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Wile_E_Coyote
08-31-2007, 10:58 AM
GRETZ: The Next Moves

Aug 31, 2007, 8:50:56 AM by Bob Gretz (http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/bob_gretz/) - FAQ (http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2004/01/19/bob_gretz_faq/)


ST. LOUIS Ė Last night at the Ed Dome here, the Chiefs finished up the pre-season losing 10-3 to the St. Louis Rams.
Game highlights included Ö
Enough of that.

Thankfully the pre-season is completed. Now, comes the matter of trimming the roster to the NFL limit of 53 players. That must get done by Saturday afternoon. The Chiefs may announce some of their moves as early as Friday afternoon.

For the most part, there really arenít that many tough decisions for the Chiefs. Many of the players that will be released are names that are not well known to Chiefs fans. But there are some familiar names that were part of the discussions leading up to this final cut. Especially this year, with Herm Edwards talking about this team getting younger.

Whether or not any of these players actually sees the waiver wire remains to be seen, but you can bet there were discussions about the options with numerous veteran players like:

Tight End Jason Dunn. After starting the pre-season on the PUP list, Dunn got back on the field and heís been less than impressive. Heís survived this long because of his ability to block and if the coaches feel thatís dropped off at all, thereís not much of a reason to keep him. Given the Chiefs offensive problems in the pre-season, the coaches on that side of the ball will likely lobby to keep any player that could provide help for that unit.

Safety Greg Wesley. The Chiefs have been trying to trade Wesley for the better part of the last six months. There have been a couple of interested parties including most recently the Houston Texans. That deal didnít get done when Wesley refused to re-negotiate his contract. Wesley can still contribute on the field, but he wonít be a starter and thatís not likely to leave him as a happy camper.

Wide Receiver Samie Parker. There really hasnít been much of a change in the evaluation of Parker since the end of last season. Heís physically gifted, but he drops too many passes and too often is not where he should be on pass routes. Herm Edwards wants to get Dwayne Bowe and Jeff Webb on the field in the offense, which is going to take away snaps from Parker. The addition of Eddie Drummond as a receiver-returner brings into discussion whether the Chiefs carry four or five receivers. If itís four, Parker is the odd man out.

Fullback Boomer Grigsby. After last season, Grigsby knew the only way to save his spot on the Chiefs roster was to make the switch from linebacker to offense and the fullback position. Heís made great progress there, making himself more of a factor in the battle for roster spots than anyone would have imagined. Losing two games to injury did not help his cause. Neither did his dropped pass Thursday night in St. Louis, or his first holding call in pass protection. The Chiefs are not an every-down, two-back team, which means they have less of a need for a backup fullback.

Linebacker Rich Scanlon. The Chiefs figure to keep seven linebackers, although the situation with Wesley may force them to carry five safeties, which has a trickle down effect on the other positions. Right now, it looks like Scanlon trying to pry the seventh linebacker spot out of the hands of rookie free agent Nate Harris. Against St. Louis, Scanlon and Harris were on all four major kicking teams units. The decision may come down to Scanlonís experience against Harrisí upside and speed.

L.A. Chieffan
08-31-2007, 11:00 AM
Cut Dunn? I don't think so.
No way Grigsby gets cut.

Bowser
08-31-2007, 11:01 AM
If they release Dunn, with the blocking problems our O-Line, has, I will give up on this team while Herm and Carl are still here.

Bowser
08-31-2007, 11:02 AM
And everybody knows Parker is going to get cut so we can keep Sippio....

Deberg_1990
08-31-2007, 11:04 AM
Im not a Wesley fan , but its hard to believe hardly any team wants him considering his INT stats? I guess thats a pretty telling sign. The radio guys said last night, if he stays in KC , he will become a special teams player. LOL


Parker is physically gifted? WTF? Hes as good as gone.

John_Wayne
08-31-2007, 11:04 AM
DUMP SCANLON!

StcChief
08-31-2007, 11:04 AM
Gretz KMA Boomer makes it.
Parker gone
Dunn PUP

bobbything
08-31-2007, 11:04 AM
What the hell? Cut Jason Dunn? IIRC, we have "blocking issues."

I believe Gretz is talking out of his mammoth asshole.

John_Wayne
08-31-2007, 11:06 AM
Im not a Wesley fan , but its hard to believe hardly any team wants him considering his INT stats? I guess thats a pretty telling sign. The radio guys said last night, if he stays in KC , he will become a special teams player. LOL


Parker is physically gifted? WTF? Hes as good as gone. A trade has been worked out, but he won't take a pay cut.

Wile_E_Coyote
08-31-2007, 11:06 AM
The Scanlon jokes reached the shark jumping stage some time back. He will go on to coach the Broncos 10 years from now, making us all sorry

Fish
08-31-2007, 11:08 AM
Please cut Boomer.... and Parker....

Woodrow Call
08-31-2007, 11:26 AM
Sounds good to me.

Dunn- He is slowing down and if its between him and Allan I'd keep Allan.

Boomer- Great guy but a waste of a roster spot

Scanlon- Seems to have maxed out and Harris is younger, faster, and has room to grow.

The other 2 need no explaination.

bringbackmarty
08-31-2007, 11:26 AM
dunn gets cut, watch....

Chiefnj2
08-31-2007, 11:31 AM
4 WRs consisting of Kennison, Bowe, Webb and Drummond?

ferrarispider95
08-31-2007, 11:32 AM
Sounds good to me.

Dunn- He is slowing down and if its between him and Allan I'd keep Allan.

Boomer- Great guy but a waste of a roster spot

Scanlon- Seems to have maxed out and Harris is younger, faster, and has room to grow.

The other 2 need no explaination.



Allan is a pass catching tight end, he does not have the size to block effectively like Dunn. I can't see how they would cut Dunn with our oline problems.

ferrarispider95
08-31-2007, 11:33 AM
4 WRs consisting of Kennison, Bowe, Webb and Drummond?


Drummond is going to be considered as a return specialist, so I think there will be 1 spot after the top 3 you mentioned.

Hopefully it is not parker, possibly webb, remote chance sippio.

Woodrow Call
08-31-2007, 11:34 AM
Allan is a pass catching tight end, he does not have the size to block effectively like Dunn. I can't see how they would cut Dunn with our oline problems.

Maybe Dunn's body just won't allow him to be a great blocker anymore.

Fish
08-31-2007, 11:35 AM
Boomer has the heart... but not the head to play offense....

We can't have a lovable idiot lead blocking for us... when our running game will be such an important part of the offense..

Basileus777
08-31-2007, 11:35 AM
4 WRs consisting of Kennison, Bowe, Webb and Drummond?

I don't think there is much chance we will carry only 4 wrs. Hannon won't get cut.

Skip Towne
08-31-2007, 11:41 AM
Cut Dunn? Then who would hoist up LJ after TD's?

htismaqe
08-31-2007, 12:02 PM
Wouldn't be disappointed at all if they cut all 5 of them...

patteeu
08-31-2007, 12:12 PM
Wouldn't be disappointed at all if they cut all 5 of them...

Same.

Phobia
08-31-2007, 12:15 PM
Wouldn't be disappointed at all if they cut all 5 of them...

Exactly. I'm a fan of the team. Players come and go. I like some of those guys but I'm more concerned about the long-term implications to the development of this team. I'm in for 2008 and beyond. I don't think 2007 is a wasted season, but it's safe to say I've resigned the likelihood this team will play past Dec 30th.

Micjones
08-31-2007, 12:17 PM
Can't see the Chiefs cutting Dunn.
There will be room for Allan anyway.

htismaqe
08-31-2007, 12:20 PM
There's a good chance that Dunn's body just can't handle it anymore.

Wile_E_Coyote
08-31-2007, 12:21 PM
I think Grigsby is too much act & not enough substance

penguinz
08-31-2007, 12:22 PM
There are very few, if any, non-cutable players on this team.

htismaqe
08-31-2007, 12:22 PM
I think Grigsby is too much act & not enough substance

Yep.

Phobia
08-31-2007, 12:26 PM
If Grigsby gets cut and can't catch on with another NFL squad I really hope Neil Smith signs him. He would add instant fans to the Brigade.

siberian khatru
08-31-2007, 12:34 PM
I'm tired of delaying the inevitable. Pretty much anybody who's not a long-term solution should go.

htismaqe
08-31-2007, 12:36 PM
If Grigsby gets cut and can't catch on with another NFL squad I really hope Neil Smith signs him. He would add instant fans to the Brigade.

Boomer could be a full-time RB in the Arena League...

ILChief
08-31-2007, 12:46 PM
There are very few, if any, non-cutable players on this team.

There are plenty of non-cuttable players on this team

penguinz
08-31-2007, 12:51 PM
There are plenty of non-cuttable players on this teamThere are fewer than can be counted on 10 fingers. That shows how poorly built this team is.

Valiant
08-31-2007, 01:06 PM
Allan is a pass catching tight end, he does not have the size to block effectively like Dunn. I can't see how they would cut Dunn with our oline problems.


Because they will use Gonzo to block.. Duh....

carlos3652
08-31-2007, 01:32 PM
There are fewer than can be counted on 10 fingers. That shows how poorly built this team is.

Well, other than the fact that there is only 22 starting positions, I would say if you have 1/3 of the team as "un-cuttable", you are in pretty good shape... Im not sure there are many teams in the NFL with more than 1/2 the team being "un-cuttable"

penguinz
08-31-2007, 01:38 PM
Well, other than the fact that there is only 22 starting positions, I would say if you have 1/3 of the team as "un-cuttable", you are in pretty good shape... Im not sure there are many teams in the NFL with more than 1/2 the team being "un-cuttable"Name more than 5. We do not have one person on the team that you would not replace with a player off another team if the opportunity presented its self.

bobbything
08-31-2007, 01:42 PM
Well, other than the fact that there is only 22 starting positions, I would say if you have 1/3 of the team as "un-cuttable", you are in pretty good shape... Im not sure there are many teams in the NFL with more than 1/2 the team being "un-cuttable"
I think what he's getting at is that nobody is standing out on this team as dominant in their respective position. And I would completely agree with that.

Basically, everyone looks bad enough to get cut.

penguinz
08-31-2007, 01:44 PM
I think what he's getting at is that nobody is standing out on this team as dominant in their respective position. And I would completely agree with that.

Basically, everyone looks bad enough to get cut.Exactly. As of today there is no one on the team that you would not replace with a player from another team if given the opportunity.

carlos3652
08-31-2007, 01:47 PM
I think what he's getting at is that nobody is standing out on this team as dominant in their respective position. And I would completely agree with that.

Basically, everyone looks bad enough to get cut.

Its preseason...

LJ, TG, Waters, Allen, Edwards, and Law... for sure

DJ, Hali and Bowe are raw / young talents I wouldnt mind not cutting to see how they pan out...

Chiefnj2
08-31-2007, 01:48 PM
Exactly. As of today there is no one on the team that you would not replace with a player from another team if given the opportunity.

I actually thought that Phinisee (sp?) really made a damn good effort to win the return job. Then, they bring in Drummond. It seemed to be a good spot to try to make a youth movement.

carlos3652
08-31-2007, 01:48 PM
Exactly. As of today there is no one on the team that you would not replace with a player from another team if given the opportunity.

That could be said on any team in the nfl... some teams might have 1, or 2 players that are keepers, but most of the 32 teams would replace any as well...

bobbything
08-31-2007, 01:50 PM
Its preseason...
Exactly. Preseason is glorified practice. And nobody has really stood out in practice.

I'm not suggesting that we cut our "aces" (Law, Surtain, the young players), but nobody has really looked that good individually.

carlos3652
08-31-2007, 01:50 PM
I actually thought that Phinisee (sp?) really made a damn good effort to win the return job. Then, they bring in Drummond. It seemed to be a good spot to try to make a youth movement.

Drummond is 27? how is that not young?

penguinz
08-31-2007, 01:55 PM
Its preseason...

LJ, TG, Waters, Allen, Edwards, and Law... for sure

DJ, Hali and Bowe are raw / young talents I wouldnt mind not cutting to see how they pan out...
LJ < LT
TG < Gates (at this point in his career)
Waters - this would be the closest to a non-replaceable player
Edwards - Donnie or Herm? ;) Both of them are easily replaced by better LB's/Coaches
Allen < Peppers
Law < Champ

htismaqe
08-31-2007, 01:55 PM
Drummond is 27? how is that not young?

He got a 1-year deal, right?

Band aid.

HemiEd
08-31-2007, 02:01 PM
I actually thought that Phinisee (sp?) really made a damn good effort to win the return job. Then, they bring in Drummond. It seemed to be a good spot to try to make a youth movement.

I agree, what else could Phinisee do? He has shown up strong since the first day of camp.

Chiefnj2
08-31-2007, 02:05 PM
Drummond is 27? how is that not young?

Drummond isn't old, but I thought the idea was finding and developing your own young players. Phinesse is one of the few players that has actually shown up and (from a fans view) is making a big noticeable effort.

It's also kind of odd that they cut Gardner when all the coaches admitted he had great skills and was having a very good camp, but didn't quite "trust" him to continue playing that well.

htismaqe
08-31-2007, 02:13 PM
but I thought the idea was finding and developing your own young players.

Sure seems like lip service now...

HemiEd
08-31-2007, 02:13 PM
Drummond isn't old, but I thought the idea was finding and developing your own young players. Phinesse is one of the few players that has actually shown up and (from a fans view) is making a big noticeable effort.

It's also kind of odd that they cut Gardner when all the coaches admitted he had great skills and was having a very good camp, but didn't quite "trust" him to continue playing that well.

I found the Gardner incident disturbing as well. I interpreted it as he didn't kiss ass well enough. The guy had a good preseason/camp, but we are so stacked with receivers we couldn't find room for him?

penguinz
08-31-2007, 02:14 PM
Drummond isn't old, but I thought the idea was finding and developing your own young players. Phinesse is one of the few players that has actually shown up and (from a fans view) is making a big noticeable effort.

It's also kind of odd that they cut Gardner when all the coaches admitted he had great skills and was having a very good camp, but didn't quite "trust" him to continue playing that well.Gardner has a really bad attitude and they did not want it to rub off on other players.

HemiEd
08-31-2007, 02:14 PM
Sure seems like lip service now...

Or justification for getting rid of Dick Vermeil's players and satisfying Herm's ego with making it truly his team.

Chiefnj2
08-31-2007, 02:16 PM
Gardner has a really bad attitude and they did not want it to rub off on other players.

How do you know this? How is going out and having a very good camp and producing on the field in practice indicative of a "bad attitude"?

dtebbe
08-31-2007, 02:19 PM
If they release Dunn, with the blocking problems our O-Line, has, I will give up on this team while Herm and Carl are still here.

This is the same team that let T-Rich get away... I would not be surprised at all.

DT

HemiEd
08-31-2007, 02:21 PM
How do you know this? How is going out and having a very good camp and producing on the field in practice indicative of a "bad attitude"?

Isn't the hatchet man's name "Farmer?" He said some of the coaches found Gardner objectionable IIRC. You can interpret that in several ways I guess.

L.A. Chieffan
08-31-2007, 02:21 PM
How do you know this? How is going out and having a very good camp and producing on the field in practice indicative of a "bad attitude"?
Dude, you don't know everything that goes on behind the scenes. Are you saying that Gardner is a stud and one of the best WRs we have but we cut him anyway just for shits and giggles? What the **** are you saying?

penguinz
08-31-2007, 02:22 PM
How do you know this? How is going out and having a very good camp and producing on the field in practice indicative of a "bad attitude"?Did you see the last episode of Hard Knocks? He was basically told he was cut because they were not sure they could trust him.

stevieray
08-31-2007, 05:13 PM
How do you know this?

Because of his response when asked if he would consider coming back...

Farmer laid it out for everyone to see.

vincent
08-31-2007, 05:27 PM
Exactly. As of today there is no one on the team that you would not replace with a player from another team if given the opportunity.

here's one (http://www.nfl.com/players/dustincolquitt/profile?id=COL759300)

Rain Man
08-31-2007, 05:32 PM
I found the Gardner incident disturbing as well. I interpreted it as he didn't kiss ass well enough. The guy had a good preseason/camp, but we are so stacked with receivers we couldn't find room for him?

My theory is that Gardner was having a good camp, but that he has a history of slacking off once he's feeling secure. All of these NFL coaches talk to each other. I'm also assuming that he showed it last year and they don't want that kind of thinking on the team this year.

ChiefaRoo
08-31-2007, 05:34 PM
My theory is that Gardner was having a good camp, but that he has a history of slacking off once he's feeling secure. All of these NFL coaches talk to each other. I'm also assuming that he showed it last year and they don't want that kind of thinking on the team this year.

Yep. Plus did you notice how he was becoming Bowe's best buddy. Herm didn't want that.

el borracho
08-31-2007, 10:44 PM
Allan is a pass catching tight end, he does not have the size to block effectively like Dunn. I can't see how they would cut Dunn with our oline problems.
Dunn = 6'6", 274 lbs. with a bad back
Allan = 6'6", 254 lbs.

I think we can all agree that Gonzalez is an effective blocker and Allan is a little bigger (1 inch taller, 3 lbs. heavier) so there really isn't any reason Allan cannot be an effective blocker, as well. If we need a giant we should just use Turley or one of the other Olinemen. Actually, I keep hoping we will rediscover the tackle-elegible play a la Joe Valerio. Turley would be a good choice since he came back wanting to be a TE, anyway. I'm assuming that means he can somewhat catch.

Count Zarth
08-31-2007, 10:45 PM
Allan doesn't have the upper body strength to be an effective blocker, and rarely blocked in college. He'd be a rotten blocker this year.

Chiefnj2
08-31-2007, 10:54 PM
My theory is that Gardner was having a good camp, but that he has a history of slacking off once he's feeling secure. .

Exactly. Herm was afraid he couldn't trust a certain player that was currently outplaying the other guys. Herm felt it was less of a risk to play a crappy player that he felt he could trust. I could buy that if the 1-3 receiver were reliable. But they aren't. The team needs players that can get open and catch the ball; and this is what Gardner had been doing.

If Gardner was never going to overcome his previous "slacking" image, why bring him in?

milkman
09-01-2007, 12:04 AM
Turley would be a good choice since he came back wanting to be a TE, anyway. I'm assuming that means he can somewhat catch.

That's a rather large assumption.

Samie Dropper is a WR, but he sure as hell can't catch.

milkman
09-01-2007, 12:07 AM
Sure seems like lip service now...

With that in mind, it wouldn't surprise me if they kept Scanlon over Harris.

htismaqe
09-01-2007, 07:09 AM
With that in mind, it wouldn't surprise me if they kept Scanlon over Harris.

Scanlon was a Vermeil pickup. If Herm replaces Scanlon with Harris, it gives him a chance to say "see, we're getting younger!" without taking any REAL risk.