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View Full Version : Is the Cali energy crisis intentional?


keg in kc
05-19-2001, 03:09 AM
No comment on my part (I generally steer clear of the political stuff...) but I will say that this stuff really makes the conspiracy nut half of my brain go "hmmm...". Thought some people on the website would be interested to read it, if they haven't done so already.

Two articles:

http://www.latimes.com/business/reports/power/lat_suit010518.htm

http://www.latimes.com/business/reports/power/lat_lynch010519.htm

Rausch
05-19-2001, 05:18 AM
Isn't this kind of like saying: "Did Oswald really shoot Kennedy?"

OF COURSE its' manufactured!




Former Republican quickly gaining skeptical disdain for Jr....

Jim Hunter
05-19-2001, 07:32 AM
It is obviously a flawed system and people are suffering because of it. I'm just not sure how anyone is going to be able to prove a "conspiracy" between the Power companies.......although I'd bet my bottom dollar that it was/is happening there to some degree.

yoswif
05-19-2001, 08:00 AM
"State analysts have argued, however, that power traders can reap extraordinary profits by withholding power because the prices for the power that is sold are so high."

Gee, I think I'll shut down my generating facility so my competitors can reap huge profits. Leave it to the socialist government of California and the socialist press to think that 30 year old generating plants can be operated at maximum production capacity for extended periods without unexpected breakdowns and increased maintenence which would require cutbacks or shutdowns. But then we've come to expect irrational and illogical words and actions from the socialist government of California and the socialist press.

The only hope the socialist government and the socialist press have of maintaining their socialist government is to blame all the problems their socialist government has caused on someone else.

The California Dept. of Water Resources has recently agreed to contracts which require it to pay 1900% of market value for the power the government of California is purchasing. If any private company put itself in such a position, they would be out of business in a hurry. But the socialist government and the socialist press blames the company that agreed to sell their power for a rate the socialist government obviously felt at the time they signed the contract was a fair rate. Now the socialist government is alleging they were gouged. How can you gouge a socialist government that is throwing money around like they have an endless supply?

Now the socialist government of California is threatening to seize the power companies, Communist style, if they don't rip up the contracts the socialist government of California and these power companies have mutually agreed to. Get a business to agree to a deal with the socialist government and then if the business doesn't rip up the agreement, the socialist government can seize the business. Only in the United Socialist Soviet States of America.

Gaz
05-19-2001, 08:19 AM
The energy situation in California is entirely of California's making.

California politicians placed artificial caps on energy prices, so Californians got artificially cheap energy while the actual market price was increasing. This disparity led to mounting pressure on energy prices and now that pressure is venting. This was inevitable.

You do not need to look for a deep, dark conspiracy when human stupidity, short-sightedness and political whoring can easily explain the situation.

xoxo~
Gaz
Has lots of faith in basic human flaws.

chief52
05-19-2001, 09:50 AM
Gaz;

You hit the nail on the head. I work for a CA utility and I find what you said to be right on. The politicians created this situation and the energy producers took full advantage of their stupidity. I feel the producers got over zealous in their quest to make as much $$$$$$$ as possible, but the politicians are the ones to blame. Obviously the federal goverment is not going to help us out as Bush's buddies in Texas are reaping huge profits. It is not like the politicians were not told this was going to happen a couple of years ago! They did not believe it and apparantly still do not as their head is still in the sand! Gov. Gray Davis is clueless, but he did not sign this bill, Gov. Wilson did and he admits it was the worst thing he ever did.

Gaz
05-19-2001, 10:17 AM
chief52-

Yes, the energy corporations are taking full advantage of California's stupidity. That is Capitalism in a nutshell. The corporations have an obligation to maximize profits for the shareholders. They would be negligent if they did not charge whatever the market will bear. The anguished howls of "profiteering" fall on deaf ears in the Gaz household. Had the California legislature not artificially created a situation where it was unprofitable to search for new energy sources, they would not be in this "crisis" now. I do not recall the people of California wailing that their energy prices were artificially low.


It annoys me to hear people wailing that we must help poor California weather this "crisis." California enjoyed below-market energy prices and made no effort to share that bounty with the rest of the nation. Fair enough.

Any reasonable person could have seen this coming miles away, and I have no sympathy for people who crap in their own nests and then whine that the government should clean up the mess.

xoxo~
Gaz
Willing to clean up his mess, but not California's

yoswif
05-19-2001, 10:53 AM
The wonderful thing about socialism is that the consequences of socialist policies are never "intentional". It's always someone else's fault when socialist policies make everything we buy cost more. It's always someone else's fault when socialist policies destroy a free market. It's always someone else's fault when socialist policies create opportunities for businesses to make huge profits. It's always someone else's fault when socialist policies destroy existing American manufacturing jobs or place insurmountable roadblocks to American businesses trying to create American manufacturing jobs.

But watch the socialist politicians and the socialist press go ballistic if anyone threatens bureaucrats jobs, corporate or government. Watch the socialist politicians and socialist press go ballistic if someone suggests a policy that would result in a single lawyer missing a chance to collect an enormous fee. Watch the socialist politicians and the socialist press go ballistic if someone suggests a policy that favors American manufacturing workers instead of bureaucrats, both corporate and government, lawyers, and manufacturing workers in other countries.

chief52
05-19-2001, 12:14 PM
Gaz;

I agree that the corporate chiefs have a fiduciary obligation to maximize their profits and thus the interests of the share holders. If a corporation makes a 100% profit when it could have made a 150% profit the head of the corporation would be fired! They are doing what any good business person would do and are in no way doing anything illegal.

I also agree that California does not deserve a "bail out"! This is not that big of a deal. Raise the prices up to where they should be and this thing will all iron out. It will take a while, but so be it! I get so sick and tired of the protester at PUC meetings attempting to dictate artificial prices to the PUC. They just do not get it! That is what it costs...deal with it! If you use it you have to pay for it.

TheFly
05-19-2001, 10:01 PM
Ooops... my power finally came back on... thanks to the generators coming back on line after the price got up to $500/megawatt hour... Yes siree, electicity is a business. The fact that it is nowadays as necessary as water doesn't matter.

Thank goodness that water is handled by public agencies... They might be bureaucrats, but you know they're not in it for the money!

chief52
05-20-2001, 12:47 AM
... They might be bureaucrats, but you know they're not in it for the money!



What??? Who is more money hungry than a bureaucrat? Can you imagine the state of affairs we would be in if the state took over? Thank God electricity is so complex that the government would not even think of throwing their hat in the ring. Look how screwed up the water is in California and a it takes no brains to manage that! Can you imagine how well things would be going as far as water is concerned if no public agencies were allowed to be involved? They are only involved so they can add tax to it without some people being smart enough to realize it!

TheFly
05-20-2001, 12:05 PM
You'll have to forgive my tongue-in-cheek sarcasm... As a libertarian I have little use for bureaucrats or gov't...

I will say this though... The difference between capitalism and extortion is a very fine line indeed... And in the case of electricity and natural gas in California I believe that line has been crossed...

Never mind that the politicians, being the wonderful public servants that they are, sold their souls to the highest contributor and have done nothing to either: free the markets, or combat extortion...

As long as they can be bought the extortion will continue because it is serving the purposes of both groups...

Oxford
05-21-2001, 10:04 AM
OFGS, of course it's manufactured! The CA politicians felt if they could design a system that would force energy prices to skyrocket, then they could encourage the populace to conserve more, and therefore the prices would fall. Looks like they got what they designed! Blackouts are enforced conservation, whenever they get to blackouts 20 percent of the electrical season, it will be solved.