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View Full Version : Where would we be with Al Saunders as head coach?


Pestilence
09-10-2007, 10:23 AM
Considering that Al Saunders was a head coach possibility at the time that we hired Herm...

Where would we be with Al Saunders as the head coach?

Hailchief
09-10-2007, 10:24 AM
0-1

oldandslow
09-10-2007, 10:24 AM
I voted better, because we simply couldn't be much worse.

ChiTown
09-10-2007, 10:25 AM
This is about talent, or lack thereof - Not coaching, imo.

Mr. Laz
09-10-2007, 10:26 AM
no way to know really


i'm pretty convinced that we would be better offensively. But we have no idea what our defense would be like.


:shrug:

Pestilence
09-10-2007, 10:27 AM
This is about talent, or lack thereof - Not coaching, imo.
That's what I'm thinking. We'd still have Green as our QB...and Dante as our slot WR. It'd constantly be WR screen or reverse plays. And our defense would be worse than they are now.

Fish
09-10-2007, 10:28 AM
The question is pointless....

Mr. Laz
09-10-2007, 10:28 AM
This is about talent, or lack thereof - Not coaching, imo.
you really think this offense has a talent level so below our previous one to take it from number 1 in the league to #32?

no way



coaching plays it's part

Iowanian
09-10-2007, 10:29 AM
...and Al Saunders has been hired as a head coach by whom since the Chiefs let him go?


0-1 looking at an impending ass beating of his 40 year old Circus offense by Chicago.

Sure-Oz
09-10-2007, 10:30 AM
Look at how badass the redskins O is with him!!!111111111

Woodrow Call
09-10-2007, 10:31 AM
Worse.

The offense decline was going to happen regardless IMO but the defense wouldn't be as good.

This team needs alot of talent. What you are seeing right now is the result 7+ yrs of crappy drafting.

If nothing else Herm should draft well enough to stockpile talent for the next coach.

Pestilence
09-10-2007, 10:31 AM
Well free to hijack this thread and turn it into another poop/doom and gloom thread.

Iowanian
09-10-2007, 10:32 AM
If Al Saunders were NFL Head Coach material....he'd have been given his shot again.

He's not.....For whatever reason.....he's not.

ChiTown
09-10-2007, 10:32 AM
you really think this offense has a talent level so below our previous one to take it from number 1 in the league to #32?

no way



coaching plays it's part

Since DV left:

No Willie Roaf, No Will Shields, aging Eddie Kennison and Gonzo, still don't have a decent RT, and a QB that is much worse than Trent was in 2005. Yeah, it's possible.

Mr. Laz
09-10-2007, 10:35 AM
Since DV left:

No Willie Roaf, No Will Shields, aging Eddie Kennison and Gonzo, still don't have a decent RT, and a QB that is much worse than Trent was in 2005. Yeah, it's possible.
so why are we wasting money on a head coach ...... just let the ball boy coach the team.


seriously ..... if coaching doesn't matter then why are coaches making 4/5 million a year now in the NFL?

StcChief
09-10-2007, 10:35 AM
Still come down to talent. too many blown drafts

DaneMcCloud
09-10-2007, 10:36 AM
Who knows? Would the Chiefs be worse on defense and offense? Would the drafts have been as successful?

There are some questions that can never be answered.

ChiTown
09-10-2007, 10:37 AM
so why are we wasting money on a head coach ...... just let the ball boy coach the team.


seriously ..... if coaching doesn't matter then why are coaches making 4/5 million a year now in the NFL?

Uh, where did I say it doesn't matter?

I said our suckage is about talent. Paul Brown, in his day, couldn't coach this hapless group of offensive suckholes to Glory.

Mr. Laz
09-10-2007, 10:38 AM
Uh, where did I say it doesn't matter?

I said our suckage is about talent. Paul Brown, in his day, couldn't coach this hapless group of offensive suckholes to Glory.
i see .... coaching does matter


just not with a team as crappy as this ..... got it. :thumb:



i guess i just misunderstood

unlurking
09-10-2007, 10:39 AM
so why are we wasting money on a head coach ...... just let the ball boy coach the team.


seriously ..... if coaching doesn't matter then why are coaches making 4/5 million a year now in the NFL?
Because they are supposed to find a way to replace the good player, either through FA, draft, developing in-house etc. The problem IMO is that we lost a lot of great people very quickly, and I don't think a coach can fix that (unless he sees it coming and can plan ahead, which Herm did not have the option of and Al/DV did not do).

ChiTown
09-10-2007, 10:42 AM
i see .... coaching does matter


just not with a team as crappy as this ..... got it. :thumb:



i guess i just misunderstood

Si.

On top of that, Herm is the WRONG guy for this team. You have to have a very efficient Offense (no where close to having this) and a stingy D (which he may have) in order for Herm to be successful. I am not a big fan of his brand of football. It's kind of like Martyball lite.

Mr. Laz
09-10-2007, 10:44 AM
Because they are supposed to find a way to replace the good player, either through FA, draft, developing in-house etc. The problem IMO is that we lost a lot of great people very quickly, and I don't think a coach can fix that (unless he sees it coming and can plan ahead, which Herm did not have the option of and Al/DV did not do).
how many playoff games did all those "great players" win?

HemiEd
09-10-2007, 10:49 AM
you really think this offense has a talent level so below our previous one to take it from number 1 in the league to #32?

no way



coaching plays it's part
Yep

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-10-2007, 10:53 AM
If Saunders was our coach, Green wouldn't have gotten killed in 06, because Roaf still would have been here and Black and Turley wouldn't have been the turnstiles on our O-line. Plus, we wouldn't have had the country club camp that left our players completely unprepared for the Cincy game.

Our defense really isn't any better than it was in '05. There was no real difference in PPG allowed, despite the fact that we played a much harder schedule in '05 than '06.

Just because Herm is a defensive coach doesn't mean he knows anything about how to put together a good defense. He dismantled a pretty good 3-4 with the Jets, and is just copying what some of his old buddies did in Tampa. It's not like he's creative.

StcChief
09-10-2007, 10:54 AM
We'd still be bitchin' in Chiefs Hell.... just like today.

unlurking
09-10-2007, 10:55 AM
how many playoff games did all those "great players" win?
Which has nothing to do with the argument about talent level on the offense, unless you are saying we DV and Al fielded good defense and the offense lost us games?

DaneMcCloud
09-10-2007, 10:55 AM
We'd still be bitchin' in Chiefs Hell.... just like today.

Bingo.

KCBOSS1
09-10-2007, 11:11 AM
That's what I'm thinking. We'd still have Green as our QB...and Dante as our slot WR. It'd constantly be WR screen or reverse plays. And our defense would be worse than they are now.

as opposed to the 20 screen/dink & dunk passes we threw yesterday?

We'd be 1 & 0

Deberg_1990
09-10-2007, 11:24 AM
Kris Wilson: Enough said..

suds79
09-10-2007, 11:26 AM
I think we'd be about the same given the age of the team and the rebuilding process that has finally hit us.

We avoided it for years. Can't avoid it anymore.

The only difference is that we'd have more migit WRs. :shake:

mcan
09-10-2007, 11:50 AM
It's all speculation, but I think we'd be way better off. By the way, it's not like we're fielding a bunch of scrubs out there. And you guys who want to throw this offensive line under the bus forget that Damon Huard had a pretty good pocket yesterday. He only made a couple bad throws, but that one that got picked by an offensive lineman was TERRIBLE. He did that a couple of times last year too, and they harmlessly bounced off the guy's chest.

tk13
09-10-2007, 11:53 AM
I really don't know the answer to the question, but I think Saunders gets a bad rap on here. I'm honestly not sure what kind of HC he'd be, I think he's an excellent offensive coordinator. There probably aren't 4-5 guys I'd put ahead of him, if that. He does a good job of setting up a gameplan. Look at that Skins game yesterday... as much as he gets blasted for being cute, he wore Miami's defense down, and that's a good defense. By the time OT rolled around, he was just running the football every single down, over and over, right down their throats until they got in FG range. It was impressive.

The Rick
09-10-2007, 01:33 PM
If Saunders was our coach, Green wouldn't have gotten killed in 06, because Roaf still would have been here and Black and Turley wouldn't have been the turnstiles on our O-line. Plus, we wouldn't have had the country club camp that left our players completely unprepared for the Cincy game.
So now it's Herm's fault that Green got knocked silly?

ROFL

Green's injury was nothing more than a freak, unfortunate accident. Even with Roaf and our dominate line, I recall seeing Green take off running numerous times.

ct
09-10-2007, 01:46 PM
0-1 after a 45-38 loss

ct
09-10-2007, 01:47 PM
So now it's Herm's fault that Green got knocked silly?

ROFL

Green's injury was nothing more than a freak, unfortunate accident. Even with Roaf and our dominate line, I recall seeing Green take off running numerous times.

Actually it is Herm's fault, for messin w/ the Arrowhead Sea of Red mojo and putting us in the tighty wighties at home on the season opener.

dtebbe
09-10-2007, 01:52 PM
#1 on offense
#32 on defense

still not able to win a playoff game

ChiefsCountry
09-10-2007, 01:57 PM
Saunders would probally do what happened to him in San Diego, take over for that offense when it was unstoppable, its players got old and then it when into the crappier.

blueballs
09-10-2007, 02:04 PM
Saunders would be a legion
he would only have gotten hired over Carl's dead body

BigRock
09-10-2007, 02:05 PM
If Saunders was our coach, Green wouldn't have gotten killed in 06, because Roaf still would have been here and Black and Turley wouldn't have been the turnstiles on our O-line. Plus, we wouldn't have had the country club camp that left our players completely unprepared for the Cincy game.
Roaf was never coming back and he certainly wasn't going to do it for a tougher training camp. On more than one occasion, Roaf has cited getting run into the ground during Vermeil's practices as the reason he hung it up.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-10-2007, 02:07 PM
So now it's Herm's fault that Green got knocked silly?

ROFL

Green's injury was nothing more than a freak, unfortunate accident. Even with Roaf and our dominate line, I recall seeing Green take off running numerous times.

He was running for his life that entire game. He ran more in that one half than I've ever seen him run in any game.

Brock
09-10-2007, 02:16 PM
Roaf still would have been here

No, he wouldn't have.

Logical
09-10-2007, 02:25 PM
If Al Saunders would have been hired King Carl would be gone and we would have a new GM. Al Saunders was not a yes man which is why he did not get the job and why Herm did.

Deberg_1990
09-10-2007, 02:33 PM
If Al Saunders would have been hired King Carl would be gone and we would have a new GM. Al Saunders was not a yes man which is why he did not get the job and why Herm did.

Now thats an interesting theory.,..

htismaqe
09-10-2007, 02:37 PM
It's really not a theory anymore.

It's more or less public knowledge that there was a great deal of animosity between Carl and Al.

DJJasonp
09-10-2007, 02:44 PM
If Al Saunders would have been hired King Carl would be gone and we would have a new GM. Al Saunders was not a yes man which is why he did not get the job and why Herm did.

Amen to this...

I am so sick and tired of the chiefs organization being run like a good 'ol boy network where people are hired because they're friends or UCLA alumni or whatever sad connection to Carl Peterson or the front office they might have.

This is why, as long as CP is the GM, we will NEVER take a chance on the likes of a Sean Payton or a John Gruden...or any unproven...(dare I say it...imaginative or creative) head coach.

Sure, those experiments fail from time to time, but they often produce huge dividends.

I think the Hunt family need to put into practice with their GM/coaching staff the same philosophy Herm has about QB's....growing our own....and discard the old retreads (starting with just about anyone involved in player talent evaluation over the course of the past 18 years).

BigRock
09-10-2007, 02:46 PM
If Al Saunders was our head coach:

- The defense would be just as bad as it was under Vermeil.

- The offense would have been no better than the Redskins' was last year, since we're no longer capable of running it like Al used to.

- The same old guys from Vermeil's staff would be evaluating talent, so the drafts would be mediocre.

- ChiefsPlanet would be full of posts calling for Saunders' job, citing his days in San Diego and wondering why anyone would be so stupid as to give him a second chance.

- Other, more reflective posters would point out that Al is DV's boy and, problems between Al and Carl aside, giving Saunders the HC job was just another boy's club hiring to keep it all in the family. So it was really all Carl's fault.

- Some would be calling for DV to return. Others would want Marty.

- Ultimately, the consensus would be that we needed to do something different. That Carl should have recognized Vermeil's way wasn't working and taken the team in a different direction. We should have hired a defensive coach. One who can get his teams to the playoffs. Maybe one who's somehow connected to both Marty and Vermeil.

- Someone would sigh heavily while bringing up the rumor that the Chiefs wanted Herm Edwards, and there would be much :banghead: and :cuss: and "DAMMIT CARL" for not following through on it.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-10-2007, 03:07 PM
Guys:

Herm is not a good defensive coach. He proved it in NY, and he's going to prove it here. He's a lowest common denominator dipshit. He uses the Cover 2 because his buddy had success with multiple hall of famers in implementing it in Tampa, and his buddy uses it because Pittsburgh had success using it with multiple HOF'ers in the 70's.

The Chiefs were 11th in the league in points allowed last year, they were 16th in 2005. They improved from 22nd in yards allowed to 15th.

HOWEVER....

They played the worst division in football in '06 in the NFC West and the worst offensive team in memory...twice.

The '05 Chiefs played the best of the NFC divisions, the East, and played a much tougher overall schedule. They played better offenses than did their '06 counterpart.

If not for the NFC West and the Oakland Raiders, Herm 's team was 3-8, including the playoffs.

That was the real team we had last year. Lest we forget, we escaped by the skin of our teeth against Arizona, Seattle, and Oakland (at home of all places).

We allowed one fewer point per game and dropped from 1st to 15th in yardage in one f*cking year.


We were the beneficiaries of a ridiculously easy schedule last year. It's not so easy this year, and Herm will be exposed again for the fraud that he is.

We gave up 30 points as many times in '06 as we did in '05, and did it to inferior opponents.

We got shredded by Derek Anderson, Quinn Gray, David Garrard, a concussed Ben Roethlisberger in his only real solid start of the year, and Matt Leinart in his first NFL start.


Yesterday, we got carved up by Matt Schaub.

This is not, in any way shape or form a good football team, and more importantly, a good defensive team.

Almost anyone could have gotten the Chiefs to 9-7 last year with their HFA and schedule...just because Herm pulled a monkey out of his ass in the last day to get us in doesn't obscure the fact that we have one of the worst head coaches in the league.

Saunders could not do any worse than this piece of shit.

Tribal Warfare
09-10-2007, 03:11 PM
Who thinks Krumrie should be the new HC/DC :D :p

King_Chief_Fan
09-10-2007, 03:18 PM
Guys:

Herm is not a good defensive coach. He proved it in NY, and he's going to prove it here. He's a lowest common denominator dipshit. He uses the Cover 2 because his buddy had success with multiple hall of famers in implementing it in Tampa, and his buddy uses it because Pittsburgh had success using it with multiple HOF'ers in the 70's.

The Chiefs were 11th in the league in points allowed last year, they were 16th in 2005. They improved from 22nd in yards allowed to 15th.

HOWEVER....

They played the worst division in football in '06 in the NFC West and the worst offensive team in memory...twice.

The '05 Chiefs played the best of the NFC divisions, the East, and played a much tougher overall schedule. They played better offenses than did their '06 counterpart.

If not for the NFC West and the Oakland Raiders, Herm 's team was 3-8, including the playoffs.

That was the real team we had last year. Lest we forget, we escaped by the skin of our teeth against Arizona, Seattle, and Oakland (at home of all places).

We allowed one fewer point per game and dropped from 1st to 15th in yardage in one f*cking year.


We were the beneficiaries of a ridiculously easy schedule last year. It's not so easy this year, and Herm will be exposed again for the fraud that he is.

We gave up 30 points as many times in '06 as we did in '05, and did it to inferior opponents.

We got shredded by Derek Anderson, Quinn Gray, David Garrard, a concussed Ben Roethlisberger in his only real solid start of the year, and Matt Leinart in his first NFL start.


Yesterday, we got carved up by Matt Schaub.

This is not, in any way shape or form a good football team, and more importantly, a good defensive team.

Almost anyone could have gotten the Chiefs to 9-7 last year with their HFA and schedule...just because Herm pulled a monkey out of his ass in the last day to get us in doesn't obscure the fact that we have one of the worst head coaches in the league.

Saunders could not do any worse than this piece of shit.

There isn't anything to disagree with in the post above:thumb: