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Buddy Rich
09-10-2007, 02:49 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3012989

Donger
09-10-2007, 02:50 PM
Wow.

Amnorix
09-10-2007, 02:51 PM
Possibly, at least. Could cost us draft picks, apparently, if proved, and should.

Sad, really, if true, but I don't really know enough about it to comment on it.

Planetman
09-10-2007, 02:52 PM
Uh oh ...

Chiefnj2
09-10-2007, 02:53 PM
Interesting. I guess the league couldn't/didn't want to prove anything from the GB incident.

Lzen
09-10-2007, 02:53 PM
Wow.

No kidding. Unfortunately, I think a lot of teams do this. Some are more inconspicuous than others.

crazycoffey
09-10-2007, 02:55 PM
I've wondered about this before. Why, in the name of Black ops, wouldn't you have a "secretive" plan to learn more about the opposition.

The scout division, they have a team of three or four people, their job is to capture as many images as possible, and break the code, etc all for the benefit of your team.

HOWEVER! What idiots they are, to have someone from their team in thier colors on the sideline shooting a video camera at the other team's coachs.

talastan
09-10-2007, 02:55 PM
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Boy, Goodell is getting his on the job experience this year, isn't he?

the Talking Can
09-10-2007, 02:55 PM
awesome

ct
09-10-2007, 02:55 PM
Holy smokes...Belichick truly is a genious!!

Valiant
09-10-2007, 02:57 PM
Ouch.. let them have the draft pick and just give the Jets the win of 14-0, and erase all stats for the pats for that day..

Need something to save me in FF from Brady...

cadmonkey
09-10-2007, 02:57 PM
my question is this, why would they need to have someone go rigth over to their sideline to take video and photos? I mean with the way cameras are these days why not just have someone sitting in the stands with a good zoom lens? or even have a coach up in the booth do it?

i mean to be so close as to give the coaches a hand job is just to obvious.

christ I hope this isn't true.

Warrior5
09-10-2007, 02:58 PM
Wow; I certainly hope this isn't true.

I expect stuff like this from Denver, but not the Pats...

Valiant
09-10-2007, 02:58 PM
Oh I am surprised PercySnow has not made up another thread already...

Sure-Oz
09-10-2007, 03:01 PM
You'd think this video would only help them the next time they play, vs the current game.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-10-2007, 03:01 PM
Does this really surprise anyone??

Look at how BB manipulates the injury report every week.

Simplex3
09-10-2007, 03:01 PM
LMAO

Amnorix
09-10-2007, 03:05 PM
While not excused by such, I'm sure that the Pats are niether the first nor the last to try to steal signals or whatever by deceptive means.

Just another skirmish int he Pats/Jets border war.

Buddy Rich
09-10-2007, 03:07 PM
You'd think this video would only help them the next time they play, vs the current game.

from the espn article-

"The league also is investigating some radio frequency issues that occurred during the game"

"In fact, Green Bay Packers president Bob Harlan confirmed a similar incident that occurred when the Patriots played at Lambeau Field last Nov. 19. The same cameraman who was questioned by NFL security on Sunday was also the one whom the Packers removed from the sideline and escorted from the field during their 2006 game, according to Packers security official Doug Collins.

"From what I can remember, he had quite a fit when we took him out," Harlan said. "We had gotten word before the game that they [the Patriots] did this sort of thing, so we were looking for it."

Donger
09-10-2007, 03:09 PM
Possibly, at least. Could cost us draft picks, apparently, if proved, and should.

Sad, really, if true, but I don't really know enough about it to comment on it.

Is losing draft picks next year really much punishment, especially if the Patriots win the SB this year?

Iowanian
09-10-2007, 03:09 PM
Well what do you expect?

They Do have Randaaaaay Moss now, and need to keep his street cred up.

MGRS13
09-10-2007, 03:12 PM
Billy B. is awesome I love him the Pats are very lucky to have him as coach. If you're not cheating you're not trying.

Amnorix
09-10-2007, 03:18 PM
Is losing draft picks next year really much punishment, especially if the Patriots win the SB this year?

No, not really. But neither is whatever we did yesterday impactful on yesterday's game. Might have affected the next Jets game, however.

Don't get me wrong, I don't condone cheating, but IMHO about 80+% of hte NFL is 'roided up, everyone spends all their time tryign to figureout the other team's "tells", what goes on at the bottom of a scrum after a fumble isn't anything that any player's mom would be proud to hear their little boy was doing, etc.

If the Pats did do something illegal, then they should be punished in a manner that would discourage them AND every other NFL team from doing similar acts. Because if the Pats aren't, you can bet your ass that the other teams will be right behind them.

dtebbe
09-10-2007, 03:18 PM
I think they do this stuff just to pshch out thier opponents, any info they do "steal" is just an added bonus. They are so far inside the opposing team's heads by game day it's funny.

DT

Donger
09-10-2007, 03:22 PM
No, not really. But neither is whatever we did yesterday impactful on yesterday's game. Might have affected the next Jets game, however.

Don't get me wrong, I don't condone cheating, but IMHO about 80+% of hte NFL is 'roided up, everyone spends all their time tryign to figureout the other team's "tells", what goes on at the bottom of a scrum after a fumble isn't anything that any player's mom would be proud to hear their little boy was doing, etc.

If the Pats did do something illegal, then they should be punished in a manner that would discourage them AND every other NFL team from doing similar acts. Because if the Pats aren't, you can bet your ass that the other teams will be right behind them.

If it is proven that the Patriots interfered with the play calling of the Jets, I hope that they are excluded from post-season play. Taking away draft picks isn't enough, IMO.

Amnorix
09-10-2007, 03:25 PM
If it is proven that the Patriots interfered with the play calling of the Jets, I hope that they are excluded from post-season play. Taking away draft picks isn't enough, IMO.

It is very hard for me to interpret the "radio frequency" thing, but I can't imagine that they interfered with Jets playcalling. First, they had no delay of game penalties or other confusion, from what I could see, regarding their play-calling.

Second, they were AT the Jets, so their ability to monkey with the Jets headsets, etc., would seem extremely limited, from my non-technical point of view.

I agree -- if we use technological or other means to actuall foul up the Jets play-calling during a game, then a very heavy punishment should be handed out. Exclusion from post-season play is ludicrous, however. Forfeiture of the game is the right penalty.

Chiefnj2
09-10-2007, 03:28 PM
All the more reason to give a defensive player a helmet with a microphone to receive plays from the DC.

HolmeZz
09-10-2007, 03:31 PM
Possibly, at least. Could cost us draft picks, apparently, if proved, and should.

Sad, really, if true, but I don't really know enough about it to comment on it.

F*ck just the draft picks. Should cost them a forfeit.

Donger
09-10-2007, 03:31 PM
It is very hard for me to interpret the "radio frequency" thing, but I can't imagine that they interfered with Jets playcalling. First, they had no delay of game penalties or other confusion, from what I could see, regarding their play-calling.

Second, they were AT the Jets, so their ability to monkey with the Jets headsets, etc., would seem extremely limited, from my non-technical point of view.

I agree -- if we use technological or other means to actuall foul up the Jets play-calling during a game, then a very heavy punishment should be handed out. Exclusion from post-season play is ludicrous, however. Forfeiture of the game is the right penalty.

Depending on the radio frequency spectrum used, it is either very simple or moderately difficult. Regardless, I assume that the Jets (and every other team) can use hand signals or voice, right?

Mile High Mania
09-10-2007, 03:35 PM
Cheaters...

HolmeZz
09-10-2007, 03:35 PM
Does this really surprise anyone??

Look at how BB manipulates the injury report every week.

Or threatening Brad Childress not to pick up one of the players they had cut before the season.

The Patriots are not a classy organization. One of the bigger misconceptions in sports. Belichick is a dick and Brady is 2nd in the league to Travis Henry in baby-to-mama ratio.

tk13
09-10-2007, 03:39 PM
Doesn't surprise me, Belichick is ruthless.

tiptap
09-10-2007, 03:40 PM
It is very hard for me to interpret the "radio frequency" thing, but I can't imagine that they interfered with Jets playcalling. First, they had no delay of game penalties or other confusion, from what I could see, regarding their play-calling.

Second, they were AT the Jets, so their ability to monkey with the Jets headsets, etc., would seem extremely limited, from my non-technical point of view.

I agree -- if we use technological or other means to actuall foul up the Jets play-calling during a game, then a very heavy punishment should be handed out. Exclusion from post-season play is ludicrous, however. Forfeiture of the game is the right penalty.

How about just picking up the play call by intercepting the frequency? I mean does it help a defense to know the play being run even if it is simply this play is meant to be a pass and this one a run?

Buddy Rich
09-10-2007, 03:40 PM
How about just picking up the play call by intercepting the frequency? I mean does it help a defense to know the play being run even if it is simply this play is meant to be a pass and this one a run?

that's what I'm thinking.

morphius
09-10-2007, 03:41 PM
Cheaters...
I know I heard on ESPN a few years ago about some guy that looks like a rat who used lip readers to try to read what the team was doing...

Mr. Laz
09-10-2007, 03:47 PM
Sources: Camera confiscated after claims of Pats spying on Jets

By Chris Mortensen
ESPN.com

Updated: September 10, 2007, 4:38 PM ET

NFL security confiscated a video camera and its tape from a New England Patriots employee on the team's sideline during Sunday's game against the Jets in a suspected spying incident, sources said.

The camera and its tape were placed in a sealed box and forwarded to the league office for investigation, the sources said.

"We don't have any comment," an NFL spokesman said Monday.

The Patriots' cameraman was suspected of aiming his camera at the Jets' defensive coaches who were sending signals to their unit on the field, the sources said. The league also is investigating some radio frequency issues that occurred during the game.

The league's competition committee could conduct a conference call about the incident, which violates NFL policy, and ultimately recommend a penalty that could cost the Patriots a future draft pick or picks if it verifies that the team was spying on the Jets.

It's not their first time.

-- A member of the NFL's competition committee

"It's not their first time," a member of the committee, who did not wish to be identified, said.

In fact, Green Bay Packers president Bob Harlan confirmed a similar incident that occurred when the Patriots played at Lambeau Field last Nov. 19. The same cameraman who was questioned by NFL security on Sunday was also the one whom the Packers removed from the sideline and escorted from the field during their 2006 game, according to Packers security official Doug Collins.

"From what I can remember, he had quite a fit when we took him out," Harlan said. "We had gotten word before the game that they [the Patriots] did this sort of thing, so we were looking for it."

A Jets official declined comment Monday, directing an inquiry to the league office. The Patriots also did not have immediate comment.

Chris Mortensen covers the NFL for ESPN.

Rooster
09-10-2007, 03:48 PM
The Pats should be forced to trade Brady to us for Haurd, straight up. It's only fair. :)

Maybe some lineman too.

Deberg_1990
09-10-2007, 03:50 PM
Doesn't surprise me, Belichick is ruthless.

True, but hes good enough already. He doesnt need to stoop to cheating. Pretty dumb if true.

evolve27
09-10-2007, 03:50 PM
This won't stop the Patriots from winning it all. Nothing can stop the Patriots. The Patriots tower of Roger DoGoodell.

Mile High Mania
09-10-2007, 03:50 PM
I know I heard on ESPN a few years ago about some guy that looks like a rat who used lip readers to try to read what the team was doing...

I was listening to ESPN Radio and one of the talking heads (no, not a former Denver player) was saying that doing things "in game" to steal signs, etc was deemed "ok" by the NFL. If someone (coach or player) is motioning or talking and you can interpret that without the use of technology, so be it. The problem occurs when you are using technology and going above and beyond the normal "looking across the field" to steal information for current and future use.

I don't recall the incident you reference, not saying it didn't happen...

pikesome
09-10-2007, 03:51 PM
The Pats should be forced to trade Brady to us for Haurd, straight up. It's only fair. :)

Maybe some lineman too.

I'd settle for a GM.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-10-2007, 03:54 PM
Worst Case Scenario

If it is all true:

I would think that forfeiture of the game as well as all TV revenues for the year would be a good start to curbing this from happening again.

Crashride
09-10-2007, 03:55 PM
and the truth comes out...maybe

Saulbadguy
09-10-2007, 03:59 PM
death penalty...

crazycoffey
09-10-2007, 04:02 PM
I was listening to ESPN Radio and one of the talking heads (no, not a former Denver player) was saying that doing things "in game" to steal signs, etc was deemed "ok" by the NFL. If someone (coach or player) is motioning or talking and you can interpret that without the use of technology, so be it. The problem occurs when you are using technology and going above and beyond the normal "looking across the field" to steal information for current and future use.

I don't recall the incident you reference, not saying it didn't happen...


OK, so - note to Carl. Get some of your scout teams, or some other department, to watch all the chicago games from last year, this preseason and yesterday's game, then start breaking the code for the Defense's hand signals, get one of them to sit on the opposing sideline with a couple colored cards, in a position the Solari can easily see them. Put code on the colors, Red is Run D, Blue is a Zone coverage, etc. No technology, and the NFL won't do anything to us..... mmmmmm

Skip Towne
09-10-2007, 04:08 PM
I'll bet they learned it from the donkeys.

Mecca
09-10-2007, 04:12 PM
They aren't going to be made to forfeit the game, there's no way. There will probably be some fine maybe a dropping of a pick. I doubt it's anything to bad.

stevieray
09-10-2007, 04:13 PM
I'd bet that right now, there is a guy in a dark room going over their past playoff and SB games, trying to find this guy on film.

carlos3652
09-10-2007, 04:14 PM
they should strip all 3 SB's away... lol

They will get hit with draft pick loss (probably a late first day or early 2nd day pick or a cobination of both if true)

Amnorix
09-10-2007, 04:39 PM
they should strip all 3 SB's away... lol

They will get hit with draft pick loss (probably a late first day or early 2nd day pick or a cobination of both if true)

Jets fans forums -- no lie, have a couple people saying that Sundays game should be reversed (win for Jets), and Pats stripped of all 3 SBs. ROFL

Amnorix
09-10-2007, 04:42 PM
Or threatening Brad Childress not to pick up one of the players they had cut before the season.

The Patriots are not a classy organization. One of the bigger misconceptions in sports. Belichick is a dick and Brady is 2nd in the league to Travis Henry in baby-to-mama ratio.

errr....you're kidding right? You think BB is the only guy who calls and discusses with other teams "don't take my guy X and I won't take your guy Y"? I'm sure every NFL team does it. And how exactly does he "threaten" another NFL coach?

Belichick is a hard-nosed, win at nearly any costs guy. I could care less if he wears a hoodie or a god-damn pink tutu, and I don't care if he porks some guy's wife and I don't care if he has the personality of a computer engineer on prozac. He wins baby.

Your statement about Brady, however, is flat wrong. Dude is nails in every conceivable way.

And do NOT, for a second, stand there and lie to me and tell me you wouldn't trade your coach and QB for Belichick/Brady, because you, me and everybody on this board knows you would in a heartbeat.

Mecca
09-10-2007, 04:44 PM
I could careless how their organization runs or how much of a dick anyone is, they win and they win championships that's what matters.

I don't care if the people that run the team are the biggest assholes ever if they win championships that's it.

Amnorix
09-10-2007, 04:44 PM
I was listening to ESPN Radio and one of the talking heads (no, not a former Denver player) was saying that doing things "in game" to steal signs, etc was deemed "ok" by the NFL. If someone (coach or player) is motioning or talking and you can interpret that without the use of technology, so be it. The problem occurs when you are using technology and going above and beyond the normal "looking across the field" to steal information for current and future use.

I don't recall the incident you reference, not saying it didn't happen...

I'd say that's the right way to handle it. Normal vision, etc., fine. Using NSA classified equipment to steal signs -- not kosher.

StcChief
09-10-2007, 04:45 PM
Cheaters...
Kettle meet Pot.

Amnorix
09-10-2007, 04:45 PM
Worst Case Scenario

If it is all true:

I would think that forfeiture of the game as well as all TV revenues for the year would be a good start to curbing this from happening again.


ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

Wow, you're on serious drugs. Pass some over.

Amnorix
09-10-2007, 04:46 PM
Kettle meet Pot.

Least our "cheating" (if it is cheating) doesn't wreck people's knees, health, livelihood and careers...

gblowfish
09-10-2007, 04:46 PM
Spying was made perfectly legal by The Patriot Act.

So what's the big deal?

Mecca
09-10-2007, 04:47 PM
Least our "cheating" (if it is cheating) doesn't wreck people's knees, health, livelihood and careers...

People just are mad because your team is awesome, they can shockingly play defense and still score my god what a concept.

crazycoffey
09-10-2007, 04:48 PM
errr....you're kidding right? You think BB is the only guy who calls and discusses with other teams "don't take my guy X and I won't take your guy Y"? I'm sure every NFL team does it. And how exactly does he "threaten" another NFL coach?


Maybe BB threatened to screw his wife? :hmmm:

Bill Parcells
09-10-2007, 04:49 PM
This is supposedly the 3rd time this has gone down. the last time was last December against the Packers. and supposedly mumbles got an ear lashing from the league about it.

From the ESPN article-

Quote:
"It's not their first time," a member of the committee, who did not wish to be identified, said.


In fact, Green Bay Packers president Bob Harlan confirmed a similar incident that occurred when the Patriots played at Lambeau Field last Nov. 19. The same cameraman who was questioned by NFL security on Sunday was also the one whom the Packers removed from the sideline and escorted from the field during their 2006 game, according to Packers security official Doug Collins.

"From what I can remember, he had quite a fit when we took him out," Harlan said. "We had gotten word before the game that they [the Patriots] did this sort of thing, so we were looking for it."

StcChief
09-10-2007, 04:50 PM
Least our "cheating" (if it is cheating) doesn't wreck people's knees, health, livelihood and careers...
yeah. Donxs have a reputation to uphold....

I was surprised MHM would post a "cheating" on Pats.

ct
09-10-2007, 04:51 PM
Cheaters...

Admit it, that felt good, dinit?

Bill Parcells
09-10-2007, 04:52 PM
Possibly, at least. Could cost us draft picks, apparently, if proved, and should.

Sad, really, if true, but I don't really know enough about it to comment on it.
I think we should hold a public execution of Bill Bellichick, William Wallace style at the Meadowlands.

I think that would be appropriate punishment.

stevieray
09-10-2007, 04:55 PM
People just are mad because your team is awesome, they can shockingly play defense and still score my god what a concept.

You're just mad because you aren't awesome, shockingly you have no defense and still can't score. My goodness, what a concept.

Mecca
09-10-2007, 04:56 PM
Stevie Ray is here to give me some kool-aid.

Rooster
09-10-2007, 04:58 PM
Spying was made perfectly legal by The Patriot Act.

So what's the big deal?

ROFL ROFL It's cool then.

stevieray
09-10-2007, 05:00 PM
Stevie Ray is here to give me some kool-aid.

Mecca is here to give everyone some cyanide.

go_broncos
09-10-2007, 05:02 PM
CHEATERS.................
I hate them...

CURSE....THEY WILL NEVER WIN ANOTHER SB with Brady...............

crazycoffey
09-10-2007, 05:03 PM
Mecca is here to give everyone some cyanide.


you give him too much credit, he is giving me a headache though.....

Mecca
09-10-2007, 05:04 PM
The people who thought the Chiefs would make the playoffs are upset with me after the Chiefs looked like one of the worst teams in the league.......I'm really surprised I tell ya.

crazycoffey
09-10-2007, 05:07 PM
The people who thought the Chiefs would make the playoffs are upset with me after the Chiefs looked like one of the worst teams in the league.......I'm really surprised I tell ya.



don't be a defeatist, I'm not upset with you. I'm tired of your negative outlook on anything chief related. I was last year when I joined, and you said we wouldn't make the playoffs then.

Mecca says the world stopped spinning.... I'm really surprised I tell ya.

KC Dan
09-10-2007, 05:07 PM
Stevieray,
check pm's

stevieray
09-10-2007, 05:13 PM
The people who thought the Chiefs would make the playoffs are upset with me after the Chiefs looked like one of the worst teams in the league.......I'm really surprised I tell ya.

that's right poor little picked on mecca, it's all about you.

StcChief
09-10-2007, 05:15 PM
Spying was made perfectly legal by The Patriot Act.

So what's the big deal?
ROFL and the Patriots get special privilege by name alone.

Mecca
09-10-2007, 05:15 PM
don't be a defeatist, I'm not upset with you. I'm tired of your negative outlook on anything chief related. I was last year when I joined, and you said we wouldn't make the playoffs then.

Mecca says the world stopped spinning.... I'm really surprised I tell ya.

If there was something to be optimistic about I would be.....right now they look like one of the worst teams and are a national laughing stock.

There isn't anything nice to say about them, and they don't deserve it.

Bill Parcells
09-10-2007, 05:16 PM
The people who thought the Chiefs would make the playoffs are upset with me after the Chiefs looked like one of the worst teams in the league.......I'm really surprised I tell ya.
Stop hijacking a ****ing Bellichick cheating thread. and for gawds sakes stop defending the Patriots, you're making me physically ill reading your posts.

Mecca
09-10-2007, 05:18 PM
I could careless what the Pats do man, I just thought it was funny to see people outraged. They ass raped the Jets that is all, move on the Pats are the class of the league and that's that.

JBucc
09-10-2007, 05:20 PM
I think proper punishment would be the firing of the coach and GM. At least that's how I would want the Chiefs to be punished if they acted in such a manner.

Bill Parcells
09-10-2007, 05:20 PM
I could careless what the Pats do man, I just thought it was funny to see people outraged. They ass raped the Jets that is all, move on the Pats are the class of the league and that's that.
Oh, they were very good yesterday. and the Jets couldn't block anybody or stop the run.

Mecca
09-10-2007, 05:22 PM
That picture pretty much sums up the Pats/Jets also.

Brock
09-10-2007, 05:25 PM
Somebody is really fixated on ass-raping today. Must have been an interesting weekend.

Fairplay
09-10-2007, 06:12 PM
While not excused by such, I'm sure that the Pats are niether the first nor the last to try to steal signals or whatever by deceptive means.





They just got caught is all.

BucEyedPea
09-10-2007, 06:22 PM
If there was something to be optimistic about I would be.....right now they look like one of the worst teams and are a national laughing stock.

Oh heavens! So don't the Bucs. :deevee:

I hope this isn't true. Maybe they guy was spying on Mangini to see if M stole anything from Pat's playbook, since they had to lock him out when he left?
:p

Amnorix
09-10-2007, 07:45 PM
Stop hijacking a ****ing Bellichick cheating thread. and for gawds sakes stop defending the Patriots, you're making me physically ill reading your posts.

The whole thing barely makes sense. Wouldn't a high powered camera from somewhere in the stands make more sense than parading around in a Pats uniform?

I dunno. Seems weird, but what do I know?

Don't be bitter -- the Jets are just in a rebuilding mode (again). The Pats are a SB contender, and one of three or four elite teams in the NFL. I didn't expect the game to be very close, and it wasn't.

Rain Man
09-10-2007, 07:58 PM
That is a ridiculous rule, because there's no way it can be enforced. They should just do away with it, and it's each team's job to come up with signals that can't be stolen.

It's really hard to keep a secret in an open stadium with 70,000 people around.

Jenson71
09-10-2007, 07:58 PM
BB is too smart to be this dumb.

tk13
09-10-2007, 08:19 PM
The other weird thing, is if they'd been doing this for very long, obviously Mangini would've known about it since he was in NE.

Delano
09-10-2007, 08:21 PM
If there was something to be optimistic about I would be.....right now they look like one of the worst teams and are a national laughing stock.

There isn't anything nice to say about them, and they don't deserve it.

I read Whitlock finding some positive about the loss to Houston. The fact that he can do it and you can't shows me how deep you are in the doom-and-gloom well.

Buehler445
09-10-2007, 08:29 PM
BB is too smart to be this dumb.

Thats what I was thinking too. I think it would be easier to send someone in plain clothes to the opositions game and video tape and hijack audio there.

Dylan
09-10-2007, 08:44 PM
BB is a nut. The Jets do not have the players to play a 3-4 base, Brady could have played all day in his sweats, Moss could have changed into his tee-shirt after Brady stopped throwing at Revis.

(I/M/O) The only player that put pressure on the team and Randy Moss was the Jets first round draft pick rookie CB Darrelle Revis. Revis burned Moss twice -- and Brady never threw at him again.

Revis was a lengthy holdout in preseason, which ended in late August. He looked really good.

BB should have saved the camera for the Colts! lol

BigChiefFan
09-11-2007, 01:43 PM
Brady is the genuis, Bellichek is the beneficiary of that. I wouldn't be surprised if BB was cheating-he seems a little snaky.

Amnorix
09-11-2007, 01:53 PM
That is a ridiculous rule, because there's no way it can be enforced. They should just do away with it, and it's each team's job to come up with signals that can't be stolen.

It's really hard to keep a secret in an open stadium with 70,000 people around.

Actually, an interesting factoid:

In the NFL, of course, offenses can't have "signals" stolen because there's a direct link via radio from the coach to the QB's headset. Defenses, however, don't do this. It's been suggested that it be allowed, however, but 22 teams voted in favor, and 8 against, last year, to permit it.

I remember local radio asked BB about it, and he said he wasn't in favor of allowing defenses to do it. It seems like a no-brainer to allow it, but he had a number of valid reasons why it's not such a great thing. I don't remember them all now, but I remember thinking "oh, ok, that makes sense, whatever".

Now I wonder if part of his answer shouldn't have added "and how can we steal defensive signals if we switch to a headset system?"

:shake:

We'll see how this pans out, but i'm less than thrilled to have this stuff all over the news instead of our demolishment of the Jets or big game against hte Chargers.

Amnorix
09-11-2007, 01:53 PM
Brady is the genuis, Bellichek is the beneficiary of that. I wouldn't be surprised if BB was cheating-he seems a little snaky.
Wonderful insight. Thanks for that.


P.S. On morning radio yesterday, Brady said that Belichick, in his opinion, was the greatest coach in NFL history. So if you think Brady's a genius, then you must accept his commentary regarding his coach, no?

Link to full interview (second link down):

http://www.weei.com/pages/268228.php


If membership is required, it's free...

Bill Parcells
09-11-2007, 02:04 PM
The whole thing barely makes sense. Wouldn't a high powered camera from somewhere in the stands make more sense than parading around in a Pats uniform?

I dunno. Seems weird, but what do I know?

Don't be bitter -- the Jets are just in a rebuilding mode (again). The Pats are a SB contender, and one of three or four elite teams in the NFL. I didn't expect the game to be very close, and it wasn't.
Yeah, yeah. we here from you all the time how great the Pats are.

Try to be a little open minded instead of guzzling Belichicks nut sacks all the time.

BigChiefFan
09-11-2007, 02:07 PM
Wonderful insight. Thanks for that.


P.S. On morning radio yesterday, Brady said that Belichick, in his opinion, was the greatest coach in NFL history. So if you think Brady's a genius, then you must accept his commentary regarding his coach, no?

Link to full interview (second link down):

http://www.weei.com/pages/268228.php


If membership is required, it's free...
Yea, because Brady has been coached by so many other NFL head coaches, right?

Amnorix
09-11-2007, 02:24 PM
Yeah, yeah. we here from you all the time how great the Pats are.

Try to be a little open minded instead of guzzling Belichicks nut sacks all the time.

If you'd had him for more than 5 minutes as "the HC of the NYJ," you'd guzzle his nut sack too.
:p

Amnorix
09-11-2007, 02:26 PM
Yea, because Brady has been coached by so many other NFL head coaches, right?

Granted, but he's got Peyton Manning and alot of other very, VERY good players in this league programmed onto his cell phone. Plus he's played with guys who have been around -- Vinny Testaverde, Junior Seau, Rodney Harrison, Corey Dillon, and quite a few others.

But I'm sure none of them ever talk about how Belichick compares to other head coaches...

Amnorix
09-11-2007, 02:30 PM
Brady is the genuis, Bellichek is the beneficiary of that. I wouldn't be surprised if BB was cheating-he seems a little snaky.

Oh, and P.S., if Brady is a genius, then:

1. it's partly DUE to Belichick, since Belichick helped to coach him up to greatness (not that he might not have been great anyway, but...)

2. name me a genius/great head coach who DID NOT have one or more great QBs leading thier teams to multiple Super Bowls. Don't bother, I'll do it for you -- Joe Gibbs. That's it.

Everyone else had their QB too:

Lombardi --> Starr
Shula --> Unitas/Griese/Marino
JJ --> Aikman
Landry --> Staubach
Noll --> Bradshaw
Walsh --> Montana

Extra Point
09-11-2007, 02:30 PM
How do they get their game film? From Direct TV?

BigChiefFan
09-11-2007, 02:31 PM
Granted, but he's got Peyton Manning and alot of other very, VERY good players in this league programmed onto his cell phone. Plus he's played with guys who have been around -- Vinny Testaverde, Junior Seau, Rodney Harrison, Corey Dillon, and quite a few others.

But I'm sure none of them ever talk about how Belichick compares to other head coaches...So he's basing it on what others believe and not first hand experience. I'm so damn impressed that a young, QB who won 3 SBs is impressed with the head coach that actually gave him his start. Brady said it, so I believe it. :rolleyes: Don't you think Brady is a little biased? Also, he's NEVER had another NFL head coach so how the **** does he know? Answer:he doesn't.

Amnorix
09-11-2007, 02:31 PM
How do they get their game film? From Direct TV?

Teams trade game film directly, I understand. Coach's film is not the footage you see on TV.

KC Kings
09-11-2007, 02:32 PM
How is that cheating? Teams spend hours upon hours looking at game film, trying to find holes in the other teams game plans and to determine their tendencies. All they did was include the defensive coordinators hand calls. If they are really worried about the DC should squat down and give the signals right in front of his balls, like catchers do.

Amnorix
09-11-2007, 02:33 PM
So he's basing it on what others believe and not first hand experience. I'm so damn impressed that a young, QB who won 3 SBs is impressed with the head coach that actually gave him his start. Brady said it, so I believe it. :rolleyes: Don't you think Brady is a little biased? Also, he's NEVER had another NFL head coach so how the **** does he know? Answer:he doesn't.

ROFL Hater...

Extra Point
09-11-2007, 02:33 PM
I'm not going to boycott Velveeta over this.

el borracho
09-11-2007, 02:35 PM
If true, the head coach should be suspended for the season.

BigChiefFan
09-11-2007, 02:36 PM
ROFL Hater... I actually like Brady-he's the best in the NFL, IMO. I just don't take everything he says as the gospel.

Amnorix
09-11-2007, 02:45 PM
How is that cheating? Teams spend hours upon hours looking at game film, trying to find holes in the other teams game plans and to determine their tendencies. All they did was include the defensive coordinators hand calls. If they are really worried about the DC should squat down and give the signals right in front of his balls, like catchers do.

The NFL has decreed that stealing a team's defensive signals is ok so long as technology isn't used to do it.

errr....unless you're using audiotape. Apparently the Dolphins tape recorded Brady's voice when calling plays, and that was ok.

:shrug: It's all pretty absurd...

Amnorix
09-11-2007, 02:49 PM
I actually like Brady-he's the best in the NFL, IMO. I just don't take everything he says as the gospel.

Well, let's be specific. You like Brady and hate Belichick. That's ok.

Amnorix
09-11-2007, 02:51 PM
If true, the head coach should be suspended for the season.

Yes, clearly...

:rolleyes:

cadmonkey
09-11-2007, 03:05 PM
I would love of this was all just a huge ploy by BB to take the heat off the actual game this weekend. There is actually nothing on the camera but embarrassing pictures of Mangina or just BB flipping the camera off, or pictures of cheerleaders.

el borracho
09-11-2007, 03:21 PM
Yes, clearly...

:rolleyes:
Obviously you disagree; why? IMO, If the team was cheating the head coach should be responsible. Who do you think should be responsible?

Mecca
09-11-2007, 03:22 PM
I wish our dipshit coach was as smart and cared as much to try every thing he can like Belichick does.

Planetman
09-11-2007, 03:41 PM
I wish our dipshit coach was as smart and cared as much to try every thing he can like Belichick does.
Is this how desperate you've become? Resorting to condoning cheating by our team? :shake:

orange
09-11-2007, 03:51 PM
Oh, and P.S., if Brady is a genius, then:

1. it's partly DUE to Belichick, since Belichick helped to coach him up to greatness (not that he might not have been great anyway, but...)

2. name me a genius/great head coach who DID NOT have one or more great QBs leading thier teams to multiple Super Bowls. Don't bother, I'll do it for you -- Joe Gibbs. That's it.

Everyone else had their QB too:

Lombardi --> Starr
Shula --> Unitas/Griese/Marino
JJ --> Aikman
Landry --> Staubach
Noll --> Bradshaw
Walsh --> Montana

Parcells --> Simms/Hostetler *OOOPS*

Amnorix
09-11-2007, 03:52 PM
Obviously you disagree; why? IMO, If the team was cheating the head coach should be responsible. Who do you think should be responsible?

When was the last time any head coach in any sport was suspended for a full season?

Mecca
09-11-2007, 03:54 PM
When was the last time any head coach in any sport was suspended for a full season?

People are trying to screw with your teams run to perfection.

Amnorix
09-11-2007, 03:57 PM
Parcells --> Simms/Hostetler *OOOPS*


Ok, though I'll note that Simms played in about 14 of thew 16 regular season games, setting up the team for it's post-season position as a #1 seed.

But I'll grant you that they had a differnet QB in the SB, so sure, whatever.

That makes 6 or whatever off the top of my head (there's likely more) on my side, and 2 for your side, and 1 of yours has a bit of an asterisk next to it.

orange
09-11-2007, 04:00 PM
... and 1 of yours has a bit of an asterisk next to it.

Only if you consider Phil Simms a great quarterback. Do you?

Amnorix
09-11-2007, 04:06 PM
Only if you consider Phil Simms a great quarterback. Do you?

Not HOF. But very, very consistent and dependable.

Those Giant teams were the first example, by and large, of a team that wasn't great on both sides of the ball. The multiple championship teams of the 70s and earlier generally had several HOFers on both sides of the ball.

Then you get into the 80s, and you start to see teams that are more offense oriented or defense oriented. The Giants were the only multiple winner that was more defense oriented. It and the Redskins also survived having different QBs because they were predicated on power running and ball control.

Then you get into the 90s, and the list to one side of the ball or the other becomes even more pronounced, as teams try to win by dominating on one side, and being "good enough" on the other. The 2000 Ravens are the most absurd example of this.

Bill Parcells
09-11-2007, 04:10 PM
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/7264/cheatiesnj9.jpg

Bill Parcells
09-11-2007, 04:19 PM
BOSTON -- New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick has been summoned to New York by the NFL Commissioner, SportsCenter 5 reported Tuesday.SportsCenter 5 reporter Mike Dowling said Belichick has been called for a meeting Friday with Commissioner Roger Goodell to answer allegations that a Patriots employee was videotaping New York Jets' coaches signals during the season opener on Sunday.That's against National Football League rules.



http://www.thebostonchannel.com/sports/14088132/detail.html

Amnorix
09-11-2007, 04:43 PM
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/7264/cheatiesnj9.jpg
ROFL Rep. That's an all-time speed record right there.

It's the sweet sound of jealousy, htough, and I love it. I remember when the Patriots were totally irrelevant, adn if they'd been caught cheating, the only question would've been "then why do they still suck so bad."

Mr. Kotter
09-11-2007, 06:10 PM
Wow. I gotta say, I'm shocked. I've never "liked" the Pats....but they seemed to be some of the "good guys," not an organization that would stoop to Fader/Donk style tactics. :shake:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3014677

Tuesday, September 11, 2007
Sources: Goodell determines Pats broke rules by taping Jets' signals

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Chris Mortensen
ESPN.com

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has determined that the New England Patriots violated league rules Sunday when they videotaped defensive signals by the New York Jets' coaches, according to league sources.


NFL security officials confiscated a camera and videotape from Patriots video assistant Matt Estrella on the New England sidelines when it was suspected he was recording the Jets' defensive signals. Sources say the visual evidence confirmed the suspicion.


Goodell is considering severe sanctions, including the possibility of docking the Patriots "multiple draft picks" because it is the competitive violation in the wake of a stern warning to all teams since he became commissioner, the sources said. The Patriots have been suspected in previous incidents.


The Patriots will be allowed an opportunity to present their case by Friday, sources said, most likely via the telephone.


NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said on Tuesday that no official decision has been made and that the club has not been notified.


The league also was reviewing a possible violation into the number of radio frequencies the Patriots were using during Sunday's game, sources said. The team did not have a satisfactory explanation when asked about possible irregularities in its communication setup during the game.


Goodell is expected to have a decision no later than Friday but that is not set in stone.

Mr. Laz
09-11-2007, 06:27 PM
if history holds the Pats should lose at least a 3rd round draft pick.

goodell is one tough SOB ... and i'm not talking about only in his own mind like Carl peterson.

tk13
09-11-2007, 06:29 PM
I think they should lose multiple draft picks, not just one.

Mecca
09-11-2007, 06:29 PM
Watch as they are penalized a 7th rounder...

Mr. Kotter
09-11-2007, 06:33 PM
I think they should lose multiple draft picks, not just one.

Yup. Three or four, over a couple of years....wouldn't be too tough, IMO. :shake:

Watch as they are penalized a 7th rounder...

That better not be all; at least one first day pick...plus a couple of others.

Mecca
09-11-2007, 06:34 PM
LOL, that isn't going to happen, it's just not you're more likely to see a big fine. The Broncos lost 1 pick for ****ing with the cap. The Pats aren't going to lose multiple picks for this.

Mr. Kotter
09-11-2007, 06:35 PM
LOL, that isn't going to happen, it's just not you're more likely to see a big fine. The Broncos lost 1 pick for ****ing with the cap. The Pats aren't going to lose multiple picks for this.

One word:

Goodell

WilliamTheIrish
09-11-2007, 06:37 PM
I don't think any video camera helped Vinatieri drill a 48 yard bomb to win a SB.

If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying. I'd take that over "Winningest team of 90's" any damn day

Mecca
09-11-2007, 06:37 PM
If it's multiple picks they'll be like 6th rounders...they aren't going to take a 1st round pick.

Big fine though possibly 2 picks which will be 2nd day picks in my view.

Hydrae
09-11-2007, 06:48 PM
I understand the idea of taking away picks but it really seems to me like they should lose some wins. The cheating didn't get them more draft picks but it did give them wins. Make the punishment fit the crime, the Pats forfeit game 1 to the Jets. Then make them play the next 3 games without headsets.

DaFace
09-11-2007, 07:04 PM
I know that rules are rules, but this all seems a bit silly to me. As others have mentioned, teams could easily plant one person in the crowds of 70,000+ to do this fairly inconspicuously. The only surprising thing is that they were stupid enough to have someone standing on the sideline doing it.

Eh well. Dole out the punishment. But I don't really think this is bad enough to warrant any "asterisks."

BucEyedPea
09-11-2007, 07:12 PM
I think we should hold off on what the penalty will be until the Pats respond to the charges first.

chagrin
09-11-2007, 08:35 PM
I don't think any video camera helped Vinatieri drill a 48 yard bomb to win a SB.



Well put, I agree

Bill Parcells
09-11-2007, 08:41 PM
I think we should hold off on what the penalty will be until the Pats respond to the charges first.
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/Bob%20the%20Jets%20Fan/suckmag.jpg

el borracho
09-11-2007, 11:01 PM
When was the last time any head coach in any sport was suspended for a full season?
I don't know of any- then again, I can't recall any team caught cheating in a similar manner. Now, please answer my questions: Who do you think should be held responsible for cheating in this manner? And what punishment do you think is appropriate?

el borracho
09-11-2007, 11:02 PM
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/7264/cheatiesnj9.jpg
That's awesome! ROFL

crazycoffey
09-11-2007, 11:58 PM
I don't think any video camera helped Vinatieri drill a 48 yard bomb to win a SB.

If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying. I'd take that over "Winningest team of 90's" any damn day

MMMM, well what about the offensive play calling to get into position to kick that game winner, or even the O plays that kept the game close?

The whole "if you ain't cheating you ain't trying" thing worked for me when I was in the Army and training for life or death defense of our country. I don't believe it counts the same in a game of football. I wouldn't want to win a game of any sort knowing I cheated to get it done.

Mr. Kotter
09-12-2007, 12:20 AM
I don't think any video camera helped Vinatieri drill a 48 yard bomb to win a SB.

If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying. I'd take that over "Winningest team of 90's" any damn day

Just a thought, old-and-wise W.T.I. : :hmmm:

WHAT if New England even BEING in a position to win the game, hinged on DEFENSIVE signals STOLEN.....which allowed them to SCORE against a Defense they were ANTICIPATING..... :hmmm:

I mean, would Brady have been HALF the QB he's been in post-season....if he hadn't KNOWN what the opposing team's "D" was gonna do???

It's worth a thought, IMHO. :hmmm: :hmmm: :hmmm:

I'd bet if Green had KNOWN the what the "D's" facing him were doing on a given down....we'd have, at least, a recent SuperBowl appearance to lament....

Stewie
09-12-2007, 07:16 AM
My dad told me when I was starting to play golf that it was better to shoot a high score than to cheat. A high score will be forgotten, but being known as a cheater will follow you for life.

It seems New England might become the Mark McGuire of the NFL.

Amnorix
09-12-2007, 07:37 AM
I don't know of any- then again, I can't recall any team caught cheating in a similar manner. Now, please answer my questions: Who do you think should be held responsible for cheating in this manner? And what punishment do you think is appropriate?

The team. If the cheating affected a specific game, then I wouldn't think forfeiture to be an unreasonable penalty. As far as I understand, however, that's not the case.

Draft pick(s) and some kind of fine makes the most sense to me.

Amnorix
09-12-2007, 07:40 AM
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/Bob%20the%20Jets%20Fan/suckmag.jpg

Bitter much?

Chiefnj2
09-12-2007, 07:49 AM
Taking a second day draft pick isn't going to send a strong message.

Give the W to the Jets and allow a defensive player to have a helmet that receives the signals like the QB. It'll help to avoid this problem in the future.

BucEyedPea
09-12-2007, 07:51 AM
Jet's fans need to get off their high horse though. Especially when their team scoops up recently released Patriots to use for a brain drain and their coach trying to steal the playbook when leaving. Afterall, it was a Jet's employee who spotted the Pat's camerman. This makes no sense for the Pats to be so brazen on how they filmed this. The two teams are not on best of terms.

BucEyedPea
09-12-2007, 07:54 AM
Taking a second day draft pick isn't going to send a strong message.

Give the W to the Jets and allow a defensive player to have a helmet that receives the signals like the QB. It'll help to avoid this problem in the future.
They still have to make the plays.
Don't think for a moment the Jet's aren't playing a similar game.

pikesome
09-12-2007, 09:20 AM
Jet's fans need to get off their high horse though. Especially when their team scoops up recently released Patriots to use for a brain drain and their coach trying to steal the playbook when leaving.

The problem is one of these things is against league rules and one isn't. One of these things have gotten the Pats warned before.

BucEyedPea
09-12-2007, 09:21 AM
That's true. Believe me I don't like it. But I want the whole story before I give out a punishment. It's called being fair.

StcChief
09-12-2007, 09:25 AM
Winner's never Cheat and Cheaters never Win.

oh wait....

jidar
09-12-2007, 09:32 AM
Jet's fans need to get off their high horse though. Especially when their team scoops up recently released Patriots to use for a brain drain and their coach trying to steal the playbook when leaving. Afterall, it was a Jet's employee who spotted the Pat's camerman. This makes no sense for the Pats to be so brazen on how they filmed this. The two teams are not on best of terms.


Every team picks up division rivals cast offs, the Chiefs/Raiders/Broncos have traded cuts countless times.

BucEyedPea
09-12-2007, 09:37 AM
Yes. I know. See the article I posted in the other thread on this topic.

Extra Point
09-12-2007, 09:40 AM
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/7264/cheatiesnj9.jpg
Wacky Packages, indeed.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jTUruCv4Qi4"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jTUruCv4Qi4" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

BigChiefFan
09-12-2007, 02:35 PM
Looks like you owe me an apology, amnorix...

The league also was reviewing a possible violation into the number of radio frequencies the Patriots were using during Sunday's game, sources said. The team did not have a satisfactory explanation when asked about possible irregularities in its communication setup during the game.

fan4ever
09-12-2007, 02:58 PM
My dad told me when I was starting to play golf that it was better to shoot a high score than to cheat. A high score will be forgotten, but being known as a cheater will follow you for life.

It seems New England might become the Mark McGuire of the NFL.

Absolutely right. My brother is a chronic golf cheater and everyone laughs when he tells us his score.

The belief that "the ends justifying the means" has seem to become what this country/world has diminished to, and decent, trustworthy people are becoming the real endangered species. What is especially sad is that there are so many of those who can't see the fault in that attitude.

BigChiefFan
09-12-2007, 03:09 PM
If found guilty BB should be suspended from the league for a year maybe forever and they should also have to forfeit several draft picks. This is just as bad as steroids because it's still cheating.

pikesome
09-12-2007, 03:11 PM
If found guilty BB should be suspended from the league for a year maybe forever and they should also have to forfeit several draft picks. This is just as bad as steroids because it's still cheating.
http://www.blurst.com/uploaded_images/Batman-Robin-60s-743849.jpg

Holy overreacting Batman!

BigChiefFan
09-12-2007, 03:24 PM
http://www.blurst.com/uploaded_images/Batman-Robin-60s-743849.jpg

Holy overreacting Batman!Look what baseball did to Pete Rose for gambling?

Overreacting? Since when was cheating ever condoned and justified? This country has become delusional if they think this isn't a huge story. A coach with BB's track record has been exposed as a FRAUD, who has had to cheat to win games. Very honorable in your book, huh? The league should seriously consider a lifetime ban on this weak putz. There's no room for cheating.

KC Tattoo
09-12-2007, 03:26 PM
*Bill Belichick

Patriots won 3* Super Bowls with Bill Belichick*.

The Patriots beat* the Chargers last year in playoffs.

The Patriots are a Dynasty* team.

Extra Point
09-12-2007, 03:30 PM
BULLETIN: There's lots of room for cheating.

April 15: National Uniform Tax Solidarity Day.

pikesome
09-12-2007, 03:31 PM
Look what baseball did to Pete Rose for gambling?

Overreacting? Since when was cheating ever condoned and justified? This country has become delusional if they think this isn't a huge story. A coach with BB's track record has been exposed as a FRAUD, who has had to cheat to win games. Very honorable in your book, huh? The league should seriously consider a lifetime ban on this weak putz. There's no room for cheating.

Suspend him for a year? Lifetime? Ain't no way in hell. Besides the fact it doesn't jive with the suspensions for player conduct (Vick is a convicted felon and he doesn't have a lifetime ban, Tank Johnson went to jail and didn't get a whole season) the penalties for this are fairly well set, draft picks and/or fines. It does cast a dark cloud over his rings that people will be talking about even after he dies but there isn't anyway the league could or would go so far.

BigChiefFan
09-12-2007, 03:36 PM
Suspend him for a year? Lifetime? Ain't no way in hell. Besides the fact it doesn't jive with the suspensions for player conduct (Vick is a convicted felon and he doesn't have a lifetime ban, Tank Johnson went to jail and didn't get a whole season) the penalties for this are fairly well set, draft picks and/or fines. It does cast a dark cloud over his rings that people will be talking about even after he dies but there isn't anyway the league could or would go so far.

This doesn't effect a select few-this affects the ENTIRE league. Every team the Pats have played in the past few years comes into question. That isn't something you sweep under the rug and fine a team for, not if you want to send a message. This ****er could have been cheating for literally YEARS now. 53 men on each team multiplied by every team they played in that span.

Vick effected Vick and his team.

BB has effected the entire league. See the difference?

pikesome
09-12-2007, 03:37 PM
*Bill Belichick

Patriots won 3* Super Bowls with Bill Belichick*.

The Patriots beat* the Chargers last year in playoffs.

The Patriots are a Dynasty* team.

This is exactly it. Sorry Patriot fans but your team's SB rings will forever have a cloud over them. Maybe there was no cheating involved but once you open Pandora's Box there isn't any putting it back. All those superbly game-planned games? Suspect. Building a team with cast-offs and great personnel decisions? Suspect. I'm not saying that all, or even any, they've accomplished wasn't done fairly but now there will always be questions. Ask Barry Bonds how hard that is to shake.

pikesome
09-12-2007, 03:39 PM
This doesn't effect a select few-this affects the ENTIRE league. Every team the Pats have played in the past few years comes into question. That isn't something you sweep under the rug and fine a team for, not if you want to send a message. This ****er could have been cheating for literally YEARS now. 53 men on each team multiplied by every team they played in that span.

Vick effected Vick and his team.

BB has effected the entire league. See the difference?

Yes, and you're welcome to your opinion of what they ought to do but what I'm telling you is what they will do. Besides there isn't enough evidence to punish them for more than this game. Yep they probably did more but you can't expect the league to hand down punishments for crimes they can't prove.

Mecca
09-12-2007, 03:41 PM
This is getting to ridiculous levels now.......I guess whatever you have to tell yourself about how the Pats won Bowls and are the class of the league.

pikesome
09-12-2007, 03:47 PM
This is getting to ridiculous levels now.......I guess whatever you have to tell yourself about how the Pats won Bowls and are the class of the league.

I don't think they cheated (though they really did push the limits of pass interference) but this is how cheating works. If you did it once, how many other times? It's not hard to argue that all of their success was ill-gotten even if there's no proof. It won't be long before the fans of teams the Pats stomped to convince themselves that's what happened. And we'll never know for sure they didn't.

BigChiefFan
09-12-2007, 03:47 PM
Yes, and you're welcome to your opinion of what they ought to do but what I'm telling you is what they will do. Besides there isn't enough evidence to punish them for more than this game. Yep they probably did more but you can't expect the league to hand down punishments for crimes they can't prove.You don't KNOW what they will or won't do. You can base it on previous judgements againts teams found guilty of violations, but let's not pretend you know anymore about what the judgement will be than any of the rest here.

BTW, it's sounds like they have some evidence to support the claim or they wouldn't have been found GUILTY, now would they?

Mecca
09-12-2007, 03:49 PM
I don't think they cheated (though they really did push the limits of pass interference) but this is how cheating works. If you did it once, how many other times? It's not hard to argue that all of their success was ill-gotten even if there's no proof. It won't be long before the fans of teams the Pats stomped to convince themselves that's what happened. And we'll never know for sure they didn't.

They won Bowls that's all that matters....video tape didn't make Tom Brady lead a 2 minute drive and Vinatieri hammer a 48 yard FG.

Amnorix
09-12-2007, 03:49 PM
ROFL at some of these posts.

pikesome
09-12-2007, 03:53 PM
You don't KNOW what they will or won't do. You can base it on previous judgements againts teams found guilty of violations, but let's not pretend you know anymore about what the judgement will be than any of the rest here.

BTW, it's sounds like they have some evidence to support the claim or they wouldn't have been found GUILTY, now would they?

On this I'm obviously much more knowledgeable than you. Find me something to indicate that even a season ban might happen. Yes, I don't know but at least I'm living in the real world here. The worst, and maybe far more damaging anyway, that will happen is the constant suspicions that BB isn't really that great of a coach, only a cheater.

They have evidence this time but not of any others. Suspicions, yes. Proof, no.

Brock
09-12-2007, 03:55 PM
Season ban, LOL. That's stupid beyond belief.

BigChiefFan
09-12-2007, 03:59 PM
On this I'm obviously much more knowledgeable than you. Find me something to indicate that even a season ban might happen. Yes, I don't know but at least I'm living in the real world here. The worst, and maybe far more damaging anyway, that will happen is the constant suspicions that BB isn't really that great of a coach, only a cheater.

They have evidence this time but not of any others. Suspicions, yes. Proof, no.
Since this is Goodells first year there isn't much to base it on now is there? Thanks for pretending you know more than you do. I'm sure you work for the league office and they ran this by you before releasing the punishment, right? :rolleyes:

Chiefnj2
09-12-2007, 04:01 PM
The NFL is the teflon sport. Scandal doesn't stick to it.

Players do steroids in the MLB and it's a big deal. In the NFL, you do your suspension and you are still a hero - See "roidman" Merriman.

IMO, give the victory to the Jets. Loss of draft picks (unless a top 15 pick) isn't that great of a loss with F/A.

Mecca
09-12-2007, 04:01 PM
ROFL at some of these posts.

I don't like your team and you basically know that I'm sure but I'm not gonna say something really stupid just for that reason like some of these people are.

BigChiefFan
09-12-2007, 04:02 PM
Season ban, LOL. That's stupid beyond belief.

Yea they should just fine them-that will stop this from ever happening again, right? :rolleyes: A little slap on the wrist is all they need to stop cheating, Good, BB, good boy. Especially since this isn't the first accusation against BB, right?

Mecca
09-12-2007, 04:03 PM
They're gonna get a slap on the wrist because all the teams are doing it, they're just going to get punished for getting caught.

That's why I think this overzealous cry for punishment is a retarded jump to try to knock down the dynasty franchise in the league.

BigChiefFan
09-12-2007, 04:08 PM
They're gonna get a slap on the wrist because all the teams are doing it, they're just going to get punished for getting caught.

That's why I think this overzealous cry for punishment is a retarded jump to try to knock down the dynasty franchise in the league.

No it's about standing up for what's right and what's wrong. Cheating is wrong isn't it? You think some are bashing BB because it makes them feel better about our team being shitty? Why in the **** would I feel any better, my team still sucks ass regardless of the outcome. That is one of the lamest, bullshit excuses I've ever seen.

Mecca
09-12-2007, 04:10 PM
Because sports are about the moral high ground....I don't think some people are aware of how much shady shit goes on in sports...

This isn't a moral place where people do good things....

BigChiefFan
09-12-2007, 04:16 PM
Because sports are about the moral high ground....I don't think some people are aware of how much shady shit goes on in sports...

This isn't a moral place where people do good things....
It still doesn't make it right. Wrong is wrong, no matter how you spin it.


Main Entry: 1cheat
Pronunciation: 'chet
transitive senses
1 : to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud
2 : to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice
3 : to elude or thwart by or as if by outwitting <cheat death>
intransitive senses
1 a : to practice fraud or trickery b : to violate rules dishonestly (as at cards or on an examination)

Brock
09-12-2007, 04:39 PM
Yea they should just fine them-that will stop this from ever happening again, right? :rolleyes: A little slap on the wrist is all they need to stop cheating, Good, BB, good boy. Especially since this isn't the first accusation against BB, right?

You can whine and cry about it all you like. A suspension of anything longer than a week isn't going to happen. They'll likely lose a draft pick or two. That's it, deal with it.

BigChiefFan
09-12-2007, 04:40 PM
You can whine and cry about it all you like. A suspension of anything longer than a week isn't going to happen. They'll likely lose a draft pick or two. That's it, deal with it.
Still doesn't make it right, which is all I've been trying to convey.

NFL_Fan
09-12-2007, 05:17 PM
If they are guilty of cheating then maybe a page out of the old NCAA playbook might be appropriate ......ban them from the postseason. ...LOL. Randy Moss would have a total mental meltdown!

Anyong Bluth
09-12-2007, 05:53 PM
Cheating is cheating, and most teams are probably cheating. I have no sympathy for the NFL throwing the book at them, simply for the fact that you don't penalize based upon the assumption that everyone else is doing it so its not a big deal. The rules are the rules, and if you're too stupid to not get caught then the penalty should be harsh. You can look at it 2 ways, the NFL is maintaining the stance that cheating will not be openly condoned, and if you're too stupid to not get caught then you get what you deserve.

I like Brady and most of the team's players. Do I think BB is a huge dick and tired of his stupid shit like his injury reports, yes. His little squabble w/ Mangini I think is absurdly childish, so yeah I'm not going to feel too sorry for the guy. He and Shanny are top 5 coaches in the league and they both do shit that's shady completely. If you're a fan of the team they're great and you give them a pass, I get that. So at the end of the day, I get that pretty much all teams cheat, so I just think they should pay. Call it a stupidity penalty.

Der Flöprer
09-12-2007, 05:56 PM
If they are guilty of cheating then maybe a page out of the old NCAA playbook might be appropriate ......ban them from the postseason. ...LOL. Randy Moss would have a total mental meltdown!



A 3 year death sentence would flush that franchise right down the shitter and could potentially ruin the parity of the entire league. I don't think I like that scenario. Suspending their head coach for 4 weeks should suffice.

penchief
09-12-2007, 07:00 PM
There's a few things they could do if they really wanted to make it hurt.

1. Make them play their next four divisional home games on the road.

2. Suspend the head coach for a eight games.

3. Make that draft penalty a first round choice.

4. Not only should they forfeit the game but all of the individual statistics should be voided.