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KCJohnny
06-16-2001, 03:02 PM
This is THE end of the NFL's perennially toughest division as we know it. Next year the 'Hawks go over to the NFC.

1. Denver. With a healthy Griese and Ray Rhodes assembling yet another stifling D, the donx are the team to beat. 13-3.

2. Oakland. Although they will lose Gannon to injury, the Raiders will hobble into the post season at 9-7.

3. Kansas City. Chiefs schedule overpowers them, especiall away from Arrowhead. Collins finishes the season at QB. Blaylock the HB at seasons end after a reconvening of the RBbC. 8-8.

4. Bolts jump out at 6-2 and then peter out. 7-9.

5. Seattle. Looking forward to joining the cushy digs of the NFC West. 4-12.

If there is a WILD cosmic disturbance here, then (drum roll), the SD Chargers will win the West with a resurgent O under Norv with Duece and Flutie and that great defense...

KCJ
Stirring up trouble again

Joe Seahawk
06-16-2001, 03:10 PM
4-12? What makes you think we will be worse than last year?

Our schedule is much easier this year and we had the leagues worst defense last year..Our Defense Will be better for sure.

O-line will be better, running game will be solid, quarterback is questionable, but still an improvement over last year..Our main offensive weakness will be our young receivers.

I highly doubt 4-12 will happen..

KCJohnny
06-16-2001, 03:14 PM
Sorry, Joe, somebody's gotta be the whipping boy, and this year I pick the 'Hawks. You think Hass is an upgrade over Kitna? Just too much competition in the AFCW.

The more I think about it, the more I like the Bolts (parity)...

JOhn
06-16-2001, 03:23 PM
Sorry, but if you take your anti DV stance out of your logic, then you might see things better :D

More realistic Results:

#1 Keyword is "healthy" Otherwise they are no better than anyother team.

#2 First part is true enough, but they will resort to the oakland "Fade". No post season here.

#4 no argument

#5 again no argument

Now back to #3.....

Lets examine there "away schedule"

Seattle...... No worry here
Washington....?? will give this to Marty, as he is good at "home"
Denver....... 50/50 Could go either way, but given trends we win
Arizona..... Roflmao
San Diego ....Ditto
Jets.... Ok maybe a loss here
Oakland..... 50/50 but give it to Chokeland
Jacksonville.... Fading fast, KC win

So we have a 5-3 record on the road, 4-4 worst case, doesn't seem farfetched to me. Sorry just don't see a "Overwelming" away schedule. Now combine it with our home record....

OAKLAND... Home win finally
GIANTS.... 50/50, Tough but a win
STEELERS...Jinx is over, Win
COLTS.... Ok maybe loss here
SEATTLE..Win
EAGLES...50/50, but advantage home team Win
DENVER... Trend continues Win
CHARGERS...any doubt? WIN

Ok so we go 7-1 at home, worst case 5-3, so that gives a 12-4 best case or 9-7 worst case. Still looks to be an improvment to me.

so.....

1 Denver ( if Griese healthy)
2 KC
3 the fade starts
4 & 5 pick your choice, SD, or seattle.

ck_IN
06-16-2001, 03:40 PM
Sorry gang, but until this defense shows me something I'm sticking with my 6-10 prediction. I see us finishing just ahead of SD for 4th place.

I'm thinking Denver at 12-4, Oakland at 11-5, Seattle at 9-7, then us and SD.

Chiefs Pantalones
06-16-2001, 03:58 PM
Proctor,

Just what would you do if the Chiefs won a Super Bowl with DV at the helm with this type of O and D?:D

CG

sh!t a brick, perhaps?:p

Cannibal
06-16-2001, 04:24 PM
I sincerely wish your infatuation w/ RBBC would evaporate like Camel piss in the Sahara Desert!

Jesus give that crapola a rest already!

Cannibal
06-16-2001, 04:25 PM
It seems like you mention that utter failure of an offensive philosophy in every post...

Cannibal
06-16-2001, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by ck_IN
Sorry gang, but until this defense shows me something I'm sticking with my 6-10 prediction. I see us finishing just ahead of SD for 4th place.

I'm thinking Denver at 12-4, Oakland at 11-5, Seattle at 9-7, then us and SD.

You may, or may not be correct about the D, but right now I'm more concered about whether or not Trent is going to be able to play. So far it's definitely not a guarantee.

If Scrubby Blister is the starting QB, I am going to have a VERY hard time watching.

BigMeatballDave
06-16-2001, 04:40 PM
From what I`ve read, Trent will be fine by training camp.

BigMeatballDave
06-16-2001, 04:43 PM
Thats nice, ck_IN. So, if the defense is improved you can convieniently switch that prediction to 10-6.

Joe Seahawk
06-16-2001, 05:17 PM
Sorry, Joe, somebody's gotta be the whipping boy, and this year I pick the 'Hawks.


KCJ, Is this the answer to my question?

Is that the best you could come up with...:rolleyes:


Hass is an improvement over Kitna..He had a few good games, but he was Horrible for the most part...

Cormac
06-16-2001, 05:46 PM
Denver: 11-5
Ray Rhodes and Denard Walker are their biggest off-season acquisitions IMHO. I'm not sold on all of their FA pick-ups, but their D should improve nonetheless. Beuerlein offers excellent security at QB, they have addressed their 3rd WR spot, and they have a stable of good backs to choose from. Not many holes on this roster, but the division is competitive, and 11 wins will be tough to get for anybody.
Oakland: 11-5
Jerry Rice and Charlie Garner were 2 good signings IMO. Both are great athletes that will upgrade their positions. This should make Oakland a very good team again this year. But Gannon, Brown and Rice are all aging, and meanwhile they sign Trace Armstrong on D. The downswing in Oakland's performances could happen any year now, depending on injuries.
Kansas City: 8-8
Lots of talented ball catchers and carriers. We don't have a Faulk/James/Taylor type back, but how many teams do? Biggest question mark on offense is Green's knee IMO. I can live with it if we have a few RBs in use, because unlike the last 2 years, a hot RB won't be relegated to the bench after a big gain :rolleyes:
Not much quality depth at DT and big question marks at CB, but surely the D won't dis-improve following the removal of Kurt and Willie.
ST should be exciting (if someone can kick off) which is something we haven't been able to say in years. Stryzinski, Horne, Blaylock, JJ Moses.......mmmmm!
The tough schedule and learning curve/talent evaluation will keep us from the playoffs this season IMO, but look out in 2002.
Seattle: 8-8
Holmgren is going to need another couple of seasons to get Seattle on the right track IMHO. A lot of unproven youngsters at skill positions on offense (Hasslebeck, Robinson, Alexander), with aging FA vets on D (Eaton, Randle, Sinclair) will keep this team around .500 for now.
San Diego: 7-9
Will surprise a few people, and should be the most improved team this season. Were unlucky not to win 3-4 more games last season as it was, and with Flutie, Tomlinson, Marcellus Wiley, as well as Norv Turner, they should come on strong.

It's going to be a heck of a season :)

KCJohnny
06-16-2001, 06:10 PM
Cannibal:
For your information, bud, KC has had exactly 1 RB get over 51% of the team's total rushing attempts in the 40 yr history of the franchise....huff and puff at me all you want but those are the facts, dude...

Joe S: I don't have any hard analysis on Seattle; its enough of a job convincing these guys I something about the Chiefs.

JOhn: we lost last year to SF and SD on the road. And us win in Florida????? Hello??? I hope we can defend Arrowhead as well as Gun...and better. This team will not win 5 road games next year, although I would LOVE that!

Cormac,
As usual, your analysis is the most complete and worthy of reading. You do need to concoct a little bobast, a little controversy or a little delve into subjective opinion...JMHO!

Health predictions:

1. Griese (somehow) sustains his shoulder for 16 games, but the Denver D is the story in Mile High...no drop off w/Beurlein anyway...

2. Gannon will probably get hurt with all that running he does with that 35 yr old body...the back up is who?

3. Trent Green will get hit hard and often this year. Unless he retires (O Lord, please...) we'll see Bubby or (better yet) Collins by Thanksgiving.

4. I stupidly said Deuce in the thread topic when Ladanian Tomlinson is the RB in SD. Brees is there too, no? Flutie will enjoy the balmy weather in Southern California and enjoy Norv Turner's offense even more. Flutie is healthy for all 16 games but we may see Brees...

5. Seattle's QB situation reminds of us at RB in '98...'nuff said.

If EVERY QB in the AFC WEst stays healthy, KC & Oak have a chance. Unfortunately, that won't happen and the donx have the best QB/RB/WR depth in the West and the best defensive coordinator to boot...

KCJ
Too lazy to do research

KCJohnny
06-16-2001, 06:20 PM
Cannibal:

http://www.pigskinpark.com/htm/articles/02.htm

You may think I make this stuff up but its in the Chiefs/Texans official record books....

KCJ

:)

AustinChief
06-16-2001, 07:06 PM
I have a knack for being COMPLETELY wrong on pre-season predictions...
so

I'll say Chiefs 3-13 and hope I'm consistent ;)

KCPHILLY
06-16-2001, 07:08 PM
3. Trent Green will get hit hard and often this year. Unless he retires (O Lord, please...) we'll see Bubby or (better yet) Collins by Thanksgiving.

I don't know why you keep thinking this. TRENT had a rep. in ST.LOUIS for holding the ball longer than WARNER but KURT had the quickest release in the NFL. GRBAC with his 5-7 step drops and happy feet in the pocket caused our O line to have to hold blocks longer than any team in the NFL and he got sacked how many times? You sure can't contribute that low # to his ability to scramble [insert joke here].

There's three reasons I disagree with your take... 1] This Offense is designed as a quick strike Offense with 3 and 5 step drops and quick reads. 2] The passing formations are designed to spread the D both horizontal and vertical allowing for fewer opportunities for the opposing D to utilize blitz packages and when we do see blitzes it will primarily come from the safety or corner position as teams will have to respect the talent of GONZO. 3] I think our pass blocking is the best in the league and far superior to what the RAMS had last year.

Also I believe you're under the impression that TRENT is injury prone. He has struggled with rehabbing his knee properly but prior to 99' he has no history of injuries outside the norm of any NFL QB.

KCPHILLY
06-16-2001, 08:18 PM
DENVER 11-5/12-4
All three 1000 yd. rushers healthy or close to it is incredible debth. BEURLEIN is the best back up QB in the league if GREISE goes down again. RHODES will bring intensity to their D but only a slight improvement in talent. One of the weakest schedules in the NFL.

OAKLAND 9-7/10-6
Even with the addition of RICE their passing game won't improve much. Still no deep threat and no arm to go deep. GARNER will not be happy with his limited role. ARMSTRONG will be an FA bust. He's a situational player only and averaged 5 sacks a year in the 5 years prior to last year [his FA showcase]. The RAIDERS had the "perfect" season last year. The bounces went their way and they stayed relatively injury free while enjoying a weak schedule. Those seasons rarely happen consecutively. Schedule is more difficult.

CHIEFS 8-8/10-6
Our D will be improved but still not up to post-season standards. Our O will be exciting but will endure a 3-4 game learning curve. Our special teams will show signs of being special again. Most difficult schedule in the division but 10-6 is a possibility if everything goes right. On our way up.

SEATTLE 7-9/8-8
D is improved but O will struggle with young recievers and a QB who has never started a regular season game. Middle of the road schedule won't be enough to compensate. On their way up. Should be competitive in NFCW in 2002 and beyond.

SAN DIEGO 6-10/7-9
FLUTIE will bring excitement but age is showing. Had a great off season but still questions on O. Weak schedule but still not ready for prime time. On their way up.

nickman
06-17-2001, 12:56 AM
1. Denver 11-5 Griese gets hurt and Beurlein although expected to be a great backup has trouble jelling with the team.

2. Oakland 10-6 Gannon hurt and runs out of gas.

3. Seattle 8-8 Holmgren is a great coach and he has improved the team. They will lose a couple they might of won because of mistakes by Hasselback.

4. KC- 7-9 Vermiel's teams have struggled his first year and even his second. We are further along than the other two so we will not go backwards. Green will not make it through the whole year, Holmes will not be the answer, nor will Richardson. Our first round pick next year will again be a back to attempt to end the eternal search for a long term running back.

5. SD 5-11 Better team but a tough division.

As far as our supposed running back by committee.. I do not think it was ever by design. I don't think we ever had a coach (with the possible exception of Gunther) that chose this as a offensive approach. Stram had a committee during the super bowl years but I think he was unsure that Garrett or McVea could handle the beating at 175 to 185 pounds. Then he had Podolak who was his feature back but never had the speed or moves to handle all the types carries necessary in a offense. We have tried numerous draft choices, retreads and free agents to solve this problem. It just seems like we don't really have any luck in getting a back that can carry the load for any length of time. Reed had a thousand yard year but got hurt, Delaney set the world on fire but was hurt and then drown, Palmer and Ethan Horton never had it... That is my take on the RBCC. I hope someday we get a back that can carry the load for more than one or two years. We are due for a Emmitt Smith or Sweetness type horse.....

Chiefs Pantalones
06-17-2001, 02:37 AM
Geez, nickman! And I thought Proctor was depressing?!:eek:

CG

:p

CanadaKC
06-17-2001, 10:05 AM
The Chiefs will make the playoffs...riding on the backs of Tony Gonzalez (who's in a contract year)...and Derrick Alexander.
You have made your predictions without waiting to see what players the Chiefs might acquire after July 1st. Vermeil will have this team prepared, they won't quit on him like they did on Gunther last year, and will pleasantly suprise. A wildcard berth.

Recker24
06-17-2001, 10:16 AM
Kansas City finishes 9-7, with a ball bounces the wrong way from finishing 10-6. Trent Green has a solid year at QB, and hushes the critics. The man has never been hurt in his career, other than the cheap shot. Priest Homes and Tony Richardson make for an excellent duo in the backfield, with Holmes leading the way with 1,145 yards. Our defense plays erratic football. All year we don't know if one of the best attacking defenses in the league is going to show up, or possibly the worst. All and all a solid year with a 9-7 record, and a playoff birth.
***Blaylock will hardly see 5 carries this season, Todd Collins won't see the field, and Vermeil will coach 3 years before handing the ball over to Al Saunders.

JOhn
06-17-2001, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by KCJohnny


JOhn: we lost last year to SF and SD on the road. And us win in Florida????? Hello??? I hope we can defend Arrowhead as well as Gun...and better. This team will not win 5 road games next year, although I would LOVE that!



Your right, we lost to SD. But that was with the ancient one at the helm. Do you really believe that with the talent on this team, we will let them embarass us again like that? Besides which you no longer have JR & MS there to blow a game.

SF, yep was a loss there, but we were out played by a better QB/RB. It happens and that loss was one of those that you can never predict. But I don't see them on the schedule this year either.


Yes a florida win. We came very close to it last year in preseason, and again we have a DIFFERENT coaching staff, and I for one do have some confidence in them. Several games last year against very good teams wee lost by bad luck, bad calls and bad coaching (most), Indy, Tenn, NE and Jack. Sorry but I look on the bright side that it won't happen again.

I like to look at a glass has 1/2 full....

JOhn
(not sure who the pessimist is impersonating KCJ)

FYI, I will remember to Quote you on the "team will not win 5 road games " :D

California Injun
06-17-2001, 11:41 AM
How about some "ridiculously early NFC East predictions."?

I'm sure you've got a pulse on that division...

Cannibal
06-17-2001, 12:26 PM
I think I'll puke if we go 9-7, or even 10-6 and you fans are happy with it. I am soooo tired of this team being mediocre.

KCJohnny,

I really don't give two sh1ts what the Chiefs history is regarding RBBC. What I'm tired of is your obsession with it. Please stop mentioning it in everyone of your posts. It is a flawed system is todays game. Maybe you could win a championship w/ it in the 60's and early 70's, but that is no longer the case. So just because you want them to use it doesn't mean they will. Vermiel has already stated that he wants 1 guy to get the majority of the carries.

Do you think Marty should split the carries between Donnell Bennet and Stephen Davis? I am sure you do...

"FFFFFFFFFFFFFFF" running back by committee!!!!!!!!

Cannibal
06-17-2001, 12:31 PM
To expand on my first point in reply # 25...

Why are Chiefs fans always so happy w/ 9-7?

I've noticed for the last 3 years since I've been on these BB's. It is simply amazing to me.

I think 9-7 sucks balls! Even if it is Vermiel's first year here. I'll be pissed if do anything less than 11-5 and win a playoff game.

I'm tired of the mediocrity.

KCJohnny
06-17-2001, 02:11 PM
KCPhilly:
I don't think Green is injury prone. I think he is sack prone. He averages being sacked once every 10 attempts. That comes out to about 54 sacks in a 16 game season, not including getting hit after he delivers the ball. I hope to heaven he stays healthy, but let's face it, getting thumped 54 times behind the LOS is not a god way to keep your QB healthy. If Green stays healthy for 16 games, he is the AFC's starting QB in Hawaii.

Cannibal: Please show me in any thread from anywhere where I said that I WANTED RBbC. What you don't want to face is that coaches as distinguished as Stram, Levy and Schottenheimer were not able to conquer this beast either. Vermiel has said this and that, but we will just have to see. In the meantime, feel free to ignore my mentions of Chiefs history.

I think the Bolts could win the Division. They don't need a lot of offense to win games. Tomlinson and Flutie are big upgrades over last years backfield. They have a really good TE, to. Norv Turner will get max input from their offense and since they are playing a 1-15 schedule. Stranger things have happened in this age of parity!

Happy father's day, Dads!
KCJ

Cannibal
06-17-2001, 02:29 PM
Levy and Schottenheimer have never won a championship and when Stram did, it was a different game. You cannot win a championship the committee in today's game.


BTW, Levy prefers to utilize one dominant rusher i.e. Thurman Thomas.

You do WANT RBBC, I know you do. You'll be a happy camper if Vermiel does decide to use it, for some reason you are just obessed with it.

KCJohnny
06-17-2001, 02:53 PM
All due respect, Cannibal, but you have no idea what I mean or what I want.
KCJ

Cannibal
06-17-2001, 03:37 PM
KCJ after week 1

Hey dudes Cloud racked up 9 yards on 3 carries, Holmes gained 30 yards on 13,TRich amassed a whopping 15 yards on 4 carries, Moreau gained 15 on 7 carries and Blaylock gained 4 yards on 1 carry...

Don't you just love RBBC, it works great doesn't it?

We’re going deep into the playoffs this year with our running game!

I can’t wait, the committee rules!

ck_IN
06-17-2001, 03:45 PM
Cannibal, I don't think you have to worry about RBbC. I fully expect Rich/Holmes to get ~80% of the carries.

I also expect Green to play all 16 games. However I do expect him to be so beaten up that he'll not be as effective as we need. Hopefully he'll learn to get rid of the ball, but he certainly hasn't learned it yet.

Cannibal
06-17-2001, 03:51 PM
I don't think we'll be using RBBC this year either, I'm just giving John "Committee Lover" Proctor some sh1t :)

ck_IN
06-17-2001, 04:06 PM
You might want to cut John some slack. Some of his offensive concerns are valid.

Green is sack prone and does hold the ball too long. That's suicide in the AFC West. And the man simply didn't impress me that much at D.C or St. Louis.

I haven't followed Holmes closely but it was my impression that he was a 3rd down back, not a feature back. Therefore his signing seems quite odd.

Lastly I don't think we have the WR talent to run this O effectively. DA is our only real deep threat and he's not a classic burner.

Cannibal
06-17-2001, 04:13 PM
The only thing I bagged on him for was his precious committee.

nickman
06-18-2001, 08:51 AM
Cody, I am not as depressed as it sounds.. Last year I was confident after looking at the schedule that we would go at least 10-6. After Gunthers first year and despite the fact that nothing he said made sense to me, the team performed fairly well abiet inconsistent and schizo at times. It turns out the schizo was because Gunther was this and they fell on hard times. I am trying to be glum about this so my hopes will not be high and then possibly dashed.

Mile High Mania
06-18-2001, 09:36 AM
I like the early predictions, but I have a question.
You state it's the end of this tough division... but, you have Seattle at #5 in the division.

So, if we remove the weakest link... wouldn't that make us stronger as a division?

I will miss Seattle, but I don't think that their abscense will bring down the quality of the division at all. That's not smack, but they have only really been a threat one year in the last 5 or 6, right?

I think they'll be 7 or 8 wins this year, it all hinges on the QB. KC could hit 9 wins. San Diego could hit 6 or 7. But, Denver and Oakland will be the 10 win teams and battle to the final week for the division crown.

htismaqe
06-18-2001, 01:02 PM
I agree, MileHigh...

I think losing Seattle, overall, makes the division tighter and stronger. They may be good this year and the next few, but historically, they bring the rest of the division down...

No offense, Joe...

TEX
06-18-2001, 02:16 PM
1. Donx
2. Raiders
3. Hawks
4. Chiefs
5. Bolts

The bottom two could flip flop and I wouldn't be surprised. The Donx are the class of the West and have a legit shot to win it all.
The Raiders have slipped. Holmgren has his QB this year and the players are familiar with his system. The Bolts are much improved. It's not good for the Chiefs.

MrBlond
06-18-2001, 02:23 PM
1) Raiders
2) Chiefs
3) Broncos
4) Seahawks
5) Chargers

HC_Chief
06-18-2001, 02:46 PM
<i>Green is sack prone and does hold the ball too long. That's suicide in the AFC West. And the man simply didn't impress me that much at D.C or St. Louis</i>

Again, 240 passes, 145 completions (61%) for 2100 yards, 16 TDs passing, 1 TD rushing and only 5 INTs (102 rating) is <i>not</i> impressive? All of this without Marshall Faulk and with a shaky OL?!

What, exactly, does it take to impress some of you people?

KCPHILLY
06-18-2001, 10:05 PM
He averages being sacked once every 10 attempts. That comes out to about 54 sacks in a 16 game season, not including getting hit after he delivers the ball.

You rely to heavily on stats. I have 1 for you. GREEN has been sacked 0 times behind the CHIEFS OL. GREEN has a quicker release than GRBAC. When is the last time the CHIEFS OL gave up 54 sacks? I also think you will find GREEN is a tougher Hombre' than ELVIS. You talk about all the sacks he has given up but he has managed only ONE major injury in his career and that came on a late hit cheap shot.

I am willing to place any wager with you that the CHIEFS OL DOES NOT give up anything CLOSE to 54 sacks... Ain't gonna happen.

Rausch
06-19-2001, 12:01 AM
Anyway, back to the topic...



I think the worst team in our division will finish 7-9 or 8-8.....I think It will pan out DENVER, SAN DIEGO, OAKLAND, KC, Seattle.....


I'm not buying into Seattle's hype. Holmy has done nothing great other than keep Watter's ego in check. Ok, that's a pretty big accomplishment, BUT what else have they done? Their splash will come against the Cardinals and the Lambs....

Denver overpayed but with a healthy Greasy should take the division by a game or two.

San Diego is only two seasons removed from having the best division record. Wheelihan was at qb then, I don't even know if that guy is playing football now. Tomlinson is a stud, and Flutie is a short and often overachieving winner. The last word in that sentence is all that matters. They also have a cake schedule, and God forbid what might happen if they actually start off 3-2 or 3-1!

The Raiders, well, didn't do much to impress me. Gannon is a year older, and although they did pick up Garner, Gruden will probably underutilize his as he did Nappy Kauffman. Third place, behind the Chargers.

aturnis
06-19-2001, 01:24 AM
Although most of us look at these predictions as ludicras and random placings pull out of his arse.....I'm not so sure. The Chargers and the Seahawks will flat out suck...sorry Joe. Denver, although good....will IMO lose both to KC, and at least one if not both to Oakland. Though they may swap places with the Raiders at #1. Along with Denver, I think the Raiders will either give up both to the Chiefs or split. The Chiefs will sweep San Diego and Seattle...again, sorry Joe. Although it completely contradicts what I just stated, I think the Chiefs will at most lose 4 divisional games and 3 non. giving us a 12-4 or 11-5 record.

aturnis
06-19-2001, 01:30 AM
In reading my last post....I realize that I sound like an idiot thinking we could sweep our division......which I know we won't. We should only lose to Denver and Oakland though. Looking at our schedule, I can even see a 7-0 start........

Rausch
06-19-2001, 05:12 AM
Aturnis,

man, I must not be reading the same schedule...



RAIDERS-To think we'll do better than split after losing Hasty and implementing a new offense, man that's nuts. They're as good as they were last year, and at best we're one step better. I don't see us winning either one.....Start 0-1

At Seattle....On the road these guys have been tough lately. However, weakest team in our division and I think this is the team to sweep if any. 1-1

NY Giants- Great D, A matured Collins and the Thunder/lightning combo against our probable poor run defense....Easy call.....1-2

Redskins at Wash- Get real, like Marty isn't DREAMING Of this game already. He's taken overachievers to the playoffs almost every year. 1-3

AT DENVER- I think we'll split with them, but I don't think we win this one....Griese will probably be healthy and we won't get the back up this time.
1-4

Pittsburgh-Only prime time game of the year really. I thik we'll get pumped up and beat a more talented team. Plus Kordell sucks.....2-4

At Arizona-at least after all the tough games we get a gimme.......3-4

3-4 is a losing record, but I'd be satisfied if we finished 8-8....I just don't see it looking at the schedule...Who makes our's anyway, GREASY AL!?!?!?

MrBlond
06-19-2001, 07:14 AM
Brad,

When you label the 2001 Chiefs run defense as probably poor, I think you discount the "stooge effect" too much. Clemons, Hicks, Browning, and Williams are active, fast linemen who can make plays sideline to sideline with the speed to chase down runners. Edwards, Patton, and Cadrez again are quick LBs who all have topped the 100 tackle mark. Maz? may be the best of the bunch. Woods and Wesley are excellent in run support. In the end I think the improvement comes from the scheme. The loss of Kurt is addition by subtraction. I can see 5-2 in those first 7 games, with losses to Oakland and @ Denver.

Mile High Mania
06-19-2001, 08:02 AM
Aturnis...

It's early and I've only had 1 cup of coffee, but in one of your recent posts you state that KC should "at most" lose 4 divisional and 3 non-div games, giving you guys an 11 or 12 win season.

Wouldn't those numbers add up to 7 losses... meaning at the most you could win 9 games? Maybe I missed something.

htismaqe
06-19-2001, 08:29 AM
I do agree with Caudle on one thing...

It could very well be two or three games that separates 1st place from 5th place next year...

KCJohnny
06-19-2001, 09:41 AM
KCPhilly:

First of all, Green may have a quicker release than Elvis (that would be difficult to prove) but Grbac's excellent footwork, quick deep drops and 1-handed play action fakes are all better than Green's and contributed to his stellar sack-to-attemp ratio as much as the Chiefs OL play which allowed Warren Moon to get wasted in the only game Grbac did not start.

Last time a Chiefs QB was sacked 50+ times was in 1992 when Dave Kreig was dropped 52 times. The amazing thing was that Kreig was the only NFL QB to take every snap for his team that year. But let's be honest, Kreig was just like Green with holding the ball too long, getting hurried and sacked, and fumbled frequently. That doesn't mean that Green will have to fumble a lot, but I think 40-45 sacks is very reasonable given his career totals.

And where do you guys get off accusing the Rams OL of being shaky????? How in the hell does any offense break the all time record for total offense with a 'shaky' OL???? Hello????

FTR:
The Chiefs WILL win in Arrowhead on opening day. Write it down. It may be 9-6 (Remember the Raiders opener against the lowly Bolts last year? Or in '98 when we pounded them 28-8?) or it may be 37-34 given the nature of our team, but the CHIEFS will NOT surrender to Arrowhead advantage to the Hated Raidas. If the Chiefs lose AT home to the Fiaders, I will personally lead the screaming mob into Dick Vermiel's office...

KCJ
Better watch them Bolts, I'm tellin' ya...

Otter
06-19-2001, 10:01 PM
Denver – Lots of depth and talent all around. If there are no long-term effects on Griese’s shoulder they’ll be on top of the AFC West. (10-6)

Seattle – The walrus’s third year becomes a charm. The upgrading on defense and depth at running back make up for Hasselbeck’s growing pains. (9-7)

Kansas City – Considering the tough schedule and all the new personal they do pretty good. Peterson drafts a RB first round and wises enough to take advantage of all the offensive minded personal and gets a project QBOTF in the late rounds as well. (8-8)

Oakland – Jerry Rice signing bombs and they loose Rich “crazy legs” Gannon to injury. The former problems plus the league’s vengeance from big Al’s attempt to sue the NFL results in fines, numerous penalties and over-all disruption throughout the team. (6-10)

San Diego – Considering they were 1-15 last year not too shabby. Flutie wins 2 games in his “comeback kid” style and Tomelson (sp?) and the defense lets them hang onto a couple early leads. (6-10)

Close race this year.

By the way, I’m saving the post before it goes gets purged so try to get your votes in for the end of the season so we can see who has ESP.

KCPHILLY
06-19-2001, 10:41 PM
but Grbac's excellent footwork, quick deep drops and 1-handed play action fakes are all better than Green's and contributed to his stellar sack-to-attemp ratio as much as the Chiefs OL play which allowed Warren Moon to get wasted in the only game Grbac did not start.

Understand this... I was never a GRBASHER. I supported ELVIS 100%. I hated how he was treated by the fans and certain members of the press and always defended him.

That said, the only thing ELVIS did to contribute to a low sack total last year was throw the ball away. He has below average speed and quickness and average to above play action. The only thing that comes close to "stellar" about ELVIS is his arm strenght. GREEN will prove to have more speed and quickness this year.

MOON was terrible in his one start. The BOLTS blitzed us early and often. MOON was shell shocked and couldn't hit the broad side of my ex-mother-in-law. Using his performance as a barometer is futile.

So you've dropped your sack estimate from 54 to 40-45? ... I say no way we even give up 40. :cool:

milkman
06-19-2001, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by KCJohnny
CHIEFS will NOT surrender to Arrowhead advantage to the Hated Raidas. If the Chiefs lose AT home to the Fiaders, I will personally lead the screaming mob into Dick Vermiel's office...

KCJ

So Johnny,
Can you send me a copy of the news clipping that relates the story about how you led the screaming mob into Goonther's office.

The Bad Guy
06-19-2001, 11:31 PM
Proctor writes:The Chiefs WILL win in Arrowhead on opening day. Write it down. It may be 9-6 (Remember the Raiders opener against the lowly Bolts last year? Or in '98 when we pounded them 28-8?) or it may be 37-34 given the nature of our team, but the CHIEFS will NOT surrender to Arrowhead advantage to the Hated Raidas. If the Chiefs lose AT home to the Fiaders, I will personally lead the screaming mob into Dick Vermiel's office...

Funny, I don't remember you leading the charge into 1 Arrowhead Drive when Gunther dropped the biggest game of 1999 to the Faiders at home to get us in the playoffs, nor do I recall you charging in there after Janikowski hit that game winning field goal.

I guess it's a double standard. When Gunther messed up, excuses were made. If Vermeil messes up after his FIRST game as Chiefs head coach then people want his head.

How did Gunther do in his first game? Oh yeah he lost to Chicago.

Rausch
06-20-2001, 12:48 AM
Sorry KCJ, But I disagree too....


I have no idea how we beat the Raiders this year. It just won't happen. If Gannon gets hurt, and wheatley is out, might happen. If Rice and Rison are caught in a "massage parlor" enjoying the pleasure a few Asian ladies might offer, might happen. If Riley DIDN'T try to Road Rage the Mrs. and their child to never never land, AND Gruden gets another DWI, it MIGHT happen.

Hasty, Neil Smith, Marty, our dominant defense, the insecurity and lack of heart of the Raiders, and DT(RIP man) are all gone from this team. What caused us to own the Faiders is no more.



Sometimes the bad guys just win every now and again....:(

KCJohnny
06-20-2001, 08:46 AM
Now listen guys, YOU are the ones invoking a double standard.

It is YOU (Frank, Philly, and the rest- you know who you are) who are in one breath insulting Gunther, calling him 'Goonther', criticizing his every move, calling him incompetent, etc... and in the NEXT breath, saying how DV, Al S and Greg R all have SB rings, are superior in every way to the '3 stooges' (your words, not mine), etc...

Now, if DV is Sooooooooooo much greater, and Gun was sooooooo bad, why are you so scared in standing behind DV in the season opener???? And why are predicting 6-10/8-8 (actually worse than Gun)??????

You guys are the ones using the double standard. If DV is as superior as you say, stop taking cover behind all the excuses (each using the word 'new' somewhere in the explanation) and hold the standard up higher than 'the 2nd lowest paid coach in the NFL.' If DV is ALL THAT you should be predicting AT LEAST a 10 win season, seeing Gunther won 9 in his first season as head coach of anything with the '3 stooges.'

Sorry, guys, you can't have it both ways.

KCJ

PS: Grbac's lack of sacks is DIRECTLY attributable to the Raye system (7-step drops) and Grbac's speed in getting back in the pocket and setting up...something we probably won't see too much of in the Saunders/Green scheme....

HC_Chief
06-20-2001, 08:51 AM
<i>Grbac's speed in getting back in the pocket and setting up...</i>

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Grbac....speed... hahahahaha

You musta hit your head on a few rocks in Korea

KCTitus
06-20-2001, 10:06 AM
The question you have to ask yourself is, had Gunther and the other stooges still been the staff in KC, would any of us even be talking 8-8 (Im saying at least 9-7 given the tough schedule)?

No way...let's get real, here, Proctor. 6-10 maybe with Goonther and stooges at the helm. The staff alone makes this a much better team.

MrBlond
06-20-2001, 10:12 AM
For the record I have been predicting 11-5 since Vermeil was hired. 1 more win from an upgrade at Head Coach, 1 more win from an upgrade at Defensive Coordinator, 1 more win from an upgrade at Offensive Coordinator, 1 more win from an upgrade in Special Teams coaching. Coaching at each of these positions directly lead to at least one loss each.

NaptownChief
06-20-2001, 10:12 AM
KCJ,

I have to agree with you...Everyone that was saying how bad GOONTHAR and the stooges were yet you are only predicting a 7-9 to 8-8 type of season doesn't quite make sense...

I for one agree that our previous coaching staff cost us at least 3 wins and believe that we will go 10-6 or 11-5 on the coaching changes alone...

MrBlond
06-20-2001, 10:17 AM
KCJ,

Looking at your predictions I see that you think we will go 8-8. That is an improvement over Gun and the Stooges 7-9 season last year. It appears that you also agree that the Ramization of the Chiefs improves our record. Interesting

milkman
06-20-2001, 10:23 AM
I personally think it's far to early to predict the team's record for the upcoming season.

However, if you were to put a gun to my head, I would predict a 10 win season, based on the ideas

That DV/AS will find a way to get more balance in the offense.

That the Chiefs D will be far better that anyone expects, because the spineless jelleyfish stooge had no idea how to to utilize the talent that has been there in the last 2 seasons.

That the special teams will be far better than Stock's STs, because he had no clue what he was doing.

If Goonther were still at the helm, I would be predicting a 4 win season.

KCPHILLY
06-20-2001, 09:41 PM
I agree with many others here. If GUN was still at the helm I don't think I could predict more than 3 wins. 1 over the CARDS and 2 over the BRONCOS. GUN had their # and they were the only team he could gameplan against successfully. The fact is he lost this team last year and this coming season would be a disaster if he was still HC with the same staff.

As far as the GRBAC statement. Obviously you're convinced of it so it doesn't matter what anyone says. I think this season will be a learning experience for you.

I do feel for you though... Those ELVIS colored glasses have blinded you.

KCJohnny
06-21-2001, 06:38 PM
KCPhilly:

I admire your honesty and candor in admitting to the inconsistency some have held here re: Gun/DV. Thanks for being honest!

Everyone:
I WAS in favor of firing Gunther (those of you who were regs on the StarBB know this) and I WAS in favor of replacing Stock and Kurt.

I was NOT in favor of the wholesale importing of another team's entire organizational personality. Big deal!!!! That's my opinion!

I think it is very prejudiced to say Gun would have finished 4-12. FWIW, He has the 3rd highest winning % in Chiefs history.

The Chiefs were not bad, they were just not consistently good. I think the more reasonable among us would agree on that. A vet staff like the new one should bring some consistency, but the players on the field still have to execute the scheme.

Mr. Blond, yeah man, BIG improvement, 8-8 over 7-9...


KCJ
I stand by my predictions...

KCJohnny
06-21-2001, 06:48 PM
Jl80:

I admire your honesty and candor in admitting to the inconsistency some have held here re: Gun/DV. Thanks for being honest!

Everyone:
I WAS in favor of firing Gunther (those of you who were regs on the StarBB know this) and I WAS in favor of replacing Stock and Kurt.

I was NOT in favor of the wholesale importing of another team's entire organizational personality. Big deal!!!! That's my opinion!

I think it is very prejudiced to say Gun would have finished 4-12. FWIW, He has the 3rd highest winning % in Chiefs history.

The Chiefs were not bad, they were just not consistently good. I think the more reasonable among us would agree on that. A vet staff like the new one should bring some consistency, but the players on the field still have to execute the scheme.

Mr. Blond, yeah man, BIG improvement, 8-8 over 7-9...


KCJ
I stand by my predictions...

California Injun
06-21-2001, 08:25 PM
Proctor,

GONE:

Your starting QB (Grbac)
Your run stuffer (Chester)
Your best DB (Hasty)
Your All-Pro center (Grunhard)
Your best 3rd down back (Anders)
Cream puff schedule

IN:

New QB (Green)
Run stuffer (???)
New DB (Crockett)
New Center ('ol whathisname)
3rd down back (Holmes?)
New staff
New offensive scheme.
Killer schedule

Is it starting to come into focus for you why an 8-8 or 9-7 finish is BETTER than last years abomination?

"3rd highest winning % for Goonther"

Hmm.... Lesse here

Paul Wiggin
Tom Bettis
John Mackovic
Frank Ganz
Marv Levy

Outside of Levy, who had teams so horrible he went with the Winged T, those other coaches should be up for the Hall of Fame balloting any year now.

Nice statistical crunching to prove your points....

KCPHILLY
06-22-2001, 12:13 AM
Kcphilly: I admire your honesty and candor in admitting to the inconsistency some have held here re: Gun/DV. Thanks for being honest!

:confused: :confused:

The Bad Guy
06-22-2001, 12:37 AM
Proctor writes:
I was NOT in favor of the wholesale importing of another team's entire organizational personality. Big deal!!!! That's my opinion!

I think it is very prejudiced to say Gun would have finished 4-12. FWIW, He has the 3rd highest winning % in Chiefs history.

I love how you put a stat spin on everything Johnny.

So basically Gunther goes .500 over two seasons, and you try to make a case because he has the 3rd highest winning percentage in the organizations history.

That stat means jack to me. All that means is that the Chiefs have employed some lousy head coaches with the exception of Schottenheimer, Stram and Marv Levy.

Next we will hear about Raye having the 8th best offense stat wise in the league yadda yadda yadda. Stats tell half the story, the other half is told during those 3 hours you watch the game.

Gunther had talent on this roster, it's unfortunate that he never was organized enough to manage it.

However, I'm pleased that things turned out the way they did. Our offense will finally have an identity. Playcalling won't be so predictable that Stevie Wonder knows what is coming, and we might actually see a REAL gameplan on the field every Sunday.

If Goonther was still here, we would still have cap problems, and we would suck next year on top of that.

In 6 months with Vermeil, he cleaned up our cap problems, weeded through the problems on the roster, found a leader at quarterback, added some quality depth at need positions and finally has the respect of the team, which is something the Chiefs lost in Gunther when he almost quit on them after week 2 last year.

I can't speak for everyone. But if I'm bustin my tail in a training camp for 3 weeks, and preparing all year for a season, and my coach almost turns his back on me after just two weeks into something, then I refuse to give it my all for that guy again. I think this is what the players did to Gunther last year. Gunther was a coward for wanting to walk out on the team last year.

Good riddance Gun. You can have the third highest win % in this organization, but your tenure with the club made me miserable on many Sundays.

Rausch
06-22-2001, 06:37 AM
I know you're busy defending attacks from everyone else here, but did you even notice or read my post?


Just curious....

MrBlond
06-22-2001, 07:35 AM
KCJ,

I really am not trying to pile on. But you DID predict an improved record. I am asking you WHY will our record be better this year (no matter how small) in your opinion? You have stated among other things that..KC has sold out the smash-mouth/great defense philosophy that historicly has made us great. Brought in a HC, that has been burnt out, retired twice, has barely a .500 record, didnt want Faulk, and relied more on offense than defense. Brought in a DC that presided over the worst run defense in the league and maybe in history. Brought in a QB that gets sacked 1 out of every 10 times, is unproven, injury-prone, and has a slow release. Concentrated on improving an already potent offense while disregarding a poor defense in the off-season. Did I miss any of your complaints this off-season? Add all these missteps up, and you feel we are better. WHY?

kcred
06-22-2001, 08:29 AM
I have tried to refrain from posting on this subject, because as the title implies, it is ridiculously early. Evidence of that can be readily seen this week, with Morris going down. As training camp and the preseason winds down, I think we should have a better overview of the division, the AFC in general, and so forth. However, I will comment on the debate about GC and DV. DV is a proven winner, I was against hiring GC from day one, and never changed my opinion. If we had brought in a new coaching staff two years ago, we would have at least been in the playoffs the first year. I do believe GC got the ultimate out of his team the first year, I believe they actually overachieved that year, and were only a player or two, from the playoffs. A new coaching staff, I think would have found that player or two. Last year was a complete debacle. As stated earlier, these players who believed in GC, in 99, gave up on him early in 00. And it wasn't just after the Titans game. Every time he opened his mouth in TC, he contradicted himself, and though I agree, preseason is just that, preseason, this team looked terrible. For all those reasons, I am looking forward to 01. I don't think this is the year we will win it all, but as in DVs previous stints, he is tearing down the team to advance in a year or two. Remember his comments after the SB, there were very few players from his first year. And it does take time with drafting, FAs, and all the cap ramifications. Do we have a better team on the field, I don't know, but I believe we have a coaching staff with a blueprint for success.

California Injun
06-22-2001, 09:11 AM
Mr. Blond,

This ".500 coach" has been to two Super Bowls. Burned out or not, he is a 1,000% improvement over that other .500 coach that just left.

"Sacked 1 out of 10, slow release, and injury prone" Tell me the difference between Grbac and Green?

Grbac did not get sacked that much because he pulled down the ball and started his run-slowly-to-the-sidelines-hope-my-WR-breaks-off-his-pattern scampers he's all too famous for. Since his collar bones got snapped, Elvis had no patience in the pocket. Green will hang in there to let his receivers actually complete thier patterns, OR..... look for a secondary receiver???

After watching Mr. Tunnel Vision toss the ball into triple coverage, Green will be a pleasure to watch.

The defensive woes got worse because our cap sucked. How can you sign top notch talent with no money? Besides, the QB (Green) and the RB (Holmes) are a necessity to operate this type of scheme. Would you be happy with Collins/Brister running this "O" for the sake of signing two defensman?

Finally, this years team will actually PLAY for its coach. The 2000 team quit on Gunther.

HUGE difference in ability to win games.

MrBlond
06-22-2001, 09:18 AM
Cal-Injun,

I agree all the way. Those have been KCJohnny's complaints and yet he predicts an improved record. I want to know why he says they have backtracked and yet thinks their record will improve. Even with what is considered a tougher schedule.

KCPHILLY
06-22-2001, 02:46 PM
Excellent read. The only thing I disagree with is I don't think we overachieved in 99'. No doubt the team rallied around GUN and left it on the field with the exception of the last few games. But if you remember, we were a team that was predicted by many to go deep into the playoffs in 98' before SHOTT lost the team. I think the Coaching change was a fresh change and gave a # of players renewed energy through most of the season, but began to erode towards the end of the 99' campaign.

kcred
06-22-2001, 02:59 PM
Philly- won't debate the overachievement, but still should have made the playoffs. Opening game, Chicago Bears, that might have been the worst coached game in NFL history. Oh well, he's gone, now onto bigger and better things.

KCJohnny
06-22-2001, 03:27 PM
Brad:

I DID read your reply and I agree 100%.

Frank:

In 6 months with Vermeil, he cleaned up our cap problems, weeded through the problems on the roster, found a leader at quarterback, added some quality depth at need positions and finally has the respect of the team, which is something the Chiefs lost in Gunther when he almost quit on them after week 2 last year.

The Chiefs are the 3rd worst team in the NFL for 'dead dollars', paying $19 mil to players no longer on the roster. Some job of cleaning up the cap.

Where is all this 'proof' that the team quit on Cunningham in week 2? Beginning week three, the team's record was 7-7. At least I offer actual statistics and not just rumor and subjective feeling or the planet party line. Where is this proof??? Maybe you don't like stats because its hard to argue against evidence with mere intimations and feelings.


Calinjun:


Finally, this years team will actually PLAY for its coach. The 2000 team quit on Gunther.

Again, some evidence? Some proof?

I agree all the way. Those have been KCJohnny's complaints and yet he predicts an improved record. I want to know why he says they have backtracked and yet thinks their record will improve. Even with what is considered a tougher schedule.

The Chiefs will improve because the coaching will be better. satisfied now? The problem with all you guys is, you say DV/AS/GR are all SB ring wearers and can out coach Gun/Raye/Kurt but are predicting identical records to the '00 Chiefs. The topic of the thread IS predictions, after all. I think that's pretty weak. JMO.

"Sacked 1 out of 10, slow release, and injury prone" Tell me the difference between Grbac and Green?

Grbac was sacked only 25 times in 547 attempts. That is less than 5% of his total attempts, and he made those 547 attempts in an offense that, according to YOU, was so predictable that anyone watching knew what was going to happen next. Well, geeeez, if that's true, why wasn't Grbac sacked 70x with 30 INTs??????

KCJ

htismaqe
06-22-2001, 03:44 PM
John,

The cap problem isn't totally clean, yet, but it's at least being addressed. It's not "business as usual" around Arrowhead anymore.

I think from what's been said by Bill Maas, Anders, and many others since this all shook down, it's safe to say that Gun didn't garner much respect from the team last year, especially after the Indy game.

More than that, Gunther was a raving lunatic. Half of the time you couldn't understand what he was trying to get at, the other half he was blaming someone else for his problems...

I won't miss the guy...

Not everything has to be backed up by stats...

keg in kc
06-22-2001, 04:10 PM
John, two things.

1) It's a bit unfair to blame the dead money issue on Vermeil. That issue is completely attributable to bad cap management and bad player personnel decisions by both Carl Peterson and the Chiefs front office (including, IMO, previous coaching staffs). We have already saved upwards of 7 million dollars on next year's cap thanks to the moves made to this point in the offseason.

You might as well blame me for the problems that I've found in my new house since I moved in, even though I had absolutely nothing to do with creating any of them; I can only do my best to fix what I've inherited...

2) I think there is ample evidence for a breakdown in team morale. You will doubtless try to pawn it off as rumor, speculation, subjective opinion or the so-called "planet party line" (whatever the heck that is...) but evidence is this:#1. Gunther told his team he contemplated quitting early in the season. This is not rumor, this is a substantiated fact. While I cannot prove this had any effect on the team morale, points #2 and #3 give some evidence that I believe seem to indicate that not all way as it should be a 1 Arrowhead Drive.

#2. The team began 4-3 and then proceeded to fall into a 5 game losing streak during what was clearly the easiest part of the schedule. Furthermore, for the last 7 games of the season, we had a record of 2-5 against teams with a combined record of 42-70 last season (that's an average of 6-10 for each team).

#3. Statistically speaking, there is a clear difference between the play of the team during the first half of the season and the second half of the season. Literally, the team fell apart. Please see my earlier thread Stat Fun!! The 2000 Chiefs were Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde all the way... (http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?threadid=17102) for details of this.

#4. Several players publicly voiced displeasure with the coaching staff and the organization over the course of the season, with many issues seemingly "coming to a head" as the year came to a close.

#5. This is the most subjective reason I'll give, and I'll understand if it's discounted, but the entire Atlanta game (IMHO) was a demonstration of what a team will look like when it gives up on itself and on its coaching staff. That was one of the worst experiences I've ever had while watching a football game.

In other words, I think, in all fairness, there certainly is some evidence to consider when you ask the question of whether or not Gunther "lost" the team last year...

MrBlond
06-22-2001, 04:10 PM
KCJ,

"The Chiefs will improve because the coaching will be better. satisfied now? "

I will take this as your answer to my question. And I will agree 100%.

As for my prediction, I have predicted 11-5 (on this thread and others) since the day the coaching staff was completed. I arrived at this conclusion based on the same reasons you have. Coaching.

On a personel note, I never meant to put you on the defensive. It was not my intention to back you into a corner and admit you were wrong. I sincerly wanted to know why when you dismiss all changes made this off-season you predicted an improved record. Now I know.

The Bad Guy
06-22-2001, 04:20 PM
Proctor,

The Chiefs are the 3rd worst team in the NFL for 'dead dollars', paying $19 mil to players no longer on the roster. Some job of cleaning up the cap.

Where is all this 'proof' that the team quit on Cunningham in week 2? Beginning week three, the team's record was 7-7. At least I offer actual statistics and not just rumor and subjective feeling or the planet party line. Where is this proof??? Maybe you don't like stats because its hard to argue against evidence with mere intimations and feelings.

I don't care about stats that are meaningless like the ones you constantly refer to to make your arguments sound logical.

You keep pointing to a 8th rated offense, and the third highest winning percentage in team history to keep defending Goonther.

Stats mean jack when you finish 7-9.

Vermeil did clean up the cap. He can't help the 19 million in dead cap dollars. He fixed the 31 million dollar hole that Gun/CP got into. After this calender season, the 19 million in dead cap dollars will be gone. So yes, in essence in 6 months, Vermeil got rid of problem players, and managed to turn a 31 million dollar hole into a productive offseason that brought a new starting QB, C, RB, KR, CB, P and added solid depth at LB and Safety.

The 2000 team quit on Gunther. You don't have breakdowns against teams like the Falcons, 49ers, Chargers, and Patriots with the talent we had on the roster. Players like Grunny, and Hasty call this guy out after the season and your telling me everything appeared alright because he went 7-7? Maybe in your world mediocre play is acceptable, but as a diehard fan, I don't except the average.

At least I offer actual statistics and not just rumor and subjective feeling or the planet party line. Where is this proof??? Maybe you don't like stats because its hard to argue against evidence with mere intimations and feelings.

The only thing I've really seen you offer is your opinion that Trent Green will become injured, RBBC will stay alive, and a superiority complex because of your age over younger posters.

California Injun
06-22-2001, 08:42 PM
Proctor,

Grbac did not get sacked that often because of his tuck-n-roll methods to avoid them. Now this is a positive for him as well as a negative given his fear of getting injured again.

When the OL gave him plenty of time, then he ended up locking onto one receiver no matter the coverage. His best passing plays were off the play-fake with his primary being 1-2 steps beyond the defender.

Grbac is one of the best long ball QBs in the game. If the WR was open the Chiefs were in great shape. It was when his main receiver was covered that he got in trouble.

His brain farts were the result of never looking off his primary in crucial situations. Hence, he sees TonyG open over the middle against NE and "Damn the torpedos!" the pass is thrown.

Other QBs reload thinking "TonyG won't make it to the endzone" and make an alternate read. Hell, we can go back to the 14-10 loss to the Broncos and see the same thing.

Dawson had double coverage on that final play but Grbac throws it anyways because Lake was the primary.

Getting sacked is not the problem, getting injured when it happens is. I'll take Green holding onto the ball a few seconds longer if it means letting the receiver get a step on the DB or checking off to a back-up.

Man, I can't wait until 9/9/01!!!!!!!

Chiefs Pantalones
06-22-2001, 08:56 PM
Good points, Cali and Frank.



"Man, I can't wait until 9/9/01!!!!!!!"...

I here ya!!!!!!!!!

CG

GO CHIEFS!!!!



ps. I haven't made my prediction yet on what the Chiefs record will be/how they will do, because of things like what happened to SlyMo, I'm waiting until Training Camp (the middle; the end at the latest) to make my prediction or whenever I feel confident enough to do so. But I will say this, they already get an automatic 3 wins because of the MUCH IMPROVED coaching staff.

Until then...

soliday
06-22-2001, 09:41 PM
John Procter,

One thing I did want to say re: Green taking too many sacks. Yes, the number of sacks given up while Green started last year for StL was high, but look at the alternative of what Warner did, which was force the ball into coverage and throw a very high number of interceptions. Both of those were indicators of an offense with problems, and an offensive line allowing pressure. Personally, I'd much rather have a QB take a sack and punt the ball than have an INT and risk the field position, or a big play by the defense.

Soliday