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View Full Version : Smash-mouth Hermyball?


KCJohnny
09-13-2007, 07:41 AM
I think the Chiefs are set up to play smash-mouth. They have 3 TEs that we know of that go 250+ (Gonzo, Dunn, Wilson) and 2 huge WRs that go 220+ (Bowe/Sippio) and Boomer at FB (250). This could be a big, bruising team if they can learn to roll behind McIntosh (who I thinked looked great last week, especially on running downs). They already have 2 PB RBs - c'mon! All Huard has to do (in theory) is hand off/pitch out and use play action 15-20x a game. According to Hermyball, the D will keep the score down and the O will burn up lots of clock.

I know we're all depressed, but I can see this scenario working with 30+ rushes per game.

boogblaster
09-13-2007, 07:57 AM
Its a game-plan anyway ....

HonestChieffan
09-13-2007, 08:04 AM
and the beat goes on...

Extra Point
09-13-2007, 08:09 AM
And in other news, LaDanian Tomlinson has challenged Bill Belichick to a Czeckoslovakian face slapping match using rubber chickens.

Mile High Mania
09-13-2007, 08:14 AM
Sounds fun, indeed.

This is what Herm does though... with the Jets, he took a team that ranked 15th in yards the previous year to the following ranks in yardage during his 5 years: 26th / 23rd / 21st / 12th / 30th

The Jets were 18th in points pre-Herm and he took them to 17th / 15th / 23rd / 17th / 29th.

Herm no like offense.

Extra Point
09-13-2007, 08:15 AM
Herm no like winning, either.

DaKCMan AP
09-13-2007, 08:17 AM
Create another 3 threads about it and maybe I'll read one of them.

el borracho
09-13-2007, 08:54 AM
Three TEs and a backup FB? Great! Now all we need is an Oline and a top 5 defense!

htismaqe
09-13-2007, 09:03 AM
You can see it working?

For what?

Superior talent + Hermyball = playoff embarrassment

Current talent + Hermyball = worst season in Carl Peterson's tenure

Chiefnj2
09-13-2007, 09:06 AM
Herm should incorporate a Cowheresq approach and run 1-2 trick plays per game. Those are the plays the team has to hit on to move the chains and score some points. A nice flea flicker with LJ or LJ throwing a HB pass. If the team is losing in the 4th quarter and past their own 30 yard line - fake punt.

the Talking Can
09-13-2007, 09:08 AM
pleasekillme

htismaqe
09-13-2007, 09:10 AM
Herm should incorporate a Cowheresq approach and run 1-2 trick plays per game. Those are the plays the team has to hit on to move the chains and score some points. A nice flea flicker with LJ or LJ throwing a HB pass. If the team is losing in the 4th quarter and past their own 30 yard line - fake punt.

Trick plays aren't just risky. To Herm they're a sign of insanity...

bobbything
09-13-2007, 09:16 AM
You can see it working?

For what?

Superior talent + Hermyball = playoff embarrassment

Current talent + Hermyball = worst season in Carl Peterson's tenure
Just to play devil's advocate htismaqe, but, aren't you on record as saying that we'll be close to a .500 team because Carl won't "allow" a terrible season?

I'm in complete agreement with you though. I don't think we'll ever be bad enough for this team to get a decent draft pick and build around that. And, even if we were to somehow go 4-12, Carl would end up drafting the COTF (Center of the Future) as to not actually have to take a risk on a QB.

htismaqe
09-13-2007, 09:27 AM
Just to play devil's advocate htismaqe, but, aren't you on record as saying that we'll be close to a .500 team because Carl won't "allow" a terrible season?

I'm in complete agreement with you though. I don't think we'll ever be bad enough for this team to get a decent draft pick and build around that. And, even if we were to somehow go 4-12, Carl would end up drafting the COTF (Center of the Future) as to not actually have to take a risk on a QB.

I thought that Herm's philosophy and Damon Huard together would be enough to get us to that 7-9 plateau. Damon Huard looked ALOT worse than I thought he would (he played worse at Houston than he did AT Denver last year) and the defense didn't look as good as I thought it would. I think we still have big question marks there...

Tribal Warfare
09-13-2007, 09:32 AM
the defense didn't look as good as I thought it would. I think we still have big question marks there...


Without Jared, IMO the Defense looked pretty good by allowing 13 points. Boone got some major push up the middle too, I'm not as worried as I was during the preseason.

htismaqe
09-13-2007, 09:34 AM
Without Jared, IMO the Defense looked pretty good by allowing 13 points. Boone got some major push up the middle too, I'm not as worried as I was during the preseason.

It was the Texans though...

I think we're gonna get swept by the Broncos, which I didn't think before. And I'd bet we'll get swept by the Chargers too.

bobbything
09-13-2007, 09:39 AM
It was the Texans though...

I think we're gonna get swept by the Broncos, which I didn't think before. And I'd bet we'll get swept by the Chargers too.
I thought the defense looked exactly like I thought it would. A predictable "bend/break" type of defense that you get with a cover 2. The problem I have is that Herm keeps preaching about "getting the defense off the field." Well, hard to do that when you play a cover 2.

If we were in the top 5 of TOP (like we were under Vermeil; oh how soon people forget that simply because we finished out the drives 90% of the time), then it would be different.

Tribal Warfare
09-13-2007, 09:45 AM
It was the Texans though...

I think we're gonna get swept by the Broncos, which I didn't think before. And I'd bet we'll get swept by the Chargers too.



I believe this will be true, but it won't be due to defensive play. Instead the problem shall lie on KC's "offense" that won't be able to score 14 points.

StcChief
09-13-2007, 10:13 AM
Sounds great on paper.... but execution must really improve since or Preseason was just tryouts.

KCJohnny
09-13-2007, 10:50 AM
Sounds fun, indeed.

This is what Herm does though... with the Jets, he took a team that ranked 15th in yards the previous year to the following ranks in yardage during his 5 years: 26th / 23rd / 21st / 12th / 30th

The Jets were 18th in points pre-Herm and he took them to 17th / 15th / 23rd / 17th / 29th.

Herm no like offense.

Well, he certainly scared the bejeebies out of me with that nutty "30 ppg = arena league" comment...
Still, there's a reason you play the games. We can all sit here and groan out loud or get behind the team and root for the red. Personally, until let's say, week 8, I'm banking on the Chiefs turning this thing around. Too many really good players on this team for a 4-12 season. As bad as Herm's stat's were, he took the Jets to the playoffs in 3 of 5 seasons, something Dick Vermiel could not do.

HemiEd
09-13-2007, 10:55 AM
Sounds fun, indeed.

This is what Herm does though... with the Jets, he took a team that ranked 15th in yards the previous year to the following ranks in yardage during his 5 years: 26th / 23rd / 21st / 12th / 30th

The Jets were 18th in points pre-Herm and he took them to 17th / 15th / 23rd / 17th / 29th.

Herm no like offense.

He has accelerated his program in KC. 1st to 16th to 32nd. Here is to hoping he has no longer of a tenure as HC than Gunther did.

BigChiefFan
09-13-2007, 10:56 AM
Trick plays aren't just risky. To Herm they're a sign of insanity...
I disagree. Your letting your discord for Herm get in the way. In Herm's defense, the FIRST play of the game for our offense was a KENNISON RUN.

Got give the man a little credit.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-13-2007, 11:00 AM
An end around is not a trick play.

Mr. Laz
09-13-2007, 11:00 AM
is there a significant difference between hermyball and martyball?

el borracho
09-13-2007, 11:00 AM
It was the Texans though...

I think we're gonna get swept by the Broncos, which I didn't think before. And I'd bet we'll get swept by the Chargers too.
I already expected to get swept by the Chargers and Broncos. I expect to lose to the Bears, too, which is why the Vikings game will be telling. If we look terrible against them at home we are in for a much worse season than I originally thought.

bobbything
09-13-2007, 11:01 AM
As bad as Herm's stat's were, he took the Jets to the playoffs in 3 of 5 seasons, something Dick Vermiel could not do.
If Vermeil had the same kind of luck that Edwards had, he would have gone to the playoffs 2 out of his 5 seasons. Conversely, if Edwards had the luck Vermeil had, he would have only gone once.

I will say that Edwards' teams getting into the playoffs had as much to do with the rest of the league as it did his coaching ability.

BigChiefFan
09-13-2007, 11:01 AM
An end around is not a trick play.
A WR RUNNING the ball is in my book. It's a rare play, especially for the Chiefs.

bobbything
09-13-2007, 11:03 AM
A WR RUNNING the ball is in my book. It's a rare play, especially for the Chiefs.
It is now. It wasn't from 2000-2006.

BigChiefFan
09-13-2007, 11:07 AM
Owned...

Trick Play - Includes all offensive trick plays; ex: Reverse, double reverse or END AROUND, Running back, Wide receiver or Tight end pass, fake field goal, fake punt, etc.

bobbything
09-13-2007, 11:11 AM
Owned...

Trick Play - Includes all offensive trick plays; ex: Reverse, double reverse or END AROUND, Running back, Wide receiver or Tight end pass, fake field goal, fake punt, etc.
If it were still in the Chiefs' repertoire then I wouldn't necessarily call it a trick play. If you have to game plan for an end around, or a halfback pass (ala San Diego), then they become no more of a "trick" than a play action pass.

I liked how plays such as these were used with relative regularity to force the other team to be prepared for another angle.

BigChiefFan
09-13-2007, 11:14 AM
If it were still in the Chiefs' repertoire then I wouldn't necessarily call it a trick play. If you have to game plan for an end around, or a halfback pass (ala San Diego), then they become no more of a "trick" than a play action pass.

I liked how plays such as these were used with relative regularity to force the other team to be prepared for another angle.
The fact is, it's a TRICK play and somebody called me out on it. Obviously since we don't run it often, only furthers my point.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-13-2007, 11:15 AM
Owned...

Trick Play - Includes all offensive trick plays; ex: Reverse, double reverse or END AROUND, Running back, Wide receiver or Tight end pass, fake field goal, fake punt, etc.

In nearly every game you watch, you'll see an end around or a reverse.

An end around is nothing more than an exaggerated counter.

It's not the same as a HB Pass, a WR lateral pass, a fake figgie, etc.

I guess you could call a draw or play action pass a trick play too...

BigChiefFan
09-13-2007, 11:17 AM
In nearly every game you watch, you'll see an end around or a reverse.

An end around is nothing more than an exaggerated counter.

It's not the same as a HB Pass, a WR lateral pass, a fake figgie, etc.

I guess you could call a draw or play action pass a trick play too...Tell it to the DEFINITION maker. It's a trick play whether you admit it or not.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-13-2007, 11:17 AM
The fact is, it's a TRICK play and somebody called me out on it. Obviously since we don't run it often, only furthers my point.

We had 10 WR runs in 2006, 14 in 2005. That's not really a precipitous decline.

kcfanXIII
09-13-2007, 11:20 AM
your game plan would work with a decent quarter back. what good does a play action pass do, if the play fake does not fool the defense, and you can't throw the ball down field more than 15 yards? the oline is in better shape than i originally thought, but the play calling and the "play it safe" option of damon huardable will be the down fall of this team. KcJohnny, all you're doing is setting your self up for a very large therapy bill with your eternal optimism.

the defense is better than last year, but if the offense can't sustain a drive, the defense will suffer. they will wear down and start giving up plays when they get tired. by week 8 i bet we're hearing grumblings of a locker room divide amongst offense and defense. there's probably already one about who should be starting at QB.

Logical
09-13-2007, 11:20 AM
pleasekillmeYou could take a contract out on yourself. Then again you could do us all a favor and take it out on Carl and Herm.

Tribal Warfare
09-13-2007, 11:21 AM
is there a significant difference between hermyball and martyball?


Herm embraces this brand of offense, but Marty was/is trying to get out of that stigma he set.

suds79
09-13-2007, 11:22 AM
In nearly every game you watch, you'll see an end around or a reverse.

An end around is nothing more than an exaggerated counter.

It's not the same as a HB Pass, a WR lateral pass, a fake figgie, etc.

I guess you could call a draw or play action pass a trick play too...

Shoot. The chargers run a trick play what seems like every week when LT throws it.

Who cares as long as it's easy to execute.

Mr. Laz
09-13-2007, 11:25 AM
Herm embraces this brand of offense, but Marty was/is trying to get out of that stigma he set.
yes, i understand that there is a difference between marty shottenheimer and Herman edwards

marty is no longer trying to run "martyball"



but when he was ....... is there a difference between "martyball" and "Hermyball"?

Reerun_KC
09-13-2007, 11:36 AM
anything outside the ass cheeks of the center is considered Trickery/arena football to Herm...

carlos3652
09-13-2007, 11:37 AM
the defense is better than last year, but if the offense can't sustain a drive, the defense will suffer. they will wear down and start giving up plays when they get tired. by week 8 i bet we're hearing grumblings of a locker room divide amongst offense and defense. there's probably already one about who should be starting at QB.

We had that every year Dick was here too... when the last place _fense was in town...

RoyalsRule
09-13-2007, 11:38 AM
smashed herpe balls?

bobbything
09-13-2007, 11:40 AM
The fact is, it's a TRICK play and somebody called me out on it. Obviously since we don't run it often, only furthers my point.
Not to get into a semantic debate here, but if a team uses a particular play (halfback pass in SD, end around in KC) often, then how is it a "trick?"

How is it any more of a trick than a screen pass?

I see what you're saying, but to call certain plays "trick" plays is to infer that they're gimmicks, or not to be taken seriously. These plays worked fairly well when used regularly.

htismaqe
09-13-2007, 11:50 AM
yes, i understand that there is a difference between marty shottenheimer and Herman edwards

marty is no longer trying to run "martyball"

but when he was ....... is there a difference between "martyball" and "Hermyball"?

No, there is no difference.

It's not about X's and O's or rushing vs. passing. It's about playing scared and playing not to lose instead of playing to win.

TinyEvel
09-13-2007, 11:52 AM
If I were game planning against the Chiefs, I'd just tell my safeties to let the WR's go. They aint gonna throw past 15 yards anyway.

Rausch
09-13-2007, 12:01 PM
No, there is no difference.

It's not about X's and O's or rushing vs. passing. It's about playing scared and playing not to lose instead of playing to win.

If we're supposed to be this big smashmouth team I don't understand why we've got Huard throwing the ball 30+ times a game. I understand we were behind but we never let LJ get going...

FAX
09-13-2007, 12:05 PM
Herm should incorporate a Cowheresq approach and run 1-2 trick plays per game. Those are the plays the team has to hit on to move the chains and score some points. A nice flea flicker with LJ or LJ throwing a HB pass. If the team is losing in the 4th quarter and past their own 30 yard line - fake punt.

Herm loves the trick play. Last week he went deep into the playbook and came up with several ... the slant pass, the run off tackle, and the quarterback backwards slide for negative yards.

Have faith.

FAX

Calcountry
09-13-2007, 12:14 PM
An end around is not a trick play.IN the Herm-bone offense it is. Look at how risky it was, we lost a WR on it.

That ought to teach Herm a lesson for being so aggressive.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-13-2007, 12:15 PM
the Herm-bone offense

ROFL

JohninGpt
09-13-2007, 12:16 PM
Herm loves the trick play. Last week he went deep into the playbook and came up with several ... the slant pass, the run off tackle, and the quarterback backwards slide for negative yards.

Have faith.

FAX
Aren't those plays a little "complicated"?

htismaqe
09-13-2007, 12:17 PM
If we're supposed to be this big smashmouth team I don't understand why we've got Huard throwing the ball 30+ times a game. I understand we were behind but we never let LJ get going...

Herm/Martyball doesn't necessarily equal smashmouth. It doesn't mean running the ball at all.

It's the act of not taking risks because risks MIGHT equal turnovers. A Martyball team could throw the ball 60 times a game and still be Martyball. It all has to do with playing safe and scared.

In this case, we didn't get LJ going because he missed all of camp. Herm was SCARED to get him going.

Fish
09-13-2007, 01:09 PM
http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/7/blogpurplejesusee7.jpg

Chiefnj2
09-13-2007, 01:15 PM
Herm's really a conservative west-coast offense type coach.

HemiEd
09-13-2007, 01:20 PM
Herm's really a conservative west-coast offense type coach.

SHUT UP!! WTF are you talking about, nothing has changed with the plays, they are the same! Haven't you heard? LMAO

Rausch
09-13-2007, 01:29 PM
In this case, we didn't get LJ going because he missed all of camp. Herm was SCARED to get him going.

True 'dat.

You're not paying him millions to brood on the sidelines like a douchebag, hand him the ****ing ball...

htismaqe
09-13-2007, 01:35 PM
Herm's really a conservative west-coast offense type coach.

Yep.

When you combine the WCO with playing scared, and then add a pinch of Damon Huard and a sprinkle of WR's that can't get YAC, you get this horrible abomination that they try to pass off as an NFL offense...

FAX
09-13-2007, 01:42 PM
Herm's running the West Coast offense? This is the San Andreas Fault offense after the big one.

The lights are off and there's a sh*t load of rubble just about everywhere you look.

FAX

phobia's skidmark
09-13-2007, 03:00 PM
We are a bunch of whiney bitches, just like the chiefs.

KCJohnny
09-13-2007, 03:37 PM
I disagree. Your letting your discord for Herm get in the way. In Herm's defense, the FIRST play of the game for our offense was a KENNISON RUN.

Got give the man a little credit.

:clap:

Dave Lane
09-13-2007, 03:43 PM
Trick plays aren't just risky. To Herm they're a sign of insanity...


Thanks Parker! :)

Dave