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KCChiefsFan88
11-13-2007, 05:50 PM
More comedy with Herm, courtesy of his weekly press conference. I give which ever reporter asked Herm the following questions about the offense changing credit for asking these long overdue questions, but he/she should have gone further and said that one thing that HAS changed with the offense during the past 2 seasons is it has gone from ranked #1 in the NFL to ranked 30th in the NFL. That is a dramatic decline that is rarely seen in the league.

From Herm's press conference today:

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2007/11/13/herm_edwards_press_conference__1113/

Q: Do you maybe know that after looking at last week you can highlight Priest Holmes strengths?

EDWARDS: ďYou fail to realize this: this offense hasnít changed. It hasnít changed in two years. We donít call different plays. Thatís a figment of peopleís imagination. Priest Holmes was in this offense. The coaches that coach this offense coached Priest before I got here. So it wasnít like we had some new plays for Priest Holmes. They knew what he could do. So we ran those plays. Priest was involved in that and these are the plays he likes. We know what he likes. We donít have new plays for Priest Holmes. He knows this offense better than anybody. He was in it and was very successful.

Q: If your offense hasnít changed why has it struggled?

EDWARDS: ďIt hasnít changed. Same plays, same plays we had last year. Itís the same and a lot of the same players. Sometimes the perception is not the reality. Same playbook. Same terminology.Ē

Q: But perhaps you can go deeper in your playbook?

EDWARDS: ďWhat we have done is itís going to be simpler for the receivers because the young guys were going to have to play. Thatís why Dwayne Bowe is playing and why Jeff Webb is playing. It canít be so complicated that it takes the young guys two years to play the offense because they canít learn how to line up.Ē

OnTheWarpath58
11-13-2007, 05:56 PM
I'm not sure what's supposed to be funny about that. He's right.

The playbook hasn't changed. The personnel has.

Going from a Pro Bowl QB to Damon Huard is reason enough.

Replacing 3 OL, 2 of the Pro Bowlers, hasn't helped either.

The lack of depth on this roster has finally caught up with us.

Period.

banyon
11-13-2007, 05:59 PM
The plays aren't the same, or at least the proportions aren't. We used to run screens all of the time and reverses. Now hardly ever (at least until last game). We also run stright up the gut a ton more than trying to stretch the corner.

Douche Baggins
11-13-2007, 06:00 PM
The plays aren't the same, or at least the proportions aren't. We used to run screens all of the time and reverses. Now hardly ever (at least until last game). We also run stright up the gut a ton more than trying to stretch the corner.

Have you seen us try to execute a screen this year? WE SUCK AT IT.

Same with outside running.

Our offensive linemen SUCK.

chief52
11-13-2007, 06:03 PM
Have you seen us try to execute a screen this year? WE SUCK AT IT.

Same with outside running.

Our offensive linemen SUCK.

When you offensive linemen can not hold out the pass rush is when the screen is supposed to work. That is the perfect time.

Extra Point
11-13-2007, 06:03 PM
The playbook needs editing, as Edwards fails to understand that our personnel can't execute the 1- or 2-hole dive.

Douche Baggins
11-13-2007, 06:04 PM
The playbook needs editing, as Edwards fails to understand that our personnel can't execute the 1- or 2-hole dive.

There's literally nothing we do well.

Bob Dole
11-13-2007, 06:07 PM
That's just wrong. We've been running primarily straight ahead between the tackles when previously we took advantage of our linemen's skills and had them pull.

Aside from the loss of Roaf and Shields, we're asking our nimble linemen to brawl instead of playing to their strengths.

FAX
11-13-2007, 06:09 PM
The plays aren't the same, or at least the proportions aren't. We used to run screens all of the time and reverses. Now hardly ever (at least until last game). We also run stright up the gut a ton more than trying to stretch the corner.

Maybe that's why it looks so much different, Mr. banyon. The old (two years ago) offensive scheme could and would stretch the field sideline to sideline. We pulled a lot, ran the stretch and screens and put enormous pressure on the enemy DEs, OLBs, and CBs which, in turn, helped the passing game and wore defenses down by the 4th quarter because they had to run so much.

I suppose if you took the same playbook and spend most of your time on the pages that featured the middle rushes, it would appear like a very different offense - which it is.

FAX

Douche Baggins
11-13-2007, 06:10 PM
we're asking our nimble linemen to brawl instead of playing to their strengths.

We have like...two nimble linemen. Two.

FAX
11-13-2007, 06:10 PM
That's just wrong. We've been running primarily straight ahead between the tackles when previously we took advantage of our linemen's skills and had them pull.

Aside from the loss of Roaf and Shields, we're asking our nimble linemen to brawl instead of playing to their strengths.

Exactomundolio.

FAX

Douche Baggins
11-13-2007, 06:11 PM
WE DO NOT HAVE THE OFFENSIVE LINE TO EXECUTE ANY OFFENSIVE SCHEME WITH ANY CONSISTENCY.

OnTheWarpath58
11-13-2007, 06:13 PM
Have you seen us try to execute a screen this year? WE SUCK AT IT.

Same with outside running.

Our offensive linemen SUCK.

Exactly.

Running the stretch play would be death at this point.

Our tackles are not athletic enough to get outside.

Waters and Weigmann are the only OL we have that excel in space.

FAX
11-13-2007, 06:20 PM
Exactly.

Running the stretch play would be death at this point.

Our tackles are not athletic enough to get outside.

Waters and Weigmann are the only OL we have that excel in space.

So, why not pull them? Priest would be okay with that, I'm sure.

FAX

Douche Baggins
11-13-2007, 06:25 PM
So, why not pull them? Priest would be okay with that, I'm sure.

FAX

We pull all the time. We've done it in every game this year.

Bob Dole
11-13-2007, 06:32 PM
We have like...two nimble linemen. Two.

How many do you expect to pull?

OnTheWarpath58
11-13-2007, 06:35 PM
Post the .gif of the 14 yard loss from Sunday. Let's see what happened.

2bikemike
11-13-2007, 06:35 PM
Q: If your offense hasnít changed why has it struggled?

EDWARDS: ďIt hasnít changed. Same plays, same plays we had last year. Itís the same and a lot of the same players. Sometimes the perception is not the reality. Same playbook. Same terminology.Ē

Q: But perhaps you can go deeper in your playbook?

EDWARDS: ďWhat we have done is itís going to be simpler for the receivers because the young guys were going to have to play. Thatís why Dwayne Bowe is playing and why Jeff Webb is playing. It canít be so complicated that it takes the young guys two years to play the offense because they canít learn how to line up.Ē

Maybe I don't understand but if nothing has changed then how can you make it simpler for the "Young Guys"? Something has to have changed to make it simpler.

They are definately not running the same offense. They may be running some of the plays from the old playbook but nothing like they used to. And it is overwhelmingly clear that the problem lies at the feet of the O-line.

FAX
11-13-2007, 06:37 PM
We pull all the time. We've done it in every game this year.

Hmmm. I need to pull out my tapes. I haven't watched them all because I didn't think I could stand the pain.

But, based on NFL.com's play-by-play after the games, it's sure looked like we've run up the gut a lot.

FAX

FAX
11-13-2007, 06:39 PM
Maybe I don't understand but if nothing has changed then how can you make it simpler for the "Young Guys"? Something has to have changed to make it simpler.

They are definately not running the same offense. They may be running some of the plays from the old playbook but nothing like they used to. And it is overwhelmingly clear that the problem lies at the feet of the O-line.

I think we may be in the midst of an argument over semantics, Mr. 2bikemike.

And Herm always wins those because he has new words.

FAX

Bob Dole
11-13-2007, 06:41 PM
Post the .gif of the 14 yard loss from Sunday. Let's see what happened.

It was no gain until he tried to make something out of nothing, because it didn't matter.

Post the .gif of our second play on offense.

Chiefnj2
11-13-2007, 06:41 PM
Herm is a lying idiot. He and Carl can't leave KC soon enough.

Herm Edwards on June 3rd 2007:

Q: Does the offense have to evolve or change at all this year? Last year you kept saying itís not changing or it didnít change. Every quarterback has said it has changed.

EDWARDS: ďYouíre daggone right. Thatís exactly right. Iíll take the hit for last year too because I changed it a whole lot. Itís changed some and itís changed to accommodate our players. Thatís what you feel to realize. You can draw these things up on paper and say this really looks good. But you have to evaluate your football team as we did last year and say there are some things we need to differently to protect and enhance what our players can do. Itís a good thing and change makes you grow.Ē

Douche Baggins
11-13-2007, 06:45 PM
Hmmm. I need to pull out my tapes. I haven't watched them all because I didn't think I could stand the pain.

But, based on NFL.com's play-by-play after the games, it's sure looked like we've run up the gut a lot.

FAX

We've pulled from the very first game. Look at Brian Waters pull in Houston:

http://i15.tinypic.com/71zslrn.gif

NFL.com defined this as "27-L.Johnson right guard to HOU 24 for 8 yards (59-D.Ryans, 24-C.Brown)."

The problem is we only have one guard that can pull effectively. Welbourn was a slow piece of crap. I'm hopeful Niswanger isn't.

Where we really suck is on sweeps. We used to KILL people with sweeps, with Roaf or Tait leading the way.

Chiefnj2
11-13-2007, 07:13 PM
How could Herm not change the offense with the loss of 2 pro bowl linemen, Tony Richardson and Trent Green? Not to mention finally getting a decent WR.

The best thing for Croyle would be to go down with an injury on the first play and get traded in the offseason to a team that has a clue about offense.

The Bad Guy
11-13-2007, 07:21 PM
You know what's really funny? When KcChiefsfan88 tries to analyze an offense. Of course, this dipshit still thinks Roaf, Shields and the Casey Weigmann of 4 years ago are still on the roster to run the same offense.

Halfcan
11-13-2007, 07:23 PM
Herm is the worst coach we have ever had.

Messier
11-13-2007, 07:24 PM
So, when it was thought that Herm had changed the offense everyone was mad because how could you mess with something that was working. Now, when people think Herm hasn't changed the offense people are mad because how could you not with all these new players.

The line is a problem, and not much is going to make them (mainly the right side) any better. What do you you expect?

Douche Baggins
11-13-2007, 07:26 PM
Herm is the worst coach we have ever had.

This post must be a joke.

Douche Baggins
11-13-2007, 07:28 PM
Thing is, everyone who wanted the offense to "be more aggressive" and all that bullshit has egg on their face right now.

The Chiefs came out passing with an 8-6 lead after halftime.

PASS
PASS
PASS
PASS

IT DESTROYED THE GAME.

Maybe Herm should have been a little more conservative, eh?

unothadeal
11-13-2007, 07:37 PM
Thing is, everyone who wanted the offense to "be more aggressive" and all that bullshit has egg on their face right now.

The Chiefs came out passing with an 8-6 lead after halftime.

PASS
PASS
PASS
PASS

IT DESTROYED THE GAME.

Maybe Herm should have been a little more conservative, eh?
Wouldn't have destroyed the game if Brodie was in :harumph: :banghead: :cuss:

TRR
11-13-2007, 07:41 PM
KC's offensive woes have nothing to do with losing Saunders, changing the offense, or Herm Edwards. It has everything to do with losing Trent Green (arguably the best QB in KC history), Priest Holmes (arguably the best RB in KC history), Willie Roaf (arguably the best LT in KC history), Will Shields (arguably the best LG in KC history), Tony Richardson (arguably the best FB in KC history) and Dante Hall setting up fantastic field position (who is arguably the best return man in KC history.

It is going to take some time to get the offense back on track no matter who we have as head coach, or who we have as the OC. KC lost a lot of valuable offensive weapons to old age and retirement.

Halfcan
11-13-2007, 07:41 PM
This post must be a joke.

He single handedly cut the nuts off the #1 scoring offense in the NFL. He has no backbone, can't manage a game, and has no direction.

The Chiefs will be horrible to watch as long as he is at the helm.

We are on pace to score the lowest points in Chiefs history. I would say that qualifies him as the worst coach.

ChiefsLV
11-13-2007, 07:41 PM
Thing is, everyone who wanted the offense to "be more aggressive" and all that bullshit has egg on their face right now.

The Chiefs came out passing with an 8-6 lead after halftime.

PASS
PASS
PASS
PASS

IT DESTROYED THE GAME.

Maybe Herm should have been a little more conservative, eh?


How about not being predictable and playing smart football? That's all I ask.

Douche Baggins
11-13-2007, 07:43 PM
He single handedly cut the nuts off the #1 scoring offense in the NFL.

He forced Shields and Roaf to retire? He hit Green over the head with a frying pan? Whatever.

Saleenman607
11-13-2007, 07:43 PM
Thing is, everyone who wanted the offense to "be more aggressive" and all that bullshit has egg on their face right now.

The Chiefs came out passing with an 8-6 lead after halftime.

PASS
PASS
PASS
PASS

IT DESTROYED THE GAME.

Maybe Herm should have been a little more conservative, eh?

Maybe Herm should have been in Solari's face! All that tryin' to look like Dungy and acting all "stoic" on the sideline is not helping this team in my humble opinion. Get in the respective coaches face. If he does'nt want to do it on camera, then do it when it's appropriate.
Lets get FIRED up

Messier
11-13-2007, 07:45 PM
I know this should be on the Croyle prediction thread, but I think next week he will have one of those really really bad, I'm making my first start, the Colts are mad as hell, pee down the leg, 3 int type games.

And I think that it should make no difference to him or the fans. It's just how it goes, and he'll be good, I think.

Halfcan
11-13-2007, 07:45 PM
KC's offensive woes have nothing to do with losing Saunders, changing the offense, or Herm Edwards. It has everything to do with losing Trent Green (arguably the best QB in KC history), Priest Holmes (arguably the best RB in KC history), Willie Roaf (arguably the best LT in KC history), Will Shields (arguably the best LG in KC history), Tony Richardson (arguably the best FB in KC history) and Dante Hall setting up fantastic field position (who is arguably the best return man in KC history.

It is going to take some time to get the offense back on track no matter who we have as head coach, or who we have as the OC. KC lost a lot of valuable offensive weapons to old age and retirement.

Other teams can lose probowl players and keep going-we are still talking about Roaf?? Give me a break. TG, Dante and Richardson were shown the door by Herm.

What the Fug do we need a FB for-lets use a linebacker instead-Herm

Bob Dole
11-13-2007, 07:47 PM
I know this should be on the Croyle prediction thread, but I think next week he will have one of those really really bad, I'm making my first start, the Colts are mad as hell, pee down the leg, 3 int type games.

And I think that it should make no difference to him or the fans. It's just how it goes, and he'll be good, I think.

Only 3?

Optimist.

Halfcan
11-13-2007, 07:49 PM
He forced Shields and Roaf to retire? He hit Green over the head with a frying pan? Whatever.

Did they think those two guys would play forever-besides that was 2 years ago.

Herm does not value scoring and thought he could plug in a bunch of scrubs, dumb down the play book and squeek by 10 to 7 every game.

The NFL has passed him by-Herm is Obsolete. He would have been great in the 1940's.

Douche Baggins
11-13-2007, 07:51 PM
All that tryin' to look like Dungy and acting all "stoic" on the sideline is not helping this team in my humble opinion.

LOL. It's not an act. That's who Herm is.

unothadeal
11-13-2007, 07:51 PM
What the Fug do we need a FB for-lets use a linebacker instead-Herm
T-Rich is washed up. :rolleyes: He only led for a 1200 yard back and a potential 1200 yard back since we got rid of him.

Douche Baggins
11-13-2007, 07:52 PM
T-Rich is washed up. :rolleyes: He only led for a 1200 yard back and a potential 1200 yard back since we got rid of him.

It was time to move on.

Bob Dole
11-13-2007, 07:53 PM
It was time to move on.

You're a loon.

Messier
11-13-2007, 07:53 PM
Other teams can lose probowl players and keep going-we are still talking about Roaf?? Give me a break. TG, Dante and Richardson were shown the door by Herm.

What the Fug do we need a FB for-lets use a linebacker instead-Herm


What player from the Vermeil era is still going strong? Gonzo is. Yes, we could Hall, but everyone here and elsewhere thought his best days were behind him.

Herm came to a team with a bad D and an O that was about to fall off the cliff. He's fixing the D. The O will take time.

unothadeal
11-13-2007, 07:53 PM
It was time to move on.
Because we had a steller group of guys just waiting to get their shot at stardom? Ronnie Cruz? Kris Wilson? Boomer Grig... ah **** it, he's no fullback.

Halfcan
11-13-2007, 07:55 PM
It was time to move on.

Why because he was a great guy, awesome leader and did tons of comunity service-not to mention helping PH and LJ put up monster numbers.

Douche Baggins
11-13-2007, 07:57 PM
T-Rich is ancient. He'll probably retire after this season. Sooner or later you have to find the FB of the future. For as much as people bitch about Herm playing old guys, you'd think they'd leave this one alone.

He was also injured last year, which is the exact reason he was let go.

unothadeal
11-13-2007, 07:58 PM
T-Rich is ancient. He'll probably retire after this season. Sooner or later you have to find the FB of the future. For as much as people bitch about Herm playing old guys, you'd think they'd leave this one alone.
I'd only bitch if the old guy sucked and was preventing a younger, more talented guy from starting. Then I'd bitch. Ancient, huh?

Skip Towne
11-13-2007, 08:00 PM
Herm is the worst coach ever
FYP

Saleenman607
11-13-2007, 08:00 PM
LOL. It's not an act. That's who Herm is.


Is it? Where is that personification during the pressers? Just what the hell is he rambling on about? I'd like to see some of his presser demeanor during the game. Show some emotion

Douche Baggins
11-13-2007, 08:01 PM
I'd only bitch if the old guy sucked and was preventing a younger, more talented guy from starting. Then I'd bitch. Ancient, huh?

He is. And he missed two more games this year. Injury prone.

I don't fault the Chiefs for not paying 2.5 million to an injury prone fullback, sorry. It's not like the loss of T-Rich prevented us from winning a playoff game or something.

unothadeal
11-13-2007, 08:04 PM
It's not like the loss of T-Rich prevented us from winning a playoff game or something.
He might have helped our running game just a wee bit against Indy. We might have gotten a first down.

Skip Towne
11-13-2007, 08:12 PM
You're a loon.
Not so fast! He's been "breaking down film" again. He came back from training camp "knowing it all". He now is approximately as accurate as Nick Athan.

Chiefnj2
11-13-2007, 08:20 PM
What player from the Vermeil era is still going strong?
Gonzo, Waters, Colquitt, Allen, DJ, Surtain, LJ and possibly Priest.

Halfcan
11-13-2007, 08:21 PM
Not so fast! He's been "breaking down film" again. He came back from training camp "knowing it all". He now is approximately as accurate as Nick "The Erroneous One" Athan.

Nick said we have a great chance to beat Indy because all the pressure to win is on them. ROFL

How does that dumbfug get airtime??

go bowe
11-13-2007, 08:31 PM
We have like...two nimble linemen. Two.who's the other one?

Douche Baggins
11-13-2007, 08:32 PM
who's the other one?

Wiegmann and Waters.

stevieray
11-13-2007, 08:39 PM
We are on pace to score the lowest points in Chiefs history. I would say that qualifies him as the worst coach.

no, I think it speaks more to chickens coming home to roost, forcing the need to build the team from the ground up with KC Chiefs, not castoffs.


The first step is always the hardest.

TRR
11-13-2007, 08:41 PM
Other teams can lose probowl players and keep going-we are still talking about Roaf?? Give me a break. TG, Dante and Richardson were shown the door by Herm.

What the Fug do we need a FB for-lets use a linebacker instead-Herm

You have to cut ties eventually. Herm could have kept all 3, but they are all getting older, and everyone wanted a youth movement. Like I said, KC has lost some players to old age, like Dante Hall, TG, and TRich. They could all have still helped KC this season, but for how much longer? It would have happened eventually.

And when you lose a LT like Willie Roaf, you will feel it for years until you get another player to fill the hole. McIntosh is decent, but hasn't been 100% all season.

As far as teams losing Pro Bowlers, and keep on going?...Blame Vermeil for not grooming any young players to fill in for these guys when they left. Vermeil was all about the "WIN NOW" atmosphere. He could have cared less about grooming young players...And it is showing.

Messier
11-13-2007, 08:43 PM
Gonzo, Waters, Colquitt, Allen, DJ, Surtain, LJ and possibly Priest.


Uh...did you see the context of the point? First I was refering only to offensive players, and then to players not on the team.

Kind of cuts your list down a bit.

Douche Baggins
11-13-2007, 08:45 PM
Vermeil was all about the "WIN NOW" atmosphere. He could have cared less about grooming young players...And it is showing.

When Vermeil left Philly, the Eagles didn't have a winning season for five seasons.

They started winning again when they played a young quarterback. :hmmm:

Messier
11-13-2007, 08:50 PM
Also, I mentioned Gonzo, and I don't know if I consider LJ a Vermeil offensive player. True he started and played well under Vermeil, but he wasn't part of the "glory days" of the Vermeil offense.

Douche Baggins
11-13-2007, 08:55 PM
Vermeil knew what was happening. He got out when the gettin' was good. And now Herm is cleaning up his mess.

TEX
11-13-2007, 09:12 PM
Vermeil knew what was happening. He got out when the gettin' was good. And now Herm is cleaning up his mess.

Herm is the biggest mess. Are you forgetting that Herm stated that he DID CHANGE the offence and to PUT IT ALL ON HIM???

The Bad Guy
11-13-2007, 09:13 PM
He single handedly cut the nuts off the #1 scoring offense in the NFL. He has no backbone, can't manage a game, and has no direction.

The Chiefs will be horrible to watch as long as he is at the helm.

We are on pace to score the lowest points in Chiefs history. I would say that qualifies him as the worst coach.

You really have no idea what the **** is going on in the NFL.

You're right, it is Herm's fault. It's his fault that he couldn't find the fountain of youth to keep Roaf, Trent Green, and Shields all in their early 30s.

Seriously, I think you are missing chromosomes. You might want to get that checked out.

The Bad Guy
11-13-2007, 09:14 PM
Herm is the biggest mess. Are you forgetting that Herm stated that he DID CHANGE the offence and to PUT IT ALL ON HIM???

Some of you are pretty ****ing ridiculous.

Herm is paying for Vermeil's shitty drafts from 2001-2004.

You can't have 4 drafts that bad and not think the franchise is going to have some major rebuilding to do. If Vermeil reloaded the roster with some youth in the draft, this team wouldn't be in nearly the mess it is now.

Brock
11-13-2007, 09:15 PM
Some of you are pretty ****ing ridiculous.

Herm is paying for Vermeil's shitty drafts from 2001-2004.

You can't have 4 drafts that bad and not think the franchise is going to have some major rebuilding to do. If Vermeil reloaded the roster with some youth in the draft, this team wouldn't be in nearly the mess it is now.

These are the facts right here.

HemiEd
11-13-2007, 09:51 PM
Maybe that's why it looks so much different, Mr. banyon. The old (two years ago) offensive scheme could and would stretch the field sideline to sideline. We pulled a lot, ran the stretch and screens and put enormous pressure on the enemy DEs, OLBs, and CBs which, in turn, helped the passing game and wore defenses down by the 4th quarter because they had to run so much.

FAX

Good thing Herm doesn't have an internet, he would get all Flustrated trying to understand what you said.

RustShack
11-13-2007, 09:57 PM
Herm is doing a great job cleaning up Vermiels mess, we will go further with Herm as our coach than we did with Dick. We wont have his great offense, but we sure as hell wont have his horrible defense either. In a year or two we have a top 15 offense, and a top 5 defense.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-13-2007, 11:07 PM
Did I see GOATSE say we needed a FBOTF....ROFL ROFL

Douche Baggins
11-13-2007, 11:26 PM
Did I see GOATSE say we needed a FBOTF....ROFL ROFL

WTF? We need a fullback. Period.

TEX
11-14-2007, 07:48 AM
Some of you are pretty ****ing ridiculous.

Herm is paying for Vermeil's shitty drafts from 2001-2004.

You can't have 4 drafts that bad and not think the franchise is going to have some major rebuilding to do. If Vermeil reloaded the roster with some youth in the draft, this team wouldn't be in nearly the mess it is now.


Only partly true. Carl along with DV made the decision on which course to take when DV came on board. What's also pretty ****ing rediculous is the way that some of you don't factor in the picks that it took to get Trent and DV. And totally ignore the fact that in some instances, Carl and DV did not agree on drafting certain players during that time.

Pushead2
11-14-2007, 07:56 AM
Herm is doing a great job cleaning up Vermiels mess, we will go further with Herm as our coach than we did with Dick. We wont have his great offense, but we sure as hell wont have his horrible defense either. In a year or two we have a top 15 offense, and a top 5 defense.

:hmmm: There's a part of me that agrees with this.

Chiefnj2
11-14-2007, 07:59 AM
Some of you are pretty ****ing ridiculous.

Herm is paying for Vermeil's shitty drafts from 2001-2004.

You can't have 4 drafts that bad and not think the franchise is going to have some major rebuilding to do. If Vermeil reloaded the roster with some youth in the draft, this team wouldn't be in nearly the mess it is now.

And Vermeil payed for Gunther's horrible drafts and Marty's final year of poor drafting.

TRR
11-14-2007, 08:20 AM
And Vermeil payed for Gunther's horrible drafts and Marty's final year of poor drafting.

Vermeil didn't have to pay for previous coaches mistakes. He was allowed to pretty much get any vet FA that he wanted within reason to fill holes left by previous coaches. Edwards is going to build this team through the draft, and he has done one hell of a job so far IMO.


Pollard, Page, Hali, Bowe, Webb, Turk, Tank...They all look like they could be good players in the NFL, with a couple of them having the ability to become great.

Chiefnj2
11-14-2007, 08:29 AM
Vermeil didn't have to pay for previous coaches mistakes. He was allowed to pretty much get any vet FA that he wanted within reason to fill holes left by previous coaches. Edwards is going to build this team through the draft, and he has done one hell of a job so far IMO.


Pollard, Page, Hali, Bowe, Webb, Turk, Tank...They all look like they could be good players in the NFL, with a couple of them having the ability to become great.

You always have to pay for mistakes and missed draft picks. They don't replace themselves.

Top 3 picks from 98 were Riley, Sheehee and Favors.
Top 3 picks from 99 were Tait, Cloud and Stills.
Top 3 picks from 00 were Morris, Bartee and Wesley.

Had the previous coaches hit on those picks DV could have used his vet FA choices differently and draft picks differently.

The Bad Guy
11-14-2007, 08:40 AM
Only partly true. Carl along with DV made the decision on which course to take when DV came on board. What's also pretty ****ing rediculous is the way that some of you don't factor in the picks that it took to get Trent and DV. And totally ignore the fact that in some instances, Carl and DV did not agree on drafting certain players during that time.

I'm not ignoring anything.

You are ignoring the fact that Herm had a mess to clean up. Am I removing Carl Peterson from guilt? No. But it's pretty hard to build a team when you have horrible drafts for 4 straight years, and have an ass old team that had it's best players retire.

kregger
11-14-2007, 09:05 AM
Herm is paying for Vermeil's shitty drafts from 2001-2004.



Uhh, who is the GM? Carl is guilty of letting DV talk him into crappy players who played under his friends and amazingly had glowing recommendations. This is one of Carl's biggest faults in hiring his "buddies". He doesn't know when to say no. It took him finally getting the stones to draft a guy like LJ and look how DV repaid him, whining on and on about how that's not my guy...
DV, you're a coach, please coach the players that the GM gives you and leave talent evaluation to someone who studies players.
This is one reason I'm willing to give Herm some rope. His history as a player and talent evaluator should help in the draft room. Now, please go get some offensive line help before trying to make the defense any better.