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View Full Version : I wonder if Kevin Lockett is sitting at home right now thinking...


keg in kc
06-22-2001, 01:23 PM
...why oh why oh why didn't I re-sign with Kansas City!

I know he left to move from #3 here to #2 there, but guess what - he'd probably be #2 here in the wake of the Morris injury. So, instead of catching at least 60 passes in an open offense as our #2, he's in D.C. relegated to blocking 350 times for Stephen Davis while looking over his shoulder at Rod Gardner and wondering when Jeff George is going to have his next tantrum.

Funny how things work out sometimes, ain't it.

Just a bizarre thought I had while thinking about this whole SlyMo situation. ;)

Phobia
06-22-2001, 01:45 PM
LOL - poor Lockett.

I really wish we could have kept him.

NaptownChief
06-22-2001, 01:47 PM
He will probably be the #3 WR there after all...Behind Westbrook and Gardner...The say Westbrook is back to health and ready to roll.

DaWolf
06-22-2001, 02:45 PM
I thought the exact same thing after the injury. That and Poole might be feeling a bit silly for choosing Denver considering he's looking like the 4th reciever at best there...

HC_Chief
06-22-2001, 02:55 PM
Well a positive spin would be: Klemic, R. Hall, D. Hall and Moses are all a step closer to making this roster. All four of these guys have been impressive.

htismaqe
06-22-2001, 03:00 PM
Right on, HC...

keg in kc
06-22-2001, 03:33 PM
Hey, no negative spin intended on my part at all; I was never a big Lockett fan. I just find it ironic that the reason he didn't re-sign here was because he apparently wanted a shot at a starting job, and, lo and behold, he might have had one if he had stayed...

I'm probably the biggest Ricky Hall/Dave Klemic fan you'll find.

Hall has been impressive in Europe, although he's been the #3 receiver on the Frankfurt team - realistically, if he can't break into the top 2 there, how can we expect him to do it here...

I hope he gets a legitimate shot, though.

Klemic really impressed me at the public practice a few weeks ago. He seemed to have good hands, and he clearly has good speed. If he can show good route running skills, I would give him the nod over both Dante Hall and J.J. Moses simply because he's a bigger guy, but with the same sort of speed. Call me crazy, but I'm more comfortable with a speedy 5'11, 188 pound receiver than I am with a speedy 5'6 or 5'8 receiver. Moses might have a spot as a punt returner (or maybe Blaylock, I don't know at this point) but I've yet to see anything that would make me comfortable with Dante Hall being one of our 6 receivers - I've never been impressed with him as a return man, and the times I've seen him play in NFLE this summer, I've not been impressed (admittedly I haven't seen him more than a couple of times...).

Returning to Klemic for a second, I think it's possible that two or three years from now the rest of the NFL may be scratching its collective head and wondering how the heck did we let that guy slip through the draft.

Now, all that said, I think you have to admit that losing Morris is a big hit to the WR position. We have no experienced depth whatsoever now, and as much as I'd like to see all of the rookies and underdog-type guys get a shot, I'd also like to know that I have a dependable #2 wide-out. I guess I could live with a WR corps of Alexander, Minnis, Parker, R. Hall, Horne and Klemic, but I can't help but think we could use someone who's actually had a little playing time at this level.

Who's #1 if DA goes down (god forbid...)?

DaWolf
06-22-2001, 03:55 PM
Dudes, why worry when we've got Chris Thomas on the roster?

We'll be fine. Although perhaps we should place a call to Sean LaChapelle's mechanic shop...

htismaqe
06-22-2001, 04:03 PM
I don't think Lockett would have gotten the nod from DV. He wasn't all that fast, and he had ALOT of trouble separating from D-Backs...

I'd really like to see Ricky Hall get a shot...

Mark M
06-22-2001, 04:10 PM
keg--
Who's #1 if DA goes down?

You just scared the hell out of me, dude. I will now lie awake nights and think about this over and over. If it happens, that 4-12 season some have been predicting just might happen.

I guess it's Tony Gonzalez in actuality, although in name it'd have to be Horne. At least he already knows the offense.

MM
~~"Honestly honey ... I need the beer so I can sleep."

Phobia
06-22-2001, 04:55 PM
Mark,

I've never disagreed more with one of your posts regarding Horne becoming #1 if DA goes down. He MIGHT be #3 at that point. He's not a disciplined WR and that's what makes a great KR IMHO.

ck_IN
06-22-2001, 07:48 PM
It is ironic isn't it. Lockett leaves and we draft his clone Minnis. And now DV is making noise about Minnis at #2.

Actually I'm pulling for R. Hall as well. I'm not sure about his speed, but I do like his size. He'd be able to bang with the AFC West CB's where Lockett never could.

I don't know about Klemic but we absolutely need a burner (why did we let Horn go?). If Klemic can fill the bill, than bring him on. I know Moses can but he's simply too small as is D. Hall.

Actually Mayes would be a good fit. Good size, good hands, and some speed.

Brock
06-22-2001, 08:10 PM
Personally, I think Minnis will be Green's first look by the end of the year, after Gonzalez.

California Injun
06-22-2001, 08:22 PM
Lockett may not have had great separation ability but the man would catch EVERYTHING thrown in his zip code.

He added at least 5% to Grbac's passing stats with his velcro hands.

Horn sure would be nice to have back...

Cannibal
06-22-2001, 08:38 PM
If Lockett could just get a significant amount of PT, he could put up some decent numbers.

His circus grabs were the stuff of legend at K-State and he made a few at the pro level despite being relegated to WR by committee w/ Rison and Parker.

I went through and looked at his 3rd down receptions over the last couple of years and soooo many of his receptions moved the chains. He is a QB's savior on 3rd down.

He may not be the biggest or the fastest, but I haven't seen many receivers with his concentration. He's a fuggin human vacuum cleaner.

I wish we still had the guy.

KCJohnny
06-24-2001, 10:44 AM
I loved Lock and hated to see him go. Raye will get max production from him in Wash. Bet on it.

Last year, we entered the season with only 1 WR last year who had ever started an NFL game and still finished 5th in the league in overall passing offense. If DA goes down, we become a running team, that's all there is to that!

I like Tony Horne a lot. If you go back and watch the tape of the Chiefs/Rams game last year, Horne was outstanding in KO returns, nearly breaking at least 2. The dude can run after the catch. The starting rotation could look like DA, Minnis, and Horne, but I would not be surprised to see some 1-back, two TE sets (sound familiar?) with Ricks possibly lining up at the other TE spot. Not exactly Martzyball, but who could stop it?

KCJ
Get well Slymo

ck_IN
06-24-2001, 11:26 AM
John, please don't scare me by mentioning a WR set of DA, Minnis, and Horne. The concept is just too terrifying. That's effectively a 1 WR set with Green staring down DA or Gonzo. 'Mr. (insert CB's name here), your interception is served'.

If we can't sign Mayes or someone like him, 2 TE sets might not be a bad idea. But forget Ricks. Go with Baber or Dunn. I doubt that Ricks makes the team.

Horne is a good KR, but he's so one dimensional. Vannover revisted. I just wish we could find a returner that could also play a position. I hate using roster spots on specialists. (besides punters and placekickers of course)

milkman
06-24-2001, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by KCJohnny
I loved Lock and hated to see him go. Raye will get max production from him in Wash. Bet on it.

Yeah, he'll make him into a great downfield blocker on draw plays in 3rd and 12 situations.

WackyRuss
06-24-2001, 06:40 PM
this is a stupid post

keg in kc
06-24-2001, 07:17 PM
Coming from you, I take that as a compliment.

htismaqe
06-25-2001, 09:20 AM
milkman,

I agree! :D dive up the gut on 3rd down, Jimmy!

Proctor,

I think we would have seen plenty of 2TE sets without all this. This wasn't going to Martzyball before, and it isn't now. Please get over it. ;)

KCJohnny
06-26-2001, 04:40 PM
Parker:

:p

KCJ

htismaqe
06-26-2001, 05:13 PM
In all seriousness, though...the 2TE set was used alot by Don Coryell, and used ALOT more by Joe Gibbs in Washington with Riggins in the backfield. The Cowboys used it under both Turner and Zampese.

A 2TE set with TRich in the backfield would be potent, and I'll bet that both Saunders and Vermeil know that... :D

keg in kc
06-26-2001, 05:58 PM
We could do it with 2 capable receiving tight ends, as well, if Ricks comes along. Very flexible offensive set, in that instance, unlike in the past where just about everyone in the stadium knew what was coming when 2 TE were in the game...

Ethelyn
06-27-2001, 01:31 PM
And why won't "Ricks" make the team?

htismaqe
06-27-2001, 02:34 PM
My gut feeling is that your son will not only make the team, but make a significant contribution as the #2 TE...

Phobia
06-27-2001, 04:24 PM
I second that (about Ricks #2 TE).

And, I'm not just being nice to his Momma.

I'd be saying that if she never posted on this board.

He has the athletic talent and he's every bit as big as Gonzo. I don't know how strong he is, but if he can learn the system and block when he needs to, I think he and Gonzo could be more lethal than Indy's 1-2 TE punch.

keg in kc
06-27-2001, 04:30 PM
A couple of comments from Coach Vermeil about your son, Ethelyn. You may have seen them already...

June 11:

Q: (WR) Mickael Ricks played some tight end today, is that right ?

VERMEIL: "We moved him in there to work him as we do Tony (Gonzalez), especially in a pass offense. He did well. We're working on it and plan to take it into camp and see how it works. He's almost 240 pounds now.

June 13:

Q: Will it be a tough adjustment for Mikhael Ricks to play tight end ?

VERMEIL: "It will be but he has a great attitude about it. We won't expect him to do the same things we always expect a guy like Jason Dunn to do. But he'll still be able to do some of the physical things and all of the skill things."

I think he will can the team, assuming he puts in his best effort; the opportunity certainly appears to be there for him.

BIG_DADDY
06-27-2001, 04:38 PM
BIG DADDY will miss Lockett. THe kid enjoyed playing the game and I loved the way he jumped up after every play no matter how hard he got hit with that BIG SMILE on his face.

BIG DADDY

Agrees that it was dumb to leave.

Ethelyn
06-28-2001, 09:16 AM
I was thinking that maybe it seems that I take up for my son a lot, but I'm just so proud of him, in that he even made it to the NFL. I have a friend whose son played with the Titans and I was wondering where he was and he's playing in Europe, I guess to tone up on his skills.

Mikhael is fortunate in that he hasn't had to do that yet, but he's really trying hard to make the team and to adjust to his new, yet not new position.

Hopefully with his size he can help KC and be a formidable backup to Gonzales and Dunn. I can understand that with all the media hype about his lack of this and that, that the KC backers would have their doubts, just like Ryan Leaf. A change is good. Ryan lost 20 pounds at Tampa Bay and with the loss of weight comes a new attitude. I think with a new team, and a new attitude, plus the weight of carrying around the burden of "not making the team", if this and that, I feel he's gonna be alright.

Ethelyn
06-28-2001, 09:16 AM
One more and maybe I won't be a lurker:D

htismaqe
06-28-2001, 10:46 AM
Ehtelyn,

You should get some kind of special recognition, seeing that all 30 of your posts were about the same exact thing -- your son! :D

Ethelyn
06-28-2001, 11:19 AM
I only call 'em as I see 'em. If Kevin Lockett or Sylvester Morris were my children, I'd be doing the same thing.:p

ck_IN
06-28-2001, 11:27 AM
I've nothing against Ricks but I simply don't see how he can make the team.

Currently we're 5 deep at TE counting Gammons. Gonzo and Baber are locks. Dunn most likely is a lock. Gammons is a deep snapper who may lose out to Caderz. Baring injury, the numbers simply aren't there for Ricks.

If he can't play at WR he simply doesn't make the cut here.

Ethelyn
06-28-2001, 01:34 PM
I've got nothing against you - - but we'll have to wait and see won't we. Since you're at practice everyday, and know what the coaches are saying and/or seeing . . . you're probably right:mad:

ck_IN
06-28-2001, 02:06 PM
Ethelyn, relax. Like I said I've nothing against your son. He's simply caught on the wrong side of a numbers game.

I can't imagine us going deeper than 4 at TE. Actually I doubt we go deeper than 3. Gonzo is in for obvious reasons. Baber is in because he's a current draft pick. CP would never cut a draft pick in his first year. That leaves Dunn and Ricks. Dunn is a bigger blocker and ST's contributor. He'll likely get the nod. If we go 4 deep it'd strictly be to keep Gammons.

The best thing that could happen to Mr. Ricks would be if he was cut now. Then he'd have a chance to go elsewhere.

alphacroon
06-28-2001, 02:26 PM
Baber was a 5th round pick and therefore is not a lock. 4th round picks and up are basically locks, but a 5th rounder has a good shot at being on the practice squad.

A word about JJ Moses' size. Didn't I read somewhere that he made a tremendous showing as a flyer on punt coverage. I thought the article I read said that was able to beat the double team off the line. If that is the case, he should have no problem beating the "jam" at the line as a WR. Just a thought.

htismaqe
06-28-2001, 05:13 PM
What I've read from statements by DV and Saunders is that the TE will be an integral part of this offense. I bet we keep 4. That would be Baber, Dunn, Gonzo, and Ricks. I think, at least in passing formations, Ricks can beat out Dunn.

He's got knees!

keg in kc
06-28-2001, 05:42 PM
alphacroon, here's a comment or two from DV about Moses:

May 17th:

Q: What would be your plan for (KR/WR) JJ Moses ?

VERMEIL: "Touchdown runs with the ball in his hands. I'd like to see him as a punt returner; I'd like to see him as a third down receiver; a play maker. That kind of kid is capable of making plays. You've got to insert him in situations where he can take advantage of his quickness and his ability to separate from defenders. You've got to give him the opportunity to return punts."

Q: People will say he's too small ?

VERMEIL: "He's smaller than 5'6" but he's a football player. If he's successful in returning punts in a game no one's going to ask him how tall he is. They're going to have a problem tackling him. He's got a challenge on his hands and knows that. He's going against the odds of a person that size, but he has some very off-setting talents that maybe a guy 6'1" doesn't have. He can separate and get away; he can duck under people and is extremely elusive. If he can carry those same qualities into a pre-season game and exploit them, he'll have a shot."


I remember the statement you mentioned about one of the rookies being good at the flyer position, but I could swear DV was talking about Derrick Blaylock. I can't find the article right now, but I'll post it if I do.

ck_IN
06-28-2001, 07:25 PM
Hitsmaque, So you're thinking they'll cut Gammons and let Caderez do the long snapping? Could be. At least that way we'd get some use out of Caderez. I hope we're never so desperate that we actually need him to play LB.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I just don't see Ricks beating out Dunn (barring injury) for the final TE spot. Gonzo and Baber are on the light side for TE's. Dunn is bigger and a better blocker. We also haven't mentioned Muher, our allocated TE in Frankfurt. He's looked pretty good across the pond.

Bob Dole
06-29-2001, 02:13 AM
It appears that nobody is too enthused with Dante Hall's switch to WR in NFLE...

6th in receptions, 8th in receiving yards, 2nd in punt returns and 1st in kickoff returns.

But of course, Bob Dole has been a Dante supporter since the day he was drafted and forgets that Hall is just too small...

htismaqe
06-29-2001, 08:45 AM
Chuck,

After Gonzo, anything could happen. I think the fact that Cadrez can play all 3 LB positions, plus long snap, combined with the fact that his salary is 1/3 of Gammons' will mean Gammons goes.

Baber is a rookie, and won't play much, even though he'll make the team. Dunn is a walking emergency room dummie. He's ALWAYS hurt and has been ever since his days in Philly. I really think if Ricks can step up, the job is all his...

htismaqe
06-29-2001, 08:47 AM
Senator,

Where the hell have you been? :D

I'm not enamored with Hall after what he did here last year. Sure, he's doing well in Europe, but so did alot of guys that won't amount to much in the NFL. Both Klemic and Ricky Hall have good speed and are much bigger. JJ Moses is smaller, but he's apparently ALOT quicker...it just seems Dante is the odd man out...

Bob Dole
06-29-2001, 10:50 AM
Been here and there, running frantically from one crisis to another, mostly. Argh.

It appeared that Dante's head just wasn't in it last season. Bob Dole would agree that success in NFLE does not automatically translate to NFL success, but if you've seen him at all, he's looking like the player he was at A&M.

If we ditch Cloud as a lot of people want, who's left to return KO and P if Horne goes down?

htismaqe
06-29-2001, 11:11 AM
Let's see:

Holmes - RB
Moreau - RB
Blaylock - RB/KR/PR
Cloud - RB/KR
Richardson - FB
Layne - RB

Alexander - WR
Minnis - WR
Klemic - WR
R. Hall - WR
Horne - WR/KR
Moses - WR/PR

I just don't see much room for Dante...

alphacroon
06-29-2001, 12:22 PM
Keg in KC, you are correct. It was Blaylock.



One of the dirtiest jobs in football belongs to the gunners, the players who are split from the punt formation and frequently have to beat double teams to get downfield and make a play on the returner.

Rookie running back Derrick Blaylock excelled at the job in minicamp. He drew on-field praise at one point from coach Dick Vermeil for neatly avoiding his two foils and scooting quickly downfield to make a play.

"It's a tough, tough job," Vermeil said. "It's probably the toughest four seconds in football. So you look for athletes who can avoid, who can run, who are tough. It's a way to test a young man to see what he's made of."

alphacroon
06-29-2001, 12:25 PM
htismaqe,

of the receivers you listed, only Alexander, Minnis and Horne have spots locked up. The other 3 will be in a battle with each other, Hall, and any FAs we pick up for the last 3 spots.

htismaqe
06-29-2001, 03:05 PM
Alpha,

I realize that. The list was my prediction of who will win those battles...

Ethelyn
07-02-2001, 10:54 AM
Like I said, I've nothing against you . . . but you don't know. Let Mikhael go through camp, before you kick him off the team for good.

htismaqe
07-02-2001, 11:37 AM
Ethelyn,

I listed running backs and receivers. Mikhael is not on that list because I think he'll make the team as a tight end, not because I don't think he'll make the team...

Ethelyn
07-02-2001, 02:14 PM
That's okay, I realized that you'd done that after I'd answered. My bad:rolleyes:

Bob Dole
08-13-2001, 09:46 AM
Bob Dole just wanted to revive the thread to see if htismaqe has changed his mind about roster room for Dante...

Phobia
08-13-2001, 09:53 AM
Bob - I think Moses will win the battle of the little big men. Hall will still be out, IMHO. I like Hall and I wish him well, but there are only so many roster spots.....

California Injun
08-13-2001, 09:55 AM
If Lockett wants Reggie Tongue's phone number I'm sure Seahawk could hook him up.

What kills me is I really liked Lockett. It's too bad he fell for Marty's Greg Hill speech about being "Da Man" in Deadskins land.

htismaqe
08-13-2001, 09:56 AM
Dante did well. I'll give him that. Of course, it was against a Mike Stock special teams unit!

I'll have to wait and see what Moses does, but right now I still think it's JJ's job to lose...

Bob Dole
08-13-2001, 09:59 AM
Bob Dole hopes you're wrong, Phil. Bob Dole would hate to have a Dante Hall Fan website that was something other than a Chiefs site...