lack direction?

By "lacking purpose you mean what exactly"?

Inspiration???? Herm had to walk on, then work his ass of to be a performer in this league as a player. I would think now more than ever this guy is an inspiration to all those who play for him. Most player interviews reiterate this point.

TEX
08-30-2007, 01:20 PM
Those consequences could include a winless preseason and, worse yet, an offense still stuck in neutral.

Neutral would be an improvement.

TEX
08-30-2007, 01:23 PM
No you should change it to fair weather chiefs fan.

In what way does this team lack direction?

By "lacking purpose you mean what exactly"?

Inspiration???? Herm had to walk on, then work his ass of to be a performer in this league as a player. I would think now more than ever this guy is an inspiration to all those who play for him. Most player interviews reiterate this point.


Man I love it when "true" fans call all those who have a different point of view than theirs, "fair weather." :rolleyes:

That's like someone calling you a noob, and dismissing anything that you have to say, on the rare occasion that you make sense...

FAX
08-30-2007, 01:25 PM
Some people just don't get it, Mr. TEX.

You aren't a real Chiefs fan until you've attempted to hang yourself at least twice.

FAX

el borracho
08-30-2007, 01:28 PM
I'm pretty sure that anyone who spends 6 years on an internet bulletin board talking about the Chiefs is more than a "fair weather fan."

Otter
08-30-2007, 01:30 PM
No you should change it to fair weather chiefs fan.

In what way does this team lack direction?

By "lacking purpose you mean what exactly"?

Inspiration???? Herm had to walk on, then work his ass of to be a performer in this league as a player. I would think now more than ever this guy is an inspiration to all those who play for him. Most player interviews reiterate this point.

On your knees and quiver peon!!! A true fan is present!!!

TEX
08-30-2007, 01:30 PM
I've been emailing with a buddy of mine today about this exact thing. You could see what Marty wanted to do. You could see what Vermeil wanted to do. Right or wrong, they did it their way.

I'm not sure what Edwards' vision is. The only thing I can see is that he's not aggressive; with anything.

The "don't take the risk" approach to everything is becoming quite clear. We're not going to take the chance of losing this game; we're gonna wait for the opponent to screw up. And the way we got into the playoffs last year is a direct reflection of that mentality. We waited for two other teams to piss down their leg.

I'm not sure what we have in Edwards just yet. But, I agree that I have no idea what his vision is for this team.

:clap:

That's because he talks out of his a$$. Guys like him say soooooo much but do sooooo little. To use a "Hermism" -Herm might not know what direction he'll take the team , but "He'll Learn, he'll learn.."

TEX
08-30-2007, 01:31 PM
Some people just don't get it, Mr. TEX.

You aren't a real Chiefs fan until you've attempted to hang yourself at least twice.

FAX

TWO! That's all?

Coogs
08-30-2007, 01:33 PM
Some people just don't get it, Mr. TEX.

You aren't a real Chiefs fan until you've attempted to hang yourself at least twice.

FAX

I miss the good old days when all you had to do to be a real Chiefs fan was be a season ticket holder. :)

Zouk
08-30-2007, 01:37 PM
I've been emailing with a buddy of mine today about this exact thing. You could see what Marty wanted to do. You could see what Vermeil wanted to do. Right or wrong, they did it their way.

I'm not sure what Edwards' vision is. The only thing I can see is that he's not aggressive; with anything.

The "don't take the risk" approach to everything is becoming quite clear. We're not going to take the chance of losing this game; we're gonna wait for the opponent to screw up. And the way we got into the playoffs last year is a direct reflection of that mentality. We waited for two other teams to piss down their leg.

I'm not sure what we have in Edwards just yet. But, I agree that I have no idea what his vision is for this team.


I don't know. To me Herm's vision of the team is brutally obvious.

Minimize mistakes on offense and win on defense and special teams. Cold weather ball, not dome ball.

What's so hard to get?

FAX
08-30-2007, 01:41 PM
I don't know. To me Herm's vision of the team is brutally obvious.

Minimize mistakes on offense and win on defense and special teams. Cold weather ball, not dome ball.

What's so hard to get?

Apparently, the "hard to get" part are the first downs and stuff, Mr. Zouk.

FAX

Chief Henry
08-30-2007, 02:04 PM
I don't know. To me Herm's vision of the team is brutally obvious.

Minimize mistakes on offense and win on defense and special teams. Cold weather ball, not dome ball.

What's so hard to get?



Its because we fans witnessed our chiefs just kick the f'n snot out of his NY Jets team two years ago on opening day. We chief fans realize Herm never accomplished shit in NY. We also witnessed a brutal game plan vs the Colts last year in the playoffs. It was a game plan that he didn't tweak at all as the game progressed. We were f'n embarresessed on national TV while not getting a first down until the end of the 3rd qtr. We're tired of being the f'n bridesmaid. Marty took us to the prom using defense. Dick V. took us to the prom using only offense.
Each of those coach's proved to be good at either offense or defense.
Under Herman Edwards, we're seeing that he's not excelling at
anything. We only see Herm being one of King Carls boys from his :cuss: UCLA days....

It could also be that some of us fans are so PISSED off at a team
that hasn't won a playoff game since 1993. One man has been in charge that intire time, and his name is Carl "stfu@stfd" Pederson
and he's still here.

bobbything
08-30-2007, 02:24 PM
I don't know. To me Herm's vision of the team is brutally obvious.

Minimize mistakes on offense and win on defense and special teams. Cold weather ball, not dome ball.

What's so hard to get?
That's not what I meant by vision. By "vision" I mean, what does he want with each side of the ball? "Win on defense" doesn't mean anything really.

How is he going to win on defense? I knew what Marty was establishing on defense and how he planned on winning. I knew what Vermeil was establishing on offense and how he planned on winning. I have no idea what Herm is establishing anywhere. On offense, I suppose it's obvious, "don't do anything that might result in a mistake." On defense, maybe it's create turnovers for our offense that won't do anything. I don't know.

Zouk
08-30-2007, 02:33 PM
Its because we fans witnessed our chiefs just kick the f'n snot out of his NY Jets team two years ago on opening day. We chief fans realize Herm never accomplished shit in NY. We also witnessed a brutal game plan vs the Colts last year in the playoffs. It was a game plan that he didn't tweak at all as the game progressed. We were f'n embarresessed on national TV while not getting a first down until the end of the 3rd qtr. We're tired of being the f'n bridesmaid. Marty took us to the prom using defense. Dick V. took us to the prom using only offense.
Each of those coach's proved to be good at either offense or defense.
Under Herman Edwards, we're seeing that he's not excelling at
anything. We only see Herm being one of King Carls boys from his :cuss: UCLA days....

It could also be that some of us fans are so PISSED off at a team
that hasn't won a playoff game since 1993. One man has been in charge that intire time, and his name is Carl "stfu@stfd" Pederson
and he's still here.


Whatever man. 4 playoffs in 6 years, with 5 of those years spent playing in the same division as a dynasty with a QB that always got hurt.

Otter
08-30-2007, 02:36 PM
Whatever man. 4 playoffs in 6 years, with 5 of those years spent playing in the same division as a dynasty with a QB that always got hurt.

Yup, the same division where every other team has been to Super Bowl except the Chiefs.

Zouk
08-30-2007, 02:37 PM
That's not what I meant by vision. By "vision" I mean, what does he want with each side of the ball? "Win on defense" doesn't mean anything really.

How is he going to win on defense? I knew what Marty was establishing on defense and how he planned on winning. I knew what Vermeil was establishing on offense and how he planned on winning. I have no idea what Herm is establishing anywhere. On offense, I suppose it's obvious, "don't do anything that might result in a mistake." On defense, maybe it's create turnovers for our offense that won't do anything. I don't know.

Look at Herm's 6 years of teams. The Jets were in the top 5 in least penalties and best takeaway/giveaway ratio in most of his 5 years there. ( not the last year with incompetent Brooks Bollinger QBing. I don't have the exact figures with me right now, but I've seen them before)

Zouk
08-30-2007, 02:39 PM
Yup, the same division where every other team has been to Super Bowl except the Chiefs.


I didn't write that well, but I was referring to the AFC East. The Jets record in Herm's tenure is doubly impressive when one realizes the PAts dynasty was in its prime in his years there, making it extremely difficult for them to win the division more than the one time they actually did. The Jets couldn't beat the Pats in most of those years, but the rest of the NFL couldn't either.

bobbything
08-30-2007, 02:49 PM
Look at Herm's 6 years of teams. The Jets were in the top 5 in least penalties and best takeaway/giveaway ratio in most of his 5 years there. ( not the last year with incompetent Brooks Bollinger QBing. I don't have the exact figures with me right now, but I've seen them before)
So, his "vision" for each side of the ball is to limit mistakes. Sounds like a formula for greatness.

.

King_Chief_Fan
08-30-2007, 03:08 PM
No you should change it to fair weather chiefs fan.

In what way does this team lack direction?

By "lacking purpose you mean what exactly"?

Inspiration???? Herm had to walk on, then work his ass of to be a performer in this league as a player. I would think now more than ever this guy is an inspiration to all those who play for him. Most player interviews reiterate this point.

you be impressed with I used to be a playa all you want there n00b.
He isn't a coach, he is part of the player fraternity. I love me some Herm cause he played football.....blah.
Does this team know where it is going?.....nope
lacking purpose? Oh yeah, we play to win the game
Inspiration - yup the fans feel it.


The real fans have been through this before, I doubt you remember the 80's. That was when you could put two Chiefs tickets on your windshiled and come back later to find four.

tk13
08-30-2007, 03:16 PM
So, his "vision" for each side of the ball is to limit mistakes. Sounds like a formula for greatness.

.
As mediocre as the NFL is today, I think that's becoming more and more of a viable gameplan, unfortunately. Look at how ugly the last two Super Bowls have been.

Not to mention that they've both been won by coaches who are considered Marty "disciples". Even the Colts, who've always been considered a high flying team, weren't really. Manning didn't play all that great in the playoffs... they ran the football well with Rhodes/Addai and played defense. Then let the Chiefs, Ravens, Bears, etc shoot themselves in the foot.

DaKCMan AP
08-30-2007, 03:18 PM
C-Mac, you streaming the game tonight?

DaKCMan AP
08-30-2007, 05:26 PM
bump

Reerun_KC
08-30-2007, 05:38 PM
Its because we fans witnessed our chiefs just kick the f'n snot out of his NY Jets team two years ago on opening day. We chief fans realize Herm never accomplished shit in NY. We also witnessed a brutal game plan vs the Colts last year in the playoffs. It was a game plan that he didn't tweak at all as the game progressed. We were f'n embarresessed on national TV while not getting a first down until the end of the 3rd qtr. We're tired of being the f'n bridesmaid. Marty took us to the prom using defense. Dick V. took us to the prom using only offense.
Each of those coach's proved to be good at either offense or defense.
Under Herman Edwards, we're seeing that he's not excelling at
anything. We only see Herm being one of King Carls boys from his :cuss: UCLA days....

It could also be that some of us fans are so PISSED off at a team
that hasn't won a playoff game since 1993. One man has been in charge that intire time, and his name is Carl "stfu@stfd" Pederson
and he's still here.


Holy Shit this has to be the post of the year!

Awesome!