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Skip Towne
06-16-2001, 08:42 PM
Is anybody watching the U.S. Open. Quite a battle brewing. AND it is in Tulsa. What a golf course. Any comment?

Herzig
06-16-2001, 09:53 PM
I was glued to the tourament today!!! What a show!! Ive had tickets for a year for Wednesday and Friday's rounds. It was awesome!!

Did Southern Hills get the best of Tiger?? I think this course doesnt suit him because the fairways are so narrow and tight..there are big trees everywhere, not to mention water, 7-10 feet traps, and sloping greens and fairways. I was so impressed with the difficulty of the course. There should be more tournaments held here!!!

Go Sergio!!!

Chiefs Pantalones
06-16-2001, 10:25 PM
I don't know that much about golf, but my a couple of my friends play it and they think that Tiger is overrated and inconsistent.

Is that true, or are they just jealous (I tell them they are:D)

nickman
06-16-2001, 10:32 PM
Southern Hills does get fairly regular events. 94 PGA, tour championship in 96 and 97 I believe. They only want the really big events. The course does not want a regular tour event there every year for some reason.

Herzig
06-16-2001, 10:42 PM
Cody,

I dont think that Tiger is overrated, he has a lot of talent. Im sick of seeing him win everything though. I dont think that Southern Hills suits his game. Tiger hits the ball extremely long and this course requires more touch and accuracy in the fairways.

Nickman- My parents went to the Tour Championship at Southern Hills in 96 when Lehman won. It is definitely a Championship course. I just think the US Open should be held there more than every 20 years or so.

milkman
06-16-2001, 10:58 PM
Greg,
I disagree. Every U.S. Open demands accuracy, and Tiger completly dominated last year's open.
Even with his poor driving and iron play, he'd still be in the hunt if he had just made a putt here and there.
His entire game this week has been inconsistent.

Cody,
Tiger is far from overrated. He has been the dominant player on the tour for the last 2 years, and hasn't reached his prime yet.

nickman
06-16-2001, 11:01 PM
Maybe it will now. After all it did come back in 5 years this time.

I attended the PGA in 94 and the tour championship in 96. Beautiful course.


During those years I was working for American Airlines in Tulsa and we tried numerous ways to get on the course to play. We did get on Tulsa Country Club which is a couple of steps below but never could find the right combination to get on Southern Hills. I heard a couple of years after I left a group of American employees did make it on for a round but on the third nine, Currently that area that is covered by tents.

nickman
06-16-2001, 11:09 PM
I agree with milkman.. I do not think he is overrated. He has won to much to be considered so. I also think this course is similar to the Augusta course in that it is a course that requires accuracy and good short game. He just looked off to me. I watched his very first shot off number one and it went into the crowd. I watched him hit the tee shot on three, four and five. He just never looked comfortable. They say he went back to the practice tee in the rain after it was called on Thur. I wish I had known that, it would have been better to watch him hit in the rain versus standing in mud with 100,000 other people being wacked with umbrella's. If that had of been a soccer game in South America or Africa 50 or so would have been dead... ha

Herzig
06-16-2001, 11:50 PM
milkman,

while I agree he is having an off-week(didnt have his "A" game :)), I do think that some of his struggles this week can be attributed to this course. It has a lot of slope and huge trees tightly lining the fairways. Players can end up in the middle of the fairway and have a bad lie. The slope on the course causes players to have a downhill or inclined lie can cause them to hit it fat or thin(causing errant shots). If you are not precise with your shots(where I think tiger's distance on this course could be a disadvantage due to his shots carrying too far) you end up struggling. Going too long and you end up in the trees where you have to lay up. Augusta and Pebble are difficult courses and do require accuracy, not as much as Southern Hills(hence no one being close to under 10 or more so far). I also think that the greens are much more difficult at Southern Hills with their quickness, how much they break, and their undulation. This course has it all...

Herzig
06-16-2001, 11:54 PM
And while we're at it fellas, let's agree that there are OTHER talented golfers on the PGA tour(even though Tiger has dominated lately). Let's give them some credit!

nickman
06-17-2001, 12:10 AM
Just watching the guys you have never heard of is impressive. I do think Tiger has them psyched out right now to a degree.. And the tourney's he wins he usually runs away with. Now that he is out of it so to speak it should be a dog fight. So Greg why are you still up at 1:00 on a Saturday night?

Herzig
06-17-2001, 12:18 AM
Nick

I should be out, but Im exhausted and all of my friends are in Texarkana for a wedding I should be at, but I had tickets to US OPEN... Im crashing now though in hopes that I might wake up early enough to squeeze in 18 before the open...

nickman
06-17-2001, 12:24 AM
Hope you strike it well.

Herzig
06-17-2001, 12:32 AM
I hit my driver and irons great...if I could just chip and putt I would be dangerous!!! I really need to focus on these two things and practice them more and maybe then I could crack into the 70's...

Thanks for the well wish...Do you know a guy by the name of Justin Ernst in J-town? He's a friend of mine...

milkman
06-17-2001, 06:24 AM
Greg,
Yes there definitely some other great golfers. The number of talented golfers out there far exceeds the numbers at any time that I can remember, which makes Tiger's run all the more remarkable.

I have watched the the last several Majors rooting for Phil Mickelson. Maybe he can finally get one now.

Bob Dole
06-17-2001, 08:26 AM
So what's the deal, Greg? Just afraid of Texarkana?

Herzig
06-17-2001, 10:15 AM
Bob-
Nothing personal against Texarkana(though they really laid that city out pretty funky street wise)...I would be there if I hadnt had US OPEN tickets...

milkman-
I agree that Tiger is remarkable..I would love to see Jack, Watson, Hogan, or Palmer play against him using today's club and ball technology..

stevieray
06-17-2001, 10:40 AM
Greg, ever used your seven iron for chipping?

Herzig
06-17-2001, 11:00 AM
Stevie,

Yeah, it depends on the lie and distance...mostly I use my Cleveland 60 degree Gun-metal Lob wedge...it's new and it has made a difference in my game already

good suggestion though

stevieray
06-17-2001, 11:10 AM
Another thing that helped my short game was taking my backstroke ONLY to eight o'clock and making sure to follow through.

Herzig
06-17-2001, 05:47 PM
What a great freakin US Open!!!!! Im on the edge of my chair here!!!!

Herzig
06-17-2001, 06:11 PM
Unfrikinbelievable!!!!!!! Those guys looked like me on the green!!!!!

Skip Towne
06-17-2001, 09:20 PM
Guess what, sportsfans, Its OVERTIME. Tulsa will remain on the map one more day thanks to totally inept putting on the final hole. What a game!!!

nickman
06-18-2001, 06:31 AM
Greg,

Sorry I don't know Justin. The ending of the open was good. That is one of the differences in Tiger I believe. He very seldom chokes in a situation where the tourney is his for the taking. These guys folded. Certainly not that I would do any better but Tiger ususally puts them away. They say that is the difference in him versus the otheres. Same with Nicklaus.

Herzig
06-18-2001, 07:32 AM
I agree completely nickman. Tiger does not let pressure get to him at all. In fact, he seems to thrive on it. This may be his biggest strength on the course even over his great driving ability, good putting, and long irons. I know I've been in tournaments where I've seen guys fold under pressure and I've been guilty of it myself. I cannot even imagine having to make a 2 footer for $800,000, in front of 60,000 people, not to mention millions watching on TV. Tiger definitely has nerves of titanium.

This is probably Mickelson and Duval's greatest weakness..

I have to admit though it was incredible watching someone of Tiger's magnitude play in person. He seemed to have 20,000 people following him on the course. Not to mention all of the media people and security around him. I only watched him there for a little bit...it was easier to see all of the other guys..

KCTitus
06-18-2001, 07:38 AM
This was a very good tournament...but none will be better than the '99 open at Pinehurst.

As far as Tiger is concerned, he is a great player, a dominant player and has an all around game. He is so good, in fact, that I think it takes something away from the game.

Last years Open was a joke. I didnt bother to watch even 5 minutes of the last or 3rd round because it was such a blow out. There's no drama, no competition, nothing of interest in watching one guy play golf almost completely alone.

I have been really impressed with some of Tiger's feats recently, but Im quickly reaching Tiger-overload. There are other golfers on the course and I'd like to see them as well. It's nice that Tiger garners such attention, but when he's 8 shots back with 3 to play, I think I'd rather be watching those within 1 or 2 shots play the course rather than Tiger.

Herzig
06-18-2001, 07:44 AM
I also agree Titus. Im burned out on Tiger mania too. It has to be insulting to the other golfers that led this tournament, while the media constantly mentions what Tiger was doing.

He has increased interest in the game though...Im not sure that is a good thing sometimes. I used be able to play a round of 18 in 4 hours. It seems as though I am lucky to get done in 5 with all of the congestion on the courses these days. Equipment also seems to have increased in price dramatically. Can we attribute all of this to Tiger??

TEX
06-18-2001, 07:47 AM
It's ALL GOOD because Tiger did NOT win.;)

KCTitus
06-18-2001, 07:53 AM
The mantra over the weekend was: 'You never know...' with regard to a Tiger comeback. If I had a dime for each time that was said during the last two days, I would have more money than the eventual winner today.

The only thing more annoying than that was Sergio's 30 regrips before he took the shot. It was so annoying, I started counting them. No one's going to convince me that it's a good pre-shoot routine to re-grip your club 30+ times.

I give Brooks the edge today...

As far as the Tiger effect, it's hard to say how far it reaches. I think club prices have allways been astronomical and with increased interest and therefore demand, it only forces prices higher. I dont buy name brand clubs anyway. I dont want to pay a 50% premium for the name brand. I do have a name brand Driver and SW, the rest are 'no name' brand clubs and serve me quite well.

California Injun
06-18-2001, 08:00 AM
Every major sport needs to have dominate teams to spark interest in the casual observer. The average Joe likes to either bandwagon onto a great team or cheer like mad against them.

Witness this years NBA Finals after the Sixers took Game #1.

Earnhardt vs. Gordon? Do Gordon fans get the same satisfaction watching Jeff dominate again without Dale scraping paint with him?

Witness the Yanks dynasty in MLB.

How many hockey fans were pulling for underdog Bourque?

The NFL reached peaks for the Packers in the 60s, the Dolphins and Steelers in the 70s, the 49ers/Cowboys in the 80s, and the Bills of the early 90s.

Love him or hate him, Tiger's dominance is the best thing to happen to golf since the Golden Bear vs. Arnie's Army.

Does anyone really care about today's 18 hole play-off with 3 no-names who can't sink a putt to save themselves?

How come Duval and Mickelson haven't stepped up to the challenge posed by Tiger?

It all comes down to watching good golf and Tiger has created that with his play. If some scrub is playing head-to-head with Tiger and hloding his own then I cheer like mad for the guy to beat him.

Would I get that same feeling for Hacker vs. Duval?

KCTitus
06-18-2001, 08:07 AM
In most of your examples you cite two competitors. Two competitors that are formidable foes is a good thing. However, having one person or team dominate so completely like Tiger has done is not good for any sport.

How interesting is baseball knowing that after 9 months and 10,000 games played, that the NY Yankees will win for the umpteenth time?

How interesting is basketball knowing that after 9 months of play that the Lakers will win the Finals (Chicago in the 90's)?

Good golf is one thing, competitive golf is another. Last years Open was the antithesis of competitive golf. Tiger won by 18 strokes. Where is the sport in that competition? There is none, he thoroughly dominated with a wonderful performance, but there was no competition.

The competition is what makes the game interesting, not the game in and of itself. If it were merely the game that was interesting why do you have all these divisions within sport, why not line up the yankees in baseball against a college baseball team? Why not line up the 'World Cup Champion' ladies soccer team against a male team? Because....it's not competitive.

California Injun
06-18-2001, 08:22 AM
What makes MLB interesting now is "Who is going to dethrone the Yankees".

The Lakers looks formidable now but they looked better in 1982 until Ralph Sampson hit that miraculous over the head shot to knock them out in the first round.

It's hoping for the impossible that makes for great sporting events.

USA vs. USSR "Miracle On Ice"?

Villanova's improbable NCAA run?

The Dodgers beating the Canseco/McGwire A's in 1988?

Heck, the Jets upsetting the Colts and our Chiefs overcoming a powerful Vikings team in Super Bowl IV.

How much animosity do the Ravens put into you heart? Let them win it again this season (with Grbac) and see how much we hate that team.

KCTitus
06-18-2001, 08:34 AM
I think you and I are talking about two different things, here. I do tend to root for the underdog in situations like you speak of.

Was Tiger even close to the leaders of the tournament yesterday? No. Was there any fanfare about how Mark Brooks or Retief Goosen overcame Tiger Woods? Of course not. Of course that didnt stop coverage of Tigers round even when he was out of the running.

The examples you cited would be similar to Tiger v. Mr. No Name in last years PGA championship. That was tainted by the placement of Tiger's ball on 18 after he hit it into the crowd and a ditch and the ball miraculously wound up in a clear shot to the green.

I will say that MLB is not interesting to me in any form, so it matters not who beats the Yankees.

If Baltimore wins the SB this year with Grbac, I wont hate them, but will be VERY INTERESTED at the comments on this BB.

Herzig
06-18-2001, 11:21 AM
anybody watching the playoff going on right now???

Lightning Rod
06-18-2001, 11:24 AM
Played my first round of the year yesterday. Got stuck playing the professional (more or less) tees. If I could only chip and putt.

KCTitus
06-18-2001, 11:25 AM
Yes, Im watching today's round...

Goosen just tied it up on 6 w/ a birdie. Both players are -1 for the round so far.

ptlyon
06-18-2001, 11:27 AM
For those who aren't that fortunate to watch...

The Open (http://www.usopen.com/scores/playoff.html)