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View Full Version : Republican party has two choices: Nominate Ron Paul or whither


Taco John
10-12-2007, 02:21 PM
The base is fracturing, and Ron Paul is tapping into a conservative vein that will shrink the party even more if they don't embrace it.


Ron Paul: The Dean Precedent for a New Political Wing
Friday, October 12, 2007 - FreeMarketNews.com


Whether GOP presidential candidate Ron Paul wins the election his party’s nomination, or the presidency itself, he is likely amassing one of the best data bases ever of free-market names, those who have contributed to his campaign and are willing to fund other candidates running on a Ron Paul style platform.

In fact, this data base may spark a resurgence, nation wide of the kind of Jeffersonian conservatism platform – anti-war and anti-big government – on which Ron Paul has run with increasing success thus far. “The fund raising, straw polls and debates themselves show that there is considerable receptivity to his message,” says one source close to the campaign.

This source and others add that one likely option for Ron Paul is to utilize his increasingly powerful database on a state by state basis to build up funding for candidates with backgrounds and ideologies similar to his.

One source says, “[These days] you’ve got young people of all backgrounds who are very motivated and go to political meetings and sit around and talk about fiat money and other concepts that you would never have heard discussed a decade ago. There’s been a qualitative change in the political conversation, and if there’s some funding, there would be plenty of candidates willing to run at state and local levels, and even national levels on Ron Paul’s platform.”

There is precedent to this in that the Democratic presidential contender in the last presidential cycle, Howard Dean, built a massive fund-raising and electoral effort using the Internet-oriented data base he amassed. The results can be seen at the web site “Democracy for America” which has successfully endorsed and helped fund what would seem to be socialist-oriented candidates – levelers - at all levels throughout the nation. The group even sponsors a DFA Training Academy to solicit further donations and spread the word.

http://www.democracyforamerica.com/candidates

Sources close to the campaign believe Ron Paul will be in a position to set up the same sort of effort, only one that would focus on “Liberty for America” rather than “Democracy for America.”

=====

From the Democracy for America website:

What is Democracy for America?

Inspired by the presidential campaign of Howard Dean, Democracy for America (DFA) is a political action committee dedicated to supporting fiscally responsible, socially progressive candidates at all levels of government—from school board to the presidency. DFA fights against the influence of the far right-wing and their radical, divisive policies and the selfish special interests that for too long have dominated our politics.

DFA has a long-term goal to rebuild the Democratic Party from the bottom up—it will take time, but we must start building a base now for the future.

Nightfyre
10-12-2007, 02:29 PM
One can hope this could spring a third party. American history shows that it is more likely to overhaul a current party if it gets to that level of competitiveness.

jAZ
10-12-2007, 03:30 PM
There is precedent to this in that the Democratic presidential contender in the last presidential cycle, Howard Dean, built a massive fund-raising and electoral effort using the Internet-oriented data base he amassed. The results can be seen at the web site “Democracy for America” which has successfully endorsed and helped fund what would seem to be socialist-oriented candidates – levelers - at all levels throughout the nation. The group even sponsors a DFA Training Academy to solicit further donations and spread the word.

http://www.democracyforamerica.com/candidates

Sources close to the campaign believe Ron Paul will be in a position to set up the same sort of effort, only one that would focus on “Liberty for America” rather than “Democracy for America.”

=====

From the Democracy for America website:

What is Democracy for America?

Inspired by the presidential campaign of Howard Dean, Democracy for America (DFA) is a political action committee dedicated to supporting fiscally responsible, socially progressive candidates at all levels of government—from school board to the presidency. DFA fights against the influence of the far right-wing and their radical, divisive policies and the selfish special interests that for too long have dominated our politics.

DFA has a long-term goal to rebuild the Democratic Party from the bottom up—it will take time, but we must start building a base now for the future.
I mentioned a while back that I went through a leadership development training program (ie, the "confession: I'm now an 'operative'" thread). I learned about that because I attended a weekend training of the DFA Academy here in AZ about 6 months prior.

They are locating swingable, but under-focused regions of the country and taking their training on the road. In this case, it was Sierra Vista, AZ about a hour south of Tucson. It was a moderate Republican district. before 2006. It was one of those that flipped to a DEM in the 06 election.

Those training programs can really work. They help make passionate, motivated people more organized and coordinated to work together.

Suprisingly, there were quite a few Repubilcans in that training and in the leadership development program I later went through. They are very much "Ron Paul" type "progressive" Republicans.

Taco John
10-12-2007, 04:31 PM
One can hope this could spring a third party. American history shows that it is more likely to overhaul a current party if it gets to that level of competitiveness.



It's my hope that he overhaul's the current party, but at this point I think that he's popular enough that he could mount a strong Libertarian party that challenges both parties for support and provides an outlet for people.

It's funny, because I've known that this was coming for over 15 years now... But now that it's actually starting, I'm still suprised by it. I guess I thought this movement was still ten years off. I'm excited that it's here seemingly in the nick of time.

Taco John
10-12-2007, 04:32 PM
They are very much "Ron Paul" type "progressive" Republicans.


Progressive?

I have a feeling you and Banyon use that word differently.

jAZ
10-12-2007, 04:41 PM
Progressive?

I have a feeling you and Banyon use that word differently.
Maybe so. It's the typical Libertarian 50-50 split. Many of their issues are in agreement with the progressive movement, many are not.

That's the same with the Repubilcans who self-identify as progressive. They typically support several of these issues in opposition to their own party: gay marriage, pro-choice, support public school education, oppose Iraq War, etc.

Taco John
10-12-2007, 04:45 PM
It's my experience that libertarians and progressives share similar end goals, but the means are what is different. A progressive thinks more government is the solution, as where a libertarian believes less government is.

banyon
10-12-2007, 05:30 PM
It's my experience that libertarians and progressives share similar end goals, but the means are what is different. A progressive thinks more government is the solution, as where a libertarian believes less government is.

More government oversight, but not more spending necessarily.

For example, most progressives would be for more disclosure of earmarks, etc. to identify wasteful spending that can be eliminated for more pork-barrel type spending. Paying for someone to review that might cost something, but the net effect of getting rid of the waste would likely reduce spending.

Taco John
10-12-2007, 05:37 PM
Yeah, but who are you paying off to make sure that the person you are paying isn't being paid off?

banyon
10-12-2007, 05:41 PM
Yeah, but who are you paying off to make sure that the person you are paying isn't being paid off?

You can only address it to a practical extent. Right now there is no oversight over all that earmark waste. I'd prefer at least some nonpartisan comittee to make recommendations to the Budget comittee every year on trimming waste. You can also do it bill by bill, have the Line Item veto, or prevent bill logrolling. There are lots of ways to address the problem, and it's true we can't check the checkers in some sort of Third-man infinite regress-type way, but you have to alocate your oversight resources practically.

Adept Havelock
10-12-2007, 05:58 PM
Yeah, but who are you paying off to make sure that the person you are paying isn't being paid off?

Or as the question was originially phrased:

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Same answer to both.

Eventually you have to trust someone, or everyone in the damn world has to be a turnkey. :shrug:

WilliamTheIrish
10-13-2007, 11:04 AM
Wither thee away, RNC.

Taco John
10-13-2007, 12:07 PM
Or as the question was originially phrased:


Same answer to both.

Eventually you have to trust someone, or everyone in the damn world has to be a turnkey. :shrug:



Lord knows that some of the people here would advocate federalizing the enitre world in order to find out.

Adept Havelock
10-13-2007, 12:18 PM
Lord knows that some of the people here would advocate federalizing the enitre world in order to find out.


Yeah, they just don't get idealistic hip young revolutionaries like you and your desire to...

Taco John
10-13-2007, 01:22 PM
And that's not mention the old revolutionaries who tore it all down in the first place.