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View Full Version : Is there a Grownup on the Offensive Staff?


KCJohnny
10-08-2007, 03:13 PM
DV and Al Saunders had the O rolling. Those were career offense guys (at least DV became that in '99). Herm is a defense guy. Solari was an offensive line coach. That leaves Dick Curl (QBs) and Charlie Joiner (WRs).

Is there a bona fide O-guru on this staff? I remember things got so bad in NY that Herm hired Jimmy Raye as a "special offensive consultant" (or something of that nature).

It may be time to hire a grown up to do some quality assurance on the O. Let Solari focus on the OL which is really needy. Somebody suggested Dave Shula - who apparently worked with Brodie Croyle in Alabama. That's a long shot, I know. But when I look at the Chiefs' staff, I don't see anything like an 'expert'.

How long will Carl put up with his O ranked at the bottom of the league?

HemiEd
10-08-2007, 03:29 PM
I for one, don't think Carl or ownership will put up with too many more showings like yesterday.

Woodrow Call
10-08-2007, 03:30 PM
I for one, don't think Carl or ownership will put up with too many more showings like yesterday.

Me neither. Solari should hear the bus getting ready to back over him at any moment.

Douche Baggins
10-08-2007, 03:32 PM
I share your same viewpoint, KCJ.

http://chiefs.scout.com/2/681229.html

None of this is really surprising when you look at the current offensive braintrust in Kansas City. There’s offensive coordinator Mike Solari, who is in his second year at the position after a mediocre 2006 season. There’s quarterbacks coach Dick Curl, Shea’s replacement, whose claim to fame is leading the offensive attack of the now-defunct NFL Europe’s Barcelona Dragons for six years.

There’s no one on this staff with real credentials when it comes to planning during the week and calling an NFL offense on gameday. The Chiefs desperately need someone like current Broncos coach Mike Heimerdinger, whom Edwards hired to install a downfield passing offense during his last season in New York. They need a guru.

Douche Baggins
10-08-2007, 03:32 PM
I for one, don't think Carl or ownership will put up with too many more showings like yesterday.

And ownership in particular. Clark didn't sink hundreds of millions of dollars of his OWN MONEY into the stadium just to see it host a pathetic football team.

dirk digler
10-08-2007, 03:36 PM
Mike Heimerdinger LMAO

What a joke

Douche Baggins
10-08-2007, 03:38 PM
Mike Heimerdinger LMAO

What a joke

'Dinger is a solid offensive coach. More skins on the wall than Curl and Solari anyway.

dirk digler
10-08-2007, 03:40 PM
'Dinger is a solid offensive coach. More skins on the wall than Curl and Solari anyway.

That ain't saying much. He has done wonders for the Donkeys this year. :rolleyes:

Douche Baggins
10-08-2007, 03:43 PM
That ain't saying much. He has done wonders for the Donkeys this year. :rolleyes:

Actually Denver's passing offense, and offense in general, has been quite good this year. They are not scoring as many points due to red zone issues, which is more of a talent issue, and Cutler's inexperience. And Javon Walker has missed two games.

I would take 'Dinger in KC in a second as OC.

Deberg_1990
10-08-2007, 03:47 PM
Id take Norv Turner after hes let go at the end of the year...

HemiEd
10-08-2007, 03:47 PM
And ownership in particular. Clark didn't sink hundreds of millions of dollars of his OWN MONEY into the stadium just to see it host a pathetic football team.

Not selling out this week should send a strong message.

Hell, I am even considering playing golf Sunday morning. Until this year, that thought would have never even crossed my mind.

But, Brodie Croyle starting, gives me hope.

Deberg_1990
10-08-2007, 03:52 PM
Not selling out this week should send a strong message.

Hell, I am even considering playing golf Sunday morning. Until this year, that thought would have never even crossed my mind.

But, Brodie Croyle starting, gives me hope.


I no this isnt a popular opinion around here but we need one of those monumentally bad seasons like in the 80s' just to invoke some real change around Arrowhead. If nothing else to send a message to ownership. A half empty Arrowhead is probably the only way to do it.

Douche Baggins
10-08-2007, 03:54 PM
I no this isnt a popular opinion around here but we need one of those monumentally bad seasons like in the 80s' just to invoke some real change around Arrowhead. If nothing else to send a message to ownership. A half empty Arrowhead is probably the only way to do it.

Don't worry. We'll win the next two games and Arrowhead will be sold out after the bye...then Brett Favre will eviscerate us.

Zouk
10-08-2007, 03:56 PM
The fact that the QB coach gets blamed for a complete physical ass-kicking is bizarre.

Deberg_1990
10-08-2007, 03:57 PM
Don't worry. We'll win the next two games and Arrowhead will be sold out after the bye...then Brett Favre will eviscerate us.

Right on course for an 8-8 season!

Not bad enough for a total housecleaning. It fosters the thinking: "Hey, at least were not totally bad, just add a few more key pieces in the offseason"

Carl gets to keep his job.

wash, rinse, repeat for 18 years now...

Mr. Laz
10-08-2007, 03:58 PM
The fact that the QB coach gets blamed for a complete physical ass-kicking is bizarre.
that fact that you refuse to hold the coaching staff responsible is .....


well ... i don't know what it is, but it's not right. :harumph:

Deberg_1990
10-08-2007, 04:01 PM
The fact that the QB coach gets blamed for a complete physical ass-kicking is bizarre.

Yes it is...but according to Whitlock, the guy is some sort of backstabber/snitch to the rest of the offensive staff.

He doesnt have a very good reputation among Jets fans either. Hes some sort of loyal soldier/Herm spy. Something is definately going on there.

At least he appeared to want to start Croyle over Huard from Hard Knocks.

Zouk
10-08-2007, 04:01 PM
that fact that you refuse to hold the coaching staff responsible is .....


well ... i don't know what it is, but it's not right. :harumph:

The only one you could possibly blame is the O-line coach if the technique is not correct.

And the special teams coach is definitely not getting it done.

But I don't see a play-calling problem.

Douche Baggins
10-08-2007, 04:03 PM
Yes it is...but according to Whitlock, the guy is some sort of backstabber/snitch to the rest of the offensive staff.

He doesnt have a very good reputation among Jets fans either. Hes some sort of loyal soldier/Herm spy. Something is definately going on there.

At least he appeared to want to start Croyle over Huard from Hard Knocks.

I hear he wants to be head coach.

HemiEd
10-08-2007, 04:04 PM
I no this isnt a popular opinion around here but we need one of those monumentally bad seasons like in the 80s' just to invoke some real change around Arrowhead. If nothing else to send a message to ownership. A half empty Arrowhead is probably the only way to do it.

You make a good point, but the reason it isn't popular with me, is that I can't stand it when they are the laughing stock. I am sure nobody likes it.

I was not very proud after yesterdays game, we got abused.

To put up with a whole season of that again, just makes me sick thinking about it.

If the fans would only react sooner, without waiting for one of those seasons, maybe that would be a good compromise.

I was actually elated to see fans walking out early in the 4th yesterday, of course I sat glued to my chair until the last play. So I have no right asking other fans to boycott, unless I am willing.

Deberg_1990
10-08-2007, 04:07 PM
You make a good point, but the reason it isn't popular with me, is that I can't stand it when they are the laughing stock. I am sure nobody likes it.

I was not very proud after yesterdays game, we got abused.

To put up with a whole season of that again, just makes me sick thinking about it.

If the fans would only react sooner, without waiting for one of those seasons, maybe that would be a good compromise.

I was actually elated to see fans walking out early in the 4th yesterday, of course I sat glued to my chair until the last play. So I have no right asking other fans to boycott, unless I am willing.

Understood. Of course i dont want my team to be losers. It stinks.

But if thats the only way to get real change for the long haul...so be it.

I loved how the CBS cameras focused on those fans headed for the exits yesterday. You know that sent a message to directly to Clark. After yesterday, i expect to see a few more of those scenes this year.

tk13
10-08-2007, 04:08 PM
Right on course for an 8-8 season!

Not bad enough for a total housecleaning. It fosters the thinking: "Hey, at least were not totally bad, just add a few more key pieces in the offseason"

Carl gets to keep his job.

wash, rinse, repeat for 18 years now...
Well, after seeing things play out for 5 weeks... it obvious we have some huge flaws as a football team. The problem is, the rest of the AFC sucks too. The AFC South is really good... then the Pats of course, and looks like possibly the Steelers too. That's 6 teams if you include the Texans (who almost lost to the Dolphins). That's it.

Everybody else, sucks. I do not want to tank the season, I think that's dumb... but even if we tried, I think it would be difficult. The other three teams in the AFC East... Jets/Bills/Dolphins, are not very good right now. The other three teams in the North... Ravens/Bengals/Browns have all looked really bad at times... and the entire AFC West has looked awful at times. The Chargers have a lot of talent but Norv doesn't always seem to get the best out of his teams.

I think the Chiefs are right in there with the "rest" of the AFC. Maybe we'll flop, but we at least have a top 10-15 defense to keep us in games... it's not like a couple years ago most of the AFC was great and 10-6 wouldn't even get you in. I think the Chiefs could end up in the top 5-6 teams in the AFC, and earn it. They could finish last too, I think it's all jumbled really.

FringeNC
10-08-2007, 04:08 PM
I'd like to see what Solari could do if he had free reign. Solari wanted to run Saunder's offense last year, but Herm quickly put an end to that.

Carl needs to tell Herm that Solari has complete control, and that neither Herm nor his snitch Dick Curl has any input in play-calling.

tk13
10-08-2007, 04:11 PM
I'd like to see what Solari could do if he had free reign. Solari wanted to run Saunder's offense last year, but Herm quickly put an end to that.

Carl needs to tell Herm that Solari has complete control, and that neither Herm nor his snitch Dick Curl has any input in play-calling.
I don't think Carl liked Saunders, or his offense. He always said backhanded things about it, even after he left. Not to mention the 8 billion articles we've seen on the official website about our former "circus offense".

KCJohnny
10-08-2007, 04:11 PM
The only one you could possibly blame is the O-line coach if the technique is not correct.

And the special teams coach is definitely not getting it done.

But I don't see a play-calling problem.

The play-calling improved in the 2nd half of the SD game. The OL on the other hand continues to slide downhill. It's very, very bad. Like I said, Herm brought in Jimmy Raye to help in NY. So there's a precedent for phoning a friend or using a lifeline.

HemiEd
10-08-2007, 04:13 PM
Understood. Of course i dont want my team to be losers. It stinks.

But if thats the only way to get real change for the long haul...so be it.

I loved how the CBS cameras focused on those fans headed for the exits yesterday. You know that sent a message to directly to Clark. After yesterday, i expect to see a few more of those scenes this year.

They did make a real point of showing how many people were leaving and had left, we needed that.

I am kind of anxious to hear Herm's spin on it tomorrow and who gets thrown under the bus.

I can't help but feel ownership/Carl have an ear to the ground due to the Eileen Wier article last week. For some reason, I think Parker's and other Planteer's frustration may have made it back to her.

Skip Towne
10-08-2007, 04:14 PM
I wonder how much declining revenue it will take to get Clark to make changes. Even though the TV station bought up the remaining tickets I'm pretty sure they didn't pay for parking or buy concessions and merchandise.

Douche Baggins
10-08-2007, 04:15 PM
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/9725/curlld0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Deberg_1990
10-08-2007, 04:16 PM
Well, after seeing things play out for 5 weeks... it obvious we have some huge flaws as a football team. The problem is, the rest of the AFC sucks too. The AFC South is really good... then the Pats of course, and looks like possibly the Steelers too. That's 6 teams if you include the Texans (who almost lost to the Dolphins). That's it.

Everybody else, sucks. I do not want to tank the season, I think that's dumb... but even if we tried, I think it would be difficult. The other three teams in the AFC East... Jets/Bills/Dolphins, are not very good right now. The other three teams in the North... Ravens/Bengals/Browns have all looked really bad at times... and the entire AFC West has looked awful at times. The Chargers have a lot of talent but Norv doesn't always seem to get the best out of his teams.

I think the Chiefs are right in there with the "rest" of the AFC. Maybe we'll flop, but we at least have a top 10-15 defense to keep us in games... it's not like a couple years ago most of the AFC was great and 10-6 wouldn't even get you in. I think the Chiefs could end up in the top 5-6 teams in the AFC, and earn it. They could finish last too, I think it's all jumbled really.

God bless you TK, your always so optimistic.... :)

But you really think this team is going to beat another team in January??

Ill even say right now, i think we lose to Cinci next week. But hey, its just my opinion. After yesterday, i think things are headed downhill real quick all on their own....

But at least we finally get to see if Croyle has what it takes...so things are not all bad.

tk13
10-08-2007, 04:19 PM
God bless you TK, your always so optimistic.... :)

But you really think this team is going to beat another team in January??

Ill even say right now, i think we lose to Cinci next week. But hey, its just my opinion. After yesterday, i think things are headed downhill real quick all on their own....

But at least we finally get to see if Croyle has what it takes...so things are not all bad.
Ehhh, I don't know about winning a game in January, but I'd like to get there. Especially if Croyle is at QB. Not to mention all our other young guys like Bowe, etc. It'd be a positive experience. I don't think it's about being optimistic. The AFC West sucks. If we can go get a 4 seed and a playoff home game for these guys, there's no reason we shouldn't go get it.

Zouk
10-08-2007, 04:22 PM
As Keitzmann said on radio today - the only way this gets solved is with an infusion of talent. There's no way anyone can look at our talent on offense (particularly with Kennison out) and say that we should be a double-digit win team. Certainly no one in the national media did before the start of the year.

The defense was a disaster 2 years ago, but now all those deadweights are gone and the situation has been stabilized. With the addition of a corner in the offseason, that unit is good enough. Now we need all 3 first day picks and a free agent addition or two on offense next year. Everything can't be done in 1 offseason.

If we're not a deep into January caliber team by 2009, then the coaching staff must change.

Douche Baggins
10-08-2007, 04:23 PM
If we're not a deep into January caliber team by 2009, then the coaching staff must change.

I agree.

FringeNC
10-08-2007, 04:24 PM
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/9725/curlld0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I don't have a problem so much with his face as I do his brain and name...and the fact the players want to bash the shit of him.

Zouk
10-08-2007, 04:27 PM
I agree.

Then you should relax a little and be more patient after losses in 2007. And stop thinking Dick Curl has evil magical powers. You should look a little more at your boy LJ. That's my biggest worry about the Chiefs right now.

Douche Baggins
10-08-2007, 04:29 PM
Then you should relax a little and be more patient after losses in 2007.

I think I've been the model citizen where patience is concerned. I'm the anti-chicken-little.

Zouk
10-08-2007, 04:32 PM
I think I've been the model citizen where patience is concerned. I'm the anti-chicken-little.


I was referring to this post below, which I interpreted as implying that Clark Hunt should fire everyone tomorrow and we should all burn our season tickets if he doesn't. I may have over-interpreted it though,


And ownership in particular. Clark didn't sink hundreds of millions of dollars of his OWN MONEY into the stadium just to see it host a pathetic football team.

TEX
10-08-2007, 04:50 PM
DV and Al Saunders had the O rolling. Those were career offense guys (at least DV became that in '99). Herm is a defense guy. Solari was an offensive line coach. That leaves Dick Curl (QBs) and Charlie Joiner (WRs).

Is there a bona fide O-guru on this staff? I remember things got so bad in NY that Herm hired Jimmy Raye as a "special offensive consultant" (or something of that nature).

It may be time to hire a grown up to do some quality assurance on the O. Let Solari focus on the OL which is really needy. Somebody suggested Dave Shula - who apparently worked with Brodie Croyle in Alabama. That's a long shot, I know. But when I look at the Chiefs' staff, I don't see anything like an 'expert'.

How long will Carl put up with his O ranked at the bottom of the league?


Yep. He hired Raye to help Hackett.
Croyle has no chance with this band of idiots. :shake:
BTW, how many OC's has Herm had? :hmmm:

Zouk
10-08-2007, 04:56 PM
Yep. He hired Raye to help Hackett.
Croyle has no chance with this band of idiots. :shake:
BTW, how many OC's has Herm had? :hmmm:

Three:

Paul Hackett for 4 years.

Heimerdinger for 1 year (then Herm left, he didn't "throw him under the bus")

Solari for 2 years.

He's fired 1 offensive coordinator in 6 years.

KCJohnny
10-08-2007, 05:14 PM
Three:

Paul Hackett for 4 years.

Heimerdinger for 1 year (then Herm left, he didn't "throw him under the bus")

Solari for 2 years.

He's fired 1 offensive coordinator in 6 years.
Hackett ran the WCO here with 49ers QBs. Raye was Gun's OC. Solari makes both of them look like Mike Martz. All I was saying is that (a) there's no O-guru here and (b) Herm's hired an offense consultant before.

Q: How come what is happening to LJ never happened to Curtis Martin? You talk about a guy that everyone knew was getting the ball! Still, Martin slashed defenses for a decade, even under Herm.

Tribal Warfare
10-08-2007, 05:22 PM
I don't have a problem so much with his face as I do his brain and name...and the fact the players want to bash the shit of him.


he'll get kicked back to clock management assistant after this season

Mr. Laz
10-08-2007, 05:33 PM
If we're not a deep into January caliber team by 2009, then the coaching staff must change.

i see ..... so by the time it's TOO LATE you will be ready to hold the coaching staff responsible.


Carl loves you CeePee

Douche Baggins
10-08-2007, 05:34 PM
i see ..... so by the time it's TOO LATE you will be ready to hold the coaching staff responsible.


Carl loves you CeePee

Too late for what?

Mr. Laz
10-08-2007, 05:38 PM
Too late for what?
too late to salvage another wasted 5 years of poor Chiefs football.



wait until next year ..... wait until next year ...... wait until 2009 :eek:



That's seriously ****ed up

JohnnyV13
10-08-2007, 05:49 PM
And ownership in particular. Clark didn't sink hundreds of millions of dollars of his OWN MONEY into the stadium just to see it host a pathetic football team.


It wasn't ALL clark's money. Clarks isn't the owner, he's the chairman. He owns the team with his 2 brothers and sister. He's just the Hunt that runs the team.

Zouk
10-08-2007, 05:50 PM
Q: How come what is happening to LJ never happened to Curtis Martin? You talk about a guy that everyone knew was getting the ball! Still, Martin slashed defenses for a decade, even under Herm.

Because coaching is not the problem. The problem is physical in terms of blocking. Also Curtis Martin never turned into a cry-baby sulker when the going got tough, and never asked his coaches not to give him the ball if the D was in an 8 man front.

Douche Baggins
10-08-2007, 05:50 PM
It wasn't ALL clark's money. Clarks isn't the owner, he's the chairman. He owns the team with his 2 brothers and sister. He's just the Hunt that runs the team.

It's his family's money. Same thing.

Zouk
10-08-2007, 05:51 PM
i see ..... so by the time it's TOO LATE you will be ready to hold the coaching staff responsible.


Carl loves you CeePee

I'd rather Carl be out of the picture. I'm a Herm fan, not a Carl fan. I think Herm inherited a terrible roster.

Mr. Laz
10-08-2007, 05:52 PM
It's his family's money. Same thing.
it's OUR money ...... he's been playing on the KC dime for years.

hell, he's been funding his soccer team on KC chiefs fan's dime for years.

Mr. Laz
10-08-2007, 05:55 PM
I'd rather Carl be out of the picture. I'm a Herm fan, not a Carl fan. I think Herm inherited a terrible roster.
i see .......

i've been a Chiefs fan too long and been through to many coaches to have any faith left.

i see a young marty shottenhiemer ..... before marty realized how stupid his offensive philoshophy was.

KCJohnny
10-08-2007, 05:57 PM
Because coaching is not the problem. The problem is physical in terms of blocking. Also Curtis Martin never turned into a cry-baby sulker when the going got tough, and never asked his coaches not to give him the ball if the D was in an 8 man front.

Interesting contrast. Curtis Martin was definitley more mature. I heard Priest say that defenses are putting a spy on LJ. You KNOW that had to happen to the NYJs with Martin. There MUST be a way to beat it. I agree, this OL is awful on runnng plays, I was just wondering how herm got around the same issue with Martin.

LOCOChief
10-08-2007, 06:02 PM
I no this isnt a popular opinion around here but we need one of those monumentally bad seasons like in the 80s' just to invoke some real change around Arrowhead. If nothing else to send a message to ownership. A half empty Arrowhead is probably the only way to do it.

I'm sure you remember those days as I do, so it is with that in mind that I have to ask, are you fuggin serious? The 80's lasted forever and ever and ever and so on. That would be a really bad experiment IMO

KCJohnny
10-08-2007, 06:39 PM
I would hope that this O can adjust to the personnel that they have. The 2000 Chiefs lost their RB on day 1 and had to feature T-Rich who actually finished the season ranked #2 in yards-per-touch for all NFL RBs (Tiki Barber was #1). Gun went to a pass/pass/pass O that set some passing/scoring records at the time. In '99, all Gun wanted to do was he called "Maulball" - plow his RBbC inside and go over the top on play-action. By week 3, he made the adjustments and the chiefs actually scored 54 points in a game and had another where Grbac threw for 504 yards.

Hopefully Herm and his staff that has zero offense experts will analyze his talent and adjust the playbook.

Deberg_1990
10-08-2007, 07:20 PM
I'm sure you remember those days as I do, so it is with that in mind that I have to ask, are you fuggin serious? The 80's lasted forever and ever and ever and so on. That would be a really bad experiment IMO


I want change. I see a half empty Arrowhead as the fastest way to get change.

KCJohnny
10-08-2007, 10:09 PM
I want change. I see a half empty Arrowhead as the fastest way to get change.

If you want change, that begins with crafting a team identity around the players you DO have and not the scheme you insist on.