View Full Version : Were you a Girbac or an anti Girbac fan last year?

06-24-2001, 10:07 PM
I was an anti Girlbac last year and a year befor that

06-24-2001, 10:14 PM
Never liked Grbac... Did hold my criticism when he became THE quarterback after Gannon left... Why criticize the guy while he's driving? But he was and is a jerk, has no solid leadership skills in a crisis, and reads defenses poorly. His saving grace was his arm, not his head...

06-25-2001, 04:05 AM
I never liked him as well.

I don't see any talent on him except a strong arm. I begged for him to prove me wrong, but he rarely did.

06-25-2001, 04:43 AM
I waffeled.

Before last year I disliked him intensely. About halfway through last season I became a Grbacker because of the year he was having and I thought he was finally showing some maturity.
However, the way he left KC and the things he has said since he left have pushed me back to being a Grbasher once again. He left with no class and has acted with no class ever since. :p

06-25-2001, 05:25 AM
I was a Grbacker, I thought he deserved a chance to either show he could do it, or fail miserably. I do think he has poor leadership skills, and doesn't do really well in the 2 minute drill. But he did throw for over 4000 yards last year while the defense knew what was coming.

I think he will be an improvement in Baltimore, unless his mouth and attitude brings the entire team down. IMHO, both teams are better off.

06-25-2001, 05:25 AM
I was a Grbac fan the minute he arrived in KC. He was a tall, strong armed QB with accuracy and I thought he would succeed. He did this last year, but I guess his previous blunders and the fact that his head grew a few inches lead him to leave. I feel we have a good QB now, not quite as strong an arm but very accurate and more importantly a LEADER and TEAM PLAYER. I support all Chiefs players and wouldn't consider myself a fan if I wanted someone to fail as a Chief.

06-25-2001, 05:56 AM
I was always a basher.Last year he actually showed some improvment.Every time I bashed him the entire Star board would come to his defense.

06-25-2001, 06:16 AM
I supported Grbac while he was a Chief. I always wanted him to do well to silence his critics, as I thought he was a lot better than what he was given credit for. Now that he is gone, it's fun to dog on him a bit, and easier to acknowledge his shortcomings on the field because he is no longer with us (2-minute offense, decision making in the clutz.....I mean clutch :), and lack of leadership). However, I don't care how he does in Baltimore. The way he left KC is also irrelevant to me. Apparently he tried to stick it to the Chiefs (from what we have heard), but I don't necessarily believe everything I read from the team. Also, IMO, it was his prerogative to leave in whatever way he chose. All he did was make himself look even more unprofessional/lacking in leadership. If he lights it up in Baltimore, I will neither miss him, nor shout against him.

06-25-2001, 07:48 AM
O.K. I've been out to Yellowstone and Glacier for the last several weeks howling with the wolves, so this looks like a good place to jump back in to things. I was on the Grbac bandwagon even through the dark years...as long as he was a Chief, I was willing to sink or swim with him...now that he's gone - "hasta la chumpa" baby!

06-25-2001, 09:11 AM
I didn't want Grbac during the whole Gannon or Grbac thing. Was hoping we would keep Gannon and bring in some young hot-shot for Rich to mentor.

Of course, that didn't happen. Grbac stayed and I began supporting him (somewhat begrudgingly at first) because he wore the uniform. I must say I was pleasantly surprised at his last 2 years in KC. He improved beyond a point I didn't think he was capable of getting past. Now, he still has faults as we know, 2 min. offense, etc...but I still say he's in the top dozen QB's in the NFL right now.

I realize that Grbac has said some negative things about KC since his departure, and to be fair, Chiefs mgmt. said some less-than-kind remarks on the situation themselves. Those things happen...I hold no particular grudge against either side.

Nor do I blame Elvis for leaving (similarly, I don't blame Peterson & co. either--again, it's just one of those things--free agency things, in this case). I cheered for him when he was our QB and always hoped he'd do well--and he did get better. He's gone now and I wish him luck--as long as that luck in no way impinges on the Chiefs success. I hold no hatred for him--unlike some others on this board. I just felt like I wanted to explain my position--apologies for the lengthiness of the post


06-25-2001, 09:28 AM
I supported Elvis but he proved all the people right who said he was a low character guy. He proved them right when after he got over the perverbial hump and finally played the way he was supposed to and then walked out on his team mates after they shared all the boos meant for him. He made it through the hard times only to bolt to Balt to ride their coat tails hoping he can get a ring as a stating QB. That's parasitical behavoir in my book. He'd rather ride someones elses success then make his own. What a worm. That's why I now refer to him as "Parasite Elvis".

PhilFree :cool:

06-25-2001, 09:43 AM
I was a Grbacker, because like some others of said, he was better then what his critics were saying about him. I also never wanted to have someone like Gannon who was afraid of using his arm, we have went through a pile of these type QB's and it has done nothing for us.

With the lack of the fan support, Vermeil talking up Green and the other issues here I don't hold any grudge about Grbac leaving, I probably would have done the same. I really don't care much what happens to him from here on out. Of course if he plays an AFC West team I will want him to win because it helps us, and I definitly don't want to lose to him if we play him, because that is bad for the Chiefs.

06-25-2001, 09:52 AM
I would be considered a Grbacker, although I felt I was just a fan who fairly critisized him when needed (throwing it short of the end zone), and pointed out other problems when he didn't deserve critisism (lack of running game or recievers dropping passes). I still maintain that he is continuing to get better as a QB and should do well in BMore. However, I view him as a backstabber and wish him the worst...

06-25-2001, 10:01 AM
I was always a Grbasher, that truely did want him to prove me wrong. I wanted us to keep Gannon and toss Guhrbac. I bit my tounge through most of last season. (with the exception of a few outbursts) I am glad we moved on and feel that this will be a good call in the long run. He just lacked too many skills you need in a QB. Leadership skills. The ability to see more than one receiver ect.

Clint in Wichita
06-25-2001, 10:56 AM
I was & still am a Grbasher. I have been since about week 4 or 5 of the '98 season. I was incredibly glad when he left, even if it meant starting Todd Collins.

I'd rather go 4-12 with Collins than 8-8 with Grbac.

BTW, I'm not getting into a debate here, but Grbac's arm IS NOT, AND NEVER HAS BEEN especially strong. It's not especially bad, but around 60 yards is his upper limit, like many run-of-the-mill QBs. I think we saw so much of Montana, Bono, and Gannon that when a guy with average arm strength finally came around, many Chiefs fans were mesmerized.

06-25-2001, 11:28 AM
I have been bashing Elvis since the 1996 playoff game versus Green Bay when he threw two ints in the first half to help the Packers on their super bowl run. The guy is a loser. He did the Chiefs a huge favor by leaving town and going to the Ravens. I doubt the Ravens will win a playoff game with Grbac under center.

I remember last season after the 2nd lowest rated MNF game in its history (Chiefs vs Pats), many Chief fans blamed the coaching staff for Elvis throwing 8 yards short of the end zone on the last play of the game. Not me. I jumped all over Elvis because he made the read and made the throw. Fact is, you always have someone come underneath on every pass play. It shouldnt have been Gonzo, but somebody has got to keep the linebackers honest. It was Grbacs fault and his fault only for making that play.

Some of the same people that blamed the "stooges" for that play then, rip Elvis now. For many KC fans, their attitudes of the players change dramatically after that player departs.

Elvis is just another example.

06-25-2001, 11:58 AM
I hated the Girlbac signing from the start.

I was sick and fuggin tired of that 49er pipeline for QB's running from San Fran to KC.

Do you all realize that this will be the first year that our starting QB is NOT an ex-9er since 93? That is amazing to me.

Plus, Grbac had a history of playing horrible in big games w/ the 9ers. His physical tools are overrated and his mental tools are almost non-existant.

I am sooooooooooo glad that Grbac and Glock are gone. Hell yes!!!

06-25-2001, 12:06 PM
NEVER been a fan since DAY 1. I supported him because he was the QB of my team. I was in favor of keeping Rich. I'm so glad he's gone. :cool:

06-25-2001, 01:10 PM
I was a backer and a defender. He was our starting QB and I didn't think bashing him was productive to the well-being of my team.

I found fault with his method of departure and the negative things he said about the organization after he left. Then he blew a bunch of BS up the arse of the B-more organization about leadership, knowing how to win championships, and how he made Gonzo into a Pro-bowler....

Color me a basher now but don't say I flip on ALL former players (packfan). If I turn on a player, it's for a good reason.

Recent departees I've had nothing but praise for:
Glock (although I'm glad he's gone, I haven't bashed him)
Bennett (don't hate him, just don't think he's a good ball carrier)

06-25-2001, 01:20 PM

Thanks for reminding me of the NE game :mad: That was the most embarassing moment of Grbac's career (I hope - for his sake). At the end of a sh!tty game on MNF, he had to do that :rolleyes:. I defended Grbac when I thought it was justified. He learned to scramble some last season, frequently went to his 2nd or 3rd read on many plays and even pump-faked once or twice :eek:. He threw costly INTs in a few games last season, but I argued that most QBs would in that offense, with that running game. What was frustrating was that so many fans ignored that he had improved to the point he was doing many of the things they bitched about him not being able to do. And then he'd turn around and make that bonehead throw to give a game away. A Grbackers work was never done!

06-25-2001, 01:34 PM
I was a Grbacker only because he was our QB. If we didn't support him, he wouldn't get any better. But I also knew his inabilities, and knew if it got to be a tight game I might as well turn off the TV.

It was really frustrating to hear him booed in Arrowhead. No wonder he wanted out. Even if he did good somebody would give a reason to get rid of him.

The fact is, he's gone, and I think it's for the better (for us that is).

He's a big talker now and the fans love him there but I believe he will have the same problems as here, get a good hate-base going, and be "Modelized".

BTW - go to their website and vote for whom you would like to see at QB this year! :D

Ravenszone (http://www.ravenszone.net)

06-25-2001, 02:10 PM
Kphob, Where did Elvis say he made Gonzo a pro bowler? I'd like to read that. LOL Contrar, I can't wait to see how well he does without is security blanket. If it wasn't for TonyG Elvis would've had about 2000 yards passing last year. Shannon Sharpe was great in his prime but he is no TonyG and I can't wait to hear what he'll say after he blows his first game and blames somebody else after. It will be very amusing.

PhilFree :cool:

06-25-2001, 02:21 PM
I booed Grbac at home. He deserved it. I am glad I did because maybe he would still be here if I didnt. I bashed him from the first finger he pointed. I (and many more like me) took a lot of heat for not supporting our QB, but in the end the bashers were right and Grbac himself proved it. I feel vindicated. If Green leads us to no playoff victories, points fingers at others, sits out for a sore finger, and plays like a dog I will boo him as well. If, on the other hand, he leads us to the promised land I will be his biggest supporter. I feel no obligation to blindly champion a player who is not performing after years and years of opportunity. I will anticipate Grbackers pointing to his 4000 yards and respond with 2 names...Jeff George and Scott Mitchell. I would have booed them also.

06-25-2001, 02:22 PM
I was a Grbacker. I thought the fans love affair with Gannon was ridiculous. Gannon is a great person and a good QB for the Raiders system. GAnnon's dink, dunk and run for your life style had no place in the Chiefs system. I thought Grbac got a raw deal at first. The fans were terrible to him. He was making progress but his inability to make quick decisions and "lead" this team was frustrating. I don't blame him for leaving. He went to where he thinks the grass is greener and where he can get big bucks. He should however, learn to keep his pie hole shut. The Ravens will not be any worse with Grbac as the QB. Wish him well except for when the CHiefs play him. I can tell you that I will root for him when it is Oakland vs. Baltimore. GAnnon's leaving was for the money, so was Grbac's.
I am now a Green backer. I love this guy's attitude.
Go Chiefs

06-25-2001, 02:25 PM
I know that most of you guys are excited that Trent Green is here. And the fact that he doesnt have any history with the Chiefs means that he will get support from the hometown fans until his first down and out is returned by a DB for a touchdown.

Let me caution you to not get your hopes up to high. Remember what Trent Green is. He is a career backup, who has never played in the playoffs, has had a serious knee injury, is 30 years old, and was a free agent twice in his career. When given the opportunity, he has failed (Washington, St Louis). Also, remember what weapons the Chiefs have for him: Gonzalez............. thats about it. No running game, and a rebuilt offensive line and a defensive that gives up points way to easily.

Dick Vermeil isnt enough. You need talent first and foremost. The Chiefs are really lacking in that department.

I expect Chief fans to want to run Trent Green out of town by the sixth game. Why Chief fans rarely want to run the architect (Peterson) of this mess out of town is beyond me.

06-25-2001, 02:37 PM
blah, blah, blah...Carl Peterson...blah, blah, blah...

06-25-2001, 02:37 PM
I was a Grbacker even when he was a 49er QB. I though he got a crappy deal there and I think he got an even crappier deal from the KC fans. I've seen rabid wolves with better table manners than the Grbitchers show here and at the Star BB.

Sure, he could have been better. I've never gone on record thinking he was a Hall-of-Fame QB. But I think he was a lot better than people were willing to admit, and he was a lot better than what was available (limp arm St. Gannon, I think not). I did notice a LOT of the Grbashers were awfully damn quiet during the season, only crawling out to take the occasional snipe shot and then retreat.

And besides, even if I hadn't been a fan of his before he came to KC, a certain female Gannon stalker would have quickly turned me into one. :D

I'll enjoy getting to watch him up here in Baltimore and I wish him the best. You can say what you want, I remain fully convinced that the Chiefs front office had picked Green to be the QB from the <b>DAY</b> Vermiel was hired and there was no real intent on rehiring Elvis. I don't blame him for moving on and I think he'll be better off under Billick and KC's current plans on offense will be better off under Green.

IYRC, I was anti-Green from the go. I didn't want him, but now that he's here, he's my QB and he'll get all the support I can give him. I'm still not personally convinced about Green, but at least from a PR perspective he's saying all the right things.... let's see if he can walk the walk.

06-25-2001, 02:38 PM

Steve Young, Brett Favre, Trent Dilfer, Kurt Warner, and Jeff Hostetler are examples of recent back-ups who lead their teams to a Superbowl victory when given the chance to start. But your point is valid. I disagree that he has failed when given the chance. He has played quite well for someone with only about a season and a half of starting on his resume.

06-25-2001, 03:27 PM
I was a Grbacker. I echo King_Chief_Fan's well-put reply.

I'm cautiously optimistic regarding Green.

Clint in Wichita
06-25-2001, 03:45 PM
I don't see what is so great about the Raiders, or their system.

They went 13-3, won the division, then got punked at home by the eventual champs.

I'm sure this sounds VEEEERY familiar to all Chief fans.

06-25-2001, 04:17 PM

The Raiders did something the Chiefs havent done in 8 years:

Win a playoff game. Enough said.

Mr Blond,

Besides Warner, those other names mentioned had to play for a few years before super bowl success kicked in. I doubt that the Chiefs will have the patience with Green to wait a few years and ink him to another long term deal without any playoff success. I think Green will be gone within three years. Very rarely does a Peterson QB make it past 3 years in KC.

Clint in Wichita
06-25-2001, 06:26 PM
They got punked at home by the eventual champs. The only difference between the '97 Chiefs and the '00 Raiders is this: The Chiefs were unfortuate enough to play the eventual champs in the second round instead of the conference championship.

At least the Chiefs put up a good fight...they didn't roll over the way Oakland did after Gannon got mashed.

06-25-2001, 06:40 PM
First, to respond to the question posed in the topic, GrBacker or GrBasher is so black and white, it leaves no gray area.

I supported Grbac, and hoped that he would become the kind of QB that we all hope to have in KC, but at the same time was painfully aware of his many shortcomings.

Now, on to Pacfan. where do you come up with the crap you post?

A couple of people say some negative things about former Chiefs, and you turn it into all Chiefs fans turn on these guys.

I challenge you to find more than a handful, at best, that have something negative to say about Lockett.
I challenge you to find anyone that thinks that Albert Lewis was less than an outstanding CB.

Or find a few people that were glad to see Tounge go to Seattle.

Those are just a couple of examples.
Maybe some people will give you some respect when you stop putting everyone in the same basket.

Baby Lee
06-25-2001, 07:23 PM
Shannon Sharpe was great in his prime but he is no TonyG

No, but Todd Heap may one day be.

This will be a good chance to see if Grbac has grown any. Heap gots the goods. Remains to be seen if Grbac helps him grow or punks him on the occasion of his inevitable growing pains.

06-25-2001, 07:44 PM
I supported Grbac during his tenure in KC for the simple fact that he was our QB. I tried to keep my outlook positive and focus more on his "progress" rather than his many shortcomings. Do I believe that he had the potential to be successful in the new offense? Yes. Even with that being said, I am not at all disappointed in the fact that he's gone.

Even though Trent Green hasn't taken a single regular season snap as our starting QB, he has already shown more in terms of class and leadership than Grbac ever did while he was here. He is truly embracing Kansas City as his home and the Chiefs as his team.

With as much talking as Elvis has been doing in Baltimore, he had better live up to his own hype. If he thought that the fans in KC were rough, imagine what it will be like if he doesn't perform as well as Dilfer.

Personally, I would love to see him fail.

Chiefs Pantalones
06-25-2001, 07:50 PM
I was a Grbac fan the whole time he was with KC, now...he is not, so I'm not a Grbac fan anymore.


couldn't put it more simpler than that:)

06-25-2001, 09:21 PM
Your take mirrors everything I was going to say.

My frustration with CHIEFS fans started with the playoff game ELVIS started when most thought GANNON should have. MARTY was adamant about his starting QB playing if healthy and I supported that decision 100%. Listening to fans blame ELVIS after that game was rediculous. He had a great game. I found myself defending him from then on. The constant finger pointing was sometimes founded but usually not.

I also felt ELVIS better suited our O scheme over RICH. We didn't need a "top" QB just a guy who would do the job within the framework of the scheme. We were a "smashmouth" team who looked to go downfield with the pass attack and work from within the pocket. ELVIS was bigger, stronger, had a better arm and was a natural pocket passer.

That being said, ELVIS showed an inability to overcome his flaws in 2000 when GUN turned him loose. I saw this but still backed him 100% mainly because he showed a weak psyche and needed all the support he could get. I hoped he could overcome his demons.

I supported the GREEN deal for the same reason I supported GRBAC in the beginning. GREEN is the better choice for the O scheme. IMO, ELVIS is not suited for the multi-option, quick read, precision timing offense we are now implementing.

KS Smitty
06-25-2001, 10:32 PM
Never liked him. never will. Has nothing to do with performance more with personality, of which he has none.

06-25-2001, 10:48 PM
KCPhilly, did we watch the same playoff game? Elvis blew it. Deer-in-the-Headlights Syndrome.

06-25-2001, 10:52 PM

I tried to find that old topic that Grbac said he helped Gonzo develop into a probowler but couldn't.

He definitely said it, there are plenty of people that saw the same ESPN article I did.

06-25-2001, 11:27 PM

Check Grbac knows what it takes to win a chumpionship.

06-26-2001, 10:07 AM
I watched the responses yesterday, and I found them quite interesting. When I first saw this thread, I asked myself, why anyone would care and what the need for this thread was, but then I realized that we're in the Sahara Desert of the football season and we needed something to talk about.

To that end, rather than discuss the past, I wanted to bring to light something I've noticed this offseason. The apparent 'pass' that has been issued to Green. He's really got no more 'starting' creditentials than Grbac and he comes in after a major knee operation 2 years ago. If KC goes below 500, will Green get the kind of blame that Grbac did? If KC goes to the playoffs this season and loses in round 1 will Green get the same castigation?

It will be interesting to see this coming season just how long it will take before the pitchforks and torches are out.

Clint in Wichita
06-26-2001, 10:18 AM
It just depends on whether or not Green makes stupid mistakes that costs the team wins.

06-26-2001, 10:25 AM
My guess is that fans will be more tolerant of Green than Grbac. As unfair as that sounds, it will happen. Green has said and done things that suit folks. He does not have the hoof and mouth disease that Grbac had. People will recognize Green is better for how he acts, what he says and how well he performs in the pressure situations. These for sure were some of Elvis' weak points.

06-26-2001, 10:29 AM
I agree with Clint. It depends on how he handles himself and of the nature of the loss. If he makes it a habit to... throw a 5 yard pass when it is 3rd & 8 or drive all the way down the field and throw an interception, etc.....then yes, the criticism will probably come out.

06-26-2001, 10:31 AM
I see, and how many mistakes would that be? According to your earlier responses, it took 5 weeks for you to fail to hope for anything but failure for the entire team for the next 2 years. In 5 weeks, KC was 4-1 and Grbac had been sidelined with an injury.

The only stupid mistake that cost KC games that year was with 3 seconds left before the half leading 17-3 Marty decided to run a hail mary play that got Grbac injured and he wasnt the same that year. If you want to fault Grbac for getting hurt, then you should be against Green being here right now.

06-26-2001, 10:37 AM
KCF: agreed, but all the talk in the world doesnt win games. Grbac definately doesnt win the popularity contest or the public speaking awards, but that shouldnt preclude one from still hoping for the player or team for that matter to succeed rather than failure.

47: Im allways amazed by that scenario. We did that with Marty and with Gannon, what makes you think it was just a function of Grbac's mind to throw under the sticks. I hope Vermeil and Co. tries to go 9 yds on a 3rd and 8. We all know throwing short/swing pass wont work. There's no reason not to criticize for throwing a bad pass/interception after driving the field. Does that mean you spend the rest of his tenure criticizing him unjustly for things that are beyond his control?

06-26-2001, 10:45 AM

I'll say this, right now I'm shaking Green's hand, with firmly gripped flaming pitchfork in the other.

One mistake that resembles ignorance may just be a mistake. I see Green "throw up" like Elvis in three two minute situations this year, I'm saying "I told you so!"

I didn't support the Green trade on the basis of Cost and Green's health. One trick shot to that knee and we're back in the qb business again. It's obvious by now he's going to be a better leader and lockerroom presence than Elvis, but can he stay healthy and produce?

I said no.

Now, I'm here to support him and pray he proves me wrong. It happens sometimes....:D

06-26-2001, 10:58 AM
Brad: Agreed, there are a lot of questions. However, is it realistic to expect miracles this season? Should Green not be allowed to make a mistake or two? Im not saying that anyone should be down on the guy at this point, because none of us have seen him take a snap with this FB team in a game or preseason game.

Some on this thread stated they hated Grbac from day one. There really hasnt been that level of animosity against Green. I find it interesting why not.

Clint in Wichita
06-26-2001, 10:59 AM
If KC signed Peyton Manning, and he had a bad year, I'd bash him, too.

I'm sick and tired of sub-par QBs starting for KC, and I won't tolerate it!!:mad:

06-26-2001, 11:03 AM
Ok, so after Peyton's first year as a colt, the team went 3-13 and Manning led the league in Int's that year. The following year, Indy goes out in the first round of the playoffs (home game) and last year he failed to win in the playoffs.

Based on that, you should be bashing him now.

06-26-2001, 11:09 AM
the big difference is that Green is not SUPPOSED to make any learning mistakes, he's not suppose to slip up, he IS SUPPOSED to come in IMMEDIATELY and be able to produce. That is exaclty what DV/CP have said is WHY he was worth the 12 pick. He doesn't need a learning curve, he already knows the system, he's the second comming of Jesus, etc....

06-26-2001, 11:10 AM
I was a Girlbac supporter by the way...

That is, until he MADE THE DECISION not to come back to KC.....

06-26-2001, 11:16 AM
Ok, Brad. So you're saying that if Green doesnt take KC to the playoffs this year, he's not worth the 12th pick? This would be the equivalent of the Grbac criticisms of yesteryear...unrealistic.

He may know the 'system', but the 'system' means nada if you dont have the cast. He will not have a Marshall Faulk and now he's sans a #2 WR, although it's hopefull that Minnis will fill the void.

Let's use Clint's Peyton Manning as an example. He was the #1 pick overall in the draft. His first year he comes in and goes 3-13. Shouldnt a #1 overall pick do better than that? It seems that's what some KC fans expect. The following year, Peyton with E James gets homefield through the playoffs only to lose in the first round...SURELY that would warrant his being ridden out on a rail, but no. So next year, he fails to win a playoff game, again. How can this be? a #1 overall draft pick? Unacceptable should be the cries, right? That's what KC fans do.

06-26-2001, 11:16 AM
One trick shot to any QBs knee and he is most likely out of the game. If Elvis gets his shoulder smashed in the ground he's most likely out as will be Warner if he takes a shot to the head. Greene held up when he played last year and the surgery he had this year wasn't nearly as serious as his first. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping that this is the twist of fate that will get us to the promise land.

PhilFree :cool:

06-26-2001, 11:26 AM
Former Grbac supporter...

The only thing that I regret is that we finally developed Grbac into a decent QB, and then are unable to retain him.

One thing I think a lot of people forget to consider is that when Jimmy 'Can't Call a Play' called the plays, the Chiefs O sputtered... when Elvis called the plays, it flourished.

I place most of the blame for the inconsistency of the Chiefs O, and consequently, Elvis Grbac's inconsistency, squarely on the shoulders of Jimmy 'Can't Call a Play' Raye.

Clint in Wichita
06-26-2001, 11:30 AM

Peyton WON'T have a bad season unless he's plays too many years. He WON'T make the incredibly stupid plays, like throwing to the 8 yard line as time expires, scrambling towards the sideline & throwing the ball away AFTER stepping out of bounds, etc. He's actually a good QB...something Elvis is not IMO.

BTW, I don't bash QBs that don't have Chief ties because I simply don't care about them one way or the other.

06-26-2001, 11:54 AM
What do you mean, he 'wont'. He already has had 3.

That's seems to be 3 more than you gave Grbac, and yes, Peyton has made just as many 'stupid' mistakes like INT's for TD's etc, it's just that you refuse to level the same criticisms at him because 'he's a good QB'...apparently 'good' means something different to you.

As far as bashing him, I meant you should not be wanting him to be on KC since he's such a 'failure'--using your 'grbac' criterion.

06-26-2001, 12:00 PM
Let's not forget that...

In 98 Grbac had five TD's and 12 ints. His QB rating was second worst in the league next to Cryan Leaf. He led the league in ints returned for TD's. He then blamed his teammates for his failures [This is when my hated of this albatross peaked to an all time high]

In 99, the "leash" was then wrapped tightly around Grbac's neck. He was protected in the offense. We ran the ball on 3rd and long to protect Grbac's weak psyche. He gained some confidence. He showed some improvement.

In 00, we passed much more than we had in the past and the confidence Grbac gained in 99 helped him have a very good statistical season. However, he still made numerous bonehead decisions in games, i.e. throwing short of the end zone w/ no time left, stepping out of bounds before throwing the ball, costly ints in crucial situations etc.

Grbac still has yet to prove he can be counted on consistantly in the clutch. I admit that he has improved overall, to a high degree. But until he comes through in a big game or in tight games he'll be nothing more than an above average QB that can put decent numbers in the regular season. [Jeff George].

Overall, he crumbled under pressure during games in KC, and he also crumbled under the pressure the fans put on him. In Baltimore, the pressure in games and the pressure by the fans will be much, much higher and we shall see if he has somehow gained a "heart" and if he will be able to handle it.

I seriously doubt it. He's a spineless jellyfish IMO.

06-26-2001, 12:03 PM
Lets' also not forget that Grbac came off of shoulder separation in 1998 which had a direct impact on his play in 1998.

Grbac still has yet to prove he can be counted on consistantly in the clutch. I admit that he has improved overall, to a high degree. But until he comes through in a big game or in tight games he'll be nothing more than an above average QB that can put decent numbers in the regular season. [Jeff George].

Agreed, however the same could be said about Peyton Manning.

06-26-2001, 12:09 PM
I think Grbac is in for rude awakening in Baltimore.

Clint in Wichita
06-26-2001, 12:13 PM
Manning broke almost every significant record for rookie QBs (before Edgerrin James came along), and it was a better season than either of Grbac's first 2 with the Chiefs, thanks in part to Grbac's apparently fragile shoulders. Manning has been a better QB than Grbac since his junior year at Tennessee IMO.

Manning is not perfect, but IMO he is at a whole other level than Grbac.

It's like comparing Dan Marino to Jeff George.

06-26-2001, 12:27 PM
Sorry, Clint. I dont remember Grbac ever going 3-13. Im not trying to compare the two, rather Im trying to apply your 'grbac' criticisms to a QB you brought up as a 'good' one, 'IYO'.

Bottom line, here is you 'believe' that Manning is better, but right now, he hasnt done anything to prove he's any better than Grbac. ie, no playoff wins. Dan Marino and Jeff George have also won the same number of Super Bowls. --these criticisms are silly, but Im trying to prove a point.

Cannibal: you could be right.

06-26-2001, 12:29 PM
Manning is Grbac's equal statwise while 6 years younger and despite Grbac's tutorial in SF under Montana and Young. Manning is more durable while playing behind a less talented O-line. Grbac cant hold a candle to Mannings leadership skills. Ask a million fans, coaches, GMs, players, trainers, ushers, and announcers which of the two they would prefer and I bet Grbac gets 1 vote. Gunther. Just because he played sleeveless.

06-26-2001, 12:32 PM
So even though Manning has failed in the same number of attempts that Grbac has had in the playoffs, Manning is still not a failure because of his 'leadership skills'. Wouldnt a 'good' leader win a game rather than lose it?

06-26-2001, 12:42 PM
If Grbac fails to lead that team back to the Super Bowl, he will be labeled as a failure/loser. I predict he wont even get a playoff win. He thought the fans in KC were bad. Just wait. The expectations are a hell of a lot higher in Balt. than in KC. KC fans are just looking for a measley playoff win. Baltimore fans expect another Super Bowl win, especially now with what they think is a better QB.

Grbac wants a ring and wants to do as little as possible to get it. He sees Dilfer getting a ring and thinks that any QB (beside Banks) can QB that team.

But Grbac is gone now. Just another in a long line of failures at the QB position for Carl. Now its time to see what the next castoff can do.

Clint in Wichita
06-26-2001, 12:43 PM
The fact is, Grbac is a bad quarterback AND he's a stupid jerk.

I will never like him. I was fully ready to watch Todd Collins start with a smile on my face as long as Grbac was out of KC.

I'd rather watch a 3-13 team led by Collins than a 7-9 team "led" by Grbac.

06-26-2001, 12:46 PM
It's not a fact, it's your opinion. I dont think he's great, but I dont think he's bad either. He's improving, but he has failed in the clutch to this point.

I dont understand this infatuation with losing either. Like Proctor, you'd rather lose with a bad program than win...that also makes no sense to me--how does failure bring anyone joy?

Why not just be honest, admit that no matter how good of a player the Grbac was, you personally detested him and that you're glad he's gone. Why wrap it up in some excuse about his play? Hells bells, if you're willing to watch your 'favorite' team go 3-13 with an even worse QB, obviously, your dislike has nothing to do with his football abilities.

06-26-2001, 12:55 PM

"How does failure bring anyone joy.."

Sometimes you have to fail before you can have success. I think I would rather have failure with a clear cut plan to improve then spin my wheels and watch the Chiefs win 7-9 games every year with different coaches, QBs, and Running Backs. The fact is, the Chiefs have no super bowl plan. Their plan is to win 7 to 9 games. Thats how they are built because that is what it takes to keep the seats full. How embarrassing would it be for Carl and Lamarr to have a half filled Arrowhead? I think they would be more embarrassed by that then they would with a 4-12 record.

Clearly the Chiefs are in need for a total rebuilding. And trading the 12th pick in the draft for a 30 year old castoff is not how you rebuild.

keg in kc
06-26-2001, 01:11 PM
Maybe we should have followed the 'Pecker plan for the future" and given a 100 million dollar contract to a 32 year old QB who hasn't sniffed an 80 rating in two years. I'd sure feel safe, though, with terrific QBotF candidate Jonathan Beasley . He's so talented that he went undrafted. You'd better hope ex-CFLer Burris pans out and that Doug Peterson doesn't run out of Geritol before season's end.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black, a Pecker fan telling another team they need to rebuild.

06-26-2001, 01:15 PM
I would have rather won a playoff game with Grbac, but it didnt happen and wasnt going to happen anytime soon. (IMO)

06-26-2001, 01:22 PM
Agreed, MrBlond. I do think however that Grbac stood a better chance with Vermeil and Co. rather than Gun and co.

In the end, I think it was best for all involved that Grbac is gone from KC.

Taco John
10-17-2002, 01:20 AM
Here is a fun blast from the past...

10-17-2002, 06:40 AM
Originally posted by Cannibal
I think Grbac is in for rude awakening in Baltimore.

Miss Cloie errrrrr Cannibal,
Will I get that big promotion?;)

10-17-2002, 08:23 AM
'I don't recall.'- Ollie North


10-17-2002, 08:25 AM
Anti-Girlbac always.

10-17-2002, 08:54 AM
Ok, thanks for reminding me, BD. ;)

I was and remain a Grbasherextraordinaire.