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View Full Version : Our failure to address the offensive line is biting us in the ass!!


PunkinDrublic
10-07-2007, 07:24 PM
It goes back to last year. Willie Roaf was retiring but rather than trying to find someone who would be able to suitably replace him, Herm and Carl were just banking on Roaf not retiring and changing his mind. Then in the draft, he drafts a ****ing kicker before he drafts an o-lineman. It's idiotic oversights like this that make me question Carls commitment to doing whatever it takes to make this a better football team.

scott free
10-07-2007, 07:38 PM
I'll be honest, i THOUGHT we'd be much better than this.

I THOUGHT Welbourn would look good at RG.

I THOUGHT Terry was the future at RT.

I THOUGHT Wiggy could gird his loins for another go'round.

I THOUGHT McIntosh would be solid...& actually i still do think he was a good grab.

But yeah, its killing us right now...even when Solari is making decent calls, this crew couldnt run block the Permian Panthers.

Molitoth
10-07-2007, 07:49 PM
You can't draft a whole team in 1 year. The chiefs are looking pretty solid in most positions besides the O-line and at QB. If next year they do not address the O-line, then yes you can bitch. They actually had a decent offseason imo.

Mr. Laz
10-07-2007, 07:52 PM
we are going to be searching for a "good" offensive line until we get a good offensive game plan.

2bikemike
10-07-2007, 07:52 PM
It goes back to last year. Willie Roaf was retiring but rather than trying to find someone who would be able to suitably replace him, Herm and Carl were just banking on Roaf not retiring and changing his mind. Then in the draft, he drafts a ****ing kicker before he drafts an o-lineman. It's idiotic oversights like this that make me question Carls commitment to doing whatever it takes to make this a better football team.

If you ask me it goes farther back than that. They knew Shields was year to year for a couple years before he actually walked. Roaf played one more year than I thought he would. And IIRC he was pretty instrumental in getting Shields to come back

BCD
10-07-2007, 07:55 PM
I think they tried to address it. Its just that Svitek sucks.

Chieftain58
10-07-2007, 07:56 PM
Get rid of Solari, he doesn't know his players...

Basileus777
10-07-2007, 07:56 PM
I think they tried to address it. Its just that Svitek sucks.

Svitek was a late round project, Carl and co thinking that was enough to replace Roaf is exactly the problem.

BCD
10-07-2007, 07:58 PM
Svitek was a late round project, Carl and co thinking that was enough to replace Roaf is exactly the problem.yep

Deberg_1990
10-07-2007, 07:59 PM
Rome wasnt built in a day. The Chiefs have had several areas they needed to address for years. We rebuilt the D the past 2 years and then we drafted Bowe this year to help the offense.

DV's draft failures are still hurting this franchise.

When you dont draft well, thats how you end up with retread, stopgap turds like Terry, Turley and Welbourn

milkman
10-07-2007, 08:02 PM
DV's draft failures are still hurting this franchise.

That's the problem in a nutshell.

ChiefsCountry
10-07-2007, 08:03 PM
If we would have drafted a OL in first three rounds during Dick's last few years everybody would have blown a gasket when the defense needed rebuilding. Now I wanted to draft Marshal Yanda this year but they went with the Tank & Turk instead.

But looking at 2008, it is very good draft for OL.

Mr. Laz
10-07-2007, 08:06 PM
Svitek was a late round project, Carl and co thinking that was enough to replace Roaf is exactly the problem.
Dave szott - drafted 7th round
will shields - drafted 3rd round
Brian Waters - undrafted

Logical
10-07-2007, 08:07 PM
It goes back to last year. Willie Roaf was retiring but rather than trying to find someone who would be able to suitably replace him, Herm and Carl were just banking on Roaf not retiring and changing his mind. Then in the draft, he drafts a ****ing kicker before he drafts an o-lineman. It's idiotic oversights like this that make me question Carls commitment to doing whatever it takes to make this a better football team.

I assume you mean Will Shields or you are in a time warp. Your point is still correct.

Mr. Laz
10-07-2007, 08:08 PM
Rome wasnt built in a day. The Chiefs have had several areas they needed to address for years. We rebuilt the D the past 2 years and then we drafted Bowe this year to help the offense.

DV's draft failures are still hurting this franchise.

When you dont draft well, thats how you end up with retread, stopgap turds like Terry, Turley and Welbourn
yep .... blaming the guys that are no longer here is much easier to do.

Silock
10-07-2007, 08:08 PM
Rome wasnt built in a day. The Chiefs have had several areas they needed to address for years. We rebuilt the D the past 2 years and then we drafted Bowe this year to help the offense.

DV's draft failures are still hurting this franchise.

When you dont draft well, thats how you end up with retread, stopgap turds like Terry, Turley and Welbourn

Yup. Exactly right.

Deberg_1990
10-07-2007, 08:09 PM
If we would have drafted a OL in first three rounds during Dick's last few years everybody would have blown a gasket when the defense needed rebuilding. Now I wanted to draft Marshal Yanda this year but they went with the Tank & Turk instead.

But looking at 2008, it is very good draft for OL.



Its all a snowball effect. If the Chiefs had drafted Henderson or Haynesworth instead Sims, then we wouldnt have needed to use picks on Siavii, or perhaps even Tank or Turk. We would have been able to draft more O-linemen.



If we could have drafted a decent WR years ago, then we wouldnt have had to use a 1st round pick on a WR this year.

DV f****d this franchise.

Sims, Freeman, Siavii and Wilson, are still killing us in their own way...

Basileus777
10-07-2007, 08:12 PM
Dave szott - drafted 7th round
will shields - drafted 3rd round
Brian Waters - undrafted

I think its different when you are looking for a guard than a left tackle. Its not all that uncommon to find good interior linemen later in the draft, but finding left tackles in the late rounds is much much different. In any case you shouldn't be staking the entire future of your oline on a late round LT that was a defensive player in college.

suds79
10-07-2007, 08:17 PM
Its all a snowball effect. If the Chiefs had drafted Henderson or Haynesworth instead Sims, then we wouldnt have needed to use picks on Siavii, or perhaps even Tank or Turk. We would have been able to draft more O-linemen.



If we could have drafted a decent WR years ago, then we wouldnt have had to use a 1st round pick on a WR this year.

DV f****d this franchise.

Sims, Freeman, Siavii and Wilson, are still killing us in their own way...

I agree.

I like the changes Herm has made.

He and Carl are certainly drafting way better than DV ever did.

I fully expect for them to overhaul the O-line next year.

Just wait and see.

Mr. Laz
10-07-2007, 08:21 PM
and what about the crappy drafts BEFORE vermeil got here ..... without them Vermeil wouldn't of had to put together and offense of Veteran free agents.

BigRedChief
10-07-2007, 08:34 PM
You can't draft a whole team in 1 year. The chiefs are looking pretty solid in most positions besides the O-line and at QB. If next year they do not address the O-line, then yes you can bitch. They actually had a decent offseason imo.
BS. You adress OL issues via the draft 2-3 years before you have to have them as bedrocks of your ol.

We are in this situation because we drafted Sims, Sailive and Freeman and whiffed on those. If one of those are any good we could have taken a good OL at those spots.

This is on King Carl.

milkman
10-07-2007, 08:38 PM
BS. You adress OL issues via the draft 2-3 years before you have to have them as bedrocks of your ol.

We are in this situation because we drafted Sims, Sailive and Freeman and whiffed on those. If one of those are any good we could have taken a good OL at those spots.

This is on King Carl.

The drafts over the years have been a direct reflection of the player types that each HC has looked for.

Ultimately, the blame for poor drafting falls to Carl.

However, anyone paying any attention can see that the players drafted belong to the HC.

PunkinDrublic
10-07-2007, 10:26 PM
You can't draft a whole team in 1 year. The chiefs are looking pretty solid in most positions besides the O-line and at QB. If next year they do not address the O-line, then yes you can bitch. They actually had a decent offseason imo.

So drafting a kicker was a bigger need then an O-lineman? Look how easily bustlock was replaced.

TEX
10-07-2007, 11:09 PM
What hurt most is missing in the draft with Williams and Black. What also hurt was losing Lija to the Colts (after deciding to keep Williams). We aslo never got a real replacement for John Tait. The weakening of the O-Line has been going on for awhile and not just since Roaf left.

Silock
10-08-2007, 01:18 AM
So drafting a kicker was a bigger need then an O-lineman? Look how easily bustlock was replaced.


And Rayner missed a FG. Time to bring back Medlock.

Tribal Warfare
10-08-2007, 03:11 AM
Dave szott - drafted 7th round
will shields - drafted 3rd round
Brian Waters - undrafted



and they're all Guards, it's more difficult to find a OTOTF than a Guard due to working out in space without making a mistake

StcChief
10-08-2007, 08:00 AM
Rome wasnt built in a day. The Chiefs have had several areas they needed to address for years. We rebuilt the D the past 2 years and then we drafted Bowe this year to help the offense.

DV's draft failures are still hurting this franchise.

When you dont draft well, thats how you end up with retread, stopgap turds like Terry, Turley and Welbourn DV's busts are our why we toast now.

I've been happy with Herms drafts and signings McIntosh, Boone, Edwards, Nap Harris.

Yesterday The two week rested Jags just have a solid D line and Terry,Welbourne can't get any holes for LJ. Sweeps didn't work.

Brock
10-08-2007, 08:02 AM
It goes a lot farther back than last year. Like they thought Willie Roaf was going to play forever. His replacement should have been drafted 3 or 4 years ago.

TEX
10-08-2007, 08:31 AM
It goes a lot farther back than last year. Like they thought Willie Roaf was going to play forever. His replacement should have been drafted 3 or 4 years ago.

He was - but he went to Chicago.

Adept Havelock
10-08-2007, 08:44 AM
He was - but he went to Chicago.


Yep. Seems to me there's one person in particular to blame for that. Something about a horrible negotiation that left a huge amount of bad blood between John Tait and someone else. Now, If I could just remember who that was...

Delano
10-08-2007, 08:53 AM
I always thought that time to "gel" was important with an offensive line. If that is the case, it just adds to the problems the team is seeing.

McIntosh missed most of his opportunity to get practice reps because of injury. Welbourne is nursing a body suffering from a steroid vacuum. Wiegmann is just old and small. I don't remember the situation with Terry during the offseason, but I can't imagine he has had enough game experience to play up to his ability. Waters is suffering from the rest of the guys sucking.

jidar
10-08-2007, 08:54 AM
I'm not sure I buy this.

run blocking and pass blocking are different animals, but are they that much different that a line can be pretty good at one and terrible at the other?
What's going on?

HemiEd
10-08-2007, 08:59 AM
Rome wasnt built in a day. The Chiefs have had several areas they needed to address for years. We rebuilt the D the past 2 years and then we drafted Bowe this year to help the offense.

DV's draft failures are still hurting this franchise.

When you dont draft well, thats how you end up with retread, stopgap turds like Terry, Turley and Welbourn

Sad but True. I liked a lot of what Vermeil did, but the defensive draft busts are still killing this team.
Ty Law proved yesterday, that we need to hit the lottery on a CB sooner rather than later as well.

Mr. Laz
10-08-2007, 09:41 AM
I'm not sure I buy this.

run blocking and pass blocking are different animals, but are they that much different that a line can be pretty good at one and terrible at the other?
What's going on?
yes ..... it's much harder to help Wiegmann on a running play than it is on a passing play.


on a passing play wiegmann can dig in and use good leverage and get by with just a couple of "arm pushes" from the guard next to him.


on a running play, wiegmann has "to move" the defensive tackle which means he needs complete commitment from a guard in a double team.

Chief Henry
10-08-2007, 09:45 AM
Everything starts with the line play. Our offensive line is not good at all.

GoHuge
10-08-2007, 10:01 AM
So it seems like people think Carl and his coaches are the reason the OL cupboard is empty. You can blame it on Vermeil, but then you have to come back and put that ultimately on Peterson. We are at least two years away from rebuilding this line if we don't miss on a single acquisition. By then your going to have to start looking for a replacement for Brian Waters. We've got a long way to go to fix this thing.

KC Tattoo
10-08-2007, 10:06 AM
Tony Ugoh LT was available for us in the 2nd round, we picked Turk McBride. The Colts picked him even though they still had Terry Glenn and they did not know he was going to retire. Tony Ugoh would have been great for us and he could have played RT this year & be a starter for us. We still could have gotten a DT like "Tank" in the third round.

So far I think Turk is a big push over and O-linemen are haveing their way with him.

I really wanted us to draft Tony Ugoh too. He would have been a major upgrade for our O-line. I think the Colts just git "IT" when it comes to drafting and why they continue to be a Super Bowl bound team. They rebuild while being good, they don't just fill with go stop players. They have back up plans for injuries. I am jellous of the Colts and would like the Chiefs to learn from the Colts on how to build a Championship team through the Draft.

Mr. Laz
10-08-2007, 10:08 AM
Everything starts with the line play. Our offensive line is not good at all.
that's about a preschool outlook on football


if it's all about the offense line ..... then why doesn't every team draft offensive lineman in the 1st round every year?

why do great QB's make 8 million per year while most OL make 2 million?

why is the left tackle position considered to be the only "skill" position on the Oline?

DaneMcCloud
10-08-2007, 10:21 AM
Tony Ugoh LT was available for us in the 2nd round, we picked Turk McBride.

Absolutely false.

Indy chose Ugoh with the 36th pick overall and gave up their 2008 number #1 to get him.

McBride was taken with the 54th pick overall.

Ugoh would have been a very nice pick but the Chiefs obviously felt they had the LT position covered with the acquisition of D-Mac.

Apparently, they were incorrect.

Chief Henry
10-08-2007, 10:21 AM
that's about preschool outlook on football


if it's all about the offense line then why doesn't every team draft offensive lineman in the 1st round every year?

why do great QB's make 8 million per year while most OL make 2 million?

why is the left tackle position considered to be the only "skill" position on the Oline?


Jesus, what rock did you just crall out from underneath.

Jilly
10-08-2007, 10:24 AM
You can't draft a whole team in 1 year. The chiefs are looking pretty solid in most positions besides the O-line and at QB. If next year they do not address the O-line, then yes you can bitch. They actually had a decent offseason imo.

except next year our corners will be old...they're already starting to look a little worn out

Mr. Laz
10-08-2007, 10:26 AM
Jesus, what rock did you just crall out from underneath.
Rock of football knowledge apparently ...... cause you got nuttin'

jidar
10-08-2007, 10:31 AM
I can't believe we didn't just go out and buy a Willie Roaf replacement. They have HOF top 5 all-time Left Tackles at Wal-Mart right?

KC Tattoo
10-08-2007, 10:34 AM
Absolutely false.

Indy chose Ugoh with the 36th pick overall and gave up their 2008 number #1 to get him.

McBride was taken with the 54th pick overall.

Ugoh would have been a very nice pick but the Chiefs obviously felt they had the LT position covered with the acquisition of D-Mac.

Apparently, they were incorrect.

Thank you for correcting me. I didn't realize they traded up for Ugoh. Just shows that the Colts were preparing for Terry Glenn to retire then. We didn't make good enough plans for Willie Roaf or Will Shields retireing.

Brock
10-08-2007, 10:36 AM
I can't believe we didn't just go out and buy a Willie Roaf replacement. They have HOF top 5 all-time Left Tackles at Wal-Mart right?

It doesn't appear they even tried, other than spending late round picks on Brett Williams, Jordan Black, Svitek and the like.

Woodrow Call
10-08-2007, 10:41 AM
Its time to shake things up. I'd replace either Welbourn or Wiegman with Niswanger and throw Taylor in at RT.

DaneMcCloud
10-08-2007, 10:47 AM
Its time to shake things up. I'd replace either Welbourn or Wiegman with Niswanger and throw Taylor in at RT.

WHY in the hell would you do that?

Would you like to end Brodie Croyle's career before it has a chance to begin?

6th round draft choices don't generally make Pro-Bowl players, especially in their first outing.

:shake:

KCChiefsMan
10-08-2007, 11:34 AM
weren't the Cowboys bitching about their offensive line last year until Romo stepped in?

Basileus777
10-08-2007, 11:36 AM
Absolutely false.

Indy chose Ugoh with the 36th pick overall and gave up their 2008 number #1 to get him.

McBride was taken with the 54th pick overall.

Ugoh would have been a very nice pick but the Chiefs obviously felt they had the LT position covered with the acquisition of D-Mac.

Apparently, they were incorrect.

D-Mac isn't the problem, he might be the best player on the line at this point. The interior line, particularly Wiegmann and Welbourne, are the issue.

Chief Henry
10-08-2007, 02:59 PM
Rock of football knowledge apparently ...... cause you got nuttin'



OK Sherlock, ask any coach where the game is won and lost.
Its the line play that dictates what the offense can and can't do.



Your rude as hell.

ct
10-08-2007, 03:11 PM
OK Sherlock, ask any coach where the game is won and lost.
Its the line play that dictates what the offense can and can't do.



Your rude as hell.

ROFL

Henry...meet Laz.

This O-Line problem started before DV, and didn't start on the O-Line at all. DV was left with crap, so retooled the O thru FAs, and later became frantic to rebuild the defense in any way possible. Then our 2 HOFers hung em up, and presto, the floor has dropped out.

It's gonna take time. I too thought we would be adequate this year with DMac at LT and Welbourne at RG, and b/n Terry/Turley we'd be OK at RT. Has not worked, obviously. It's gonna take time. Maybe we'll have a whole new regime to get us there. Hey, that's bout all the hope I have left.

Count me in the group ready to give Rudy a shot at Center.

a1na2
10-08-2007, 04:33 PM
DV's draft failures are still hurting this franchise.



That's the problem in a nutshell.

DV was not a defensive coach, he had the tools for what he wanted to do. Roaf retiring was out of the blue. The other players are fugging professionals and should be able to do their job. DV can't be blamed for more than last year, if then.

The problem with the Chiefs is the fact that the HC (Hermit) has a zero in the IQ department when it comes to offense. We can't tell if Solari has any ability because the Hermit will not let him run a game plan outside of the basic run run pass punt. There has been a little variation in the plan but when you check the games out overall we are not a team that can run an offense. If we had Joe Montana and the O-line in their prime we would suck with the Hermit as HC.

Douche Baggins
10-08-2007, 04:37 PM
We can't tell if Solari has any ability because the Hermit will not let him run a game plan outside of the basic run run pass punt. .

Would people QUIT with this? For the last 10 quarters this team has been the OPPOSITE of run run pass punt.

TEX
10-08-2007, 04:38 PM
DV was not a defensive coach, he had the tools for what he wanted to do. Roaf retiring was out of the blue. The other players are fugging professionals and should be able to do their job. DV can't be blamed for more than last year, if then.

The problem with the Chiefs is the fact that the HC (Hermit) has a zero in the IQ department when it comes to offense. We can't tell if Solari has any ability because the Hermit will not let him run a game plan outside of the basic run run pass punt. There has been a little variation in the plan but when you check the games out overall we are not a team that can run an offense. If we had Joe Montana and the O-line in their prime we would suck with the Hermit as HC.

At least with DV there was a plan and a direction. I don't think Herm has either. The franchise is a bumbling mess. Usually you can say that it's not as bad as it seems. This time - it is.

a1na2
10-08-2007, 04:41 PM
Would people QUIT with this? For the last 10 quarters this team has been the OPPOSITE of run run pass punt.

It is apparent that you are not watching the games. Your man crush on Huard has you tied up in knots.

IF we had a QB there would be some down field passing. I saw Huard attempt one and it was as impressive as a wounded duck.

Huard sucks and the offense will suck as long as he is the QB.

If you were watching the game that the Chiefs took their first lead of the year they reverted to run run pass punt on the next two drives. In the second game they gained a lead in (again in the second half), their offense went to the run run pass punt.

The Hermit doesn't know how to put a game away, if it hadn't been for the play of the defense the Chiefs very well could have lost both of the games they won.

You need to get a grip on reality and forget your homerism. ( or homoism with Huard ).

a1na2
10-08-2007, 04:43 PM
At least with DV there was a plan and a direction. I don't think Herm has either. The franchise is a bumbling mess. Usually you can say that it's not as bad as it seems. This time - it is.

You are right. At least with DV there was always a chance that the offense was going to score more than the other team. With the Hermit we never know if the offense is even going to get a first down until the second half.

Douche Baggins
10-08-2007, 04:45 PM
It is apparent that you are not watching the games. Your man crush on Huard has you tied up in knots.


This is just wrong.

The last two games we've passed more than we've run on first down.

Would you like to try again?

a1na2
10-08-2007, 04:51 PM
This is just wrong.

The last two games we've passed more than we've run on first down.

Would you like to try again?

DUDE, 3 and out is 3 and out regardless of what you do.

Passing 3 yards when you need 10 for a first down is never the way to control a game.

You need to get Huard out of your head and realize that he sucks and is nothing more than an adequate backup at the best.

PunkinDrublic
10-08-2007, 04:52 PM
This is just wrong.

The last two games we've passed more than we've run on first down.

Would you like to try again?

We need an O-line that can run block. I'm glad to see our passing offense open up but we do need to run the ball effectively at some point. It was disgraceful seeing LJ not be able to get that first down on third and one.

Chief Henry
10-08-2007, 05:09 PM
This team can't run...Period. Our only hope is to pass to HOPEFULLY set up some run. Croyle can stretch the field, Huard can't. Hopefully Croyle and D.Bowe can find some success stretching the field, soon.

Douche Baggins
10-08-2007, 05:11 PM
This team can't run...Period.

Don't fret. It's going to improve.

We've faced Chicago, Minnesota, San Diego and Jacksonville in four consecutive weeks. Even Houston is now ranked in the top 10 in run D.

unothadeal
10-08-2007, 05:14 PM
Don't fret. It's going to improve.

We've faced Chicago, Minnesota, San Diego and Jacksonville in four consecutive weeks. Even Houston is now ranked in the top 10 in run D.
You should still get more than 10 rushing yards in one game

a1na2
10-08-2007, 05:55 PM
Don't fret. It's going to improve.

We've faced Chicago, Minnesota, San Diego and Jacksonville in four consecutive weeks. Even Houston is now ranked in the top 10 in run D.

10 yards rushing offense on Sunday. How can it not improve?

You have to be smoking some good stuff (probably horse turds after the horse ate some rope!)

penchief
10-08-2007, 06:15 PM
So drafting a kicker was a bigger need then an O-lineman? Look how easily bustlock was replaced.

I don't know. If you find a good kicker that's an immediate upgrade. Who doesn't think Colquitt was worth a third-round pick? I do.

If you miss on a kicker everybody is going to say that you picked him too high. But if you hit on a kicker you're going to get a bargain. Kickers have a big impact on the game.

So we missed on Medlock but we hit on Colquitt.

ChiefsCountry
10-08-2007, 06:38 PM
I don't know. If you find a good kicker that's an immediate upgrade. Who doesn't think Colquitt was worth a third-round pick? I do.

If you miss on a kicker everybody is going to say that you picked him too high. But if you hit on a kicker you're going to get a bargain. Kickers have a big impact on the game.

So we missed on Medlock but we hit on Colquitt.

I said that on draft day both years and got ripped for.

Honestly this year's draft wasnt very good lineman wise in our draft spots. 2nd round would have been questionable bc Ryan Kahil was there, now I wanted Marshal Yanda in the 3rd but Tank Tyler was a steal IMO, he was a first round talent IMO, that is good drafting in my book take the most talented player at your draft spot.