View Full Version : A Look at the AFC West

06-20-2001, 02:32 AM
For original TSN Article Click here (http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/support/chiefs.html)


Will St. Louis imports be enough to put KC back in the playoffs?

After failing to reach the postseason for the fourth time in five years, the Chiefs cleaned house with their biggest overhaul in more than a decade -- and the club now hopes it has the same keys to success that opened the door to a Super Bowl title for the Rams.

Enter Dick Vermeil, who we last saw riding off into the sunset with the Lombardi Trophy in hand.

Enter Trent Green, who was supposed to be the Rams' savior two seasons ago, only to now find himself in a similar situation on the other side of the state.

Although these two have received the most attention in the Chiefs' offseason makeover, the St. Louis connections don't stop there. When Gunther Cunningham was made head coach prior to the 1999 season, much of the coaching staff carried over from the Marty Schottenheimer era.

Now, with Vermeil in charge, there are four coaches from the 1999-2000 Super Bowl squad, including offensive coordinator Al Saunders and defensive backs coach Peter Giunta -- who served as Vermeil's defensive coordinator in St. Louis. With them, they have brought a change in the overall philosophy to emphasize team speed and an attacking style of football.

Knowing how quickly Vermeil turned the Rams around, there is also the pressure to create success from the get-go in Kansas City. It's not like Vermeil wants to talk about any long-term plans, either -- he will turn 65 during the season.

No, Vermeil took over this job to make an immediate impact, but trying to push for a deep playoff run with a third franchise will be his biggest challenge yet.


After losing its first pick in the 2001 draft to obtain Green, the team wasn't in a position to rebuild with young players. The salary cap was also a problem, so the money wasn't there to bring in big-name free agents. So other than Green, there is really not a whole lot different from a team that fell apart the second half of last season, losing six of its final eight games to finish 7-9.

Although the Chiefs had a Pro Bowl quarterback last year in Elvis Grbac, who was waived because of the cap, you can bet Vermeil would have preferred Green all along. He will need to develop familiarity with his receivers, including Pro Bowl tight end Tony Gonzalez, but he will also be able to help teach the other players Saunders' offensive system.

Defensively, cornerback James Hasty and defensive tackle Chester McGlockton are gone, but the additions of two former Broncos, Ray Crockett and Glenn Cadrez, add much needed depth to the secondary and linebacker positions. Cadrez will challenge Lew Bush, a major disappointment last season, for the starting spot on the strong side, but just as important, Cadrez can serve as a backup at all three linebacker positions.

With new defensive coordinator Greg Robinson (also from the Broncos), the team will emphasize big plays and creating turnovers. Last year's team had only a plus-3 takeaway-giveaway ratio and was in the bottom third of the league with 15 interceptions.

The team is hoping Crockett and Jason Belser, an offseason addition from Indianapolis, will help settle a young defensive backfield. Otherwise, the big plays might be coming from opposing offenses.


New attitude. Of course, there is one anytime a new coaching regime takes over. But when that group of coaches can back up its talk by flashing Super Bowl rings (besides the St. Louis staff, Robinson won two in Denver), it makes it easier to believe in the new system.

Aerial attack. The team was fourth in the NFL in passing last season and ninth in scoring. There is no reason to think that the numbers can't be better in 2001: This year's offense will be much more dynamic, and Green can make better reads than Grbac could in a more scaled down offense.

"The bookends". This, of course, is a big reason for the expected production of the previous item. Former first-round picks John Tait and Victor Riley should give the Chiefs stability at left and right tackle for years to come. Throw in guard Will Shields -- by far the most significant re-signing of the offseason -- and the entire line should be solid, even with the departures of guards Dave Szott and Jeff Blackshear and center Tim Grunhard.


Running game. The Chiefs have struggled to find a legitimate No. 1 runner for the past few years, and last season the team plummeted to 91.6 yards a game, 25th in the league. The team signed Priest Holmes, but it's still not convinced he can handle the wear and tear of a full season. In other words, don't be surprised by another committee approach.

Running defense. In six games against Denver, Oakland and Seattle last season, the Chiefs allowed an appalling 155 yards a game rushing. The team's best answer for replacing McGlockton was third-round draft pick Eric Downing, so that means defensive tackle Dan Williams is going to have to get through a full season for the first time since 1997. Underrated defensive end Eric Hicks -- who is good against the run and the pass (14 sacks last year) -- is going to have to emerge as the leader of this bunch.
AFC West. The Broncos and Raiders remain strong, and the Seahawks and Chargers improved themselves much more than the Chiefs. So even if the team is convinced it has made the right moves since a year ago, the team will struggle to finish .500 in divisional play.


Green. He had the numbers -- his rating was better than Kurt Warner's last season -- but the fact of the matter is he still hasn't played through a full NFL season. Throw in the pressure of playing in a town that has been pretty tough on its starting quarterbacks, and that's a lot to put on the shoulders of someone still recovering from knee surgery.
Green recently made his debut on the practice field, and much to the relief of the team, he was holding up fine. If he isn't in top form by the start of the season, there's going to be a lot of grumbling considering the high price (12th overall pick) to get him.

Donnie Edwards. Last season, he was expected to develop as the star player from a solid group of linebackers. Although he led the team in tackles, he had only one sack. If the secondary holds up, Edwards should get more opportunities to make plays.

Any wide receiver other than Derrick Alexander. Alexander led the team with 1,391 yards and 10 touchdowns last season; after him, there is a major dropoff. Second-year player Sylvester Morris needs to step up after quickly tailing off last year. Even if Tony Horne (another former Ram) doesn't factor into the passing game, his speed is desperately needed to upgrade a kick-return unit that was 23rd in the league and punt return that was 26th.


As was typical, last year's offense was pretty plain, but this year the Chiefs will employ multiple formations and shifts, including the shotgun for the first time in years. It will be interesting to see how the team utilizes Gonzalez, who should remain a focal point of the offense, and fullback Tony Richardson. Those two positions weren't featured in St. Louis.


The arrival of the former Rams' celebrities might bring some excitement to Arrowhead, but really, can much be expected from a team that has imploded the past two seasons?

Green will join Gonzalez in the Pro Bowl, and Hicks, who just turned 25, will emerge as a star at defensive end, but that's about all there will be to cheer about in KC. There is just not enough on the roster to put this team past 8-8.

Benson Taylor is an assistant managing editor for The Sporting News. TSN Kansas City Chiefs correspondent Adam Teicher contributed to this report.


Never has such a ho-hum team drummed up as much interest as the Chiefs, a team that fantasy owners hope turns into Rams West this year.

Trent Green will go very high in many drafts, but itís tough to get a great read on his value. Dick Vermeil promises to open up the offense and throw the ball all over the field. But Green remains an injury risk, and he certainly is not surrounded with the same talent as the Rams. He figures to go in the fourth or fifth round of most drafts, but you can find surer bets (albeit with less upside) at that point.

The true fantasy stud of this team is Tony Gonzalez, far and away the best tight end in the league and a top receiver overall. You have to act early to get him, but you also will get top-notch receiver value at a position while everybody else tries to scrape by.

Both Gonzalez and Derrick Alexander will have great receiving numbers. Alexander sometimes gets a bad rap, but he has been solid for five years and will benefit from this offense as much as he did from the Chiefsí passing game last year when he had 1,391 yards and 10 touchdowns.

Sylvester Morris looked overmatched last year except for one three-touchdown game, and he wonít see enough passes this season.

The Chiefs added Priest Holmes to be their feature back and will try to use him much as the Rams use Marshall Faulk. But make no mistake: Holmes is no Faulk.

Over the past three years, Holmes has averaged 153 carries and 701 yards Ė- not horrible numbers in part-time work, but it still was part-time work and the Ravens replaced him anyway.

Holmes will have some good games but should not be in the top tier of running backs. -- Matt Pitzer

06-20-2001, 02:50 AM
Article was too big for me to get the links in there for the rest of the AFC West. Should have called it look at the Chiefs.

Not looking good according to just about everybody. The rest of the AFC West is far improved while the Chiefs stayed pretty much the same because of the salary cap and loosing those 3 draft picks for Vermeil and Green. Not to mention the stagnant stooge hangover. Canít believe Fagliabu hit us with another second rounder next year. :mad:

I think the biggest problems are going to be:

1. Defensive Tackle
2. Defensive Backs
3. Lack of speed at WR
4. Running back (will that EVER be fixed :mad: :mad: )
5. Green staying healthy and not using this time to mold a QBOTF

Does anybody else find it amazing that all our QBs are over 30 and with no 3rd string young gun waiting and learning in the background?

I think the biggest reason for optimism is that Vermeil is a crafty old coach who knows how to get the best out of their players. Watch for one or two players that the stooges couldnít get to perform to step up. Warfield and Maz are my early predictions.

06-20-2001, 03:00 AM

you don't sleep enough! :D

I think it's a pretty fair and honest article....A rarity in these parts....

We are what we are. Hope for better, support what is, and enjoy the optomism tommorow brings!

06-20-2001, 05:18 AM
I also think it's a fair article, but they ask a question,

"but really, can much be expected from a team that has imploded the past two seasons?",

that they really don't explore.
If they had sought an explanation for the implosion, they would have found, as we already know, that the implosion was caused by poor, no, horrendous coaching.

That problem has been solved.
Will that be enough to mean improvement for the team?
Maybe, maybe not, but I think that regardless, not enough emphasis is placed on the impact that the coaching has had on this team over the past 2 seasons.

06-20-2001, 05:48 AM
One other note.
Among the names listed as key losses are Donnell Bennett and Carlton Gray.

Bennett and Gray? Key losses?

They are just joking, right?

06-20-2001, 07:19 AM

I also think this article is fair and correct. I think the Chiefs have improved more than these guys give them credit for. I mean, I think the Chiefs have done a lot more than could have been expected of them given the cap situation, and are now on the right track.

BTW, Tags hit us for a 3rd rounder next year, and we get Washington's 3rd anyway (that's the one we give up I think), so we can live with that.

"lack of speed at WR". I am not worried about this. I am not sure why some many people think we are slow, and don't have talent to compare with the Rams. I don't agree. The Rams receivers are not actually that fast (except Hakim). They play on carpet, and run good routes which gives them the impression of being much quicker than they are. IMO the system made those players to a large degree. I mean, who would Ricky Proehl if he played for someone else? Who was Isaac Bruce before Martz's offense? Saunders and others in the know have commented on the fact that their 40 times are far from blistering. To be honest, I think DA plays the game fast too, and SlyMo looks slow with those long strides, but he has very good straight line speed IMO. Minnis is obviously not a burner, but seems to have all the quicks and moves (from what I hear) that will help him flourish in this system. Yes, we are relying on some youngsters to implement this system, but that's just another reason why we won't be playoff bound this year, but should be soon. Add in Gonzo, and I think we have the potential to have just as good a group of receivers. We don't have a Faulk, but there's only one Marshall Faulk. Having a running and receiving FB as good as T-Rich adds another dimension that the Rams don't have. I like the way our personnel fit the scope of an offense like this.

Having said all that, the division is tough as hell now, and I don't expect better than .500 over the season. But the hope for the future is better than the writers of this article would have you believe. JMO.

06-20-2001, 07:30 AM
How in the hell can this guy leave Tony Gonzales out of 'Spotlight Players'?!?!?!!!! Ummm, duuhherrr - he's only the best TE in the game.

This guy probably thinks along the same linear path as many KC fans(who shall remain nameless here): since our HC and OC and QB are from St Louis, we'll naturally use a carbon-copy of their offense, and therefore, our TE and FB are useless.

The wagon is boarding now. Grab a seat and hold on tight - when we tear out of the gates, the losers and detractors will try to jump back on. I, for one, am going to kick them in the face when they try

Joe Seahawk
06-20-2001, 09:24 AM
Seattle Seahawks

Jason Langendorf
The Sporting News


Is the kid (Matt Hasselbeck) the second coming of Brett Favre?

Read what fans have to say!

Seattle's trade for Packers backup quarterback Matt Hasselbeck may have been the most talked about acquisition of the offseason, but let's not put in any calls to Canton just yet.

Favre, a former Falcons third-stringer, has gone on to become a three-time MVP, a Super Bowl winner, holder of passing records and arguably the man most responsible for returning a once great franchise to the head of the class. Forget about free-agent backup quarterbacks -- how many first-round picks can boast that kind of a resume?

Hasselbeck, a sixth-round pick who spent his rookie season on the Packers' practice squad, isn't the next Favre -- but he doesn't have to be. The next Mark Brunell or Aaron Brooks would be just fine by the Seahawks.

Both quarterbacks are former Green Bay backups who took what they had learned from watching Favre and listening to then-Packers coach Mike Holmgren, an moved on to have more than a little success with other NFL clubs.

Most scouts agree that Hasselbeck has the physical tools to make it as a starter, and after receiving high marks in Quarterbacking 101 from the Harvard of NFL passing schools, he certainly has the knowhow.

Hasselbeck even has the advantage of being able to pick the brain of the coach who developed the offense that the quarterback studied and practiced in the past two years. You can be sure Holmgren will go out of his way to maximize Hasselbeck's knowledge of the Packers' playbook and its similarities to that of the Seahawks.

Forget about Favre. If Hasselbeck even resembles a legitimate NFL starting quarterback this season, and next season leads the Seahawks to the playoffs, he will have fulfilled any realist's highest expectations.



The game, as they say, is won in the trenches. Naturally, it is also lost there. More than anywhere else, the Seahawks needed drastic offseason change along the defensive line.

Of course, that's hardly news after a season in which the team's linemen whirred like turnstiles while five opposing running backs put up career-high rushing totals and the defense allowed more total yards in a single season than all but two others in NFL history.

Enter defensive tackles John Randle, Chad Eaton and Jeremy Staat, linebacker Levon Kirkland and safety Marcus Robertson. There once was a day when Randle, Kirkland and Robertson each could have been called the best player on a high-quality defense, though that day was three or four years ago, depending on the player.

Still, Seattle's defense desperately needed leaders -- players who hold themselves and their teammates accountable for their play -- after a season in which the performances of several of the defenders were deemed lazy, boneheaded or both. At least that much should change with the new additions.

John Schneider, the director of player personnel who deserves much of the credit for a 2000 draft rated by some as the best in the league, left the Seahawks to take a similar position with the Redskins. Ted Thompson, vice president of football operations, will assume Schneider's duties until Holmgren decides on a permanent replacement.



Last year's first-round pick, Shaun Alexander, likely won't start the season as the team's feature back -- but only because Ricky Watters stayed put. Along with helping to provide Seattle with some of the best running back depth in the league, Watters, whom many believed would be traded in the offseason, gives the team an old hand to help keep a group of otherwise green skill players on an even keel.

Seattle is in the third year of the Holmgren regime. Players don't learn systems overnight, especially those as complex and timing sensitive as the West Coast offense. With the vast majority of the team's offensive players already having played in the system for at least a year (and Hasselbeck having run a similar offense in Green Bay), the Seahawks should be able to spend less time learning and more time fine tuning their execution.

The Seahawks are only a year away from realignment. Though Holmgren opposed the team's move from the AFC West to the NFC West, it could be a blessing for the franchise. Seattle figures to face a divisional schedule at least as tough as the one it has now, but it could benefit from a fairly clean break from its inglorious past.



The team's already questionable wide receiver corps is looking even shakier after projected starters Koren Robinson (hamstring pull) and Darrell Jackson (bruised right knee), and likely third receiver James Williams (ankle fracture) all spent time nursing injuries before training camp. Healthy or not, the trio has just three combined years of NFL experience.

Seattle's defense could feature as many as six new starters, which, in the grand scheme of things, is good. (Seahawks fans would have far more to worry about had the team stuck with all of last year's starters.) Still, four of the five up-the-middle defenders are new additions, which could make for a nasty adjustment period in the short term.

A rumor floated recently has team owner Paul Allen interested in bringing back current Saints GM and former Seahawks GM Randy Mueller. Whether or not there is any truth to the matter, it could become a source of contentiousness. What intrigued Holmgren most about the Seahawks job in the first place was the dual coach/GM responsibilities.



Robinson. The rookie receiver's 40-yard dash time was slow at draft camp, his hands have come into question, and his maturity was in doubt after he was disciplined no fewer than three times during his last year at NC State. Other than that, there is plenty to love about Seattle's first-round pick. Whether the Seahawks are still enamored after the season has everything to do with how well Robinson addresses the aforementioned issues.

Ken Lucas. Seattle coaches would love nothing more than for someone to prove he is worthy of the starting cornerback spot opposite Shawn Springs. Since incumbent Willie Williams is considered "Plan B" and last year's second-round pick Ike Charlton has been a bust so far, Lucas, a second-rounder this year, is the man on the spot.

Rufus French. With tight ends like Christian Fauria and Itula Mili spinning their wheels in the Seahawks' lineup, it's no wonder the team is intrigued by French's size (6-3, 257) and speed. Problem is, the second-year man hasn't yet bounced back from a major knee injury suffered last season.
The Seahawks' offense needs a big, over-the-middle target to operate at full efficiency, and French is its best hope.



Last year the Seahawks employed a dime linebacker in obvious passing situations, but that will end this season if Levon Kirkland has his way.

The former Steelers stalwart hopes to shed some of his 285 pounds and prove in his first season with Seattle that he can still shadow a tight end or running back in pass coverage, as well as take care of priority No. 1 -- stuffing the run.



Seattle got most of what it wanted this offseason but may have missed out on the one ingredient it needed: Rice. When the Raiders won out over the Seahawks for the services of former 49ers legend/receiver Jerry Rice, it left Seattle with all kinds of issues.

Who will be Matt Hasselbeck's go-to guy? Who will counsel Robinson, playing Cris Carter to Robinson's Randy Moss? Who will get in the faces of teammates in funks and inspire calm among chaos?

The answer: no one. Not in the offensive huddle anyway. Hasselbeck may try to be the dynamic leader his unit needs, but he is too inexperienced to be reasonably expected to earn that kind of respect so quickly.

That leaves Watters, a laughable candidate if there ever was one. Watters is vocal and productive, which would be enough for this group if he didn't also dog it at times and seem to sometimes favor his own agenda over the team's.

The defense should be improved, though it may instead resemble the 2000 Panthers: a banged-up, past-its-prime unit chock full of free agents as overpaid as they are aged. Randle, Kirkland and Robertson probably have more left than those card-carrying AARP members, but they will be lucky to turn Seattle into even an average defensive club in one season.

Considering the offense will be breaking in a first-year starting quarterback who will rely on a group of largely untested receivers, an average defense won't cut it. Expect Hasselbeck to struggle, Robinson to be this season's Plaxico Burress and the Seahawks to limp to 6-10.

Jason Langendorf is an associate editor for The Sporting News. TSN Seattle Seahawks correspondent Clare Farnsworth contributed to this report.

06-20-2001, 09:37 AM
A very fair and reasoned article. And an accurate one I might add.

We horribly overpaid for Green. CP's under the table moves for DV wound up costing us 2 draft picks. And our first two draft picks were at positions of need, but resulted in reaches (IMHO).

Our defense, already bad, is probably worse. And we're counting on Williams to try and stop the inside run of Oakland, Denver and Seattle. (Yeah right!)

Our offseason moves will pay off in the long run, but the short run will be painful. The article was being kind when it mentioned us as a .500 team, for this year anyway.

06-20-2001, 09:59 AM
All these knuckleheads look at the previous seasons record and then draw their conclusion from that...They tend to forget how many close games we lost due to our horrible coaching staff.

If we had any other coaching staff in the league we would not have lost to Tenn, the 1st Oakland game, NE and SD. IMO, just by changing the coaching staff last years team would have been at least 11-5 not to mention that fact that had the team won those four games they probably wouldn't have quit in week 17 against a very bad Atlanta team...

If we were coming off a 11-5 season I can assure you they wouldn't be talking about a troubled team looking to rebuild.

06-20-2001, 12:14 PM
Punisher, glad to see I'm not the only one who isn't sold on Green. I too remember watching him at IU and D.C. He struck me as an average QB who had some skills, but nothing outstanding. His numbers were always good, but some intangible seemed lacking.

Blaming all of last year's problems on the coaches is an easy copout. These are the same guys that would've led us to the playoffsin '99, but for a missed Stoyo kick. The coaches did cost us some games, but bad play cost us more. And was our horid D a function of Kurt/Shaw, or was it a function of bad D? That remains to be seen. For those that say the mere presence of DV/AS/Robinson is worth 2 wins, I'd have to counter by asking how many passes, receptions, and tackles those three plan to make.

Unfortunately I see us getting swept by both Oakland and Denver. (Damm that hurts to write)

06-20-2001, 12:28 PM

I usually like the touch of realism you bring to the board....but what's up with this
For those that say the mere presence of DV/AS/Robinson is worth 2 wins, I'd have to counter by asking how many passes, receptions, and tackles those three plan to make.

Respectfully, you make it sound like no new coaching staff ever could make a difference to a team because they don't play :confused:. I don't remember Parcells ever throwing a pass for the Giants, Patriots or Jets but he still brought them all deep into the playoffs. Good coaches bring out the best in their players, and that's all I ask of DV et al. Well, actually knowing how long the play-clock is, and knowing when to go for a 2 point conversion....hell, those attributes would be a bonus :D. While the W-L record may not look much better this year (I'm not betting the Chiefs will improve by 2 wins this season), it will be worth the wait IMO.

I never saw Green play college ball at IU, but, to me, that's irrelevant anyway. Ty Detmer and Danny Wuerffel were among the best college QBs of recent decades.....it just doesn't translate to the pros, as I know you are aware. I agree that Green didn't look special (to me) as a Redskin, and I was surprised he was hailed as a great signing by the Rams back in '99. I'm not "sold' on him either, but he has shown to be capable of brilliant things in this offense in limited action since then, and I think, given the confidence shown in him by DV/AS etc. he is worthy of a chance.

JMO :)

06-20-2001, 12:33 PM
Those coaches frankly have to prove themselves all over again while here, but IMHO, we're underestimating some of the talent on this team because of how they've been miscoached the last few years. If these coaches put them in a better position to make plays this year, then basically DV/AS/GR will be helping to make some tackles... :)

06-20-2001, 01:03 PM
Cormac, upon re-reading that I have to admit I put it poorly. I'm not saying the Stooges for DV/AS is an even trade. Now Kurt/Shaw for Robinson at the moment I consider a push but that's a different question.

My statement was a response to a seemingly widespread belief that by their mere presence the current cast will get us more wins. While they are a net improvement I still see major personel problems, vis a vie talent. These three will attempt to rebuild (yes rebuild) the team and in so doing will accrue losses. They are not silver bullets and shouldn't be viewed as such.

06-20-2001, 01:13 PM

Thanks for the reply. I also have reservations about Robinson (and Gansz Jr.), and am guilty of overlooking a lack in talent and blaming it on coaching. I guess, I don't want to judge what we have on our team without seeing them play for a worthwhile coaching staff. Personally, I think we have a lot of talent on the starting roster. Right now, we lack decent depth at several positions. But if we can remain relatively injury-free, and the coaching staff does a job I think they can do, we'll be in for a good ride over the next few seasons IMO. But I am not expecting anything other than increased desire and competitiveness on the field this season.

06-20-2001, 02:37 PM
I think Cormac tried to say this, but anyways...

I don't think the Chiefs suffer from a lack of talent. The reason I blame the coaches is because they were the ones that hid the talent on the bench.

What we have here is not a lack of talent, but rather a perceived lack of talent due to poor on-the-field personnel decisions.

06-20-2001, 10:07 PM
Canít believe Fagliabu hit us with another second rounder next year.

It's a 3rd rounder next year and we pick up the SKINS 3rd rounder so we have a pick in every round.

My guess is the 3rd we get from the SKINS will be an early 3rd. ;)

06-20-2001, 10:20 PM

You may be right at the speed at WR thing. I honestly never really put it in that perspective. DA has a good deal of speed but I think Sly is more of a Herman Moore out-muscle, out-jump type of receiver. All in all, thatís not a bad package to have to try and implement although.

It sucks that the stooges and the current coaching staff had/have such bipolar coaching philosophies. The stooges brought in all these big and overpowering players and now DV and crew has to try and implement them in this whole new scheme. That in itself is a major factor that is holding us back for a year or two.


I agree we overpaid for Green. He may turn out to be a steal, but on a level playing field he was not worth the #12 overall pick considering his past performance. I wanted a stopgap QB and McMahon, Tuiposso (sp?) or Breese. Oh well, Iíve beaten that dead horse enough.

I donít see how the defense can get worse. You may not like Robinson but heís better than soft-zone Kurt.

If I had to pick out two individual holes in the defense they would be Dan Williams and Pat Dennis. I donít know how anybody can expect IR Dan to stay healthy for 3/4 of the games let alone a whole season. Plus how much juice does he have left? Pat Dennis in my opinion sucks. The only reason he was on the field was because of the enigmatic stooge mentality. I wouldnít be all too surprised if he wasnít on the roster if we picked up another CB.

Last item: I think last year if we had different coaches, especially this seasons crew, we would have won 3-4 more games. The stooges sucked so bad that the players had a ďthis is a jokeĒ mentality. I wasnít there in the locker room but you could see it in their play. How could anyone take Gun seriously? He sounded like senile man on crack! Thatís not a polite statement but his mind was always racing and it made him look like a fool. Tough to follow someone you perceive as a fool.

I guess what I mean is that you may be underestimating the extent of which stooges polluted the players.

06-20-2001, 10:22 PM

Thanks - that was my bad. Kinda makes the whole thing easier to suck up given the scenerio I thought we had coming.

06-21-2001, 07:57 AM

I think your criticism of DW is founded. He needs to step up this year, and I think he can if he wants to...

But please don't rip on Pat Dennis...how would you like to be a small school, late round draft pick, starting opposite JAMES HASTY, against the DEFENDING AFC CHAMPS and know that you were being told what to do by GUNTHER CUNNINGHAM?

06-21-2001, 08:40 AM
Pre-game stooge peptalk:

"Now, Pat (Dennis). This is Tim Brown you have to go up against today...."

"but, can't James......?"

"No Pat, we are going to leave James Jett or Andre Rison to James Hasty because our corners have to stay to one side of the field or another. That's our system. Everyone has one, but this one is ours".


"No buts about it Pat, you don't want to confuse us all now do you?"

"Confuse you?.......sh!t guys, look at Gun, he's just after telling Maz he's going to be today's starting RB"

"Never mind that now Pat. Just remember, all you have to do is make sure you give Brown a 15 yard cushion at the line of scrimmage, OK? That way he'll never score on you!"

I can see it now :rolleyes:

Otter, That's JMO about the speed at WR. I think we'll be OK, because one way or another we're not going to be the Rams with T-Rich and Gonzo being keys.

06-21-2001, 09:03 AM

Thank you for that mental image of the idea I was trying to portray...you can't blame that on Pat Dennis...

06-21-2001, 09:17 AM
Cormac & hits - LMAO :D

Point taken!

06-21-2001, 02:39 PM
htis and Otter,

Just trying to do them justice :eek::D