What is your opinion of this forum's impact?

[banyon]

Poll forthcoming.

[chagrin]

I hope you don't mean to insinuate that this forum generates any change on this Earth whatsoever, do you?

[SBK]

The equivalent of pissing in the wind.....

[BucEyedPea]

Eer it's become an addiction.

[banyon]

I hope you don't mean to insinuate that this forum generates any change on this Earth whatsoever, do you?

I included poll options for you too, bro! ROFL

[chagrin]

I see, you mean how has it impacted each individual who posts here - fair enough.

[banyon]

I see, you mean how has it impacted each individual who posts here - fair enough.

I'm just kind of curious. People are pretty dedicated to posting, but sometimes the people who post a bunch also bash the place it's kind of an odd phenomenon.

[banyon]

patteeu why did you do a JBucc vote?

[JBucc]

JBucc didn't even do a JBucc vote.

[patteeu]

I voted for:

* Better informed - one of my favorite things about this place are the articles and links that people post that I wouldn't have otherwise seen. I'm not all that interested in hearing Josh Marshall's every waking thought, but otherwise this applies to both items that I agree with and items that I disagree with.

* Made me better at articulating my positions - I think this is the case some of the time although I'm sure it's not always apparent and there's plenty of room for improvement.

* Changed my mind on at least one issue - I'm sure there's been at least one but I have trouble identifying a specific example. In general, I think I've grown more pragmatic and less ideological from a libertarian point of view.

* People are set in their ways, but it's entertaining - Self explanatory.

* Place has made me bitter toward those I disagree with - In some cases, this is certainly true. I find a very small number of people here annoying.

* Place has made me less bitter toward those I disagree - There are many people here who I can disagree with and still enjoy.

* Place has had no impact on my desire to participate in politics - I presume this means outside this forum. I'm not super active, but I've been somewhat active in real life politics before this message board and my activity level hasn't changed.

[patteeu]

patteeu why did you do a JBucc vote?

What's a JBucc vote?

[Silock]

I voted other.

Most people are set in their beliefs. That's fine. I don't care if you have a different opinion than I do. But most of the arguments around here are just recycled. You could copy and paste most of the positions from people in here from one thread into another and it wouldn't seem out of place.

To me, there's a difference between having a discussion where people are open to changing their minds and arguing back and forth over something about which people are completely unwilling to even see the other perspective.

It's like the difference between reading a peer-reviewed article and a hack job op-ed piece in a newspaper or magazine. One at least makes an attempt to give credence to opposing values, while the other is content to just present one-side and has no pretense of even trying to look at things from another side.

[a1na2]

I was going to vote all of them, but I figured that banyon would start crying if I did, so I voted my heart.

[go bowe]

The equivalent of pissing in the wind.....no, no, no...

it's spitting into the wind and pissing up a rope (which is a spectacular display of mind over gravity)...

:D :D :D

[banyon]

What's a JBucc vote?

He usually votes for every choice in a multiple choice poll to be "ironic".

[banyon]

I'm pretty proud of this poll, but please explain your position everyone. :thumb:

[jAZ]

1) Made more far more effective at articulating my position and slicing away the BS of others'. :)

2) More informed, both through being compelled to research my own positions more effectively and through learning what others of different views are thinking.

3) My Other: The Iowanian-type venom, personal attacks, and general hatred for those who disagree on anything (this is rooted in the mod policy here and isn't even remotely an attribute of just the DC or a partisan thing... it's as much in the lounge) has jaded me and at times, made me less patient with others both on and off line.

[jAZ]

Changed position... I don't know if it's attributed to this board, as much as through observation over time on my own... but I used to STRONGLY object to the border "minute men" crowd hanging out on the border... but they have been far less troublesome than I was expecting... While I still know that much of the beliefs of the anti-immigrant crowd in general is fueled by racism, it's not all (or even a majority). But the minute men have done a good job of doing what they do without causing all of the trouble I was expecting.

I know there are better examples of this question... and I know that some have changed my mind or proved me wrong and I've conceded. But I'm not sure of a different example.

[banyon]

Changed position... I don't know if it's attributed to this board, as much as through observation over time on my own... but I used to STRONGLY object to the border "minute men" crowd hanging out on the border... but they have been far less troublesome than I was expecting... While I still know that much of the beliefs of the anti-immigrant crowd in general is fueled by racism, it's not all (or even a majority). But the minute men have done a good job of doing what they do without causing all of the trouble I was expecting.

I know there are better examples of this question... and I know that some have changed my mind or proved me wrong and I've conceded. But I'm not sure of a different example.

thanks jAZ, i knew that was exactly the type of impact that people had been exposed to. :thumb:

[Jenson71]

I have re-thought my opinions so many times because of discussions on here, I don't know where to start. I am completely ignorant on so many issues. I owe many people who post in this forum very much for my takes on politics and other social issues, or parts of them. I also owe this forum for fueling my political interest, leading me to major in Political Science.

I love the intellectual discussion. Religion, politics, history. All are covered in this D.C. This forum is an absolute good in my view.

[frazod]

The hellhole/never post option comes closet to my opinion, although I post rarely rather than never.

The main thing this forum does, however, is save the rest of the BB from being overrun by devisive, annoying political bullshit. It's like putting in an enclosed, ventilated bathroom in a place where people used to just crap wherever they felt like it.

God bless DC! :thumb:

[Mr Luzcious]

It has definitely made me better informed, and while it certainly seems like everyone is set in their ways (see Silock's post.. very true), it doesn't seem to be as much the case as I had thought. Based on the poll results.

[ClevelandBronco]

My "other": I have a half dozen or so pain-in-the-ass atheists on ignore. That's unfortunate because they might have some pretty good football opinions.

[SBK]

I forgot to add that the forum has made us all huge Ron Paul addicts.

[SBK]

While I still know that much of the beliefs of the anti-immigrant crowd in general is fueled by racism, it's not all (or even a majority). But the minute men have done a good job of doing what they do without causing all of the trouble I was expecting.



I've never understood why folks think that people that want to protect our borders are called racists. Are Mexicans that are here legally but want our borders to be protected racist?

The one thing I can say that this forum has really opened my eyes to is how there is no debate in politics anymore. Someone that has another idea is simply a racist, bigot, homophobe or whatever else fits that discredits whatever it is that was said. There is no debate, no discussion, just a simple castration of the person saying their point of view--most times before the entire post has been read.

That's why posting here is like pissing into the wind. I wish I could tell you why I even post here once in a while.....

[JBucc]

I want with th eone where your's a bunch of hellholes.

[patteeu]

He usually votes for every choice in a multiple choice poll to be "ironic".

Oh OK. By now you've probably realized that I didn't do that.

[a1na2]

banyon has pimped this poll only to see the one response that was put by one of the posters. One vote by one person is all he was looking for.

I feel there is no way the speculation about politicians and politics on this forum has changed anyone's mind about anything in politics. At an extreme, the only think that could possibly have happened is that a response from this board might have caused someone to research credible sources to review his or her position.

Face it, there are no credible sources of any political topic that has ever be written first hand by anyone here, only replies to other stories that have come from other sites that are biased in one direction or another.

I think it is humorous to see the shit storm that is usually stirred up and the resulting name calling that tends to always follow.

[scott free]

All of the constant bickering & in-depth arguments, filled with REEMS of material that must have took a lot of time to dig up...yet only NINE people have changed their minds about something...what a joke.

Its good to know that so many people feel their positions are COMPLETELY unassailable.

Pointless.

[patteeu]

All of the constant bickering & in-depth arguments, filled with REEMS of material that must have took a lot of time to dig up...yet only NINE people have changed their minds about something...what a joke.

Its good to know that so many people feel their positions are COMPLETELY unassailable.

Pointless.

That's 9 out of 21 respondents and if you remove the two who say they never (or almost never) post here, it's 9 out of 19. I think you're just seeing what you want to see (or more accurately, not seeing what you don't want to see).

But as some of banyon's insightful poll options suggest, it's not all about changing other people's minds. Participating in this forum to become better informed or to improve the understanding of our own positions as well as improving the ability to articulate them are valuable to some of us as well.

[oldandslow]

I am in the better informed and changed mind about one issue camp.

I truly enjoy reading postings from folks like Patteeu and BEP even though we tend to disagree on a variety of things. Kotter is also interesting, albeit his definition of a conservative dem needs reworking. And I get Rudy's talking points every morning. Thanks Jake.

On the other side of the aisle, Tiptap's posts on global warming are excellent. Jaz does a great job presenting the dems talking points and every time I despair about Obama's chances, Ultra Peanut comes along and tells me its not over - (I still think it is tho.)

The one area where I have evolved from reading the planet is that I have grown even more green than I was before. I wish there were more "crunchy conservatives" on board. I think there are areas where cons and libs can work together on this issue, but it doesn't seem to happen very often.

For example, I think conservatives and greens could agree that ending farm subsidies would be a good thing -for both the environment and the budget. It doesn't seem that we talk about it, however.

[BucEyedPea]

I changed my mind on one issue but not on this board.
I think I understand the thinking of opposing views more though. I definitely feel pressure to get more involved, but that came about when I hear the NC's on this board....the biggest factor that caused me to vote Dem in the last election out of fear of NCs. Thank you patty! You, and a few others, not just here, are an inspiration. Call it unintended consequences or blowback. :p

[banyon]

Oh OK. By now you've probably realized that I didn't do that.

Yes, I'm no longer buzzed on wine.

[Sully]

I can't think of something specific I've changed my mind on due to this forum, but I can see how it's possible, I try to always have an open mind to new ideas.

As far as becoming bitter toward those I disagree with, I don't think that's happened in an overall sense, but there are particular posters on this board that I gave the benefit of the doubt for close to a year, due to their apparent education and honesty... but finally decided they are just dicks.

[patteeu]

I changed my mind on one issue but not on this board.
I think I understand the thinking of opposing views more though. I definitely feel pressure to get more involved, but that came about when I hear the NC's on this board....the biggest factor that caused me to vote Dem in the last election out of fear of NCs. Thank you patty! You, and a few others, not just here, are an inspiration. Call it unintended consequences or blowback. :p

When Hillary starts nominating SCOTUS Justices from liberal activist pools like the 9th Circuit, you'll get your blowback. 20 more years of the Constitution as a living document, brought to you by the number 44, the letters A, C, L, and U, and the resolve toward ideological purity of BucEyedPea. :)

[jAZ]

I've never understood why folks think that people that want to protect our borders are called racists. Are Mexicans that are here legally but want our borders to be protected racist?

The one thing I can say that this forum has really opened my eyes to is how there is no debate in politics anymore. Someone that has another idea is simply a racist, bigot, homophobe or whatever else fits that discredits whatever it is that was said. There is no debate, no discussion, just a simple castration of the person saying their point of view--most times before the entire post has been read.

That's why posting here is like pissing into the wind. I wish I could tell you why I even post here once in a while.....
I guess you pretty well missed the ENTIRE point of that post.

[jAZ]

I've never understood why folks think that people that want to protect our borders are called racists. Are Mexicans that are here legally but want our borders to be protected racist?

The one thing I can say that this forum has really opened my eyes to is how there is no debate in politics anymore. Someone that has another idea is simply a racist, bigot, homophobe or whatever else fits that discredits whatever it is that was said. There is no debate, no discussion, just a simple castration of the person saying their point of view--most times before the entire post has been read.

That's why posting here is like pissing into the wind. I wish I could tell you why I even post here once in a while.....
I guess you pretty well missed the ENTIRE point of that post.

[Iowanian]

It serves a great purpose...Keeping most of the nutjobs in a closet away from normal people.

[memyselfI]

DC has certainly convinced me that there are more folks on the other end of the political spectrum that resemble Logical than there are Patt. I believed it to be the other way around.

It also serves to reinforce my own views. When certain folks vehemently attack the messenger vs. the message it speaks loud and clear about the threat your words and views pose to them and their world.

[patteeu]

DC has certainly convinced me that there are more folks on the other end of the political spectrum that resemble Logical than there are Patt.

You may have put your finger on a key flaw in the makeup of our country.

[Adept Havelock]

You may have put your finger on a key flaw in the makeup of our country.


Yep, even with the number of Dr. Dooms, we still have too many patteeus.

Oh well, the Iraq misadventure still needs it's Professor Pangloss. :p

[patteeu]

Yep, even with the number of Dr. Dooms, we still have too many patteeus.

:LOL:

[Hydrae]

I have learned a lot here in the DC forum and I thank every one of you for that. It has given me a crucible to more completely define how I stand on issues while also opening me up to new ideas. While I don't post over here a lot I do lurk and read pretty much on a daily basis. Heck, this place is a major news source for me.

[BucEyedPea]

When Hillary starts nominating SCOTUS Justices from liberal activist pools like the 9th Circuit, you'll get your blowback. 20 more years of the Constitution as a living document, brought to you by the number 44, the letters A, C, L, and U, and the resolve toward ideological purity of BucEyedPea. :)
Well I lived with it my whole life either as a majority or divided. It won't hurt now. At least I'll be alive which comes first. Ya' know life, liberty in that order. That's called being pragmatic as opposed to the ideal. At the level of ideas I can be pure....but I can compromise it's a matter or choices. At least I kept my own personal integrity. Imagine what this country would look like if we voted our consciences.

[patteeu]

Well I lived with it my whole life either as a majority or divided. It won't hurt now. At least I'll be alive which comes first. Ya' know life, liberty in that order. That's called being pragmatic as opposed to the ideal. At the level of ideas I can be pure....but I can compromise it's a matter or choices. At least I kept my own personal integrity. Imagine what this country would look like if we voted our consciences.

The single biggest tool that impacts the level of government in this country has been the SCOTUS, as you are surely aware. When one of the Four Horsemen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_(Supreme_Court)) of the pre-New Deal Court finally retired and was replaced by a more "modern" thinking justice in Hugo Black (along with the switch of allegiance of one of the justices who'd often sided with the Four Horsemen), one of the last major restraints on government expansion fell. After that, the court "revised it's understanding" of the Commerce Clause to justify almost any federal legislation that tickled Congress's fancy. The rest (of the creeping socialism that we've experienced since) has been history.

After nearly 6 decades, under a court that had been injected with a new strain of conservative Justices, thanks to the Reagan and Bush administrations, the Court finally found a law that they thought ran afoul of the Commerce Clause (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Lopez).

Whatever you think of George W. Bush, he *appears* to have put us into position to finally, after 70 years, reclaim the court and the concept of truly limited government. 70 years is a long time. If the democrats get to rejuvenate the Stevens and Ginsberg seats with younger liberals, the next time an opportunity comes to push the court off of it's current "balance" it will be the democrats opportunity to move the court back into solidly liberal territory. It will literally be another decade or two before conservatives even have a chance to return the court to it's current "balance". Who knows how much longer than that before we again have the same opportunity that is facing us today. And by "balance", I mean a Court that is nominally in ideological balance, but in fact ends up being a net loser for fans of limited government over the long run.

Too much is at stake to cavalierly say that you've lived with it your whole life so more won't hurt now. I'm not suggesting that you should abandon Ron Paul's campaign. I'm suggesting that you, Paul, social conservatives and anyone else who is serious about wanting limited government should vote for the ultimate Republican nominee even if you have major differences with that candidate, just as I plan to do if Ron Paul were to win the nomination.

[StcChief]

If Ron Paul would win the GOP. He's may man vs. sHillary.

otherwise I can't vote for him or any other conservative as 3rd party... to split it for a sure sHillary win.

wasted that on Anderson in 80 never ever again.

[Taco John]

You might get the opportunity to vote for a neocon as a third party candidate. But by the time next September rolls around, a neocon isn't going to have enough support from the base to get the nomination.*



* - unless an attack gets through our defenses.

[SBK]

I guess you pretty well missed the ENTIRE point of that post.

Quoted me twice, nice. And I didn't miss it, I was just trying to start a flame war in what's supposed to be a friendly thread.
:p

[BucEyedPea]

I'm still nominating Paul pat, EXACTLY because too much is at stake. Just like Dobson said, a GOP loss if there's no Paul nomination is better for re-energizing the core beliefs of the party and kicking the 1960's street radicals,Trotskyites and RINO's out. Can always take certain cases out of the SC's hands that aren't their jurisdiction via congress.

[patteeu]

I'm still nominating Paul pat, EXACTLY because too much is at stake. Just like Dobson said, a GOP loss if there's no Paul nomination is better for re-energizing the core beliefs of the party and kicking the 1960's street radicals,Trotskyites and RINO's out. Can always take certain cases out of the SC's hands that aren't their jurisdiction via congress.

That's pretty delusional, IMO, because it's been even longer since the forces of limited government have controlled Congress than it has since they've controlled the SCOTUS.

Dobson has a better argument because he's not nearly as worried about limited government as he is about abortion and other social issues. Helping to elect a pro-choice democrat who advocates so-called gay rights may well energize the social conservatives. OTOH, his cause will be just as damaged at the SCOTUS level so he's cutting off his nose to spite his face too.

[BucEyedPea]

Well, that's the way it is, delusional or not. Actually, I think yourview is more delusional regarding the WoT....which is the crux of it for me. I've always said he's my favorite man in the govt. So it's a once in a lifetime chance for me. I won't squander it. You should just nominate Paul and come over to my side and get the whole package.

[a1na2]

DC has certainly convinced me that there are more folks on the other end of the political spectrum that resemble Logical than there are Patt. I believed it to be the other way around.

It also serves to reinforce my own views. When certain folks vehemently attack the messenger vs. the message it speaks loud and clear about the threat your words and views pose to them and their world.

What you have found is that there are more far left wing liberals that post on this particular board. You can't judge the country by one little bulletin board.

When people attack your points it's because you are always spouting garbage, nothing more and nothing less.

[scott free]

you are always spouting garbage, nothing more and nothing less.

This is a case study in the My Way or the Highway, Black & White language of the DC forum.

Very Christian of you.

[a1na2]

This is a case study in the My Way or the Highway, Black & White language of the DC forum.

Very Christian of you.

This has nothing to do with Christianity, it has to do with her very forward hatred of the government of this country.

Why do you feel that I have to give her a break for hating the country that I defended for a good portion of my life? We may not be perfect but we are the best game on the earth. If not the best place on the earth your girlfriend might be in jail or worse for her commentary.

[patteeu]

Well, that's the way it is, delusional or not. Actually, I think yourview is more delusional regarding the WoT....which is the crux of it for me. I've always said he's my favorite man in the govt. So it's a once in a lifetime chance for me. I won't squander it. You should just nominate Paul and come over to my side and get the whole package.

I prefer that my package not be wrapped in a white flag. :p

[scott free]

This has nothing to do with Christianity, it has to do with her very forward hatred of the government of this country.

Why do you feel that I have to give her a break for hating the country that I defended for a good portion of my life? We may not be perfect but we are the best game on the earth. If not the best place on the earth your girlfriend might be in jail or worse for her commentary.

I dont defend most of her stances, i do defend her right to spell them out though.

I've seen you make a lot of strongly pro-Christian statements that i always applaud & just dont think that kind of post represents it very well...not that i'm some angel by any stretch.

IMO, your confusing her disdain for this administration with disdain for America...i cant stand these friggin guys either & any number of respected Reps have broken ranks with them on a variety of issues to.

We sure as hell ARE the best game around...because everyone is entitled to believe as they wish.

[a1na2]

I dont defend most of her stances, i do defend her right to spell them out though.

I've seen you make a lot of strongly pro-Christian statements that i always applaud & just dont think that kind of post represents it very well...not that i'm some angel by any stretch.

IMO, your confusing her disdain for this administration with disdain for America...i cant stand these friggin guys either & any number of respected Reps have broken ranks with them on a variety of issues to.

We sure as hell ARE the best game around...because everyone is entitled to believe as they wish.

So you are a proponent that we need to listen and adhere to her beliefs, eh?

She is a supporter of Iran. How does that sit with you? She is a supporter of the terrorists attacks against and holds that Bush was the reason. Bush was in office a mere few months when the attack occurred and she has yet to understand the planning for 9/11 started in 1994.

[BucEyedPea]

Pat,
The package I'm talkin' 'bout won't be wrapped in a white flag if we just go after AQ! Nope! That one is winnable too. If ya' want social engineering and nation building...well then I can't help you there. I can only say, there is nothing to win there.

BTW, I wanted to get back with you on an earlier comment, that came up in another thread awhile back....regarding the claim that Bolton nixed the Fair Tax in the Bush administration. I bumped into that FT guy again, who is no longer ED btw but still involved...and you were right....it was Josh Bolton. ( I assumed since only last names were originally used he knew who I meant as I didn't know there were two.) But JB nixed the Fair Tax because he wanted social security to get the focus as more important per him when he became CofS.

As for the Edwards statement, he clarified that Edwards was for the Nat'l Sales and Retail tax, which I took as the same thing as the FT but apparently is not. I never heard of a separate one going around anyhow. He said Edwards supported that plus all the other taxes he stumps for as well.

[BucEyedPea]

a1na2,
What would Christ do?

[a1na2]

a1na2,
What would Christ do?

He forgives me for being an ass.

What do you think he would do?

[scott free]

So you are a proponent that we need to listen and adhere to her beliefs, eh?

She is a supporter of Iran. How does that sit with you? She is a supporter of the terrorists attacks against and holds that Bush was the reason. Bush was in office a mere few months when the attack occurred and she has yet to understand the planning for 9/11 started in 1994.

I never said you had to adhere to her beliefs.

I dont come around here very often, so i'm not aware of all of her thoughts & of course support for the Iranian GOVERNMENT doesnt sit well with me...but should we squelch her & anyone else who doesnt toe the line???...where will that lead???

At any rate, i was just making a point about the virulent hostility of DC & how it doesnt jibe with Christianity.

Carry on.

[BucEyedPea]

He forgives me for being an ass.

What do you think he would do?
He would not do as you do.
He'd most likely forgive both of you as well. Not that that her politics would be considered a sin to Him anyways.

[a1na2]

I never said you had to adhere to her beliefs.

I dont come around here very often, so i'm not aware of all of her thoughts & of course support for the Iranian GOVERNMENT doesnt sit well with me...but should we squelch her & anyone else who doesnt toe the line???...where will that lead???

At any rate, i was just making a point about the virulent hostility of DC & how it doesnt jibe with Christianity.

Carry on.

Anything related to politics don't jibe with Christianity. Politics is full of dishonesty in both parties. If there is an honest politician they won't be for long.

Nobody is squelching denise, some of us just don't want to hear here continual attacks on the U.S. Don't get me wrong, she has the freedom to do so, many of the members here have served time to ensure that as have millions before us and countless millions after us. As long as that freedom exists people like her can spread her venom at will. But again, nobody has to agree with it nor do we have to sit silently by while she does it.

[a1na2]

He would not do as you do.
He'd most likely forgive both of you as well. Not that that her politics would be considered a sin to Him anyways.

Now that you have passed judgment on my actions, what would Jesus say about your actions?

[BucEyedPea]

Yeah, but you're the Christian.
However, I don't know how asking what Christ would do is judging you.
You're the one who implied needing forgiveness, implying doing something in violation of the Decalogue. Besides, I think to never judge is unethical. I thought that passage in the Bible was about hypocrisy more.

[memyselfI]

So you are a proponent that we need to listen and adhere to her beliefs, eh?

She is a supporter of Iran. How does that sit with you? She is a supporter of the terrorists attacks against and holds that Bush was the reason. Bush was in office a mere few months when the attack occurred and she has yet to understand the planning for 9/11 started in 1994.

You are an outright liar and quite delusional too boot. I'd like to see your proof of either of the outright lies you've posted right here. NOT YOUR INTERPRETATION OF MY REMARKS but actual quotes of mine where I say either of the things you alledge.

I'll be eagerly awaiting your apology. I'm sure pigs will fly first.

[patteeu]

Pat,
The package I'm talkin' 'bout won't be wrapped in a white flag if we just go after AQ! Nope! That one is winnable too. If ya' want social engineering and nation building...well then I can't help you there. I can only say, there is nothing to win there.

BTW, I wanted to get back with you on an earlier comment, that came up in another thread awhile back....regarding the claim that Bolton nixed the Fair Tax in the Bush administration. I bumped into that FT guy again, who is no longer ED btw but still involved...and you were right....it was Josh Bolton. ( I assumed since only last names were originally used he knew who I meant as I didn't know there were two.) But JB nixed the Fair Tax because he wanted social security to get the focus as more important per him when he became CofS.

As for the Edwards statement, he clarified that Edwards was for the Nat'l Sales and Retail tax, which I took as the same thing as the FT but apparently is not. I never heard of a separate one going around anyhow. He said Edwards supported that plus all the other taxes he stumps for as well.

Where are you going to go after them? They're in Iraq as we speak but you want out of there. Are you going to limit your operations to Afghanistan and hope they agree to come and be killed/captured at your convenience?

Thanks for the update on the Bolton thing. That makes complete sense. Josh Bolton's area of responsibility would have much more to do with domestic policy than John Bolton's did and I'm not at all surprised that he wanted to focus on one major domestic policy agenda instead of spreading the focus among more than one.

[a1na2]

Yeah, but you're the Christian.
However, I don't know how asking what Christ would do is judging you.
You're the one who implied needing forgiveness, implying doing something in violation of the Decalogue. Besides, I think to never judge is unethical. I thought that passage in the Bible was about hypocrisy more.

You are quite the debater as well as quite the hypocrite. I know I fall short and don't really need your assistance in pointing it out. Clean up y our own back yard dude.

[memyselfI]

.

IMO, your confusing her disdain for this administration with disdain for America...i cant stand these friggin guys either & any number of respected Reps have broken ranks with them on a variety of issues to.



It's the new GOP talking points. I happened to listen to Rush for the first time in MONTHS the other day and he was going on ad nauseum about how it is not possible to hate the goverment of the US and not hate the country. He's forgetting how much he adored the Clinton Administration, isn't he? :rolleyes:

Anyway, he was going on trying to equate the government to THE COUNTRY and then he read the following quote to reinforce his point.

How dare you suggest that we, in the freest nation on earth, live in tyranny? How dare you call yourselves patriots and heroes? I say to you, all of you, there is nothing patriotic about hating your country or pretending that you can love your country but despise your government. There is nothing heroic about turning your back on America or ignoring your own responsibilities. If you want to preserve your own freedom, you must stand up for the freedom of others with whom you disagree, but you also must stand up for the rule of law. You cannot have one without other."

He later revealed the quote was from Bill Clinton and how he was lambasting the Michigan Militia for the Timothy McVeighs their likeminded spawn.

As usual Rush missed the point. Clinton was talking about people taking up arms in order to reinforce their hatred of the government. (you can read his delusional rant here:
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_100807/content/01125107.guest.html )

I don't own arms and don't advocate an overthrow of the government. I would like them impeached or voted out of office. I'd like them in jail for what I believe are war crimes. I do not advocate anyone violently removing them.

I believe ideas and a desire for peace will be their undoing. No need to take up arms.

[ClevelandBronco]

The single biggest tool that impacts the level of government in this country has been the SCOTUS, as you are surely aware. When one of the Four Horsemen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_(Supreme_Court)) of the pre-New Deal Court finally retired and was replaced by a more "modern" thinking justice in Hugo Black (along with the switch of allegiance of one of the justices who'd often sided with the Four Horsemen), one of the last major restraints on government expansion fell. After that, the court "revised it's understanding" of the Commerce Clause to justify almost any federal legislation that tickled Congress's fancy. The rest (of the creeping socialism that we've experienced since) has been history.

After nearly 6 decades, under a court that had been injected with a new strain of conservative Justices, thanks to the Reagan and Bush administrations, the Court finally found a law that they thought ran afoul of the Commerce Clause (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Lopez).

Whatever you think of George W. Bush, he *appears* to have put us into position to finally, after 70 years, reclaim the court and the concept of truly limited government. 70 years is a long time. If the democrats get to rejuvenate the Stevens and Ginsberg seats with younger liberals, the next time an opportunity comes to push the court off of it's current "balance" it will be the democrats opportunity to move the court back into solidly liberal territory. It will literally be another decade or two before conservatives even have a chance to return the court to it's current "balance". Who knows how much longer than that before we again have the same opportunity that is facing us today. And by "balance", I mean a Court that is nominally in ideological balance, but in fact ends up being a net loser for fans of limited government over the long run.

Too much is at stake to cavalierly say that you've lived with it your whole life so more won't hurt now. I'm not suggesting that you should abandon Ron Paul's campaign. I'm suggesting that you, Paul, social conservatives and anyone else who is serious about wanting limited government should vote for the ultimate Republican nominee even if you have major differences with that candidate, just as I plan to do if Ron Paul were to win the nomination.

You couldn't be more correct. Rail against the two party system all you want. Then grow up and vote for one of the two.

[a1na2]

You are an outright liar and quite delusional too boot. I'd like to see your proof of either of the outright lies you've posted right here. NOT YOUR INTERPRETATION OF MY REMARKS but actual quotes of mine where I say either of the things you alledge.

I'll be eagerly awaiting your apology. I'm sure pigs will fly first.

You are going to have to be eager for quite a long time. You don't want my interpretation of what you said, but are willing to stand on everything you post?

You post items in an attempt to draw out the ire of "real Americans". You have not stated your approval of the attacks on 9/11 you certainly have indicated that you felt the U.S. deserved it.

You are as anti-American as they come. Keep up with your posts though, many have fought for your freedom to be what you are.

[memyselfI]

You are going to have to be eager for quite a long time. You don't want my interpretation of what you said, but are willing to stand on everything you post?

You post items in an attempt to draw out the ire of "real Americans". You have not stated your approval of the attacks on 9/11 you certainly have indicated that you felt the U.S. deserved it.

You are as anti-American as they come. Keep up with your posts though, many have fought for your freedom to be what you are.

Oh, so you can't post proof so you are moving the goalposts. Now, I've stated the US deserved it? I'd like to see proof I said that as well.


With your 600+ posts you have NO IDEA how much I stand on what I say...

I've been through dozens of minions like you. And guess what, they are fewer and farther between because much of what I predicted has come true and even those who wanted to support the war and believe their government was telling the truth and had their best interest at heart have evolved closer to my way of thinking about the situation than I could have ever imagined.

So I guess in a way, that sort of situation would scare you silly. Can't say I blame you. But I could have just as easily been wrong. Can't blame me for the fact that the goverment ended up playing up to and waaaaaaaaaaay past the lowest common denominator in my predictive thinking. You should be skeptical, suspicious, and resentful alright but I think you are deflecting those emotions to the wrong person/ideas. I understand how that is sometimes necessary for survival in one's reality though.

[bunnytrdr]

These place is fille with elitist, malignant growth attorney types who think their postings make one pint of piss worth of difference.

You forgot this choice.

[a1na2]

Oh, so you can't post proof so you are moving the goalposts. Now, I've stated the US deserved it? I'd like to see proof I said that as well.


With your 600+ posts you have NO IDEA how much I stand on what I say...

I've been through dozens of minions like you. And guess what, they are fewer and farther between because much of what I predicted has come true and even those who wanted to support the war and believe their government was telling the truth and had their best interest at heart have evolved closer to my way of thinking about the situation than I could have ever imagined.

So I guess in a way, that sort of situation would scare you silly. Can't say I blame you. But I could have just as easily been wrong. Can't blame me for the fact that the goverment ended up playing up to and waaaaaaaaaaay past the lowest common denominator in my predictive thinking. You should be skeptical, suspicious, and resentful alright but I think you are deflecting those emotions to the wrong person/ideas. I understand how that is sometimes necessary for survival in one's reality though.

So you are admitting that you have inside contacts with the terrorists?

Your hatred of the American way is disgusting.

[CRONUS]

Oh, so you can't post proof so you are moving the goalposts. Now, I've stated the US deserved it? I'd like to see proof I said that as well.


With your 600+ posts you have NO IDEA how much I stand on what I say...

I've been through dozens of minions like you. And guess what, they are fewer and farther between because much of what I predicted has come true and even those who wanted to support the war and believe their government was telling the truth and had their best interest at heart have evolved closer to my way of thinking about the situation than I could have ever imagined.

So I guess in a way, that sort of situation would scare you silly. Can't say I blame you. But I could have just as easily been wrong. Can't blame me for the fact that the goverment ended up playing up to and waaaaaaaaaaay past the lowest common denominator in my predictive thinking. You should be skeptical, suspicious, and resentful alright but I think you are deflecting those emotions to the wrong person/ideas. I understand how that is sometimes necessary for survival in one's reality though.
You do know this is Vodemortom Cashbackwick, right DEnise?

[SBK]

You do know this is Vodemortom Cashbackwick, right DEnise?




ROFL

[BucEyedPea]

You are quite the debater as well as quite the hypocrite. I know I fall short and don't really need your assistance in pointing it out. Clean up y our own back yard dude.
I didn't judge you. I asked you what Christ would do.
And I'm not a dude.

[memyselfI]

You do know this is Vodemortom Cashbackwick, right DEnise?

:doh!:

I guess I haven't been around or paying too much attention lately. That certainly explains the high vitriol/low IQ demeanor of the posts. ROFL

Thank you for saving me future time and energy. :clap:

[banyon]

These place is fille with elitist, malignant growth attorney types who think their postings make one pint of piss worth of difference.

You forgot this choice.

"I'm a f***ing tard"

Yes I forgot to put an option for you bunny turd. My apologies.

[chagrin]

Ron Paul will kill this election, thank you - goodnight...idiots

[patteeu]

What this forum could really use is memyselfi posting every talking point and favorable article regarding the Edwards campaign, caffeinated_virus pimping Tom Tancredo's every statement on illegal immigration, and a rabid group of wild eyed zealots telling us over and over how electing Dennis Kucinich is the only way to avoid dragging our society back to pre-enlightenment status.

Oh... and more Boyceofsummer!

[tiptap]

I could get my daughter who likes Dennis Kucinich and will vote for the first time in next years elections.

[patteeu]

I could get my daughter who likes Dennis Kucinich and will vote for the first time in next years elections.

That's a start! :thumb:

[memyselfI]

What this forum could really use is memyselfi posting every talking point and favorable article regarding the Edwards campaign, caffeinated_virus pimping Tom Tancredo's every statement on illegal immigration, and a rabid group of wild eyed zealots telling us over and over how electing Dennis Kucinich is the only way to avoid dragging our society back to pre-enlightenment status.

Oh... and more Boyceofsummer!

That would be possible if I were actually endorsing Edwards. I'm still hoping for Gore. Then it's pretty much a toss up between him and Hillary. I'm not overly enthusiastic about either candidate compared to Gore.

[patteeu]

That would be possible if I were actually endorsing Edwards. I'm still hoping for Gore. Then it's pretty much a toss up between him and Hillary. I'm not overly enthusiastic about either candidate compared to Gore.

IIRC you were an Edwards fan 4 years ago (maybe I'm wrong), but I did have a vague recollection that you'd moved away from him this time around. OK, substitute Hillary for Edwards in my previous proposal. That will be even better anyway because it will rub many democrats wrong in addition to the chaffing it causes to conservatives.

[a1na2]

I didn't judge you. I asked you what Christ would do.
And I'm not a dude.

Doesn't matter what you are, the content of your post tends to be judgmental.

I answered your question, he would forgive me for my shortcomings. To bad there are so few on this board that can do the same.

[a1na2]

:doh!:

I guess I haven't been around or paying too much attention lately. That certainly explains the high vitriol/low IQ demeanor of the posts.
Thank you for saving me future time and energy.

Denise you ignorant slut. (SNL) You need people to comment so you can continue your hatred of the U.S. in full force.

When did you convert Jim Reynolds? He was just an ass before, now he is a flaming left wing liberal ass now. I hope you didn't give him a disease.

[CRONUS]

:doh!:

I guess I haven't been around or paying too much attention lately. That certainly explains the high vitriol/low IQ demeanor of the posts. ROFL

Thank you for saving me future time and energy. :clap:

No problem. All of us of pretty much any political stripe hold voldemorTom cAshbackwick in equally high esteem.

[CRONUS]

That would be possible if I were actually endorsing Edwards. I'm still hoping for Gore. Then it's pretty much a toss up between him and Hillary. I'm not overly enthusiastic about either candidate compared to Gore.

Just to prove DEnise has not converted me, I feel Ron Paul would make a better candidate as would Barrack Obama. I pretty much hate both fields though. I am still hoping for some unknown to pop up and wow us.

[a1na2]

Just to prove DEnise has not converted me, I feel Ron Paul would make a better candidate as would Barrack Obama. I pretty much hate both fields though. I am still hoping for some unknown to pop up and wow us.

You are not fooling anyone. You and D enise are having a gay love affair.

[Adept Havelock]

I pretty much hate both fields though. I am still hoping for some unknown to pop up and wow us.

I'm right there with you. I've got a hunch I'll be holding my nose in Nov. '08 when I pull that lever in the booth.

[BucEyedPea]

Do they still have levers in some places?
I'll be pushing on a screen. I know that.

[banyon]

Do they still have levers in some places?
I'll be pushing on a screen. I know that.

We bubble it in like grade school scan tron forms here, but I prefer it that way since it at least means there'll be a paper trail.

[BucEyedPea]

We had a paper trail here. Y'all know how that went.

[a1na2]

We had a paper trail here. Y'all know how that went.

That statement might be meaningful if anyone could decipher it.

[patteeu]

We just change the numbers in the computer system after the little people go through their ritual of touching their touchscreens.

[BucEyedPea]

*click* to save evidence of post #96!

I kne it! I knew it! Pat posts here for the pahty!

[banyon]

We had a paper trail here. Y'all know how that went.

Yeah, I don't believe that voting irregularites are limited to touchscreens alone or didn't occur prior to touchscreens.

[banyon]

We just change the numbers in the computer system after the little people go through their ritual of touching their touchscreens.

LOL, I'm surprised Dick Cheney allowed you to let that out.

[CRONUS]

This place is a hell hole filled with a bunch of miserable lowlifes, that's why I never post here [ 7 ] polls/bar5-l.gifpolls/bar5.gifpolls/bar5-r.gif 4.55%
frazod, H5N1, JBucc, kcchiefsfanGoLJ, Mr. Kotter, scott free, Simplex3


I believe we have some prevaricators. I will leave it to you to judge who.

[a1na2]

Jim, Jim, Jim ... Who really cares what you think?

I'm hoping that some day you will grow up and realize that the world doesn't revolve around you.

[banyon]

This place is a hell hole filled with a bunch of miserable lowlifes, that's why I never post here [ 7 ] polls/bar5-l.gifpolls/bar5.gifpolls/bar5-r.gif 4.55%
frazod, H5N1, JBucc, kcchiefsfanGoLJ, Mr. Kotter, scott free, Simplex3


I believe we have some prevaricators. I will leave it to you to judge who.

I just see one : (;))

[a1na2]

:rolleyes:

[Extra Point]

People here are set in their ways and won't change, and I don't stick around for the entertainment value

[patteeu]

People here are set in their ways and won't change, and I don't stick around for the entertainment value

What brings you by today?

[Extra Point]

Trolling, as usual.

[Brock]

It serves the purpose of keeping Cash contained.

[Adept Havelock]

It serves the purpose of keeping Cash contained.

:hmmm:

?

[go bowe]

No problem. All of us of pretty much any political stripe hold voldemorTom cAshbackwick in equally high esteem.teehee...

political stripes?

don't forget those of us with political spots, like a pinto horse, sort of...