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View Full Version : Herm interested in Leftwich? Peter King Thinks so. . .


percysnow
08-31-2007, 04:24 PM
Chiefs the only team mentionerd in the article. . just specualtion

it's not known how many teams would be interested in acquiring Leftwich, because the move comes as such a shock. But Kansas City and coach Herman Edwards would surely be intrigued. The Chiefs have grown wary of placing their quarterbacking future in the hands of second-year passer Brodie Croyle, who has had a poor camp this summer.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/08/31/leftwich.release/index.html

Basileus777
08-31-2007, 04:26 PM
Its Peter King. Not exactly a source I would trust. And he is just speculating anyways.

percysnow
08-31-2007, 04:30 PM
yeah thatds kinda why i wrote just speculating

Micjones
08-31-2007, 04:31 PM
You'd have to think this organization would be interested if he were cut outright. Even if we had a real answer at QB he'd be a great signing at the backup QB spot.

digi2fish
08-31-2007, 04:38 PM
get a solid OL first.

Fruit Ninja
08-31-2007, 04:38 PM
I wouldnt mind him. I think he's pretty elusive. He also plays behind a horrible line. One thing about Leftwhich is you have to carry his ass out on a stretcher before he pull himself out.

DaKCMan AP
08-31-2007, 04:38 PM
I'll believe it when I see it.

Crashride
08-31-2007, 04:39 PM
I say sign him for the right price

Manila-Chief
08-31-2007, 04:40 PM
The Chiefs have grown wary of placing their quarterbacking future in the hands of second-year passer Brodie Croyle, who has had a poor camp this summer.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/08/31/leftwich.release/index.html

Herm didn't sound like he has given up on Brodie. I'm discovering a lot of these national writers don't know the facts and only guess out of their dream world.

I doubt the Chiefs will give him even a thought????

arrowheadnation
08-31-2007, 04:46 PM
I think that out of all the teams in the league, the fact he mentioned us as needing a quarterback rather than mentioning the likes of Atlanta or Minnesota, pretty much tells me that we've hit rock bottom in the eyes of the national media.

The Bad Guy
08-31-2007, 04:49 PM
He has to be interested in Byron. He has too much talent, had a shitty supporting cast in Jacksonville and is young enough that we can forget about this Croyle experiment.

OnTheWarpath58
08-31-2007, 04:49 PM
I think that out of all the teams in the league, the fact he mentioned us as needing a quarterback rather than mentioning the likes of Atlanta or Minnesota, pretty much tells me that we've hit rock bottom in the eyes of the national media.

He's the ONLY one I've seen/heard mention KC.

Both ESPN and NFLN have mentioned Atlanta every time they report the story.

Minnesota makes more sense than Atlanta, IMO.

arrowheadnation
08-31-2007, 04:50 PM
^^true...maybe I should edit it to say that, I'm just sad that we're even included in these types of conversations. It's a horrible situation to be in.

Basileus777
08-31-2007, 04:52 PM
He's the ONLY one I've seen/heard mention KC.

Both ESPN and NFLN have mentioned Atlanta every time they report the story.

Minnesota makes more sense than Atlanta, IMO.

I don't if Minnesota is a good fit either. I really can't imagine Leftwich succeeding in Childress' West Coast Offense.

Atlanta makes sense, especially because they have no one behind Harrington. Baltimore could also be a possibility. I know Ozzie Newsome wanted to draft Byron and Leftwich is also from that area.

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 04:56 PM
He has to be interested in Byron. He has too much talent, had a shitty supporting cast in Jacksonville and is young enough that we can forget about this Croyle experiment.

Yeah, let's just forget about Croyle. I mean, he has lost a whole bunch....of.......regular......season....games......err, never mind. Let's actually DEVELOP the kid.

RP_McMurphy
08-31-2007, 04:58 PM
As a Jaguar fan do you really want him? His workout's mainly consist of Biscuits and then Gravy. He makes Mike Sweeney look like Cal Ripken with his injury problems.

The Bad Guy
08-31-2007, 05:00 PM
Yeah, let's just forget about Croyle. I mean, he has lost a whole bunch....of.......regular......season....games......err, never mind. Let's actually DEVELOP the kid.

I didn't expect Brodie Croyle to come out in the preseason and look like a world beater.

I expected an efficient QB.

I didn't see that. I saw someone hold the ball far too long, someone who made horrid mistakes and someone confused by defenses even with a completely simplied vanilla schemes on both sides.

OnTheWarpath58
08-31-2007, 05:02 PM
I don't if Minnesota is a good fit either. I really can't imagine Leftwich succeeding in Childress' West Coast Offense.

Atlanta makes sense, especially because they have no one behind Harrington. Baltimore could also be a possibility. I know Ozzie Newsome wanted to draft Byron and Leftwich is also from that area.

Personally, I don't see him succeeding anywhere.

I'm sure what all the fuss is about.

My thought about Minnesota was based on the fact he could start there quickly. Harrington has looked good this PS from what I've seen, and I doubt ATL puts that pressure on him. He's doing well without it.

Baltimore? Barring injury to McNair, I wouldn't expect him to see the field for 2 years. Then he's almost 30.

Plus, they have the greatest QBOTF of them all in Troy Smith.....:rolleyes:

Mr. Laz
08-31-2007, 05:03 PM
Leftwich has too much of a wind-up with his throwing motion. It allows defenses to react and means leftwich has to make his reads that much faster.

quick release and strong arm makes everything easier

Micjones
08-31-2007, 05:03 PM
Croyle was drafted in the Third Round.
Can we come back to Earth people?
Stop pretending like he was taken 20th overall and the organization owes him this huge commitment.

The kid wasn't that good in college even.

And let's also stop pretending we have a staff in place that can effectively develop a young QB. Did that ever occur to anyone?

Solari's an offensive line coach masquerading as an OC, Herman Edwards is an HC with defensive sensibilities and Dick Curl's only seen success in NFL Europe.

BCD
08-31-2007, 05:04 PM
He has to be interested in Byron. He has too much talent, had a shitty supporting cast in Jacksonville and is young enough that we can forget about this Croyle experiment.Yay! Lets try out someone else's cast-off, because we're too stupid to develop our own...
:shake: :rolleyes:

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 05:04 PM
I didn't expect Brodie Croyle to come out in the preseason and look like a world beater.

I expected an efficient QB.

I didn't see that. I saw someone hold the ball far too long, someone who made horrid mistakes and someone confused by defenses even with a completely simplied vanilla schemes on both sides.

Bear in mind that out offensive line is average (and I am being generous) and he is inexperienced in real time action in the NFL at NFL speed. He needs to take his lumps and learn from them. I honestly can't fathom what this organization has against developing a QB rather than throwing some retread out there so we can remain mediocre. I would rather we suck for a year or two and then be good than be constantly average.

BCD
08-31-2007, 05:06 PM
Croyle was drafted in the Third Round.
Can we come back to Earth people?
Stop pretending like he was taken 20th overall and the organization owes him this huge commitment.

The kid wasn't that good in college even.
Sheesh...I bet the Patriots wish they'd have taken this advice with Brady... :rolleyes:

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 05:07 PM
Croyle was drafted in the Third Round.
Can we come back to Earth people?
Stop pretending like he was taken 20th overall and the organization owes him this huge commitment.

The kid wasn't that good in college even.
Sheesh...

What exactly is your point? What round was a Tom Brady taken in? Was he highly touted coming out of college?

Micjones
08-31-2007, 05:07 PM
I bet the Patriots wish they'd have taken this advice with Brady... :rolleyes:

God knows Herman Edwards and Mike Solari are comparable to Belichick and Charlie Weis.
:rolleyes:

I'm sorry what was your point again?
Giving him the opportunity isn't what made Brady.
He had the talent. And a great coaching staff to help cultivate that talent.

This staff all but handed the starting job to Brodie Croyle and he still couldn't secure it with a only another inexperienced player and a journeyman QB behind him. I mean... Damn...

'Hamas' Jenkins
08-31-2007, 05:08 PM
I had Leftwich's cousin in a class I taught two years ago. She was lazy and a quitter. He's from the same mold

;)

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 05:08 PM
I bet the Patriots wish they'd have taken this advice with Brady... :rolleyes:

Dear Lord, do we have some kind of link in the 'Force'? LMAO

Micjones
08-31-2007, 05:10 PM
What exactly is your point? What round was a Tom Brady taken in? Was he highly touted coming out of college?

What in God's name does that have to do with Brodie Croyle?
You can't look use "exception to the rule" situations as ideology for running your own football team.

BCD
08-31-2007, 05:11 PM
I'm sorry what was your point again?
Giving him the opportunity isn't what made Brady.
He had the talent. And a great coaching staff to help cultivate that talent.

This staff all but handed the starting job to Brodie Croyle and he still couldn't secure it with a only another inexperienced player and a journeyman QB behind him. I mean... Damn...How do you know he DOESNT have the talent? You could see all this in 6 quarters of play?

OnTheWarpath58
08-31-2007, 05:12 PM
God knows Herman Edwards and Mike Solari are comparable to Belichick and Charlie Weis.
:rolleyes:

I'm sorry what was your point again?
Giving him the opportunity isn't what made Brady.
He had the talent. And a great coaching staff to help cultivate that talent.

This staff all but handed the starting job to Brodie Croyle and he still couldn't secure it with a only another inexperienced player and a journeyman QB behind him. I mean... Damn...

What?

Brady had so much obvious talent that 31 other teams passed on him 5 times?

Opportunity is EXACTLY what made Brady.

Without Mo Lewis almost killing Drew Bledsoe, the Pats would have at LEAST one less Lombardi Trophy, because they were determined to sit him behind Bledsoe.

BCD
08-31-2007, 05:13 PM
What in God's name does that have to do with Brodie Croyle?
You can't look use "exception to the rule" situations as ideology for running your own football team. :rolleyes: ROFL

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 05:13 PM
What in God's name does that have to do with Brodie Croyle?
You can't look use "exception to the rule" situations as ideology for running your own football team.

I can't? You just posted that he (Brodie) was 'only drafted in the third round' and didnt exactly light the world on fire in college but Tom Brady isn't a good counterargument? A dude drafted in the 6th effing round?

veist
08-31-2007, 05:13 PM
Brady was drafted 199th overall in the 6th round.

Micjones
08-31-2007, 05:16 PM
How do you know he DOESNT have the talent? You could see all this in 6 quarters of play?

He has the talent, but that won't mean Jack Squat if his God awful decision-making doesn't improve.

I'm just sick of hearing this sense of entitlement that we owe the world to Brodie Croyle. Especially after they rolled the red carpet out and basically handed the guy the damn job. He still laid a big stink nugget.

I'm sorry, but that just doesn't give me much confidence.
In the most important game of his career (Pre-Season Game 3) he laid an egg.

That might make you salivate, but it tells me he's not ready.

OnTheWarpath58
08-31-2007, 05:16 PM
What in God's name does that have to do with Brodie Croyle?
You can't look use "exception to the rule" situations as ideology for running your own football team.

I think the point is this:

Being a high draft choice doesn't guarantee success. Carr, Couch and Leaf come to mind.

Being a lower round draft choice doesn't guarantee failure. Montana and Brady come to mind.

You never know what you have until he PLAYS in games that COUNT.

Micjones
08-31-2007, 05:17 PM
I can't? You just posted that he (Brodie) was 'only drafted in the third round' and didnt exactly light the world on fire in college but Tom Brady isn't a good counterargument? A dude drafted in the 6th effing round?

Tom Brady is one of the best two QB's of the last decade.
To use that as a gauge for how we should handle Croyle (since he too was a mid-to-late round selection) is silly.

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 05:18 PM
He has the talent, but that won't mean Jack Squat if his God awful decision-making doesn't improve.

I'm just sick of hearing this sense of entitlement that we owe the world to Brodie Croyle. Especially after they rolled the red carpet out and basically handed the guy the damn job. He still laid a big stink nugget.

I'm sorry, but that just doesn't give me much confidence.
In the most important game of his career (Pre-Season Game 3) he laid an egg.

That might make you salivate, but it tells me he's not ready.

DUH. We KNOW he isn't ready. But that is no reason to shitcan him after 6 freaking quarters. He needs to be DE-VEL-OPED. That takes time.

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 05:19 PM
I think the point is this:

Being a high draft choice doesn't guarantee success. Carr, Couch and Leaf come to mind.

Being a lower round draft choice doesn't guarantee failure. Montana and Brady come to mind.

You never know what you have until he PLAYS in games that COUNT.

Finally, some levity. Rep.

OnTheWarpath58
08-31-2007, 05:19 PM
He has the talent, but that won't mean Jack Squat if his God awful decision-making doesn't improve.

I'm just sick of hearing this sense of entitlement that we owe the world to Brodie Croyle. Especially after they rolled the red carpet out and basically handed the guy the damn job. He still laid a big stink nugget.

I'm sorry, but that just doesn't give me much confidence.
In the most important game of his career (Pre-Season Game 3) he laid an egg.

That might make you salivate, but it tells me he's not ready.

Peyton Manning's decision making was ABYSMAL his rookie year.

28 INT's.

Know how his decision making improved?

They kept playing him.

There is no substitute for game experience.

BCD
08-31-2007, 05:21 PM
He has the talent, but that won't mean Jack Squat if his God awful decision-making doesn't improve.

I'm just sick of hearing this sense of entitlement that we owe the world to Brodie Croyle. Especially after they rolled the red carpet out and basically handed the guy the damn job. He still laid a big stink nugget.

I'm sorry, but that just doesn't give me much confidence.
In the most important game of his career (Pre-Season Game 3) he laid an egg.

That might make you salivate, but it tells me he's not ready.Again, SIX ****IN QUARTERS. How is that rolling out the red carpet, as you put it.

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 05:22 PM
Peyton Manning's decision making was ABYSMAL his rookie year.

28 INT's.

Know how his decision making improved?

They kept playing him.

There is no substitute for game experience.

Not only him, remember how effed up Brett Favre was his first year? He turned out to be a real shitbird too di'nt he?

The Bad Guy
08-31-2007, 05:23 PM
Yay! Lets try out someone else's cast-off, because we're too stupid to develop our own...
:shake: :rolleyes:

This organization hasn't developed a QB in roughly 3 decades. Why am I going to trust they can now?

BCD
08-31-2007, 05:24 PM
Tom Brady is one of the best two QB's of the last decade.
To use that as a gauge for how we should handle Croyle (since he too was a mid-to-late round selection) is silly.No its NOT. Brady was given an opportunity, and took advantage of it. Croyle playing in 6 quarters is NOT.

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 05:25 PM
This organization hasn't developed a QB in roughly 3 decades. Why am I going to trust they can now?

I agree with you there. I just get wound up when people suggest that we should continue to throw QB projects on the shitheap without making a good faith effort to develop them. We have done that for far too long.

The Bad Guy
08-31-2007, 05:26 PM
I bet the Patriots wish they'd have taken this advice with Brady... :rolleyes:

Nice reach.

You know who Brodie Croyle reminds me of?

David Carr.

Holds the ball too long, makes awful reads and is effective roughly 2-5 yards down the field.

Damon Huard was absolutey pitiful during the preseason and all Croyle had to do was manage the offense, not dominate, manage and he would have been a starter.

And he couldn't do that.

I have very, very little faith that this guy has the tools to be a good NFL QB, let alone someone who can take the Chiefs to the promise land.

You want to develop this guy, fine. But I wasn't impressed in college and I'm less impressed now.

BCD
08-31-2007, 05:26 PM
This organization hasn't developed a QB in roughly 3 decades. Why am I going to trust they can now?
:clap:

Mr. Laz
08-31-2007, 05:26 PM
God knows Herman Edwards and Mike Solari are comparable to Belichick and Charlie Weis.
:rolleyes:
.

exacty ..... this is more about the coaching than what round.


a good organization can find and develop talent in any round.

BCD
08-31-2007, 05:26 PM
Nice reach.

You know who Brodie Croyle reminds me of?

David Carr.

Holds the ball too long, makes awful reads and is effective roughly 2-5 yards down the field.

Damon Huard was absolutey pitiful during the preseason and all Croyle had to do was manage the offense, not dominate, manage and he would have been a starter.

And he couldn't do that.

I have very, very little faith that this guy has the tools to be a good NFL QB, let alone someone who can take the Chiefs to the promise land.

You want to develop this guy, fine. But I wasn't impressed in college and I'm less impressed now.Oh, here we go...

OnTheWarpath58
08-31-2007, 05:27 PM
I agree with you there. I just get wound up when people suggest that we should continue to throw QB projects on the shitheap without making a good faith effort to develop them. We have done that for far too long.

I read a thread like this and then wonder why our franchise doesn't have the patience to develop a quarterback.

Cochise
08-31-2007, 05:27 PM
I don't think having a guy with chronic injury problems is going to help us settle the QB situation for the future.

The Bad Guy
08-31-2007, 05:28 PM
I agree with you there. I just get wound up when people suggest that we should continue to throw QB projects on the shitheap without making a good faith effort to develop them. We have done that for far too long.

We have, but there's something about Croyle's decision making that leaves me to believe he doesn't have it.

It's just my opinion, so everyone can stop getting worked up, but I didn't understand why the Chiefs basically were handing the keys to the franchise, downscaling the playbook, and making him the favorite heading into training camp when he never impressed me at all in college.

The Bad Guy
08-31-2007, 05:28 PM
I don't think having a guy with chronic injury problems is going to help us settle the QB situation for the future.

Like Brodie Croyle?

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 05:29 PM
I don't think having a guy with chronic injury problems is going to help us settle the QB situation for the future.

Do you remember WHY he was injured bro? Because he got clobbered by an AWFUL lack of protection. Yet he still managed to perform pretty well.

The Bad Guy
08-31-2007, 05:30 PM
Oh, here we go...

It's not here we go.

The Patriots didn't need to have patience with Brady because he produced immediately when he had a shot.

Everyone is so blood thirsty for a young QB that you will take anyone under the age of 25 regardless of talent.

Cochise
08-31-2007, 05:31 PM
Like Brodie Croyle?

Maybe so.

I agree with you on Croyle, that right now it looks like he has no business being an NFL QB.

If I were running the team, we'd play him to see if he can show us anything this year. If there's no improvement, then next year we go in another direction. If he rides pine all year then we're back in the same place next year. We won't know if he will ever get better.

Cochise
08-31-2007, 05:31 PM
Do you remember WHY he was injured bro? Because he got clobbered by an AWFUL lack of protection.

Oh, well, bring him in here, it'll obviously be totally different...

Mr. Laz
08-31-2007, 05:32 PM
Nice reach.

You know who Brodie Croyle reminds me of?

David Carr.

Holds the ball too long, makes awful reads and is effective roughly 2-5 yards down the field.

Damon Huard was absolutey pitiful during the preseason and all Croyle had to do was manage the offense, not dominate, manage and he would have been a starter.

And he couldn't do that.
and you've reached that conclusion after 50 preseason snaps?


well dam ... cut Croyle and hire you as a scout, cause we're GOING TO THE SUPER BOWL!!

The Bad Guy
08-31-2007, 05:32 PM
Oh, well, bring him in here, it'll obviously be totally different...

I think he's talking about Brodie in college.

I think Brodie gets clobbered because he holds the ball forever. It's like David Carr-lite.

The Bad Guy
08-31-2007, 05:33 PM
and you've reached that conclusion after 50 preseason snaps?


well dam ... cut Croyle and hire you as a scout, cause we're GOING TO THE SUPER BOWL!!

You explain to me how he has looked consistently awful in all 4 games against basic schemes.

Yes, there is a maturation process, but some of his reads made Elvis Grbac look like Peyton Manning.

BCD
08-31-2007, 05:33 PM
It's not here we go.

The Patriots didn't need to have patience with Brady because he produced immediately when he had a shot.

Everyone is so blood thirsty for a young QB that you will take anyone under the age of 25 regardless of talent.So, you seem to know it all. Which NFL team do you scout for?
:rolleyes:

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 05:34 PM
Oh, well, bring him in here, it'll obviously be totally different...

LMAO LMAO LMAO

Good point dude.

Still, he has to get some seasoning under fire. Why not let him do it while we KNOW we aren't going to the SB? Dangit, sacrifice a year and let the rooks play a bit and work the kinks out.

OnTheWarpath58
08-31-2007, 05:34 PM
It's not here we go.

The Patriots didn't need to have patience with Brady because he produced immediately when he had a shot.

Everyone is so blood thirsty for a young QB that you will take anyone under the age of 25 regardless of talent.

Brady's first 3 games after Bledsoe's injury:

5-10, 46 yards

13-23, 168 yards

12-24, 86 yards.


New England should have given up on him.......

Micjones
08-31-2007, 05:37 PM
Peyton Manning's decision making was ABYSMAL his rookie year.

28 INT's.

Let's not talk about the 26 TD's he threw.

Know how his decision making improved?

They kept playing him.

And that couldn't have been because he had the best rookie campaign at that position (he set 5 different NFL rookie records) in the history of the NFL could it?

The Bad Guy
08-31-2007, 05:37 PM
So, you seem to know it all. Which NFL team do you scout for?
:rolleyes:

You seem to be willing to hand over the franchise to someone who couldn't compete against 2nd and 3rd string NFL talent.

The Chiefs scaled down the playbook, gave him every chance to beat out an injured older player, and he couldn't do it.

All he had to do was not **** up. He didn't have to be even good. He had to be mediocre and he couldn't do that.

I love how someone has the opinion that Croyle never will amount to anything, and the "what team do you scout for" question comes up.

the Talking Can
08-31-2007, 05:38 PM
only the Chiefs would draft a QB, never let him start a SINGLE NFL game, give him 50 snaps in preseason with a shitty OL, shitty WRs, no LJ - the same OL behind which Huard looked like dog crap - and then declare him a bust and move on to yet another Vet retread...

all with the blessing of their fan base....Carl is a god damn master...

BCD
08-31-2007, 05:41 PM
You seem to be willing to hand over the franchise to someone who couldn't compete against 2nd and 3rd string NFL talent.

The Chiefs scaled down the playbook, gave him every chance to beat out an injured older player, and he couldn't do it.

All he had to do was not **** up. He didn't have to be even good. He had to be mediocre and he couldn't do that.

I love how someone has the opinion that Croyle never will amount to anything, and the "what team do you scout for" question comes up.6 quarters in preseason. Not nearly enough. I suppose you failed to see the dropped passes.

Micjones
08-31-2007, 05:41 PM
And just so we stop comparing Croyle's situation to the early-goings for Peyton Manning and Tom Brady...

They BOTH had STRONG SHOWINGS in the pre-seasons preceding their first full years, as QB, in the NFL.

Brady actually BEAT Huard out to win the job in New England.

Croyle couldn't do that. And Damon Huard is now 7 years older than he was when Brady beat him to the punch.

Sure... Let's roll the red carpet out for Brodie Croyle.

COMEDY!!!

Mr. Laz
08-31-2007, 05:41 PM
You explain to me how he has looked consistently awful in all 4 games against basic schemes.

Yes, there is a maturation process, but some of his reads made Elvis Grbac look like Peyton Manning.
it's way too early to reach any conclusions other than our offensive coaching staff is weak.

i might be more inclined to judge Croyle if he had been the only one who was sucking ...... but he wasn't, the entire offense stunk out loud.

the Oline couldn't block
the WR's couldn't catch
the playing calling was schizophrenic at best
they all looked to be ill-prepared and confused


the other QB's looked pretty crappy too. The only time the QB's showed anything at all was late in the game when terrell started flinging it and late in the game with Printers starter scrambling for his life.

hardly a ringing endorsement for the entire offense ... not just Croyle.

The Bad Guy
08-31-2007, 05:42 PM
only the Chiefs would draft a QB, never let him start a SINGLE NFL game, give him 50 snaps in preseason with a shitty OL, shitty WRs, no LJ - the same OL behind which Huard looked like dog crap - and then declare him a bust and move on to yet another Vet retread...

all with the blessing of their fan base....Carl is a god damn master...

Do I really trust Dick Curl, Herman Edwards and Mike Solari to turn Brodie Croyle into a QB this organization can rely on for 10 years?

Absolutely not.

Brodie would have to have Peyton's IQ, Vick's arm, and McNabb's lower torso for that to happen.

BCD
08-31-2007, 05:43 PM
only the Chiefs would draft a QB, never let him start a SINGLE NFL game, give him 50 snaps in preseason with a shitty OL, shitty WRs, no LJ - the same OL behind which Huard looked like dog crap - and then declare him a bust and move on to yet another Vet retread...

all with the blessing of their fan base....Carl is a god damn master...We were wrong all along. Listen to Bad Guy, Brodie was obviously a bust way back in utero.

OnTheWarpath58
08-31-2007, 05:43 PM
Let's not talk about the 26 TD's he threw.



And that couldn't have been because he had the best rookie campaign at that position (he set 5 different NFL rookie records) in the history of the NFL could it?

Or let's just get back to the point.

You don't get better in this league by sitting on the bench.

As an organization, you'll never know what you have in a player until you've given him significant playing time.

Tom Brady couldn't beat out Drew Bledsoe? He must suck. Good thing Bledsoe got hurt, otherwise it may have been another season or two before Brady got his shot.

Kurt Warner couldn't beat out Trent Green? He must suck. Good thing Trent got hurt, otherwise he may have NEVER gotten his shot.

What about the teams who "gave up" on Marc Bulger? Kid never played a regular season game, was cut based on PS performance, then gets his chance with the Rams and is a Top 5 QB.

The Bad Guy
08-31-2007, 05:44 PM
We were wrong all along. Listen to Bad Guy, Brodie was obviously a bust way back in utero.

We can all dig up this thread in 3 years when Brodie is still holding a clipboard on the sideline.

Please tell me one thing Brodie Croyle has done to warrant all this praise.

BCD
08-31-2007, 05:44 PM
Brady actually BEAT Huard out to win the job in New England.

LMAO

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 05:45 PM
only the Chiefs would draft a QB, never let him start a SINGLE NFL game, give him 50 snaps in preseason with a shitty OL, shitty WRs, no LJ - the same OL behind which Huard looked like dog crap - and then declare him a bust and move on to yet another Vet retread...

all with the blessing of their fan base....Carl is a god damn master...

No kidding bro. You could put Joe Montana behind a shitty OL, with shitty WR and with an (at best) second rate RB and he would perform poorly.

BCD
08-31-2007, 05:46 PM
Vick's armWell, you lost all credibilty right there...

the Talking Can
08-31-2007, 05:46 PM
Do I really trust Dick Curl, Herman Edwards and Mike Solari to turn Brodie Croyle into a QB this organization can rely on for 10 years?

Absolutely not.

Brodie would have to have Peyton's IQ, Vick's arm, and McNabb's lower torso for that to happen.

you don't know JACK SHIT unless you give him a chance....

this is ****ing IDIOTIC

Carl has Chiefs fans so addicted to mediocrity that they are afraid to take any risks at all....I ****ing hate this loser franchise with a passion...figures god would make me a chiefs fan, you'd think I boned God's wife....

arrowheadnation
08-31-2007, 05:47 PM
I'm gonna say this because when I make predictions, the exact opposite usually happens...so here goes....

ROFL ROFL ROFL at you people picking one example out of hundreds of picks from the past however many drafts and thinking that it will happen again with us and in the person of Brodie Croyle. This happens once in a blue moon, and face it, we're not that lucky.

Ok...I'm done.

OnTheWarpath58
08-31-2007, 05:47 PM
And just so we stop comparing Croyle's situation to the early-goings for Peyton Manning and Tom Brady...

They BOTH had STRONG SHOWINGS in the pre-seasons preceding their first full years, as QB, in the NFL.

Brady actually BEAT Huard out to win the job in New England.

Croyle couldn't do that. And Damon Huard is now 7 years older than he was when Brady beat him to the punch.

Sure... Let's roll the red carpet out for Brodie Croyle.

COMEDY!!!

Of course he beat out Huard.....he just won the ****ing SB the year before.

The year he would have NEVER seen the field had Bledsoe not gotten hurt.

And I'd like to see a link with Brady and Manning's preseason stats their rookie year.......

BCD
08-31-2007, 05:49 PM
We can all dig up this thread in 3 years when Brodie is still holding a clipboard on the sideline.

Please tell me one thing Brodie Croyle has done to warrant all this praise.Praise? I just want him to get some REAL playing time during a REAL game with all the starters.

OnTheWarpath58
08-31-2007, 05:51 PM
We can all dig up this thread in 3 years when Brodie is still holding a clipboard on the sideline.

Please tell me one thing Brodie Croyle has done to warrant all this praise.

This has a lot less to do with Brodie Croyle and MUCH more to do with the organizations chickenshit attitude when it comes to the future of the franchise.

Don't come bitching when we go 8-8 this year, then NEXT year we go through the growing pains of Croyle.

We have nothing to lose by going through those pains THIS year.

We have everything to gain by finding out NOW whether he can cut it or not.

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 05:52 PM
Praise? I just want him to get some REAL playing time during a REAL game with all the starters.

No kidding. WTF is a rookie supposed to do with all the cards stacked against him? GIVE THE KID A CHANCE.

tomahawk kid
08-31-2007, 05:54 PM
:grouphug:

Micjones
08-31-2007, 05:55 PM
Or let's just get back to the point.

You don't get better in this league by sitting on the bench.

I'm guessing that's why he was given an opportunity to play this pre-season?

Tom Brady couldn't beat out Drew Bledsoe? He must suck. Good thing Bledsoe got hurt, otherwise it may have been another season or two before Brady got his shot.

Who was Tom Brady's HC?
Who was Tom Brady's OC?

Kurt Warner couldn't beat out Trent Green? He must suck. Good thing Trent got hurt, otherwise he may have NEVER gotten his shot.

Who was Kurt Warner's HC?
Who was Kurt Warner's OC?

What about the teams who "gave up" on Marc Bulger? Kid never played a regular season game, was cut based on PS performance, then gets his chance with the Rams and is a Top 5 QB.

Who was Marc Bulger's HC?
Who was Marc Bulger's OC?

You wanna argue that we should allow Croyle to take his lumps and see how well he fares when real bullets are flying around? Fine...

But you're giving far too much credit to a staff to develop a guy, who thus far hasn't shown much. He needs development to be sure. What makes you so confident that our current staff is equipped to develop him?

And again, you're glossing over the fact that both Manning and Brady played well in the pre-seasons preceding their coming out parties.

Replacing a starter who goes down is a spur of the moment thing.
It's not a conscious decision. You go with what you have.
Just so happens in Warner/Brady/Bulger's case they found gems...

Croyle's situation is a bit different me thinks.

Micjones
08-31-2007, 05:57 PM
you don't know JACK SHIT unless you give him a chance....

Well what the hell was this pre-season?
I mean... I could've sworn it's the period where they EVALUATE players.

Carl has Chiefs fans so addicted to mediocrity that they are afraid to take any risks at all....

Riiiiight....
Because starting a journeyman QB isn't risky...
Because we aren't playing young guys elsewhere...

No, THIS is idiotic.

Micjones
08-31-2007, 05:58 PM
And I'd like to see a link with Brady and Manning's preseason stats their rookie year.......

I've been digging OTW.
Hard to find them that far back.
I'll keep trying.

OnTheWarpath58
08-31-2007, 06:05 PM
I'm guessing that's why he was given an opportunity to play this pre-season?



Who was Tom Brady's HC?
Who was Tom Brady's OC?



Who was Kurt Warner's HC?
Who was Kurt Warner's OC?



Who was Marc Bulger's HC?
Who was Marc Bulger's OC?

You wanna argue that we should allow Croyle to take his lumps and see how well he fares when real bullets are flying around? Fine...

But you're giving far too much credit to a staff to develop a guy, who thus far hasn't shown much. He needs development to be sure. What makes you so confident that our current staff is equipped to develop him?

And again, you're glossing over the fact that both Manning and Brady played well in the pre-seasons preceding their coming out parties.

Replacing a starter who goes down is a spur of the moment thing.
It's not a conscious decision. You go with what you have.
Just so happens in Warner/Brady/Bulger's case they found gems...

Croyle's situation is a bit different me thinks.

First bolded comment: With no LT, no LJ, 3rd stringers being cycled in, no gameplanning, WR dropping balls like it was their job.

I'd like to see the kid with a full arsenal when the games count before I quit on him.

Second bolded comment: Who's to say THEY CAN'T develop the kid?

They aren't being given the chance either.

You're GUESSING as to what you THINK is going to happen, based on the past.

Until he gets significant playing time, no one will know FOR SURE.

Skip Towne
08-31-2007, 06:26 PM
Let's not talk about the 26 TD's he threw.



And that couldn't have been because he had the best rookie campaign at that position (he set 5 different NFL rookie records) in the history of the NFL could it?
And he threw 26 TD's again the next year but cut his INT's to 15. Only 1 year of experience made that much difference. But you have to let them have the experience. They can't get it riding the pine.

Deberg_1990
08-31-2007, 06:30 PM
Never been impressed with Leftwich much. Hes has a slower release than Huard with that Major League windup of his. Just say no to other teams trash.

TEX
08-31-2007, 07:17 PM
Herm is such the DUMBASS. :shake:

DaneMcCloud
08-31-2007, 07:24 PM
What exactly is your point? What round was a Tom Brady taken in? Was he highly touted coming out of college?

I bet the Patriots wish they'd have taken this advice with Brady... :rolleyes:

TWO MORE STUPID STATEMENTS!!!

Hey, Genuises, name ONE other QB taken in the 6th round that went on to win the Super Bowl OR a playoff game!

Tom Brady didn't SET a precedent. He was THE BEST 6th round find of ALL-TIME.

To compare him to any other lower round draft choice is STUPID.

DaneMcCloud
08-31-2007, 07:25 PM
What?

Brady had so much obvious talent that 31 other teams passed on him 5 times?

Opportunity is EXACTLY what made Brady.

Without Mo Lewis almost killing Drew Bledsoe, the Pats would have at LEAST one less Lombardi Trophy, because they were determined to sit him behind Bledsoe.

Bullshit. TALENT is what made Tom Brady. Not opportunity.

Deberg_1990
08-31-2007, 07:26 PM
Hey, Genuises, name ONE other QB taken in the 6th round that went on to win the Super Bowl OR a playoff game!



Brad Johnson. Round 9.

DaneMcCloud
08-31-2007, 07:28 PM
you don't know JACK SHIT unless you give him a chance....

this is ****ing IDIOTIC

Carl has Chiefs fans so addicted to mediocrity that they are afraid to take any risks at all....I ****ing hate this loser franchise with a passion...figures god would make me a chiefs fan, you'd think I boned God's wife....

What's idiotic is people thinking that after Brodie Croyle's absolutely pathetic showing in the preseason, he should be given a chance to start regular season games TO LEARN.

Obviously, the hasn't hasn't LEARNED enough in OTA's, training camp or preseason games to make sound decisions on the field.

And you think that throwing on the field against a D-line like the Texans or the defense of the Bears will teach him anything?

That's very foolish notion.

TRR
08-31-2007, 07:28 PM
I'll go on record as saying I would love for KC to sign Leftwich. I liked him in college, and I like him today. I've thought from the beginning that Jax has tried to make him into something he is not, instead of trying to make the offense into something that fits his strengths.

However, I also feel the same way about David Carr and Joey Harrington as well. So take my opinion FWIW.

DaneMcCloud
08-31-2007, 07:29 PM
Brad Johnson. Round 9.

Nice find. Though it did take him until age 36 to win a Super Bowl.

Are the Chiefs and their fans willing to give Brodie Croyle 12 more years?

But as we know, late round QB's that have a major impact in the NFL are not common, whatsoever.

Especially when they're young.

DaKCMan AP
08-31-2007, 07:32 PM
Brad Johnson. Round 9.

Kurt Warner, undrafted

Deberg_1990
08-31-2007, 07:35 PM
Are the Chiefs and their fans willing to give Brodie Croyle 12 more years?



LOL. Chiefs fans and Carl dont even give young QB's a full preseason to prove themselves.

DaKCMan AP
08-31-2007, 07:35 PM
TWO MORE STUPID STATEMENTS!!!

Hey, Genuises, name ONE other QB taken in the 6th round that went on to win the Super Bowl OR a playoff game!

Matt Hasselbeck (6th rd) got his team to a SB.

Micjones
08-31-2007, 07:35 PM
You aren't going to find many QB's taken that low who've gone on to the type of NFL success some of us are expecting Croyle to have.

Deberg_1990
08-31-2007, 07:35 PM
Kurt Warner, undrafted

Anything is possible.

DaneMcCloud
08-31-2007, 07:35 PM
Kurt Warner, undrafted

Neither Kurt Warner nor Brad Johnson succeeded until after they had been in NFL Europe and in Johnson's case, after he'd been with more than a few football teams.

Neither were 24 when they had success in the NFL. It took years and year of seasoning before either was ready to successfully start for an NFL football team.

You're comparing apples and oranges.

DaKCMan AP
08-31-2007, 07:36 PM
Matt Hasselbeck (6th rd) got his team to a SB.

Jake Delhomme (undrafted) got his team to a SB.

DaneMcCloud
08-31-2007, 07:37 PM
Jake Delhomme (undrafted) got his team to a SB.

And how old was he?

Deberg_1990
08-31-2007, 07:38 PM
Neither were 24 when they had success in the NFL. It took years and year of seasoning before either was ready to successfully start for an NFL football team.



Thats not true with Johnson's case. He was a good QB for a number of years with the Vikings and Redskins.

Warner was just one of those Fluky Cinderella stories. He was basically a rookie (2nd season in NFL) in that 99 year.

DaneMcCloud
08-31-2007, 07:43 PM
Thats not true with Johnson's case. He was a good QB for a number of years with the Vikings and Redskins.

Really?

1992 0 games played
1993 0 games played
1994 4 games played QB rating of 68.5
1995 5 games played QB rating of 68.3
1996 8 games played QB rating of 89.4
1997 13 games played QB rating of 84.5
1998 4 games played QB rating of 89


So as you can clearly see from the stats, Johnson really didn't become an efficient QB in the NFL until 5th full season.

Are the Chiefs and their fans willing to give Croyle that long?

Chiefnj2
08-31-2007, 07:45 PM
I agree with you there. I just get wound up when people suggest that we should continue to throw QB projects on the shitheap without making a good faith effort to develop them. We have done that for far too long.

It's not going to change when Carl and Herm have 2 years left (2008 and 2009).

Deberg_1990
08-31-2007, 07:48 PM
Are the Chiefs and their fans willing to give Croyle that long?

No, of course not. I posted earlier that fans and Carl didnt even give him a full preseason.


Chiefs fans have zero patience. In turn Carl has zero patience because he gets visions of empty seats. Its a vicious cycle....

L.A. Chieffan
08-31-2007, 07:52 PM
Look growing our very own QBOTF from draft pick to SuperBowl MVP is better said than done. There A LOT of teams that have drafted QBs in the 1st round with the highest of expectations only to have them completely flame out. Not even counting Brady there are many QB's who nobody gave two sheets about that became Super Bowl QB's.
Personally I think winning a Super Bowl is A LOT more complicated than just having a REALLY good QB.

Ultra Peanut
08-31-2007, 08:00 PM
The beauty of having Leftwich back there is that nothing short of being hit with a rocket-propelled grenade could knock him out of the game.

NaptownChief
08-31-2007, 08:00 PM
The only thing longer and more painful than Carl Peterson's stay in Kansas City is Leftwich's delivery.

The Jags would be fortunate to get a couple of used footballs and jock straps for him. And I for one wouldn't give that for him even if the balls were off balance and the jock straps didn't fit well.

NaptownChief
08-31-2007, 08:03 PM
The beauty of having Leftwich back there is that nothing short of being hit with a rocket-propelled grenade could knock him out of the game.


I realize the media had to pass the "toughest SOB in the NFL" label off to some other undeserving QB but let's not let the worn out footage of him being carried at Marshall distort reality too much. Leftwich has never started a full 16 games yet in his career.

Silock
08-31-2007, 08:14 PM
I'm a Brodie fan, but if we were to get Leftwich, I wouldn't complain. I LOVE that kid's heart and determination.

NaptownChief
08-31-2007, 08:21 PM
Call me crazy but getting a guy who has never even thrown for a measly 3,000 yards in a season before despite being given the keys to the franchise doesn't excite me.

Other than being drafted early, and obviously way too early, there isn't much exciting about this guy.

RJ
08-31-2007, 08:22 PM
The beauty of Brodie Croyle is that, since he's never done anything, he can be whatever we imagine him to be. So if you want to imagine him to be Joe Montana you can, and no one can prove you wrong.

Personally, I imagine him as a less effective version of Kyle Boller which means I would be thrilled to see Leftwich in a Chiefs uniform. If I thought Croyle was our QBOTF I'd want him starting, but I don't so I don't.


edit****A requirement for Leftwich would be that he comes really cheap.

OnTheWarpath58
08-31-2007, 08:24 PM
Bullshit. TALENT is what made Tom Brady. Not opportunity.

Of course he has talent. If scouts thought he had THAT much talent, he would have gone WELL before the late 6th round.

But without the opportunity early, the Pats would have at least one less Lombardi Trophy.

He would have sat his talented ass on the bench for at LEAST one more year, if not two.

No one anticipated he had this kind of talent. He showed it when given a chance in the regular season.

Ultra Peanut
08-31-2007, 08:26 PM
I realize the media had to pass the "toughest SOB in the NFL" label off to some other undeserving QB but let's not let the worn out footage of him being carried at Marshall distort reality too much. Leftwich has never started a full 16 games yet in his career.He was born with no arms and two club feet, you cruel son of a bitch.

OnTheWarpath58
08-31-2007, 08:32 PM
You aren't going to find many QB's taken that low who've gone on to the type of NFL success some of us are expecting Croyle to have.

See, this is the bullshit that wears on me.

I (and many others here) don't know if Brodie is going to be a good, great, bad, average, etc. NFL QB.

I'm not gonna make that assesment based on 6 quarters of PS football.

The kid COULD be the next Peyton Manning.

He COULD be the next Ryan Leaf.

He'll PROBABLY fall somewhere in between.

But we'll never know if we don't play the kid when we're trying to win a regular season game, rather than trying to evaluate every scrub on our roster.

Like I said earlier: (maybe in another thread)

Don't come here bitching after we go 8-8 and we have to go through the Croyle growing pains NEXT year.

OnTheWarpath58
08-31-2007, 08:34 PM
The only thing longer and more painful than Carl Peterson's stay in Kansas City is Leftwich's delivery.

The Jags would be fortunate to get a couple of used footballs and jock straps for him. And I for one wouldn't give that for him even if the balls were off balance and the jock straps didn't fit well.

100% agree.

the Talking Can
08-31-2007, 08:42 PM
What's idiotic is people thinking that after Brodie Croyle's absolutely pathetic showing in the preseason, he should be given a chance to start regular season games TO LEARN.

Obviously, the hasn't hasn't LEARNED enough in OTA's, training camp or preseason games to make sound decisions on the field.

And you think that throwing on the field against a D-line like the Texans or the defense of the Bears will teach him anything?

That's very foolish notion.

this is retarded....

the only fan base in the league that thinks you can draft, "groom", and discard a QB based on the equivalent of 1 1/2 preseason games playing with shit for talent....but you'll get wet for any washed up, never was, career backup that flashes you dick...

you are so far up the ass of mediocrity you can't see....this whole ****ing fanbase is...

the Talking Can
08-31-2007, 08:43 PM
The beauty of having Leftwich back there is that nothing short of being hit with a rocket-propelled grenade could knock him out of the game.

huh?

he is always injured...plus he sucks

Guru
08-31-2007, 08:50 PM
See, this is the bullshit that wears on me.

I (and many others here) don't know if Brodie is going to be a good, great, bad, average, etc. NFL QB.

I'm not gonna make that assesment based on 6 quarters of PS football.

The kid COULD be the next Peyton Manning.

He COULD be the next Ryan Leaf.

He'll PROBABLY fall somewhere in between.

But we'll never know if we don't play the kid when we're trying to win a regular season game, rather than trying to evaluate every scrub on our roster.

Like I said earlier: (maybe in another thread)

Don't come here bitching after we go 8-8 and we have to go through the Croyle growing pains NEXT year.


:clap: :clap: :clap:

Why is this so hard for people to understand?

Chiefnj2
08-31-2007, 08:51 PM
Leftwich or Huard for the next couple of years. I'd take Leftwich.

People on the Crody or "develop a young QB" bandwagon will have to pull for another team until Herm and Carl leaves.

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 08:54 PM
Leftwich or Huard for the next couple of years. I'd take Leftwich.

People on the Crody or "develop a young QB" bandwagon will have to pull for another team until Herm and Carl leaves.

Why Herm AND Carl? Herm gave a young QB MORE than a fair chance and he did OK. It is Carl who hasn't developed a QB since he has been here.

OnTheWarpath58
08-31-2007, 08:58 PM
:clap: :clap: :clap:

Why is this so hard for people to understand?

Because their own agendas get in the way.

It's easier to say he sucks and he's never gonna amount to anything, than accept the risk and find out.

People are comfortable with mediocre football, and can't accept a possible 4-12 or 6-10 season, even if it's best for the franchise long term.

And no one wants to accept that there's the POSSIBILITY that Croyle could win as many games as Huard...people have already designated him a failure, without taking a single regular season snap.

TRR
08-31-2007, 08:59 PM
huh?

he is always injured...plus he sucks

Injuries have really stunted his growth as a QB. He's only played in the league for 4 seasons with a terrible O-Line in front of him. I agree that the injury bug has bitten him, but Leftwich far from sucks. He's got an NFL arm, size, and he picked up the Jax offense pretty quickly. He's been through coaching changes, and offensive philosophy changes, and running back by committee, and Fragile Fred going down every year with nobody behind him....

When it's all said and done, BL will be successful in this league.

Chiefnj2
08-31-2007, 08:59 PM
Why Herm AND Carl? Herm gave a young QB MORE than a fair chance and he did OK. It is Carl who hasn't developed a QB since he has been here.

Why did Herm give Croyle only have 4 lousy attempts last night?

Was Dick Curl really the best option as a QB coach for the kid?

Herm is just as conservative as Carl.

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 09:03 PM
Why did Herm give Croyle only have 4 lousy attempts last night?

Was Dick Curl really the best option as a QB coach for the kid?

Herm is just as conservative as Carl.

Last year we were in the playoffs. This year we won't SNIFF the playoffs. This is the year we need to be working in a new rookie. Like Herm did with the J E T S JETS JETS JETS.

Brock
08-31-2007, 09:04 PM
I don't think he's any better than Huard, except for his age.

Fruit Ninja
08-31-2007, 09:06 PM
I don't think he's any better than Huard, except for his age.
I think he's alot better. He has a cannon for an arm. He's pretty accurate when he has time to throw. Thats the big problem though. Our Oline sucks.

tk13
08-31-2007, 09:07 PM
I agree, I'd just as soon have Huard in there.

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 09:10 PM
I agree, I'd just as soon have Huard in there. Why? So we can remain a mediocre team letting castoffs start for us for another 20 years? At least Brodie would have the chance to prove (behind the starting Oline and using the starting RB and WRs) whether he has the stuff or not.

Mecca
08-31-2007, 09:11 PM
I like how the guy who had 1 alright season and is nothing more than a career backup....that backed up Jay Fiedler at 1 point. Is now considered by some a better option than Byron Leftwich...

Brock
08-31-2007, 09:11 PM
Why? So we can remain a mediocre team letting castoffs start for us for another 20 years? At least Brodie would have the chance to prove (behind the starting Oline and using the starting RB and WRs) whether he has the stuff or not.

The choice here is Huard or Leftwich. Huard vs. Croyle has been decided.

Brock
08-31-2007, 09:12 PM
I like how the guy who had 1 alright season and is nothing more than a career backup....that backed up Jay Fiedler at 1 point. Is now considered by some a better option than Byron Leftwich...

I didn't say better. They'd perform about the same, if Leftwich could even survive for 6 games.

tk13
08-31-2007, 09:13 PM
Why? So we can remain a mediocre team letting castoffs start for us for another 20 years? At least Brodie would have the chance to prove (behind the starting Oline and using the starting RB and WRs) whether he has the stuff or not.
Leftwich. Not Croyle.

OnTheWarpath58
08-31-2007, 09:14 PM
The choice here is Huard or Leftwich. Huard vs. Croyle has been decided.

Huard = 8 wins.

Leftwich = maybe 9 wins.

Yippee.

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 09:15 PM
The choice here is Huard or Leftwich. Huard vs. Croyle has been decided.

I disagree. Leftwich is a waste of space at this point and Huard is a career backup. To me, the only LOGICAL choice to throw out there and get some seasoning is the rookie we spent a 3rd round draft pick on. Either way we aren't going to the playoffs. Get the kid some playing time under real NFL fire and work the kinks out.

Brock
08-31-2007, 09:17 PM
I disagree. Leftwich is a waste of space at this point and Huard is a career backup. To me, the only LOGICAL choice to throw out there and get some seasoning is the rookie we spent a 3rd round draft pick on. Either way we aren't going to the playoffs. Get the kid some playing time under real NFL fire and work the kinks out.

Yeah, well. Not going to happen. Maybe around week 10 when the Chiefs are floundering or something.

alanm
08-31-2007, 09:17 PM
Bullshit. TALENT is what made Tom Brady. Not opportunity.
You could argue both sides and be right. :shrug:

Mecca
08-31-2007, 09:19 PM
No offense to anyones opinion here but if you think Leftwich will get hurt behind this line Croyle would be absolute toast then. Leftwich is injury prone to an extent but not to Brodie Croyles extent, and at least he has size to sustain a hit.

The Chiefs should be looking at any and all options at this point nothing is guaranteed, Croyle may be a total bomb out there.

This roster still needs major overhaul if a few guys get cut that can be better than what we have now especially for the future they should be brought in.

Chiefnj2
08-31-2007, 09:19 PM
I disagree. Leftwich is a waste of space at this point and Huard is a career backup. To me, the only LOGICAL choice to throw out there and get some seasoning is the rookie we spent a 3rd round draft pick on. Either way we aren't going to the playoffs. Get the kid some playing time under real NFL fire and work the kinks out.

Herm wasn't willing to give the kid a chance in the 4th preseason game, do you really think he'll trust him in the regular season?

Logical
08-31-2007, 09:19 PM
Yeah, let's just forget about Croyle. I mean, he has lost a whole bunch....of.......regular......season....games......err, never mind. Let's actually DEVELOP the kid.

I am not saying to give up on Croyle but I would replace Printers with Leftwich in a NY minute.

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 09:20 PM
Yeah, well. Not going to happen. Maybe around week 10 when the Chiefs are floundering or something.

Like we aren't going to be floundering week 4? Only the world's biggest homer or most myopic optimist believes that we have a snowballs chance in hell at making the playoffs this year. We are rebuilding and I embrace it. But dammit, rebuilding means accepting setbacks and that includes problems with a rookie QB.

DaneMcCloud
08-31-2007, 09:22 PM
this is retarded....

the only fan base in the league that thinks you can draft, "groom", and discard a QB based on the equivalent of 1 1/2 preseason games playing with shit for talent....but you'll get wet for any washed up, never was, career backup that flashes you dick...

you are so far up the ass of mediocrity you can't see....this whole ****ing fanbase is...

The only person that has their head up their ass is you.

I didn't EVER state that Croyle should be "discarded". I simply stated that he's not ready NOW to start and WIN as an NFL QB.

Will that ever happen? I don't know. But starting a young QB just for the sake of starting a young QB is STOOPID.

Brock
08-31-2007, 09:22 PM
Like we aren't going to be floundering week 4? Only the world's biggest homer or most myopic optimist believes that we have a snowballs chance in hell at making the playoffs this year. We are rebuilding and I embrace it. But dammit, rebuilding means accepting setbacks and that includes problems with a rookie QB.

I'm not arguing the point. I'm just telling you Croyle isn't going to be playing until later in the season, if at all.

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 09:22 PM
I am not saying to give up on Croyle but I would replace Printers with Leftwich in a NY minute.

I would put my miniature pinscher in a number 00 Chiefs Jersey and replace Printers with her.

Mecca
08-31-2007, 09:24 PM
I wonder what will happen when Damon Huard is you know Damon Huard, last year to me was a total fluke, this should be fun.

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 09:24 PM
Will that ever happen? I don't know. But starting a young QB just for the sake of starting a young QB is STOOPID.

No, it isn't. A youngster has to take their lumps and get used tot he speeed of the NFL game. They can't do that holding a clipboard with a headset on.

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 09:25 PM
I'm not arguing the point. I'm just telling you Croyle isn't going to be playing until later in the season, if at all.

Sadly, I know you are right. :shake:

DaneMcCloud
08-31-2007, 09:25 PM
You could argue both sides and be right. :shrug:

No, you can't. Either a QB has *it* or he doesn't. Brady has is and has always had it. But for some extremely unknown reason, no one thought he had *it*. Leave it to the geniuses that run the NFL.

Brady would have been Brady regardless of whether he had a chance in his second season (which he did), his third season or even his fourth.

Brady was READY to be the NFL star he became.

OnTheWarpath58
08-31-2007, 09:28 PM
I wonder what will happen when Damon Huard is you know Damon Huard, last year to me was a total fluke, this should be fun.

Yep.

Can't wait for the 8-8 season, then all the bitching next year when we go through the growing pains with Croyle.

Is delaying the inevitable worth 8 wins?

Not in my opnion.

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 09:29 PM
No, you can't. Either a QB has *it* or he doesn't. Brady has is and has always had it. But for some extremely unknown reason, no one thought he had *it*. Leave it to the geniuses that run the NFL.

Brady would have been Brady regardless of whether he had a chance in his second season (which he did), his third season or even his fourth.

Brady was READY to be the NFL star he became.

Bullshit. He had his growing pains just like every other successful NFL QB had, just shorter in duration. Brett Favre SUCKED ASS his rookie year. So did Peyton Manning. What about Steve Young? Did he light it up his first year?

Mecca
08-31-2007, 09:30 PM
No, you can't. Either a QB has *it* or he doesn't. Brady has is and has always had it. But for some extremely unknown reason, no one thought he had *it*. Leave it to the geniuses that run the NFL.

Brady would have been Brady regardless of whether he had a chance in his second season (which he did), his third season or even his fourth.

Brady was READY to be the NFL star he became.

NFL scouts put a lot more into how strong your arm is, how tall you are and how much you weigh than having "it" or a charismatic factor or leadership things like that.

There's a reason 6'5 with rocket arm will always be a first round pick.

Mecca
08-31-2007, 09:31 PM
Yep.

Can't wait for the 8-8 season, then all the bitching next year when we go through the growing pains with Croyle.

Is delaying the inevitable worth 8 wins?

Not in my opnion.

They'll be lucky to win 8.......I got 5 right now.

DaneMcCloud
08-31-2007, 09:31 PM
No, it isn't. A youngster has to take their lumps and get used tot he speeed of the NFL game. They can't do that holding a clipboard with a headset on.

Yeah, that worked out SO well for Akili Smith, Tim Couch, Cade McNown, Ryan Leaf, Dan McGwire, Todd Marinovich, Jim Druckenmiller, Jake Plummer, Andrew Walter, Steve Walsh, Kyle Boller, Patrick Ramsey, Andre Ware, David Klingler and Brian Griese, just to name a few.

GREAT point. :rolleyes:

DaneMcCloud
08-31-2007, 09:32 PM
Bullshit. He had his growing pains just like every other successful NFL QB had, just shorter in duration. Brett Favre SUCKED ASS his rookie year. So did Peyton Manning. What about Steve Young? Did he light it up his first year?


You're comparing Hall of Fame Talent to an oft-injured third round draft choice.

Thanks for playing.

tk13
08-31-2007, 09:32 PM
Like we aren't going to be floundering week 4? Only the world's biggest homer or most myopic optimist believes that we have a snowballs chance in hell at making the playoffs this year. We are rebuilding and I embrace it. But dammit, rebuilding means accepting setbacks and that includes problems with a rookie QB.
I really don't think it's that crazy. And I'm someone who wants Croyle to see some action this year. But if we put Huard in, I think we can Martyball it right to a playoff birth. Huard makes smart decisions, LJ runs the ball, we play like a top 15 defense again. If Jake Plummer can ride that formula to an AFC title game Damon Huard sure can. I don't feel confident we could beat Indy or NE that way. It might end in the usual ugly Martyball playoff loss, but I think we could get there.

Mecca
08-31-2007, 09:34 PM
I really don't think it's that crazy. And I'm someone who wants Croyle to see some action this year. But if we put Huard in, I think we can Martyball it right to a playoff birth. Huard makes smart decisions, LJ runs the ball, we play like a top 15 defense again. If Jake Plummer can ride that formula to an AFC title game Damon Huard sure can. I don't feel confident we could be Indy or NE that way. It might end in the usual ugly Martyball playoff loss, but I think we could get there.

I want some of what you are smoking.....

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 09:35 PM
Yeah, that worked out SO well for Akili Smith, Tim Couch, Cade McNown, Ryan Leaf, Dan McGwire, Todd Marinovich, Jim Druckenmiller, Jake Plummer, Andrew Walter, Steve Walsh, Kyle Boller, Patrick Ramsey, Andre Ware, David Klingler and Brian Griese, just to name a few.

GREAT point. :rolleyes:

Try a dose of levity with your derision. The only way to find out if you have a Brett Favre, a Steve Young, a Peyton Manning etc IS TO LET THEM PLAY. Either your rookie pans out or he doesn't. Look at San Fran. They had Joe Montana who had just won a SB recently. Steve Young was his backup. They traded Montana to the Chiefs and took a chance on Young.........who went on to win ANOTHER Lombardi for them.

tk13
08-31-2007, 09:36 PM
I want some of what you are smoking.....
Why's that? Martyball wins regular season games. I don't think anybody can dispute that. I'd like to see us be a little better than that, but it wins regular season games. If Huard has a 90 QB rating, LJ runs for 1700, and our defense is in the top 12... we will be in the wild card hunt, at least. I'd almost guarantee it.

The Bad Guy
08-31-2007, 09:38 PM
What's idiotic is people thinking that after Brodie Croyle's absolutely pathetic showing in the preseason, he should be given a chance to start regular season games TO LEARN.

Obviously, the hasn't hasn't LEARNED enough in OTA's, training camp or preseason games to make sound decisions on the field.

And you think that throwing on the field against a D-line like the Texans or the defense of the Bears will teach him anything?

That's very foolish notion.

Exactly.

It's horribly foolish to give a starting job to someone when they have shit the bed in the preseason because you want them to learn. If they didn't learn from their mistakes in preseason game 1 and transfer them to the rest, what makes everyone think that Croyle can do that week to week against top NFL talent?

You learn a lot about a player that gets worse when his starting job is on the line.

It was his job all along and he lost it.

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 09:39 PM
Why's that? Martyball wins regular season games. I don't think anybody can dispute that. I'd like to see us be a little better than that, but it wins regular season games. If Huard has a 90 QB rating, LJ runs for 1700, and our defense is in the top 12... we will be in the wild card hunt, at least. I'd almost guarantee it.

What is the point of that TK? So we can get the shit beaten out of us again in the first round of the playoffs? I am sick to death of that.

Logical
08-31-2007, 09:41 PM
I would put my miniature pinscher in a number 00 Chiefs Jersey and replace Printers with her.ROFL

Logical
08-31-2007, 09:43 PM
Why's that? Martyball wins regular season games. I don't think anybody can dispute that. I'd like to see us be a little better than that, but it wins regular season games. If Huard has a 90 QB rating, LJ runs for 1700, and our defense is in the top 12... we will be in the wild card hunt, at least. I'd almost guarantee it.

Oh good another chance at a playoff blowout and furhter proof the Chiefs are a joke as an organization.

The Bad Guy
08-31-2007, 09:45 PM
What is the point of that TK? So we can get the shit beaten out of us again in the first round of the playoffs? I am sick to death of that.

I really don't see the point in throwing seasons. The goal should always be going to the playoffs.

I'd much rather take a first round playoff loss than a 6-10 season. There are only 16 NFL games, I'd like for many to be as enjoyable as possible.

tk13
08-31-2007, 09:47 PM
What is the point of that TK? So we can get the shit beaten out of us again in the first round of the playoffs? I am sick to death of that.
I'm tired of it too... but if the coaching staff doesn't think Croyle is ready, I think that's how we're gonna have to win games. That might be the most interesting subplot of the season... will we throw Croyle in the mix much like Denver did Cutler last year.

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 09:47 PM
I really don't see the point in throwing seasons. The goal should always be going to the playoffs.

I'd much rather take a first round playoff loss than a 6-10 season. There are only 16 NFL games, I'd like for many to be as enjoyable as possible.

That's nice BG but every SUCCESSFUL franchise has rebuilding years. Ours is now...if the management will let it happen.

DaneMcCloud
08-31-2007, 09:47 PM
Look at San Fran. They had Joe Montana who had just won a SB recently. Steve Young was his backup. They traded Montana to the Chiefs and took a chance on Young.........who went on to win ANOTHER Lombardi for them.


Uh, no. San Francisco KNEW what they had in Steve Young because he backed up Montana from 1987 to 1992!

For six seasons, he backed up Montana. He was a viable commodity (with time spent in the USFL & Tampa Bay) and did his "time" behind Montana.

Nothing at ALL like Brodie Croyle's situation.

Thanks for playing.

Chiefnj2
08-31-2007, 09:48 PM
Bullshit. He had his growing pains just like every other successful NFL QB had, just shorter in duration. Brett Favre SUCKED ASS his rookie year. So did Peyton Manning. What about Steve Young? Did he light it up his first year?

Manning did not suck ass his rookie year.

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 09:49 PM
I'm tired of it too... but if the coaching staff doesn't think Croyle is ready, I think that's how we're gonna have to win games. That might be the most interesting subplot of the season... will we throw Croyle in the mix much like Denver did Cutler last year.

We need to IMO. Sink or swim Brodie. Your time to shine is NOW. JMHO.

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 09:52 PM
Uh, no. San Francisco KNEW what they had in Steve Young because he backed up Montana from 1987 to 1992!

For six seasons (along with time in the USFL and two years in Tampa Bay), Steve Young played football. He was a viable commodity and did his "time" behind Montana.

Nothing at ALL like Brodie Croyle's situation.

Thanks for playing.

Wrong. He did some time time in the USFL and proved nothing. He sucked ASS in Tampa Bay. He then went to San Fran and the rest is history.

DaneMcCloud
08-31-2007, 09:52 PM
We need to IMO. Sink or swim Brodie. Your time to shine is NOW. JMHO.

He had his time in OTA's, training camp and preseason. He stunk it up.

What part of that don't you get?

DaneMcCloud
08-31-2007, 09:55 PM
Wrong. He did some time time in the USFL and proved nothing. He sucked ASS in Tampa Bay. He then went to San Fran and the rest is history.

Wrong?? You said that San Francisco traded Montana because they "took a chance" on Young. What chance?

He WON games for them all throughout his tenure in SF when Montana was injured.

8 games in 1987
11 games in 1988
10 games in 1989
6 games in 1990
11 games in 1991
16 games in 1992

Please show me where SF took a "chance" when they traded Montana.

Thanks for playing.

Guru
08-31-2007, 09:56 PM
Why's that? Martyball wins regular season games. I don't think anybody can dispute that. I'd like to see us be a little better than that, but it wins regular season games. If Huard has a 90 QB rating, LJ runs for 1700, and our defense is in the top 12... we will be in the wild card hunt, at least. I'd almost guarantee it.
I am tired of playing to get to the playoffs just to be one and done. Sick of it.

I am ready to risk a horrendous season just to see if Croyle has IT or not.

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 09:56 PM
He had his time in OTA's, training camp and preseason. He stunk it up.

What part of that don't you get?

So OTA's and training camp = real playing time with the first team in your mind? Ummmmmmm........OK. :rolleyes:

Chiefnj2
08-31-2007, 10:01 PM
I am tired of playing to get to the playoffs just to be one and done. Sick of it.

I am ready to risk a horrendous season just to see if Croyle has IT or not.

Croyle doesn't have it. What more proof do you need? 4 quarters against 1st stringers going 100%. He couldn't do shit the last 2 1/2 games against anybody. Sadly, he isn't ready.

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 10:02 PM
Wrong?? You said that San Francisco traded Montana because they "took a chance" on Young. What chance?

He WON games for them all throughout his tenure in SF when Montana was injured.

8 games in 1987
11 games in 1988
10 games in 1989
6 games in 1990
11 games in 1991
16 games in 1992

Please show me where SF took a "chance" when they traded Montana.

Thanks for playing.

He SUCKED his first 2 years in the NFL (after playing in the USFL).

Young signed with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampa_Bay_Buccaneers) in 1985 after being the first player selected in the year's supplemental draft. However, the Buccaneers posted 2-14 win-loss records in each of Young's two seasons with them, and Young's record as starter was 3-16. In his 19 games, he threw for only 11 touchdowns with 21 interceptions while completing less than 55% of his passes.

DaneMcCloud
08-31-2007, 10:09 PM
He SUCKED his first 2 years in the NFL (after playing in the USFL).

Young signed with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampa_Bay_Buccaneers) in 1985 after being the first player selected in the year's supplemental draft. However, the Buccaneers posted 2-14 win-loss records in each of Young's two seasons with them, and Young's record as starter was 3-16. In his 19 games, he threw for only 11 touchdowns with 21 interceptions while completing less than 55% of his passes.

So?

His QB rating was only below 100 TWICE in the six seasons before the trade, where they "took a chance". 72.2 in 1988 and 92.6 in 1990.

Yeah, that was a real big risk trading Montana. :rolleyes:

Thanks for playing.

Guru
08-31-2007, 10:09 PM
Croyle doesn't have it. What more proof do you need? 4 quarters against 1st stringers going 100%. He couldn't do shit the last 2 1/2 games against anybody. Sadly, he isn't ready.


Growing pains. Pre-season football. We don't have our complete O-line yet. Receivers dropping good passes.

Most good and even GREAT QB sucked at the beginning of their careers, but YES, we are going to write Croyle off because he hasn't hand legendary performance for Chiefs fans that want perfection. :shake:

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 10:13 PM
So?

His QB rating was only below 100 TWICE in the six seasons before the trade, where they "took a chance". 72.2 in 1988 and 92.6 in 1990.

Yeah, that was a real big risk trading Montana. :rolleyes:

Thanks for playing.He was 3 and effing 16 in his first 2 years in the NFL. 11 TD's TWENTY ONE INT's. 55% completion. Thanks for playing.

Logical
08-31-2007, 10:14 PM
I really don't see the point in throwing seasons. The goal should always be going to the playoffs.

I'd much rather take a first round playoff loss than a 6-10 season. There are only 16 NFL games, I'd like for many to be as enjoyable as possible.

If I thought we were developing a team rather than just perpetuating mediocrity I would agree. But we won't be and we will have spent another wasted year not knowing whether Brodie would develop or not.

Chiefnj2
08-31-2007, 10:14 PM
Growing pains. Pre-season football. We don't have our complete O-line yet. Receivers dropping good passes.

Most good and even GREAT QB sucked at the beginning of their careers, but YES, we are going to write Croyle off because he hasn't hand legendary performance for Chiefs fans that want perfection. :shake:

The dropped passes and OL woes will continue throughout the season.

So, how are 5 recent draft picks, without a year of learning the system , able to play well? Kolb, Beck, Edwards, Stanton and Quinn can come in and not look like they crapped the bed and pissed in the car, yet Croyle cant get anything together.

Douche Baggins
08-31-2007, 10:16 PM
Leftwich has the s l o w e s t r e l e a s e ever.

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 10:19 PM
The dropped passes and OL woes will continue throughout the season.

So, how are 5 recent draft picks, without a year of learning the system , able to play well? Kolb, Beck, Edwards, Stanton and Quinn can come in and not look like they crapped the bed and pissed in the car, yet Croyle cant get anything together.

Completely different learning curve.

DaneMcCloud
08-31-2007, 10:19 PM
He was 3 and effing 16 in his first 2 years in the NFL. Thanks for playing.

You're an idiot.

First, you stated that "SF took a chance on Young". HOW, you MORON?

Young had played for the 49ers for 6 FULL SEASONS before trading Montana to the Chiefs. He'd had 9 YEAR OF PRO FOOTBALL EXPERIENCE.

Just because he didn't put up good numbers for an AWFUL Tamba Bay franchise (the same franchise that went more than 10 YEARS without a winning season) doesn't mean that Young was a bad quarterback.

So I ask again, WHERE IS THE RISK IN TRADING MONTANA WHEN YOU HAVE A PROVEN NFL VET IN STEVE YOUNG?

With each subsequent post you make, you further prove that you don't know jacksh*t about football.

THANKS FOR PLAYING!

Chiefnj2
08-31-2007, 10:22 PM
Leftwich has the s l o w e s t r e l e a s e ever.
do you have a video of it?

He's great in the shotgun. Could KC line up in the gun to buy more time?

The Bad Guy
08-31-2007, 10:23 PM
Completely different learning curve.

Are you serious?

What is completely different about the Herm Edwards/Mike Solari/Dick Curl offense?

They said they simplified the ENTIRE offense for Brodie to make it easier for reads. They wanted the ball immediately out of his hands on his 3rd drop. Too bad that he holds the ball longer than Carr.

The Croyle apologists are out in full force.

Chiefnj2
08-31-2007, 10:23 PM
Completely different learning curve.

So, Croyle is simply dumber than those guys, even though he has an exra year on them?

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 10:23 PM
Just because he didn't put up good numbers for an AWFUL Tamba Bay franchise (the same franchise that went more than 10 YEARS without a winning season) doesn't mean that Young was a bad quarterback.


You just made my point. He may have sucked early on but that didn't make him a bad QB. He was given a chance to play, made his mistakes, and shined. Thanks for playing Dane.

BigRedChief
08-31-2007, 10:23 PM
The dropped passes and OL woes will continue throughout the season.

So, how are 5 recent draft picks, without a year of learning the system , able to play well? Kolb, Beck, Edwards, Stanton and Quinn can come in and not look like they crapped the bed and pissed in the car, yet Croyle cant get anything together.
I don't know if Croyle is capable of leading us to the Super Bowl. But one thing I do now we will waste a whole year of rebuilding if he spends the entire season holding the clipboard. He stinks it up and we go 4-12 of well go get a QOTF in the draft or FA. Do something other than achieve average again and again.

Chiefnj2
08-31-2007, 10:24 PM
I don't know if Croyle is capable of leading us to the Super Bowl. But one thing I do now we will waste a whole year of rebuilding if he spends the entire season holding the clipboard. He stinks it up and we go 4-12 of well go get a QOTF in the draft or FA. Do something other than achieve average again and again.

Do you have to play him in regular games to determine he doesn't have "it".

The Bad Guy
08-31-2007, 10:25 PM
If I thought we were developing a team rather than just perpetuating mediocrity I would agree. But we won't be and we will have spent another wasted year not knowing whether Brodie would develop or not.

Brodie wasted the opportunity himself. Chief fans should be blaming Croyle for wasting a starting job that was basically put out on a silver platter that he couldn't close the deal on.

When you get worse from preseason game 1 to 4, there is something wrong with the player.

DaneMcCloud
08-31-2007, 10:27 PM
You just made my point. He may have sucked early on but that didn't make him a bad QB. He was given a chance to play, made his mistakes, and shined. Thanks for playing Dane.

Wow, you are really an football idiot and obviously, not a lawyer.

Since I pointed out the facts of Joe Montana's departure and Steve Young HOF career, you've now changed your argument to state that Steve Young was great QB stuck on a bad team.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot??

Also, way to be creative there, Sport.

Thanks for Play-IN.

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 10:28 PM
I don't know if Croyle is capable of leading us to the Super Bowl. But one thing I do now we will waste a whole year of rebuilding if he spends the entire season holding the clipboard. He stinks it up and we go 4-12 of well go get a QOTF in the draft or FA. Do something other than achieve average again and again.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhh........Don't interrupt the 'Carl and Co are teh best' crowd before the opening game.

DaneMcCloud
08-31-2007, 10:30 PM
Brodie wasted the opportunity himself. Chief fans should be blaming Croyle for wasting a starting job that was basically put out on a silver platter that he couldn't close the deal on.

When you get worse from preseason game 1 to 4, there is something wrong with the player.

The Chiefs "fans" that are blaming the Chiefs and Carl Peterson for not starting Brodie Croyle are too blinded by their idealistic belief that all it takes for a QB to become great is "playing time".

Of course, nothing could be further from the truth and I pointed out over 12 recent examples in a previous post.

But alas, the Croyle supporters are proving to be as adept at learning as the man himself.

Guru
08-31-2007, 10:30 PM
I don't know if Croyle is capable of leading us to the Super Bowl. But one thing I do now we will waste a whole year of rebuilding if he spends the entire season holding the clipboard. He stinks it up and we go 4-12 of well go get a QOTF in the draft or FA. Do something other than achieve average again and again.
eggsactly

Logical
08-31-2007, 10:33 PM
You're an idiot.

First, you stated that "SF took a chance on Young". HOW, you MORON?

Young had played for the 49ers for 6 FULL SEASONS before trading Montana to the Chiefs. He'd had 9 YEAR OF PRO FOOTBALL EXPERIENCE.

Just because he didn't put up good numbers for an AWFUL Tamba Bay franchise (the same franchise that went more than 10 YEARS without a winning season) doesn't mean that Young was a bad quarterback.

So I ask again, WHERE IS THE RISK IN TRADING MONTANA WHEN YOU HAVE A PROVEN NFL VET IN STEVE YOUNG?

With each subsequent post you make, you further prove that you don't know jacksh*t about football.

THANKS FOR PLAYING!

Dane you are sidetracked, I will give you trading Montana was no risk. But the point is really that the Chiefs are going nowhere and not developing by playing a lifetime backup that is 34 f*cking years old. Play the young guy any young guy and try to develop a future or trade for a young guy you think can be your future. Playing Huard is just more of that mediocre mentality bullshit.

The Bad Guy
08-31-2007, 10:35 PM
Shhhhhhhhhhhhh........Don't interrupt the 'Carl and Co are teh best' crowd before the opening game.

I hate Carl Peterson more than most people on this board.

But you don't hand over a starting spot to someone when they suck balls because they are young.

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 10:35 PM
I don't know if Croyle is capable of leading us to the Super Bowl. But one thing I do now we will waste a whole year of rebuilding if he spends the entire season holding the clipboard. He stinks it up and we go 4-12 of well go get a QOTF in the draft or FA. Do something other than achieve average again and again.

Ding ding ding. We have a winner! The definition of insanity is perpetuated by doing the same things over and over and expecting a different result.

The Bad Guy
08-31-2007, 10:36 PM
Dane you are sidetracked, I will give you trading Montana was no risk. But the point is really that the Chiefs are going nowhere and not developing by playing a lifetime backup that is 34 f*cking years old. Play the young guy any young guy and try to develop a future or trade for a young guy you think can be your future. Playing Huard is just more of that mediocre mentality bullshit.

Starting someone who proved he couldn't hang with 2nd and 3rd stringers in the NFL would be the biggest bullshit.

Some of you act like Croyle went out there and dominated and you can't figure out why Herm and co. would go away from him this year.

Logical
08-31-2007, 10:37 PM
Brodie wasted the opportunity himself. Chief fans should be blaming Croyle for wasting a starting job that was basically put out on a silver platter that he couldn't close the deal on.

When you get worse from preseason game 1 to 4, there is something wrong with the player.

Yes it could not possibly be that the teams we were playing got progressively better while we had god awful offensive linemen in front of Brodie and WRs that could not catch a ball if it was coated in superglue.

Logical
08-31-2007, 10:39 PM
Starting someone who proved he couldn't hang with 2nd and 3rd stringers in the NFL would be the biggest bullshit.

Some of you act like Croyle went out there and dominated and you can't figure out why Herm and co. would go away from him this year.Geezuz BG did you read my post at all, I said play him or any young guy or trade for someone that you think might develop. Jesus f*cking christ just don't start Huard.

Chiefnj2
08-31-2007, 10:39 PM
Yes it could not possibly be that the teams we were playing got progressively better while we had god awful offensive linemen in front of Brodie and WRs that could not catch a ball if it was coated in superglue.
Yet Printers was able to get those guys to hang onto the ball.

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2007, 10:39 PM
Yes it could not possibly be that the teams we were playing got progressively better while we had god awful offensive linemen in front of Brodie and WRs that could not catch a ball if it was coated in superglue.

No WAY. Couldn't be THAT. LMAO

DaneMcCloud
08-31-2007, 10:40 PM
Dane you are sidetracked, I will give you trading Montana was no risk. But the point is really that the Chiefs are going nowhere and not developing by playing a lifetime backup that is 34 f*cking years old. Play the young guy any young guy and try to develop a future or trade for a young guy you think can be your future. Playing Huard is just more of that mediocre mentality bullshit.

I was responding to CHIEF4EVER's ridiculous and ludicrous claim that the SF 49er's "took a chance" on Young by trading Montana to the Chiefs, using that as a comparison to Brodie Croyle. Downright stupid.

I don't agree with "play the young guy", especially when the "young guy" doesn't seem to have what it takes at this point in time. Many, many successful QB's take YEARS to develop (if ever) and Croyle *MAY* be one of those guys (if he develops).

Guys like Rich Gannon, Brad Johnson, Jake Delhomme, Mark Brunnell, Jeff Garcia, Trent Green, Kurt Warner and many, many more took YEARS to develop. YEARS. Not one year. Not two years. YEARS.

It would be FOOLISH on the part of the Kansas City Chiefs to put Brodie Croyle on the field, as a starter, when he's CLEARLY not ready to start.

And Brodie Croyle is CLEARLY not ready to start.

Guru
08-31-2007, 10:40 PM
Yes it could not possibly be that the teams we were playing got progressively better while we had god awful offensive linemen in front of Brodie and WRs that could not catch a ball if it was coated in superglue.
http://moviesmedia.ign.com/movies/image/ojrep.jpg

The Bad Guy
08-31-2007, 10:41 PM
Yes it could not possibly be that the teams we were playing got progressively better while we had god awful offensive linemen in front of Brodie and WRs that could not catch a ball if it was coated in superglue.

The teams got better? He couldn't move the ball against the Rams 3rd stringers yesterday.

The Chiefs offensive line isn't going to get better overnight so what's the point in throwing Croyle in there if he is truly the player the organization wants to build around?

He has an extensive injury history already.

FAX
08-31-2007, 10:41 PM
I think it's funny how two people can see the same car wreck differently. I see dropped passes and other people see bad throws.

Let's see. I just broke my knee, I think I'll just break some passing records, too ... let's start with Bart Starr, then let's go after Kenny Stabler. Ah heck, while we're at it, let's go ahead and eclipse Joe Namath. After all, it's just Bama.

FAX

DaneMcCloud
08-31-2007, 10:45 PM
I think it's funny how two people can see the same car wreck differently. I see dropped passes and other people see bad throws.

Let's see. I just broke my knee, I think I'll just break some passing records, too ... let's start with Bart Starr, then let's go after Kenny Stabler. Ah heck, while we're at it, let's go ahead and eclipse Joe Namath. After all, it's just Bama.

FAX

Mr. Fax,

You've listed player from a bygone era. Players that played as many as 40 years before Brodie Croyle stepped foot on the Alabama campus.

The game has changed tremendously since those days. This isn't baseball, where strategy has been the same for the past 100 years. Football has changed from a running game with the occasional forward pass, to the downfield game, West Coast Offense, Coryell offense, etc.

While I'm not discounting those players ability to play in the modern era, they certainly didn't play the same game at Alabama as Brodie Croyle.

Chiefnj2
08-31-2007, 10:50 PM
I think it's funny how two people can see the same car wreck differently. I see dropped passes and other people see bad throws.

Let's see. I just broke my knee, I think I'll just break some passing records, too ... let's start with Bart Starr, then let's go after Kenny Stabler. Ah heck, while we're at it, let's go ahead and eclipse Joe Namath. After all, it's just Bama.

FAX

Did you happen to catch the other names of the Bama QB's that had the passing records??

FAX
08-31-2007, 10:54 PM
Mr. Fax,

You've listed player from a bygone era. Players that played as many as 40 years before Brodie Croyle stepped foot on the Alabama campus.

The game has changed tremendously since those days. This isn't baseball, where strategy has been the same for the past 100 years. Football has changed from a running game with the occasional forward pass, to the downfield game, West Coast Offense, Coryell offense, etc.

While I'm not discounting those players ability to play in the modern era, they certainly didn't play the same game at Alabama as Brodie Croyle.

I totally agree, Mr. DaneMcCloud. 100%.

I just think it's interesting how people can see things so differently. My view on this deal is basically this, 1) Brodie isn't ready, 2) Brodie isn't being helped by the players around him (read blockers and receivers), 3) Brodie is getting his head screwed up by the coaching staff.

My point about the records is that this kid isn't trash. If he were, he couldn't have done what he did at Alabama.

FAX

DaneMcCloud
08-31-2007, 11:02 PM
I totally agree, Mr. DaneMcCloud. 100%.

I just think it's interesting how people can see things so differently. My view on this deal is basically this, 1) Brodie isn't ready, 2) Brodie isn't being helped by the players around him (read blockers and receivers), 3) Brodie is getting his head screwed up by the coaching staff.

My point about the records is that this kid isn't trash. If he were, he couldn't have done what he did at Alabama.

FAX

I guess I don't share the same pessimistic view of the Chiefs coaching staff as many forum members.

They've only been here for one season. They're beginning their second. HermCo liked Brodie Croyle enough to draft him in the third round and it seemed like they really wanted him to win the job in only his second season, much like Carson Palmer (without winning a national championship or going number one overall in the draft). He didn't.

Does this mean the coaching staff over-evaluated Croyle's draft stock? Does it mean the coaching staff hasn't done enough to prepare Croyle to start after one season on the sidelines? Does it mean that Croyle doesn't have enough talent to start in the NFL? Or does it simply mean that it takes time to develop a third round draft choice into a successful NFL QB?

I'm giving HermCo the benefit of the doubt. I thought he handled the Pennington situation rather well and hope that's repeated in KC. I'd like to think that HermCo knows what they're doing to best prepare Croyle as a successful NFL QB.

And that's all I got.

Logical
08-31-2007, 11:04 PM
Yet Printers was able to get those guys to hang onto the ball.Printers was so good they cut him.:rolleyes:

Ebolapox
08-31-2007, 11:39 PM
TWO MORE STUPID STATEMENTS!!!

Hey, Genuises, name ONE other QB taken in the 6th round that went on to win the Super Bowl OR a playoff game!

Tom Brady didn't SET a precedent. He was THE BEST 6th round find of ALL-TIME.

To compare him to any other lower round draft choice is STUPID.

sh*t, we could go on and on about late round talent.

kurt warner had one of the best QBing seasons of all-time (as a matter of fact, two of the best seasons of all-time), and he was....UNDRAFTED

dan fouts was a third round pick (84th overall--one pick higher, same round as croyle)--he sucked, didn't he?

warren moon was undrafted out of college. his prowess at the QB position stands for itself.

sonny jurgensen was a fourth round pick in 1957-- took the redskins to the super bowl, he sure sucked.

johnny unitas, he was only a ninth round pick. he must've REALLY sucked.

fran tarkenton? third round pick. he was a f*cking BUM

bart starr? SEVENTEENTH round pick. he only won the first two super bowls, but those don't count, do they? because a guy who SUCKED led his team!! sh*t, bart starr even went to ALABAMA! he must've REALLY been horrible!111

brady and montana we already know about. they f*cking SUCK

cause, you know, a guy HAS to be drafted in the first round to EVER make a difference in the nfl, right? ryan leaf, akili smith, rick mirer, jeff brohm, todd marinovich, cade mcnown, tim couch, andre ware, david klingler, jeff george, dan mcgwire, tommy maddox, heath shuler, jim druckenmiller, joey harrington, patrick ramsey, kyle boller, kelly stouffer, chris miller, chuck long, todd blackledge, art schlichter, rich campbell, marc wilson, mark malone, jack thompson, steve fuller, and steve pisarkiewicz would all agree with you. they're members of a VERY exclusive club, first round QB busts of the last 30 years. they would give everything they have to have sucked HALF as much as the QBs I mentioned in the beginning of my post.

assclown. (/drops microphone)

Mr Luzcious
08-31-2007, 11:45 PM
I thought Herm was already married. :shrug:

DaneMcCloud
09-01-2007, 12:14 AM
assclown. (/drops microphone)

Seems to me like you've described yourself perfectly.

Ebolapox
09-01-2007, 12:29 AM
Seems to me like you've described yourself perfectly.

wow, so instead of addressing the real issue, let's start deflection.

perfect.

so do you have any evidence to prove that first round QBs are the only ones to trust? cause I have a PLETHORA of evidence that states otherwise--

Ebolapox
09-01-2007, 12:33 AM
as a matter of fact, I'll explain the 'drop microphone' thing to you since you clearly didn't understand it. it's a way of putting emphasis on something. I was calling your logic extremely horrible (brady being the ONLY late round QB worth a damn), called YOU an assclown (your response basically proved me correct, thanks), and, in the fashion of chris rock (after a show, he drops the microphone. you should know this, he's a hollywood guy, right? those are the only people you really pay any attention to), sort of an 'emphasis'

you get it now, or should I go download some more music off the intraweb for free to piss you off?

Chiefs Pantalones
09-01-2007, 12:41 AM
I hope I'm wrong, but Croyle will never be more than a backup in this league.

Why not pick up Leftwich?

DaneMcCloud
09-01-2007, 12:42 AM
as a matter of fact, I'll explain the 'drop microphone' thing to you since you clearly didn't understand it. it's a way of putting emphasis on something. I was calling your logic extremely horrible (brady being the ONLY late round QB worth a damn), called YOU an assclown (your response basically proved me correct, thanks), and, in the fashion of chris rock (after a show, he drops the microphone. you should know this, he's a hollywood guy, right? those are the only people you really pay any attention to), sort of an 'emphasis'

you get it now, or should I go download some more music off the intraweb for free to piss you off?

Wow, Assclown is probably an understatement.

You listed QB's that aren't of this era and certainly weren't part of the scrutiny that exists today.

Johnny U? Bart Starr? Sonny Jurgensen? How do these players relate to the scouting, drafting and game of today? THEY DON'T.

Warren Moon was a victim of RACISM. Pure and simple. I'm sorry if you can't see that was a horrible tragedy, that he had to spend the early part of his career in the CFL. But to compare his plight to Brodie Croyle? Ridiculous.

Where did I EVER state that a QB has to be a first round draft pick to succeed in the NFL? NEVER.

My entire "argument", if you will, is based solely on the fact that it CAN take longer than one year on the sidelines to develop a QB. It took many successful QB's YEARS to develop into winning QB's. Not months. Not one year. Not two years. But YEARS.

Why don't you re-read ALL of my posts, Mr. Bird Flu, before making asinine assumptions about my view of the current situation.

And while you're at, work on your grammar and spelling.

Thanks for playing.

arrowheadnation
09-01-2007, 12:49 AM
Sadly enough, a lot of us are getting our hopes up and Carl will probably put the kabosh on this early tomorrow morning. It'll go something like this....

Bob Gretz: So the big news yesterday was the revelation of the imminent departure of Byron Leftwich from Jacksonville. At this point do the Chiefs have any interest in pursuing him?

Carl: No, we have the future of this franchise in Brodie Croyle, and a good teacher to lead him there in Damon Huard.

Ebolapox
09-01-2007, 12:52 AM
Wow, Assclown is probably an understatement.

You listed QB's that aren't of this era and certainly weren't part of the scrutiny that exists today.

Johnny U? Bart Starr? Sonny Jurgensen? How do these players relate to the scouting, drafting and game of today? THEY DON'T.

Warren Moon was a victim of RACISM. Pure and simple. I'm sorry if you can't see that was a horrible tragedy, that he had to spend the early part of his career in the CFL. But to compare his plight to Brodie Croyle? Ridiculous.

Where did I EVER state that a QB has to be a first round draft pick to succeed in the NFL? NEVER.

My entire "argument", if you will, is based solely on the fact that it CAN take longer than one year on the sidelines to develop a QB. It took many successful QB's YEARS to develop into winning QB's. Not months. Not one year. Not two years. But YEARS.

Why don't you re-read ALL of my posts, Mr. Bird Flu, before making asinine assumptions about my view of the current situation.

And while you're at, work on your grammar and spelling.

Thanks for playing.

ahh, the spelling and grammar police show up now. OH NOEZ!!!

and so does the most arrogant poster on the planet (which is saying a lot, really)

I didn't realize that I was typing a paper for a grade, professor-- last time I checked, I don't receive college credit for posting at the planet-- can I?

apparently, in skimming your posts, I had caught the wrong message. I happen to agree that it takes QBs time to develop.

Mecca
09-01-2007, 12:58 AM
Sadly enough, a lot of us are getting our hopes up and Carl will probably put the kabosh on this early tomorrow morning. It'll go something like this....

Bob Gretz: So the big news yesterday was the revelation of the imminent departure of Byron Leftwich from Jacksonville. At this point do the Chiefs have any interest in pursuing him?

Carl: No, we have the future of this franchise in Brodie Croyle, and a good teacher to lead him there in Damon Huard.

That reminds me of Vermiel who would always be like "these are our guys" and refuse to sign anyone that got cut.

DaneMcCloud
09-01-2007, 01:03 AM
apparently, in skimming your posts, I had caught the wrong message. I happen to agree that it takes QBs time to develop.

Nice recovery, Mr. Flu.

DaneMcCloud
09-01-2007, 01:03 AM
That reminds me of Vermiel who would always be like "these are our guys" and refuse to sign anyone that got cut.

Mr. HymanShooter was like that, too.

Great tradition.

Ebolapox
09-01-2007, 01:07 AM
Nice recovery, Mr. Flu.

one of the advantages of multiplying 1024 times in thirty minutes. evolution works faster

BCD
09-01-2007, 01:07 AM
I hate Carl Peterson more than most people on this board.

But you don't hand over a starting spot to someone when they suck balls because they are young.How the hell else do you develop a young QB?

DaneMcCloud
09-01-2007, 01:13 AM
one of the advantages of multiplying 1024 times in thirty minutes. evolution works faster

Then I guess you owe me 1024 positive reps to make up for the neg rep. :p

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-01-2007, 01:36 AM
Stupid rat c*nts

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-01-2007, 08:15 AM
Then I guess you owe me 1024 positive reps to make up for the neg rep. :p

You're just lucky he doesn't put you in the camel clutch, break your back, and THEN F*CK YOUR ASS...for God and Jesus and Mr. McMahon.

Because he RESPECT the Planet and he RESPECT Mr. McMahon.

DenverChief
09-01-2007, 08:18 AM
You're just lucky he doesn't put you in the camel clutch, break your back, and THEN F*CK YOUR ASS...for God and Jesus and Mr. McMahon.

Because he RESPECT the Planet and he RESPECT Mr. McMahon.

:spock:

Bill Parcells
09-01-2007, 08:19 AM
You're just lucky he doesn't put you in the camel clutch, break your back, and THEN F*CK YOUR ASS...for God and Jesus and Mr. McMahon.

Because he RESPECT the Planet and he RESPECT Mr. McMahon.
Hamas is back! :wayne:

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-01-2007, 08:20 AM
:spock:

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9K-wEUCCvE0"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9K-wEUCCvE0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

Deberg_1990
09-01-2007, 08:34 AM
Well at least signing Leftwich would satisfy that #1 draft pick at QB requirement for alot of you guys out there. :)

DaKCMan AP
09-01-2007, 08:37 AM
Well at least signing Leftwich would satisfy that #1 draft pick at QB requirement for alot of you guys out there. :)

We could probably get Akili Smith, Tim Couch or Cade McNown cheaper. ;)

Baby Lee
09-01-2007, 10:34 AM
:spock:
You are ask excellent, EX-cellent quess shoown.

GoHuge
09-01-2007, 10:44 AM
With a decent O-line the guys we have will be just fine. Especially Huard.

boogblaster
09-01-2007, 10:47 AM
Who knows he might help this team, but I doubt it ...

jettio
09-01-2007, 11:10 AM
Brady's first 3 games after Bledsoe's injury:

5-10, 46 yards

13-23, 168 yards

12-24, 86 yards.


New England should have given up on him.......

How about a little honesty when debating something?

That first game had Brady not stepping onto the field until 2:16 left in the game.

In his third start, he passed for 350+ yards, if you want to go look up something to share, how about not trying to mislead people.

Brady's first year he had great accuracy on shorter routes and not on longer passes, he only threw deep to keep defenses honest. He developed a lot more after that first season.

Brady had talent from the beginning, he did not get to play as much at Michigan and he was not a combine warrior, if he did not have good QBs ahead of him at Michigan, he would have been drafted a lot earlier. He showed a lot of winning quality when he did play at Michigan.

Sure-Oz
09-01-2007, 11:16 AM
is leftwich officially cut yet or is he still property of the jags? a friend of mine just emailed me while we were at work saying someone that works for the chiefs said he got a call that we had signed him that came into his work?! im def. taking that with a bunch of salt.

I don't see how that is possible and there is nothing on the net.

OnTheWarpath58
09-01-2007, 11:17 AM
How about a little honesty when debating something?

That first game had Brady not stepping onto the field until 2:16 left in the game.

In his third start, he passed for 350+ yards, if you want to go look up something to share, how about not trying to mislead people.

Brady's first year he had great accuracy on shorter routes and not on longer passes, he only threw deep to keep defenses honest. He developed a lot more after that first season.

Brady had talent from the beginning, he did not get to play as much at Michigan and he was not a combine warrior, if he did not have good QBs ahead of him at Michigan, he would have been drafted a lot earlier. He showed a lot of winning quality when he did play at Michigan.

I don't give a flying **** when he came on the field.

My post read:

Brady's first 3 games after Bledsoe's injury:

5-10, 46 yards

13-23, 168 yards

12-24, 86 yards.

Notice I didn't say STARTS. I'm not trying to mislead anyone. I'm reporting the FACTS.

Those stats are FACTS. Here's the link.

http://www.nfl.com/players/tombrady/gamelogs?id=BRA371156&season=2001

How about learning to read before you question someone's honesty?

Deberg_1990
09-01-2007, 11:24 AM
Schefter on NFL Network reporting that the Falcons would be interested, if they dont go after the Raiders Andrew Walters. He also mentions that Leftwichs 5.1 mil salary is going to be a problem when trying to trade him.

No mention of the Chiefs..

http://www.nfl.com/preseason/story?id=09000d5d801fb08c&template=with-video&confirm=true

jettio
09-01-2007, 11:29 AM
I don't give a flying **** when he came on the field.

My post read:

Brady's first 3 games after Bledsoe's injury:

5-10, 46 yards

13-23, 168 yards

12-24, 86 yards.

Notice I didn't say STARTS. I'm not trying to mislead anyone. I'm reporting the FACTS.

Those stats are FACTS. Here's the link.

http://www.nfl.com/players/tombrady/gamelogs?id=BRA371156&season=2001

How about learning to read before you question someone's honesty?

You went through the trouble of looking something up and then edited what you found out. Post the link next time instead of acting like Brady came out playing poorly.

Brady was the backup and the Pats were not going to play anybody else, especially when he was playing okay.

I remember his first start was against Indy and the ESPN gang of Berman, Jackson, and whoever was with them then, were guffawing about how little chance the Pats had winning the game with Tom Brady at QB.

OnTheWarpath58
09-01-2007, 11:33 AM
You went through the trouble of looking something up and then edited what you found out. Post the link next time instead of acting like Brady came out playing poorly.

Brady was the backup and the Pats were not going to play anybody else, especially when he was playing okay.

I remember his first start was against Indy and the ESPN gang of Berman, Jackson, and whoever was with them then, were guffawing about how little chance the Pats had winning the game with Tom Brady at QB.

I didn't edit anything. Jesus Christ.

Brady did come out playing poorly. Then he turned it on. That makes my point.

If you had actually READ the ****ing thread, you'd realize that I was trying to make the point that while he started slow, the Pats weren't about to give up on him. Unlike what people around here want to do with Croyle.

I also made the point that the Pats thought so highly of him that he was backing up Drew ****ing Bledsoe. Had Bledsoe not gotten hurt, they would have at LEAST one less Lombardi Trophy.

Ebolapox
09-01-2007, 11:43 AM
You're just lucky he doesn't put you in the camel clutch, break your back, and THEN F*CK YOUR ASS...for God and Jesus and Mr. McMahon.

Because he RESPECT the Planet and he RESPECT Mr. McMahon.

ROFL

jettio
09-01-2007, 11:44 AM
I didn't edit anything. Jesus Christ.

Brady did come out playing poorly. Then he turned it on. That makes my point.

If you had actually READ the ****ing thread, you'd realize that I was trying to make the point that while he started slow, the Pats weren't about to give up on him. Unlike what people around here want to do with Croyle.

I also made the point that the Pats thought so highly of him that he was backing up Drew ****ing Bledsoe. Had Bledsoe not gotten hurt, they would have at LEAST one less Lombardi Trophy.


Lighten up, you have been going on and on about Huard being a mediocre journeyman QB, and then you get all bent out of shape when I point out your mediocre journeyman posting tactic.

If you think the Chiefs are messing up then just wait and see.

I will always root for them, but I often think they ought to replace the KC in the arrowhead with SA- since they will always do something to be the Sorry-Azz Chiefs. I still like to see them have a good year and they have enough talent that they just might.