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View Full Version : What should the Chiefs do about a kicker?


Logical
09-09-2007, 10:32 PM
Poll to follow....

chiefbowe82
09-09-2007, 10:34 PM
nothing...

Deberg_1990
09-09-2007, 10:36 PM
Nothing this year. Its not going to matter much. Might as well let the kid try to work through it. At the end of the year, then we can evaulate his overall season performance.

unothadeal
09-09-2007, 10:37 PM
Bober

Logical
09-09-2007, 10:37 PM
Nothing this year. Its not going to matter much. Might as well let the kid try to work through it. At the end of the year, then we can evaulate his overall season performance.

If he could kickoff for distance I would agree, but this kid clearly does not have a powerful leg. In fact it is pathetic.

Count Alex's Losses
09-09-2007, 10:38 PM
Rookie kickers struggle. Fact of NFL life. For an old guy you don't have much patience, Jim.

unothadeal
09-09-2007, 10:38 PM
If he could kickoff for distance I would agree, but this kid clearly does not have a powerful leg. In fact it is pathetic.
Seems better than Tynes...

Count Alex's Losses
09-09-2007, 10:39 PM
If he could kickoff for distance I would agree, but this kid clearly does not have a powerful leg. In fact it is pathetic.

Medlock put the ball into the back of the endzone in preseason. He has a strong leg. In fact, I saw him kick a 57-yarder in training camp.

Right now his issues are all mechanical.

el borracho
09-09-2007, 10:40 PM
This year? Nothing to be done and no reason to do it (we go nowhere this year,anyway). Suffer through and fix the problem (if it does not improve) next year.

Skip Towne
09-09-2007, 10:41 PM
If he could kickoff for distance I would agree, but this kid clearly does not have a powerful leg. In fact it is pathetic.
His opening kickoff reached the 5 yard line. Check the game thread. I always note it when we kickoff to start the game.

banyon
09-09-2007, 10:42 PM
You could have added "Just go for it on 4th downs" as an option. That could save us some cap room too.

Logical
09-09-2007, 10:44 PM
His opening kickoff reached the 5 yard line. Check the game thread. I always note it when we kickoff to start the game.

Mike I saw it, that is not what I would consider a powerful leg. Besides it had no height which is why they had a return to around the 30.

Logical
09-09-2007, 10:45 PM
Medlock put the ball into the back of the endzone in preseason. He has a strong leg. In fact, I saw him kick a 57-yarder in training camp.

Right now his issues are all mechanical.

And mental, as to the poweful leg, until I see it in a game I am going to remain skeptical.

Mecca
09-09-2007, 10:46 PM
It's not like it's that important a FG isn't the difference in this team winning something.

Logical
09-09-2007, 10:47 PM
Rookie kickers struggle. Fact of NFL life. For an old guy you don't have much patience, Jim.I watched Kaeding struggle but it was with kicks over 40 yards, no one at the NFL level should struggle with 30 yarders. I would rather my patience be used on developing a QB.

Count Alex's Losses
09-09-2007, 10:47 PM
And mental, as to the poweful leg, until I see it in a game I am going to remain skeptical.

Did you not see the kickoff in Cleveland?

unlurking
09-09-2007, 10:47 PM
Mike I saw it, that is not what I would consider a powerful leg. Besides it had no height which is why they had a return to around the 30.
Finally, someone else who sees that this guy has no power!!!

And what about hang time?! In order to get to the 5, the ball is a line-drive!

unlurking
09-09-2007, 10:49 PM
Did you not see the kickoff in Cleveland?
I have not seen ANY kicks from him that looked even average in hang time while getting to the 5 or less. Granted I didn't watch all of the pre-season games, but I have seen at least 10 or so, and not one would I even classify as average.

If you've got any clips, I would love to see them. At this point I am at a total loss to figure out how he can perform so horribly but have so many supporters?!

Demonpenz
09-09-2007, 10:50 PM
if you are in the nfl that ball should be in the endzone everytime

unlurking
09-09-2007, 10:50 PM
I watched Kaeding struggle but it was with kicks over 40 yards, no one at the NFL level should struggle with 30 yarders. I would rather my patience be used on developing a QB.
No shit, but apparently QBs don't have sufficient confidence levels to play on a losing team. </sarcasm>

orange
09-09-2007, 10:54 PM
Medlock’s miss may cost him his job
By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

Justin Medlock’s struggles continued Sunday when he missed a 30-yard field-goal attempt in the first quarter. HOUSTON | Chiefs coach Herm Edwards did the only thing he could realistically do under the circumstances. He endorsed rookie kicker Justin Medlock even after Medlock missed a 30-yard field-goal attempt that would have given his team an early lead in what would eventually become a 20-3 loss to the Texans.

Perhaps that’s only because the Chiefs had no other kicker on their roster.

“He’s our kicker,” Edwards said, though his words sounded unconvincing.

It’s hard to see how the Chiefs can stay with Medlock with their offense finding it difficult to score points.

The Chiefs have their list of possible replacements ready after last week’s round of veteran auditions. Their favorite among the bunch appears to be Nick Novak, who was impressive on field goals and kickoffs in his workout.

Novak has kicked in regular-season games for Arizona and Washington.

They made no move for Novak on Sunday, but that could change soon. Medlock later made a 27-yard field goal, but by the time he attempted that one, the Chiefs trailed 17-0.

“I was dying,” Medlock said, referring to the time between his failed field goal in the first quarter and his successful one late in the third. “I really needed to get back out there.”

Medlock’s problems got to the point Sunday that he came out early during halftime and practiced field goals with snapper J.P. Darche and holder Dustin Colquitt. That’s an extraordinary measure but one all involved thought was necessary.

“His confidence is fine,” Colquitt said. “We figured something out on that (unsuccessful) one. It’s his timing. He was moving too fast and attacking the ball. He doesn’t need to start coming until the ball hits my hands. I think we figured that out. He was just kind of rushing.”

Medlock said, “I probably rushed it a little bit. Any time the snap is there and the hold is down, you have to make it. It’s my fault, and I take responsibility for that.”

The list of last week’s visiting kickers included Novak and John Carney, who played for Tampa Bay, San Diego and New Orleans over several seasons. Colquitt questioned whether any would be an upgrade over Medlock.

“When all of those guys came in, there were a lot of misses,” Colquitt said.

Medlock said he wasn’t concerned the Chiefs had auditioned possible replacements and asked for more time to straighten out his problems.

The Chiefs’ fifth-round draft pick, Medlock made almost 80 percent of his field-goal attempts in a four-year career at UCLA and almost 88 percent as a senior.

He said he missed four of his first five attempts in college.

“I’m one for two,” he said. “Last year, I was one for two. I just missed one. I missed my first one. I missed one last year. I missed my first one when I was a junior. I missed my first one when I was a freshman. This is just another hiccup.”

Even if they move for another kicker, it’s unlikely the Chiefs would completely give up on Medlock. Their options include keeping Medlock on their roster as a backup kicker or trying to get him through waivers and placing him on their practice squad


http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/268136.html

Thig Lyfe
09-09-2007, 10:56 PM
He's not keeping his spot on my fantasy team, that's for damn sure.

ChiefsCountry
09-09-2007, 10:56 PM
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&statisticCategory=KICKING&season=2007&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=0&Submit=Find

Skip Towne
09-09-2007, 10:59 PM
I have never, ever seen a soccer style kicker who didn't draw (a slight hook) the ball. Makes no difference if it is a righty or lefty, they all draw it. Some draw it more than others. I noticed in pre season that this kid fades it while he is missing it. On that early attempt he missed today he totally pushed it and missed everything by 10 yards. Airball! Airball! His mechanics are all screwed up for his kicks to be acting as they do. Do we have anyone smart enough to spot this? I dunno.

unlurking
09-09-2007, 11:01 PM
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&statisticCategory=KICKING&season=2007&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=0&Submit=Find
Pretty much dead average on kick-off distance, but what about hang time? Anyone know if they still track that? They used to track it in the 80's (or at least they used to put it on the screen). Hang time should be a minimum of 5 seconds. I think Medlock is lucky if he sees 4 (I'm going to grab a stop watch for next week's game).

Deberg_1990
09-09-2007, 11:02 PM
Why are his mechanics so screwed up?? Do College kickers have to change much to adjust to the pro game???

ChiefsCountry
09-09-2007, 11:02 PM
Medlock is kicking the ball on the average to 2 yard line.

Preseason it was to the 10 yard line. He also had 1 touchback.

Logical
09-09-2007, 11:05 PM
I have never, ever seen a soccer style kicker who didn't draw (a slight hook) the ball. Makes no difference if it is a righty or lefty, they all draw it. Some draw it more than others. I noticed in pre season that this kid fades it while he is missing it. On that early attempt he missed today he totally pushed it and missed everything by 10 yards. Airball! Airball! His mechanics are all screwed up for his kicks to be acting as they do. Do we have anyone smart enough to spot this? I dunno.

We should see if Lowery would come out of retirement and coach him on his mechanics. Lowery often talked about what held him back for so many years was learning the mechanics of a good kick, but once he mastered it he became nearly automatic inside 45.

unlurking
09-09-2007, 11:06 PM
Medlock is kicking the ball on the average to 2 yard line.

Preseason it was to the 10 yard line. He also had 1 touchback.
16th out of the 26 listed. I'd pretty much put that in middle. The pre-season was yes, worse than today. He needs to figure out how to get to the two with some hang time. I'm not asking for a touchback every time. Hell, I'd have no problem if he never had a touchback if he had enough hang time for our guys to get a little closer.

Logical
09-09-2007, 11:10 PM
He's not keeping his spot on my fantasy team, that's for damn sure.You are joking, surely you did not take him for your fantasy team?

That would have been a homer pick in the extreme.

Thig Lyfe
09-09-2007, 11:10 PM
Meanwhile, Mason Crosby hit a game-winner for Green Bay.

Skip Towne
09-09-2007, 11:11 PM
We should see if Lowery would come out of retirement and coach him on his mechanics. Lowery often talked about what held him back for so many years was learning the mechanics of a good kick, but once he mastered it he became nearly automatic inside 45.
That's a very good idea. This kid is a lefty so I guess everything is reversed. In golf, if you want a fade you make sure your hands are ahead of the ball at impact. Just behind the ball for a draw. It is something you can adjust in golf and probably in kicking as well.

redsurfer11
09-09-2007, 11:14 PM
We should see if Lowery would come out of retirement and coach him on his mechanics. Lowery often talked about what held him back for so many years was learning the mechanics of a good kick, but once he mastered it he became nearly automatic inside 45.

Lowery goy cut by 8 teams before he started to get it right. I'll give Medlock till the end of the season.We've got alot of young players who will make mistakes this year.Might as well let them play through them.I remember Kevin Ross's first game,got burned for 160 yards and a couple of TD's against the Steelers Louis Lipps. I'm sure there were alot of Chiefs fans that wanted the to dump Ross after that start.

OctoberFart
09-09-2007, 11:17 PM
What good is a powerful leg if you can't hit it straight. Fat ass Sea Bass missed a couple today also.

Logical
09-09-2007, 11:24 PM
I find it funny that so many people are willing to be patient with the kicker but so many don't want Brodie starting. Not sure they are the same people mind you.

I just don't see the logic that does not have they young QB if you are going to put up with the young kicker.

unlurking
09-09-2007, 11:35 PM
I find it funny that so many people are willing to be patient with the kicker but so many don't want Brodie starting. Not sure they are the same people mind you.

I just don't see the logic that does not have they young QB if you are going to put up with the young kicker.
I found that very strange as well.

LanceHunter
09-09-2007, 11:50 PM
No matter how Medlock does this season, I can sure think of a few positions we could have used a 5th round draft pick for, what a total fookin waste of that pick. My 2 cents is that he play out the season, so there will be no doubt that Carl and Herm are clueless when it comes to the teams position priorities. Out of the 10's of millions of illegal aliens, has to be one that could fill carls shoes and save the team a few million, hell he'd proably have a cousin that can kick a soccer ball clear out of the end zone too for 50 bucks a game lol.

banyon
09-09-2007, 11:56 PM
Swap market: Place-kickers face constant change
By Len Pasquarelli

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=3007900



In 2004, itinerant kicker Lawrence Tynes ousted Morten Andersen, the leading scorer in NFL history, for the job as the Chiefs' placement specialist.


In his first three years in Kansas City, Tynes -- a native of Scotland who survived tours in the CFL and NFL Europe before getting a shot in the NFL -- converted 78.2 percent of his attempts and averaged 113.7 points. And for those efforts, he was traded to the Giants in May for a conditional seventh-round draft pick. That move came a month after the Chiefs invested a fifth-round choice on UCLA's Justin Medlock.


So, how's that whole revolving kicker thing going?


Well, on Monday, the Chiefs auditioned six free-agent kickers as potential replacements for Medlock, whose inconsistency in training camp and preseason was chronicled in the HBO series "Hard Knocks." That same day, the Giants took a long look at Dave Rayner, who produced 109 points for the Packers in 2006 but was beaten out in training camp by rookie Mason Crosby, a sixth-round choice.


The Chiefs weren't the only team looking at kickers; in fact, this week there were a dozen auditions around the league. Not surprising, a lot of incumbent place-kicking specialists are looking over their shoulders. Even veteran kickers acknowledge that it's not easy to keep your eye squarely on the ball when your head is on a swivel. After all, the next wide right can earn a guy his walking papers.


"It's a position where, if you've got a job, sometimes you still don't want to unpack your bags," said veteran kicker Olindo Mare, traded to the Saints this spring after spending his first 10 seasons with the Dolphins. "And if you're out of work, you always want to keep a bag packed with your cleats and workout stuff ready to go, because you never know when a team is going to call and want you to come [for an audition]. It's certainly not the most secure livelihood, you know?"


In the past 10 years, nearly 25 percent of all regular-season NFL contests have been determined by three points or less, the margin of a field goal. You'd think such a notable statistic would force clubs to seek security at the kicker position. But eight franchises, one-quarter of the league, will have new kickers for 2007, with more changes expected during the season. As the workouts this week reflected, several kickers are on shaky ground even before they attempt their first field goals of the regular season.


Job security? Forget it. Just nine kickers have been with their current teams for more than five seasons. For a job in which one of the primary barometers is length, it's ironic that longevity is anything but a strong suit.


Of the 32 projected starting kickers this season, just 11 are with their original franchises. Five of those 11 are still in the honeymoon phase (two seasons or less) with their teams.


"Sometimes, you've got to earn your stripes before you earn your first job," said the Colts' Adam Vinatieri, who started his career in NFL Europe before signing with the Patriots in 1996. "And then even after you get a job, it doesn't mean you've got security. The old saying about how you're only as good as your last kick? Well, I don't know if that's totally true. But it's kind of a profession for renters. Especially for the young guys, well, you don't want to get locked into a mortgage … because you just don't know. You could lose your job on a whim, and sometimes when you don't expect it. You don't have the luxury of relaxing very much."


Scott Cunningham/Getty Images

Billy Cundiff was released by the Falcons despite a solid preseason.

Case in point: Five-year veteran Billy Cundiff, a one-time solid kicker in Dallas who had floundered during recent seasons, seemed to have resuscitated his career this summer with the Falcons. He converted all but one of his field goal tries and led Atlanta in preseason scoring with 23 points, apparently locking up the job. Right?


Wrong. Just days before the preseason finale, Atlanta signed Matt Prater, cut from three different training camps. Prater made two of three field goal attempts in the final preseason game, was deemed by the Falcons' staff to have a markedly stronger leg than Cundiff, and was awarded the job despite never having kicked in a regular-season game.


So now Cundiff becomes part of the kicker subspecies. He joins the caravan of available players on the "ready lists" of teams around the league, a phone call away for any club unhappy with its current kicker and wanting to bring in a group of guys for auditions.


"It's weird, because you get to be a little fraternity," said long-time kicker Todd Peterson, who tried out for several teams last year after leaving the game following the 2005 season. "You go somewhere for a workout, look around, and there are three or four other guys [auditioning], as well. And you might go to work out for some other team a week or so later, and the same guys are there, too. You kind of pull for each other, even though you're all after the same job. But, yeah, it's like a traveling road show or something."


Veteran agent Paul Sheehy, who has counted many kickers among his clientele during his 20 years of representing NFL players, calls the band of unemployed kickers "the loop." Right now, the group consists of guys like Rayner, long-time veteran John Carney, Josh Huston (in camp with the Giants), Conner Hughes (Pittsburgh), Kevin Lovell (St. Louis), Nick Novak (Chicago), and Shane Andrus (Indianapolis).


During the 2007 preseason, Lovell, Hughes, Huston, Andrus, Rayner and Novak combined to convert all but one of their 18 field goal attempts. Lovell nailed all five field goal tries. But he wasn't about to oust 13-year Rams veteran Jeff Wilkins, one of the few kickers in the league with excellent security. And so now Lovell, who will probably kick in the league someday, keeps his cleats packed in case the phone rings.


"One thing you have to remind your [unemployed kickers] of is that they've got a singular job," said Sheehy, who lined up 17 different auditions for one client over a period of several years. "It's not like they're competing for one of maybe five or six linebacker spots on some roster. There's one job. Now all these guys have sort of a 'I'm better than the guy that I'm watching on TV' mentality. They have to feel that way. It's the nature of what they do and the confidence it takes to do it.


"But the thing is, as often as teams switch kickers, there really has to be something beyond the normal little bit of fear that forces a franchise to make a change. A team has to get to the point where it basically says, 'That's it, we're done with this guy.' So you sometimes have to sit back and wait for a team to make that determination, then have your guys ready when the opportunities present themselves. But, sure, you've also got kickers out there converting 78 percent of their kicks and getting [released]. That's when teams call the guys who happen to be in 'the loop' at that point. There are always more guys in 'the loop' than there are jobs to be had."


One out-of-work kicker who inexplicably hasn't made his way into "the loop" is Mike Vanderjagt. The former Indianapolis and Dallas placement specialist is still the most accurate field goal kicker in NFL history, with a conversion rate of 86.5 percent over nine years. Vanderjagt owns the league record for most consecutive field goal conversions (42), has eight 100-point seasons, and was on pace for a ninth when then-Dallas coach Bill Parcells released him after 10 games in 2006.


Vanderjagt, 37, had a few nibbles from NFL teams this spring, and agent Gil Scott continues to make calls for his client, but no club is biting. It's hard to believe that, in a job with such a high turnover rate, no general manager or coach has turned over his Rolodex to Vanderjagt's number and offered him a workout.


"It's like [Vanderjagt] suddenly fell off the face of the Earth," said one veteran kicker who asked to remain anonymous. "I mean, I know he had that run-in with [Peyton] Manning a few years ago, and from what I understand, he could be a royal pain in some ways. But the guy was a hell of a kicker. I'll tell you this much: If you ever doubted just how [tenuous] this job is, Vanderjagt is a reminder of how fickle things are for kickers."

boogblaster
09-09-2007, 11:57 PM
He deserves another shot..that said, if his problem doesn't go away..curb him ....

Skip Towne
09-10-2007, 12:01 AM
He deserves another shot..that said, if his problem doesn't go away quickly..curb him ....
Fixed it

kcpasco
09-10-2007, 12:47 AM
Why not try vanderjagt, he can't be any worse then what we got now. And who knows, we might actually get lucky for once and he kicks the way he did in Indy.

banyon
09-10-2007, 12:49 AM
Why not try vanderjagt, he can't be any worse then what we got now. And who knows, we might actually get lucky for once and he kicks the way he did in Indy.

Two posts and you already deserve some rep.

SNR
09-10-2007, 01:00 AM
Vanderjagt doesn't solve our problems.

Dave Rayner, anybody?

Logical
09-10-2007, 01:00 AM
Why not try vanderjagt, he can't be any worse then what we got now. And who knows, we might actually get lucky for once and he kicks the way he did in Indy.I would sort of like to see them keep him and also bring in either Carney or Vanderjagt for field goals until he gets his problem straightened out.

So some scrub gets cut, do we really think our scrubs are going to be scoured by anybody but the Raiders?

Count Alex's Losses
09-10-2007, 01:02 AM
I'd give Medlock two more games. If he's still shanking 30-yarders, sign Jon Carney for the balance of the season. But keep Medlock around, and see if he improves next offseason. If he doesn't, cut his ass.

Stinger
09-10-2007, 01:06 AM
I'd give Medlock two more games. If he's still shanking 30-yarders, sign Jon Carney for the balance of the season. But keep Medlock around, and see if he improves next offseason. If he doesn't, cut his ass.

So it is like the DV era? Have a kicker a, kO specialist, and a punter? Also who gives up their spot on the 53 man for that extra roster spot he is supposidly gong to take?

Count Alex's Losses
09-10-2007, 01:09 AM
So it is like the DV era? Have a kicker a, kO specialist, and a punter? Also who gives up their spot on the 53 man for that extra roster spot he is supposidly gong to take?

The DV era never featured a KO specialist.

The Chiefs have to keep Medlock around because of his potential. The dude was an ELITE college kicker. We can easily dump a linebacker (Nate Harris) or a safety (Chad Williams) or something.

banyon
09-10-2007, 01:14 AM
The DV era never featured a KO specialist.

The Chiefs have to keep Medlock around because of his potential. The dude was an ELITE college kicker. We can easily dump a linebacker (Nate Harris) or a safety (Chad Williams) or something.

uh, no. (http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/rosters.nsf/Annual/2002-kc)

unlurking
09-10-2007, 01:18 AM
uh, no. (http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/rosters.nsf/Annual/2002-kc)
Yep, Morten wasn't able to kick-off.

Count Alex's Losses
09-10-2007, 01:19 AM
Hmmm. That's weird. I don't remember that. In any case, it was only for one year. Did Mort get hurt? I remember Husted kicking a game winning FG in 2002.

unlurking
09-10-2007, 01:21 AM
Yeah, it wasn't for long. The problem was Mort couldn't get past the 15-20 on kick-offs.

Hell, he couldn't even get the distance on a field goal over 40. I remember watching some 35ers just barely squeak over.

Count Alex's Losses
09-10-2007, 01:24 AM
Yeah, it wasn't for long. The problem was Mort couldn't get past the 15-20 on kick-offs.

Hell, he couldn't even get the distance on a field goal over 40. I remember watching some 35ers just barely squeak over.

Did he kick off in '03?

unlurking
09-10-2007, 01:39 AM
According to nfl.com, no.

http://www.nfl.com/players/mortenandersen/profile?id=AND020258

Bill S Preston
09-10-2007, 01:46 AM
I watched Medlock all through college, and I don't know what the hell is wrong with him. He had a very strong leg and routinely made long field goals throughout his career at UCLA. If he keeps up this crappy performance, he'll run out of second chances.

huskerdooz
09-10-2007, 02:39 AM
Meanwhile, Mason Crosby hit a game-winner for Green Bay.

Damit Carl :banghead:

ChiefsCountry
09-10-2007, 02:58 AM
Did he kick off in '03?

It was Jason Baker the punter.

mcan
09-10-2007, 03:01 AM
If we were contending, I'd say get another kicker ASAP. But the fact is, this whole team is going to take some lumps, and if this kid has the potential to be the next Elam or Vinatieri then we ought to let him get his jitters out of him. I mean, he missed an easy field goal, sure... But frankly, losing 20-3 is the same as losing 20-6.

Deberg_1990
09-10-2007, 03:08 AM
I wonder what Jon Baker is doing these days??



hahahaha

HonestChieffan
09-10-2007, 07:05 AM
Settle down. We have the best left footed black kicker in the NFL. Take some pride in what we have.

StcChief
09-10-2007, 07:21 AM
Let it be for now.

htismaqe
09-10-2007, 08:33 AM
Why are his mechanics so screwed up?? Do College kickers have to change much to adjust to the pro game???

Nate Kaeding did a radio interview while he was home for Christmas his rookie year.

He said that the K-ball alone makes a HUGE difference.

htismaqe
09-10-2007, 08:35 AM
At least we'll never have to worry about Medlock shanking a PAT.

We'll never attempt any...

HonestChieffan
09-10-2007, 08:57 AM
Herm will opt to go for two.

Lzen
09-10-2007, 09:03 AM
Your poll is lame. How about an option for someone other than Vanderjagt this is still young enough to play? :rolleyes:

Logical
09-10-2007, 12:05 PM
Your poll is lame. How about an option for someone other than Vanderjagt this is still young enough to play? :rolleyes:

Carney is in the poll.

Logical
09-10-2007, 12:07 PM
If we were contending, I'd say get another kicker ASAP. But the fact is, this whole team is going to take some lumps, and if this kid has the potential to be the next Elam or Vinatieri then we ought to let him get his jitters out of him. I mean, he missed an easy field goal, sure... But frankly, losing 20-3 is the same as losing 20-6.

If we would go with Brodie then this would make sense and I would agree.

NY CHIEF
09-10-2007, 12:13 PM
He's gone folks the chiefs signed dave rayner from green bay :harumph:

SNR
09-10-2007, 12:28 PM
Vanderjagt doesn't solve our problems.

Dave Rayner, anybody?
Nobody wants to give me any love? You all suck.

Lzen
09-10-2007, 12:36 PM
Carney is in the poll.

I said someone young enough to still play. What is Carney? Like 50?