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Direckshun
11-14-2007, 02:17 AM
Late night bullshit thread. Use it as you wish.

Players to drop: Drummond. Wesley (trade value). Dunn. Wilson (trade value). Wiegmann. Welbourn. Terry. Turley. Parker (trade value -- but I think he's UFA). Reed. Bell (trade value).
1st day of the draft: Use one of our first-day picks to acquire whichever QB the Browns ain't using in 2008. The other two picks? OT and WR. Or FB, but only if A&M's Lane is available.
Mid-to-late rounds: CB. Speed demon KR/PR. Interior OL. FB.
FA acquisitions/trades: Potential starting QB if available, notably from the Browns. Interior OL (Faneca, people!). Backup FS/SS. WR. Blocking TE. Backup RB.
Movements on the roster: McIntosh to RT. Stud rookie at LT. Croyle to compete with the incoming Brown for QB. Herb Taylor and Niswanger compete with rooks and acquisitions for C and RG. Reacquire Phinisee. Upgrade K. Smith to #2 RB.
Thoughts.

luv
11-14-2007, 02:21 AM
You don't think Croyle will/should be our starter next year.

luv
11-14-2007, 02:23 AM
OH! OH! OH!

DEFINITELY reacquire Phinisee.

Direckshun
11-14-2007, 02:25 AM
You don't think Croyle will/should be our starter next year.
I don't think he will, and I severely doubt he should.

But I'm willing to give him yet another chance. Put him to the test against Brady Quinn or Derek Anderson, and let's see where we end up.

Guru
11-14-2007, 02:26 AM
OH! OH! OH!

DEFINITELY reacquire Phinisee.
Geez, calm down there.

Guru
11-14-2007, 02:27 AM
I don't think he will, and I severely doubt he should.

But I'm willing to give him yet another chance. Put him to the test against Brady Quinn or Derek Anderson, and let's see where we end up.
Carl WILL NOT pony up the cash to get Quinn. It would have to be Anderson and I don't see that happening either.

We will end up with Pennington.

Direckshun
11-14-2007, 02:35 AM
Carl WILL NOT pony up the cash to get Quinn. It would have to be Anderson and I don't see that happening either.

We will end up with Pennington.
Well if we trade for Quinn, we take his current salary.

Seeing how he was drafted exactly one slot higher than Bowe, he shouldn't be that expensive.

Douche Baggins
11-14-2007, 02:35 AM
Bell has no trade value unless you can clone Carl Peterson.

Direckshun
11-14-2007, 02:38 AM
Ryan Sims has no trade value unless you can clone Carl Peterson.
FYP to make it properly ironic.

luv
11-14-2007, 02:39 AM
What about Huard?

Guru
11-14-2007, 02:40 AM
What about Huard?
What about him?

FAX
11-14-2007, 02:40 AM
I'll post on your thread, Mr. Direckshun, if you'll post in my Gas Freak thread.

We're not going to require another QB. Brodie is going to be just fine (assuming the three stooges don't screw him up). He's a better player than you're giving him credit for. Please be patient with him and use that first day pick for OL - either in the draft or via trade.

FAX

FAX
11-14-2007, 02:46 AM
What about him?

I think that, on the first day of the draft, we bind him hand and foot with urine-soaked bungee cords, attach him to the landing gear of a vintage WWII biplane, fly him over Arrowhead a few times, and then back to Washington where he can live out the rest of his life in relative peace as a local weather man.

FAX

Direckshun
11-14-2007, 02:46 AM
What about Huard?
As of my scenario, if we acquired either Anderson or Quinn, with Brodie at the #2 perhaps, our #1 and #2 would not be terribly experienced QBs. Having Huard around as a #3 wouldn't be that bad of a scenario.

But just in case Peterson doesn't want to pony up $1 million+ a year for a 3rd string QB, Huard's gone and Thigpen's hanging out.

Direckshun
11-14-2007, 02:48 AM
I'll post on your thread, Mr. Direckshun, if you'll post in my Gas Freak thread.

We're not going to require another QB. Brodie is going to be just fine (assuming the three stooges don't screw him up). He's a better player than you're giving him credit for. Please be patient with him and use that first day pick for OL - either in the draft or via trade.
I intend to be patient with him -- for 8 weeks.

If he shows enough, I'm willing to give him the job in 2008.

But if he continues to play as poorly as he did in the preseason, where he was horrific in every imaginable manner, or simply incompetent like he was against the Broncos, that's where I draw the line.

luv
11-14-2007, 02:53 AM
I intend to be patient with him -- for 8 weeks.

If he shows enough, I'm willing to give him the job in 2008.

But if he continues to play as poorly as he did in the preseason, where he was horrific in every imaginable manner, or simply incompetent like he was against the Broncos, that's where I draw the line.
I already think he's played better, but I don't know all of the stats. I just wish he would have had more than 6-8 games to prove himself on the field. Not saying we would have won or lost more than we have.

Direckshun
11-14-2007, 02:55 AM
He tightened the noose around his own neck, if you ask me. He played absolutely horrendous in the preseason.

Herm didn't put himself in this hole to begin with, he did. I think giving him 8 weeks to disprove how awful he looked is appropriate. That's how jobs in the real world look, that's how jobs in the NFL work as well.

Guru
11-14-2007, 02:59 AM
I think that, on the first day of the draft, we bind him hand and foot with urine-soaked bungee cords, attach him to the landing gear of a vintage WWII biplane, fly him over Arrowhead a few times, and then back to Washington where he can live out the rest of his life in relative peace as a local weather man.

FAX
Now THAT woke me up. ROFL

OnTheWarpath58
11-14-2007, 06:12 AM
Derek Anderson is going to get a high RFA tender offer from the Browns, which would mean another team would likely have to give up a R1 AND a R3 pick to get him.

We're NOT trading for Derek Anderson.

penguinz
11-14-2007, 06:22 AM
You lost all credibility by saying Wilson has trade value.

BigRedChief
11-14-2007, 06:36 AM
You lost all credibility by saying Wilson has trade value.
And Parker and Bell

philfree
11-14-2007, 06:53 AM
I don't know about dropping all those players. I'm more concerned about who we bring in. We need to fix our O and that begins with the O line. We need to pick up some FA linemen who can make an impact immediately. Max Starks from Pitts would be a good pick up for the RT position and Ryan Lilja would be a good LG with us moving Waters to RG. Weigman if surrounded by the proper talent will be O.K. at C and that leaves us the LT spot to fill. McIntosh isn't getting it done but relying on a rookie to protect Broadies blind side isn't smart thinking. Travelle Wharthon fron Carolina is a UFA and plays LT. Is he an upgrade over McIntosh? We may have to live with McIntosh but with the other upgradeds our O Line should be tons better. Who we let go depends on what happens the rest of the season and TC battles. If we do these things and only these things our O should be much improved. Adding a good FB would help too. Bringing T-Rich back would be nice if he's available and wants to finish his career as a Chief.

Wouldn't hurt to get younger at CB and add another DT.

PhilFree:arrow:

TEX
11-14-2007, 07:09 AM
I think it $UCKS when the season is just half over and we're already looking towards next hear. N-I-C-E... :banghead:

Hoover
11-14-2007, 07:16 AM
My plan would be as follows.

1. Sign a FA Vet QB to give Croyle some competition in camp.

2. Sign a good FA Oline men. I prefer a Center if there is one out there.

3. Sign a cheap FA WR who can play opisite of Bowe. We still need depth and this shouldn't cost much.

4. resign Parker. He doesn't have to be all world we just need a guy who can stretch the field.

Draft Oline early and often. These are guys who can come in and start in the NFL.

Draft a CB the first day, hopefully they can also return kicks.

Chiefnj2
11-14-2007, 07:27 AM
Why are people so against developing a QB?

Derek Anderson couldn't beat out Charlie Frye. The Browns thought so little of Anderson they drafted a free falling Brady Quinn and gave up this years first round pick to do so.

Tony Romo who everyone is fawning over has been in the league for 5 years. He couldn't beat out Quincy Carter, Henson, an old Testaverde or old and battered Bledsoe.

Have some patience with Croyle and take into account the antiquated offensive philosophy of the head coach, the poor playcalling by the OC, the horrible OL, injured LB and Kennison, no FB, etc., etc.

Mile High Mania
11-14-2007, 07:41 AM
I think the current course of action is just fine and year 20 should be "the" year that it all comes together.

Mecca
11-14-2007, 07:46 AM
I could think of a bunch of other guys to add to that list...and I don't see anyone with trade value, at least not that the Chiefs will part with.

Pushead2
11-14-2007, 07:47 AM
I think the current course of action is just fine and year 20 should be "the" year that it all comes together.

yesssssss

RustShack
11-14-2007, 08:16 AM
If you think we are trading with the Browns for a QB, or with any team for a QB you don't know the Chiefs. We drafted Croyle for a reason. Bell wont get traded, we already tried trading Wesley, and we arn't getting Phienese back.

RustShack
11-14-2007, 08:18 AM
First three draft picks should go to two Olineman and 1 CB. Unless of course we have a shot at a once in a lifetime player, then draft them.

Direckshun
11-14-2007, 09:02 AM
I love people telling me Bell, Wilson, et al don't have trade value coming off an offseason when we traded away Ryan Sims and Lawrence Tynes.

RustShack
11-14-2007, 09:05 AM
Do you know how much Bells contract is? Teams trade for contracts like that when the player is good. Before he was a Chief that trade could have happend, now he hasn't done anything to earn that money.

the Talking Can
11-14-2007, 09:09 AM
He tightened the noose around his own neck, if you ask me. He played absolutely horrendous in the preseason.

Herm didn't put himself in this hole to begin with, he did. I think giving him 8 weeks to disprove how awful he looked is appropriate. That's how jobs in the real world look, that's how jobs in the NFL work as well.

yes, the "8 Week QBTF Development Plan".....a Chiefs special....it accompanies the "15 Years To Win A Playoff Game Plan"

Brock
11-14-2007, 09:15 AM
I could think of a bunch of other guys to add to that list...and I don't see anyone with trade value, at least not that the Chiefs will part with.

I doubt you thought Tynes had any trade value.

Zouk
11-14-2007, 09:16 AM
I love people telling me Bell, Wilson, et al don't have trade value coming off an offseason when we traded away Ryan Sims and Lawrence Tynes.

Kris Wilson is a UFA (as is Parker)

RYan Sims' salary was about $1 mill when traded, Kendrell Bell's salary for next year is about $4 mill plus. He will be released.

Ty Law's salary jumps to $6 mill next year. Which basically means his contract was created to end after 2007. He will be released.

FAX
11-14-2007, 09:18 AM
I intend to be patient with him -- for 8 weeks.

If he shows enough, I'm willing to give him the job in 2008.

But if he continues to play as poorly as he did in the preseason, where he was horrific in every imaginable manner, or simply incompetent like he was against the Broncos, that's where I draw the line.

This is troubling, Mr. Direckshun. I consider you to be one of the most football-savvy posters we have, so I hope you'll clarify your opinion on this matter.

Surely, you and I can agree that it takes time for a new NFL quarterback to get his legs. I'm certain we can also agree that the measurement of success for Brodie at this point should be game-by-game improvement in his play rather than QB rating, touchdowns, or even wins and losses. So, I don't understand why you believe he played so "poorly" in preseason. That's very counter-intuitive. "Horrific in every imaginable manner" and "simply incompetent" are strong words to fire out on someone who is, in essence, a rook.

I would think you would recognize Croyle for what he is - a young, inexperienced quarterback.

FAX

Molitoth
11-14-2007, 09:27 AM
Why so many receivers? We have gonzo and Bowe that can't even get the ball enough. We have Sippio sitting out there and we don't know what he can do.

Wasting 2 more picks on WR when we need all the Lineman help we can get is dumb, imo.

Zouk
11-14-2007, 09:27 AM
I think this a very good plan, except for the part about trading a 1st day pick for Derek Anderson (Quinn is untradable salary cap-wise). Croyle is our guy next year. We've been teaching him this offense for 2 years - we can't throw away that investment.

As for 1st day picks next year, I like Sam Baker (OT USC) in the first, Dorien Bryant (WR, KR Purdue) in the second, and a corner in the 3rd.

For free agents I like Jake Scott RG from the Colts, Dan Kreider FB from the Steelers, John Gilmore blocking TE from the Bears, and a mid-priced CB and mid-priced WR.

I think Law and Surtain should both be released, and that Benny Sapp should be re-signed to take 1 starting spot. I can't see anything Surtain can do that Sapp can't (for about $4 mill less).

Brock
11-14-2007, 09:30 AM
I'll bet Derek Anderson costs a first and a third, if they're willing to trade him at all.

RustShack
11-14-2007, 09:31 AM
I think Law will be gone unless he reduces his salary, but Surtain will stick around.

Pushead2
11-14-2007, 09:32 AM
I think Law will be gone unless he reduces his salary, but Surtain will stick around.

Please Cut Law, I hope we sign a big time CB in the off season.

RustShack
11-14-2007, 09:34 AM
Hopefully we don't get an old big time CB this time.

BigCatDaddy
11-14-2007, 09:44 AM
I doubt it will happen, but I would like to see McIntosh moved to RG and have an interior 3 of Waters, Niswanger, and McIntosh next year. Then you can draft/sign a LT and RT next year. I like those 3 inside for the smash mouth style that Herm will want to play with LJ carrying the ball up the gut.

ChiefsCountry
11-14-2007, 09:46 AM
There is a corner out of San Jose State, Dwight Lowery who I think will be a big time player.

RustShack
11-14-2007, 09:49 AM
I can see McIntosh going to RT where I think he plays better, but not RG. I think Niswanger could end up being our RG too, just depends on if we draft another G or C, or pick one up. This should be a very interesting off season.

Sure-Oz
11-14-2007, 09:50 AM
The 4 trade value guys have no value, and will be released anyway

Chiefnj2
11-14-2007, 09:51 AM
I'd likely favor keeping Croyle and continue grooming him barring a major meltdown these 8 games.

1st round BAA, hopefully there will be a LOT with good value.

2nd round. Trade it for an established player. I almost always universally hate KC's "reach" 2nd round draft picks.

3rd - 7th rounds, BAA.

FA: WR, interior OL, FB, 3rd down DE.

RustShack
11-14-2007, 09:54 AM
I don't see Croyle throwing more INT's than what Manning did his rookie year.

FAX
11-14-2007, 09:57 AM
Man, we need offensive linemen. Whatever happened to that guy we had over in the NFLE who was showing promise? Svitek?

FAX

Mr. Laz
11-14-2007, 10:02 AM
The 4 trade value guys have no value, and will be released anyway
which you have said about virtually every Chiefs player from the beginning of time.

Sure-Oz
11-14-2007, 10:06 AM
which you have said about virtually every Chiefs player from the beginning of time.
I don't remember talking about that much, but in most cases it's true. We're lucky we find suckers like the Giants and TB.

Mr. Laz
11-14-2007, 10:10 AM
I don't remember talking about that much, but in most cases it's true. We're lucky we find suckers like the Giants and TB.
suckers born every minute .... hopefully we'll find a couple more next year.

we should always try

Micjones
11-14-2007, 10:10 AM
I intend to be patient with him -- for 8 weeks.

If he shows enough, I'm willing to give him the job in 2008.

But if he continues to play as poorly as he did in the preseason, where he was horrific in every imaginable manner, or simply incompetent like he was against the Broncos, that's where I draw the line.

Exactly.

The next 7 games are a trial run.
If he plays well enough he'll earn a 1-year audition next season.
If not... Sayonara.

Sure-Oz
11-14-2007, 10:16 AM
suckers born every minute .... hopefully we'll find a couple more next year.

we should always try
agreed, i have no problem with that. :evil: I was suprised last year, maybe we'll get some low end pics this year.

Micjones
11-14-2007, 10:26 AM
Niswanger should secure either Guard or Center.
We can slide McIntosh over to Right Tackle if we can find a solid replacement at LT. Otherwise, he stays put and we find a suitable RT to takeover for Turley/Terry.

I think we'll just need to concern ourselves with two positions on the Offensive Line. Tackle and either Guard/Center.

I'd like to see us add another young WR to the mix.
On the chance that Kennison hangs it up... We'll need another talented WR to add into the Receiving Corps. If Webb continues to improve he may be our #2, but that remains to be seen. A three-four year guy with upside could help improve that spot.

I'm prepared to replace both CB's next season.
I expect Brackenridge to take one of those starting spots. I'm hoping, with a capital H, that Barksdale or Patterson secures the other spot. Let these young guys play.

We must find a real FB next year.
We can't continue to use converted players at that position. It's hurt our run game tremendously.

We'll also need another capable runningback to add into the mix.
Depending on what Priest Holmes decides to do and whether or not he's healthy when the season ends.

And lastly we'll need to address the QB situation if Croyle's 7 game trial run doesn't go well.

InChiefsHell
11-14-2007, 10:38 AM
Jeeeez. How was Croyle "horrendous in every way" and "incompetent against the Broncos?" I mean damn people, he's shown more flashes of good than bad in his very limited playing time this season...it's as though you don't think people can improve, especially young guys...

RustShack
11-14-2007, 11:06 AM
No matter how bad Croyle does he will be around next year.

suds79
11-14-2007, 11:14 AM
No matter how bad Croyle does he will be around next year.

True but will it be as the starter?

I'm excited to finally get some answers about Croyle.

Micjones
11-14-2007, 11:16 AM
No matter how bad Croyle does he will be around next year.

He'll definitely be around, but if he doesn't play well...
They'll look for someone else to get the job done.

InChiefsHell
11-14-2007, 12:43 PM
True but will it be as the starter?

I'm excited to finally get some answers about Croyle.
:clap:

Agreed. That's all I want!

Molitoth
11-14-2007, 01:04 PM
He'll definitely be around, but if he doesn't play well...
They'll look for someone else to get the job done.

If Croyle gets all Ryan Leaf on us, I doubt Herm keeps him for long.

InChiefsHell
11-14-2007, 01:06 PM
If Croyle gets all Ryan Leaf on us, I doubt Herm keeps him for long.

That is something that I'm going to go out on a limb and say is not going to happen...no way in hell.

Croyle is better than that.

Sure-Oz
11-14-2007, 01:26 PM
If Croyle gets all Ryan Leaf on us, I doubt Herm keeps him for long.
Croyle's not an immature baby.

RustShack
11-14-2007, 02:04 PM
I just don't think it's possible that he can do bad enough for Herm to give up on him after just this year. If he makes mistakes they will live with it and try to fix it, not find someone else after not even a year. Especially with the mess the offense is already in.

BCD
11-14-2007, 02:11 PM
I don't think he will, and I severely doubt he should.

But I'm willing to give him yet another chance. Put him to the test against Brady Quinn or Derek Anderson, and let's see where we end up.Lets see. You haven't seen Quinn play at the pro level, but you wanna trade for him? We have 7 games to see what Brodie can do. I'd like to wait and see. I LOVE it when people make up their mind about a player BEFORE even seeing them play...
:rolleyes:

BCD
11-14-2007, 02:14 PM
The Browns are NOT giving up Anderson or Quinn for another season. Why should they? Its gonna be '09 or '10 before Cleveland deals either one of them.

RustShack
11-14-2007, 02:16 PM
I've seen Croyle play, he is our QBOTF

KC Tattoo
11-14-2007, 02:16 PM
My recommendation ->New GM

RustShack
11-14-2007, 02:18 PM
My recommendation ->New GM

Bingo. New OC IF Solari doesn't get it figured out. He can now open up the offense a little more with the rocket arm he has under center.

Chiefnj2
11-14-2007, 02:18 PM
The Browns are NOT giving up Anderson or Quinn for another season. Why should they? Its gonna be '09 or '10 before Cleveland deals either one of them.

Anderson is an RFA. He'll go somewhere for draft picks.

People need to realize that Cleveland's offense may have come to life in large part because of the OL and someone like Joe Thomas who some say hasn't given up a sack all year.

Build a decent line and Croyle will be okay.

BCD
11-14-2007, 02:18 PM
I intend to be patient with him -- for 8 weeks.

If he shows enough, I'm willing to give him the job in 2008.

But if he continues to play as poorly as he did in the preseason, where he was horrific in every imaginable manner, or simply incompetent like he was against the Broncos, that's where I draw the line.Shit like this makes you sound as retarded as Goat. Jeez, give the kid a shot.
:shake:

RustShack
11-14-2007, 02:20 PM
Anderson is an RFA. He'll go somewhere for draft picks.

People need to realize that Cleveland's offense may have come to life in large part because of the OL and someone like Joe Thomas who some say hasn't given up a sack all year.

Build a decent line and Croyle will be okay.

He wont go anywhere, no team will give up their 1st and 3rd round picks for Anderson.

RustShack
11-14-2007, 02:22 PM
I'm not even going to judge Croyle from this year, even though I THINK he will still do better than Huard. Hopefully our Oline will be a huge upgrade from what it is this year, and we can really see what he has, when he and his #1 target Bowe have some real experience under their belts.

Micjones
11-14-2007, 02:24 PM
Croyle will be starting regular season games.
To put off the evaluation process until next season does no one any good.

The next 7 games is his audition to retain the job going into next season. That's plenty of time to show us all if he deserves more evaluation time.

RustShack
11-14-2007, 02:28 PM
I guarantee he is our QB next year, and for years to come.

BCD
11-14-2007, 02:29 PM
Anderson is an RFA. He'll go somewhere for draft picks.

People need to realize that Cleveland's offense may have come to life in large part because of the OL and someone like Joe Thomas who some say hasn't given up a sack all year.

Build a decent line and Croyle will be okay.He has weapons, too. Anderson is a good QB, he certainly is NOT great.

BCD
11-14-2007, 02:31 PM
Croyle will be starting regular season games.
To put off the evaluation process until next season does no one any good.

The next 7 games is his audition to retain the job going into next season. That's plenty of time to show us all if he deserves more evaluation time.No, the rest of this season is just part of it. Even if he tanks this season, he will/should get another shot next season. Your and idiot.

Sure-Oz
11-14-2007, 02:31 PM
No, the rest of this season is just part of it. Even if he tanks this season, he will/should get another shot next season. Your and idiot.
Agreed, he should get more than 7 starts, and should be our opening day starter next year, easily. Get him some OL help as well!

RustShack
11-14-2007, 02:33 PM
Sometimes you have to DEVELOP a QB. They don't just rise to Manning status right off the bat. It even took MANNING years to get good and reach Manning status. Go back and look at how all the great QB's did their first couple years, Croyle will be our starter next year.

BCD
11-14-2007, 02:34 PM
You'd have to be completely void of football knowledge to believe 7 games is enough time to evaluate a QB.

RustShack
11-14-2007, 02:43 PM
Especially when you have a poor line, and your #1 receiver is a rookie. Your RB hasn't played in two years, and your #2 receiver is old and on the decline. I don't think 7 games is nearly enough time, ESPECIALLY in the situation Croyle is in. Arguably the worst offense in the NFL right now.

Micjones
11-14-2007, 02:56 PM
You'd have to be completely void of football knowledge to believe 7 games is enough time to evaluate a QB.

No you wouldn't.

People were on their way to calling Larry Johnson the best back this franchise had ever seen after his first 7 starts.

That's plenty of time to determine if he should be given more time.
You act as though he hadn't played in pre-season games prior to this opportunity presenting itself.

He's a Third Round pick.
We simply aren't obligated to handle him the way the Browns will deal with Brady Quinn.

Sure-Oz
11-14-2007, 02:57 PM
No you wouldn't.

People were on their way to calling Larry Johnson the best back this franchise had ever seen after his first 7 starts.

That's plenty of time to determine if he should be given more time.
You act as though he hadn't played in pre-season games prior to this opportunity presenting itself.

He's a Third Round pick.
We simply aren't obligated to handle him the way the Browns will deal with Brady Quinn.
It also helps that Anderson is playing lights out and winning.

Chiefnj2
11-14-2007, 02:58 PM
It also helps that Anderson is playing lights out and winning.

And Anderson is playing lights out because Cleveland revamped their OL this offseason.

Micjones
11-14-2007, 03:02 PM
Especially when you have a poor line, and your #1 receiver is a rookie.

That Rookie WR certainly hasn't played like one.
He's 40 yards shy of the leading pass-catcher on the team and has been the best Rookie at his position in the NFL.

Gonzalez is still a Top 3 TE.

Your RB hasn't played in two years, and your #2 receiver is old and on the decline. I don't think 7 games is nearly enough time, ESPECIALLY in the situation Croyle is in. Arguably the worst offense in the NFL right now.

Priest in his first game showed us enough to believe he can be effective.

If we can rail on Huard given the same set of circumstances...
Don't give me this crap about how we can't start evaluating Croyle now.

You guys are being disingenuous.
If Croyle comes out and throws 11 TD's over the next 7 games no one will have any problem naming him our QBOTF.

So... If he lays an egg, again, we can certainly prepare ourselves to go in a different direction.

I just want a clear sign that he needs more evaluation time.
Efficiency... Productivity... Good-decision making...
That's all I need. I don't need to see 11 TD's.

RustShack
11-14-2007, 03:03 PM
No you wouldn't.

People were on their way to calling Larry Johnson the best back this franchise had ever seen after his first 7 starts.

QB and RB are waaay different buddy. And even then, Johnson had a line, Croyle doesn't.

Micjones
11-14-2007, 03:08 PM
QB and RB are waaay different buddy. And even then, Johnson had a line, Croyle doesn't.

Indeed. QB and RB are completely different positions and should be handled as such.

Either way...
Croyle WAS A THIRD ROUND PICK.

We don't owe him a 2-year commitment.
That's ridiculous.

Direckshun
11-14-2007, 03:09 PM
I think people need to keep in mind that I'm not expecting Croyle to perform immediately like a seasoned pro. I understand he needs time to develop.

I also understand that he wasn't terribly accurate, made boneheaded decisions (not rookie decisions, straight-up boneheaded decisions), held the ball too long, second guessed himself, and showed no mobility during the preseason. He was a physical and mental failure. Not to mention the intangibles, either: when it came down to crunch time and earn the job, he muffed horrendously.

Against Denver, he didn't do anything that great. He was solid, and his average play exposed Huard once again as the worst starting QB in the NFL.

So I'm not expecting Croyle to turn it all around immediately and start playing lights out. I expect Croyle to show me something. Come through in the clutch, make an amazing pass, spread the ball around -- show me some positives and convince me that getting a new #1 isn't the Chiefs' first priority this offseason.

As of now, I haven't seen enough to do that.

Micjones
11-14-2007, 03:13 PM
I think people need to keep in mind that I'm not expecting Croyle to perform immediately like a seasoned pro. I understand he needs time to develop.

I also understand that he wasn't terribly accurate, made boneheaded decisions (not rookie decisions, straight-up boneheaded decisions), held the ball too long, second guessed himself, and showed no mobility during the preseason. He was a physical and mental failure. Not to mention the intangibles, either: when it came down to crunch time and earn the job, he muffed horrendously.

Against Denver, he didn't do anything that great. He was solid, and his average play exposed Huard once again as the worst starting QB in the NFL.

So I'm not expecting Croyle to turn it all around immediately and start playing lights out. I expect Croyle to show me something. Come through in the clutch, make an amazing pass, spread the ball around -- show me some positives and convince me that getting a new #1 isn't the Chiefs' first priority this offseason.

As of now, I haven't seen enough to do that.

My sentiments exactly.
This business about "turning the keys over" is nonsense.

People keep forgetting that we really don't have the support system necessary for developing a young QB. A defensive-minded HC, a second-year OC who has been terribly inconsistent and a QB's Coach who has only seen success in NFL Europe?

Here's hoping that Croyle can succeed despite all of that.
He certainly has the physical skills to do so.
Unfortunately, that's not where the job will be won and lost.
It's how he'll fare mentally that matters.

If he can become a QB who makes good decisions...
We'll have one hell of a signal caller.

7 games is more than enough time to show us he needs more time.
MORE THAN ENOUGH.

He has enough offensive weapons that he can show us something.

TEX
11-14-2007, 04:13 PM
My sentiments exactly.
This business about "turning the keys over" is nonsense.

People keep forgetting that we really don't have the support system necessary for developing a young QB. A defensive-minded HC, a second-year OC who has been terribly inconsistent and a QB's Coach who has only seen success in NFL Europe?

That's my biggest concern. Next is the twisted pile of $HIT the Chiefs call an O-line. If he looks slightly good, he's got a shot when you consider what he has going against him.

TEX
11-14-2007, 04:15 PM
I think people need to keep in mind that I'm not expecting Croyle to perform immediately like a seasoned pro. I understand he needs time to develop.

I also understand that he wasn't terribly accurate, made boneheaded decisions (not rookie decisions, straight-up boneheaded decisions), held the ball too long, second guessed himself, and showed no mobility during the preseason. He was a physical and mental failure. Not to mention the intangibles, either: when it came down to crunch time and earn the job, he muffed horrendously.

Against Denver, he didn't do anything that great. He was solid, and his average play exposed Huard once again as the worst starting QB in the NFL.

So I'm not expecting Croyle to turn it all around immediately and start playing lights out. I expect Croyle to show me something. Come through in the clutch, make an amazing pass, spread the ball around -- show me some positives and convince me that getting a new #1 isn't the Chiefs' first priority this offseason.

As of now, I haven't seen enough to do that.

Well said! :clap:

TEX
11-14-2007, 04:19 PM
And Anderson is playing lights out because Cleveland revamped their OL this offseason.

You're exactly right. That's where it all starts and ends.

KC Tattoo
11-14-2007, 04:35 PM
I think people need to keep in mind that I'm not expecting Croyle to perform immediately like a seasoned pro. I understand he needs time to develop.

I also understand that he wasn't terribly accurate, made boneheaded decisions (not rookie decisions, straight-up boneheaded decisions), held the ball too long, second guessed himself, and showed no mobility during the preseason. He was a physical and mental failure. Not to mention the intangibles, either: when it came down to crunch time and earn the job, he muffed horrendously.

Against Denver, he didn't do anything that great. He was solid, and his average play exposed Huard once again as the worst starting QB in the NFL.

So I'm not expecting Croyle to turn it all around immediately and start playing lights out. I expect Croyle to show me something. Come through in the clutch, make an amazing pass, spread the ball around -- show me some positives and convince me that getting a new #1 isn't the Chiefs' first priority this offseason.

As of now, I haven't seen enough to do that.

All I can say is that Will Sviteck didn't help Brodie to be successfull in preseason. Two seconds to get rid of the ball that is how much time he had. Will Smith against a 3rd string OT. Look who Brodie had to work with, C. Hannon scored a td, C. Hannon isn't evon on our team, didn't make the team. I think Brodie got the shaft in preseason and it hurt his confidense. Huard did not have to prove himself against the Saints. Huard would have been destroyed by Will Smith in preseason with Sviteck at LT. I remember Drew Breez had about 5 seconds to throw the ball and he picked our defense apart. Yes I agree that Croyle didn't get to "win" the starting job. I also think that he deserved to be the starter after his performance in Da Bears game and again the Jags game. I think Croyle looked good against the Jack Ass Denver team. He sure looked better than Huard.

Micjones
11-14-2007, 05:04 PM
All I can say is that Will Sviteck didn't help Brodie to be successfull in preseason. Two seconds to get rid of the ball that is how much time he had. Will Smith against a 3rd string OT. Look who Brodie had to work with, C. Hannon scored a td, C. Hannon isn't evon on our team, didn't make the team. I think Brodie got the shaft in preseason and it hurt his confidense. Huard did not have to prove himself against the Saints. Huard would have been destroyed by Will Smith in preseason with Sviteck at LT. I remember Drew Breez had about 5 seconds to throw the ball and he picked our defense apart. Yes I agree that Croyle didn't get to "win" the starting job. I also think that he deserved to be the starter after his performance in Da Bears game and again the Jags game. I think Croyle looked good against the Jack Ass Denver team. He sure looked better than Huard.

"Better than Huard" should not be our criteria for turning the keys over to Croyle.

BCD
11-14-2007, 05:07 PM
"Better than Huard" should not be our criteria for turning the keys over to Croyle.You're missing the point in that statement. He is better than Huard NOW. Brodie has upside. How much will be determined.

Micjones
11-14-2007, 05:11 PM
I'm not sure how you can say that BCD.
He's more talented, but he hasn't proven anything at all in the regular season.

Play well for 4 quarters then we'll talk...
I've seen Damon do that.

I've seen him make big plays. Time and again.

Huard hasn't played well recently, but to say that Croyle's the better player when he's only seen spot duty is a bit premature for me.

KC Tattoo
11-14-2007, 06:30 PM
I'm not sure how you can say that BCD.
He's more talented, but he hasn't proven anything at all in the regular season.

Play well for 4 quarters then we'll talk...
I've seen Damon do that.

I've seen him make big plays. Time and again.

Huard hasn't played well recently, but to say that Croyle's the better player when he's only seen spot duty is a bit premature for me.

Croyle still has to learn and the best way for him to learn is to play. All he has to do is get better as the season go's. A player has to get better after each game, after each season. I expect young players especially young QBs to make bone head mistakes, that is part of the deal.
Dale Carter his first year as a rooky made bone head mistakes but he was fun to watch. Veteran players like Huard or Ty Law shouln't be making bone head mistakes at this time in they're careers when we expect so much out of them. I'd say Huard and Ty Law have regressed from last year and are on the down slide of they're careers. I think Ty Law still has some left in him but I don't expect him back next year.

Brock
11-14-2007, 06:31 PM
Well, if Croyle turns out to be NOT any better than Huard, at least the Chiefs will know they're both stiffs.

scott free
11-15-2007, 05:32 PM
Barring a complete meltdown, Brodie Croyle will start for us in 08...& he simply strikes me as being too strong minded to meltdown.

I still havent figured out where all of the MacIntosh to RT is coming from...while he's better than average in pass pro, i've seen nothing to indicate that he's a solid run blocker...he definitely strikes me as more of a finesse guy.

Micjones
11-15-2007, 05:38 PM
No, the rest of this season is just part of it. Even if he tanks this season, he will/should get another shot next season. Your and idiot.

And he deserves a 23 game evaluation period, why?
By virtue of having been drafted?

Don't throw words like "idiot" around.
At least not if you're going to continue to use your own ideology to come by posts in this forum.

He was a Third Round draftpick.
I've said that a half-dozen times now.
One who, incidentally, wasn't exactly a world beater in college.

If the kid came out and threw for 1,500 yards and 10 TD's over the next 7 games there'd be no argument that 7 games is enough of a litmus test to determine if more time is necessary OR if he should retain the job going into next season.

BCD
11-15-2007, 05:39 PM
I am PRAYING Brodie show us something. I do not want to see Pennington anywhere near Arrowhead.

Micjones
11-15-2007, 05:42 PM
Croyle still has to learn and the best way for him to learn is to play.

I tend to agree, but opportunity alone won't make a good Quarterback out of him. He'll have to have the requisite skills already. Not his arm either...It's his decision-making ability that matters.

All he has to do is get better as the season go's.

He'll have to show me more than just improvement to get the keys to my franchise. Play well during this 7-game stretch and it's yours Brodie.

Remember...
Here's a kid that couldn't lock the job up when virtually everyone in this organization wanted him to win it. He was given every opportunity and he laid an egg... Completely. I'm sorry, but I'm just not as optimistic.

Micjones
11-15-2007, 05:43 PM
Barring a complete meltdown, Brodie Croyle will start for us in 08...& he simply strikes me as being too strong minded to meltdown.

I'm not sure his pre-season performance can be categorized as such, but with the job all but gift-wrapped for him he couldn't secure it. That doesn't say much for his poise.

BCD
11-15-2007, 05:45 PM
And he deserves a 23 game evaluation period, why?
By virtue of having been drafted?

Don't throw words like "idiot" around.
At least not if you're going to continue to use your own ideology to come by posts in this forum.

He was a Third Round draftpick.
I've said that a half-dozen times now.
One who, incidentally, wasn't exactly a world beater in college.

If the kid came out and threw for 1,500 yards and 10 TD's over the next 7 games there'd be no argument that 7 games is enough of a litmus test to determine if more time is necessary OR if he should retain the job going into next season.Lets see. The arguement earlier in the season was that he is not ready. Mainly due to the fact that our line suck. So, we get to watch him behind a lousy line for 7 games. If he stinks, he's done? That's stupid. If we improve the line next season, then he should get the benefit of playing/developing behind something better than we have now. Not to mention, handing off to Larry ****ing Johnson.

scott free
11-15-2007, 05:47 PM
[QUOTE=scott free]Barring a complete meltdown, Brodie Croyle will start for us in 08...& he simply strikes me as being too strong minded to meltdown.[?quote]

I'm not sure his pre-season performance can be categorized as such, but with the job all but gift-wrapped for him he couldn't secure it. That doesn't say much for his poise.

The ENTIRE team looked like shit this offseason & Brodie did not have a full complement of starters either. Thats not to take away from the mistakes he made, but basing your opinion of him on the preseason isnt a fair assessment.

Micjones
11-15-2007, 05:48 PM
Lets see. The arguement earlier in the season was that he is not ready. Mainly due to the fact that our line suck.

I want you to re-read that...slowly.

So, we get to watch him behind a lousy line for 7 games. If he stinks, he's done? That's stupid. If we improve the line next season, then he should get the benefit of playing/developing behind something better than we have now. Not to mention, handing off to Larry ****ing Johnson.

The lousy line...with no run game of which to speak...has still fielded the 18th best passing game in the NFL.

We'll have two 1,000 yard pass catchers barring injury.
Stop lining up excuses for him to fall back on.

Micjones
11-15-2007, 05:50 PM
The ENTIRE team looked like shit this offseason & Brodie did not have a full complement of starters either. Thats not to take away from the mistakes he made, but basing your opinion of him on the preseason isnt a fair assessment.

Sure it is.
I mean... That is the period set aside for evaluating players, no?

I'm not against Croyle taking over the reigns at QB.
I called for it.

I just don't think we have to roll the red carpet out for the kid.
We've done that once already. Didn't pay off... At least not to this point.

My point is simply...
"Show us something in seven...Keep the job."

I know this team forces us to have lower standards, but sheesh...

BCD
11-15-2007, 05:52 PM
I want you to re-read that...slowly.



The lousy line...with no run game of which to speak...has still fielded the 18th best passing game in the NFL.

We'll have two 1,000 yard pass catchers barring injury.
Stop lining up excuses for him to fall back on.Huard is gone. You can stop pimping him. Oh, and 18th sucks.