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View Full Version : Is it just me or is our offense getting worse?


KCJohnny
11-12-2007, 11:55 AM
I don't know if its just perspective but it sure as heck feels like our offense is actually getting worse as the season progresses. Have we even gained 300 yds in a single game this year?

At this rate, when we go 3 out of the last 4 on the road, we could be looking at some scary bad stats, maybe even shut outs.

Oh, how the mighty have fallen! Chiefs O ranked #30.

And the other "is it just me?" observation:

Is the defense wearing out? They look run down and tired a lot. Their stats are in decline as well. I don't blame them. When your offense leads the NFL in 3-and-outs, it's tough sledding for your defense.
Chiefs D slides to #19 in the NFL (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=TOTAL_YARDS&season=2007&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find).

Go Chiefs!
KCJ
:arrow:

Reerun_KC
11-12-2007, 11:58 AM
Its going to be Okay KCJohnny..... /Herm

Wile_E_Coyote
11-12-2007, 12:00 PM
Rally round the young QB men, RALLY! I see a gleam

Chiefnj2
11-12-2007, 12:01 PM
The defense was fortunate to play some poor and struggling offenses early in the year.

RedThat
11-12-2007, 12:03 PM
The defense was fortunate to play some poor and struggling offenses early in the year.

This week should be a good test.

DaKCMan AP
11-12-2007, 12:04 PM
Rally round the young QB men, RALLY! I see a gleam

Rally round the family, with pockets full of shells.

Nzoner
11-12-2007, 12:07 PM
At this rate, when we go 3 out of the last 4 on the road, we could be looking at some scary bad stats, maybe even shut outs.


I don't think there's any need to wait until December,next week at a pissed off Indy could be an asskicking for the ages.Even a coach like Dungy may keep piling it on just to get the bad taste out of the Colt's mouths.

RedThat
11-12-2007, 12:11 PM
Were so dead next week.

41-0

TEX
11-12-2007, 12:12 PM
I don't know if its just perspective but it sure as heck feels like our offense is actually getting worse as the season progresses. Have we even gained 300 yds in a single game this year?

At this rate, when we go 3 out of the last 4 on the road, we could be looking at some scary bad stats, maybe even shut outs.

Oh, how the mighty have fallen! Chiefs O ranked #30.

And the other "is it just me?" observation:

Is the defense wearing out? They look run down and tired a lot. Their stats are in decline as well. I don't blame them. When your offense leads the NFL in 3-and-outs, it's tough sledding for your defense.
Chiefs D slides to #19 in the NFL (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=TOTAL_YARDS&season=2007&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find).

Go Chiefs!
KCJ
:arrow:

Don't worry - we're still keeping things vanilla. Once the regular season starts, you'll see our "real" offense! ROFL

BTW - you are correct. Our offense is getting worse, and we still have a half season to go. We're so pathetic that it made Denver's _efense look good. :shake:

BigChiefFan
11-12-2007, 12:13 PM
Rally round the family, with pockets full of shells.
Some of you guys really are funny as Hell. Love the rage reference.

Reerun_KC
11-12-2007, 12:15 PM
Don't worry - we're still keeping things vanilla. Once the regular season starts, you'll see our "real" offense! ROFL

BTW - you are correct. Our offense is getting worse, and we still have a half season to go. We're so pathetic that it made Denver's _efense look good. :shake:


Herm has a real NFL offense? / 31 NFL Coaches and OC's

TEX
11-12-2007, 12:16 PM
Were so dead next week.

41-0

What's th early line? Colts by 20?

RedThat
11-12-2007, 12:19 PM
What's th early line? Colts by 20?

I have no idea.

philfree
11-12-2007, 12:20 PM
To me Huard had more time yesterday to make reads then he's had the previous 8 games. He's gotten worse and that makes our offense worse.

PhilFree:arrow:

Nzoner
11-12-2007, 12:20 PM
I have no idea.

Indy -14.5

Reerun_KC
11-12-2007, 12:23 PM
Indy -14.5


have a good feeling that Indy is going to take us to the
http://www.constructionownerslawblog.com/Collins_School-Woodshed.jpg

MahiMike
11-12-2007, 12:25 PM
It's taken a season and a half for Herm's machine to be fully implemented. I think we're there now. Enjoy.

88TG88
11-12-2007, 12:26 PM
Rally round the family, with pockets full of shells.
rep for RATM

B2chiefsfan
11-12-2007, 12:27 PM
Just start Brodie and never look back.......is it time to start "Next Season" threads yet...?

Reerun_KC
11-12-2007, 12:28 PM
It's taken a season and a half for Herm's machine to be fully implemented. I think we're there now. Enjoy.

This is a typical Herm team.. What you are watching is the same exact thing NYJ fans watched the last 3 years of Herm's tenure in NYJ.

I would be glad to send Herm back to NYJ with another 4th...

KCJohnny
11-12-2007, 12:28 PM
Humiliating stat:

In our last 2 home games, we averaged 4 yards per play.

Four.

That's not 4 yards per running play, that's 4 yards per game play.

:banghead:

Count Zarth
11-12-2007, 12:29 PM
This is a typical Herm team.. What you are watching is the same exact thing NYJ fans watched the last 3 years of Herm's tenure in NYJ.

I would be glad to send Herm back to NYJ with another 4th...

:rolleyes:

Now that Huard is left for dead, all the attention focuses on Herm.

I can tell the last seven games are going to see an epic battle between the Herm haters and defenders.

Reerun_KC
11-12-2007, 12:31 PM
:rolleyes:

Now that Huard is left for dead, all the attention focuses on Herm.

I can tell the last seven games are going to see an epic battle between the Herm haters and defenders.


Add me to the Herm hater club list. I have been a Herm hater for since he started coaching in NYJ.

Count Zarth
11-12-2007, 12:32 PM
Add me to the Herm hater club list. I have been a Herm hater for since he started coaching in NYJ.

Can you please change your sig? It's disrespectful.

Nzoner
11-12-2007, 12:32 PM
Add me to the Herm hater club list. I have been a Herm hater for since he started coaching in NYJ.

No shit,if i hadn't already decided to give up my season tiks a couple of seasons ago the hiring of Herm would've done it anyhow

Reerun_KC
11-12-2007, 12:34 PM
Can you please change your sig? It's disrespectful.


Give me another one? You gave me that one...

Reerun_KC
11-12-2007, 12:36 PM
No shit,if i hadn't already decided to give up my season tiks a couple of seasons ago the hiring of Herm would've done it anyhow


Just pissed me off that it was a chance to get out from under the Martha coaching tree... Chance for Carl to leave a positive mark on the chiefs during his last 4 years. he could of rode of into the sunset as "at least he gave it one more solid try", now he will ride off as a spineless chickenshit not willing to take a chance.

I am sick of the Martha coaching tree....

Count Zarth
11-12-2007, 12:37 PM
Give me another one? You gave me that one...

I supplied your avatar.

Zouk
11-12-2007, 12:45 PM
This is a typical Herm team.. What you are watching is the same exact thing NYJ fans watched the last 3 years of Herm's tenure in NYJ.

I would be glad to send Herm back to NYJ with another 4th...

The last 3 years? Like when they were a kick away from the AFC title game?

FAX
11-12-2007, 12:46 PM
In a word, Mr. KCJohnny, yes.

If I'm reading the stats correctly, Downfield's passer rating from yesterday's game was 18.9. I don't care who your quarterback is, it takes a total commitment to a high level of professional incompetence by every player and coach involved to accomplish something like that.

FAX

FringeNC
11-12-2007, 12:49 PM
The last 3 years? Like when they were a kick away from the AFC title game?

Rich Kotite and Norv Turner have won playoff games, too.

Mr. Laz
11-12-2007, 12:50 PM
I don't know if its just perspective but it sure as heck feels like our offense is actually getting worse as the season progresses.

http://www.pongalong.com/beerblog/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/hermEdwards.jpg

xbarretx
11-12-2007, 12:52 PM
I don't know if its just perspective but it sure as heck feels like our offense is actually getting worse as the season progresses. Have we even gained 300 yds in a single game this year?

At this rate, when we go 3 out of the last 4 on the road, we could be looking at some scary bad stats, maybe even shut outs.

Oh, how the mighty have fallen! Chiefs O ranked #30.

And the other "is it just me?" observation:

Is the defense wearing out? They look run down and tired a lot. Their stats are in decline as well. I don't blame them. When your offense leads the NFL in 3-and-outs, it's tough sledding for your defense.
Chiefs D slides to #19 in the NFL (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=TOTAL_YARDS&season=2007&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find).

Go Chiefs!
KCJ
:arrow:

think of it as a CARDIO enima for the comming years :deevee:
our D should be in fantastic shape for next year :o)

KCJohnny
11-12-2007, 12:54 PM
In a word, Mr. KCJohnny, yes.

If I'm reading the stats correctly, Downfield's passer rating from yesterday's game was 18.9. I don't care who your quarterback is, it takes a total commitment to a high level of professional incompetence by every player and coach involved to accomplish something like that.

FAX

I agree. The donkeys had triple teams on Gonzales and a safety helping cover Bowe who still came up with 9 grabs for 110 yards. I wasn't at the game, but on TV it sure looked like our guys just were not getting open.

Zouk
11-12-2007, 12:54 PM
Rich Kotite and Norv Turner have won playoff games, too.

They haven't gone to the playoffs as consistently as Herm, even though he's been saddled with poor QBs.

Or maybe you're right. Playoffs doesn't matter. We should judge coaches by how they talk in press conferences and how they pronounce the word "swollen".

Chiefnj2
11-12-2007, 12:58 PM
They haven't gone to the playoffs as consistently as Herm, even though he's been saddled with poor QBs.

Or maybe you're right. Playoffs doesn't matter. We should judge coaches by how they talk in press conferences and how they pronounce the word "swollen".

Herm isn't at fault for the QB mess???

Zouk
11-12-2007, 01:04 PM
Herm isn't at fault for the QB mess???

No, not really. What did he inherit? A broken down Trent Green, Todd Collins, and Huard. He drafted Croyle and has given him every chance to win the job. But Croyle was beyond miserable in the preseason. Booed off the field at Arrowhead.

Now, just halfway into his 2nd year, he's getting a chance to start. That's way earlier than virtually all 3rd round pick QBs get a chance.

We'll see how he does.

FAX
11-12-2007, 01:10 PM
They haven't gone to the playoffs as consistently as Herm, even though he's been saddled with poor QBs.

Or maybe you're right. Playoffs doesn't matter. We should judge coaches by how they talk in press conferences and how they pronounce the word "swollen".

As a charter, full-fledged, card-carrying, dues-paid-up Chiefs homer, I appreciate your point of view, Mr. Zouk. But, honestly, Herm doesn't deserve a pass on this deal.

The Chiefs are up to their mons in stale monkey sh*t. If it weren't for JA, the defense would be anything to write home about. The offense is in shambles (we have no running game, no passing game, and very questionable coaching). Then there are our special teams, which are just plain stupid (HOF punter notwithstanding).

On top of all that, Herm has lied to us consistently since he came on the scene. But overlooking that sad fact, I sincerely want to believe that his 1940s approach to game management can work. But, at this point, I think it's fair to say that either his plan isn't working or there really is no plan.

Anyhow, when a guy uses terms like "flustrated", "theirselves", and "swole", and admits that he "don't even have a internet", I have to question his basic intelligence.

FAX

FringeNC
11-12-2007, 01:12 PM
They haven't gone to the playoffs as consistently as Herm, even though he's been saddled with poor QBs.

Or maybe you're right. Playoffs doesn't matter. We should judge coaches by how they talk in press conferences and how they pronounce the word "swollen".

Arguing whether Herm is a good coach or not is pointless. I don't think he is; you do. My problem with your argument is that you cite Herm's playoff teams as undeniable evidence that Herm is a good coach. I can counter by saying no one really wanted Herm but us. He certainly was not in high demand then or now.

And I don't buy the rebuilding argument; teams turn over their rosters and remain competitive -- look at Philly, Pittsburgh, and of course New England. This talk of giving Herm more time -- why? What is he building here? The defense is average at best. Without Allen it'd be bad. The offense is atrocious.

Generally speaking, you see immediate impacts from above-average coaches. You might see a 7-9 or an 8-8 record, or perhaps worse, but there are games where the team puts it all together and blows out the opponent -- we NEVER see that. Teams that experience success in the playoffs have MANY BLOWOUT WINS during the regular season -- not this "let's hang on until the 4th quarter and try to steal one" mentality.

I'll give Herm some credit for good drafts. But what I observe on Sundays is a team that is less than the sum of it's parts. Do the Chiefs really have less talent on offense now than the Roaf-less 2001 squad that managed to have a pretty good offense despite terrible LT play and zero NFL-caliber WRs?

KCJohnny
11-12-2007, 01:15 PM
As a charter, full-fledged, card-carrying, dues-paid-up Chiefs homer, I appreciate your point of view, Mr. Zouk. But, honestly, Herm doesn't deserve a pass on this deal.

The Chiefs are up to their mons in stale monkey sh*t. If it weren't for JA, the defense would be anything to write home about. The offense is in shambles (we have no running game, no passing game, and very questionable coaching). Then there are our special teams, which are just plain stupid (HOF punter notwithstanding).

On top of all that, Herm has lied to us consistently since he came on the scene. But overlooking that sad fact, I sincerely want to believe that his 1940s approach to game management can work. But, at this point, I think it's fair to say that either his plan isn't working or there really is no plan.

Anyhow, when a guy uses terms like "flustrated", "theirselves", and "swole", and admits that he "don't even have a internet", I have to question his basic intelligence.

FAX

I agree with Zouk and I think your criticisms are a bit too personal. Herm's players play hard for him. He did develop Pennington (who used to be pretty good). Zouk's point about Herm and Croyle is a good one.

I do think there are no actual offense experts on the coaching side of this team. Herm's a defense guy; Solari is a lineman; the next guy who might know anything about O is Charlie Joiner, the WRs coach. I would daresay he knows more than Herm and Solari about running the Coryell offense. He played in it.

bobbything
11-12-2007, 01:18 PM
I'll say this much for our offense, and offensive coaching: it makes the 1995 Bono-led squad look like an Area League team.

I never thought I'd actually see a Chiefs offense that made me long for the 1995 version.

KCJohnny
11-12-2007, 01:18 PM
Generally speaking, you see immediate impacts from above-average coaches. You might see a 7-9 or an 8-8 record, or perhaps worse, but there are games where the team puts it all together and blows out the opponent -- we NEVER see that. Teams that experience success in the playoffs have MANY BLOWOUT WINS during the regular season -- not this "let's hang on until the 4th quarter and try to steal one" mentality.



Exactly. No killer instinct. Look at NE. No mercy. Blow outs are tasty and great morale builders.

Zouk
11-12-2007, 01:21 PM
Not sure about the lying - what did you have in mind there, Mr. Fax?

You have to ask yourself this - what is a realistic expectation for the Chiefs based on their talent this year? Is it 12-4 and Super Bowl contention? Clearly not. 10-6? That would be a great coaching job, wouldn't it? With Huard or a 2nd year 3rd round pick at QB? With only a rookie and a 34 year old strained hammy dude at WR? With this O-line?

So about 6-10 to 9-7 seems like the right range for this talent. Most commentators predicted us to be between 4 and 7 wins. We'll be in that line.

As far as game planning, with this defense, the right tackle situation, and this QB and WRs - the best way for this team to win is not to throw a lot. Hopefully the 3rd quarter yesterday demonstrated that sufficiently. If Croyle pans out, we fix the RT, and get more weapons, then we'll throw more.

The talent Herm inherited stunk. All the 2005 starters except LJ, Gonzalez, Waters, Allen, and DJ are either gone or will be soon. Judge him based on a full 4 year term, not in the middle of a year 2 rebuilding (not youth, but rebuilding) project.

As far as the way he talks, the players like him, have always liked him, and have always played hard for him. Judging someone's intelligence based on the words he uses is not smart in my opinion.

FAX
11-12-2007, 01:24 PM
I agree with Zouk and I think your criticisms are a bit too personal. Herm's players play hard for him. He did develop Pennington (who used to be pretty good). Zouk's point about Herm and Croyle is a good one.

I do think there are no actual offense experts on the coaching side of this team. Herm's a defense guy; Solari is a lineman; the next guy who might know anything about O is Charlie Joiner, the WRs coach. I would daresay he knows more than Herm and Solari about running the Coryell offense. He played in it.

You're right. My criticisms may well be too personal, Mr. KCJohnny. The fact is that I need to work on that. It's funny because I'm a very positive person by nature and rarely attack people in that manner. It's probably because Herm is a proven liar and an illiterate, megalomaniacal, smelly fool.

As for having no "actual offense experts" on the coaching staff, I think that's pretty darn ironicalish since a big part of NFL football is offense (see every other team in the history of the universe).

FAX

QuikSsurfer
11-12-2007, 01:25 PM
The rotten sore on the face of mother earth gets bigger, the triggers cold empty ya purse

Elwaysux
11-12-2007, 01:25 PM
I heard a great call on a local call in show asking who this coaching staff has "coached up" this year. The players that are performing somewhat, (Gonzo, Bo, Jared A) are all doing what they have done or were expected to do. Who have the coaches taken to the next level? Or as Herm was spouting, "you have to have B players play like A players and C players play like B blah, blah, blah". Send Solari back to line coach and bring in a new OC.

KCJohnny
11-12-2007, 01:26 PM
Not sure about the lying - what did you have in mind there, Mr. Fax?

You have to ask yourself this - what is a realistic expectation for the Chiefs based on their talent this year? Is it 12-4 and Super Bowl contention? Clearly not. 10-6? That would be a great coaching job, wouldn't it? With Huard or a 2nd year 3rd round pick at QB? With only a rookie and a 34 year old strained hammy dude at WR? With this O-line?

So about 6-10 to 9-7 seems like the right range for this talent. Most commentators predicted us to be between 4 and 7 wins. We'll be in that line.

As far as game planning, with this defense, the right tackle situation, and this QB and WRs - the best way for this team to win is not to throw a lot. Hopefully the 3rd quarter yesterday demonstrated that sufficiently. If Croyle pans out, we fix the RT, and get more weapons, then we'll throw more.

The talent Herm inherited stunk. All the 2005 starters except LJ, Gonzalez, Waters, Allen, and DJ are either gone or will be soon. Judge him based on a full 4 year term, not in the middle of a year 2 rebuilding (not youth, but rebuilding) project.

As far as the way he talks, the players like him, have always liked him, and have always played hard for him. Judging someone's intelligence based on the words he uses is not smart in my opinion.

Great post, Zouk. Rep.

If anyone is counting, we threw the football 45 x yesterday. Unless you are Brett Favre, that's usually a sign you are losing.

Reerun_KC
11-12-2007, 01:27 PM
Not sure about the lying - what did you have in mind there, Mr. Fax?

You have to ask yourself this - what is a realistic expectation for the Chiefs based on their talent this year? Is it 12-4 and Super Bowl contention? Clearly not. 10-6? That would be a great coaching job, wouldn't it? With Huard or a 2nd year 3rd round pick at QB? With only a rookie and a 34 year old strained hammy dude at WR? With this O-line?

So about 6-10 to 9-7 seems like the right range for this talent. Most commentators predicted us to be between 4 and 7 wins. We'll be in that line.

As far as game planning, with this defense, the right tackle situation, and this QB and WRs - the best way for this team to win is not to throw a lot. Hopefully the 3rd quarter yesterday demonstrated that sufficiently. If Croyle pans out, we fix the RT, and get more weapons, then we'll throw more.

The talent Herm inherited stunk. All the 2005 starters except LJ, Gonzalez, Waters, Allen, and DJ are either gone or will be soon. Judge him based on a full 4 year term, not in the middle of a year 2 rebuilding (not youth, but rebuilding) project.

As far as the way he talks, the players like him, have always liked him, and have always played hard for him. Judging someone's intelligence based on the words he uses is not smart in my opinion.


I admire your loyalty to Herm, Zouk... And I am glad you think he can build a team that is playoff worthy...

Some of us would just rather go in another direction, nothing personal to you, but Herm just isnt what we want in a coach.

Regardless of talent, injures, LT, more weapons, etc... Herm just doesnt have want it takes to build a championship team. Never has, and I would bet he never will....

Reerun_KC
11-12-2007, 01:28 PM
Great post, Zouk. Rep.

If anyone is counting, we threw the football 45 x yesterday. Unless you are Brett Favre, that's usually a sign you are losing.


AirHerm is alive and well?

Zouk
11-12-2007, 01:28 PM
....He certainly was not in high demand then or now.

And I don't buy the rebuilding argument; teams turn over their rosters and remain competitive -- look at Philly, Pittsburgh, and of course New England....



He was not on the open market - he was under contract.

The reason the Chiefs are lousy now is the drafts that preceeded Herm. Those teams you mention have consistent success because they draft well and don't spend big on mediocre free agents. We did both during Vermeil's tenure, and Herm is inheriting the consequences. The roster management has improved 100% since his arrival.

bobbything
11-12-2007, 01:30 PM
The talent Herm inherited stunk. All the 2005 starters except LJ, Gonzalez, Waters, Allen, and DJ are either gone or will be soon. Judge him based on a full 4 year term, not in the middle of a year 2 rebuilding (not youth, but rebuilding) project.
Would it have been more prudent to gut both sides of this team, and go younger? Because, he did that (to a certain extent) with the defense. I still contend that we shouldn't have signed Law when we did, and should have tried to pawn off Surtain to someone else. Regardless, he's made an effort to get young guys in there.

Really, would should have tried to get what we could have for any/all of these players: Green, L. Johnson, Weigmann, Kennison, Parker, Gonzalez, Wilson.

They never fit into what Herm wants/wanted to do here. Instead, I feel like we're set back on offense and going to be weighted to one side more than another, again, for some time.

KCJohnny
11-12-2007, 01:30 PM
You're right. My criticisms may well be too personal, Mr. KCJohnny. The fact is that I need to work on that. It's funny because I'm a very positive person by nature and rarely attack people in that manner. It's probably because Herm is a proven liar and an illiterate, megalomaniacal, smelly fool.

As for having no "actual offense experts" on the coaching staff, I think that's pretty darn ironicalish since a big part of NFL football is offense (see every other team in the history of the universe).

FAX
I take then you agree that there are no actualy offense experts on this coaching staff? That troubled me from the beginning of Herm's tenure. I was drinking the kool aid in 2006 thinking the magic Saunders dust had rubbed off on Solari. I was wrong. We need a real OC who knows how to put teams away with the talent you do have and not the scheme you prefer.

Reerun_KC
11-12-2007, 01:31 PM
He was not on the open market - he was under contract.

The reason the Chiefs are lousy now is the drafts that preceeded Herm. Those teams you mention have consistent success because they draft well and don't spend big on mediocre free agents. We did both during Vermeil's tenure, and Herm is inheriting the consequences. The roster management has improved 100% since his arrival.


True the roster has changed, but the game management has declined 100% since his arrival as well...

Reerun_KC
11-12-2007, 01:31 PM
I take then you agree that there are no actualy offense experts on this coaching staff? That troubled me from the beginning of Herm's tenure. I was drinking the kool aid in 2006 thinking the magic Saunders dust had rubbed off on Solari. I was wrong. We need a real OC who knows how to put teams away with the talent you do have and not the scheme you prefer.



:bravo: Nice take!

Zouk
11-12-2007, 01:34 PM
Would it have been more prudent to gut both sides of this team, and go younger? Because, he did that (to a certain extent) with the defense. I still contend that we shouldn't have signed Law when we did, and should have tried to pawn off Surtain to someone else. Regardless, he's made an effort to get young guys in there.

Really, would should have tried to get what we could have for any/all of these players: Green, L. Johnson, Weigmann, Kennison, Parker, Gonzalez, Wilson.

They never fit into what Herm wants/wanted to do here. Instead, I feel like we're set back on offense and going to be weighted to one side more than another, again, for some time.

The first Herm offseason we did basically nothing, because we had to improve the cap situtation and we were tied into multiple long-term contracts. The second offseason, we made a lot of changes. The third offseason, the offense will be gutted. There were just too many holes to fix all at once.

I do think the LJ signing was a strategic error though.

KCJohnny
11-12-2007, 01:40 PM
The first Herm offseason we did basically nothing, because we had to improve the cap situtation and we were tied into multiple long-term contracts. The second offseason, we made a lot of changes. The third offseason, the offense will be gutted. There were just too many holes to fix all at once.

I do think the LJ signing was a strategic error though.

History will be very unkind to CP for this boondoggle. LJ is a great RB in the right system, but he's not worth anything close to the cap room his deal will suck up.

Look folks, the Bellicek model is the one that is working. No big-headed super stars, no egos, no off the field drama, 60 minutes of hard hitting violent football every week, and a strategy that adapts to each opponent each week, even each half.

Forget BucBall, Maulball, Martyball, Dickyball, whatever. Look at the Patriots and you will see a team of humble warriors who flex with each opponents' strengths and weaknesses and outcoaches them darned near every Sunday.

NE made it to the top with rent-a-RBs, so-so WRs, a kicker who was dead-money at crunch time and a great QB. That points to great coaching IMO.

Chief Faithful
11-12-2007, 01:40 PM
:rolleyes:

Now that Huard is left for dead, all the attention focuses on Herm.

I can tell the last seven games are going to see an epic battle between the Herm haters and defenders.

Sign me up as a Herm defender until he is replaced.

bobbything
11-12-2007, 01:44 PM
The first Herm offseason we did basically nothing, because we had to improve the cap situtation and we were tied into multiple long-term contracts. The second offseason, we made a lot of changes. The third offseason, the offense will be gutted. There were just too many holes to fix all at once.

I do think the LJ signing was a strategic error though.
I agree, however, IIRC, Gonzalez and Johnson could have been dealt and the Chiefs would have been compensated pretty well. Kennison got an extension a few years ago, but I'm not sure what it was against the cap. Parker and Wilson should have been gone the day Herm got here.

I realize that our cap situation wasn't ideal. However, I still think there were a few things we could have done with Gonzalez and Johnson to improve our draft status.

Chiefnj2
11-12-2007, 01:47 PM
Wasn't the first Herm offseason the acquisition of Reed, Edwards, Turley, Terry and Law?

Zouk
11-12-2007, 01:49 PM
I agree, however, IIRC, Gonzalez and Johnson could have been dealt and the Chiefs would have been compensated pretty well.

You want to trade Tony Gonzalez? Sacreligious!

LJ should have been traded though. Even if people would have cried about how little we would get for him.

Zouk
11-12-2007, 01:50 PM
Wasn't the first Herm offseason the acquisition of Reed, Edwards, Turley, Terry and Law?

All except Law for no money whatsoever. All those other guys were taken off the street.

FAX
11-12-2007, 02:07 PM
I take then you agree that there are no actualy offense experts on this coaching staff? That troubled me from the beginning of Herm's tenure. I was drinking the kool aid in 2006 thinking the magic Saunders dust had rubbed off on Solari. I was wrong. We need a real OC who knows how to put teams away with the talent you do have and not the scheme you prefer.

We're in total agreement on the "offensive expert" issue, Mr. KCJohnny. I had a sour feeling in my gut when Trent left because, honestly, it seemed as though he was the only guy in the franchise with a full command of the playbook.

Mega prop things, too, for the bolded comment. That, in a nutshell is the main problem I have with Herm and his approach to coaching. You know, over the years, the NFL has implemented significant rule changes that favor scoring and offensive production. It's fair to say that these changes mirror some of the problems we're experiencing by demonstrating that, as the league has changed, Herm's philosophy has been, to some extent, nullified. It's not that defense, field position, and a positive turnover ratio are bad things. It's simply that, in this day and age, you have to be productive on offense in order to compete in this league.

As for being wrong, you're not alone. I was wrong on Herm, Solari, Medlock, and the impact of rising oil prices on the development of zero point energy.

FAX

HemiEd
11-12-2007, 02:16 PM
http://www.pongalong.com/beerblog/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/hermEdwards.jpg

I got rid of that ****ing Circus offense!

HemiEd
11-12-2007, 02:21 PM
Anyhow, when a guy uses terms like "flustrated", "theirselves", and "swole", and admits that he "don't even have a internet", I have to question his basic intelligence.

FAX

I haven't seen all of those in print that I recall. ROFL ROFL

Count Zarth
11-12-2007, 02:29 PM
I got rid of that ****ing Circus offense!

Saunders' "circus offense" is averaging 19.7 points per game in Washington.

It has everything to do with talent and very little to do with your perception that Herm destroyed anything on purpose.

Mr. Laz
11-12-2007, 02:31 PM
wow ....... who'd a thought that KCJohnny had a twin homer brother.

zouk and johnny ........... 2 peas in a pod.

KCJohnny
11-12-2007, 02:37 PM
We're in total agreement on the "offensive expert" issue, Mr. KCJohnny. I had a sour feeling in my gut when Trent left because, honestly, it seemed as though he was the only guy in the franchise with a full command of the playbook.

Mega prop things, too, for the bolded comment. That, in a nutshell is the main problem I have with Herm and his approach to coaching. You know, over the years, the NFL has implemented significant rule changes that favor scoring and offensive production. It's fair to say that these changes mirror some of the problems we're experiencing by demonstrating that, as the league has changed, Herm's philosophy has been, to some extent, nullified. It's not that defense, field position, and a positive turnover ratio are bad things. It's simply that, in this day and age, you have to be productive on offense in order to compete in this league.

As for being wrong, you're not alone. I was wrong on Herm, Solari, Medlock, and the impact of rising oil prices on the development of zero point energy.

FAX

Methinks that Carl knows Herm needs O. Methinks CP puts the heat on Herm to hire a real OC and snap up some FAs. Carl "you don't need to lose in order to rebuild" Peterson is NOT willing to repeat the lopsided focus of 2001-2005.

This team will get younger, but I still believe there's some win-now focus for 2008.

HemiEd
11-12-2007, 02:43 PM
Saunders' "circus offense" is averaging 19.7 points per game in Washington.

It has everything to do with talent and very little to do with your perception that Herm destroyed anything on purpose.

If you don't think Joe Gibbs has Al Saunders nuts squeezed between his thumb and forefinger, similar to our own Herm Edwards and Solari, you don't know much about Joe Gibbs.

He was a conservative defensive minded coach when Herm was still shitting yellow.

KCJohnny
11-12-2007, 02:45 PM
If you don't think Joe Gibbs has Al Saunders nuts squeezed between his thumb and forefinger, similar to our own Herm Edwards and Solari, you don't know much about Joe Gibbs.

He was a conservative defensive minded coach when Herm was still shitting yellow.

The 1991 Redskins were a flying cicus on offense running the same scheme AS ran here.

KCJohnny
11-12-2007, 03:30 PM
This week's rankings:

Total offense #30

Passing offense #16

Rushing offense #31 (we are literally 24 inches a rush better than GB, and they just discovered a rushing attack, so we're headed for the basement.