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Count Zarth
09-12-2007, 10:41 PM
http://chiefs.scout.com/2/679048.html

When I heard about the outrageous cheating committed by the Patriots this past Sunday, my initial reaction was to call for the league to hit New England where it hurts most: the NFL draft

Draft picks are the lifeblood of any successful NFL franchise. You can’t build a competitive team through free agency (as the Washington Redskins continue to prove). The Patriots, Indianapolis Colts and Philadelphia Eagles draft well each year and continue to win.

Robbing the Patriots of their entire allotment of picks in next April’s draft would have sent a harsh message – cheating will not be tolerated. But it’s too harsh. It hurts the entire team – the coaches, players and front office personnel – and the entire team wasn’t responsible for what happened on New York’s sideline on Sunday. One man was.

Bill Belichick.

Belichick should be the one to pay the ultimate price for this transgression. He’s clearly the ringleader. It’s absurd to speculate that any assistant coach conspired with his co-workers to pull this off. New England’s head coach obviously signed off on the deal to steal New York’s signals, and as the man in charge, he should be the one to pay.

The NFL should suspend Belichick for the remainder of the 2007 season, without pay. He should be barred from participating with the team in any football-related matter, and all communication concerning coaching matters should be cut off.

This heavily penalizes Belichick while taking an appropriate toll on his team. Who knows what advantages they gained against the Jets with Randy Moss running through New York’s pilfered coverages. Without their head coach, the Patriots will be robbed of their leader and key strategist for a suitable time.

It’s unfair to take away draft picks. It robs New England’s players of the tools to get the job done on the field next year, and in future years. You might say taking away only a couple of picks would be punishment enough, but it’s not, especially for a team that’s as well-built in the present and drafts as well as the Patriots do.

This isn’t just about the Patriots, either. There are probably similar cases of undiscovered cheating going on around the league every weekend. We’d be naive fools to think otherwise.

Cutting off New England’s head (Belichick) will make everyone stand up and take notice.

It was important for NFL commissioner Roger Goodell to do the right thing with Michael Vick, regardless of his status as a big-name quarterback. He sent a clear message to every NFL player when he suspended Vick indefinitely – behavior that reflects badly on the league will not be tolerated.

If Goodell doesn’t take the same stance with Belichick, he risks alienating hundreds of players league wide. Let Belichick off scott free, and it looks like players are accountable, but coaches aren’t.

Here’s the really disgusting part of this – Belichick isn’t apologetic in the least. In an official statement released on New England’s website, he referred to the blatant stealing of New York’s defensive signals as “a videotaping procedure” and “my interpretation of the rules.” That’s like Pacman Jones describing his illicit nightclub-related activities as “relaxation procedures” and “my interpretation of what I can get away with.”

For Goodell’s sake, I hope the penalty that comes down from the league offices doesn’t scream “double standard.” It’d be a shame, especially after the league took appropriate action with former Vikings head coach Mike Tice during his ticket-scalping scandal. Just because Belichick has won a few Super Bowls is no reason to treat him differently.

In fact, Belichick’s success only gives the league more reason to step in. Patriots owner Robert Kraft isn’t going to do anything, so someone who doesn’t have an emotional and financial investment in Belichick must.

I think it’s time for a “punishment procedure.”

ferrarispider95
09-12-2007, 10:42 PM
Don't think that is going to happen

Direckshun
09-12-2007, 10:44 PM
I don't either -- but it would if it were Herm. lol

Just the way the league rolls.

Deberg_1990
09-12-2007, 10:46 PM
Ehh...i dont think its all that big a deal. Every team in the league tries to get a competive edge. The Pats just got caught.

I seriously doubt this helped the Pats win that game.

SPchief
09-12-2007, 10:46 PM
Decent article, but it won't happen. Goodell will punish the team and not the coach. Goodell won't be able to prove that Bellicheck was the mastermind.

Bob Dole
09-12-2007, 10:48 PM
They've probably got another 20 coaches on-staff. Suspending Belichick is going to have minimal impact. And the impact it would have is only short-term.

Make the bastard wear a necktie on the sideline for the remainder of the season, and take away 2 of their 5 first day draft picks.

Phobia
09-12-2007, 10:48 PM
I think you should have suggested they chop Bill's head off. I mean as long as you're making unrealistic and ridiculous suggestions.

Mile High Mania
09-12-2007, 10:52 PM
Hmmm... were you listening to ESPN Radio this afternoon between 1 and 3pm? This reads very (and I mean very) simliar to their discussion. Your use of "cut off the head" and several other areas of the article read like a transcript from their commentary.

Count Zarth
09-12-2007, 10:52 PM
Hmmm... were you listening to ESPN Radio this afternoon between 1 and 3pm? This reads very (and I mean very) simliar to their discussion "cut off the head" and lots of the article read like a transcript from their commentary.

Of course. I rip off everything I write.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-12-2007, 11:01 PM
I'm not averse to the idea, but I still think that a package of draft pick losses, and a loss of their TV revenue would dissuade anyone from ever f*cking with that shit again.

But to suggest that players weren't complicit in this act is bullshit. They knew it was going on. If they lose draft picks and it hurts their team, well then f*ck 'em. They could have blown the whistle.

OctoberFart
09-12-2007, 11:07 PM
Of course. I rip off everything I write.
Quoted for the truth.

splatbass
09-13-2007, 01:55 AM
I would rather they not suspend him before they play the Chargers on Sunday. No point helping an AFCW team out.

Fruit Ninja
09-13-2007, 03:02 AM
Take away a first day draft and suspend him a few games works. A whole year is just stupid. +

redsurfer11
09-13-2007, 04:59 AM
Remove Belichick for 6 games.
Lose picks 2 and 3
Lose 16th of their salery cap next year.
Forfeit game to Jets.
6 million $ fine.
That should be enough to keep them from doing this again.

Skip Towne
09-13-2007, 05:41 AM
Of course. I rip off everything I write.
Yep.

HonestChieffan
09-13-2007, 06:11 AM
this too shall pass....probably a minor take away of a draft pick is all in my estimation.

Cochise
09-13-2007, 06:12 AM
Hmmm... were you listening to ESPN Radio this afternoon between 1 and 3pm? This reads very (and I mean very) simliar to their discussion. Your use of "cut off the head" and several other areas of the article read like a transcript from their commentary.

It seems like I remember once last year that I heard Bob Gretz wonder aloud on the postgame if Jay Cutler was going to turn out to be the 'wunderkind" Denver thought and he used the same term... don't know if it was on here or in a WPI article but it was curious timing, later the same day perhaps.

DaKCMan AP
09-13-2007, 06:14 AM
Ehh...i dont think its all that big a deal. Every team in the league tries to get a competive edge. The Pats just got caught.

I seriously doubt this helped the Pats win that game.

Forget the whole cheating aspect and any effect it might have. Remove all of it. It's still a big deal because they were specifically warned and told by the NFL not to do this and they blatantly disregarded the rules and did it anyway. That should warrant punishment in itself. Throw the cheating back in and the punishment increases.

cadmonkey
09-13-2007, 06:36 AM
Who knows what advantages they gained against the Jets with Randy Moss running through New York’s pilfered coverages.

right, because Randy needed to know the defensive play in order to get through a triple team, 50 yards down field. This whole thing, maybe, helped them on two or three plays and would be a bigger issue if the game was even remotely close. New England blew the Jets out of the water that game, and chances are didn't need to steal signals.

unfortunatly they did steal signals and got bagged. this will blow over and we'll move on.

Bill Parcells
09-13-2007, 07:31 AM
right, because Randy needed to know the defensive play in order to get through a triple team, 50 yards down field. This whole thing, maybe, helped them on two or three plays and would be a bigger issue if the game was even remotely close. New England blew the Jets out of the water that game, and chances are didn't need to steal signals.

unfortunatly they did steal signals and got bagged. this will blow over and we'll move on.
The game was relatively close until halftime.The dude was caught at halftime, or late in the 2nd quarter.

When mumbles staff was able to digest the info transmitted to them during the 1st half. after that it was some great 2nd half adjustments! it seemed like they knew exactly what was coming

Yes, the Jets got there asses kicked. but to act like you are above the league or the NFL is pathetic.

Everybody tries to steal signals, thats why coaches cover there mouths when calling plays. but video taping and stealing radio signals and transmitting them to your players?

BucEyedPea
09-13-2007, 07:36 AM
I wouldn't put it past Mangini to have ever done the same thing. Afterall he learned from the master himself. I say no major edge was gained. Both sides know what's going on between each other's team and calls can be changed and most likely were due to this environment.

Not to mention Mangini can't build his own team's talent without riding the Patriot's coatails...'er Pat's ex-staff coaches and players. This may be legal but it speaks about Mangini's ability as a head coach to coach up his own talent and has no doubt done his fair share of acting out his and BB's childish feud.

Basileus777
09-13-2007, 07:37 AM
The game was relatively close until halftime.The dude was caught at halftime, or late in the 2nd quarter.

When mumbles staff was able to digest the info transmitted to them during the 1st half. after that it was some great 2nd half adjustments! it seemed like they knew exactly what was coming

Yes, the Jets got there asses kicked. but to act like you are above the league or the NFL is pathetic.

Everybody tries to steal signals, thats why coaches cover there mouths when calling plays. but video taping and stealing radio signals and transmitting them to your players?

He was actually caught during the first quarter, I don't think its very likely that this affected Sunday's game.

Bill Parcells
09-13-2007, 07:39 AM
I wouldn't put it past Mangini to have ever done the same thing. Afterall he learned from the master himself. I say no major edge was gained.

Not to mention Mangini can't build his own team's talent without riding the Patriot's coatails...'er Pat's ex-staff coaches and players. This may be legal but it speaks about Mangini's ability as a head coach to coach up his own talent and has no doubt done his fair share of acting out his and BB's childish feud.
Enough with your incessant whining about Mangini!

You're a ****ing bandwagon Pats fan, and a Bucs fan.

How you can root for 2 teams is beyond me.

This is about Belichick, not Mangini. did Mangini hide in Green Bay last year and catch the Patriots cheating then too?

BucEyedPea
09-13-2007, 07:42 AM
Mangini is cut from the same cloth as Mangini bill.
You can personally attack me all you want but Mangini is just as sleazy as BB. That's not cutting BB any slack; nor Mangini. Mangini learned from BB. He just hasn't been caught.

Bill Parcells
09-13-2007, 07:44 AM
Mangini is cut from the same cloth as Mangini bill.
You can personally attack me all you want but Mangini is just as sleazy as BB. That's not cutting BB any slack; not Mangini.
Mangini learned from BB.


You haven't (from what I've read) said anything negative about Belichick over this. you just kept blaming Mangini.

Maybe it's Mangini's fault the Hindenburg caught on fire almost 100 years ago. it's a possibility. :hmmm:

BucEyedPea
09-13-2007, 07:49 AM
I have too. It was my first post. I've only said I'll await the full investigation including for what the penalty would be.

That being said Mangini is not better imo.

Bill Parcells
09-13-2007, 07:57 AM
I have too. It was my first post. I've only said I'll await the full investigation including for what the penalty would be.
That's fair
That being said Mangini is not better imo.
He's such a terrible guy that Mangini!

Mile High Mania
09-13-2007, 08:02 AM
I just think it's funny that WPI posted what amounts to be a forums post as an article...

Who knows what advantage was gained here. The issue is that there is a SPECIFIC RULE outlined about NOT doing this very thing. Every coach has this manual... every team knows it is wrong.

However, that didn't stop the Patriots from doing it anyway. They were caught and warned in 2006 and they were caught again in 2007.

Were these the 2 lone isolated incidents? Who knows, but I doubt it.

Repeat offenders... whether the benefit gained was minimal or not is not a factor here. They broke the rules and were caught twice.

If they can fine Wade Wilson (Dallas QB coach) $100k and suspend him for 5 games for receiving steroids (he claims they were for his diabetic issues)... then the punishment for BB has to start there in my book.

Cheating is cheating, whether it's steroids or using the miracles of technology to steal information.

I'm actually waiting for the day when someone claims that another team tried to hack into their team's computer network.

Brock
09-13-2007, 08:15 AM
Another blogger chimes in.

DaKCMan AP
09-13-2007, 08:21 AM
If they can fine Wade Wilson (Dallas QB coach) $100k and suspend him for 5 games for receiving steroids (he claims they were for his diabetic issues)... then the punishment for BB has to start there in my book.


The exact point that Le Batard makes in his column today. IMO, this is much worse since Wade Wilson taking HGH has no effect on the credibility or outcome of the game.

Add that to the fact that they were specifically told not to do this and they unapologetically and blatantly disregarded it deserves extreme punishment.

BucEyedPea
09-13-2007, 08:21 AM
He's such a terrible guy that Mangini!
That's not the point. The point is he was with the Pats for years. If he was so virtuous he'da reported it earlier. He's not doing it out of any virtue but to get another leg up over the Pats. Part of the continuing saga between him and BB. If this film was confiscated in the first quarter, then there was no film to use for the Pat's to unfairly win the game Sunday. Pats may have broken the rules but they did not get to cheat with it either as the film was confiscated before it could be used. Simple logic.

Bill Parcells
09-13-2007, 08:28 AM
That's not the point. The point is he was with the Pats for years. If he was so virtuous he'da reported it earlier. He's not doing it out of any virtue but to get another leg up over the Pats. Part of the continuing saga between him and BB. If this film was confiscated in the first quarter, then there was no film to use for the Pat's to unfairly win the game Sunday. Pats may have broken the rules but they did not get to cheat with it either as the film was confiscated before it could be used. Simple logic.
Spin Spin Spin

You don't know that it wasn't used during the game, nobody does.

Before they were with the Pats for years they were with the Jets for years, so what?

This has been going on since January 1997 between these two teams and it's nothing new.

Amnorix
09-13-2007, 08:29 AM
The game was relatively close until halftime.The dude was caught at halftime, or late in the 2nd quarter.

When mumbles staff was able to digest the info transmitted to them during the 1st half. after that it was some great 2nd half adjustments! it seemed like they knew exactly what was coming


errr...makes no sense. The video guy was bagged when the game was close, as you say. Pats never saw whatever he had taped before that (it went ot eh NFL, remember). According to NY newspapers, the tape was taken at the end of hte first half (before halftime).

So no cameraman, and no tape, at halftime, and we kicked your ass the second half.

Well, for the record, we kicked your ass the first half too, but the scoreboard didn't show it. We were clearly dominating hte game everywhere else, however, but the scoreboard. In the second half, the scoreboard started reflecting the obvious reality on the field.

Amnorix
09-13-2007, 08:29 AM
The game was relatively close until halftime.The dude was caught at halftime, or late in the 2nd quarter.

When mumbles staff was able to digest the info transmitted to them during the 1st half. after that it was some great 2nd half adjustments! it seemed like they knew exactly what was coming

Yes, the Jets got there asses kicked. but to act like you are above the league or the NFL is pathetic.

Everybody tries to steal signals, thats why coaches cover there mouths when calling plays. but video taping and stealing radio signals and transmitting them to your players?

And, oh yes, LOL at your avatar. :D

DaKCMan AP
09-13-2007, 08:32 AM
That's not the point. The point is he was with the Pats for years. If he was so virtuous he'da reported it earlier. He's not doing it out of any virtue but to get another leg up over the Pats. Part of the continuing saga between him and BB. If this film was confiscated in the first quarter, then there was no film to use for the Pat's to unfairly win the game Sunday. Pats may have broken the rules but they did not get to cheat with it either as the film was confiscated before it could be used. Simple logic.

He is employed by the NY Jets. His loyalty should be to the NY Jets. What BB and the Pats were doing hurts the NY Jets. It is his responsibility and obligation to diffuse any unethical activity that his directly harming his employer. It's pretty simple.

Bill Parcells
09-13-2007, 08:38 AM
errr...makes no sense. The video guy was bagged when the game was close, as you say. Pats never saw whatever he had taped before that (it went ot eh NFL, remember). According to NY newspapers, the tape was taken at the end of hte first half (before halftime).



So no cameraman, and no tape, at halftime, and we kicked your ass the second half.

Well, for the record, we kicked your ass the first half too, but the scoreboard didn't show it. We were clearly dominating hte game everywhere else, however, but the scoreboard. In the second half, the scoreboard started reflecting the obvious reality on the field. [/QUOTE]



It might have had an effect on the game. nobody knows if this cameraman was communicating with somebody during the taping.

Do you?

Here's a great post from somebody else on another site about the Pats fans spinning.


Let me get this out of the way first...I still do not think the jets beat the pats last Sunday regardless of "spygate". I also do not think that the Pats would have been a .500 team these past 6 years if not for their cheating. That said, I find the hypocricy and arrogance of both the Patriots and their fans to this issue to be pathetic.

First the fans.

If I have to read one more freakin justification for what BB did I am going to puke. No JR Pats fans, he did not "misunderstand" the rules or "interpret them wrong"...he knew DAMN well what he was doing. Just like he knew damn well that if he sent 150K in cash to a marired woman (while he was married) via Fed Ex that it would pretty much prove that he was having some sort of affair with her. I have read where some fans think Holy Belli did this to expose this issue so it could be gotten rid of for good!!!!! Are you f-ing kidding me???? BL, Belicheck is a BAD person. He is paranoid and will do anyhting that he thinks will give himself an advantage. Whether that means skipping out on a contractual obligation to the jets or video taping other teams to steal signals or banging someone elses wife. Doesnt mean hes not a great coach, he is...but he's a BAD person. Just like a lot of very successful poeple are bad people. He knew EXACTLY what he was doing here and was so f-ing arrogant...he didn't care.

As to what effect this taping had on the Pats success...NONE of us has any true idea about that. Did the taping help them beat the jets this weekend? Maybe, maybe not. But if he was taping the jets last year, whose to say those tapes didnt help him? Whose to say they didnt tape the Rams and used the singals in that last game winning drive? How do we know its not the reason they beat Indy so easily all those year where suddenly Manning was "human"? maybe they taped Indys' O signals. Who knows? The point is to dismiss this as being "no big deal" or not having any impact on their success is ridiculous.

Finally, I have had to listen to the "everyone is doing it but the Pats just got caught" excuse. OK, then why did everyone come down so hard on Jason Giambi or Barry Bonds for doing steroids when we know so many others are doing it to. And if the answer is that doing steroids has a greater impact then tapinging signals then I say thats crap. Are Pats fans saying that cheating is OK...its the DEGREE of cheating that is the issue? And these are the same fans who cired like a bunch of pussies after they got a "bad call" v Denver in the playoffs and claimed it was because the refs were out to get them.

Pats fans have become nothing more then a bunch of spoiled, uppity, excuse making fools. I understand that they have 3 rings in 6 years and that affords them the right to be arrogant...but go back and watch some films from as recently as the early 90s. You saw empty stadiums and low season ticket base. Only after the hired Parcells did they build up the season ticket base and only after the new stadium and won SBs have they been sold out wiht a waiting list. Immena even in the Jets WORST years, all tickets were sld and the wait list has never dipped under 20,000. Jets fans may not show up to the game when thngs are bad, but they buy their tickets and never totally abandon their team like Pats fans did. Prior to 2001 the Pats held the disticntion of being the LONGEST exisiting franchise in ALL sports to not win a title since incpetion. Yet they act like their team has the Cowboys or Steelers or 49ers history. Pats fans are a bunch of arrogant front runners who will disappear like coachroaches in the light once this run of succes is over. You watch. Boston fans did it with the Celtics and will do it with the Pats when this run ends.

YOUR TEAM/HC CHEATED. DEAL WITH IT. END OF STORY!!!!

As to the Pats themselves,

I zero in on Fat Bobby Kraft first who wile being a great owner, seems to think he is on a par with Halas and the Maras when to comes to NFL importance. But this is a man who suppossedly holds honor so near and dear. A man who cried like a baby when Parcells dishonored him. A man who cut a 3rd round pick tw days after the draft after his wife told him to because the player had sexual assualt allegations against him. A man who has a zero tolerance policy in his stadium for fan behavior and took away season tickets from a fan because the fans FRIEND peed in a sink in a bathroom. So I would assume a man with such honor and a zero tolerance policy for the fans who buy his tickets would have the same type policy for his employees. Yet his initial statement about this seems to defend his coach and blow this of by syaing "everyone is just jealous of us". Shame on you for your hypopcrisy Bob Kraft. Your coach cheated. If you knew about it you are a compliant hypocrite. If you didnt and now you defend it, you are a blatant hypocrtie.

And the team...these examples of all that is good and pure in the NFL. Please. Between Brady's illegitimate kid and public abandonment of its mother, Belli's adulterous affair with a married woman, Harrison's HGH, they are not the shining beacons of all that is pure and good that they claim to be...this latest incident just compounds the destruction of that myth.

Look, I am sure every Pats fan that reads this will claim its just sour grapes from a Jets fan who wishes his team could win 3 titles...and maybe there is some truth to that. But it doesnt change the fact that Pats fans have become this arrogant, pompous group of apologists for anyhting their team does. Their team, whihc has had little to no real success prior to 2001, cheated and got caught and like it or not it raises questions as to how much of an illegal advatage they have had since BB took over. If they were smart, they would condemn what BB did rather then try to defend or minimize it. But they're not smart...instead they try to explain it away or flash their 3 rings as some sort of blanket exoneration for anyhting they do.

Grow up Pats fans. This is a sh*tty thing your arrogant coach has done apparantly for quite a while. Perhaps if you all had the balls to simply admit that rather then smugly dismissing it, other fans would have more repsect for you.

el borracho
09-13-2007, 08:38 AM
right, because Randy needed to know the defensive play in order to get through a triple team, 50 yards down field. This whole thing, maybe, helped them on two or three plays and would be a bigger issue if the game was even remotely close. New England blew the Jets out of the water that game, and chances are didn't need to steal signals.

unfortunatly they did steal signals and got bagged. this will blow over and we'll move on.
This isn't just about the Jets' game- the league spoke with the Patriots last year on a related theme. They didn't just do it this one time- they have been doing it at least since last year and probably longer. Cheating is a big, big deal and merits a big, big punishment.

As a fan, I am offended that 3 time SuperBowl winners have been cheating. That is not acceptable and a strong message needs to be sent to indicate that it is not acceptable.

el borracho
09-13-2007, 08:40 AM
Not to mention Mangini can't build his own team's talent without riding the Patriot's coatails...'er Pat's ex-staff coaches and players. This may be legal but it speaks about Mangini's ability as a head coach to coach up his own talent and has no doubt done his fair share of acting out his and BB's childish feud.
What the heck does that have to do with the Patriots cheating? How is that related?

BucEyedPea
09-13-2007, 08:51 AM
It doesn't. I wasn't claiming it did.

BucEyedPea
09-13-2007, 08:53 AM
According to NY newspapers, the tape was taken at the end of hte first half (before halftime).

So no cameraman, and no tape, at halftime, and we kicked your ass the second half.
I thought it was taken in the first quarter. Oh well, it still couldn't be used.
Yes. Bp's avy is pretty funny. :)

cadmonkey
09-13-2007, 09:29 AM
The game was relatively close until halftime.The dude was caught at halftime, or late in the 2nd quarter.

When mumbles staff was able to digest the info transmitted to them during the 1st half. after that it was some great 2nd half adjustments! it seemed like they knew exactly what was coming

Yes, the Jets got there asses kicked. but to act like you are above the league or the NFL is pathetic.

Everybody tries to steal signals, thats why coaches cover there mouths when calling plays. but video taping and stealing radio signals and transmitting them to your players?

In no way am I trying to say the Patriots are above the NFL, I am just saying that the games they were caught were routes. Complete and total blow outs.

And yes, it was close until half time but that still didn't stop the Jets from scoring. They sh*t bed offensively and had nothing to do with our stealing their defensive signs.

orange
09-13-2007, 09:34 AM
In no way am I trying to say the Patriots are above the NFL, I am just saying that the games they were caught were routes. Complete and total blow outs...


Which raises the question - Why did the Patriots cheat in games against overmatched opponents?

The obvious answer - Because they cheat in EVERY game, whoever the opponent.

el borracho
09-13-2007, 09:45 AM
In no way am I trying to say the Patriots are above the NFL, I am just saying that the games they were caught were routes. Complete and total blow outs.

And yes, it was close until half time but that still didn't stop the Jets from scoring. They sh*t bed offensively and had nothing to do with our stealing their defensive signs.
Oh, come on. Do you really think the Patriots only did this twice? You believe that, over multiple seasons, the two times the Patriots decided to cheat they were caught? No. They have been cheating since at least last season and probably longer. I know you are a Patriots' fan but even you as an NFL fan and a fan of competitive sports should be upset by this. Aren't you even a little angry and/ or disappointed?

cadmonkey
09-13-2007, 10:16 AM
Aren't you even a little angry and/ or disappointed?


Absolutely. I'm extrememly dissapointed........I'm also disappointed that WE are the one who GOT CAUGHT. I'm pissed that my team is being used as the whipping post.

I'm not saying that what they did was right, it most certainly isn't. BUT, I'm not going to say that we are the only ones doing anything shady on a weekly basis. We are just the first to get pinched.

Hey it happened, and what ever penalty the league dishes out I won't be able to argue with seeing how they were already warned, but don't be surprised when all the Patriots fans start to say "I told you so" when other teams start getting in trouble.

The only reason that Mangini said anything was because he knew it was going on from when he was on the Patriots. Which makes him a piece of shit hypocrite, seeing how he was fine with what was going on when it was helping him but once its on the other side he goes to mommy and daddy and tattles.

Bottom line I am not happy about this, but I can't imagine how much actual help this provided come game time.

BigChiefFan
09-13-2007, 10:35 AM
BB's got the red-ass.

Bill Parcells
09-13-2007, 10:40 AM
The only reason that Mangini said anything was because he knew it was going on from when he was on the Patriots. Which makes him a piece of shit hypocrite, seeing how he was fine with what was going on when it was helping him but once its on the other side he goes to mommy and daddy and tattles.
He's not a hypocrite if he didn't videotape anything while going 10-6 last year. wasn't mumbles his boss with the Pats? shouldn't mumbles be held responsible for what happens with the Pats?

ROYC75
09-13-2007, 10:46 AM
It does raise the question to " How Long Has this Been Going On " ?

NE has been around the top of the NFL for some time..... One would like to think they did it legitimately, but one could also doubt that now too.


Ref : Denver ....... cheat the salary cap for 2 SB wins, HOF player retires , got caught cheating and were fined and punished and but yet they haven't sniffed a SB since.

Does make one wonder a bit.........

el borracho
09-13-2007, 10:46 AM
Disappointed that "WE GOT CAUGHT" is a pretty good indication that you have no real problem with cheating. You, like the Patriots' organization are completely unapologetic for the breach of ethics.

You also "can't imagine how much actual help this provided come game time." Well, here is a clue: enough help that the Patriots continued to do it even after the leauge warned them not to and even against highly inferior teams like the Jets. If it wasn't very helpful why go to the trouble and why risk the consequences?

ROYC75
09-13-2007, 10:48 AM
Denver wasn't after they got caught....... they denied it helped them as well.

BigChiefFan
09-13-2007, 10:51 AM
Disappointed that "WE GOT CAUGHT" is a pretty good indication that you have no real problem with cheating. You, like the Patriots' organization are completely unapologetic for the breach of ethics.

You also "can't imagine how much actual help this provided come game time." Well, here is a clue: enough help that the Patriots continued to do it even after the leauge warned them not to and even against highly inferior teams like the Jets. If it wasn't very helpful why go to the trouble and why risk the consequences?

Good post. Some see what they WANT to see.

KcMizzou
09-13-2007, 10:57 AM
"Everybody does it" and "It didn't really help us anyway" are not valid defenses.

If that's the best you've got, you're screwed.

Again... try getting caught cheating at poker and use those explanations. See how that works out for you...

Bill Parcells
09-13-2007, 11:16 AM
This cartoon made me spit my coffee out of my mouth and up my nose this morning.

http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2007/09/13/gal_bp_09_13_2007.jpg

Bill Parcells
09-13-2007, 11:22 AM
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0EU1O-hGxgg"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0EU1O-hGxgg" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

DaKCMan AP
09-13-2007, 11:27 AM
What makes the planet great: The most active thread today is dominated by arguing amongst a Jets fan, Pats fans and a (bandwagon Pats and supposed) Bucs fan.

Mr. Laz
09-13-2007, 11:29 AM
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0EU1O-hGxgg"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0EU1O-hGxgg" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
outstanding!! ROFL

BigChiefFan
09-13-2007, 02:24 PM
Patriots under investigation for following rules, guidelines violations ...
1. Page 105 of the Game Operations manual says: "No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game." It later says: "All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."

2. And, a memo from Ray Anderson, NFL head of football operations, to head coaches and GMs on Sept. 6, 2006 said: "Video taping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent’s offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches’ booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."


BB cheated.

tk13
09-13-2007, 02:37 PM
I feel like we're on an AFC East board now.

I really wasn't THAT appalled by this whole thing in the beginning. But I have to say at this point I'm sick of hearing people defend Belichick. He's a ruthless person, he's always been that way. I thought that way before this garbage ever happened. I don't hate him, but that's who he is. Tough luck. I'm sure he's not the only coach who's tried this. But he is the only one who's been caught, so freaking deal with it. He broke the rules, he has to pay. There's no amount of rationalization that will change that. Everybody wants to make excuses and nobody wants to take responsibility.

I don't care who did what, when, where, or if it never affected a game they played in. It's against the rules, it's a serious offense, and they broke the rule. When you do that, you get punished, and it's nobody's fault but their own. I have no sympathy for anyone involved, players, fans or coaches.

BigChiefFan
09-13-2007, 03:20 PM
I feel like we're on an AFC East board now.

I really wasn't THAT appalled by this whole thing in the beginning. But I have to say at this point I'm sick of hearing people defend Belichick. He's a ruthless person, he's always been that way. I thought that way before this garbage ever happened. I don't hate him, but that's who he is. Tough luck. I'm sure he's not the only coach who's tried this. But he is the only one who's been caught, so freaking deal with it. He broke the rules, he has to pay. There's no amount of rationalization that will change that. Everybody wants to make excuses and nobody wants to take responsibility.

I don't care who did what, when, where, or if it never affected a game they played in. It's against the rules, it's a serious offense, and they broke the rule. When you do that, you get punished, and it's nobody's fault but their own. I have no sympathy for anyone involved, players, fans or coaches.
Great post. I hate to keep beating a dead horse, but when people are making excuses for this cheater, then rational thinking must challenge their excuse making.

Mr. Laz
09-13-2007, 03:27 PM
make the Pats forfeit the game retroactively.


that will stop it


jets are now 1-0 and the pats are 0-1


that will send a strong message

KcMizzou
09-13-2007, 03:33 PM
Petro was asking Brian Waters about this today. I half expected him to sidestep the question, but he really didn't.

He said if it's true, he thinks that "someone at the top" should be suspeneded, as well as the team losing draft pics.

He also said if it could be shown that the outcomes of and games were affected, they should have to forfeit them.

Pretty strong.

Thig Lyfe
09-13-2007, 03:35 PM
BELICHICK MUST DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BigChiefFan
09-13-2007, 03:40 PM
1 year suspension for BB and their first 3 rounds of picks, this year and next. They've been warned and they still did it.

orange
09-13-2007, 03:46 PM
Something like this would get their attention I think:

PARIS (AP) - The McLaren team was fined $100 million and stripped of all of its points in the constructors' standings Thursday in the spy scandal that has rocked the sport.

Team drivers Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso, who are currently 1-2 in the championship standings, were not punished and can continue to compete for the season title.
McLaren could still be penalized for the 2008 championship, FIA said in a statement after a hearing.

McLaren, which leads the current drivers' and constructors' standings, was punished by the World Motor Sports Council for allegedly using leaked secret technical documents belonging to F1 rival Ferrari.


http://msn.foxsports.com/motor/story/7217894?MSNHPHMA

redsurfer11
09-14-2007, 05:04 AM
Remove Belichick for 6 games.
Lose picks 2 and 3
Lose 16th of their salery cap next year.
Forfeit game to Jets.
6 million $ fine.
That should be enough to keep them from doing this again.


The Pats got off easy,

Amnorix
09-14-2007, 06:11 AM
1 year suspension for BB and their first 3 rounds of picks, this year and next. They've been warned and they still did it.

Are you sure you're not a Jets fan? :)

Amnorix
09-14-2007, 06:13 AM
The Pats got off easy,

No, you're insane.

The point is to punish the Patriots, not cripple them.

Would you honestly advocate this same punishment if the Chiefs had done this.

Bill Parcells
09-14-2007, 06:15 AM
The point is to punish the Patriots, not cripple them.


Punish them for what?

I thought it was Mangini's fault? ;)

Amnorix
09-14-2007, 06:34 AM
Punish them for what?

I thought it was Mangini's fault? ;)

Let's just say that the border war just got ridiculously personal. And Mangini better make sure he runs a VERY clean operation himself.

Bill Parcells
09-14-2007, 06:38 AM
Let's just say that the border war just got ridiculously personal. And Mangini better make sure he runs a VERY clean operation himself.
The border war has blown up like a MOFO!

I know it's been a difficult week for you guys, you had a big win and absolutely no time to gloat.

I'm interested to see how they look Sunday night.

Oh, and to suggest that this wasn't a distraction this week is sheer lunacy.

Amnorix
09-14-2007, 06:40 AM
The border war has blown up like a MOFO!

I know it's been a difficult week for you guys, you had a big win and absolutely no time to gloat.

I'm interested to see how they look Sunday night.

Oh, and to suggest that this wasn't a distraction this week is sheer lunacy.

Yeah. If only we were playing some stupid NFC team. I wouldn't care mucha bout a loss then. But this is for bye and home field advantage. IMHO if Pats had bye week we would've won last year against the Colts. We didn't even need HFA. Our defense was totally gassed the 2nd half, and we couldn't lift a finger to stop them.

That was our third playoff game, and their second. Doesn't take a genius to connect those dots.

cadmonkey
09-14-2007, 06:44 AM
Oh, and to suggest that this wasn't a distraction this week is sheer lunacy.


No doubt, but with it being a home game I think they should be ok. If this came out and they had to deal with a hostile road crowd I would be very concerned. But the "friendly" Gillette crowd will help calm the nerves.

BucEyedPea
09-14-2007, 07:16 AM
Yeah. If only we were playing some stupid NFC team. I wouldn't care mucha bout a loss then. But this is for bye and home field advantage. IMHO if Pats had bye week we would've won last year against the Colts. We didn't even need HFA. Our defense was totally gassed the 2nd half, and we couldn't lift a finger to stop them.

That was our third playoff game, and their second. Doesn't take a genius to connect those dots.


Wonder if the NFL will now investigate the rumor that Polian heated up the RCA Dome warmer than usual which didn't help the Pats having the flu?

Anything to get an edge. :p

BucEyedPea
09-14-2007, 07:20 AM
Any truth to the report or rumor that the NFL is going to be sweeping all stadiums in the league of bugs and listening devices?

If so. Beware all you righteous folks!

My take on this...is that this type of thing will go on in some other way.
One idea is to just have one guy or two, who stand on the sidelines making notes, even quick sketches of signals while observing the play on the field. No technology usde and within the rules. Legit and legal. There now, I think I just created a new job for myself. :)

cadmonkey
09-14-2007, 07:31 AM
Wonder if the NFL will now investigate the rumor that Polian heated up the RCA Dome warmer than usual which didn't help the Pats having the flu?

Anything to get an edge. :p

or pumping in crowd noise over the P.A.