PDA

View Full Version : more guns than ever...but...how can this be?


Iowanian
06-14-2001, 08:24 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,27174,00.html

The argument that too many guns available are causing more violent crimes seems to be out the window now...how can this be?

Spin away.

~just bored and trying to pick a fight.

Clint in Wichita
06-14-2001, 08:32 AM
I thought you didn't buy into the biased liberal media.

NaptownChief
06-14-2001, 08:34 AM
Fox News is the only major outlet that doesn't have a huge liberal bias....That is why most of the liberals usually try to discredit anything that comes from them...

Clint in Wichita
06-14-2001, 08:40 AM
What makes you think they're not biased?

Clint in Wichita
06-14-2001, 08:42 AM
I'm not trying to discredit Fox. YOU should be. The article is one big gooey Clinton love-fest until it mentions Bush's desire to try and fix something that isn't broken.

bkkcoh
06-14-2001, 08:45 AM
Clint,

Just think how much the crime would have gone down if the Clinton Administration would have prosecuted the people who were denied getting a gun because of the 'Brady Bill'. It may have dropped about 25%.

:D

Iowanian
06-14-2001, 08:47 AM
Think you have me confused with someone else....however I don't beleive everything the media says. Once again, I'm an independant...I don't need captain "democrap" to tell me what to think.

I'm merely attempting to point out the irony that in the last few months we've been bombarded with information about how many guns are on the streets and rising violent crime etc....and this report appears to counter that argument.

~Trying to spark some debate on a quiet workday.

KCTitus
06-14-2001, 08:48 AM
obviously, I didnt read the same article, Clint. Also, I read nothing in this article with regard to guns, Iowanian.

HC_Chief
06-14-2001, 08:49 AM
This report does NOT count <i><b><u>MURDER</i></u></b> as a 'violent' crime!!!?!

Uhh, murder is pretty-much the ultimate violent act - don't you think?

Iowanian
06-14-2001, 08:52 AM
Titus,

I saw several references to "armed assaults" and percentages of attacks and robberies by "armed assailants...

" Most victims of violent crimes 67 percent face unarmed attackers. Robbery, however, is the exception, with victims facing armed assailants more than half of the time. "

I do concede that the non included "murder" category skews the statistics and weakens my argument.

~mostly trying to spark some debate.....not defend the specific article....

KCTitus
06-14-2001, 08:58 AM
Yes, I read that too, however, 'armed' doesnt necessarily mean 'gun'. Other arms could include but are not limited to: knives, bats, clubs, etc.

Iowanian
06-14-2001, 09:03 AM
I guess I just "assumed" guns were included....

I think its also relevant that violent crime statistics for robberies etc...are down in the fact that if there are less thefts, rapes, robberies etc....the number of murders would decline as well....If you're not in the store with the gun on the teller, you're not as likely to shoot them...

Its just been a long time since I've seen Dan Rather talking about "today, 2 men armed with pixie stix and milky way robbed the 1st bank of manhatten"...

KCTitus
06-14-2001, 09:12 AM
Rather...now, there's a good example of liberal biased reporter/journalist.

More cops doesnt do anything as far as prevention of violent crime. Most of those 'new' cops are spending more time ticketing those scofflaws on the highway for doing 8 miles over the speed limit.

An example of a biased report would have been if the fox report had tried to make the argument that you made, Iowanian, with no facts to back up the assertion.

bkkcoh
06-14-2001, 09:20 AM
Last Saturday I was going to a golf course in the Columbus area and on a side street I was doing 35 mph in a 25 mph zone. There happened to be a cop sitting at the stop sign in which I would also have to stop.

He said, "35 mph will cost $85.00". Luckily, he just warned me. But the point is, if the cops could make money from solving crimes like they make money on speeding tickets, there would be very little unsolved crimes.

The police aren't there to 'Protect and Serve! They are there to fill out crime reports and write tickets that bring money into thier budget. It is a total joke.

The only people that you can count on to protect you is you.

:mad:

KCTitus
06-14-2001, 09:29 AM
True...I was still in KC at the time of Clinton's grand plan of 100k new cops and I remember on the local news that it meant that the fed's would pony up the money for like 10 cops in the KC area. TEN! That meant more speed traps on 435 and I-70.

keg in kc
06-14-2001, 09:29 AM
Err, if you weren't breaking the law and driving 35 in that 25, the police wouldn't be giving you warnings or issuing tickets.

In other words, if more people (myself included) followed the posted speed limits, there wouldn't be so many tickets and maybe they could spend more time solving those crimes. Don't blame the cops for our actions. The speed limits are clearly posted and we ignore them anyway like complete idiots shouting "here occifer! easy money!" A speed trap ain't a trap if you're not speeding...

Personal responsibility is a b!tch.

bkkcoh
06-14-2001, 09:36 AM
if more people (myself included) followed the posted speed limits, there wouldn't be so many tickets and maybe they could spend more time solving those crimes. Don't blame the cops for our actions. The speed limits are clearly posted and we ignore them anyway like complete idiots shouting "here occifer! easy money!" A speed trap ain't a trap if you're not speeding...

.

That wasn't my point. I fully deserved the ticket, thank God I didn't, the wife would have kicked my arse.... :)

The topic was crime, you can't tell me that getting a person who happened to be driving over speed limit is more important than serving a warrant for someone who beat up his wife.

Sure a crime has been committed by me speeding. There are more crimes committed in the USA than any where else because there are so DAM* many laws on the books.

KCTitus
06-14-2001, 09:39 AM
In other words, if more people (myself included) followed the posted speed limits, there wouldn't be so many tickets and maybe they could spend more time solving those crimes. - PT Barnum was right.

Clint in Wichita
06-14-2001, 09:40 AM
IMO most speed limits are set about 10 MPH too low on purpose. They are not intended to make roads less hazzardous, or to conserve fuel. They are simply another way of taxing the American public. BTW I push it to the limit basically the whole time I'm behind the wheel without my kid in the car, which is 7-9 MPH over the posted speed limit in most areas.

Although they always deny it, I still believe that cops have a ticket quota. Either that or many cops are simply a-holes.

KCTitus
06-14-2001, 09:41 AM
Clint, I agree and they DO have a quota. I have a close friend in the KC police dept and the Richmond police dept. They both have quotas of tickets they must write.

bkkcoh
06-14-2001, 09:45 AM
.....they DO have a quota. I have a close friend in the KC police dept and the Richmond police dept. They both have quotas of tickets they must write.

That kind of proves that they aren't really in the business to protect and serve the community.

I would agree that the agressive speeder needs to be curtained, but the average speeder isn't causing any problems.

KCTitus
06-14-2001, 09:54 AM
I'll give you another local example...here in Downtown Richmond, about 3 years ago the local city govt hired a private firm to issue parking tickets. During that same time, they removed about 10% of the meters that were available around a couple of the colleges that are located in the downtown area and around an area known as the 'fan' where a lot of people who live downtown live.

The argument was that it was taxing the local police dept to keep up with the 'parking problem'.

After 2 years it was revealed that the number of tickets was up about 300% and revenues from the fines at record highs. Most of the people cited were college students and those that lived downtown. Meanwhile, violent crime increased in the downtown area.

ChiTown
06-14-2001, 09:55 AM
BK

The majority of all crimes are misdemeanors and are the easiest for police officers to catch and solve. You speed, you get caught, case solved. You forget to renew your tags, you get caught, case solved. Millions of people drive each day, therefore, the odds are many will get caught speeding or doing something reckless.

We can't expect the the odds to be as good with more serious crimes. The hardened criminal is more difficult to catch and generally spends his time figuring out how to allude the law. These crimes take more time to solve and to pursue. I guess I'm failing to understand your point. Your idea of police protection seems a bit unrealistic, IMO.

By the way, my brother is a cop in KC, and they have quota's as well. However, he tells me that he let's 2x as many people off the hook than he actually writes tickets. For example, he may never stop some people for going over the speed limit or breaking other driving laws. I think cops have a pretty difficult and sometimes very dangerous job (based on the risk/reward angle). Of course, my viewpoint is obviously skewed.

BIG_DADDY
06-14-2001, 10:01 AM
If BIG DADDY had it his way there wouldn't be any speed limits as I love fast cars and motorcycles. Realizing that is never going to happen I would have to agree that most speed limits are way too low. There is no doubt they are much more interested in creating revenue than serving and protecting. I guess our sky high taxes just are not enough.

BIG DADDY

Thinks they should have a ticket limit so they only try and ticket the worst offenders.

Clint in Wichita
06-14-2001, 10:54 AM
Since tickets are a source of revenue, I'd like to see a "Speeder's Membership Program".

Pay a couple hundred bucks a year and you get a sticker for your rear window, allowing you to go 10 MPH over the posted speed limit (except school zones and construction areas) without being ticketed or increasing your insurance rates.

I guess I'll wake up now.

Iowanian
06-14-2001, 11:00 AM
clint,

I actually really like that idea.

buy the sticker....maybe 2 and you could go 15 over.

morphius
06-14-2001, 11:07 AM
I almost got pulled over for speeding for the first time yesterday, 5 mph over the speed limit and a cop sitting on the other side of the hill. For some reason he just pulled out and caught up with me, then pointed at me and then turned around. Maybe his little way of saying "gotcha", but totally freaked me out as I was planning on saving my first ticket for something a bit more speedy then 5 over, I think Big Daddy knows what I'm talking about.

In my driving expierience the posted speed limits always seem a bit slow, and in every vehicle I have driven I was able to take the cruves 20mph faster then posted speeds (except in a few mountain areas). Of course I once heard that the interstates were designed to handle 80 MPH as a limit, they just set it much lower.

The thing that gets me the most, though, is construction zones were no work is being done for long periods of time and they expect people to slow down for them. There are occasions when the construction causes some safety issues for drivers, but in a lot of these long term projects it just seems to be a great way for cops to double your ticket. In Omahell I-680 was under construction for well over a year, with slow speed limits and no work being done. Then the work is completed and the barrells and signs hang around for a few extra weeks and then one day the cops set up a speed trap pulling over tons of people for speeding, only to remove the orange barrels and construction signs the next day. Kind of gave new meaning to "speed trap".

Morphius
Just had to vent

Mark M
06-14-2001, 11:07 AM
Don't know where this fits into this thread, but I found it amusing ...

Number of physicians in the US: 700,000.
Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year: 120,000.
Accidental deaths per physician.... 0.171 (U.S. Dept. of Health & Human
Services)

Number of gun owners in the US: 80,000,000.
Number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups) 1,500.
Accidental deaths per gun owner: 0.0000188(* Benton County News Tribune
on 17th of November, 1999).

Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.

"Remember, not everyone has a gun, but everyone has at least one Doctor."

Please alert your friends to this alarming threat. We must ban doctors before this gets out of hand.

Remember guns don't kill people, doctors do!

MM
~~Just playing along ...

BIG_DADDY
06-14-2001, 01:31 PM
Mark M,

ROTFLMAO, Some of your posts freakin kill me. I was going back through the Friday goof off post the other day and your post about the youg white kid listening to gangster rap gave me stomach cramps I laughed so hard.

Morphius,

I know exactly what your talking about. Get this. I am driving home today on this street that is the worst speeding trap I have ever seen. The speed limit is 25 MPH. There is a cop on that street 24-7 handing out tickets for anything above that. Yes I have seen a 28 in a 25 ticket issued there. Fortunately it wasn't me. Some stupid cop in his camaro ( yes the cops have those here) is going at least 40 MPH on that street and NO it did not look like he was responding to a call at all. That freakin pisses me off :mad: Arrogant S.O.B.s.

Mark M
06-14-2001, 01:38 PM
BIG_DADDY--
Thank you very much! The last post was actually an e-mail someone sent me (gotta give credit where credit is due). The rap thing was actually original. One of these days I'll get back on stage and try it in front of a live audience (I did stand up comedy for about a year, then had to get a real job. :( I think Iowanian should give it a shot as well ... he's so silly :D ).

Back to the topic ...

Everyone cries about how violence among youth nowadays, yet the statistics show it is actually dropping. Shows how much the media plays a role in these kind of things.

Thank you, and good night.

MM
~~Refining the art of the hit and run post.

Clint in Wichita
06-14-2001, 01:46 PM
I don't buy the fact that 120,000 people die due to mistakes by physicians each year.

I can imagine it now: Some guy enters the emergency room with his intestines hanging out, and because the doctor fails to revive the patient, it's his fault & another one of those 120,000 people gets added to the list.

If there were that many accidental deaths each year, the lawsuits would be in the trillions.

KS Smitty
06-14-2001, 01:54 PM
Our city cop DOES NOT have quota's of any kind, especially for speeding tickets. I know for a fact (I'm Clerk of the Court) that she turns in as many written warnings as tickets and gives verbal warnings also. All of our speed limits are within the guidelines set by the state of Kansas (and included in the Kansas Drivers Handbook) and our signs meet the Manual for Uniform Traffic Control Devices. Yet we have people fight their tickets all the time. There's a 70 mph four lane highway less than a mile north of us that runs the same direction as the main drag through town so you would think speeding wouldn't be a problem. Tickets are rarely written for anything under 10 mph yet we have people come to court and fight the ticket. Sorry I'm not sympathetic to people getting caught speeding especially in residential/urban/ suburban areas. Our cop does other things besides catch speeders but there's usually only one guy beatin the hell outta his wife a month (we're a small town) and 75-100 speeders. So do the cops sit on their *** until a call comes in or do they spend their time productively by being aware of other infractions and violations and doing what they're paid to do? Investigations of major crimes usually aren't done by the "traffic" cops anyway. And a word of warning to anyone that drives in Kansas on a regular basis: Effective July 1 fines for all moving violations will be TRIPLE. An example: unlawful passing of a school bus goes from a $100 fine to $300. If you're in a city the fine schedule is set by the municipal judge so there may be a difference in their fine schedule (we wont be changing our fine schedule at this point in time) and what a sheriff or state trooper uses.
Mrs. Smitty
Had court yesterday and all the crybaby crap is still buggin me.

Iowanian
06-14-2001, 02:28 PM
If that is true.....you can expect the Iowanian to ask for a Jury trial if I ever am given a speeding ticket in your state. The system taught me a long time ago that admitting guilt is never the right thing to do......I fought and had 2 tickets thrown out last year...without an attorney...actually, one judge told me I should go to law school....but I can be an arsehole for free...don't need to charge $150/hr........wait a minute...what in the heck am I thinking:confused:

mark,
thanks I think? actually I thought about it in college....I do seem to draw a crowd at parties and the bar....maybe someday I'll put enough together to try an ameture night or something....

BIG_DADDY
06-14-2001, 02:28 PM
Mrs. Smitty,

That is OK we can always agree to disagree. BIG DADDY feels that the speed limits are WAY TOO SLOW. Furthermore, they had a special on TV the other day that states that they set the stoplights to slow down traffic for public safety but that is crap. What it actually does is cause drivers to speed so that they can make the light as well as causing drivers to run lights. This causes accidents and deaths, but it is worth it if they can creat a little more revenue for the city. I donate about $200 a year to my local department if I have not received any tickets in the last year. If I receive a ticket, screw em.

BIG DADDY

Will always speed, especially on the 2 wheeler :D

Mark M
06-14-2001, 03:04 PM
Iowa--
It was a compliment. You definitely should try it! It's all timing and delivery ... and it's a heckuva rush!

Clit in B!tchita--
Only you could ruin a perfectly good joke. I bet you're a blast at parties ... do you piss in the punch? :rolleyes: If you want, check out the Health and Human Services site.

MM
~~Wonders why he even tries sometimes

BIG_DADDY
06-14-2001, 03:05 PM
BTW, My sister is a cop and and she says that they do not have an official quota but it goes without saying that if you do not write a certain amount of tickets that you will not retain your job. If you want a promotion, you better be writing tickets BIG TIME.

BIG DADDY

Does not find that very ethical.

KS Smitty
06-14-2001, 04:00 PM
Iowanian, I'm glad that you got those tickets thrown out. This is America and that's what the justice system is for. These triple fines will do nothing but clog up the system. I know I'd be more willing to pay $50.00 for something I may have done wrong but if it's gonna cost $150 you can bet your sweet bippy that I'll fight it in court just to get my money's worth outta it.
Big Daddy, the reason we can't have the speed limits higher is that not everyone are the excellent drivers we are:D Hell if ya wanna go fast go ahead but I sure don't want Granny Piper goin 80 or 90 just because it's the speed limit or only goin 45 or 50 and really creatin problems. Course I'm gettin close to 40 so my perspective has changed from when we were the ones tearin around town and raisin Cain. Smitty holds the record for top speed on the street in front of the house, but ya otta hear him holler at em now! We both haul a$$ when we want, but not in town. I'M GETTING OLD!!! (snivel snivel)
Mrs. Smitty
Still loves a hot rod ride.
My posts are takin forever to go.